Open thread: Afghanistan
posted at 7:32 pm on December 1, 2009 by Allahpundit
8 p.m. ET all around the dial. Believe it or not, he was still “tinkering” with his speech (and the troop levels?) as recently as an hour ago, but there is good news to report regarding that timetable. Behold the loophole:
“The 30,000 additional troops that I am announcing tonight will deploy in the first part of 2010 – the fastest pace possible – so that they can target the insurgency and secure key population centers. They will increase our ability to train competent Afghan Security Forces, and to partner with them so that more Afghans can get into the fight. And they will help create the conditions for the United States to transfer responsibility to the Afghans.”
“Because this is an international effort, I have asked that our commitment be joined by contributions from our allies. Some have already provided additional troops, and we are confident that there will be further contributions in the days and weeks ahead. Our friends have fought and bled and died alongside us in Afghanistan. Now, we must come together to end this war successfully. For what’s at stake is not simply a test of NATO’s credibility – what’s at stake is the security of our Allies, and the common security of the world.”
“Taken together, these additional American and international troops will allow us to accelerate handing over responsibility to Afghan forces, and allow us to begin the transfer of our forces out of Afghanistan in July of 2011. Just as we have done in Iraq, we will execute this transition responsibly, taking into account conditions on the ground. We will continue to advise and assist Afghanistan’s Security Forces to ensure that they can succeed over the long haul. But it will be clear to the Afghan government – and, more importantly, to the Afghan people – that they will ultimately be responsible for their own country.”
If the first new troops are cycling in next year and the first old troops are cycling out by July 2011, isn’t that less a three-year commitment than a one-year commitment? Watch to see if he offers any projections for how many troops will be there circa 2012 or 2013; just because withdrawal will begin in 18 months to appease his base doesn’t mean it’ll proceed quickly. Either way, I still don’t see how the timetable helps him politically. He’ll benefit a little from starting the pullout before the next presidential campaign, but if the mission’s failed by then and the Taliban’s advancing on Kabul, pulling out won’t save him.
Something else to watch for: How forcefully will Obama make the moral case for staying? Time’s right that doing so would boost public support, but it would also paint him into a corner insofar as he can’t disavow that logic later if conditions deteriorate. If we’re there to protect Afghan women, how can we leave so long as they continue to be threatened by the Taliban? We can’t, which is why The One won’t do much more than pay lip service to humanitarian concerns. The last thing he wants is to be forced into Hillary-esque jawdroppers like this come 2012.
While we wait, via Gabriel Malor, here’s the White House’s resident comic relief lapsing into total self-parody by once again overusing their favorite self-flattering rhetorical crutch.









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as an aside Ed, I’m proposing BHO giving this truly awful speech at West Point as the Obamaturism of the week
Willie on December 1, 2009 at 10:33 PM
They stood and clapped as he left.
thomasaur on December 1, 2009 at 10:34 PM
I would too lol. BO disgusts me to no end. He can’t even meet the troop requests of his personally appoint commander in the theater. He makes me want to barf.
SG1_Conservative on December 1, 2009 at 10:38 PM
I served under President Ronald Reagan.
Thus I have no idea what it must be like to be in uniform under the command of a disgraceful pansy like Obama.
Any of you Carter or Clinton Vet’s want to weigh in here? LOL.
David2.0 on December 1, 2009 at 10:45 PM
I guess this is a case of ten thousand troops being saved or created?
I’m thinking that next spring The One will announce great military successes in Afghani provinces-that don’t even exist.
Dr. ZhivBlago on December 1, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Oooh. Ronald Reagan just acted like a man (he played one on TV).
Grow Fins on December 1, 2009 at 10:55 PM
I could not watch the lying sack of donkey shite, nor could I click the link. The only thing he could have said that would have piqued my interest would have been…
“Allow me to introduce Gen’s McChrystal and Petraeus. They will provide you a non classified briefing on how the US will win in Afghanistan. They have my complete support.”
Anything other than that is narcissistic blather.
