Will Washington shooting damage Huckabee bid?

posted at 12:15 pm on November 30, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

How could it not?  It’s the second time that a man granted clemency by Mike Huckabee over the objections of prosecutors has committed a violent act that would have been prevented otherwise.   Maurice Clemmons had his lengthy prison sentence commuted by Huckabee in 2000, despite a lifetime pattern of violent crime and erratic behavior, nine years before Clemmons shot four Seattle police officers to death in a coffee shop:

Maurice Clemmons, the 37-year-old Tacoma man being sought for questioning in the killing this morning of four Lakewood police officers, has a long criminal record punctuated by violence, erratic behavior and concerns about his mental health.

Nine years ago, then-Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee granted clemency to Clemmons, commuting his lengthy prison sentence over the protests of prosecutors.

“This is the day I’ve been dreading for a long time,” Larry Jegley, prosecuting attorney for Arkansas’ Pulaski County said tonight when informed that Clemmons was being sought for questioning in connection with the killings.

Clemmons’ criminal history includes at least five felony convictions in Arkansas and at least eight felony charges in Washington. The record also stands out for the number of times he has been released from custody despite questions about the danger he posed.

Huckabee, who ran for the Republican presidential nomination last year, issued a statement tonight calling the slaying of the police officers “a horrible and tragic event.”

If Clemmons is found responsible, “it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington State,” Huckabee said.

As Michelle reminds us, it’s not the first time Huckabee had reason to regret his generosity:

New sources, including an advisor to Gov. Mike Huckabee, have told the Arkansas Times that Huckabee and a senior member of his staff exerted behind-the-scenes influence to bring about the parole of rapist Wayne Dumond, who Missouri authorities say raped and killed a woman there shortly after his parole.

Huckabee has denied a role in Dumond’s release, which has become an issue in his race for re-election against Democrat Jimmie Lou Fisher. Fisher says Huckabee’s advocacy of Dumond’s freedom, plus other acts of executive clemency, exhibit poor judgment. In response, Huckabee has shifted responsibility for Dumond’s release to others, claiming former Gov. Jim Guy Tucker made Dumond eligible for parole and saying the Post Prison Transfer Board made the decision on its own to free Dumond.

But the Times’ new reporting shows the extent to which Huckabee and a key aide were involved in the process to win Dumond’s release. It was a process marked by deviation from accepted parole practice and direct personal lobbying by the governor, in an apparently illegal and unrecorded closed-door meeting with the parole board (the informal name by which the Post Prison Transfer Board is known).

Six weeks after his release, Dumond raped and killed Carol Sue Shields, and was suspected of killing Sara Andrasek.  This came up in the 2008 Republican primaries, and Huckabee argued that clemency was a difficult matter to judge.  He also laid off considerable blame on prosecutors and his predecessor at the time, and claimed that he had little to do with the Dumond parole.  He doesn’t have the luxury of that argument with Clemmons.  Huckabee signed the commutation, and he did so over the objections of the prosecutors.

Unfortunately for Huckabee, he has two big political problems now.  First, clemency decisions go directly to judgment, as Michael Dukakis learned the hard way in 1988 with the Willie Horton work-furlough controversy.  In that case, Dukakis didn’t make the decision specifically to let Horton out of prison, but backed the program that did.  In this case, Huckabee personally freed Clemmons, and did so with full knowledge of the risks.  That is a very legitimate reason to question Huckabee’s judgment, and his attempt to back away from that decision in his statement doesn’t speak well to his sense of responsibility, either, although Clemmons’ subsequent release from armed-robbery convictions after his clemency spreads that responsibility around.

Second, before Huckabee can get into a general election, he has to win a nomination — and he has to convince conservatives to back him.  That will be very difficult if Huckabee is seen as weak on crime.  A general election electorate might be more sympathetic to a generous use of executive clemency, but Huckabee won’t find that in a Republican primary, where law and order is one of the central tenets of the GOP.

As soon as Huckabee enters the Republican primaries, expect his opponents to make Maurice Clemmons Exhibit A for an argument against Huckabee’s judgment.  And expect it to be effective.

Update: Joe Carter, who worked for Huckabee’s presidential campaign, has an excellent essay on why Huckabee’s personal strength of charitable action is the reason he will never be President:

Reflections on a politician by former campaign staffers should always be taken cum grano salis. This is no exception. While I’m still a fan of the governor I don’t believe he—nor anyone else from the 2008 primary season (from Palin to Romney to Giuliani to Paul)—has any chance of ever becoming President. Because of this, I don’t feel the need to either defend or condemn him. While the tragic chain of events that were set in place by his signing commutations are not entirely—or even primarily—the fault of the governor, he must bear a sufficient measure of responsibility. …

For instance, the politically prudent tactic would have been to simply refuse to grant any leniency—ever. Other governors with their sights set on higher offices had learned that doing nothing—even to correct obvious instances of injustice—was unlikely to cause any long-term political damage. Keeping an innocent man in prison is less harmful to an ambitious politician than freeing someone who may commit other crimes.

