Romney on Huckabee: Unlike some people, I never pardoned anyone

posted at 3:30 pm on December 4, 2009 by Allahpundit

An end o’ the week coup de grace for Huck from his archnemesis. Mitt does defend him, kinda sorta, by noting that Huck said he wouldn’t have commuted Clemmons’s sentence if he knew then what he knows now. But c’mon. Of course he wouldn’t have commuted it knowing that Clemmons would end up killing cops. The question is whether he was right to have commuted it at the time based on the facts available. Huck says yes; Mitt, based on the narrow clemency policy he lays out here, implicitly says no way. In fact, his emphasis on using guidelines so that he wasn’t “swung by, you know, personal impressions of people” is especially stinging given the perennial accusations that Huckabee was a sucker for religious appeals. Pretty harsh:

My conclusion was, if somebody has been convicted by a jury of their peers, and they’ve been prosecuted and the police were able to get the evidence necessary to put them behind bars, why in the world would I step in and reverse that sentence?

King asks the perfect follow-up question: If that’s the policy, why have pardon guidelines at all? Just rubber-stamp every jury sentence and be done with it. Romney’s answer is that you need executive discretion for cases of prosecutorial misconduct or exonerating evidence that comes to light later — but that’s really not true. Both of those issues can be, and often are, raised on appeal. Granted, the governor can move faster than an appellate court, but if Mitt’s willing to defer to the judicial process at the jury level, in theory he should be willing to defer to it all the way. If you believe the system works, let it work. The irony of Huckabee’s position is that he’s correct on the theory of executive clemency — i.e. it’s a check on the judiciary to remedy perceived miscarriages of justice — but he can’t quite accept that the executive is, or should be, checked himself by the potential backlash among voters if he abuses the clemency power. He handed out hundreds of pardons and commutations, then acts mystified when he’s blamed for helping scum like Clemmons go free. Too bad.

Update: Commenters remind me that if Huckabee’s gone too far with clemencies, Mitt may not have gone far enough.



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If the GOP nominates this fool, Romney, they will LOSE, but then again, the GOP hasn’t learned A THING from Reagan, the last Conservative to be nominated.

nelsonknows on December 5, 2009 at 9:02 AM

For me, Romney is like a sprung spring poking through the mattress. But Huckabee is like diving naked into a cactus patch. Entirely different discomfort levels.

SKYFOX on December 5, 2009 at 10:48 AM

What would you do if it really was Romney/Palin?

Bambi on December 5, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Well, Huckabee’s got the Arkansas convict vote all sewn up then.

ddrintn on December 4, 2009 at 11:28 PM

Is that all you have to say?

apacalyps on December 4, 2009 at 11:43 PM

As a response to “the more clemencies the better”, yep.

ddrintn on December 5, 2009 at 11:22 AM

How many people are dead because of his socialized medicine?

MadisonConservative on December 4, 2009 at 3:57 PM

I’d like to see the answer to your own question. Do you have any stats or numbers that show that people have actually died as a result of Romney’s Health Plan?

You’re looking at this all wrong.

Mitt gave the statist morons in the Taxachusetts legislature what they were clamoring for, and now it’s the Commonwealth of Object Lesson. States are supposed to be breeding grounds for ideas good and bad, so that we can apply the good ideas and run screaming from the rest.

Sacrificing a blue state that subjected us to decades of Kennedys and Kerrys for the sake of the rest of the union seems a small price to pay.

sulla on December 4, 2009 at 4:46 PM

People seem to forget that fact when they attack Mitt Romney’s Healthcare plan…

If this is so, I believe this is a false premise. I believe Mitt is as devout as Huck and Sarah. And because of that I challenge the supporters of Mitt to use the same arguments against Sarah not invoking clemency as they have with Huck.

technopeasant on December 5, 2009 at 7:16 AM

Any Huckbot willing to take up that challenge?

Why is Romney a heartless politician but Sarah Palin isn’t even though she didn’t pardon anyone either?

Conservative Samizdat on December 5, 2009 at 1:17 PM

SKYFOX on December 5, 2009 at 10:48 AM

That was beautiful, man.