Has hawkdriver made a comment on this thread?
Fighton03 on December 1, 2009 at 10:55 PM
closer than you ever got.
Fighton03 on December 1, 2009 at 10:56 PM
Afghanistan, in the long run, will prove to be the same failure as Iraq will. you cannot export democracy and freedom to Muslims in Muslim-dominated countries….period.
The pool of the jihadists are endlesslessly replenishable by the ranks of willing and able Muslims.
Obama’s biggest mistake tonight was trying to serve two masters at once, hence, pleasing neither.
The traditional definition of enacting a proper war against one’s enemies implies utter destruction and annihilation of them. The US has yet to date, properly identified the enemy…Islam…and has no intent or will to do what is necessary to achieve this victory.
Obama is almost right, even though he has no idea why he almost is.
Pull all those boots on the ground out now. Continue with covert air strikes until the country is thoroughly de-stabilized, step back, and then watch the inevitable internecine carnage unfold.
awake on December 1, 2009 at 11:13 PM
Did Obama read Gen Tommy Franks Book? American Soldier ?
He just pissed all over him in that speech, and Bush and pretty much forgot that we still had troops in Iraq, in harm’s way.
What a FSCKING tool Obama is. What a shame.
James on December 1, 2009 at 11:25 PM
That seems to me to be an overly-pessimistic viewpoint. I’m sure in the 1950′s many felt the same way about the endless supply of Soviet conscripts, including spies on US soil. I believe even a brief taste of freedom will convince the vast majority of people to go to any means to hang on to that freedom. Maybe I’m just hopelessly optimistic about the core of human nature. One thing is for sure, Obama’s pathetic attempts to fight the Jihad will get us nowhere. Absolutely overwhelming force is the only thing that can crush the Islamo-nazis. No foolish rules of engagement that prevent us from carpet-bombing their bases for fear of killing some tribal goats. As in Vietnam, the war is being run out of the Whitehouse, instead of the commander in the theater.
SG1_Conservative on December 1, 2009 at 11:26 PM
Saw a post by him at 1035 in the Chris Matthews story.
journeyintothewhirlwind on December 1, 2009 at 11:26 PM
Not to mention that whole slavery thing.
xblade on December 1, 2009 at 11:33 PM
Ah, the noted Hot Air Liar and comment fabricator weighs in on Reagan.
BTW, when did you serve?
hawkdriver on December 1, 2009 at 11:36 PM
Just like in the video game, right? The Taliban have “bases” now?
Grow Fins on December 1, 2009 at 11:36 PM
Never. Me and Ronnie have that in common at least.
Grow Fins on December 1, 2009 at 11:39 PM
Just saw this on Drudge and thought of Obama’s remarks about his goal of a world without nukes and weapons (naive)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/01/us-to-stop-counting-new-missiles-in-russia/
He has been in office for 10 months and this agreement was signed in Oct but HE BLAMES BUSH for it. I thought Hillary gave them a RESET button. I would really love to hear the Bush camp’s side of the story on this one too.
journeyintothewhirlwind on December 1, 2009 at 11:39 PM
In the days of conventional warfare prior to Korea, I would agree with you. But, given the current status of “rules” of engagement during military employment, coupled with an inherent knowledge of Islam and the potential impetus of a billion plus worldwide who subscribe to it, I must maintain that in this particular theatre, you are indeed being overly optimistic.
awake on December 1, 2009 at 11:42 PM
Hawks only comments are that the additional troops are appreciated even if it was vastly less than what McChrystal asked for. We still don’t know if that included the 7000 additional troops that were already slated for Kandahar as part of the NATO Bridging Force. He waited too long to make his decision, now we’ll have to suffer through the increased troops buildup with no effort being put into the logistics of where they’re going to be billeted. (We’ve been harping on that since the Administration leaked the details of McChrystal’s request.)
Plus, if they really want to win, change back to the Bush Administration’s ROE.
hawkdriver on December 1, 2009 at 11:44 PM
You’re tragic.