Huckabee would certain discover this political reality the hard way. Initially, I chalked it up solely to extraordinary political courage. Later, I tempered this view when I realized that this courage was mixed with a large dose of cluelessness. The governor seemed genuinely surprised that he was held responsible for the criminal acts committed by those whose sentences he had commuted as governor. It was as if he believed that simply having noble intentions and a willingness to make tough decisions would provide political cover. The notion that he should be accountable for future crimes committed by these men seemed as foreign to him as the idea that he should refuse all leniency.

His naivete about how his actions would be judged was compounded by his own belief in the nobleness of his motives. Huckabee was—and likely remains—a true believer in the concept of restorative justice. Like many politicians who latch onto ideas that support their worldview, however, he was enthusiastic about the general theory while failing to grasp the nuances of its application.

I think Joe nails this.  In my opinion, Huckabee would never have signed off on the commutations if he really believed that he was releasing dangerous men.  The problem is that his judgment on that was flawed, and Huckabee didn’t take the counsel of wiser men on some of these cases.  That goes directly to executive judgment.

Update: Andrew Barr has more about reaction from conservative bloggers, myself included, at Politico.


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No, this just confirms that we were right about the Huckster being a whiny little wimp like Carter who is too touchy-feeling to do their part to keep others safe.

Laura in Maryland on November 30, 2009 at 1:56 PM

+1
I believe we should fry these human parasites who prey on humanity. They do not deserve mercy or clemency. If you do the crime, be prepared to pay for it with your life or to serve out your sentence.

TXMomof3 on November 30, 2009 at 2:03 PM

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:02 PM

Ahem… “Willie Horton.”

Ding! Fried career is done!

Doorgunner on November 30, 2009 at 2:05 PM

Narutoboy -

Your attempt at moral equivalency doesn’t wash. Bin Laden was not a known enemy of the United States at the time of our backing. Clemmons was a proven, violent, career criminal. Huckabee acted against the advice given to him and it eventually cost 4 police officers their lives. He will pay a political price for his bad decision.

kingsjester on November 30, 2009 at 2:08 PM

Huck goes from a potential lackluster also-ran to a non-starter in 2012.

The only thing I like about Huck is he is an unabashed Christian and the left can’t stand that.

Mr Purple on November 30, 2009 at 2:13 PM

I think ‘damage’ is an understatement.

Vashta.Nerada on November 30, 2009 at 2:14 PM

Narutomoby on November 30, 2009 at 2:02 PM

LibTired on November 30, 2009 at 2:15 PM

The problem with his actions is that it’s so opposite in direction of most people. CA liberals, even, LIKE the 3 strikes law. It keeps the murderers out of society for good and is well worth the cost. What most liberals, and I count myself in on this one, do not like is abuse of the law. We didn’t expect prosecutors to use every trick to overcharge petty criminals and then leverage them into plea bargains.

We did want to see the rapists, murderers, etc. gone for good, and that has worked well.

So Huckabee is really odd. A conservative that puts people at risk? What in the world is THAT about?

It’s hard to believe this is redemption thinking, but heck, maybe that’s really the answer.

If so, he’s a fool.

AnninCA on November 30, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Bin Laden was not a known enemy of the United States at the time of our backing.

Bin Laden’s career, even before becoming a terrorist, was violence. That’s exactly what’s happening when you’re battling other forces. As far as being a criminal, that’s irrelevant and subjective. The bottom line is, it wasn’t far-fetched to think that he turn on us one day. Now I’m not saying we shouldn’t have done it. On the contrary, I believe we were just being tactical and trying to win a battle. I assume Huckabee was doing this in good faith. Both decisions backfired, one greater than the other (Osama).

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Huck is just practicing that old saying of Jesus…”If an enemy strikes someone else, I will turn that person’s cheek so that he may be smote again!”

Kasper Hauser on November 30, 2009 at 2:17 PM

I never understood how a moron like Huckabee got as far as he did in the Republican primaries. I mean, what kind of idiots were voting for him, and why?

Good riddance.

cool breeze on November 30, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Yes, I believe this will damage Huckabee’s chances. He’s all washed up politically.

dogsoldier on November 30, 2009 at 2:17 PM

So Huckabee is really odd. A conservative that puts people at risk? What in the world is THAT about?

AnninCA on November 30, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Huckabee calls himself a conservative but that doesn’t mean he actually is a conservative.

myrenovations on November 30, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Huck pardoned over 1000 prisoners. I bet he will have a few sleepless nights wondering how many more ticking time bombs are out there, thanks to him.

stenwin77 on November 30, 2009 at 2:19 PM

As I understand it, Romney pardoned NO ONE. He said the prosecutors and the judge and jury were the ones who had the facts and they made the decision.
Romney is a good man. I hate that you classify him with huck.
There is also LIZ CHENEY (who is head and shoulders above obama – brains, beauty, intelligence)and De Mint (hope I have his name right).He seems like a real conservative and so does Liz. Just listen to them sometime.

Bambi on November 30, 2009 at 2:20 PM

Nice knowing you Huck…Get the f*ck out….

Tim Burton on November 30, 2009 at 2:22 PM

“…..what kind of idiots were voting for him, and why?”

Well in Arkansas at least, you know it was a rather decayed population of sub-par intelligence and moral character. A people can only inbreed for so long before it starts showing.

