Australian Senate blocks cap-and-trade system

posted at 11:36 am on December 2, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The big fight in the anthropogenic global warming debate took place yesterday Down Under, where the Australian Senate had been expected to pass a cap-and-trade system backed by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.  The bill created a leadership fight in the opposition, though, and the bill died after the new leader of the Senate Liberals successfully torpedoed it.  That leaves Rudd unexpectedly empty-handed on his way to Copenhagen:

Australia’s Parliament defeated legislation to set up a greenhouse gas emissions trading system on Wednesday, throwing a central plank of the government’s plans to combat global warming into disarray.

The Senate, where Prime Minister Kevin Rudd’s government does not hold a majority, rejected his administration’s proposal for Australia to become one of the first countries to install a so-called cap-and-trade system to slash the amount of heat-trapping pollution that industries pump into the air.

The 41-33 vote followed a tumultuous debate in which the conservative main opposition party at first agreed to support a version of the government’s bill, then dramatically dumped its leader and switched sides after bitter divisions erupted within the party.

Rudd had wanted the legislation passed before he attends next week’s U.N. summit on climate change in Copenhagen so he could portray Australia as a world leader on the issue.

Ahead of the issue?  More like behind the curve.  The AGW movement has stumbled badly this past week, and this just adds to its woes.  The news reports do not detail how much of the debate centered on the exposure of chicanery at East Anglia’s CRU and the AGW establishment, but the point seems clear.  Rudd expected to have this bill in hand at Copenhagen, and now he may have to call an election on its failure — if he has the nerve to try it.

Australia may not be one of the world’s major producers of “greenhouse gases” as a nation, but on a per-capita basis, they are.  Furthermore, Australia is a net exporter of coal, which means a cap-and-trade system poses serious risk to their economic growth.  With that in mind, asking Aussies to deliberately kneecap themselves while the UEA-CRU e-mails show all sorts of academic malfeasance in their argument for the need of these extreme measures is not just unreasonable, it’s completely irresponsible.

The same is true here in the US.  AGW advocates demand either tax schemes, cap-and-trade systems, or EPA regulation of a gas that naturally occurs in the air — and that provides life to vegetation– on the basis of seriously flawed scientific models that these e-mails now largely discredit.  Until AGW advocates have clean, transparent data, with replicable studies and predictions that actually match the real-world conditions that follow — none of which has been true to this point — the US and the rest of the industrialized world should refuse to commit economic seppuku, just as Australia’s Senate did yesterday.

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Comment pages: 1 2

Gore should be shaking in his boots…but his boots can’t afford the $1,200…

right2bright on December 2, 2009 at 11:38 AM

Good for the Aussies!

beachgirlusa on December 2, 2009 at 11:39 AM

There is a silver lining, after all.

Obama’s going to look like a fool going to Copenhagen. I hope reps from Australia call him out on it.

Remind me again why liberals say conservatives are anti-science? When it’s liberals who are contriving science for political purposes?

englishqueen01 on December 2, 2009 at 11:39 AM

Common sense strikes Australia! Good on ya’ mates!

fbcmusicman on December 2, 2009 at 11:40 AM

anthropogenic hysteria hardest hit.

the_nile on December 2, 2009 at 11:40 AM

We are in a critical phase here.

We need more emails/memos etc… leaked to the media.

From universities, think-tanks, activists..whatever.

Now is the time to open the flood-gates. Anyone with “access” to info or data that shows deceit, should release it.

artist on December 2, 2009 at 11:41 AM

Workers of the world, unite! Oh, wait a minute,..

a capella on December 2, 2009 at 11:42 AM

Crap-and-betrayed is all but dead here in the US as well. The Senate will never get the votes for it.

Doughboy on December 2, 2009 at 11:42 AM

…so he [PM Rudd] could portray Australia as a world leader on the issue.

The irony is that by virtue of their vote in the Senate, they really are a world leader on the issue. Just not in the direction the AGW scammers want, but leadership is doing what is right, not what is fashionable. Congratulations to all Aussies out there.

jwolf on December 2, 2009 at 11:43 AM

This is great. Down Under has been a bastion of Liberalism ever since they banned handguns. After their crime rate exploded, reasonable people have been creeping into Government. This entire crisis is a Lefty construction and as it falls we can help tie it to the Liberals to make sure it falls on top of them.

