Will abortion derail ObamaCare?

posted at 12:15 pm on December 5, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Politico’s Carrie Budoff Brown reports that one particular issue could cause a spontaneous abortion of the ObamaCare bill in the Senate, and it’s not its overwhelming slate of new taxes.  Ben Nelson (D-NE) says he has “drawn a line in the sand” over public funding of abortions and abortion coverage, and will filibuster any bill that does not contain the same kind of language that Bart Stupak (D-MI) added to the House version of the bill.  Other liberal Democrats say they will not support a bill that has that kind of restrictive language in it.  Instead of coming closer on compromise, the abortion issue threatens to derail the entire bill:

In the past week, abortion has flared up as a major impediment to passage of a health care reform bill in the Senate, taking a similar path as it did during the House debate — from obscurity to obstacle in a matter of days.

After months of trying to craft a 60-vote coalition based on the finer points of health care policy, Senate Democrats are growing increasingly worried that abortion will upend what had become a clear path to approving the overhaul bill.

Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) sparked a fresh round of concern this week when he repeatedly and definitively vowed to filibuster the health care legislation unless it included abortion restrictions as tough as the so-called Stupak amendment in the House bill.

“I don’t ordinarily draw a line in the sand, but I have drawn a line in the sand,” Nelson said Friday.

Nelson certainly has a long history of agitating his party by withholding his vote until he wrings out every last concession from Senate leaders. But on the uncompromising issue of abortion, Democrats fear he may really be serious this time.

Nelson knows that Nebraskans aren’t terribly enthusiastic for ObamaCare anyway, but they’ll throw him out of office if he makes them pay for abortions.  That makes him as serious as, well, a heart attack — just as Stupak was serious about at least getting the vote.  He may not be the only one in his caucus looking at the issue through electoral-colored glasses, either.  Politico named Blanche Lincoln the most endangered Senate Democrat in the next cycle, and she will need some way to reconnect to conservative Arkansans between now and next November.

Of course, Harry Reid is vying for that title, too, and a failure to get a bill out of the Senate will make him look impotent, which isn’t exactly the antidote to his 38% job approval rating in Nevada.  But it’s a numbers game, and Reid doesn’t have them.  Without a Stupak-like amendment that satisfies Nelson and perhaps Lincoln, he can’t get to 60.  With a public option, he loses Lieberman, and perhaps Lincoln and Nelson again, and can’t get to 60.  If he adds Stupak language to the bill, he’ll lose his progressives, and without a public option, he won’t even get to 50 votes.

There may be ways out of this thicket, but they’re becoming less and less likely to work.


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Ironic that abortion might abort ObamaCare.

Mr. Joe on December 5, 2009 at 12:18 PM

One can only hope.

RarestRX on December 5, 2009 at 12:19 PM

If nothing else, this demonstrates that there is no way one-size-fits-all is suitable health care.

njcommuter on December 5, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Fox just announced the President will be making a rare visit to the Capital/Senate meeting tomorrow afternoon.

Who’s he bribing this time?

Knucklehead on December 5, 2009 at 12:20 PM

no, abortion won’t derail Obamacare. you know why? because there is no congressman who can stick to his/her guns about anything–not even something that is presumably so impt.

the congressman will be bought off & then that same congressman will lie to the American people when abortion coverage is snuck in the back door of the bill on an amdmt or in sep. legislation.

they must all be ousted. and not just for this issue.

kelley in virginia on December 5, 2009 at 12:21 PM

Who’s he bribing this time?
Knucklehead on December 5, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Everyone he can.

kingsjester on December 5, 2009 at 12:21 PM

This has the feel of a NASCAR crew chief when it seems the last 50 laps are going to go green, furiously punching the calculator desperately trying to find a couple more laps of fuel to get to the finish.

Here’s hoping Reid runs out of gas well before the finish.