I mean, Good Grief. This is a state that couldn’t even come up an original state name. They copied their neighbor. I guess “Arkansas” is better than Artennessee, Armissouri or Artexas….

Kasper Hauser on November 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM

While I’m still a fan of the governor I don’t believe he—nor anyone else from the 2008 primary season (from Palin to Romney to Giuliani to Paul)—has any chance of ever becoming President.

Just like the McCain campaign staffers, this tool presumes to lecture the GOP on which candidates are not gonna win!
I fully expect more of the same from the Huckster himself as he was just a Wingman for Mccain, stayin in and siphoning off votes when he had no chance!

I don’t expect that I will be takin any advice from LOSERS!
That means the McLame OR Huckleberry campaigns!

dhunter on November 30, 2009 at 2:29 PM

…I assume Huckabee was doing this in good faith. Both decisions backfired, one greater than the other (Osama).

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:16 PM

The whole ‘puff, puff, post’ thing really isn’t working out for you.

Doorgunner on November 30, 2009 at 2:29 PM

Now I’m not saying we shouldn’t have done it. On the contrary, I believe we were just being tactical and trying to win a battle. I assume Huckabee was doing this in good faith. Both decisions backfired, one greater than the other (Osama).

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:16 PM

First, unless I missed it, you still haven’t backed up your claim that we trained Bin Laden. As others have said, if you allege something happened, and others dispute it, the burden is on YOU to provide the source. Saying its an “easily verifiable fact” is baloney. If it’s so easy to verify, you can do the verifying – don’t expect others to do your work for you.

But lets give you the benefit of the doubt. Training Bin Laden would have been a calculated risk – gain an ally against the Soviets in one military conflict, possibly an enemy down the road in another (war on terror). Potential downside, and potential upside.

Where’s the potential upside to releasing Clemmons? Generally a calculated risk should have some potential for reward, no? Otherwise, it would seem more like a mindlessly stupid and reckless risk.

RINO in Name Only on November 30, 2009 at 2:30 PM

Wow, an ezine article. That proves what exactly? Osama bin Laden was apart of the group that we trained and assisted in the battle against Russians. Nat Geo did an entire bio on Osama’s history and this was discussed in great detail.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 1:57 PM

Dude you’ve been owned. Quit moving the goalposts and step off.

fossten on November 30, 2009 at 2:32 PM

I think we owe this murderer a debt of gratitude for saving us from President Huckster.

misterpeasea on November 30, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Let’s be blunt:

Huckabee’s only purpose for running last time was his hatred of Mormons. He could not stand seeing Romney get close to the presidency.

McCain and Huckabee agreed on immigration and many social issues. Neither man is a conservative.

If Romney had been the nominee the economic meltdown would have played right into his hands. He is the turnaround artist and America may well have turned to Romney rather than Obama for leadership.

I hope the Huckster’s “generosity” destroys any possibility that man has of ever becoming President.

The Rock on November 30, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 1:57 PM

Did someone forget to flush this morning?

HornetSting on November 30, 2009 at 2:33 PM

HornetSting on November 30, 2009 at 2:33 PM

He/she/it is making a couple of our regular threadjackers look like pikers.

Cindy Munford on November 30, 2009 at 2:36 PM

Dude you’ve been owned. Quit moving the goalposts and step off.

fossten on November 30, 2009 at 2:32 PM

By who? The claim was that Osama was not supported and trained by government. That’s untrue. Am I missing the ownage? Or were you talking about something that had to do with Huckabee?

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:36 PM

If it’s so easy to verify, you can do the verifying – don’t expect others to do your work for you.

Again, I’m not going to go out of my way to provide proof of something just because someone doesn’t believe it’s so. What I won’t be doing is searching for random ezine articles (hilarious) to support my statements. If you want to know where I got my facts from, watch the bio on Osama done on the Nat Geo channel.

Now, your point about risks and rewards is a good one. I don’t know what the reward for releasing this guy would’ve been. Other than giving somebody, who claimed to want to do good, a new chance at life.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:42 PM

By who? The claim was that Osama was not supported and trained by government. That’s untrue. Am I missing the ownage? Or were you talking about something that had to do with Huckabee?

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:36 PM

F*cknut, we’re talking about HUCKPRAH here. If you want to blame the United States for an F*cknut like Osama, go to the Kos or HuffPuff. But, GET THE F*CK OUT OF HERE!
Here, we love our country and we don’t indict from past history…we learn from it!

HornetSting on November 30, 2009 at 2:43 PM

Erm, don’t have time to read through all the comments here, but, erm, Palin was not part of the 2008 primary. Hello? Can NO ONE get their facts straight? Sigh.

hrh40 on November 30, 2009 at 2:46 PM

F*cknut, we’re talking about HUCKPRAH here.

HornetSting on November 30, 2009 at 2:43 PM

That’s pretty awesome.

myrenovations on November 30, 2009 at 2:48 PM

What I won’t be doing is searching for random ezine articles (hilarious) to support my statements. If you want to know where I got my facts from, watch the bio on Osama done on the Nat Geo channel.

Narutalife343 on November 30, 2009 at 2:42 PM

I’m just quoting this for posterity.

LibTired on November 30, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Hey, Huck!