GunRunner on December 2, 2009 at 11:44 AM

What’s upside down is right side up.

Shy Guy on December 2, 2009 at 11:44 AM

…fool me twice, shame on me.

RBMN on December 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM

I like Australians.

ncborn on December 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM

Australia’s vote – That’s a peace prize!

LASue on December 2, 2009 at 11:46 AM

Don’t worry Iran won’t be there to judge you too harshly.

nolapol on December 2, 2009 at 11:47 AM

Climate Change Minister Sen. Penny Wong accused the opposition members who voted the bill down of being climate change deniers out of step with the world.

“This is about doing our bit as part of a global agreement, this is about responding to what is a global challenge,” Wong said.

It appears that Ms. Wong is a reality denier.

tru2tx on December 2, 2009 at 11:49 AM

I follow the GW debate and to say that the pro AGW has blown a gasket is an understatement. Some forums have banned talking about the fraud and some are posting everything from “We’re all going to die!” to Antarctica has lost 40% of it’s ice cap and is 11 degrees warmer articles.

It would be interesting to know if the fraud played a part in this. I figured that the WSJ article would open the flood gates and the the MSM would no longer be able to spike the story. Maybe it has.

One thing apparent is that the pro AGW cult is circling the wagons and is starting to figure ways to throw East Anglia’s CRU under the bus.

I expect that the poorer up and coming nations to really cause a ruckus at Copenhagen.

RagTag on December 2, 2009 at 11:50 AM

Some great links on Drudge at the moment:

PAPER: CLIMATE CHANGE ‘FRAUD’…
CLIMATEGATE: Scientist at center of e-mail controversy to step down…
Penn State Professor also under investigation…
Inhofe Asks Boxer to Probe Potential Scientific ‘Conspiracy’…
Australia’s Parliament defeats global warming bill…
‘It’s all unravelling now’…
North Texas Wakes to Big Snowflakes…

mudskipper on December 2, 2009 at 11:53 AM

It’s nice to see some people still have the instincts of self-preservation over PC bullsh!t.

Monica on December 2, 2009 at 11:53 AM

Remind me again why liberals say conservatives are anti-science? When it’s liberals who are contriving science for political purposes?

englishqueen01 on December 2, 2009 at 11:39 AM

Well they are from a liberal perspective. Conservatives expect honesty and non political science while liberals think of science as just another tool for political purposes and facts are completely irrelevant.

RagTag on December 2, 2009 at 11:54 AM

Lots and lots of coal in everyone’s stocking this Christmas!

WashJeff on December 2, 2009 at 11:54 AM

Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!

May this be the first snowflake that begins the avalanche which destroys and smothers global warming insanity!

freeus on December 2, 2009 at 11:54 AM

“Advance, Australia Fair” now has new meaning. Good on ya!

If only Canada’s politicians were as clear. Mr. Harper has done an excellent job at delaying “climate change” but has not yet found the ability to destroy it once and for all. I hope that he does.

KillerKane on December 2, 2009 at 11:55 AM

Queue up Waltzing Matilda.

WashJeff on December 2, 2009 at 11:56 AM

I think Australia is the only country left with any courage and intelligence. They are not going to buckle under all these onerous regulations that would bankrupt their country. They are kinda like America used to be. They are looking better all the time when it gets too bad here.

theaddora on December 2, 2009 at 11:56 AM

Sic Semper Tyrannis

ExpressoBold on December 2, 2009 at 11:58 AM

AGW is real because we say so and WANT it to be real. We’re making community-based reality here. Butt out, wingnuts.

Even though, you know, it isn’t.

- the left

Good Lt on December 2, 2009 at 11:59 AM

RagTag on December 2, 2009 at 11:50 AM

Yup, those poorer countries want the money that they have been promised…

d1carter on December 2, 2009 at 11:59 AM

Note to self… Australia might be where Galt lives…

beatcanvas on December 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM

ay mate, lukes lyke the land down unda is luking a might nice to re-locayte meself if thyngs go a bit rawnchy up hea in the mothaland.

katy on December 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM

Australia may not be one of the world’s major producers of “greenhouse gases” as a nation, but on a per-capita basis, they are.