Ugly on December 1, 2009 at 11:50 PM
Why am I not surprised by this answer? And before you ask me, I served from 1983 to 1992 including a deployment to Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm!
galvestonian on December 1, 2009 at 11:52 PM
hawkdriver on December 1, 2009 at 11:44 PM
Stay safe. Sorry I wasn’t clear- I was reading different threads and saw Cindy and Fighton3 looking for you and thought I might help.
journeyintothewhirlwind on December 1, 2009 at 11:52 PM
POTUS is a POS. Grow Fins – you need to seek treatment for that acid abuse cause damn, you aren’t funny and you have no sense of reality.
Sporty1946 on December 1, 2009 at 11:53 PM
This. Unless the ROE change, this is all a waste.
Plus telling the Taliban when we’re going to be drawing down, (if everything goes according to the Perfect Plan) is just begging for defeat.
They know now that they just have to wait til ’11 and we’re leaving.
God help the Afgan population that actually try to partner with us. When we start leaving, it’ll get even uglier.
B Man on December 1, 2009 at 11:54 PM
Reagan served in the Army in WWII, jackass.
JonPrichard on December 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM
The narcissist in chief blames his predecessor for all his problems and the networks and major newspapers give him a free pass. I’ve seen this movie before, it doesn’t end well.
long_cat on December 2, 2009 at 12:03 AM
Can Hot Air start a policy of excluding New York Times “You Click” pieces that require you to lower yourself to dealing with them?
The reality following the last election is going to damage the notion of a welfare state, political correctness, the Democrat Party, the next wave of young liberals and The One in a powerful manner. The NYT is going to continue to try to suck the air and light out of the process.
Nice threads like I see here and then that hook to the hookers up above..
IlikedAUH2O on December 2, 2009 at 12:04 AM
Grow Fins,
You, Clinton, and Obama have never served. Ronnie did serve. He was in the Army Reserve during WWII:
After completing fourteen home-study Army Extension Courses, Reagan enlisted in the Army Enlisted Reserve[26] on April 29, 1937, as a private assigned to Troop B, 322nd Cavalry at Des Moines, Iowa.[27] He was appointed Second Lieutenant in the Officers Reserve Corps of the Cavalry on May 25, 1937, and on June 18 was assigned to the 323rd Cavalry.[28] His service number was 0 357 403.
Reagan was ordered to active duty for the first time on April 18, 1942. Due to his nearsightedness, he was classified for limited service only, which excluded him from serving overseas.[29] His first assignment was at the San Francisco Port of Embarkation at Fort Mason, California, as a liaison officer of the Port and Transportation Office.[30] Upon the approval of the Army Air Force (AAF), he applied for a transfer from the Cavalry to the AAF on May 15, 1942, and was assigned to AAF Public Relations and subsequently to the 1st Motion Picture Unit (officially, the “18th AAF Base Unit”) in Culver City, California.[30] On January 14, 1943 he was promoted to First Lieutenant and was sent to the Provisional Task Force Show Unit of This Is The Army at Burbank, California.[30] He returned to the 1st Motion Picture Unit after completing this duty and was promoted to Captain on July 22, 1943.[27]
In January 1944, Captain Reagan was ordered to temporary duty in New York City to participate in the opening of the sixth War Loan Drive. He was re-assigned to the 18th AAF Base Unit on November 14, 1944, where he remained until the end of World War II.[27] He was recommended for promotion to Major on February 2, 1945, but this recommendation was disapproved on July 17 of that year.[31] He returned to Fort MacArthur, California, where he was separated from active duty on December 9, 1945.[31] By the end of the war, his units had produced some 400 training films for the AAF.[27]
Mike Honcho on December 2, 2009 at 12:04 AM
Agree with Willie
“Willie on December 1, 2009 at 10:33 PM”
Ed,
Obama’s speech on Afghan stategy (and, by extension, Obama’s strategy itself) is the height of amateurism.