As an LEO, a hearty “FU” doesn’t quite cover it here.

Not sure what to say other than to let you know their blood is on your hands just as much as it is the shooter’s.

The CJ system got it right for once, giving this guy what amounted to a life sentence, before you meddled.

From your g*ddamned Ivory Tower, you chose to undo what had been done by those more qualified than you. You ignorant, arrogant SOB.

You POS bastard – you aided in the killing of four people who had done more with their lives than you ever will. Good people who RISK THEIR LIVES to keep others safe.

Die, you bastard. Just f’ing die.

– 10 years OTJ

RedNewEnglander on November 30, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Here, we love our country and we don’t indict from past history…we learn from it!

Good grief. Did you even read the discussion? I’m not blaming the United States for anything. I’m drawing a comparison between what happened with Osama and our government and what Huckabee did with this guy. I don’t hold them accountable for what happened with him, so I question people that are demonizing Huckabee because of this. It’s a little hypocritical to blame Huckabee but turn your back on our involvement with Osama, who is responsible for way more deaths than this creep.

I love my country, too. :-|

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:49 PM

It did not change anything for me .I don,t like him for a lot of reasons .This just goes to show that along with being week on immigration and buying into global warming .He is now week on crime.This is why we call him (THE HUCKSTER).

thmcbb on November 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM

If you want to know where I got my facts from, watch the bio on Rosie O’Donnell done on the Oxygen channel.

Narutosimon on November 30, 2009 at 2:42 PM

Doorgunner on November 30, 2009 at 2:51 PM

I think Joe nails this. In my opinion, Huckabee would never have signed off on the commutations if he really believed that he was releasing dangerous men. The problem is that his judgment on that was flawed, and Huckabee didn’t take the counsel of wiser men on some of these cases. That goes directly to executive judgment.

Bingo.

Hey, I have learned to not dislike Huckabee as much as I did during the campaign last year. I think he’s a nice guy, but I’m sure this has finished him off. It’s a crying shame that he didn’t listen to “wiser men” and not grant clemency in both cases. The death of Huckabee’s political career is NOTHING compared to the loss of life.

Oink on November 30, 2009 at 2:52 PM

This is the question, is Huck’s sense of right going to overrule everyone else in the room when a drop nukes decision comes up?

Mark30339 on November 30, 2009 at 2:54 PM

I never understood how a moron like Huckabee got as far as he did in the Republican primaries. I mean, what kind of idiots were voting for him, and why?

Good riddance.
cool breeze on November 30, 2009 at 2:17 PM

The idiots were bible thumping Christians who thought they were getting a real “Christian” in the White House.

Plus, they didn’t want a Mormon in the White House.

Romney is a good man. I hate that you classify him with huck.

Bambi on November 30, 2009 at 2:20 PM

No matter how you feel about Romney’s approach to health care, it is NOT the same as Clemmonsgate.

Conservative Samizdat on November 30, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Doorgunner on November 30, 2009 at 2:51 PM

Because Oxygen is equivalent to National Geographic, right? Sure.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:54 PM

If you want to know where I get my obsession with Osama from, watch the Real Sex Goat Special on the HBO channel.

Narutorywall on November 30, 2009 at 2:42 PM

Doorgunner on November 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM

The claim was that Osama was not supported and trained by government. That’s untrue.
Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:36 PM

Jeeze get stuck in one crappy meeting and Bam! The stupidity level increases.
.
Ok where is your proof that the Osama personally, not as a part of a group but as an individual, was supported and trained by the US?
Anonymous blogs at the Atlantic will not cut it. I am talking a picture of Osama with an American (and not Evil Bert). Or how about a pay stub with his name on it?

LincolntheHun on November 30, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Oh yeah, this will definitely hamper any possibilities he had.

shar61 on November 30, 2009 at 2:57 PM

If you want to know where I get my obsession with Nat Geo from, the boys at East Anglia CRU were interviewed by teh Olbermeister and they said Nat Geo really understood.

Narutocrr6 on November 30, 2009 at 2:42 PM

Doorgunner on November 30, 2009 at 2:58 PM

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:49 PM

I’ll make this REAL simple for you~as the wife of a law enforcement officer, I take this REAL seriously~are you ready:

IF HUCKPRAH WOULD HAVE KEPT HIS FAT F*CKING NOSE OUT OF THIS CASE AND NOT GIVEN CLEMENCY TO THIS SCUMBAG POS SH*TBAG, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ROTTING IN JAIL INSTEAD OF GRABBING A GUN AND SHOOTING FOUR POLICE OFFICERS.
DO YOU GET IT? NOW, shut up and discuss what we are discussing or piss off.

