Swiss minister: The minaret ban is aimed at fundamentalists, not all Muslims

posted at 8:31 pm on November 30, 2009 by Allahpundit

And yet, it targets structures used by … all Muslims.

A top Swiss official said Monday that voter approval of a ban on minarets next to mosques could be struck down in court, as critics at home and abroad swiftly condemned the vote, saying it undermined the country’s secular image…

“The ban contradicts the European Convention on Human Rights,” Zurich daily Blick cited Widmer-Schlumpf as saying. Switzerland currently presides over the European Court of Human Rights, which rules on breaches of the convention…

Arriving at a meeting of European Union justice ministers, Widmer-Schlumpf argued the vote was not “a referendum against Islam … but a vote directed against fundamentalist developments.”

She defended the referendum as being “about minarets and not, of course, about the Islamic community,” she said. “We are interested in a multi-religious society in Switzerland.”

What’s weird about this is that, for an act of religious discrimination, it’s oddly restrained. They didn’t vote to ban the construction of new mosques; they didn’t vote to demand that the four mosques in the country that already have minarets remove them. They banned construction of new minarets, presumably as a warning to Swiss Muslims that cultural assertiveness — symbolized by the height and visibility of the towers, I guess — will be challenged going forward. It’s the architectural equivalent of banning the burqa (and indeed, per the front-page screenshot, a woman in a burqa was pictured on ads supporting the referendum). But if the goal is assimilation or, at the very least, quiescence, how likely is it to achieve that goal? Says the Journal:

There is no denying the connection between radical imams and terrorist acts. Nor should anyone look away from the fact that too many European Muslims flatly reject the norms of their host countries, sometimes in ways that are criminal: honor killings, child brides and the like.

Yet banning minarets does nothing to address that fear. It merely makes it less likely that the average Swiss will be confronted by a visible symbol of Islam upon his skyline. Thus, even as a symbolic gesture, it seems to encourage a head-in-the-sand approach toward the 5% of Swiss who are Muslim. In much of Europe, this is the norm anyway, the result of political correctness and cowardice.

Rather than being a blow against that attitude, Sunday’s vote seems only to reinforce it.

I don’t think it’s a head-in-the-sand approach, I think it’s a minimalist approach: They know they’re discriminating, and in order to reconcile that as best they can with Enlightenment values, they’re going to discriminate as little and as cosmetically as possible. (Needless to say, the referendum would be grossly unconstitutional in the U.S.) LauraW and DrewM make the point at Ace’s site that this is, to some extent, a populist reaction to European bureaucrats papering over cultural differences with Muslims for fear of giving offense, but I wonder what the Swiss are looking for in concrete terms. Muslim emigration from Switzerland? If that happens, neighboring countries will move quickly to enact bans of their own. What if the Muslim population of Switzerland continues to rise? Would that warrant a ban on new mosques, or something worse? And what if jihadis decide to target Switzerland now? Does that warrant extending the ban or repealing it in fear? A lot of players are suddenly in motion here, and it’s hard to imagine a scenario in which the discrimination doesn’t gradually get much worse.

Exit question: If you’re going to make a move like this, why not at least tie it to the sort of discrimination non-Muslims routinely experience in the Muslim world? E.g., “One new minaret will be permitted for every church built in Saudi Arabia”? At least that way the scrutiny is shared.


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If you’re going to make a move like this, why not at least tie it to the sort of discrimination non-Muslims routinely experience in the Muslim world? E.g., “One new minaret will be permitted for every church built in Saudi Arabia”? At least that way the scrutiny is shared.

Ooh. Good call, AP.

Red Cloud on November 30, 2009 at 8:34 PM

Minarets are a public overt statement of assumed superiority, meant to show dominance and assert Islam ( submission )

I’m proud of the Swiss; first they declined the Great Honor of joining the EU, now this.

Janos Hunyadi on November 30, 2009 at 8:35 PM

I’m with Michael Savage about islam. It needs to be outlawed in America for sure. Hopefully this is where the Swiss are going with this.

V

SouthernGent on November 30, 2009 at 8:35 PM

Islam will dominate you kuffar

blatantblue on November 30, 2009 at 8:36 PM

Its those evil RightWingers,once again!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minaret_controversy_in_Switzerland

And I say,long overdo!!!

canopfor on November 30, 2009 at 8:36 PM

When does CAIR,make a trip to Switzerland to demand a
reversal!!

canopfor on November 30, 2009 at 8:37 PM

Well,looks like Jihady Wacko’s have a new place to
bomb,crap,I meant protest!(Sarc).

canopfor on November 30, 2009 at 8:39 PM

Allah will crush you all in his grasp, insha’allah

blatantblue on November 30, 2009 at 8:39 PM

I wonder what Robert Spencer thinks about all of this…?