/claps

ElectricPhase on December 5, 2009 at 1:34 PM

Is it wrong to say I can’t stand either one?

Tim Burton on December 5, 2009 at 2:25 PM

As a response to “the more clemencies the better”, yep.

ddrintn on December 5, 2009 at 11:22 AM

What do you do about the 10,000 people wrongfully convicted of serious crimes each year in the United States? They are sitting in prison right now as you read these words.

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 2:47 PM

Petunia. Where are you? Let’s go for a walk.

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 2:47 PM

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 2:47 PM

You’re right apacalyse, we should forget the whole jury system and appoint “Christian” Kings as our governors who will judge with wisdom and will know who is the innocent ones and who isn’t, because they will have God’s power of discernment…wait, whats that, Huck gave a guilty man clemency…because he has white guilt? You don’t say!

Conservative Voice on December 5, 2009 at 2:52 PM

What do you do about the 10,000 people wrongfully convicted of serious crimes each year in the United States?

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 2:47 PM

Oops, wrong link about wrongful convictions. Here it is. What would you do about all these innocent people in prison, ddrintn?

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Hey, Conservative Voice. Stop being silly and answer the question. What do you do about approx. 10,000 people wrongfully convicted of serious crimes each year in the US? They are in prison right now. Their children are suffering cause they don’t have their mom or dad. If you are Governor and their case came across your desk, what do you do?

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 3:01 PM

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 3:01 PM

I put my faith in the jury system, and as governor I use the power of pardon very sparingly.

This 10000 people crap is about as believable as the number of homeless number people throw around, its meant to impress me, but numbers don’t persuade me. I take each case at a time…AND IN THIS CASE, Uncle Mike the Huckster let his white guilt get the best of him.

Conservative Voice on December 5, 2009 at 3:21 PM

I put my faith in the jury system, and as governor I use the power of pardon very sparingly. This 10000 people crap is about as believable as the number of homeless number people throw around, its meant to impress me, but numbers don’t persuade me.

Conservative Voice on December 5, 2009 at 3:21 PM

Well, I think you are cruel and unreasonable and it’s not something I like saying. It’s a fact that millions of people have been imprisoned for crimes they did not commit. I would not want you in any type of decision making process where children lives and families are involved.

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 3:58 PM

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Um, no offense, your math seems a little off. First you say 10,000 people. now you say millions. Millions implies more than one, so let’s be charitable and say three million. That would mean we’ve been wrongfully imprisoning 10,000 a year for the past three hundred years. Does that seem right to you?

TheQuestion on December 5, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Um, no offense, your math seems a little off. First you say 10,000 people. now you say millions.

TheQuestion on December 5, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Go back and read my post on Tunnel Vision. No offense taken, but you are missing my point. The study estimates 10,000 people are wrongfully convicted of serious crimes each year in the United States — and that is a low estimate. These numbers are for the “most serious crimes.” They don’t include misdomeanors and minor felonies. If you add up all the people with wrongful convictions resulting from error in the court and legal system (ie, eyewitness misidentification) it’s millions of people imprisoned for crimes they did not commit. Millions. OK. Huckabee was doing an excellent job. The more commutations and pardons, the better!

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 4:44 PM

Mmm. Cookies. Gotta go.

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 4:58 PM

wondering why so many people- mistakenly- say huckabee said if he got another opportunity to go thru the same process again that he’d act differently… ‘Huck said he wouldn’t have commuted Clemmons’s sentence if he knew then what he knows now.’ what? how’d anyone get that impresion/idea? huck actually said/says over & over that he’d act the same, that he would commute the sentence; that it’s all about clemmons & multiple subsequent failures of officials within the system to keep him behind bars. of course, by objective logic, this is where this or any other similar criminal actually belonged & deserved to be, at a minimum/for starters. it’s really quite shocking to see so many people miss/misrepresent this major/crucial point. maybe, it’s because so many people imagine it to be so; that if any one of us- that is, anyone with a good appreciation for objective logic- saw how this all played out, if they got another go at it, they’d keep him locked up, if they let it go, the 1st time around. anyway… now, one gets quite the insight into huck, the man & the government official; and, likewise, the people who miss the point/misrepresent something he actually maintains, quite illogically. who is huck & who does huck think, feel, and/or believe he is to be as he is? he missed the mark.

