Video: “Hardball” takes on Palin’s birth certificate comments. What could go wrong?

posted at 8:01 pm on December 4, 2009 by Allahpundit

The money line is Buchanan asserting that she did the smart thing politically since Birthers are, after all, a chunk of the GOP base and all she really defended was their right to ask questions. Ace made a similar point today: Politics is politics, so if you have to toss a small bone to your fringies now and then to keep them focused on your broader agenda, so be it. Eh, I don’t buy it. I agree that being snotty to your fringies is dumb and likely to lose you votes, but there are ways to tactfully disagree with them. E.g., “It’s great to see the public intent on holding the president to the letter of the Constitution, but I think the certificate of live birth satisfies the natural-born requirement.” She’s not going to lose anyone’s vote with a polite rejection like that (except maybe Alan Keyes’s), especially since no other GOP candidate will end up endorsing Birtherism. She might, however, lose votes for having given the answer she did, especially if she wins the nomination and Democrats start pitching to centrists by calling her a crank. Why play to the base when she, more than any other Republican, already has the base — and Birthers — in her hip pocket? It’s moderates she needs, not “true conservatives.”

If this is a smart political move, then conceivably it’d also be a smart political move and nothing for the right to get exercised over if, say, Biden or Al Gore or some other top Democrat started head-patting Trig Truthers like Sullivan. The issue ultimately goes to her credibility, so in theory the more doubt they can sow about who Trig’s mother really is, the more discredited she’ll be. And yet, no liberal of any greater prominence than Crazy Andy himself ever touts the Trig Truth crap, mainly because (a) the science is, to any rational person, settled, and (b) they’d stand to lose more politically by encouraging the theory than they’d gain. Remember when Maurice Hinchey went on MSNBC a few days ago and asserted that Bush deliberately let Bin Laden escape? Even a Bush-hating nutroots hero like David Shuster instantly flipped out on him. Conspiracies simply don’t play well in the mainstream, even on the DNC’s pet channel. (Well, before 8 p.m., at least.)

The key point isn’t whether voters have the right to ask questions but whether a question is fair after a certain amount of evidence has been provided. That’s where Palin got in trouble last night, I think. Of course Truthers have the right to be skeptical about 9/11, but does anyone think it’s fair that they still are? Where you come down on the Birtherism debate depends on whether you think that level of evidence has been reached yet, and Palin’s initial comments to Humphreys — it’s a “fair question,” it’s “fair game,” potentially something worth raising in a debate — made it sound like she didn’t. Calling it a “stupid conspiracy” later on Facebook clarified that she did. Controversy over, let’s hope.

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There’s a reason Hardball is consistently among the lowest-rated shows on cable news. If that guy on SNL didn’t do an impression of him, he wouldn’t still be on the air.

Jim Treacher on December 4, 2009 at 9:56 PM

All this talk of “We need moderates, not conservatives.” As if you were marked with one or the other at birth. People actually can come around if you make your case for conservatism. They actually will realize it works if you show them how.

Jim Treacher on December 4, 2009 at 9:58 PM

It’s a shame that asking for something as mundane as a birth certificate is considered crazy. The people at the DMV aren’t impressed when I call them birthers though.

MrX on December 4, 2009 at 10:01 PM

that’s not on the purity test.

eh on December 4, 2009 at 8:08 PM

Evidently.

Allahpundit on December 4, 2009 at 8:09 PM

No purity tests, check. No Birthers allowed, check. Wait, what?

Jim Treacher on December 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM

People actually can come around if you make your case for conservatism.

Jim Treacher on December 4, 2009 at 9:58 PM

Show them you stand for something, show them why you’re optimistic. The squishy middle will flock to you.

John the Libertarian on December 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM

LOL. Typical. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: You’re not important enough to rate hatred. Get over yourself. You’re “acutely annoying” at best, your need for a Persecution Complex notwithstanding.

voxpopuli on December 4, 2009 at 9:33 PM

Let me tell you something. I never said you hated me, I said you hate. You have made it clear who you hate and hate is what it is.
Get over yourself?
That is great advice for a smarmy little know-it-all prick like you.
So why don’t you do that.
If you don’t I don’t care.
What you do or do not do is of no consequence to me whatsoever, or most people who read this site despite your hateful pollution of it.

You can also take your phony psycho-babble and stick it where the sun don’t shine, because you don’t know jack sh!t about me or any of the other people you routinely insult, diminish and hate upon, such as “social conservatives”, which is a pretty damn large group of Americans, %99.9 of which are far better human beings than you have shown yourself to be in these threads.

That is all I have to say to you, take it how you will.
Just don’t presume yourself to be in any better position to have an opinion than anyone else here, because really you don’t amount to anything more than an “acute annoyance” yourself. The sooner you realize that, the better for you.
Again, enjoy the bitter hatred you dwell on, and thank your lucky stars you don’t know me in real life. You wouldn’t like that encounter very much at all.

Brian1972 on December 4, 2009 at 10:04 PM

By “their peers” you of course mean ACORN funded leftists who vote in the GOP primaries ensuring McCain…is nominated?

chicagojedi on December 4, 2009 at 9:33 PM

how does this nonsense stay in rotation.

it didn’t happen. it wasn’t even a partisan canard which circulated at some point, it’s just some illusion mccain derangement sufferers “remember” happening.

the closest thing for an actual story behind that claim is that kos wrote a post trying to rally the koskids to vote for romney in the michigan primary.

mccain won the primary because all of the “real” conservatives were running around until the last minute trying to figure out who the realest “real” conservative candidate would be, having spent the entire primary investing themselves in fred thompson. in the final tally, the “real” conservative vote was so widely split that the grown-ups got to pick.

live with the fact: you screwed yourselves.

eh on December 4, 2009 at 10:04 PM

The knee-jerk, instant bashing of AP every single time is getting old fast.