Peggy Noonan and the NYT both called him an amateur on the same day this week. Put the label on the most aggregious instance.
redneck hippie on December 2, 2009 at 12:23 AM
Thanks, Mike. I thought I knew some of this, but had forgotten the dates. RR was an enlisted man, rode the ranks up and was in 5 years before being called up.
Surely he could have declined and sought CO status?
Yet altogether he was in 8 years. Beats my 6.
Anybody have any images of him “in country”?
OkieDoc on December 2, 2009 at 12:24 AM
Peggy was warned he was an amateur before the election, yet she was highly impressed by Barack Obama’s teleprompter reading skills (and he’s not even very good at that these days) and to her this made him “Presidential”, so I laugh now that she’s reached this conclusion after the fact.
Sharr on December 2, 2009 at 12:31 AM
Thanks for the information. Good stuff. It seems like most Republican POTUS’s served in some capacity. I would love to see that continue in the future, or at least know my POTUS could hold her/his own on the range and gain the respect of those who protect my freedom because she/he won’t back down and be an appeaser.
truetexan on December 2, 2009 at 12:32 AM
Hey Mort Kondracke thought his campaigning experience made up for his lack of real experience.
Now they’re shocked SHOCKED to find out he’s an amateur and terrible at being POTUS.
B Man on December 2, 2009 at 12:37 AM
Did anyone else notice how many cadets and other audience members were nodding off during the so-called speech?
princetrumpet on December 2, 2009 at 12:38 AM
OOOhh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTi2c331cPY
Del Dolemonte on December 2, 2009 at 12:50 AM
Joe Biden had 5 draft deferments, kid. F-minus.
Next?
Del Dolemonte on December 2, 2009 at 12:53 AM
Reagan attempted to enlist early in WWII, he was deemed more useful to the war effort, making training, and moral films.
Have you done anything other than offer support and comfort to the enemy.
darktood on December 2, 2009 at 12:54 AM
Yeah I noticed that. It just bothers me so much that those kids are going to put into the Afgan hell sh!t hole with Obama pussyfooting around the problems.
God help them.
Really, the Afgan people would have to be crazy to help us knowing that in 2 years we’re going to leave.
What possible incentive could they have to not support the Taliban?
B Man on December 2, 2009 at 12:54 AM
So many speeches and so many words and not one memorable quote except Barry’s answer to Joe the Plumber’s question and, maybe, the “If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun” statement, which was very revealing as Chicago’s murder rate was soaring at the time. People remember Joe Wilson’s two words but almost nothing TOTUS read that night. No Oscar for Barry next year.
MayorDaley on December 2, 2009 at 1:03 AM
July 2011.
Obama didn’t use the word victory but he has already announced when we retreat.
I hope our military can pull off a miracle in 18 months.
Yakko77 on December 2, 2009 at 1:24 AM
Yes.
In Londonistan and Dearbornistan and I think they are building one someplace in Minnesota.
MB4 on December 2, 2009 at 1:35 AM
Allah, you do realize this is as close as he can come to voting present, don’t you? I’m impressed just how hard he had to be pressed to do this much. That man HATES making public decisions.
{^_^}
herself on December 2, 2009 at 2:02 AM
Just left the bathroom.
Pooped like no-one has before,
Since the start of time…
Haiku Guy on December 2, 2009 at 5:44 AM
The 30,000 should refuse to go. Bozo is sending them to stand around and get killed for nothing, since he isn’t interested in winning or even know how to do it.
Its just stupid.
dogsoldier on December 2, 2009 at 7:00 AM
Anyone know where we can get the new “Obama is a warmongerer” bumperstickers?
LtE126 on December 2, 2009 at 7:03 AM
The atmosphere at West Point was quite telling. The President’s rhythm was off when the cadets didn’t cheer after every comment that came out of the President’s mouth. He may have to have an “applause” sign installed before he speaks to the military again.
yoda on December 2, 2009 at 7:22 AM
Just out of curiosity, when Reagan served because of his vision problems he was not sent overseas. I assume that then, if you did not have a perfect vision on check-up that’s what happened. Of course I am no history expert, why not prescription eyeglasses? Did he ended up wearing eyeglasses toward the end of his assignment/enlistment?