Seven Percent Solution on November 30, 2009 at 8:40 PM

Janos Hunyadi on November 30, 2009 at 8:35 PM

Exactly right- there is no discrimination against Muslims or mosques here, merely the minaret, a political as well as religious symbol of Muslim domination.

It’s an important distinction to make- the Swiss aren’t trying to prevent Muslims from worshipping in any way. Might be worth noting that in the main article Ed. I believe Robert Spencer wrote at length some time ago about the significance of the minaret.

I note too the almost universal silence on Hamas banning women from dancing and girls from riding scooters-

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/11/hamas-bans-girls-on-motor-scooters-and-women-dancing.html

Jay Mac on November 30, 2009 at 8:45 PM

It’s an important distinction to make- the Swiss aren’t trying to prevent Muslims from worshipping in any way. Might be worth noting that in the main article Ed.

I wrote this, not Ed, and I did note it in the post. I said they’re not banning mosques or demanding that old minarets be torn down.

Allahpundit on November 30, 2009 at 8:46 PM

To me this seems to be a way for people to say: We want to keep the identity of the country. It seems to me if NOTHING is done all of Europe will be transformed into a Islamo-zone. I personally am a big proponent of freedom and allowing government to outlaw anything seems a bad approach to me but I certainly understand the sentiment. The right solution is to stop the spread of secularism among Christians; grow and expand Christianity and root out Islam that way

wiseprince on November 30, 2009 at 8:49 PM

I really hope Islam destroys all you pathetic Christians and atheists

blatantblue on November 30, 2009 at 8:49 PM

Be happy.

The Swiss chose a ‘peaceful’ way of saying:

My rules or get out.

May others follow their example.

CPT. Charles on November 30, 2009 at 8:49 PM

I’m ready to move to switzerland!!

finally someone in the west has some guts…

right4life on November 30, 2009 at 8:51 PM

Minarets are a public overt statement of assumed superiority, meant to show dominance and assert Islam ( submission )

Sounds like what a feminist would say about any phallic symbol. Just saying.

El_Terrible on November 30, 2009 at 8:51 PM

Exit question: If you’re going to make a move like this, why not at least tie it to the sort of discrimination non-Muslims routinely experience in the Muslim world? E.g., “One new minaret will be permitted for every church built in Saudi Arabia”? At least that way the scrutiny is shared.

I like the way you think! A quid pro quo that you know isn’t going to happen…which highlights the lack of tolerance that frightens you into passing such a law in the first place.

AUINSC on November 30, 2009 at 8:52 PM

I really hope Islam destroys all you pathetic Christians and atheists

blatantblue on November 30, 2009 at 8:49 PM

in the short run, they will…the anti-christ BEHEADS his opponents…hmmmm…wonder where he gets that at??

right4life on November 30, 2009 at 8:52 PM

Village green preservation society.

Daveyardbird on November 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM

“One new minaret will be permitted for every church built in Saudi Arabia”?

This would let them convince themselves it’s not discrimination.

It’s tough to judge any European country that makes a move like this, given how far progressed the islamization of Europe is. My gut reaction is to not like the ban, but again, it’s tough to judge.

BadgerHawk on November 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM

Islam is the self proclaimed enemy of the West. They should leave all western countries and return to their 15th century hellholes. All official muslim entities should be terminated and banned as a function of enemies of our state. Get the muslims out now. The bodies of the good people are piling up. I don\’t see the \’moderate\’ muslims purging their mosques of radical murdering islamists. They are the enemy, ALL of them.Whose relatives and loved ones will be the next victims? Will it be a school? Muslims seem to prefer killing young students in other parts of the world. Surely obama and his regime are in league with these murderers, remember Ft Hood, 9-11, 7-7, Spanish train bombs, and on and on. What part of the islam murderers are you missing. The Swiss have a set, obama and the dems in charge could care less about the dead, wounded and survivors. They\’re blaming the victims, and spending all their energy stealing the US treasure.

frizzbee on November 30, 2009 at 8:54 PM

Islam is not a religion in the western sense of the word…it’s an engine of geo political subjugation. It is wise for governments to exercise discernment when dealing with other religions within their borders along with the encroaching agenda of islam. If Christians (etc.) are marginalized in the process, so be it. We will suffer under it well. As it is, I hope for reason to trump political correctness. There might be peaceful muslims, but, Islam as an international force is a danger to democratic, western societies.

Diane on November 30, 2009 at 8:54 PM

Diane on November 30, 2009 at 8:54 PM

It’s both a religious and political system

blatantblue on November 30, 2009 at 8:54 PM

This has nothing to do with assimilation. Europeans have never embraced that notion. This is about slowly turning up the heat so that Muslims feel uncomfortable enough to go back where they came from.

fivefeetoffury on November 30, 2009 at 8:56 PM

Not so oddly or surprisingly that the msm portrayed/twisted the referendum as being anti-immigration.

jdkchem on November 30, 2009 at 8:56 PM

The Swiss are so cute. Like all Yerps, everything is fine unless the visuals are spoiled.