JamesLee on December 5, 2009 at 12:22 PM

the funding of abortions will not be in this bill. so Sen. Nelson can happily vote for it,all the while bragging to his constituents that he defeated the evil abortion funding bill. then the funding will go into another bill.

i’m repeating myself.

kelley in virginia on December 5, 2009 at 12:23 PM

That’s right, Kelley. It doesn’t matter what is or isn’t in this monstrosity, it must not pass. Once that door is cracked open, and they get their foot inside, they’ll just keep adding and pushing and revamping until the whole house collapses.

JamesLee on December 5, 2009 at 12:25 PM

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Americans United For Life: Senate Passes the Pro-Abortion Mikulski Amendment Under the Guise of ‘Preventive Care’
WASHINGTON, Dec. 3 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ — Today the Senate accepted the Mikulski (D-Md.) amendment to the Senate health care bill by a vote of 61-39. The amendment does not explicitly require abortion coverage, but it also fails to explicitly exclude it. The Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA) could categorize abortion as “preventive care,” and would therefore recommend coverage for abortion by all private plans. The recommendation would force private plans to offer abortion coverage, furthering the abortion lobby’s agenda of mainstreaming abortion as health care.

Americans United for Life President and CEO Dr. Charmaine Yoest stated, “Abortion is not ‘preventive care.’ In this amendment, Sen. Mikulski apparently intends to expand abortion services under the guise of mandated preventive care. This deceptive tactic underscores the need for an amendment that explicitly prohibits the government from mandating that private insurance companies cover abortion under the guise of ‘preventive care.’”

Senator Murkowski’s amendment would have ensured that abortion is not classified by the government as “preventive care” or as a “preventive service.” The Murkowski proposal was defeated 41 to 59.

Dr. Yoest added, “The Senate failed the first test to stop mandatory abortion coverage by voting against the Murkowski proposal. Senator Murkowski’s amendment would have prevented abortion from being categorized as ‘preventive care.’ It is critical that such language be added to the Senate health care reform bill. Otherwise, for the first time in history, the federal government could mandate that private insurance companies cover abortion.”

It is up to the HHS Secretary to define “preventative care.” When Sen. Thune asked Mikulski if her amendment would allow abortion to be included, she refused to commit one way or the other.

The Milkulski amendment was aimed at restoring funding for mammograms, so it was a tricky one to oppose when it also had vague pre-abortion language in it.

Wethal on December 5, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Nelson will cave given any type of fig leaf. It’s his specialty. He’s just posturing, as usual.

a capella on December 5, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Sorry. Copied too much.

Wethal on December 5, 2009 at 12:27 PM

No

Mark1971 on December 5, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Rick: Senator Obama, at what point does a healthcare bill get human rights.

Barry: …uh, ah, ummmm…Well, um…that is…ah..above my paygrade.

Blarg the Destroyer on December 5, 2009 at 12:27 PM

kelley in virginia on December 5, 2009 at 12:23 PM

100% right.

And even if anti-abortion language is inserted in (and sticks to) the bill, it will still pass and we’ll be saddled with a disaster of unprecedented magnitude.

Talk about winning a battle and losing the war!

The “abortion issue” is a smokescreen. Congress does not give a damn. They want the power and riches Osama Obamacare will bring them.

MrScribbler on December 5, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Unfettered access to abortion, the one principal liberals have unwavering support for. Quite a legacy.

echosyst on December 5, 2009 at 12:27 PM

But But But, didn’t Debbie Wasserman Schultz promise the Stupek amendment would be stripped out?

I mean, she promised us/

Knucklehead on December 5, 2009 at 12:27 PM

kelley in virginia on December 5, 2009 at 12:23 PM

He has made an art of rubbing out lines in the sand when the heat is off.

a capella on December 5, 2009 at 12:29 PM

Blanche Lincoln and Mary Landrieu voted for something that polls show about 3/4s of their constituents are against. I’m sick of “lines in the sand” from people like them and Nelson and Liebermann, because it’s BS. I think I saw something yesterday that there was a panic post on dailyKos about what their internal polling showed re/ a bloodbath in 2010.

