Weird science: East Anglia CRU threw out their raw data

posted at 11:00 am on November 29, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

When would scientists expecting the world to take them seriously throw out the raw data on which their conclusions are based?  Probably at the same time that they e-mail each other to launch professional vendettas against skeptics and conspire to hide contradictory data.  The University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit — already in a deep scandal over the e-mails released by either a hacker or a whistleblower that shows highly unscientific behavior behind the scenes — now admits they threw out the raw data on which much of their theories on anthropogenic global warming are based (via Fausta):

SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.

The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.

The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building.

So now the only data that other scientists can check are those that have been, er, adjusted by UEA-CRU.  Were those “adjustments” proper?  Did they have a scientific basis for making those adjustments?  Were there any gaps in the data?

We’ll never know now, will we?  And after the release of the e-mails that show UEA-CRU deliberately kneecapping other scientists who dared venture from the heterodoxy and discuss methods of hiding contradictory data and findings, it’s hard to believe that this wasn’t by design rather than carelessness.  After all, without that raw data, the world would have to just take UEA-CRU’s word for it — and until those e-mails got released, it seems that most people would have done so.

Now, though, even some AGW scientists say that the scientists involved in the UEA-CRU scandal have to go.  One of the contributors to the UN IPCC effort, Dr. Eduardo Zorita, says that several of the people involved in the IPCC should be banned, the result of their credibility deficit.  Climate Depot has Zorita’s statement:

CRU files: Why I think that Michael Mann, Phil Jones and Stefan Rahmstorf should be barred from the IPCC process.

Short answer: because the scientific assessments in which they may take part are not credible anymore.

A longer answer: My voice is not very important. I belong to the climate-research infantry, publishing a few papers per year, reviewing a few manuscript per year and participating in a few research projects. I do not form part of important committees, nor I pursue a public awareness of my activities. My very minor task in the public arena was to participate as a contributing author in the Fourth Assessment Report of the IPCC.

By writing these lines I will just probably achieve that a few of my future studies will, again, not see the light of publication. My area of research happens to be the climate of the past millennia, where I think I am appreciated by other climate-research ‘soldiers’. And it happens that some of my mail exchange with Keith Briffa and Timothy Osborn can be found in the CRU-files made public recently on the internet.

To the question of legality or ethicalness of reading those files I will write a couple of words later. I may confirm what has been written in other places: research in some areas of climate science has been and is full of machination, conspiracies, and collusion, as any reader can interpret from the CRU-files. They depict a realistic, I would say even harmless, picture of what the real research in the area of the climate of the past millennium has been in the last years. The scientific debate has been in many instances hijacked to advance other agendas.

These words do not mean that I think anthropogenic climate change is a hoax. On the contrary, it is a question which we have to be very well aware of. But I am also aware that in this thick atmosphere -and I am not speaking of greenhouse gases now- editors, reviewers and authors of alternative studies, analysis, interpretations, even based on the same data we have at our disposal, have been bullied and subtly blackmailed. In this atmosphere, Ph D students are often tempted to tweak their data so as to fit the ‘politically correct picture’. Some, or many issues, about climate change are still not well known. Policy makers should be aware of the attempts to hide these uncertainties under a unified picture. I had the ‘pleasure’ to experience all this in my area of research.

I thank explicitly Keith Briffa and Tim Osborn for their work in the formulation of one Chapter of the IPCC report. As it distills from these emails, they withstood the evident pressure of other IPCC authors, not experts in this area of research, to convey a distorted picture of our knowledge of the hockey-stick graph.

Is legal or ethical to read the CRU files? I am not a lawyer. It seems that if the files had been hacked this would constitute an illegal act. If they have been leaked it could be a whistle blower action protected by law. I think it is not unethical to read them. Once published, I feel myself entitled to read how some researchers tried to influence reviewers to scupper the publication of our work on the ‘hockey stick graph’ or to read how some IPCC authors tried to exclude this work from the IPCC Report on very dubious reasons. Also, these mails do not contain any personal information at all. They are an account of many dull daily activities of typical climatologists, together with a realistic account of very troubling professional behavior.

Zorita’s point is well taken.  The bullying atmosphere in Academia on AGW has ruined the credibility of the effort — and not just at the University of East Anglia.  Any PhD student in the field would have known on which side the bread would be buttered, and would be unlikely to commit career suicide by producing contradictory data.  The actions of the IPCC authors created an atmosphere of groupthink, paranoia, and toadyism, not science or truth.  Any results coming from this arena have to be entirely suspect.

The AGW movement has been exposed as a religious belief and a political cash cow, not science.