ABLOGMAN on December 5, 2009 at 6:02 PM

*impression

ABLOGMAN on December 5, 2009 at 6:05 PM

Palin agrees with Romney.

Get over it.

scotash on December 5, 2009 at 6:18 PM

Why is Romney a heartless politician but Sarah Palin isn’t even though she didn’t pardon anyone either?

Conservative Samizdat on December 5, 2009 at 1:17 PM

Good point, but totally lost on our hard core friends here.

scotash on December 5, 2009 at 6:25 PM

allahpundit: i’m new at this. i’m wondering how to delete my post; long story, short, i made a mistake with it. any option for this? if so, i’d appreciate a referral to the related info. anyway, please delete my 2 posts in this blog thread; likely, they’re close to this one, and one follows the other. i hereby give you this authority. thank you.

ABLOGMAN on December 5, 2009 at 6:29 PM

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Like I said apacalps, we should just dump the whole judge and jury thing, and go with the “Christian” King, I mean governor, in his wisdom to decide these things right?

Seriously, we aren’t talking about the 10,000 supposedly innocent people ( based on feel good statistics that are pulled out of thin air ), we are talking about 1. And that one, he didn’t base his decision on the case, he based it on his white guilt feelings. He had no proof that the cops or the judge were racist. And in fact this cop killer was NOT among your supposed 10,000…as HE WAS GUILTY.

Conservative Voice on December 5, 2009 at 6:48 PM

Considering that Romney is from the Peoples Republic of Massachuttes it is highly likey that the courts were too soft on crime. Under these conditions the gov. should not commute any sentence.

Arkansas is far more conservative and is probably much harder on crime. It may make more sense for the gov. to get involved there.

The Huckster was far too free with his authority.

As far as I am concerned the Huck is toast and should not even bother to run for office again.

The Rock on December 5, 2009 at 7:24 PM

Gee I hate being ignored!
WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF THE TICKET IS ROMNEY/PALIN? Who would you vote for then, or would you sit home, so we could have 4 more years of the idiot in the white house?

Bambi on December 5, 2009 at 8:07 PM

Palin agrees with Romney.

Get over it.

scotash on December 5, 2009 at 6:18 PM

Palin agrees with what? Definitely not the Socialized and unconstitutional healthcare scheme that Romney sign, nor the two unconstitutional gun bans that Romney signed as MA Governor.

nelsonknows on December 5, 2009 at 8:17 PM

If you GOP locksteppers want to hand the Obamunist 4 more years as Chief scumbag, then support Romney, if you want the Obamunist GONE (that is if the vote isn’t defrauded by ACORN and Obamunist seizing the census) then find a REAL Conservative instead of the same skeezy con artist like Romney.

nelsonknows on December 5, 2009 at 8:22 PM

(Huckabee) didn’t base his decision on the case, he based it on his white guilt feelings.

Conservative Voice on December 5, 2009 at 6:48 PM

Like I told you earlier Conservative Voice, I think you are cruel and unfair. There are thousands and thousands of people imprisoned each year for crimes they did not commit. Your response is that they do not deserve justice. Well, that’s not the kind of society I wanna live in. I am sincere when I tell you that I don’t trust your judgment based on that reason alone. But, you are a Mormon which is more damning evidence that you are easily fooled and a great target for any number of Internet scams. If you believe Joey “the con man” Smith, then you’ll believe anything including the idea that it is fair and just to sentence a 16 year old boy to 108 years for robbery.

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 10:25 PM

I hate being ignored!

Bambi on December 5, 2009 at 8:07 PM

I’m not ignoring you. Are you kidding. I love you. :-)

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF THE TICKET IS ROMNEY/PALIN?

If it was Palin/Romney I’d support the ticket. But, not Romney/Palin.

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 10:47 PM

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 10:25 PM

Again, we are not talking about the so called innocents, we are talking about the cop killer, and Huck has said he gave him clemency based on the fact he was Black and not a middle class white kid. These are Facts.