Marcus on December 5, 2009 at 12:30 PM

I don’t care what kills it, as long as something does.

AZCoyote on December 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM

I think the Dems threatening not to vote for it if the restrictions are put in are the ones who will back down.

They already have once. They are just huffing and puffing for their feminist voters.

AnninCA on December 5, 2009 at 12:33 PM

until he wrings out every last concession from Senate leaders

ala Landrieu?

Robert17 on December 5, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Fox just announced the President will be making a rare visit to the Capital/Senate meeting tomorrow afternoon.

Who’s he bribing this time?

Knucklehead on December 5, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Bribing them with what? They’re buying off people with billions we don’t have.

BTW, I heard that Obamacare will cost states a fortune, including an additional $500 billion for Louisiana. Which renders that $300 billion Landrieu got as a payoff meaningless.

Doughboy on December 5, 2009 at 12:33 PM

squishy moderate temporarily gets a spine… meh!

painfulTruthDisciple on December 5, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Agree.

They’ll find some way of “cutting” public abortion funding from the bill as we know it and that’ll give political cover for these arse-clowns to vote for it and then crow about how “we fixed healthcare” blah, blah, blah…

…..oh, but in Conference or some sort of supplemental spending bill it’ll be right back in buried under tons of text under a seemingly harmless clause somewhere.

Four months ago I would have never dreamed this thing would go anywhere near this far due to public opinion at the time and which has only gotten worse. But, they’ve made it clear they don’t care and are going to do whatever the Hell the like and then try to run from/lie/equivocate/misdirect/outspend their opponents in November…..

JoeinTX on December 5, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Why hasn’t this pungent pile of crap — otherwise known as ObamaCare — been flushed down the toilet already? It’s more than a bad bill, it’s a bad bad bill.

All that’s taking place in the Senate now are attempts to make this pile if crap smell better. “I offer for consideration the Febreeze Amendment”. Debate, vote it in, and then smell test it. Still smells like crap? “I offer for consideration the lemony-fresh ammonia amendment”. Blah, blah, blah…
“I offer for consideration…”

Hey, you boneheads in the Senate: the bill is crap, it’ll always smell like crap, there’s nothing you can do — short of flushing it down the can — to make it smell or look like anything but crap.

And your and your counterparts in the House spent the better part of a year wallowing in this crap while the economy bleeds jobs like a stuck hog. You are so fired come the next election in which you run!

In the meantime, enjoy the sight, smell, taste and feel of your…

ya2daup on December 5, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Abortion paid for out of government funds is pretty much settled, in reality. That is the compromise. I think they are all just flapping their lips for interviews to look good back home.

The fact is that the country is split on this issue. And we’ve debated it for most of my adult life to the point that I can’t stand to discuss it at all anymore. It seems quite obvious that no government funding for abortions is the only compromise that will work.

The rest is just political BS.

AnninCA on December 5, 2009 at 12:37 PM

An unviable mass of tissue bringing down the health care bill, how sweet the sound.

fourdeucer on December 5, 2009 at 12:37 PM

President Obama will go to Capitol Hill tomorrow afternoon to attend a 2:00 Senate Democratic caucus meeting Majority Leader Harry Reid has called during a rare Sunday session, a White House official has confirmed.

Pushing for reconciliation option? Leaning on wavering Dems?

Wethal on December 5, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Will Abortion Derail Obamacare YES.

Dr Evil on December 5, 2009 at 12:38 PM

The “abortion issue” is a smokescreen. Congress does not give a damn. They want the power and riches Osama Obamacare will bring them.MrScribbler on December 5, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Yes, the progressives will punt on the abortion issue in order to take over the industry. Obama will write them an IOU and they’ll look to add it in later.

dedalus on December 5, 2009 at 12:38 PM

ya2daup on December 5, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Note to self: composing long posts from the iPhone too often leads to butchered grammar…

ya2daup on December 5, 2009 at 12:40 PM

I don’t care what does it but, this bill needs to jump the tracks.

boomer on December 5, 2009 at 12:42 PM

JamesLee on December 5, 2009 at 12:22 PM

I`d settle for a 1/2 lap shy, son long as he crosses the line last

NY Conservative on December 5, 2009 at 12:43 PM

How ironic. If this continues, the Senate’s pro-abortion zealots might actually give me reason to be thankful.