He was right on the money with this post.

KeepOhioRed on December 4, 2009 at 10:05 PM

4:20–> Tingles: “Is there anything that would discharge them from this belief? Is there any paper that would stop them?”

A–> A valid birth certificate

Dollayo on December 4, 2009 at 10:06 PM

Yawn. Somebody wake me when somebody like Treacher shows up. At least he tries. OK thanks.

/off

voxpopuli on December 4, 2009 at 9:41 PM

Treach would be lowering himself to respond to your kindergarten-level excrement. So, piss off, little one.

hillbillyjim on December 4, 2009 at 10:07 PM

Show them you stand for something, show them why you’re optimistic. The squishy middle will flock to you.

John the Libertarian on December 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM

and if you are like Obama and show them you do not stand for something after election they will jump ship fast

unseen on December 4, 2009 at 10:10 PM

LOL. Typical. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: You’re not important enough to rate hatred. Get over yourself. You’re “acutely annoying” at best, your need for a Persecution Complex notwithstanding.

voxpopuli on December 4, 2009 at 9:33 PM

Get a load of this bizzaro Dr.Phil telling me I need to get over myself.

Feel the hate.

Brian1972 on December 4, 2009 at 10:12 PM

Show them you stand for something, show them why you’re optimistic. The squishy middle will flock to you.

John the Libertarian on December 4, 2009 at 10:02 PM

Yep. You’d think nobody’d ever heard of Reagan.

Jim Treacher on December 4, 2009 at 10:12 PM

I hope I see the day when talking out of both sides of your mouth isn’t considered “political savvy.”

RightOFLeft on December 4, 2009 at 10:20 PM

Get a load of this bizzaro Dr.Phil telling me I need to get over myself.

Brian1972 on December 4, 2009 at 10:12 PM

Dude, let it go. I discovered quickly last night he’s not dealing with a full deck.

John the Libertarian on December 4, 2009 at 10:21 PM

Yep. You’d think nobody’d ever heard of Reagan.

Jim Treacher on December 4, 2009 at 10:12 PM

The era of Reagan is over. We need to move on to modern crunchy-conism, right? That is what all the smart kids say.

Brian1972 on December 4, 2009 at 10:22 PM

unseen on December 4, 2009 at 9:54 PM

gosh you’re brilliant. lemme try this again. by subtracting from the total population of the u.s. all of the major urban areas – northeast corridor, chicago/milwaukee, la and sanfran, and not counting other, redder megalopolises like texas, phoenix, southern illinois/indianna, etc. – we can arrive at the population of “flyover country”: 127 million.

one third.

hey! that ain’t half niether, pardner.

eh on December 4, 2009 at 10:23 PM

Dude, let it go. I discovered quickly last night he’s not dealing with a full deck.

John the Libertarian on December 4, 2009 at 10:21 PM

No kidding. That is what I find amusing about that statement.

Brian1972 on December 4, 2009 at 10:23 PM

Good God, I love Sarah Palin.
She is going to be the next President of the United States.
Assuming, of course, that the United States is still around then.

I never really gave much of a crap about Obama’s birth business. His being a Marxist, liar, imbecile, and now the Worst President Ever is enough for me.

I do find it interesting, but not surprising, that he hides his background. That does raise the question of what exactly he is hiding, does it not?

justltl on December 4, 2009 at 10:25 PM

Yep. You’d think nobody’d ever heard of Reagan.

Jim Treacher on December 4, 2009 at 10:12 PM

well to acknowledge Reagan would mean to give up their power and run as small government conservatives. So of course they never heard of him

unseen on December 4, 2009 at 10:25 PM

Geez, what’s the big deal about birthers and birtherism anyway?! It’s a conspiracy theory that’s going nowhere.

Think of it as an article of faith. Never having personally seen Barak Obama’s birth certificate, I nevertheless trust and believe in sources of information who say that they are satisfied. The fact that somebody else does not have that same trust does not affect my sense of well being. They might be frustrated with me, or not sufficiently patriotic. Oh well.

Fiscal conservatism is the order of the day and on that need we are in complete agreement. Unify.

Note to AP: Let it go.

exdeadhead on December 4, 2009 at 10:26 PM

“Again, enjoy the bitter hatred you dwell on, and thank your lucky stars you don’t know me in real life. You wouldn’t like that encounter very much at all.”
– Mahatma Ghandi

LOL

voxpopuli on December 4, 2009 at 10:28 PM

I think that Mark Twain said it best.

Satan (impatiently) to New Comer. The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous.

Johan Klaus on December 4, 2009 at 10:45 PM

the “real” conservative vote was so widely split that the grown-ups got to pick.

The “grown-ups” picked McCain!!!!

How did that work out?

mockmook on December 4, 2009 at 10:59 PM

HA is the only legitimate haven of any repute for Quitter Fans that I know of, yes. It’s not exactly a robust populace, book sales notwithstanding.

voxpopuli on December 4, 2009 at 9:18 PM

The robustness of that populace always seems to surprise. And it’s not showing signs of going away, as it was supposed to do after November 2008.

ddrintn on December 4, 2009 at 11:03 PM

First of all, I believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. You can forge birth certificates, you can, with some political power, change many things, not easily, but it can be done. However, you can’t get things put in a newspaper, from 40+ years ago, such as the birth announcement. That’s why I believe Obama was born in Hawaii.

My conspiracy theory is this, that Obama has gone to college and gotten scholarships, based on him not being a citizen and, if these records are all made public there will be questions.

The Liberals claim we have the most intelligent president ever, yet he refuses to allow access to his grade transcripts. He wants to get rid of the doubt about his birth certificate and yet won’t show it to the press. Common sense says there’s something somewhere. Alas, he’s a liberal democrat and the press won’t ask the questions.