Now on to the squirrel topic, since you are using typical liberal tactics…oh oh, someone is getting too close to my hero worship, fire anti-messenger missile! On the tens of thousand people, where have I said they don’t deserve Justice? I don’t buy into your premise that that many people are convicted who shouldn’t of been…did they get a FAIR trial? That is all government and society can provide. I must be cutting too close to your hero, the “Christian” King, since you bring up my religion Wow.

Fact, the kid was GUILTY. Fact, Justice said he MUST give 108 years for his crime…that is the LAW, we must be a nation of Laws. Just saying … he’s Black, he’s not a middle class white person, is not Enough to change a court ruling, unless you have proof that his race played a role. Opinions don’t matter, how many people get charged who shouldn’t doesn’t matter…what does matter is Yes or No, was he found guilty? Was the Judge within his power to sentence him 108 years?

Most people would have given Huck a pass, if he kept his mouth shut. Including me. Check back this thread, I said Romney should not kick a dead horse and be an arm chair general. But Huck couldn’t just keep quiet, thank goodness, because he gave us another window into his way of thinking…which is great if you are a Paster in a Church, but as an Executor, a nightmare.

Conservative Voice on December 5, 2009 at 11:28 PM

Bambi on December 5, 2009 at 8:07 PM

Personally, between Obama and Romney, Romney…it would be an anti-vote against Obama.

I want someone to vote For. Romney is certainly better, but his gun control and Romneycare keep him a luke warm candidate.

But, we need to stop looking at everything people say in terms of the 2012 election.

Conservative Voice on December 5, 2009 at 11:43 PM

Huck has said he gave him clemency based on the fact he was Black and not a middle class white kid.

Conservative Voice on December 5, 2009 at 11:28 PM

Show Huckabee’s quote to support what you’re saying. His full quote in context.

Justice said he MUST give 108 years for his crime…that is the LAW, we must be a nation of Laws.

Are you saying that there should be no checks and balances our judicial system?

Opinions don’t matter …what does matter is Yes or No, was he found guilty?

What if an 15 year old girl stole a car and a judge gave her 108 years in prison. Do you think that teenager should serve 108 years in prison?

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 11:45 PM

The Huckster is a fraud and always has been. He’s an open-borders liberal. He is weak on crime and defense.
Romney’s only plus is that he might be better for small businesses in our current recession. Other than that, he’s another open-borders liberal. His “health-care reform” ideas in MASS however, trumps all of his positives.

Both of these guys need to just go away.

shorebird on December 5, 2009 at 11:52 PM

The Huckster is a fraud and always has been.

shorebird on December 5, 2009 at 11:52 PM

The poster shorebird is a fraud and always has been.

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 12:01 AM

Wow! Thanks “apacalyps” on that insightful and probing reply.
Your facts and statistics leave me in awe.

shorebird on December 6, 2009 at 12:11 AM

Show Huckabee’s quote to support what you’re saying. His full quote in context.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/01/AR2009120102601.html?nav=rss_email/components

Are you saying that there should be no checks and balances our judicial system?
Sigh, apacalyps, read my posts in this thread. Start with December 5, 2009 at 6:32 AM.

What if an 15 year old girl stole a car and a judge gave her 108 years in prison. Do you think that teenager should serve 108 years in prison?
Doesn’t matter what I think. If the law is wrong, you shouldn’t use pardon powers to overwrite the law, change the law. You sure like to use all kinds of hypotheticals to excuse Mike’s white guilt.
I will say it again…IF Uncle Mike had proof that the cops or the judge were prejudice based on race, or ability to pay, AND I will add, since he said “middle class” that if he could prove that the kids lawyer is a poor excuse for a defense lawyer…Proof, not “well I think the cops acted stupidly” type thinking.

Conservative Voice on December 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM

Conservative Voice on December 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM

I’m not chasing your rabbit. I don’t care about the link and video. You said, “Huck has said he gave him clemency based on the fact he was Black and not a middle class white kid.” Post Huckabee’s full quote here to support what you are saying.