They (like all of Europe) should never have allowed mass immigration. We’re doing the same here. The Europeans, however, always have a tipping point. That’s when the wars start. History repeating itself. Think France and Car-be-Ques. Think the Gates of Vienna. But also remember that Germany forsake the Jews embracing Muslims during WW11.
They got what they bargained for. Europeans always play with fire.

It’s been a while, but the Europeans despite spouting lofty ideals are heading right back into a war zone.

This time, I hope the US will let them have at it. Europeans have been making back door deals with their Muslim trading partners behind our backs despite ongoing sanctions.

As real estate agents say, “It’s location, location, location!” That should be our policy this time around. However, the Yerps will be counting on us dumb Yanks to save their gravy. No more, folks.

Don’t like the minarets? Don’t like the honor killings? Don’t like the Car-be-Ques? Well, stuff it. No more American lives for the feckless, unreliable Europeans. Fight your wars, and soak the ground with your own blood. You’ve done it for centuries. It was only until the last century that you could enlist unwitting Yanks. But no more.

Europeans make their own decisions. Die on your ground.

I don’t know how the rest of you Yanks feel, but I’m done with Europe.

Cody1991 on November 30, 2009 at 8:57 PM

fivefeetoffury on November 30, 2009 at 8:56 PM

So if we ban construction of more Taco Bells then. . . . .

jdkchem on November 30, 2009 at 8:57 PM

I really hope Islam destroys all you pathetic Christians and atheists

Don’t worry, with this Obamanation as president I’m sure it will.(but the atheists will enjoy seeing Christians persecuted)

royzer on November 30, 2009 at 8:58 PM

but the atheists will enjoy seeing Christians persecuted)

royzer on November 30, 2009 at 8:58 PM

They won’t be around, because they will be the first to go (sorry, AP).

blatantblue on November 30, 2009 at 8:59 PM

Feminists came out big in support of this measure; guess they don’t like the idea of being shut away in the house 23/7.

Bishop on November 30, 2009 at 9:00 PM

The ignorant people wouldn’t do the right thing argument.

How many Christian churches can be built in Saudi Arabia?

tarpon on November 30, 2009 at 9:01 PM

They (like all of Europe) should never have allowed mass immigration. We’re doing the same here. The Europeans, however, always have a tipping point. That’s when the wars start. History repeating itself. Think France and Car-be-Ques. Think the Gates of Vienna. But also remember that Germany forsake the Jews embracing Muslims during WW11.
They got what they bargained for. Europeans always play with fire.

yeah Charles Martel must be spinning in his grave…but this move would make him a little happier…

we really need him around today…

right4life on November 30, 2009 at 9:02 PM

I can’t say I support this move. The issue was always sold to me as political correctness wielded by islamofascists limiting the free speech of others and gaining the right to enforce Sharia Law as they do in the UK.

I can’t see that legitimate issue being solved by institutionalized religious discrimination against Muslims.

This just brings the West down to the middle east’s level.

jhffmn on November 30, 2009 at 9:03 PM

I don’t know how the rest of you Yanks feel, but I’m done with Europe.

Cody1991 on November 30, 2009 at 8:57 PM

Cody1991: America has bailed out Europe twice,and after
huge grave sites of US and Canadian soldiers
I’m starting to wonder as well!!:)

canopfor on November 30, 2009 at 9:05 PM

This just brings the West down to the middle east’s level.

jhffmn on November 30, 2009 at 9:03 PM

wish we were at their level…then we wouldn’t have a fundamentalist islamic problem..

right4life on November 30, 2009 at 9:05 PM

Sorry to pop the party, but when I see “Switzerland” in the context of “women’s rights”:

“Women were granted the right to vote in the first Swiss cantons in 1959, at the federal level in 1971 and, after resistance, in the last canton Appenzell Innerrhoden in 1990. After suffrage at the federal level women quickly rose in political significance, with the first woman on the seven member Federal Council executive being Elisabeth Kopp who served from 1984–1989.”

Effectively this means that at a time when most of the Turkish immigrants came to Switzerland, their women couldn’t vote there – whereas they could in their country of origin since 1931.

Think about it. And then tell me how on earth it’s worthwile to make the case of Switzerland being “concerned about women’s rights.”

Niko on November 30, 2009 at 9:07 PM

The Swiss are so cute. Like all Yerps, everything is fine unless the visuals are spoiled.

Funny thing about the Swiss. I always thought they were this harmless little country, until I learned about their take on gun control.