Sarah is correct, people do have a right to ask questions and, when it comes to a man who’s president, they have a right to answers.

bflat879 on December 5, 2009 at 12:12 AM

Will these nit wits who work for Hot Air and write this garbage please go back over to the White House and kiss the Messiah’s can! Gads – what stupid garbage. The Messiah has not said one honest thing out of any of his orifices – so we are supposed to believe that this Marxist was born in Hawaii – why? Because the lefties who run Hot Air are in the tank for him and hate Sarah Palin? Look – if people don’t believe you were born in the U.S. show them your birth certificate – end of story. He’s the president – he could call up the flunkies in Honolulu and say “Show them the damn Birth Certificate.” But he doesn’t. Why? Duh! Why don’t you lefties at Hot Air go back to Russia – doesn’t Pravda need some flunkies over there?

Cinday Blackburn on December 4, 2009 at 8:39 PM

Rock on, Cinday. Have you noticed that when anyone comes near the question of the eligibility question on any media outlet, it’s dam the torpedoes and destroy at all costs?
The group that went after Lou Dobbs so perseveringly (can’t remember the name at the moment), had their leader on some show just after Lou got the boot. The guy said that they had been after CNN to get rid of Lou for some time, but when Lou started questioning the whereabouts of the long form birth certificate, THE GUY SAID THAT WAS WHEN THEY DECIDED THAT LOU HAD TO GO NO MATTER WHAT IT TOOK. The flak is real because the target is vulnerable as can be. If Obama had nothing to hide, he wouldn’t have spent $$$$ on lawyers to keep it hidden. By the way, his half-sister Maya, who acknowledges being born in Indonesia, also has a certificate of live birth showing that she was born in Hawaii, just like the one Obama is using as “proof” of his birthplace. Hmmmmm. Hmmmmm. Hmmmmm.

tigerlily on December 5, 2009 at 12:35 AM

Maybe Palin can throw a bone and hit Allahpundit in the teeth.

nelsonknows on December 5, 2009 at 12:47 AM

The best thing about the Birth Certificate Constroversy?, it pisses off leftists, ANYTHING that pisses off a leftist makes my day!

nelsonknows on December 5, 2009 at 12:49 AM

The lies from Michelle Obama and Gibbs and Emmanuale, stating that death threats for Obama had risen 400% over every other President in history was found to be a LIE !!! Secret service says death threats are the same as last president and that of Bill Clinton.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/12/03/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5879268.shtml

nelsonknows on December 5, 2009 at 1:02 AM

My conspiracy theory is this, that Obama has gone to college and gotten scholarships, based on him not being a citizen and, if these records are all made public there will be questions.

The Liberals claim we have the most intelligent president ever, yet he refuses to allow access to his grade transcripts. He wants to get rid of the doubt about his birth certificate and yet won’t show it to the press. Common sense says there’s something somewhere. Alas, he’s a liberal democrat and the press won’t ask the questions.

Sarah is correct, people do have a right to ask questions and, when it comes to a man who’s president, they have a right to answers.

bflat879 on December 5, 2009 at 12:12 AM

I think there is a pretty good chance he was born in Hawaii. The COLB isn’t sufficient to prove that, and neither is an announcement in a newspaper IMO. It would definitely lead you to believe that was the case but it is not indisputable proof of a Hawaiian birth.

I do think he is hiding something in his BC, however. There are some very strange circumstances surrounding this guy.

I agree with you 100% about his college transcripts. I think he manipulated the system to every degree he could. He was a US citizen when it benefited him, he was a British/Kenyan/Indonesia/Whatever when it benefited him.

What is the truth? Who really knows?

I would have been happy if he had released his college transcripts. The media fell down on this (that means YOU as well Allah – damn right you should have made it an issue).

All I can say is in 2012 whoever the candidates are BOTH candidates need to release their college transcripts – or NONE of them need to.

It would not be fair to allow Zero a pass then ask his opponent to provide their transcripts.Zero has already sealed his records, so getting them might be a little tough.

Allah is a pathetic f@#$ for his constant ‘snarky’ attacks on the party. He is exactly the sort of person I really enjoy seeing Palin’s popularity irritate.

He sits in his little room lit only by the glow of a computer screen and the TV tuned to MSNBC and wonders ‘why can’t my Meghan McCain be that popular’?

Mr Purple on December 5, 2009 at 1:13 AM

The thought just came to me that our speed-talking and splatteringly loveable Chris Matthews stands in proud company with another fellow who has been all over the media himself, lately. He, like Chris Matthews, thinks of the US military as the enemy. Now, what is his name again…? Oh, yeah, NIDAL HASAN!!!!!!!!!

tigerlily on December 5, 2009 at 1:13 AM

If Sarah Palin ever became President, Chris Matthew’s head would explode. I’d pay to watch that meltdown.

Come to think about it, any Republican would make Matthew’s head explode.

yoda on December 5, 2009 at 1:23 AM

Palin did not endorse the birther thing. She just linked it to something she personally thinks is rediculous that is that Trig is not her Son

come think of that. Not everyone can remember there own birth but for sure the women that had children will clearly remember those events.

1-0 for Palin.

the let the boomerang go right back to the Trig-truthers.

mooseburger on December 5, 2009 at 1:30 AM

The irony is that Hot Air is the only place that seems really concerned about this.

Connie on December 5, 2009 at 1:33 AM

The money line is Buchanan asserting that she did the smart thing politically since Birthers are, after all, a chunk of the GOP base Hillary PUMAs/Obama haters.

Connie on December 5, 2009 at 1:35 AM

I took it as tongue in cheek. Ed definitiely has a problem with Sarah.

What’s wrong Ed, upset that’s she’s more of man than you’ll ever be?