OhioCoastie on December 5, 2009 at 12:43 PM

This has the feel of a NASCAR crew chief when it seems the last 50 laps are going to go green, furiously punching the calculator desperately trying to find a couple more laps of fuel to get to the finish.

Here’s hoping Reid runs out of gas well before the finish.

JamesLee on December 5, 2009 at 12:22 PM

I’m bettin’ on at least two more cautions and a G/W/C finish.

thomasaur on December 5, 2009 at 12:45 PM

Unfettered access to abortion, the one principal liberals have unwavering support for. Quite a legacy.
echosyst on December 5, 2009 at 12:27 PM

But you have to hand it to them that with this bill they’re an equal opportunity Party of Death because they’re willing to stick it to the elderly, too.

ya2daup on December 5, 2009 at 12:45 PM

On Saturday, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), the staunchest public option supporter, indicated that he will not concede anything.

He said a morning meeting with Senate leadership was about telling them “that there have been a number of compromises already on the public option and enough is enough. We’ve compromised enough.”

“My own view is we need to strengthen the public option, not weaken it from where we are now,” he said, adding that he wasn’t sure whether there would be another meeting.

Sanders was seen huddling with Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), another public option supporter, outside the conference room this morning, discussing their talking points before walking into the meeting.

Brown has urged Obama to get more involved in the negotiations, hoping that a personal pitch from the president will move reluctant members of the caucus.

Others senators at the meeting included Chuck Schumer (NY), Mary Landrieu (La.), Thomas Carper (De.), Ben Nelson (Neb.), Jay Rockefeller (WV), Tom Harkin (IA), Mark Pryor (Ark.), Sherrod Brown (Oh.), and Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).

Reid is holding Saturday and Sunday afternoon sessions this weekend.

The list of those huddling is interesting.

Wethal on December 5, 2009 at 12:45 PM

no matter where you stand on the abortion issue, it is a hotly debated issue that Congress should just leave alone. and some states/districts are polling very much against including abortion in this bill.

however, they don’t care. Perriello (5th CD VA) voted for it in the House after he voted for the Stupak amndmt. like he didn’t know they would put it back in. he went to yale & is therefore smarter than the rest of us.

kelley in virginia on December 5, 2009 at 12:45 PM

If nothing else, this demonstrates that there is no way one-size-fits-all is suitable health care.

njcommuter on December 5, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Of course not. There’s no suitable one size fits all anything, especially when it’s coerced. That’s why they make chocolate and vanilla.

…Neither you nor the U.S. Congress has the complete knowledge to know exactly what’s best for you. The difference is that when individuals make their own trade-offs, say between purchasing health insurance or investing in a business, they make wiser decisions because it is they who personally bear the costs and benefits of those decisions. You say, “Hold it, Williams, we’ve got you now! What if that person gets really sick and doesn’t have health insurance. Society suffers the burden of taking care of him.” To the extent that is a problem, it is not a problem of liberty; it’s a problem of congressionally mandated socialism. Let’s look at it.

It is not society that bears the burden; it is some flesh and blood American worker who finds his earnings taken by Congress to finance the health needs of another person. There is absolutely no moral case, much less constitutional case, for Congress forcibly using one American to serve the purposes of another American, a practice that differs only in degree from slavery, which we all should find morally offensive. – The Pretense of Knowledge – by Walter Williams 12/4/09

RadClown on December 5, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Lieberman’s a prostitute and he will do anything, including voting for a public option, to keep his chairmanship. If Reid threatens to take those perks away (and he will) Liebermman will roll over in a second.