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 12:26 AM

Conservative Voice on December 6, 2009 at 12:18 AM

Conservative Voice, I didn’t respond to the rest of your post because you are a disturbed person. And I’m getting fed up with you. I asked you what if an 15 year old girl stole a car and a judge gave her 108 years in prison. Do you think that teenager should serve 108 years in prison? And you said,

“Doesn’t matter what I think. If the law is wrong, you shouldn’t use pardon powers to overwrite the law, change the law.”

That is not the answer of a sane individual. That bolshevik.

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 12:30 AM

I’m not chasing your rabbit. I don’t care about the link and video. You said, “Huck has said he gave him clemency based on the fact he was Black and not a middle class white kid.” Post Huckabee’s full quote here to support what you are saying.

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 12:26 AM

THE LINK IS THE FULL QUOTE!!!!!!

Conservative Voice on December 6, 2009 at 12:35 AM

It is so obvious. The Huckster IS pro-life and anti-gay marriage, so he goes WAY over the top to support liberal causes as a balance. He is just another politician pandering just as hard as he can pander.

shorebird on December 6, 2009 at 12:41 AM

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 12:30 AM

No it is an answer of a person who believes in the rule of law…and that we have a system in place to fix bad laws. Its real simple.
We have one branch who writes laws
We have another branch who executes the laws
We have a third branch who Judges people who BREAK THE LAW

And within each of these there are balances of power to make double sure that a person receives a FAIR trial.

Its not based on feelings, or hypotheticals, or at least it shouldn’t. It is the law, PERIOD. THE LAW IS MEANT TO BE JUST, and that is it…we are all equal UNDER THE LAW. As soon as you play the PC game that Blacks get one kind of justice and whites another…then we are no longer equals under the law. This is the VERY FOUNDATION our country is based on…it has nothing to do with stupid polls, or feel goods, or what not, if we don’t treat the law with absolute respect, then ALL LAWS ARE MEANINGLESS…AND WE LIVE UNDER THE WHIM OF DICTATORS.

NOW I AM DONE WITH YOU, YOU HAVE PROVEN YOURSELF UNWORTHY OF MY TIME.

Conservative Voice on December 6, 2009 at 12:43 AM

THE LINK IS THE FULL QUOTE!!!!!!

Conservative Voice on December 6, 2009 at 12:35 AM

Conservative Voice, to insult my intelligence like you do is generally disrespectful and contemptuous. I think we’ve gone about as far as we’re gonna go in our conversation. You’re not an honest debater. You talk in circles and you play stupid word games. Really, it doesn’t matter how many times that I show that you are wrong, you have no interest in learning the truth — you will only lie to cover your mistakes. And to debate sombody like that is like banging your head against a wall. So when you debate someone that refuses to see even the most simple of stuff, there’s a very good chance you are debating a person without moral scruples. And you can never win a debate with a person like that. The Bible calls them reprobates. Don’t send me messages anymore. “Thou lovest evil more than good; and lying rather than to speak righteousness.” Psalm 52:3

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 1:03 AM

NOW I AM DONE WITH YOU

Conservative Voice on December 6, 2009 at 12:43 AM

Good. Keep your word and don’t message me. Thank you.

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 1:03 AM

NOW I AM DONE WITH YOU, YOU HAVE PROVEN YOURSELF UNWORTHY OF MY TIME.

Conservative Voice on December 6, 2009 at 12:43 AM

I’ve heard it all before, lol. This is another one of your cons. But, I am so glad you posted this. I am saving this message. Believe me, you won’t get another message from me. You don’t desire righteousness. The Bible says you drink iniquity like water. You love the darkness. You hate the light. You drink iniquity like water. So keep your word because it’s on record. Don’t message me. And thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 1:21 AM

shorebird on December 6, 2009 at 12:41 AM

whats seems obvious is apacalyps is either Huckabee or has his holy picture on his wall to pray to.

Conservative Voice on December 6, 2009 at 2:30 AM

Larry King? Heh indeed.

mike_NC9 on December 6, 2009 at 9:36 AM

I’ve heard it all before, lol. This is another one of your cons. But, I am so glad you posted this. I am saving this message. Believe me, you won’t get another message from me. You don’t desire righteousness. The Bible says you drink iniquity like water. You love the darkness. You hate the light. You drink iniquity like water. So keep your word because it’s on record. Don’t message me. And thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 1:21 AM

I know apacalyps. Your right. It struck me as extraordinarily pathetic too when a person won’t admit that it is excessive to sentence a 15 year old girl to a 108 year sentence for stealing a car. Hate messes with the mind.