Hard Right on December 5, 2009 at 1:47 AM

Matthews and Buchanan are absolutely right. She is smart, and preparing for the post 2010 election battle with the Republican Establishment.

csThor on December 5, 2009 at 2:06 AM

Sorry Ed, should have said AP.

Hard Right on December 5, 2009 at 2:13 AM

If Sarah Palin ever became President, Chris Matthew’s head would explode. I’d pay to watch that meltdown.

yoda on December 5, 2009 at 1:23 AM

If it bleeds, it leads! :-) (But would it tingle?)

You can forge birth certificates… However, you can’t get things put in a newspaper, from 40+ years ago, such as the birth announcement.

bflat879 on December 5, 2009 at 12:12 AM

Of all the things pro/con on this topic, wasn’t the newspaper announcement supposed to be the *least* conclusive of all clues? Isn’t it true that all it proves is that a relative phoned in the announcement to the local paper on or around August 4, 1961, and little else?

Such as the birth hospital, for instance — which AFAIK is still a mystery, as both Kapiolani and Queens have been cited as his birth hospital, and yet no one from either place has come forward to say they delivered him, etc.? (Is it too much to ask that someone *finally* come forward and do this, to resolve the birth hospital question for purposes of an accurate biography? Or is that just a bridge too far?)

RD on December 5, 2009 at 2:14 AM

It’s so fun watching the HA Palinites squirm, spin, do a 180 and now advocate birthers and birtherism….after a year or so of bashing it. Hell, even birthers are coming out of the comment section wordwork. According to the Palinites own (newly acquired) logic, they won’t be able to bash truthers from this point on.

Just remember what Palinites are now advocating:
1. The birthers are rightfully pursuing birtherism.
2. Palin won’t have to make birtherism an issue since birthers are doing it already.
3. Birtherism is a fair question.

If that isn’t bad enough, replace birtherism/birthers with trutherism/truthers.

Talk about digging a hole…..Huckabee has nothing on the recent Palin-birther converts.

nottakingsides on December 5, 2009 at 2:19 AM

It’s so fun watching the HA Palinites squirm, spin, do a 180 and now advocate birthers and birtherism….after a year or so of bashing it.

nottakingsides on December 5, 2009 at 2:19 AM

Names?

Jim Treacher on December 5, 2009 at 2:33 AM

I agree that being snotty to your fringies is dumb and likely to lose you votes, but there are ways to tactfully disagree with them. E.g., “It’s great to see the public intent on holding the president to the letter of the Constitution, but I think the certificate of live birth satisfies the natural-born requirement.” She’s not going to lose anyone’s vote with a polite rejection like that (except maybe Alan Keyes’s), especially since no other GOP candidate will end up endorsing Birtherism. She might, however, lose votes for having given the answer she did, especially if she wins the nomination and Democrats start pitching to centrists by calling her a crank. Why play to the base when she, more than any other Republican, already has the base — and Birthers — in her hip pocket? It’s moderates she needs, not “true conservatives.”

Another option is that she is baiting the media, and Obama, who has been known to take these things personally. It’s the perfect issue for her. She has the moral high ground and they are starting in a pit because of his refusal to divulge his BC, or any other records. If they take the bait then she plays the protective momma bear defending her special needs cub, and expose the double standard of the media demanding Trig’s documents, but not Obama’s.

I don’t know if she planned this or just stumbled into it, but it’s a simple trap to avoid. The media only has to ignore this tasty morsel if they can. She poisoned the fish heads, and then chummed the water. Yesterday I didn’t think anybody but Sullivan would take the bait, but leave it to Matthews to show me that there is someone dumber than Sullivan.

DFCtomm on December 5, 2009 at 2:50 AM

Another reason why I think this is a strategy is because she is the only person in the entire U.S. who can play this dueling birth certificate game with Obama and the media and not come out looking like a nut. She get to appeal to the birthers and call the media bias in the same breath, and do it based on a double standard argument not on a constitutional argument.

DFCtomm on December 5, 2009 at 3:04 AM

Seems to me she handled the issue just fine. I am certainly not a birther but see no reason to jump up and attack the rights of those who are to ask questions. This is one of those issues that primarily seem to offend elites, and those hoping to be invited to their parties.

DaMav on December 5, 2009 at 4:22 AM

“We need moderates, not conservatives.”

Maybe we can realize conservatives ARE the moderates.

davecatbone on December 5, 2009 at 7:39 AM

…if, say, Biden or Al Gore or some other top Democrat started head-patting Trig Truthers like Sullivan.

How about Obama meeting with Sullivan and therefore endorsing Trig trutherism however obliquely?

Obama held a meeting with several columnists and liberal commentators this morning…The group included…The Atlantic’s Andrew Sullivan…

Double standard much?

I have serious doubts about Palin as a viable candidate but this is a pitiful post.

Dwilkers on December 5, 2009 at 7:46 AM

Here’s how I see it. I think that Gov. Palin was pointing out that if maternal parentage of her son was made into such a big deal that she had to produce proof in order to shut up the critics, then asking about Obama’s birth certificate is also fair game. If anyone has been following Gov. Palin knows, she found it (and still does) distasteful that the Trig rumors/conspiracy theories were flying. I think she was trying to put the birthers into the same category, but since she’s not the “great speaker” like Obama it didn’t come out as well as it should have. But she doesn’t wish to trample on anyone’s 1st Amendment right to ask the questions no matter how ridiculous they might be.

On a side note: That woman in the above video made the statement that no other presidential candidate had to prove their citizenship. I seem to recall that during the campaign there were questions of whether McCain could constitutionally be president because he was born on a naval base in Panama. I guess no one remembers that one. I contend that if McCain became president instead of Obama, not only would we be constantly be bombarded with the validity of McCain’s place of birth, but Trig’s real mother conspiracies.

mizflame98 on December 5, 2009 at 8:58 AM

I think the certificate of live birth satisfies the natural-born requirement.”