RINO in Name Only on November 30, 2009 at 9:08 PM

Exit question: If you’re going to make a move like this, why not at least tie it to the sort of discrimination non-Muslims routinely experience in the Muslim world? E.g., “One new minaret will be permitted for every church built in Saudi Arabia”? At least that way the scrutiny is shared.

Safe exit answer for the left, right and center….”we may never know” or “splunge”

BL@KBIRD on November 30, 2009 at 9:09 PM

I`d really love to hear Gwyneth Paltrow spout off how much more tolerant and superior Europeans are.

ThePrez on November 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM

canopfor on November 30, 2009 at 9:05 PM

It’s only a matter of time before they come whining to us for help.

A British friend of mine put it in the plainest of terms. Europeans play us for fools, and we have been fools.

There is no reason to help them. The Brits and the Europeans still regard the rest of the world as their colonies. Whenever they require help we’re supposed to come running.

If they are so “superior”, as they claim, they should know how to manage their affairs. That isn’t how they think, however. We are simply still colonials who are forever indebted to them. And why not? The USA has provided defense for Europe for decades. Our Navy? God forbid the rest of the world protect trade!

Screw Europe. After all these decades and the prosperity they have enjoyed they can look after themselves. I despise Europe and for the most part the Brits as well. They made their choices. They can live and/or die with them.

Cody1991 on November 30, 2009 at 9:15 PM

I wonder if Widmer-Schlumpf would be fine with having Big Swastikas over buildings in Europe as it would be pretty much the same thing.

MB4 on November 30, 2009 at 9:16 PM

Cody1991 on November 30, 2009 at 9:15 PM

I say we make Europe part of our new empire, smack `em around for a bit then toss them aside, “you`re free!”

ThePrez on November 30, 2009 at 9:17 PM

It doesn’t matter. The political elites can argue and debate about how their ‘human rights’ have been violated because of this.

AP, why would it be unconstitutional in the US when we are every day banning crosses and Christian displays?

The intellectuals can say all they want about how terrible this is. How is it going to end AP? You might want to google ‘The Crusades’. This time it will be led by secular entities instead of the Catholic Church.

Eventually it will come to arms and might will make right as has been the case throughout history. You don’t get to claim superiority by passing legislation when the guy you are restricting is holding a gun to your head.

ThackerAgency on November 30, 2009 at 9:18 PM

As a Swiss citizen I of course voted FOR the ban and the result of this vote made me very proud of my country !

Sure, it’s an embarrassment for the Swiss government, this is great as it may teaches them and other leftist European authorities a lesson : STOP all immigration from muslim countries and STOP saying that islam is a peaceful religion !

Sure also that all other European governments are scared to death because they know that it’s very likely that this vote would show more or less the same results in all of them (hello fWance…).

Next step : let’s ban burkas and tchadors in public and outlaw the coran “as it is”.

Personal message to all those who are unhappy with this vote : you are free to get the hell out of OUR countries and emigrate to any muslim country, bon voyage !

The Swiss showed the right path, now it’s your turn !

mosxquito on November 30, 2009 at 9:21 PM

How many Christian churches can be built in Saudi Arabia?

tarpon on November 30, 2009 at 9:01 PM

I think that it is one for every 1,000 Christians beheaded.

MB4 on November 30, 2009 at 9:25 PM

And one more thing with regard to Europe.

They are NOT in any way superior to us. Not in any way. I suffered that misapprehension for many years until I finally found my senses. I came home. Not only did I come back, I found the most conservative, Yank-loving place in the US to live.

There is no reason on earth for the US to be like any other country. We can’t be. We are unique by birth, and we are unique and fortunate in our location. Think about it. This is what makes us Americans. That’s what makes us great.

We can give and give, but sometimes I get tired of all the giving. How do the rest of you feel? I’d like to see something in return, but maybe I’m just being cranky.

Cody1991 on November 30, 2009 at 9:26 PM

Allah hates you this I know
For the Koran tells me so
Infidels Christians and Jews we bomb
They are weak but we are strong

Yes Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you,
The Koran tells me so.

Allah hates you, you will die
Blow your ass up to the sky
Build another Minaret, say the salat, chop off head,
Eat falafel, go to bed.

Yes, Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you!

The Koran tells me so.

Aleph on November 30, 2009 at 9:31 PM

The Swiss showed the right path, now it’s your turn !

mosxquito on November 30, 2009 at 9:21 PM

Good for you! I’m proud of you!

It’s time for people to stand up. Just tell them to pi$$ off. Pay them to leave or whatever. Send them back if they don’t like things in Switzerland. National identity is a good thing. The Saudis certainly think so. :)

Cody1991 on November 30, 2009 at 9:31 PM

The Swiss people know what the government refuses to see. They think they are secular but not for long. The plan is a takeover. Not melting, not blending. You are Islam or you will die.

faol on November 30, 2009 at 9:34 PM

Why can’t HotAir bring the comments down from the ‘headlines’ section. I hate it when this happens!!
:)

just sayin’

bridgetown on November 30, 2009 at 9:35 PM

“One new minaret will be permitted for every church built in Saudi Arabia”? At least that way the scrutiny is shared.