Quit viewing Lieberman as a potential ally in defeating this bill; he isn’t

E9RET on December 5, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Who’s he bribing this time?
Knucklehead on December 5, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Or strong-arming. You know–the Chicago way!

Liam on December 5, 2009 at 12:46 PM

BTW, I heard that Obamacare will cost states a fortune, including an additional $500 billion for Louisiana. Which renders that $300 billion Landrieu got as a payoff meaningless.

Doughboy on December 5, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Oh, yeah, that’s the other elephant sitting in the living room. The donks will be shifting a large portion of costs to states to disguise the federal tax mandates and avoid blame.

a capella on December 5, 2009 at 12:47 PM

We Nebraskans know that Ben Nelson is a lost cause. He will be one of the 60 Democrat Senators to end the debate and then will vote no with the Republicans to cover his bu** on the final vote.

I called, e-mailed, picketed, collected petitions, and faxed letters to his office…he had better enjoy his final years as a Senator, because he’s gone in 2012.

yoda on December 5, 2009 at 12:48 PM

BTW, I heard that Obamacare will cost states a fortune, including an additional $500 billion for Louisiana. Which renders that $300 billion Landrieu got as a payoff meaningless.

Doughboy on December 5, 2009 at 12:33 PM

I think the Senate GOP plans to offer an amendment stripping the LA provision out, just to make the Dems publicly vote on it.

Wethal on December 5, 2009 at 12:50 PM

I think there are a lot of “moderate” Democrats that would like something to kill Obamacare before it kills them politically. The Leftists in the socialist Democrat party are literally on the verge of wiping out the Democrat party.

DerKrieger on December 5, 2009 at 12:50 PM

It’s difficult, nay virtually impossible, but should this Obamin-ation become law then the Conservatives/Republicans and responsible Congress critters (yeah, right) must REPEAL this. The party of “NO” isn’t such a bad moniker after all – especially when you JUST SAY NO TO SOCIALISM.

Ain’t gonna happen, but it must be tried nonetheless. Hell, they repealed Prohibition, didn’t they?

J.J. Sefton on December 5, 2009 at 12:51 PM

Oh, yeah, that’s the other elephant sitting in the living room. The donks will be shifting a large portion of costs to states to disguise the federal tax mandates and avoid blame.

a capella on December 5, 2009 at 12:47 PM

Yeah, apparently our share of the tab down here in Texas will be $2.7 billion. You think we’re gonna participate in Obamacare with a price tag like that? And that’s not factoring the federal cost we’ll have to endure.

Doughboy on December 5, 2009 at 12:53 PM

How Ironic….. the freedoms of Americans to be left alone from their Government might be delivered on the backs of the aborted children those same Americans turned their backs on.

donabernathy on December 5, 2009 at 12:55 PM

J.J. Sefton on December 5, 2009 at 12:51 PM

If it passes we need to fight at the state level enforce the 10th Amendment. We need a Constitutional showdown anyway. Time to put the federal government back in its proper place. If not now, when? If not us, who?

DerKrieger on December 5, 2009 at 12:55 PM

On nullification.

DerKrieger on December 5, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Hopefully something will, since the unprincipled, uninspired mopes in the GOP are doing nothing but providing the Dems cover with their idiotic amendment stragergy.

Rae on December 5, 2009 at 12:59 PM

I live in Omaha. I have, for some time, supposed Ben Nelson won’t run again. They way he votes, one has to believe he realizes he cannot be reelected in any case.

He will go the way of Chuck Hagel.

rogersnowden on December 5, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Oh no!

larvcom on December 5, 2009 at 1:06 PM

kelley in virginia on December 5, 2009 at 12:45 PM

I haven’t heard a damn thing from Warner or Webb. You’d think they’d be smarter than voting lockstep with Obama after watching what happened with McDonnell.