You do – others don’t. The requirement of the Constitution seems to be a little more specific than the requirement to get a DL. There is no Constitution requirement for Palin to prove that she is the biological mother of Trig.

While I won’t say I reject his assertion that he was born in Hawaii – no one is to blame for the continuation of this issue other than Obama. The questions regarding his qualifications became a big issue due to his refusal to release so many records. When you try to hide information MOST normal people wonder why.

katiejane on December 5, 2009 at 9:03 AM

The more the media and the White House continue to mock the questions about his birth certificate and the surrounding controversy, the more I begin to question them.

The media and the White House have an extensive history of mocking and ridiculing those things they don’t want the public to know.

John McCain’s birth was challenged. He showed a birth certificate. As a matter of fact, can anyone think of any president in our generation that did not have to somehow validate their place of birth?

Personally, I find his refusal to release his birth certificate to be on par with setting himself up to NOT be questioned. He has released nothing, birth certificate, grades, legal records from his time in the Senate (State and U.S.).

No doubt he is hiding something (place of birth – eh, not so sure about that) but he is certainly hiding something, and in order to set himself up to answer for nothing he has decided to answer no questions at all – no matter how benign.

Virginia Shanahan on December 5, 2009 at 9:32 AM

It’s so fun watching the HA Palinites squirm, spin, do a 180 and now advocate birthers and birtherism….after a year or so of bashing it.

nottakingsides on December 5, 2009 at 2:19 AM

Names?

Jim Treacher on December 5, 2009 at 2:33 AM

Good point, you’ve always advocated Birtherism.

crr6 on December 5, 2009 at 10:03 AM

” it’s “fair game,” potentially something worth raising in a debate

Fine, bring this up in a debate — Palin will bring up the complete and utter failure of this president to do anything substantive about the economy.

Ace made that point too — who will give a rat’s arse about this statement when unemployment is still at 10%?

Richard Romano on December 5, 2009 at 10:05 AM

This is about something greater than policy. From the outset of his campaign, the Obama camp set it up so that Obama would not acknowledge, much less answer, to any questions about him or even his policies – unless forced to and only then does he provide a vague answer.

From the beginning he has modeled himself after Castro, Putin, Chavez – it’s the “Do not dare question me,” model.

Look at what the White House has tried to do with those that have questioned him. They have directly attacked them. Look at what they did to Joe the Plumber after entering his neighborhood.

You NEVER question the dictates of our dear leader.

Virginia Shanahan on December 5, 2009 at 10:13 AM

Could someone tell me why instead of all this focus on where Barack Obama Jr. was born, that there is not more attention paid to where Stanley Ann Dunham was just prior to or on the birth of the Messiah and that applies to Barack Obama Sr. as well.

technopeasant on December 5, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Question
Is a Fullbright scholarship given to US citizens?
No, it is an international exchange program operated by the State Dept.
Did Obama get a Fullbright scholarship?

elclynn on December 5, 2009 at 11:01 AM

The irony is that Hot Air is the only place that seems really concerned about this.

Connie on December 5, 2009 at 1:33 AM

Yes, pretty much. That’s the big “problem” that the mainstream media talks about. The big “divide” in the GOP party.

What’s interesting is that the position taken by this blog on the e-mail Climate-gate and how that means there is no global warming is actually being jeered at far more than birthers or trig-truthers combined. The opinion is that this is the “fringe” element of the far-right.

So like it or not, this blog is right in the same fringe corner according to outside opinions. They’d never be able to attract moderates either pushing that meme.

AnninCA on December 5, 2009 at 11:09 AM

RD on December 5, 2009 at 2:14 AM

There are problems with the birth announcements. The newspapers have given conflicting statements over how that information was derived. The prevailing idea is that there were two different places for birth announcements – one from the DOH and another with paid announcements containing more information. We know that the DOH was required to submit the births to the newspapers and/or have a list of births on record for public viewing. So it seems probable that what is in the newspapers is from the DOH.

The DOH has said that they had records on Obama’s birth by Aug 8, 1961 – the date on both the Factcheck and FTS COLB’s.

But there are problems because of the Nordyke twins’ information, which has been posted online. Kapiolani Hospital (where it is NOW claimed Obama was born; there’s a letter on WH stationery with raised seal and Obama’s sgnature saying he was born there) had the doctors sign all the birth certificates on the Friday following the birth and then they submitted all the BC’s to the local and state registrar, which then sent the information to the newspapers to publish in the Sunday and Monday papers.

According to the Factcheck and FTS COLB’s, Obama was born on a Friday evening – after the BC’s for the week had been sent in. The Nordyke twins were born the next day. According to how Kapiolani did things – observable in every long-form BC from Kapiolani that I can find – means that both the Nordyke twins and Obama would have had their BC’s signed and submitted the following Friday, Aug 11th. The Nordyke twins’ were submitted then. Obama’s should have definitely gone in the same batch with the Nordyke twins’. And the Nordyke twins’ certificate numbers come BEFORE Obama’s, so they must have gone in the same batch.

This poses some problems for the Factcheck and FTS COLB’s – which isn’t surprising since the DOH has already indirectly confirmed them as forgeries. If Obama had been born at Kapiolani Hospital the DOH would not have had records on him until Aug 11th.

It also poses problems for the two newspaper announcements because the DOH would have had to send birth information for the Nordyke twins also, to go in the Aug 13th and 14th papers. But the Nordyke twins aren’t in that paper. And as far as I know, nobody has been able to locate a birth announcement for them in any paper. It would perhaps be worth the effort to ask Eleanor Nordyke if she has any clippings of the birth announcement, or if she remembers when the births were announced. If the birth announcements page for Obama is not forged, then the Nordyke twins were not reported in the newspaper they should have been in.