HornetSting on November 30, 2009 at 3:01 PM

LincolntheHun on November 30, 2009 at 2:57 PM

This isn’t hard to understand. Bin Laden was apart of the Afghan resistance. He worked alongside them and fought alongside them. The U.S., during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, supported, funded, and trained this very resistance to oust Russians from the region.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM

The Rock on November 30, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Not sure it was his only reason for running, but it certainly became his mission. I was suprised at my Christian friends, consevatives, who said they would not vote for Romney because he was a Morman! Hell, I don’t even understand what a Mormon believes but pretty sure Romney would not have had an equal when it came to the economic mess that Rush said the election would be all about. He would not have been rolled on a stimulus!
The good thing is we got to see Palin. Some of us knew her before McDumbass called upon her and believe her uniquely qualified to clean up the corruptocrat cesspool D.C. has become!
Now these campaigns will do their utmost to destroy her!

dhunter on November 30, 2009 at 3:03 PM

It did not change anything for me .I don,t like him for a lot of reasons .This just goes to show that along with being week on immigration and buying into global warming .He is now week on crime.This is why we call him (THE HUCKSTER).

thmcbb on November 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM

That is the key word to think when thinking of the huck. WEAK
Notice how quiet he was on that NY23 election.

kangjie on November 30, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Will Washington shooting damage Huckabee bid?

Yes.

p.s. Hey Allah, proof there is a God and he’s gotta a weird sense of humor ;p

Branch Rickey on November 30, 2009 at 3:04 PM

DO YOU GET IT? NOW, shut up and discuss what we are discussing or piss off.

No need to be this emotional, especially not on a comment section. Jeez. I get it. It was very bad judgment. If I were in his position, I wouldn’t have done it. Still, I don’t agree with how people are focusing in on Huckabee and leaving the victim and the culprit as a side note. A lot of people are just rejoicing over the fact that his career is over with.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:05 PM

Huckabee is toast!

MCGIRV on November 30, 2009 at 3:05 PM

Still, I don’t agree with how people are focusing in on Huckabee and leaving the victim and the culprit as a side note. A lot of people are just rejoicing over the fact that his career is over with.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:05 PM

We are focusing on it because Hot Air chose it to be the subject of the thread on their political blog.

myrenovations on November 30, 2009 at 3:07 PM

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM

You don’t comprehend very well, do you? How is the U.S. supporting the Afghani Resistance against the Russians in anyway morally equivalent to Huckabee commuting the sentence against a known violent career criminal, an action that eventually led to the murder of 4 Seattle Police Officers?

kingsjester on November 30, 2009 at 3:08 PM

This horrible crime is laid right at Huckabee’s feet. He gives a ticket out for this perp who has now also facing charges for sex crimes with a child, assault on a police officer, and now the murders of FOUR POLICE OFFICERS.
Instead of an apology for having done this deed — of personal clemency for this lower than animal, Hucky blames “the system.” Get outta our face (and FOX should suspend and fire him immediately); the bell tolls for thee, Huckster.

TBenton on November 30, 2009 at 3:09 PM

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Narutorywall on November 30, 2009 at 2:42 PM

Narutosimon on November 30, 2009 at 2:42 PM

Narutalife343 on November 30, 2009 at 2:42 PM

Narutomoby on November 30, 2009 at 2:02 PM

Interesting….

ladyingray on November 30, 2009 at 3:10 PM

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM

I am sure everyone admires your ability to steer this thread from the political future of Gov. Huckabee to the Osama Bin Laden. I think it’s safe to say that you have gone pretty far afield. There are no prizes for this talent.

Cindy Munford on November 30, 2009 at 3:11 PM

Still, I don’t agree with how people are focusing in on Huckabee and leaving the victim and the culprit as a side note. A lot of people are just rejoicing over the fact that his career is over with.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:05 PM

Because it is the subject of the thread? Are you new?

Cindy Munford on November 30, 2009 at 3:12 PM

Hey, at least Huckabee made them leave Arkansas.

After Holder/Obama attempts to convict the 9/11 guys fails, they will be allowed to stay in the US.

barnone on November 30, 2009 at 3:14 PM

How is the U.S. supporting the Afghani Resistance against the Russians in anyway morally equivalent to Huckabee commuting the sentence against a known violent career criminal, an action that eventually led to the murder of 4 Seattle Police Officers?

kingsjester on November 30, 2009 at 3:08 PM

I’ve already addressed this. It’s morally equivalent for two reasons: 1. They were both done in good faith. We didn’t know how he was going to turn out and Huckabee, I assume, thought this man had turned his life around. and 2. This guys murder record doesn’t even begin to compare to Osama, so it’s a much bigger deal. You’re like the third person to mention the fact that he was known to be violent. Obviously, Osama was too. Do our guys want weak, spineless people that don’t fight, fighting and partaking in what is a violent scenario – war. It doesn’t matter if he was a criminal or not. He saw the Russians as enemies at that time, which means we could very easily take their place in the future.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:14 PM

Because it is the subject of the thread? Are you new?

Cindy Munford on November 30, 2009 at 3:12 PM

Yeah, I know it is…that’s the problem.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:16 PM

This isn’t hard to understand. Bin Laden was apart of the Afghan resistance. He worked alongside them and fought alongside them. The U.S., during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, supported, funded, and trained this very resistance to oust Russians from the region.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM

Proof by assertion does not impress anyone. Your attempt to equivocate Huck with Reagan is laughable.

fossten on November 30, 2009 at 3:18 PM

Yeah, I know it is…that’s the problem.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:16 PM

Save us from ourselves, natureboy.