I’d figure Warner’s name at least would be on every list of wavering Senators. It’s sad that they’ve both crawled into their caves and became a rubber stamp like VA is deep blue.

uknowmorethanme on December 5, 2009 at 1:24 PM

The abortion issue is simply for the masses, in my opinion. They aren’t really talking about the other, far more pressing problems, with the Senate bill.

Trigger option? What in the world is that? How would it work? Why are they complicating this?

People would go for a simple public option, sort of a major medical plan, that they could count on. If that’s not in the works, then regulations that drive away insurers who are offering plans but abusing the pre-existing conditions or the purging methods to remain profitable.

Capitalism shouldn’t be a darn free-for-all, with anything goes. We’ve always had to regulate business to some extent to gain a balance. And people are clear that healthcare costs are unbearable privately at this point.

So do something is the message from people. But what they have come up with? Unacceptable to people.

AnninCA on December 5, 2009 at 1:25 PM

If he adds Stupak language to the bill, he’ll lose his progressives, and without a public option, he won’t even get to 50 votes.

Unfortunately, I think they’ll come around and vote for it anyway. This is their chance of a lifetime to turn us into a Utopian paradise.

Besides, even if fed funding for abortion is outlawed, if they manage to push through a public option/single payer plan it would be an unconstitutional violation of roe v. wade to deny funding for abortions. Voila! Mission accomplished.

Buy Danish on December 5, 2009 at 1:32 PM

Unfortunately, I think they’ll come around and vote for it anyway. This is their chance of a lifetime to turn us into a Utopian paradise.

Besides, even if fed funding for abortion is outlawed, if they manage to push through a public option/single payer plan it would be an unconstitutional violation of roe v. wade to deny funding for abortions. Voila! Mission accomplished.

Buy Danish on December 5, 2009 at 1:32 PM

The Milkowski amendment, which passed, lets the HHS Secretary determine what are “preventative” services for women.

If Sebelius doesn’t decree abortion to be one, no doubt a lawsuit will promptly be filed in federal court….say in San Francisco.

Wethal on December 5, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Ben Nelson has been drinking too much Chi-Town Kool Aid and fears the Chicago thugs more than he fears his Nebraska constituents.

yoda on December 5, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Ben Nelson has been drinking too much Chi-Town Kool Aid and fears the Chicago thugs more than he fears his Nebraska constituents.

yoda on December 5, 2009 at 1:36 PM

I expect Rahm Emanuel has orderer up every possible file on a senator. And maybe hired some private eyes himself. “Nice little senate seat, bank account, marriage, etc. Shame if anything happened to it.”

According to Roll Call, Dem senators are being told if they don’t vote for Obamacare, the bills that they introduce will get no consideration. Of course, that could lead to a senator’s not being re-elected, but the Dems view this as the issue on which to sacrifice members as cannon fodder.

Wethal on December 5, 2009 at 1:41 PM

If ANYTHING gets passed the liberal judges take it from there and turn our country into Amerikastan.

Mojave Mark on December 5, 2009 at 1:45 PM

People would go for a simple public option, sort of a major medical plan, that they could count on.

AnninCA on December 5, 2009 at 1:25 PM

How do you know that Ann?

AsianGirlInTights on December 5, 2009 at 1:51 PM

If ANYTHING gets passed the liberal judges take it from there and turn our country into Amerikastan.

Mojave Mark on December 5, 2009 at 1:45 PM

When Democrats write bills, they use ambiguous language that can be interpreted by a liberal judge in the way they want, but don’t dare state in the bill. The they have someone head to court. Once interpreted, it’s hard to get an appeals court to change it.

Wethal on December 5, 2009 at 1:52 PM

As has been alluded to by many others, the answer to the question is no, it will just require larger payoffs than originally planned. These bribe-seeking Senators are scum and deserve rough justice.