That’s a great idea!!! OR, how about, “allow non muslims to travel to Mecca!”

That would certainly shut some of these people up when they start talking about “Universal Values”

bridgetown on November 30, 2009 at 9:37 PM

wish we were at their level…then we wouldn’t have a fundamentalist islamic problem..

right4life on November 30, 2009 at 9:05 PM

Well, I’d certainly end up getting stoned to death.

jhffmn on November 30, 2009 at 9:38 PM

Islam is a Political movement that seeks power. Religion should have freedom to influence laws, but not freedom to control people directly.

PrezHussein on November 30, 2009 at 9:42 PM

Well, I’d certainly end up getting stoned to death.

jhffmn on November 30, 2009 at 9:38 PM

They do like hashish.

faol on November 30, 2009 at 9:46 PM

If you want a laugh, you should go see how the dorks at Daily Kos are reacting to this. The are divided right in half between the “Europeans are always right” brigade and the “Europeans are always racist” side.

Speedwagon82 on November 30, 2009 at 9:47 PM

Imagine there’s no Islam
It’s hard but you can try
No suicide hijackers coming down at us
Above us only sky
Imagine all those people
Still alive today…

Imagine there’s no Islamic countries
It’s hard but you can try
No Mohammad for them to kill or die for
And no Minarets and no Imams too
Imagine all the Christians, Jews and Infidels
Living life without them…

You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday all dhimmis will join us
And the non-Islamic world will be as one

Imagine no Burkas and no honor killings
I wonder if you can
No need for Medina or Meca
A brotherhood of non-Islamic woman and man
Imagine all the people
Living without Sharia and stonings…

You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday all dhimmis will join us
And the non-Islamic world will be as one

MB4 on November 30, 2009 at 9:52 PM

(Needless to say, the referendum would be grossly unconstitutional in the U.S.)

Hmmmm, a federal referendum on anything would be “grossly unconstitutional”, I suppose. I mean, where does the federal constitution permit a federal referendum? If you mean that the subject of the referendum would be grossly unconstitutional, I refer you to Reynolds v. United States.

Knott Buyinit on November 30, 2009 at 9:56 PM

MB4 on November 30, 2009 at 9:52 PM

JL is spinning like a top.

faol on November 30, 2009 at 9:58 PM

Widmer-Schlumpf

His name is Dedicator-Smurf?

Tzetzes on November 30, 2009 at 10:07 PM

JL is spinning like a top.

faol on November 30, 2009 at 9:58 PM

Yes, he probably would not appreciate my version even though it is a big improvement.

MB4 on November 30, 2009 at 10:11 PM

MB4 on November 30, 2009 at 10:11 PM

And sung with such gusto!

faol on November 30, 2009 at 10:14 PM

The Muslims of today are accomplishing through the wimpiness/appeasement of Libtardism what they couldn’t accomplish with the sword 600 years ago.

They should make a deal. For every mosque set up in Europe, allow a new church to be built in Islam.

Dr. ZhivBlago on November 30, 2009 at 10:15 PM

Well, I’d certainly end up getting stoned to death.

jhffmn on November 30, 2009 at 9:38 PM

the way things are going, they’ll oblige you, don’t worry.

they have no respect for their appeasers…

right4life on November 30, 2009 at 10:19 PM

I, like most Americans, was taught to respect liberty and the rights of others. That includes freedom of religion.

I viewed Islam as one of Great Religions and was educated in that manner at university in my Comparative Religion course.

Unfortunately my understanding of the Koran and Islam through study of the Koran and history in general combined with the present state of affairs in which Islam is active and violent in its quest for world jihad including the total destruction of Israel leaves me with a very realistic view that Islam is just plain dangerous.

Islam decided from its inception that is was the one true word of God and that religions such as Judaism and Christianity were not and that they present mistaken interpretations of the word of God. It was intolerant then. So was Christianity during hundreds of years of its history. The point here is that other Great Religions do not any longer require one to believe in their faith or else. Islam does require this. Therefore, it is Islam alone that remains intolerant.

Europe is finding this out firsthand. The very wishy-washy tolerance and stress on diversity to the limit of lunacy is what has allowed, ironically, an intolerant Islam to act the bully in Europe and the West. Even Israel has been much to soft on Islam by conceding territory only to find it has brought hamas and hezbollah closer with their rockets. Democracy is being underminded by the very diversity gone mad it cherished to the detriment of real freedom and the joy of the Islam. Islam undermines free democracies in every country to which it spreads.