21 million people out of 6.6 billion. Give me a break.

MamaAJ on December 2, 2009 at 12:02 PM

mudskipper on December 2, 2009 at 11:58 AM

Great news. Once the lawsuits start, these fraudsters will fold up their tents…quickly.

LASue on December 2, 2009 at 12:04 PM

My understanding is that 5 members of their upper house resigned rather than support a carbon tax.

ABC news reports that five frontbenchers from Australia’s opposition Liberal party have resigned their portfolios rather than follow their leader Malcolm Turnbull in voting with Kevin Rudd’s Government on a new Emissions Trading Scheme

hawksruleva on December 2, 2009 at 12:05 PM

In Pythonesque fake Aussie accent:
Australia, Australia, Australia.
We love you, Amen.

SKYFOX on December 2, 2009 at 12:05 PM

ay mate, lukes lyke the land down unda is luking a might nice to re-locayte meself if thyngs go a bit rawnchy up hea in the mothaland.

katy on December 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM

The problem is that it seems like everything wants to kill you down there. I’ve been told some pretty nasty stories from people that live or have lived there. No swimming in ponds, no walking barefoot outside especially at night and a host of other scare stories.

RagTag on December 2, 2009 at 12:06 PM

The problem is that it seems like everything wants to kill you down there. I’ve been told some pretty nasty stories from people that live or have lived there. No swimming in ponds, no walking barefoot outside especially at night and a host of other scare stories.

RagTag on December 2, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Especially in Mordor.

Jerricho68 on December 2, 2009 at 12:08 PM

Delingpole does a great job of keeping up with the latest developments around Climategate. I like his report on the Denmark’s CO2 trading fraud, right on the eve of Copenhagen…

hawksruleva on December 2, 2009 at 12:09 PM

No swimming in ponds, no walking barefoot outside especially at night and a host of other scare stories.

RagTag on December 2, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Hummm…. well with the way things are going here, we may not be able to do the same things. But not because of giant bugs and crocs. It will be cause big brother has either made it illegal or taxed it.

I’d rather be eaten by a croc than killed by Obamacare…

;)

katy on December 2, 2009 at 12:09 PM

That scream you heard was from “starfleetdouche” asking his mommy to make the mean people stop telling the truth about his pet cause.

PimFortuynsGhost on December 2, 2009 at 12:09 PM

This is funny. They’ve bought in hook, line, and sinker GW but they are not suicidal.

Blake on December 2, 2009 at 12:10 PM

My understanding is that 5 members of their upper house resigned rather than support a carbon tax.
hawksruleva on December 2, 2009 at 12:05 PM

If only we could get so lucky.

Knucklehead on December 2, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Let’s play a game.

Where in the World is Al Gore and his Noble Peace Prize?

upinak on December 2, 2009 at 12:11 PM

I like his report on the Denmark’s CO2 trading fraud, right on the eve of Copenhagen…

hawksruleva on December 2, 2009 at 12:09 PM

I would like to hear more on that- designed by Enron- why wasn’t that shut down after the Enron implosion?

journeyintothewhirlwind on December 2, 2009 at 12:13 PM

FU, we have the votes.

/obama343

LibTired on December 2, 2009 at 12:13 PM

The Left harped for years about the US not finding WMDs in Iraq. Where is the American Left now? Only the Brits and Aussies seem to be on top of this scandal and its ramifications.

Liam on December 2, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Mr Gore, please call your office.

MikeA on December 2, 2009 at 12:15 PM

Danes caught fiddling their carbon credits. (Hat tip: Philip Stott) Carbon trading is the Emperor’s New Clothes of international finance. It was invented by none other than Ken Lay, whose Enron would currently be one of the prime beneficiaries in the global alternative energy market, if it hadn’t been shown to be (nearly) as fraudulent as the current AGW scam. It is a licence to fleece, cheat and rob. Still, jolly embarrassing for the Danes to get caught red handed, what with their hosting a conference shortly in which the world’s leaders will try, straight-faced, to persuade us that carbon emissions trading is the only viable way of defeating ManBearPig.

journeyintothewhirlwind on December 2, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., reminded the president of his limits in a letter he sent to the White House last week after Obama announced he would travel to Copenhagen and lay out America’s goals for cutting greenhouse gas emissions by 17 percent from 2005 levels by 2020.