BTW I admire and enjoy reading your posts, guys and gals. I did not watch the speech; I took another route and watched my new Fatima movie that arrived yesterday in my mailbox. In case you are interested, here is the official website: http://the13thday.com
ProudPalinFan on December 2, 2009 at 7:31 AM
Mike Honcho on December 2, 2009 at 12:04 AM
Thanks, you beat me it.
oldleprechaun on December 2, 2009 at 7:34 AM
They stood and clapped
asbecause he left.thomasaur on December 1, 2009 at 10:34 PM
FIFY
haikusrock on December 2, 2009 at 7:39 AM
President(hope&change)Obama is attempting to fight al-qaeda in Afghanistan and at the same time negotiate with ‘moderate’ Taliban.
.
philly_PA on December 2, 2009 at 7:43 AM
Don’t forget Code Pink…
right2bright on December 2, 2009 at 8:17 AM
How many lies do you tell in a day…doesn’t that ever bother you that you get caught with these lies.
You never seem to acknowledge when you do lie…is it something you have grown up with, or that you had learned recently?
right2bright on December 2, 2009 at 8:20 AM
The first thing we ought to do in Afghanistan is declare a five-mile wide exclusion zone along the Afghan/Pakistan border, and declare that we will kill anything in this zone that moves. We should then patrol this zone by air, and blow up anything warmer than the surrounding terrain. Then we should mine this area so heavily that every other rock is explosive.
Thus the Taliban will be cut off from their areas of refuge. The Pakis can deal with the idiots on their side of the border, or not, depending on their whim. And the US military can deal with the idiots on our side of the border, who will suddenly have no place to run.
gridlock2 on December 2, 2009 at 8:28 AM
What struck me about Obama reading his speech was that the guy is a cold person, his eyes were dead as read, there was no passion; he could have just as well been reading a laundry list.
And as I watched him finish up the last 10 minutes of his speech, I thought, the guy does not believe a word he is saying about America.
I did notice that somebody obviously gave him the word not to say anything bad about Bush or blame others or apologize for anything America does.
albill on December 2, 2009 at 8:45 AM
Lefties always seem to lie. I know that the net is anonymous, mam’, but you should have some pride.
Johan Klaus on December 2, 2009 at 8:52 AM
For a minute I actually had hope Obama would actually step up and act like he was the leader of the free world. But, as he spoke about liberty and repression, I thought about his stance on the Honduras and his refusal to back the Iranians when they called out his name asking whose side he was on. Truly a disappointment.
elclynn on December 2, 2009 at 9:01 AM
***News Flash*** ***News Flash*** ***News Flash***
Date Line “Pock-E-Sta’n”
ObamaOsama Bin Laden has announced today that he will move his base of operations from ‘Pock-E-Sta’n” to Iran effective 01-01-10. Confidential sources say he will be on hiatus until 08-01-11 at which time he plans to return to “Pock-E-Sta’n”. It is widely assumed that the expenses for this move have been donated from TARP money supplied by the Infidels of the Eighty Sixth Congressional District of Arizona.While on this eighteen month hiatus he intends to crash several State dinners at the White House in the United States of Infidels in America. He will also attempt to get an Autographed copy of “Know your Power” written by the Infidel, Nancy Pelosi.
Developing…
Guest1.1 on December 2, 2009 at 9:03 AM
Sorry, Should read “Money for expenses”
Guest1.1 on December 2, 2009 at 9:07 AM
Reagan enlisted in the army reserves in 1937. He was ordered into active service in 1942, but because of poor eyesight he was excluded from serving overseas. Unlike many present day movie stars, in WWII many stars proudly served.
Johan Klaus on December 2, 2009 at 9:07 AM
This may be nit-picky but, the President said…
“We have spilled American blood in many countries on multiple continents.”
American’s shed blood.