LibTired on November 30, 2009 at 3:19 PM

Now, your point about risks and rewards is a good one. I don’t know what the reward for releasing this guy would’ve been. Other than giving somebody, who claimed to want to do good, a new chance at life.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 2:42 PM

And there we have it. This is what everyone on this thread is rightly harping on him for. This is a political blog. We talk about politics, and politicians, and particularly, politicians who screw up in serious ways.

This is a real serious screw up by Huckabee, with no apparent good reason. Literally every criminal up for parole “claim[s] to want to do good.” That is a terrible reason to grant clemency, and yet that didn’t stop Huckabee. This was gross negligence.

RINO in Name Only on November 30, 2009 at 3:19 PM

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:05 PM

You don’t seem to get it, douche.
And, Cindy Munford is a beloved poster here. You seem to be the product of a quickshot urine drop.

HornetSting on November 30, 2009 at 3:20 PM

This isn’t hard to understand. Bin Laden was apart of the Afghan resistance. He worked alongside them and fought alongside them. The U.S., during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, supported, funded, and trained this very resistance to oust Russians from the region.
Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM

.
That’s it? That’s your evidence? Bin Laden (a Saudi) was in Pakistan where the Afghan resistance was located and since we trained Afghanis in Pakistan and Bin Laden was there by default we trained Bin Laden.
That’s like saying since the Chinese are in Tibet and the Chinese are commies the Dali Lama is a commie.
Go back to your game blog and brag about your Doom score this here place is for adults.

LincolntheHun on November 30, 2009 at 3:20 PM

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:14 PM

Clemmons was in prison, Osama wasn’t. Clemmons had already killed people, Osama hadn’t.

Where is your proof that Reagan trained Osama? Still waiting, Mr. Proof by ASSertion.

fossten on November 30, 2009 at 3:21 PM

Proof by assertion does not impress anyone. Your attempt to equivocate Huck with Reagan is laughable.

fossten on November 30, 2009 at 3:18 PM

Proof by pointing to ezine articles, insulting me, changing my username and my message, declaring that I’m wrong and offering no in depth argument of your (as in people that have responded) own doesn’t impress me, either.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:21 PM

Narutoboy is the only person who is out defending Huckabee.

Where are the other usual Huckbot supporters like VFT and apacalyps??

Conservative Samizdat on November 30, 2009 at 3:22 PM

LincolntheHun on November 30, 2009 at 3:20 PM

No, genius, Osama didn’t just happen to be in the region, he was there helping and fighting alongside the Afghan resistance, which was supported by the U.S.. What don’t you get?

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:23 PM

Please let this be the end of Gov. Huckabee for president.
No more retreds for the presidential nomination that’s so 80′s!

13thdistrictvoter on November 30, 2009 at 3:24 PM

This is a real serious screw up by Huckabee, with no apparent good reason. Literally every criminal up for parole “claim[s] to want to do good.” That is a terrible reason to grant clemency, and yet that didn’t stop Huckabee. This was gross negligence.

RINO in Name Only on November 30, 2009 at 3:19 PM

Just realized I mentioned “parole” here, when of course I meant clemency both times. Point still stands, however.

RINO in Name Only on November 30, 2009 at 3:24 PM

Proof by pointing to ezine articles, insulting me, changing my username and my message, declaring that I’m wrong and offering your incisive in-depth arguments impresses the heck out of me. You guys at HA are great.

Natureboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:21 PM

Thank you.

LibTired on November 30, 2009 at 3:24 PM

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:16 PM

Because that’s not you call, your choices are comment or don’t comment. A little off thread is one thing but you have left the planet.

Cindy Munford on November 30, 2009 at 3:24 PM

No, genius, Osama didn’t just happen to be in the region, he was there helping and fighting alongside the Afghan resistance, which was supported by the U.S.. What don’t you get?

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:23 PM

We were fighting communism. Just because Osama was there, fighting with his fellow muslims, mean that he was on our side.
Now, get back to the subject at hand, gameboy.

HornetSting on November 30, 2009 at 3:25 PM

Proof by pointing to ezine articles, insulting me, changing my username and my message, declaring that I’m wrong and offering no in depth argument of your (as in people that have responded) own doesn’t impress me, either.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:21 PM

Sorry, you fail. First you claim Reagan trained Osama, but offered no proof. Strike one. Then you demanded evidence to the contrary. Strike two – the burden of proof is on you to support your claim. Then you dismissed LibTired’s evidence and moved the goalposts. Strike three, you’re OUT.

Go back to DUmmie land or Kos or wherever you came from.

fossten on November 30, 2009 at 3:25 PM

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:14

Please read the following excerpt from
The United States did not “create” Osama bin Laden
May 1, 2009/america.gov

Marc Sageman worked closely with the Afghan mujahideen as one of Milt Bearden’s case officers, from 1987 to 1989. In his book, Understanding Terror Networks, he writes:

No U.S. official ever came in contact with the foreign volunteers. They simply traveled in different circles and never crossed U.S. radar screens. They had their own sources of money and their own contacts with the Pakistanis, official Saudis, and other Muslim supporters, and they made their own deals with the various Afghan resistance leaders. Their presence in Afghanistan was very small and they did not participate in any significant fighting. (Understanding Terror Networks, pp. 57-58.)