“I would like to express my concern regarding reports that the administration may believe it has the unilateral power to commit the government of the United States to certain standards that may be agreed upon (in Denmark). … The phrase ‘politically binding’ has been used,” Webb wrote. “As you well know from your time in the Senate, only specific legislation agreed upon in the Congress, or a treaty ratified by the Senate, could actually create such a commitment on behalf of our country.”

FNC

artist on December 2, 2009 at 12:17 PM

***
Love them Aussies!
***
John Bibb
***

rocketman on December 2, 2009 at 12:17 PM

artist on December 2, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Good for Webb.

katy on December 2, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Will this be enough for this mess to get more press here?

Cindy Munford on December 2, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Aussie, Aussie, Aussie!
Oi, Oi, Oi!

Drink

Cheers!

Doorgunner on December 2, 2009 at 12:26 PM

That leaves Rudd unexpectedly empty-handed on his way to Copenhagen

He’ll have time for shopping, or something.

n0doz on December 2, 2009 at 12:27 PM

It appears that Ms. Wong is a reality denierWong.

tru2tx on December 2, 2009 at 11:49 AM

I know. Racist.

Johan Klaus on December 2, 2009 at 12:29 PM

Maybe someone needs to remind Webb (and the rest of the people who think O! can’t do this unilaterally): The Supreme Court has already ruled the EPA can regulate CO2, no further votes needed.

SDN on December 2, 2009 at 12:30 PM

No swimming in ponds, no walking barefoot outside especially at night and a host of other scare stories.

RagTag on December 2, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Sounds like Texas. Everything bites, stings, cuts or otherwise infringes on comfort. Then we bar-b-q it.

DanMan on December 2, 2009 at 12:30 PM

MamaAJ, do you know what per capita means? Obviously not.

SDN on December 2, 2009 at 12:32 PM

Australian Senate blocks cap-and-trade system

Sanity prevails.

Johan Klaus on December 2, 2009 at 12:32 PM

check out jon stewarts vid on ClimateGate. It’s pretty funny on youtube. sorry no linky,

ted c on December 2, 2009 at 12:32 PM

In Pythonesque fake Aussie accent:
Australia, Australia, Australia.
We love you, Amen.

SKYFOX on December 2, 2009 at 12:05 PM

This here’s the wattle,
the emblem of our land.
You can stick it in a bottle.
You can hold it in your hand.
AMEN!!

:)

tickleddragon on December 2, 2009 at 12:32 PM

The Aussies I work with here are a pretty Conservative lot. So is an Irishman who works the overseas car and Harley sales through AAFES. The Irish fellow said there are still a lot of Conservatives out there in Europe and other parts of the world and that the USA was really disappointing them. Not in a bad way like you think, but he said they honestly looked to us to maintain a Conservative stronghold until they were able to move their nations back in a Conservative direction.

And I think he’s right.

hawkdriver on December 2, 2009 at 12:35 PM

Jon Stewart’s scriptwriters come up with a good one:

via Newsbusters

Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. OH. OH the irony.

mudskipper on December 2, 2009 at 12:37 PM

The phrase ‘politically binding’ has been used,” Webb wrote. “As you well know from your time in the Senate, only specific legislation agreed upon in the Congress, or a treaty ratified by the Senate, could actually create such a commitment on behalf of our country.”

FNC

artist on December 2, 2009 at 12:17 PM

There is a distinction between politically binding and legally binding. Unfortunately, Obama can make certain political commitments on his own. These are not binding in the legal sense, rather they are “moral” political commitments that everyone understands is only a commitment of the present administration to do what it can to implement that obligation. Webb is correct that as a legally binding matter, he cannot do anything without legislation. If course, if he pushes the boundaries with an executive order of questionable authority . . .