SKYFOX on December 5, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Wethal on December 5, 2009 at 1:41 PM

We thought the Clinton’s were a devious lot….they’re nothing compared to these Chicago thugs. I think you are correct in thinking that all of the dirty little secrets are now being uncovered on each Senator and information will be conveniently leaked when they get ready to run for office the next time if they don’t go with the flow.

God only knows what kind of stuff Ben Nelson is holding out for…..Highway 80 being renamed Nelson Freeway??

yoda on December 5, 2009 at 1:58 PM

People would go for a simple public option, sort of a major medical plan, that they could count on.

AnninCA on December 5, 2009 at 1:25 PM
How do you know that Ann?

AsianGirlInTights on December 5, 2009 at 1:51 PM

How about THIS instead: Forget about any stupid, dopey, ignorant “public option.” How about encouraging in some fashion an actual insurance company to offer a (relatively) cheaper, catastrophic only policy. Something along the lines of any sort of treatment or procedure cheaper than say, $2000 is NOT covered. That number could be negotiable, and could even be set up like a deductable.

People have GOT to STOP this first-dollar-coverage felgercarb, and stop running to the doc for every cough and sniffle, expecting it to be “free” because they have some stupid insurance policy.

That will keep the costs down by people shopping around for the best prices. Which encourages competition. And best of all, the government can go boff themselves.

JamesLee on December 5, 2009 at 1:59 PM

JamesLee on December 5, 2009 at 1:59 PM

That was better. But Ann never answers a direct question with specifics.

AsianGirlInTights on December 5, 2009 at 2:06 PM

I wonder if liberals will really abandon nationalized health care over the abortion issue. I have my doubts. I bet they come up with a compromise.

Terrye on December 5, 2009 at 2:08 PM

James:

Actually I think that is very true. In some states people can get relatively cheap insurance if it is catastrophic. The people who have a real problem tend to be older people with problems like high blood pressure or diabetes or something who have lost coverage. They often times have a hard time getting coverage. The GOP has offered some programs that would help those folks get coverage, not for free, but for a price that they could reasonably afford.

Terrye on December 5, 2009 at 2:12 PM

I wonder if liberals will really abandon nationalized health care over the abortion issue. I have my doubts. I bet they come up with a compromise.

Terrye on December 5, 2009 at 2:08 PM

They’ve tried accounting gimmicks, so it doesn’t look like federal money is being used to subsidize it. Stupak klled that. Now the Milkulski amendment allows the HHS secretary to determine what are covered “preventative services.”

If that gets axed, one wonders what they’ll try next.

Wethal on December 5, 2009 at 2:14 PM

Anninca, I really can’t stand reading your posts when abortion comes up. You can’t seem to get it through your head that some of us care that children are ripped apart limb by limb at the request of their mothers.

We care. A lot. The issue is not going to disappear just because you’re sick of talking about it. The fact that such slaughter happens in a supposedly civilized country is beyond shameful. If abortion torches this bill, I’ll be thrilled.

Vera on December 5, 2009 at 2:14 PM

Capitalism shouldn’t be a darn free-for-all, with anything goes. We’ve always had to regulate business to some extent to gain a balance. And people are clear that healthcare costs are unbearable privately at this point.
AnninCA on December 5, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Since wherever government money goes, costs rise exponentially, the Democrats’ More of the Same health care “reform” is hardly the answer.

Rae on December 5, 2009 at 2:19 PM

Hey, I thought we were all going to die if this thing wasn’t passed last July.

I’m sick of listening to the BS of these slimy jerks. It’s all just political posturing.

Take ‘em out in ’10.

mr.blacksheep on December 5, 2009 at 2:28 PM

Its not the part I would prefer the disagreements be over…ie, runaway costs, over reaching government, new entitlements that we can’t afford…but when dealing with Democrats, these are unfortunately are non-starters.

However, because this is an issue…it is exposing the left to what lengths they will go for abortions.