The Central Intelligence Agency has issued a statement categorically denying that it ever had any relationship with Osama bin Laden. It stated, in response to the hypothetical question “Has the CIA ever provided funding, training, or other support to Usama Bin Laden?”:

No. Numerous comments in the media recently have reiterated a widely circulated but incorrect notion that the CIA once had a relationship with Usama Bin Laden. For the record, you should know that the CIA never employed, paid, or maintained any relationship whatsoever with Bin Laden (emphasis in original).

Huckabee commuted Clemmon’s sentence. 4 Seattle Police Officers were killed. He needs to own up to his responsibility in this matter.

kingsjester on November 30, 2009 at 3:26 PM

No, genius, Osama didn’t just happen to be in the region, he was there helping and fighting alongside the Afghan resistance, which was supported by the U.S.. What don’t you get?

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:23 PM

Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you were actually there. Got a photo?

fossten on November 30, 2009 at 3:26 PM

Narutoboy,

Don’t act all surprised when you get banned for threadjacking. In this one thread, the subject of which was explicitly the implications of the Clemmons crime for Mike Huckabee’s political future, you have now tried dozens of times to change the subject to Osama Bin Laden.

You are even more tiresome than the Huckster himself.

Ban, please.

cool breeze on November 30, 2009 at 3:27 PM

HornetSting on November 30, 2009 at 3:25 PM

I guess you meant to say doesn’t mean he was on our side, correct? Well he was on our side. He joined the Afghan resistance (a group that was on our side, that we helped and trained). His purpose of doing so was to fight back against the Russians, which is exactly what we were doing. I don’t see how he wasn’t on our side???

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:28 PM

Narutoboy,

Ban, please.

cool breeze on November 30, 2009 at 3:27 PM

+1

What a hypocrite. First he demands that this thread be something it isn’t, then he jacks it.

fossten on November 30, 2009 at 3:29 PM

I guess you meant to say doesn’t mean he was on our side, correct? Well he was on our side. He joined the Afghan resistance (a group that was on our side, that we helped and trained). His purpose of doing so was to fight back against the Russians, which is exactly what we were doing. I don’t see how he wasn’t on our side???

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:28 PM

Thanks for backpedaling from your position that Reagan trained Osama.

Can we get back on topic now, troll?

fossten on November 30, 2009 at 3:29 PM

…It’s morally equivalent for…

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:14 PM

Right there. There’s your problem, Mastuboboy.

We. Don’t. Do. Moral. Equivalency. Around. Here.

Doorgunner on November 30, 2009 at 3:34 PM

kingsjester on November 30, 2009 at 3:26 PM

Come on kj, everyone knows that we trained and supported the mujahadeen, didn’t you see Rambo III? Grenade tipped arrows and all.

thomasaur on November 30, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Thanks for backpedaling from your position that Reagan trained Osama.

Can we get back on topic now, troll?

fossten on November 30, 2009 at 3:29 PM

I haven’t backpedaled and I haven’t said anything different. And to correct you, I never used the words “Reagan trained Osama.” Actually, he’s completely irrelevant to my point. I said our government was involved with him during the war. Not trolling, making a valid comparison and demonstrated the hypocrisy of some here.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Come on kj, everyone knows that we trained and supported the mujahadeen, didn’t you see Rambo III? Grenade tipped arrows and all.
thomasaur on November 30, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Yeah, I know. And Obama loves America. /

kingsjester on November 30, 2009 at 3:40 PM

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:28 PM

Do you believe a religious nutcup like osama was not concerned for fellow muslims in Afghanistan? I know you are trying to make a point here, but it’s ignorant and has NOTHING to do with current affairs.

Huckprah screwed the pooch.

HornetSting on November 30, 2009 at 3:40 PM

I can think of a couple … Mitch Daniels from ind.
Haley Barbour …Bill Owens …John Thune …

jqusnr on November 30, 2009 at 12:30 PM

Careful about John Thune….. the man is a RINO in disguise, if you look at his voting record. Plus, he’s a vindictive sort. The past couple of years he’s pretty much been trying to fly under the radar, ideologically speaking, because, IMO, he’s got long term political goals on his agenda, and is trying to avoid controversy.

Right now I’m guessing he’s a Mike Huckabee type, without the outward religious trappings.

KendraWilder on November 30, 2009 at 3:42 PM

Come on kj, everyone knows that we trained and supported the mujahadeen, didn’t you see Rambo III? Grenade tipped arrows and all.
thomasaur on November 30, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Yeah, I know. And Obama loves America. /

kingsjester on November 30, 2009 at 3:40 PM

Hey King, I think that was in ‘The Seige’ with Denzel Washington and Bruce Willis. The Afghan fighters felt that they were abadoned by the U.S., so they started blowing crap up in NYC. And, in that movie, we rounded up all the muslim males of a certain age and blah blah blah blah blah.
Pass the popcorn, sugar!

HornetSting on November 30, 2009 at 3:44 PM

A lot of people are just rejoicing over the fact that his career is over with.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:05 PM

This is quite appropriate. We think he is a bad politician, whose political success is correlated with bad things happening (like, for example, convicted felons being released, then going on to rape and/or murder).

Earlier in the thread, some people were discussing the nuances of the arithmetical expression 2+2.