Firefly_76 on December 2, 2009 at 12:39 PM

And I do hope they let Comrade Zero have it speaking in their native “Australian” language…

Fuzzlenutter on December 2, 2009 at 12:39 PM

And now Denmark’s Cap-&-Trade exchange is showing BILLIONS of dollars in Fraud.

Perfect timing for the Copenhagen Hopenchangen scamfest.

barnone on December 2, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Pretty soon this story will have to be covered by the LSM because the WHOLE fah king world will be covering it and the US media will be losers again in reporting news. I get sofa king mad at this media and the way they play politics with the news. Good thing at least FOX covers it or we would be mushrooms in the dark. I am starting to think the media needs to be eradicated somehow and replaced by people that want truth.

royzer on December 2, 2009 at 12:41 PM

Throw another briquette on the barbie!

tmitsss on December 2, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Not one email or file has been denounced as fake! tic tic tic.

tmitsss on December 2, 2009 at 12:48 PM

Excellent summation here

Schadenfreude on December 2, 2009 at 12:49 PM

During an appearance on NBC’s Tonight show Nov. 12, former Vice President Al Gore told host Conan O’Brien geothermal energy is a promising alternative to fossil fuels because “the interior of the earth is extremely hot, several million degrees, and the crust of the earth is hot.”

The temperature at the earth’s core has been estimated at between 4,000 and 6,000 degrees Celsius. As John Derbyshire of National Review noted, “if the temperature anywhere inside the earth were ‘several million degrees,’ we’d be a star.”

Can we create an ALGORateurism soon Ed?

Dr. Jones and his global warming alarmist colleagues have a fundamental problem: The planet hasn’t warmed since 1998, and — according to satellite measurements — has cooled significantly in the last two years. The emails indicate how they dealt with it. Blogger Ed Morrissey (Hot Air) summarizes:“Prominent environmental scientists organize a boycott of scientific journals if those journals publish scholarly material from global warming dissidents.
“The scientists then orchestrate attacks on the dissidents because of their lack of scholarly material published in scientific journals.
“The scientists block from the UN’s report on global warming evidence that is harmful to the anthropogenic global warming consensus.
“The scientists, when faced with a Freedom of Information Act request for their correspondence and data, delete the correspondence and data lest it be used against them.
“The scientists fabricate data when their data fails to prove the earth is warming.”

It seems you just can’t surf anywhere on the net without running into this Morrissey character. Of course, according to NYT’s Andrew Revkin, Morrissey’s full of Hot Air by making his data-filled supposition:

There’s much more in the emails, but you won’t read them in the New York Times. Andrew Revkin, who write the Times’ environmental blog, said Friday “the documents appear to have been acquired illegally and contain all manner of private information and statements that were never intended for the public eye, so they won’t be posted here.”

The Times has not hesitated to publish classified information illegally leaded about U.S. intelligence programs. But for Mr. Revkin and others in the news media, protecting global warming hoaxsters from scrutiny apparently is more important than U.S. national security.

(All block quotes can be found at this link)

Rovin on December 2, 2009 at 12:50 PM

Barry doesn’t speak Australian, so he probably is unaware of this development.

Vashta.Nerada on December 2, 2009 at 12:52 PM

Pretty soon this story will have to be covered by the LSM because the WHOLE fah king world will be covering it and the US media will be losers again in reporting news.

I hope you’re right. But they are dug in deep, and what’s more, many of them are also in the position to be begging the WH for bailouts soon. I think it’s going to take one more big launch from the trebuchet to bring down the wall. Maybe another email leak, maybe a few more resignations or firings, maybe a protest speech at Copenhagen, I don’t know what.

Missy on December 2, 2009 at 12:55 PM

There is a distinction between politically binding and legally binding.
Firefly_76 on December 2, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Does “politically binding” even make sense?

MarkTheGreat on December 2, 2009 at 12:57 PM

21 million people out of 6.6 billion. Give me a break.

MamaAJ on December 2, 2009 at 12:02 PM

Farting sheep crisis.

katy the mean old lady on December 2, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Does “politically binding” even make sense?

MarkTheGreat on December 2, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Nope, appears be a kind of bastardization. Something is generally a political commitment or legally binding, and not in between.

Firefly_76 on December 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM

Three cheers for The Land Downunder!