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 12:37 PM

But, you are a Mormon which is more damning evidence that you are easily fooled and a great target for any number of Internet scams. If you believe Joey “the con man” Smith, then you’ll believe anything including the idea that it is fair and just to sentence a 16 year old boy to 108 years for robbery.

apacalyps on December 5, 2009 at 10:25 PM

You might think that believing in the LDS faith makes you stupid enough to fall for INTERNET scams but there’s a well established history of Christians falling for scams long before the Internet was established and long before Mormonism ever started.

There are alot of people who aren’t Mormon who believe that it was fair for a violent and criminal 16 year old to receive a 108 year sentence for various crimes he was charged with.

Even the majority of Christians believe that Clemmons was justly punished.

Clearly, if the MAJORITY of people, regardless of faith, believe Clemmons received a fair sentence, then I wouldn’t be questioning their intelligence.

However, I would be questioning the intelligence of “Christians” like apacalyps and Mike Huckabee who are stupid enough to believe that Clemmons was no threat to society, found Jesus in prison and that his sentence was unfair.

Conservative Samizdat on December 6, 2009 at 1:55 PM

hey apocalpse-do you realize what an idiot you are to call a mormon foolish because he believes something you find illogical? tell me, how old do you think the earth is? Your answer reveals you to be a fool the the majority of Americans. You as a “Christian” believe things that are foolishness to the majority of the world. Shall we dismiss you as a voter because of that? yet you and so many dolts on this site dismiss mormons politically because you find their doctrine foolish. I doubt you have the self awareness needed to see that, but hopefully other religious folks OF GOOD FAITH will see your ignorance and realize the founders of our nation (who jerkwads like apocalypse would dismiss from politics due to their lack of christian orthodoxy) were exactly right to establish article 6 in our constitution.

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 5:20 PM

WSo do tell apocolypse- how old is the earth? Hmmm? I believe Allahpundit and other atheists would find you to be a great fool for believing the earth was created in 6 days. Shall we silence you?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 5:23 PM

Conservative Samizdat on December 6, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Keep your promise and don’t message me.

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 6:26 PM

Conservative Voice on December 6, 2009 at 12:35 AM

To add I find it funny that the one who prays to Huckabee is so opposed to clicking on the link he asked for, when several times in this thread he kept trying to get people to click on his link.

Find it absolutely hilarious that he thinks I am Conservative Samizdat.

And to top off the comedy routine, his curse “You don’t desire righteousness. The Bible says you drink iniquity like water. You love the darkness. You hate the light. You drink iniquity like water.” Really? where in the Bible does it say my name? Curse me all you want…though I would be a bit careful using God’s name in cursing me.

What a joke.

Conservative Voice on December 6, 2009 at 6:47 PM

c’mon, apcalypse, what do you say? care to use reason to defend your lame-ass position? Any other huckabee goons out there care to defend why what a person believes doctrinally has anything to do with their ability to lead politically? I thought not. so take your sunday school crap elsewhere, and leave it outside the ballot box.

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 8:38 PM

the thing that seems to motivate these romney haters is either true stupidity (i just cant vote for a person who goes to any church that i disagree with) or the envious( oh he’s just too smooth, his kids didn’t serve, he’s too perfect, silver spoon, blah blah blah). If you disagree with him on policy or specific act, fair enough. But when I see someone ragging over something trivial (he put a dog carrier on his car) your ignorance is manifest. Howzabout pardoning your kid who tortures and hangs dogs for kicks? Or griping about illegals working for a company he hired. Care to hold Sarah Palin’s history under the same scrutiny? You do that and we get no candidate at all.