How about this equation:
End of Huackabee’s career = fewer bad things happening = more happiness = reason to rejoice!

RINO in Name Only on November 30, 2009 at 3:44 PM

What a hypocrite. First he demands that this thread be something it isn’t, then he jacks it.

fossten on November 30, 2009 at 3:29 PM

Nice job at taking events out of order. I made a simple comparison and asked why if you’re going to blame Huckabee, you don’t have the same feelings about Osama. That’s when I was asked to prove it and how it got to be about that. The point was a even about Osama. You can taken him out of the equation. Odds are some of those people we directly worked with during the Soviet invasion became terrorists or committed violent acts using weapons and skills they had obtained. I mean it wouldn’t be too far-fetched to think that, because a lot of people in that region felt abandoned by our government after the war and THEY CHOSE (I emphasize that because you guys have tendency of misstating my points) to associate themselves with bad people. That’s basically what happened with Osama and why he started seeing us as evil.

So, for right now, I am willing to give Huckabee the benefit of the doubt because I think his heart was in the right place. Was it a terrible decision? Of course it was.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:45 PM

No, genius, Osama didn’t just happen to be in the region, he was there helping and fighting alongside the Afghan resistance, which was supported by the U.S.. What don’t you get?
Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:23 PM

.
So you claim Osama was a part of the Afghan resistance, as a Saudi? And that because we supported some resistance groups we also trained him? But you don’t have any proof other than “he was over there somewhere”.
So Jim Morrison is actually French since he is buried in France (or at least he was) and since he is “over there somewhere” he must be one of them French people. And if he were alive he would surrender to the Germans in a heartbeat and collaborate by making rich creamy desserts just like all them other French people.
Why don’t you give us a review of Spore and leave the hard thinking to the adults.

LincolntheHun on November 30, 2009 at 3:47 PM

News Flash!

Huck ain’t presidential material…never was.

Jed1899 on November 30, 2009 at 3:49 PM

So you claim Osama was a part of the Afghan resistance, as a Saudi?

Yes. Is that hard to believe or something. A very ideological man (a terrorist now, mind you) linking up with another group to fight invading forces. I don’t believe it!

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:52 PM

Thanks for backpedaling from your position that Reagan trained Osama.
fossten on November 30, 2009 at 3:29 PM

.
Nooo it’s true I saw it on a unedited version of 9/11 Truth Without the Tin Foil, Reagan parachuted into Pakistan, and then with his combination of Rambo and MacGyver skills taught Osama and all the mujahedeen everything they now know. Before Reagan changed them forever Afghanis were pacifists and walked around with Care Bears and safety blankies.
/SARC

LincolntheHun on November 30, 2009 at 3:54 PM

This will be the nail in huckabee’s coffin. Good riddance to the loser!

Shelby on November 30, 2009 at 3:55 PM

So you claim Osama was a part of the Afghan resistance, as a Saudi?

.

Yes. Is that hard to believe or something. A very ideological man (a terrorist now, mind you) linking up with another group to fight invading forces. I don’t believe it!
Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:52 PM

.
So he was not really part of the group, he was a resistance groupie. He was just hanging with the cool resistance fighters. But somehow he received way cool learning via the CIA, cause they just wander the earth looking to teach people to hate the USA.
Your mommy put you up to this didn’t she?

LincolntheHun on November 30, 2009 at 4:00 PM

So, for right now, I am willing to give Huckabee the benefit of the doubt because I think his heart was in the right place. Was it a terrible decision? Of course it was.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 3:45 PM

That’s a problem.

Good intentions mean squat. Lots of people have good intentions but the outcomes are always terrible.

At his core, Huckabee is a liberal.

Liberals are full of good intentions but the consequences of their actions always end up doing more harm than good.

Conservatives focus on results rather than good intentions.

Whatever conservatives wanted, we didn’t fly Huck’s plane into the ground. He did that by himself.

SKYFOX on November 30, 2009 at 2:02 PM

Exactly. Huckabee can’t blame Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin or John McCain. He can’t blame anyone for “smearing” him about Clemmonsgate. He can’t say that the Club for Growth was out to bring him down. He can’t blame the “liberal media” or anything like that.

Huckabee created his own grave and now he has to lie in it.

Conservative Samizdat on November 30, 2009 at 4:07 PM

So he was not really part of the group

Not unless you consider wielding a weapon and fighting off invading forces alongside the group being apart of the group. Your stupidity, sarcasm, whatever you want to call it, is annoying.

By the way, I’m not saying what you imply I am. I have great respect for the USA and the CIA. I’ve consistently defended the CIA in particular from allegations of “torture” and the argument that we are some how morally equivalent to AQ because we waterboard. So, your characterization of me is waaaaaaaaaay off.

Narutoboy on November 30, 2009 at 4:07 PM

HornetSting on November 30, 2009 at 3:44 PM

Here ya go, gorgeous. Tell your hubby to stay safe. I know you worry about him everytime he goes on shift.

kingsjester on November 30, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Kasper Hauser on November 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM

You did know that Arkansas was a state for about 25 years before Kansas?

TugboatPhil on November 30, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Huckabee is sorta a cross between Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. With a little conservative thrown in, if that’s possible.

JellyToast on November 30, 2009 at 4:12 PM

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