A colleague has been waiting for the library system to locate either paper’s microfiche for over a month and just heard yesterday that the Star-Bulletin microfiche has been located. She has yet to see it though. Not a peep on the Advertiser microfiche so they apparently haven’t been able to locate it. This makes it seem really weird that Lori Starfelt was able to find the announcement so quickly (using the same library system as my colleague) and post it to Texas Darlin’s blog. There have been claims that the announcements are forgeries; the way to prove one way or another would be to look at the original microfiche. Unfortunately, nobody to date has been able to do that.

So basically the dates don’t line up. The NOrdyke twins’ date of acceptance by the state registrar lines up but Obama’s doesn’t. Conversely, Obama’s birth announcement is there when it should have been, but the birth announcement that we know should have been in the Aug 13/14 papers for the Nordykes is missing.

So we need to know why the Nordykes’ birth announcements went missing and we need to know why Kapiolani sent Obama’s birth information in 3 days earlier than their standard protocol.

We also need to know how Obama’s birth certificate qualifies as “delayed” if he was born at Kapiolani on Aug 4, 1961 and the birth certificate was in the office of the DOH by Aug 8, 1961.

The proof is in the details and unfortunately for both Obama and the DOH, the details don’t match what the public has been led to believe.

justincase on December 5, 2009 at 11:29 AM

What’s interesting about this is that “Hardball” disobeyed the pre-election and post-election threats from Obama’s lawyers in order to mention this story. See, Palin had nothing to lose on this because the media has been threatened by Obama not to mention the eligibility issue. So Palin knows there won’t be any mainstream coverage of this – as we see has been the case.

But “Hardball” must have been told it was okay to try to use the issue if it was a way to (supposedly) damage Palin’s credibility. They won’t ever go into it in depth because that would be too damaging to Obama – especially now that the DOH has indirectly confirmed that the Factcheck and FTS COLB’s are forgeries. “Hardball” thought they could hurt Palin’s credibility with this, but only if they never actually delved into the real problems already identified with Obama’s documentation.

justincase on December 5, 2009 at 11:36 AM

Biden or Al Gore or some other top Democrat started head-patting Trig Truthers like Sullivan.

Didn’t the get invited to the white house?

the_nile on December 5, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Hardball………..should be called NOBALLS plus, who in their right mind gives a crap what they say.

Old Hippie Vet on December 5, 2009 at 1:22 PM

Didn’t have time to read all the comments, so if this has been mentioned, sorry. Remember the Dems throwing a big stink over John McCain being born in the Panama Canal and whether he was eligible or not? Remember he showed his birth certificate – case closed? Obama gave us nothing, not even a public record to go on. What some of us had to go on was the info gleaned by a few journalists and bloggers and we knew what we were getting from that. Most people do not spend any time reading or searching for that type of info. I don’t see why people are being called “birthers” for daring to question the fact that Obama is going to a lot of trouble to keep everything hid. We know he is a liar and a shady character to say the very least, so why is it taboo to question his birth certificate. If you have nothing to hide, you don’t behave this way. What it is is the left’s way of censoring those who would question. Why do we keep playing their game and letting them control this?

silvernana on December 5, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Comparing birth truthers to Trig truthers? Even using that as an example is ridiculous.

AP, I have read your stuff for awhile now but today something is off. I am suspicious you may be medicated or possibly delirious from pre swine flu symptoms, maybe a hangover?

Not mine to judge but today I have read how you doubt Obowma uses the middle finger to insult political enemies and now this.

I don’t know where the guy was born, he is in the office for the next 3 years no matter what. People need to get over it. I understand the anger and the question but what do they want?

He will never respond to the question. I am more interested in if he ever actually attended Columbia and how he paid for Harvard. Ultimately that doesn’t matter either, he is in this spot for three more years.

FireBlogger on December 5, 2009 at 2:53 PM

Names?

Jim Treacher on December 5, 2009 at 2:33 AM

Asked and answered Jimmy boy.

BTW…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpSwO0aJKHA

Good4Onan on December 5, 2009 at 3:20 PM

Average people become bored with politics because some folks allow this kind of unimportant crap into the conversation taking timeshare away from or completely passing over the really important day-to-day issues. That’s exactly why the mainstream media is generally failing.

That said, Barry is definitely hiding an early in life disavowment of his American citizenship. Just another element of his communist childhood. Hell, he as much as admitted it in his book, so of course it’s going to come up.

Griz on December 5, 2009 at 3:26 PM

Asked and answered Jimmy bo

Good4Onan on December 5, 2009 at 3:20 PM

Good point, you’ve always advocated Birtherism.

crr6 on December 5, 2009 at 10:03 AM

more proof of the axiom, ‘All Trolls Are Stupid’ and ‘No Troll post has any intelligent content’

You two should mate; the offspring would astound mankind…

Janos Hunyadi on December 5, 2009 at 4:00 PM

The more things get screwed up and the more folks catch on to what this guy and his comrades are doing, the more will be interested in seeing the actual long form.

Or maybe not. Perhaps we’re a nation of sheepish masochists.

Dr. ZhivBlago on December 5, 2009 at 4:23 PM

Just take AP’s word for it,

“The science is settled”

Right?

franksalterego on December 5, 2009 at 5:01 PM

You two should mate; the offspring would astound mankind…

Janos Hunyadi on December 5, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Thanks, now I won’t be able to eat dinner.

Del Dolemonte on December 5, 2009 at 5:25 PM

The key point isn’t whether voters have the right to ask questions but whether a question is fair after a certain amount of evidence has been provided. That’s where Palin got in trouble last night, I think.