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 8:44 PM

Tell me, how old do you think the earth is?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 5:20 PM

Sure. I believe about 6,000 years ago God created the heavens and the earth. 4,400 years ago there was a word-wide flood that destroyed the world and dropped everybody’s property value to zero. 2,000 years ago Jesus came, died on the cross, and here we are today — here we are today waiting for the Lord to come back in about 5 minutes. The Bible timeline not only explains how the dinosaurs died, but how so many fossils were preserved. Massive amounts of mud, rock, and water covering you instantly would result in a fossil. That’s why we find so many big densely packed fossil graveyards all over the world, and marine fossils at the tops of practically every major mountain range. That is evidence of a worldwide flood. All over the world petrified trees like this one are found standing up connecting different rock layers. Here we’ve been teaching the kids for years these layers are different ages and yet thousands of petrified trees have been found in the vertical position. It’s not common sense to say the layers are different ages if you have petrified trees connecting them all. There are thousands of these. So when someone tells me these layers are different ages I just say, “I’m sorry. I disagree.” And this is what all of the evolution theory is based on. This geologic collumn simply does not exist. Hope that answers your question. God gives us very good details about the flood and there is evidence for it all over the world.

“Whereby the world then was, being overflowed with water perished.” 2 Peter 3:3-6

Your answer reveals you to be a fool the the majority of Americans.

Majority opinion means nothing. It used to be that 100 percent of the scientific community thought that the earth was flat. The majority thinking something is right doesn’t make it so. Only God is right all the time.

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 8:50 PM

Shall we silence you?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 5:23 PM

Come on. Bring it. How old do you believe the earth is?

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 8:52 PM

So a person like you should be taken seriously about judging romney? Hysterical. Your post is completely unreasonable. No person who uses reason alone would write what you just wrote. What you wrote is not based on thinking at all, but faith. So you truly believe that, you act without reason. So who the hell are you to say romney is foolish because he believes what you dont? In all honesty can you see the problem with your way of thinking?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 8:56 PM

MAJORITY OPINION MEANS A HELL OF A LOT IN A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC- THAT’S THE DAMN POINT. Can you not see why Christ said render unto cesear what is cesears andunto God what is God’s? Are you so far gone you don’t see what it means to be an American?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 8:59 PM

Are you going to answer my question ballard or are you another mental case like Conservative Voice?

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 9:02 PM

And for how old the earth is, I have no idea. Folks like you say 6000 yrs, but that doesnt agree with what evidence says. So when I run into God I’ll ask Him, but until then I will teach my kids to use their GOD GIVEN BRAINS to seek the truth as they find it. And I sure as hell wont teach those in a secular setting faith dressed up as science, and I wont base political judgements on where someone goes to church. For the good of the republic, I suggest you do the same. Howd church going Jimmy Carter work out for us? He’s a God fearing baptist isnt he?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:03 PM

So I answered yours, you answer- how did voting for a good baptist like Carter work out for America?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:04 PM

How do you explain thousands and thousands of petrified trees standing up connecting different rock layers?

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 9:04 PM

Oh dear. really? Now your going to debate how old the earth is? You really dont get a thing I just said- render unto cesear ring any bells? Article 6 of the constitution mean a thing to you? What about answering a simple question- HOW DID A GOOD BAPTIST MAN LIKE CARTER WORK FOR AMERICA?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:08 PM

come on type faster on that faith-run keyboard…

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:09 PM

So I answered yours, you answer- how did voting for a good baptist like Carter work out for America?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:04 PM

Carter is not a Christian. He is a anti-semitic liberal phony so don’t blame real Christians for that devil.

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 9:10 PM

Just that one question- how did voting for a man who believes everything you do work out for the USA?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:11 PM

MAJORITY OPINION MEANS A HELL OF A LOT IN A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC- THAT’S THE DAMN POINT.

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 8:59 PM

That wasn’t your point.

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 9:11 PM

Carter not a christian? Are you functionally retarded? He says he was saved. He’s a baptist! He loves Jesus! Better yet, who are you to judge his heart? He and Mike Huckabee preach the Holy Bible! So voting for him would be good, right?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:13 PM

So I will just vote “Baptist” at the ballot box, right? Hey, that worked great with Bill Clinton too! He carried his bible all over the place!