Malaysia? Forget about it. Too late. They confiscate Bibles there now.

Indonesia? Too late.

Philippines? Many of its islands are Islamic camps.

This piece by allahpundit is plain wrong and represents a surprising degree of head in the sandness.

I cheer the Swiss. Islam has earned its bad reputation and need no longer be coddled by the West.

If calling it a religion is a problem, I say we no longer call it a religion, but more a dangerous cult.

Dangerous cults may be regulated with impunity for the safety of society.

Islam has had its chance to behave in the West, but has blown that one in a very big way. It needs a time out.

I no longer write Islam. I write islam. I write muslim. I write sharia law, I write koran.

Until islam knows how to participate in a free world, it will remain islam and not Islam for me.

islam is the enemy of liberty and freedom.

http://www.jihadwatch.org is a very good source of information on this global menace.

See also http://www.carolineglick.com

If Islam is islam and treated like the dangerous entity it is, there is logically no discrimination in regulating it.

The danger lies in NOT regulating it.

Way to go, the Swiss who reject what has happened to Europe and Great Britain.

I say yes to freedom of religion. But I say no to any so-called religion which would take away my freedom. Actually I prefer a peaceful nutty cult to a non-peaceful dangerous terrorist sponsoring “religion” if that is what it is.

Finally, Iran is the enabler of global jihad. Why, these nice hamas fata hezbollah folks even have “meetings” in Iran.

Sound good to you?

Oh, by the way, when are we gonna send our next super super harshly worded letter to Iran?? That should do the trick.

All carrot and no stick makes Jack a dead boy.

By the way, I do consider myself Christian, but I sure have not been to Church in a while. But that is not the point.

Or perhaps it is.

Sherman1864 on November 30, 2009 at 10:37 PM

Paging Charles Martel … Charles Martel …. Hellooo …

OldEnglish on November 30, 2009 at 10:40 PM

Think the Swiss are being mean to the Muslims? They have nothing on Ed Morrissey and his gang of local racists!!!11!!

I imagine the police call the patrol in Little Mogadishu, Blackhawk?

There is risk of a diversity loss here. And it seems to be coming from all the non Muslims, not just the far right like Ed. : )

BL@KBIRD on November 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM

Think about it. And then tell me how on earth it’s worthwile to make the case of Switzerland being “concerned about women’s rights.”

Niko on November 30, 2009 at 9:07 PM

Ironically, it seems that women voted for this ban overwhelmingly. If women didn’t have the right to vote, this ban probably wouldn’t have passed. Great point Niko. /s

ThackerAgency on November 30, 2009 at 10:46 PM

Exit question: If you’re going to make a move like this, why not at least tie it to the sort of discrimination non-Muslims routinely experience in the Muslim world? E.g., “One new minaret will be permitted for every church built in Saudi Arabia”? At least that way the scrutiny is shared.

Non-Muslim discrimination? Church not allowed in Saudi Arabia although Jesus is a supposed profit in Islam? Beheading non-believers? Throwing acid at young girls for trying to get an education? Must cover up the women or all hell may break loose? Destroy non Muslim cultural artifacts? What a short list this is. Meh, welcome to planet Mars. I’ll be over in my spaceship thinking this one through.
There is a difference between cultural Islam and the world, I can’t even say western here, that speaks volumes.

disillusioned on November 30, 2009 at 10:58 PM

I’m with Michael Savage about islam. It needs to be outlawed in America for sure. Hopefully this is where the Swiss are going with this.

V

SouthernGent on November 30, 2009 at 8:35 PM

Yeah, **** the constitution.

Darth Executor on November 30, 2009 at 11:34 PM

Hundreds or millions of “moderate Muslims”. No such thing as a moderate Islam. Period.

James Moriarty on November 30, 2009 at 11:43 PM

Darth Executor on November 30, 2009 at 11:34 PM

An odd statement. I wouldn’t agree with the commented statement either.

disillusioned on November 30, 2009 at 11:50 PM

Just ordered a Breitling Navitimer online in appreciation of the Swiss vote.

Norwegian on November 30, 2009 at 11:51 PM

Can’t wait till they outlaw Islam….That is a treaty I could support!

Tim Burton on November 30, 2009 at 11:51 PM

I really hope Islam destroys all you pathetic Christians and atheists

blatantblue on November 30, 2009 at 8:49 PM

destroys
A very strong and meaningful word. Is it only Christians and atheists? Do you wish for Islam to destroy all except the faithful to Islam, or just pathetic Christians and atheists?

IowaWoman on November 30, 2009 at 11:53 PM

Ban islam. It’s a seditious, treasonous foreign political force, not a religion. It was made up by a pedophile madman to justify his military conquests, it has no claim to any of the Judeo-Christian heritage.

wildcat84 on November 30, 2009 at 11:54 PM

destroys
A very strong and meaningful word. Is it only Christians and atheists? Do you wish for Islam to destroy all except the faithful to Islam, or just pathetic Christians and atheists?