Trig parentage is for the Enquirer. Most people don’t even now know the kid’s name and most do not want to talk too much about the disabled. Bush letting Obama go is also something most people do not talk about. The interest level is zero.

But I run into a lot of people who do not trust Obama’s origins, and most of these people are not conservatives. They do not trust Obama because his presentation of proof to this day, has not been straight forward.

This would not be an issue except most people in my parts think they are being screwed by politicans. This does not relate to bin Laden or the war in Iraq, it relates to the way money moved towards bankers, while jobs and homes vanished.

Politicans got their money. Politicians are helping other crooks. Who is in charge? If he isn’t helping me with more than talk I have no reason to trust him.

As far as “whether a question is fair after a certain amount of evidence has been provided”. IMHO the basic evidence, required of dumb taxpayers for a lot less than the job of being in charge of the US military and its nuclear arsenal has never been provided.

However, a lot of proof the politicians currently in office are lying cheating scoundrels is everywhere.

Palin doesn’t hurt herself here. Citizens, taxpayers, voters, have a full right to not be happy with the secondary evidence presented, and the greasy way the issue is being turned around to attack those who are not satisfied

They have a right to be dissatisfied. They have a right to question the suspicious way the whole issue, which should have been a non issue, is being played out, and they would have to be fools to not see the ones in power are launcing an attack against them for even questioning the evidence

entagor on December 5, 2009 at 6:40 PM

IMHO, a game is being played to turn the birth issue into an attack on birthers to provide smokescreen for some level of coverup

Coverup of what is another question. Probably multiple items.

By trivializing the birther suspicions, they can fill the blanks with white noise and keep folk from other digging.

I assume at this point the weaknesses were known long before the election and a strategy was devised to create an issue to slow discovery. Not that the birthers are wrong, but it may not be the biggest problem in the package called Obama & company.

When you have some dogs in your past, you have to bark loud enough no one hears them barking

Guess they figured he can get at least 4 years out of this, and if he can keep the birther issue from being settled, the public might burn out. Too bad for Obama & Company he landed in the beginning of a Depression. Games don’t play the same

Once again, I think Palin made a smart move, and the more they call her dumb for this, the more the public warms up to her. She is a natural. Palin has great instincts

entagor on December 5, 2009 at 6:51 PM

I pretty much quit reading this site because of AP’s constant haranguing on Palin, coupled with his narcissistic viewpoint that his opinion is the only “correct” one.

I do find it amusing that there are so many here, though, who seem to be parsing every single word out of Palin’s mouth, and blowing everything she says way up out of proportion.

Why anyone would care what happens on Chris Matthews’ show is beyond my understanding, but so is the propensity for labeling people who still want to see Obama’s (closed) records “kooks.” Throwing a label on people makes it so much easier to dismiss what they say.

Just like the liberals do, every day.

JannyMae on December 5, 2009 at 7:10 PM

AP is a dipshit. The sooner Michelle gets that and gets a decent blogger in here to support Ed, someone that doesn’t sleep all day, post 3 nasty posts between 5 and 7pm, then go out and get drunk again, well, the sooner she gets it the better for all of us.

He has been freeloading for at least a year and a half. Poor Ed is carrying the site while spending his days in the hospital with his wife.

Where are you Ms. Malkin?

Dwilkers on December 5, 2009 at 7:21 PM

To be clear, it would be far better if it went back to the way it used to be. AP has a site that can be ignored by anyone that isn’t interested in The View and he gets a regular job, Ed goes back to CQ and we can get some undiluted decent writing on conservative issues, and MM has her site which is very good.

Dwilkers on December 5, 2009 at 7:33 PM

When I watched Palin interview the meaning I took from it was politicians are going to be asked stupid questions, answer them and they go away.

I thought the question about Obama’s birth were stupid, until I compared it to Obama’s response.

Slowburn on December 5, 2009 at 9:16 PM

“I was against birtherism, until Palin was for it”

nottakingsides on December 5, 2009 at 10:14 PM


Where are you Ms. Malkin?

Dwilkers on December 5, 2009 at 7:21 PM

Anger management class?

Good4Onan on December 5, 2009 at 11:52 PM

Not a “smart political move”? That assumes she has any interest in running for political office. She may be quite happy operate unfettered by political considerations. It has certainly worked well for Rush.

pgrossjr on December 5, 2009 at 11:58 PM

Like I said before, those who are pursuing the issue are not evil. There is no comparison between birthers and truthers. I have a real problem with bloggers who feel they have to highlight birthers in order to throw them under the bus. It’s childish and petty and makes some bloggers look pretty small. We have a President who hasn’t released anything; a President who lies about his relationships…I really can’t blame anyone who doesn’t think he’s telling the truth. What is ironic is that I’m not seeing this issue promoted anywhere except Hot Air. Why is that?

Connie on December 6, 2009 at 2:24 AM

What is ironic is that I’m not seeing this issue promoted anywhere except Hot Air. Why is that?

Connie on December 6, 2009 at 2:24 AM

You don’t have a TV, radio, internet connection, etc..?

nottakingsides on December 6, 2009 at 6:54 AM

Why we don’t start from the very beginning and go from Creationism vs. Evolution?

From which is a true religion on the eyes of God?

Does God exist?

Do UFOs exist? Are we along in the vast Universe?

Did we ever had for real dragons? Unicorns? Faeries? Pegasus? Greek gods or do we have more than one God, is this God(s) male, female or both?

Do angels exist? Archangels? Guardian angels? Mere angels? Are they male, female or androginous?

Do you believe in destiny or your own path that lead to your actions that lead to your own consequences?

That’s pretty much it. If I did not make the point the other day about the right to ask questions (when we Republicans and/or Conservatives are torn apart, we are purely morons, ignorants and dumbasses).