To spill blood implies we are killing our own people.
Am I wrong?
mechkiller_k on December 2, 2009 at 9:09 AM
Gee, I wonder why the cadets were not cheering….
These young men and women have led a terrific young life, one of honor and duty..have applied to and gotten into one of the toughest schools in the country, intend to serve our nation on the battlefield and defend our honor.
Then the CINC shows up and gives a speech that basically lays blame over the previous 8 years of not doing enough, saying ‘he opposed the Iraq war’, we diverted our attention and are basically losing the current war.
Then he insults their intelligence by saying to them that by signing letters and witnessing coffins, he has witnessed ‘first hand’ the cost of war. He is talking to future soldiers, some of whom will not be coming back from a war he fails to declare as victory as our objective and THOSE soldiers are the real first hand witnesses to war.
I thought the speech was angry and bitter. The first part was blaming Bush on where we are today, the second part was a rif on everything from jobs, the economy to Eisenhower.
On a side note, I loved seeing HRC’s face when Obama said that ‘He’ has personally engaged in better diplomacy, not once giving credit to her. I wonder what she was thinking.
Pathetic.
tatersalad on December 2, 2009 at 9:11 AM
The reason they stood was because you always stand when a senior official leaves the room. The reason they clapped is because it was “the done thing.” No matter what they thought of the Prez, the cadets would not embarrass the Academy by behaving improperly. (as opposed to most college students)
Spike72AFA on December 2, 2009 at 9:12 AM
BTW, when did you serve?
hawkdriver on December 1, 2009 at 11:36 PM
LOL, pretty sure we know the answer to that ,as in never.
LSUMama on December 2, 2009 at 9:21 AM
Never. Me and Ronnie have that in common at least.
Grow Fins on December 1, 2009 at 11:39 PM
Are you ten or were you eduacated at Berkley? I`m just putting it out there.
LSUMama on December 2, 2009 at 9:24 AM
Del Dolemonte on December 2, 2009 at 10:11 AM
Last!
*heh*
LASue on December 2, 2009 at 11:10 AM
Seems they might have one at 1600 Pennsylvania ave too.
Fighton03 on December 2, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Somebody needs to go and interview the people who gave Obama a Nobel Peace Prize.
I’d pay to read that article…
bridgetown on December 2, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Yes I know I will be called names for my humble opinion. I’m not an anti-war liberal, but dude we can’t afford these wars anymore. Let’s get out and put our military on our borders. Let’s bring industry back to America and stop trying to be the Policemen of the world. We have enough domestic problems and our debt is out of control. Our money shouldn’t be going to try to build other countries until we can build ourselves back. We secure ourselves by securing our borders and not allowing people into our country.
flash044 on December 2, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Obama is a traitor to this country……..
….he’s tearing “remaking” this country one industry/one policy/one day at a time.
This was just a “photo op” for Barry.
God help us!!!!!
PappyD61 on December 2, 2009 at 1:15 PM
flash044 on December 2, 2009 at 1:07 PM
I agree, especially if the CInC’s heart is not into getting the job done, and it’s obviously not.
Securing our border is a great idea. And also, checking up on people like Hasan at ft. hood.
God help us.
bridgetown on December 2, 2009 at 1:22 PM
Yeah…a certain bible verse about a speck in your brother’s eye and a plank in one’s own eye comes to mind right about now…
Dark-Star on December 2, 2009 at 1:22 PM
That was a great inspiring speech by our fearless Commander In Chief! I’d follow him through the gates of a petting zoo!
MCGIRV on December 2, 2009 at 4:07 PM
The 9/11 attackers entered the US legally.
Del Dolemonte on December 2, 2009 at 4:21 PM
What an idiot, nice for him to give them an idea when and where we will be and how long. I suspect all the terrorist will be taking a vacation for 18 months or laying low. Then when we declare a victory of defeating no one rise and kill thousands of innocent people. Good move idiot. I was surprised that the cadets didn’t all run.
workingforpigs on December 2, 2009 at 5:26 PM
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