IowaWoman on November 30, 2009 at 11:53 PM

Like most islamists, he/she/it also means muslims who aren’t muslim enough. As in, those who aren’t strapping bombs to themselves and screaming “allah akbar” fast enough.

wildcat84 on November 30, 2009 at 11:55 PM

Too little too late.

Shy Guy on November 30, 2009 at 11:59 PM

I want Islam exposed for what it truly is – a supremacist miltary and political system cloaked in pseudo-religion.

Connie on December 1, 2009 at 12:00 AM

IowaWoman on November 30, 2009 at 11:53 PM

If you knew blatantblue, you’d know that he’s playing the part.

Obviously, he did very well.

Shy Guy on December 1, 2009 at 12:01 AM

I want Islam exposed for what it truly is – a supremacist miltary and political system cloaked in pseudo-religion.

Connie on December 1, 2009 at 12:00 AM

A “religion” that is completely the invention of an insane madman. Much like scientology.

Given that it’s “prophet” was an insane conquering megalomaniac, its insane doctrines make perfect sense.

I, for one, am GREATLY offended when I hear people speak the blasphemy that “allah” is the same God Yahweh that we Christians and our Jewish brothers worship.

It is not. In fact, there is plenty of historical evidence that muhammed based his “allah” on a pagan moon god of a similar name (with the crescent as it’s symbol) of Arabia.

wildcat84 on December 1, 2009 at 12:06 AM

Under a secular government ALL religions should be treated the same, including Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Secular Progressivism and Environmentalism. If the freedom and liberties of a nation are being suppressed because of any of the above religions, then the people have a right to level the playing field. That is what a democracy is all about.

DL13 on December 1, 2009 at 12:08 AM

It is not. In fact, there is plenty of historical evidence that muhammed based his “allah” on a pagan moon god of a similar name (with the crescent as it’s symbol) of Arabia.

wildcat84 on December 1, 2009 at 12:06 AM

Even if it’s historically true, that’s not at all what they’ve believed according to Islam’s teachings. So it’s a very mute point.

What you might simply want to consider is a little reciprocation.

Shy Guy on December 1, 2009 at 12:11 AM

If the freedom and liberties of a nation are being suppressed because of any of the above religions, then the people have a right to level the playing field. That is what a democracy is all about.

DL13 on December 1, 2009 at 12:08 AM

What about Nazis? How about the KKK?

Shy Guy on December 1, 2009 at 12:13 AM

DL13, I may have misunderstood your post.

Shy Guy on December 1, 2009 at 12:13 AM

Under a secular government ALL religions should be treated the same, including Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Secular Progressivism and Environmentalism. If the freedom and liberties of a nation are being suppressed because of any of the above religions, then the people have a right to level the playing field. That is what a democracy is all about.

DL13 on December 1, 2009 at 12:08 AM

Western Civilization was made possible because of the tolerance towards innovation inherent in Judeo-Christianity.

islam is very narrow minded and hostile to such things. Which is why every country that has been subjugated by it is backward and uncivilized by comparison.

Had Christianity not been an advantage, Europe never would have grown out of the dark ages to surpass the technology and military might of the islamic world, which remained stuck in the same century of it’s ascendancy (the 7th).

Past that time, only the Turks ever advanced into modern times, and even at that, a few centuries of being islamicised sapped them of their intellectual vitality and caused them to fall rapidly behind Europe so as to collapse in the 19th Century.

wildcat84 on December 1, 2009 at 12:13 AM

…all Muslims. Stopping the structures is a good start. We need push back against their religion until they accomplish a reformation that destroys the Jihadis from within…they need get out of the 6th century, all of them!

jwp1964 on December 1, 2009 at 12:17 AM

Shy Guy on December 1, 2009 at 12:01 AM


Thanks for the clue

IowaWoman on December 1, 2009 at 12:18 AM

That is what a democracy is all about.

DL13 on December 1, 2009 at 12:08 AM

So the question becomes, when does democracy conflict with a given constitution.

disillusioned on December 1, 2009 at 12:22 AM

I can’t believe conservatives are cheering this on. The same conservatives who flip out at any suggestion they don’t respect religious liberty.

RightOFLeft on December 1, 2009 at 12:53 AM

I can’t believe conservatives are cheering this on. The same conservatives who flip out at any suggestion they don’t respect religious liberty.

RightOFLeft on December 1, 2009 at 12:53 AM

I’m sure the Swedes made the same arguments back in the early days of Muslim immigration to Sweden. I bet they’re having second thoughts now that their daughters are getting gang-raped by Muslim men who consider them infidel whores for not wearing burkas when they’re outside.