How in the world are we gonna take the bull by the horns and see they get a good size of their own medicine? Until we do, read my post again.

It is up to each of you.

ProudPalinFan on December 6, 2009 at 10:17 AM

we are purely morons, ignorants and dumbasses

ProudPalinFan on December 6, 2009 at 10:17 AM

Now, just add, “Palin 2012″ and you’ve got yourself a campaign slogan worthy of all Wal Mart shoppers AND moose-dog lovers alike.

Good4Onan on December 6, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Now, just add, “Palin 2012″ and you’ve got yourself a campaign slogan worthy of all Wal Mart shoppers AND moose-dog lovers alike.

Good4Onan on December 6, 2009 at 10:27 AM

No, I don’t shop at SOHO nor am I a snotty ignoramus. I don’t pretend, and if Palin runs in 2012 of course I’ll pull a Chrissy and state I will do anything to make her presidency successful. If she decides it’s not convenient/timely, I will understand that as well.

Why she does not sign her books at SOHO or other fancy overpriced items, Good4Nothing? Because of airheaded people like you.

ProudPalinFan on December 6, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Fair. Fairness. Maybe because I am a mother this matters more to me, or because of my special needs child. Maybe because I watched Hillary and Palin get treated unfairly, and continue to be subjected to a different standard, I am yearning for a fair playing field now. How casually you invoke fairness while failing to apply it.

Why must I be labeled a birther because I find it unfair to Americans Barack Hussein Obama refuses to release his long form birth certificate? Because bloggers are too lazy to adapt after coming up with some clever name or word for blogosphere post titles? The Dems. coined this phrase when questioning BHO’s ability to run for president, but we are beyond that now. If I had to go back three times to renew my drivers license with a certified birth certificate, divorce papers, and death certificate, then why should BHO get special treatment?

Tell me, what name do you give me for your identity politics mocking when I ask where BHO’s academic records are, or why Michelle Obama had her law license revoked? I always referred to it as free speech but that doesn’t seem negative enough for you.

FeFe on December 6, 2009 at 2:45 PM

Obama seems to be a homegrown one-man sleeper cell for the Leftoid socialist-anarcho-marxist DAMN ideology: -Destroy America’s Might, Now!.

A type of vacuous, emotionalistic, self-defeating P.C. idiocy.

Sometimes such meddling morons are born here.

profitsbeard on December 6, 2009 at 6:40 PM

Good point, you’ve always advocated Birtherism.

crr6 on December 5, 2009 at 10:03 AM

I’ve always pointed out that it’s not the same as saying Bush ordered 9/11, sweetheart.

Jim Treacher on December 6, 2009 at 6:50 PM

Asked and answered Jimmy boy.

BTW…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpSwO0aJKHA

Good4Onan on December 5, 2009 at 3:20 PM

How completely useless you are.

Jim Treacher on December 6, 2009 at 6:51 PM

How completely useless you are.

Jim Treacher on December 6, 2009 at 6:51 PM

Actually, it would appear that YOU were the useless one given your impotency as a fortune teller. Or was that just a bit of “hot air”?

Good4Onan on December 6, 2009 at 9:18 PM

One of the things I never get tired of is our political betters giving us guidelines regarding what is acceptable to pursue. The way they carry the water for our political opponents is nothing short of mesmerizing. The nice thing about it is that it also gives our opponents a break while our guys make sure the work goes on. Way to go!

Mormon Doc on December 7, 2009 at 1:25 AM

Actually, it would appear that YOU were the useless one given your impotency as a fortune teller. Or was that just a bit of “hot air”?

Good4Onan on December 6, 2009 at 9:18 PM

I’d ask what you’re babbling about, but it’s not like you even know.

Jim Treacher on December 7, 2009 at 5:00 AM

McCain faced a similar question regarding his citizenship after he won the nomination. I believe he was born in Panama (?) to a Navy family stationed outside the US. I seem to recall him taking his birth certificate wherever he needed to take it and have his citizenship verified. He produced it, everyone shut up shortly thereafter. Constitutionally speaking, I’d like the question put to bed once and for all. However the more disturbing factor (for me at least) regarding the Prez is whether or not he’s still Muslim. And I think I have my answer there: You convert to Christianity you 1) change your name, and 2) run for your life. He changed his name once from Barry Soetero to his current name. He hasn’t run for his life. I cannot speak for the rest of the female population in America, but I am not ready to wear a burqa nor do I consider walking 10 paces behind my husband or sitting in the back seat of our car behind my son desirable. So I’d like to have SOME question answered. But then you know what they say about people in hell and ice water–they don’t get much of it.

Driefromseattle on December 7, 2009 at 5:26 AM

Did Matthews say the issue is whether the “president is here illegally?” That isn’t the issue. The issue is whether he meets the constitutional requirements of a natural born citizen.

njpat on December 7, 2009 at 8:23 AM

Birtherism is a disaster, because it misses the key points of Obama’s birth; Obama Sr. did NOT play a very active role. Obama’s mother Ann Dunham was a communist student who saw “the third world” as vanguard of the revolution and hooked up with the first African socialist she could find.

Obama Sr. had no reason to bring his Hawaiian girlfriend home to Kenya to meet his wife and kids! Obama Sr. disappeared from Dunham and little Barry’s life after six months, came back once when BO was two. Why assume that he’s some kind of patriarch and that everything revolved around Kenya?

modifiedcontent on December 7, 2009 at 9:25 AM

Question
Is a Fullbright scholarship given to US citizens?
No, it is an international exchange program operated by the State Dept.
Did Obama get a Fullbright scholarship?

elclynn on December 5, 2009 at 11:01 AM

No, he didn’t. http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/was-obama-born-in-the-usa/

LODGE4 on December 7, 2009 at 10:38 AM

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