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:15 PM

So lets say the next election, Romney gets the nomination- and Barack Obama, more of a christian than romney, gets your vote, right?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:17 PM

Carter not a christian? Are you functionally retarded? He says he was saved.

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:13 PM

We are not going to continue this discussion. I don’t debate fools who don’t listen. Read your Bible. Jesus said, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21). Learn what that passage means. Hint: Real Christians are doing the right thing. Bye.

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 9:17 PM

“The wicked flee when none persue but the righteous are bold as a lion!” stupid and chicken to boot! Entering into heaven and voting are 2 different things, and thanks to morons like you, all someone has to do to get elected is go to your church! Like Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinto, and Barak Obama! Thanks! I thought that the

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:20 PM

Enjoy the hell on earth your ilk have given us.

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:21 PM

So now that apocalypse has taken her toys and gone home, anyone care to debate the candidates using reason?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:28 PM

by the way apocalypse, I do believe I know the Bible a wee bit better that you

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:29 PM

and I’m smarter than you too…..

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:30 PM

as for being a better christian, I beleive I’ll leave that up to God, not you

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:31 PM

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 9:29 PM

Maybe so, but she’ll just make up scripture and turn you into a demon of darkness…lol

Conservative Voice on December 6, 2009 at 10:00 PM

too bad she chickened out, we were just getting to see the apocalypse. See I thought christians were bold and fearless (as perfect love casteth out all fear)

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 10:34 PM

Pinky and the Brain plotting, lol.

apacalyps on December 6, 2009 at 11:05 PM

thats the best you’ve got? sad

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 11:44 PM

so much for your christian values, cant even defend your beliefs. pray God for a little humility and wisdom next time.

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 11:45 PM

by the way, I’m pretty sure romney falls more in the “doeth the will of my father” than Huckabee who sure says “Lord, Lord” alot. Funny, that.

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 11:47 PM

Not so fun to be judged as not christian, is it?

drballard on December 6, 2009 at 11:47 PM

So we are trying to find a candidate who will take O out of office in 2012, Huckabee possibly shooting himself in the foot with some of the electorate leaving who knows whom else to run, meanwhile O and his cronies are moving us ever closer toward a descent to the STONE AGE and you morons get involved in a debate over the age of the earth and start a pissing contest using scripture!! Oh my dear God in Heaven! You brag, DrBallard, about your great Biblical knowledge. You also refute the exceptions to the rules of evolution Apocalyps brought to your attention. I’ve said this many times: if you present a theory as scientific fact, then later find exceptions to that scientific fact, that theory/fact is wrong! As in massaged global tempurature readings as discovered through the UK freedom of information act regarding the theory of global warming, there are holes in the THEORY of evolution. Science is not settle on a LOT of things! Science is merely bringing up more and more questions. So drop it! drballard: grow into adulthood! apocalyps: don’t argue with him anymore. He’s really touchy about religion which may mean he’s insecure about his status. Pray for him.

Driefromseattle on December 7, 2009 at 6:01 AM

do either of you even understand the point im making? Judging a politician is foolish- IE carter, clinton and obama all are “christians” as you describe them. Yet you’re ready to send another idiot to the white house based on what church he goes to. And im not refuting her arguments on the age of the earth, im simply pointing out that she came to her belief on faith, not evidence. Did she use the “evidence” cited to come to her belief, or to justify what she already believed from church? My point is dont dismiss a qualified candidate because where he goes to church

drballard on December 7, 2009 at 8:33 AM

sorry, opening arguement is “judgeing a politition based on his religion is foolish”

drballard on December 7, 2009 at 8:35 AM

by the way driefromseattle, pray for our country,. not me.

drballard on December 7, 2009 at 8:37 AM

not touchy on religion, unless a fascist like you wishes to overturn the constitution based on how you interpret the Bible.

drballard on December 7, 2009 at 9:31 AM

So drop it! drballard: grow into adulthood! apocalyps: don’t argue with him anymore. He’s really touchy about religion which may mean he’s insecure about his status. Pray for him.

Driefromseattle on December 7, 2009 at 6:01 AM

Wise words, Driefromseattle.

apacalyps on December 8, 2009 at 12:23 AM

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