Do you people have no survival instinct?

venividivici on December 1, 2009 at 1:08 AM

What about Nazis? How about the KKK?

Shy Guy on December 1, 2009 at 12:13 AM
==========================================================
You are right; perhaps I should have included them in my sarcasm, but, my main attack was on the way the Muslims, Atheists etc are given precedence over the laws of our land, which are based on our Judeo-Christian heritage. Enjoy.

DL13 on December 1, 2009 at 1:11 AM

RightOFLeft on December 1, 2009 at 12:53 AM

It’s not that simple. Study Islam. I used to have the idea that Islam was “just another religion.” I started studying it for reasons other than 9/11. Frankly, it took me less than 2 weeks to be able to understand the propaganda you are being fed.

Connie on December 1, 2009 at 1:13 AM

AP, why would it be unconstitutional in the US when we are every day banning crosses and Christian displays?

ThackerAgency on November 30, 2009 at 9:18 PM

The *government* is banned from displaying crosses and Christian displays, due to the Establishment Clause of the Constitution.

This ban is totally different — it bans *private* entities from displaying something religious. It’s not even remotely the same.

tneloms on December 1, 2009 at 1:34 AM

venividivici on December 1, 2009 at 1:08 AM

Can you provide context or sources to your statements?

disillusioned on December 1, 2009 at 2:20 AM

Your attitude towards islam or your lack of attitude matters not one wit.
When push comes to shove, you have three options. Convert, submit or die.
See how Christians live in Saudi Arabia…oh wait. You’ll have a hard time finding any that aren’t on a State leash. They are arrested and deported for practicing Christianity there. Images in movies that have the cross or any sign of Christianity are blurred or censored altogether. Strange to see Crusaders with blurred shields and emblems on their chests. Christian obscenities to be censored lest they offend the muslim supremacist.
When the population of muslims within a nation reaches the point where the muslims are the majority, that nation becomes an islamic one by default. sharia law takes hold and personal freedom ends.
Where do you draw the line on cancer? Do you tolerate it in your toe as long as it stays there only? At what point does the disease become actionable?
At the start I say. No to special areas in public buildings for muslims only to pray in. No foot baths in airports, schools or work places. The line must be drawn before the first step is taken.
I do not hate muslims, I hate what their religion does to free men. It enslaves them and makes cattle of their women.
The religion will not police itself. This much is clear. Surely a billion good muslims could end the violence carried out by the few “misunderstanders of islam” that spill Blood and spread Death in the name of a meaningless, randomly chosen moon god called allah.
They choose not to. They turn a blind eye to their more enthusiastic brothers and sisters habit of killing and maiming to spread islam by the sword.
One can hate the sin and not the sinner…and islam has got to go. It will not change as long as good muslims remain silent when they see the violence and hatred preached by their imams and ayatoilets manifest itself in murder at the hands of their neighbors. They have had ample time and nothing has changed. The last 1400 years prove it.

No islam
Know Peace.
Know islam
Throw up.
This so called religion excreted from the mind of a perverted mass murdering desert bandit to allow him to explore his deviant sexual appetites and enrich himself

Army Brat on December 1, 2009 at 2:45 AM

might there be a Muslim commenter to disagree with any previous post, or is this a one-sided conversation?

disillusioned on December 1, 2009 at 3:00 AM

Sorry for co fusing you and Ed, AP. And the point I thought should be highlighted in the main article is the fact that the minaret is not solely a religious symbol but a political one too, signifying Islam’s dominance over the region in which it is raised.

The Swiss evidently understand this but it seems far too many are unaware.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/08/swiss-government-pro-minaret.html

Jay Mac on December 1, 2009 at 4:48 AM

The 60 most dangerous Questions for Muslims to hear…cause it pisses them off.

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-questions.htm

might there be a Muslim commenter to disagree with any previous post, or is this a one-sided conversation?

disillusioned on December 1, 2009 at 3:00 AM

It is difficult to defend the indefensible. Many have tried. All have failed. It ends in obscenity and personal attack…racism etc…
I’ve hung around at Jihadwatch long enough to have seen the many forms that the defense of islam can take. I see it as coming down to the source…mo. (Piss Be Upon Him) He, in my most humble opinion, lacks credibility.

Army Brat on December 1, 2009 at 5:06 AM

If you’re going to make a move like this, why not at least tie it to the sort of discrimination non-Muslims routinely experience in the Muslim world? E.g., “One new minaret will be permitted for every church built in Saudi Arabia”? At least that way the scrutiny is shared.

No I don’t agree with that. How can any country make its laws conditional on what some other country, thousands of miles away, does? Switzerland is a nation, not a political project.

Plus, minarets are an optional feature on mosques.

aengus on December 1, 2009 at 6:15 AM

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