Someone actually has the guts to tell Goracle to shove his Global Warming!

pilamaye on December 2, 2009 at 1:19 PM

Watch somewhere in the near future, Obama will diss Australia, and turn an ally into an enemy.

But for my part….WOOT to Australia!!! :D

capejasmine on December 2, 2009 at 1:21 PM

Excellent newspaper article on the Liberals’ leadership tussle and how a one vote difference in the election for the new leader of the Liberals would likely have produced a different outcome.

Out of such slim margins a great victory can be won.

ya2daup on December 2, 2009 at 1:21 PM

And there was no joy in Ruddville,
Great Kevin has struck out.

Australia IS a world leader on the issue. Leading the world AWAY from a useless CO2 limitation treaty. Go Aussies!

Steve Z on December 2, 2009 at 1:22 PM

“Can’t you hear the thunder? You’d better run, you better take cover.”

Count to 10 on December 2, 2009 at 1:23 PM

My understanding is that 5 members of their upper house resigned rather than support a carbon tax.
hawksruleva on December 2, 2009 at 12:05 PM

They kept their seats. They resigned from their leadership positions in the Liberals’ shadow government. This is what prompted the vote for a new party leader.

ya2daup on December 2, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!!

Oy! Oy! Oy!!

JohnGalt23 on December 2, 2009 at 1:28 PM

The Supreme Court has already ruled the EPA can regulate CO2, no further votes needed.

SDN on December 2, 2009 at 12:30 PM

The supreme court must be using the same job corps scientists that are used by East Anglia

Johan Klaus on December 2, 2009 at 1:29 PM

No swimming in ponds…
RagTag on December 2, 2009 at 12:06 PM

“Strange women lying in ponds is no basis for a system of government…”

ya2daup on December 2, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Barry doesn’t speak Australian…
Vashta.Nerada on December 2, 2009 at 12:52 PM

Nuh-uh! Australian is a merely dialect of Austrian, which he clearly knows about.

ya2daup on December 2, 2009 at 1:31 PM

…But they are dug in deep, and what’s more, many of them are also in the position to be begging the WH for bailouts soon…
Missy on December 2, 2009 at 12:55 PM

That should be the death knell of the MSM. With government money comes government regulation. A truly free press won’t die, but once those Lefties get money, they are suspect by America at-large.

I want the Feds to bail out the MSM, just to prove our point about them that isn’t getting across as it should.

Liam on December 2, 2009 at 1:37 PM

“Can’t you hear the thunder? You’d better run, you better take cover.”

Count to 10 on December 2, 2009

God, forgive me, but I really liked that song. Still have the album.

SKYFOX on December 2, 2009 at 1:37 PM

the enormous AGW airship is crashing down in flames….

oh, the humanity!

DrW on December 2, 2009 at 1:40 PM

My heart did leap until I focused on the words ‘AUSTRALIAN Senate.” What this country desperately needs is two dozen simultaneous heart attacks.

MaiDee on December 2, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Sounds like Texas. Everything bites, stings, cuts or otherwise infringes on comfort. Then we bar-b-q it.

DanMan on December 2, 2009 at 12:30 PM

LOL, here also.

LSUMama on December 2, 2009 at 1:56 PM

From the other thread…

New Zealand Climate Data Shows Clear Evidence Of Fraud

Their neighbors on the Island exposed the fraud.

Kevin in Washington State on December 2, 2009 at 2:06 PM

Lord Monckton releases the definitive report on ClimateGate

2MB PDF

Kevin in Washington State on December 2, 2009 at 2:12 PM

…if [Obama] pushes the boundaries with an executive order of questionable authority…

Firefly_76 on December 2, 2009 at 12:39 PM

I am shocked, shocked that you suspect President Obama (D-Chicago) would do such a thing!

jwolf on December 2, 2009 at 2:18 PM

“Strange women lying in ponds is no basis for a system of government…”

ya2daup on December 2, 2009 at 1:29 PM

I’d take it any day, along with coconuts & shrubbries aplenty if it meant something better than what we’ve got now!

Badger40 on December 2, 2009 at 5:25 PM

Comment pages: 1 2