Conservative Voice on December 5, 2009 at 2:40 PM

This legislation is make-or-break for President Obama. He either gets ‘Health Care Reform’ or something, anything resembling it to claim a win, or he is a one-term president. This whole ‘abortion on demand’ controversy is a smokescreen, cover for Blue Dogs and others representing moderate districts at-risk in the 2010 elections. Besides, the hard Left knows they’ll get what they want eventually: that which is not expressly forbidden will be permitted, and those aspects of universal health care not included now will certainly be included later, with government-funded abortion on demand and inclusion of undocumented immigrants at the top of the list.

Too much rides on this. We’re getting this freedom-stealing, economy wrecking boondoggle shoved down our throats no matter what, opinion polls–and the public–be damned.

troyriser_gopftw on December 5, 2009 at 2:59 PM

Capitalism shouldn’t be a darn free-for-all, with anything goes. We’ve always had to regulate business to some extent to gain a balance. And people are clear that healthcare costs are unbearable privately at this point.

So do something is the message from people. But what they have come up with? Unacceptable to people.

AnninCA on December 5, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Nail. Head. Piledriver.

We need something done, but the something that’s being presented will be worse than what we have already!

Dark-Star on December 5, 2009 at 3:10 PM

What has grown people slaughtering innocent little babies got to do with “healthcare anyways? Throw in the death panels and control of our lives in all that we do and only Godless Marxists could have brought it this far anyway.

Don L on December 5, 2009 at 3:27 PM

Wethal on December 5, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Yep, this will all end up in the courts, and as such abortion is merely a great big distraction to give cover to “moderates” to vote for the most craptastic piece of legislation ever.

It is all a red herring.
Starlink on December 5, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Exactly.

Buy Danish on December 5, 2009 at 3:59 PM

I’m curious – how would people feel if the govt allowed people to put a rider on their insurance policies to cover abortion and required the consumer to fund it out of their own pocket?

katiejane on December 5, 2009 at 4:14 PM

Exactly.

Buy Danish on December 5, 2009 at 3:59 PM

The real issue is the individual mandate. Without the mandatory premiums (or fines and jail), there is no money for this except very high taxes. Even with the mandate, it’s still going to be high taxes.

Wethal on December 5, 2009 at 4:18 PM

I am never optimistic when it involves the US government and its voters.

leftnomore on December 5, 2009 at 4:38 PM

BS! The dems will cave and then quietly slip it in 6 months later.

There should be NO discussion whatsoever on Obama care. The concept of providing health care for all must be abhorrent to us as the concept of rationing health care is….for they are both one in the same!!!!!!

csdeven on December 5, 2009 at 5:21 PM

You would think that the Dems would have some fear passing a bill that includes the funding of abortions. Not only could they suffer the wrath of the people, but also the wrath of God.

redridinghood on December 6, 2009 at 12:46 AM

redridinghood on December 6, 2009 at 12:46 AM

The Democrats fear their own party more than the wrath of God.

yoda on December 6, 2009 at 7:00 AM

The U.S. CONSTITUTION should have derailed national healthcare legislation but only a handful of those in Government actually support and defend the Constitution.

nelsonknows on December 6, 2009 at 6:29 PM

I await a firm Republican commitment to repeal this as soon as they have the majority.

Chris_Balsz on December 6, 2009 at 8:28 PM

If Obamacare passes Nebraska will not re-elect Ben Nelson – regardless of whether abortion is included. You should have heard the calls on talk radio when he announced he was going to vote for cloture. Neither Nebraska’s republicans nor democrats are happy.

He tried to say that voting for cloture wasn’t a vote enabling it to pass, but there were ads here basically showing the lie to that. It’s nice to have our senator in the news and seemingly very powerful, but Nebraskans aren’t stupid enough to enjoy being raped even if it IS by a powerful person. Kinda makes it worse, actually.

At one point he was saying he would not vote for Obamacare at all. Now he’s trying to make it sound like he’s doing us all a favor if he has a token abortion-funding ban on a bill he’s already tried to tell us is crap for a lot of other reasons.

justincase on December 6, 2009 at 9:38 PM