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“Progressives” have one thing(and perhaps more than one thing) in common with Muslims: they are allowed to lie to the Infidel.
Really Right on November 29, 2009 at 7:17 PM

That really should be Statists – a generic term for Socialists/Progressives/Marxists/Fascists/Stalinist/Leninist/Collectivists/etc,

All of them advocating the:

Concentration of economic controls and planning in the hands of a highly centralized government often extending to government ownership of industry.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary definition of Statism Date of the origin of the word: 1919

Juno77 on November 29, 2009 at 7:50 PM

can you all hear that? listen close….

it’s either the sound of the shiite hitting the fan or anal sphincters slamming shut all around the globe tonight–for tomorrow, this Climategate scandal is really going to be rockin’ and rollin’

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 7:50 PM

The American MSM is going to sit on this story long as it can, hoping it’ll just go the way of the missing/deleted raw data.

Eventually, they’ll have no choice but to report it. Then suffer the ignominy of being scooped again.

Fun, fun, fun on the Autobahn!

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 7:52 PM

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 7:50 PM

What’s that old song?

Hey, did you rock and roll, rock on
Hey, did you boogie, too,
Did ya?

This is too much fun!

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 7:54 PM

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 7:54 PM

I have a sense that the Carpenter’s song of “Rainy Days and Mondays” will be ringin’ in a few heads tomorrow.

Talking to myself and feeling old

Sometimes I’d like to quit

Nothing ever seems to fit

Hangin around, nothing to do but frown

Rainy days and mondays always get me down

What Ive got they used to call the blues

Nothing is really wrong

Feeling like I don’t belong

Walking around some kind of lonely clown

Rainy days and mondays always get me down

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 7:59 PM

Have no fear birthers, truthers, white supremacist, neo-confederates, nativists, Paulians, freepers and creationists…the tobacco and energy industries will prevail. They always do.

fastestslug on November 29, 2009 at 7:59 PM

Yephora on November 29, 2009 at 7:54 PM

The original data is told to be deleted. Therefore, what comes out, absent an entirely new study, is questionable.

More ammo for us!

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 7:59 PM

blimey! a troll!

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:00 PM

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 7:59 PM

Add in ‘Send in the Clowns’.

Between us, we got a concert going!

Next up, Alice Copper’s ‘Poison.’

Maybe we should take our Kiss records out.

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:02 PM

Q
Has anyone told the kids the truth about AGW yet?
No Santa, no tooth-fairy,
and now
No AGW.
Kids will be so devastated

macncheez on November 29, 2009 at 8:03 PM

Liam, Ted C, enough with the 70′s tunes OK? You’re dating yourselves, and by recognition of it, myself as well.

I feel old enough as is, you no sense adding insult to injury!

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:06 PM

Maybe we should take our Kiss records out.

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:02 PM

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:06 PM

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, and here I am… you finish it…

alright–i’ll stop

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:07 PM

The American MSM is going to sit on this story long as it can, hoping it’ll just go the way of the missing/deleted raw data.
Eventually, they’ll have no choice but to report it. Then suffer the ignominy of being scooped again.
Fun, fun, fun on the Autobahn!
Liam on November 29, 2009 at 7:52 PM

Just like they did on the ACORN scandal, kind of looks like a pattern, doesn’t it?

Juno77 on November 29, 2009 at 8:09 PM

Wow, I wonder who is going to visit all of those congressmen who voted for Cap and Trade at the Little Home for Former Congressmen next year after they lose their jobs?

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:10 PM

Have no fear birthers, truthers, white supremacist, neo-confederates, nativists, Paulians, freepers and creationists…the tobacco and energy industries will prevail. They always do.

fastestslug on November 29, 2009 at 7:59 PM

Dude, when you finally awake from your Kool-Aid stupor, the hang-over is going to be so harsh. Glad not to be you, good luck wit dat!

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:10 PM

Scientists acting fraudulently.

Pfft. Old News:

In an attempt to further their careers and justify the claims that evolution is a legitimate theory, many scientists have fraudulently deceived the world by planting or reconstructing fossils which they would claim to be authentic finds.

http://www.nwcreation.net/evolutionfraud.html

davidk on November 29, 2009 at 8:11 PM

blimey! a troll!
ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:00 PM

Yes, and not a very good one at that.

Oh and it forgot “Race fans”.

So sad.

Juno77 on November 29, 2009 at 8:11 PM

Maybe we should take our Kiss records out.

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:02 PM
Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:06 PM
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, and here I am… you finish it…

alright–i’ll stop

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:07 PM

Stuck in the middle right with you!

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:11 PM

I feel old enough as is, you no sense adding insult to injury!

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:06 PM

OK, sorry.

How about the 80s, then? She Bop, maybe?

I’m looking for a new sensation,
I’m picking up good vibrations!

She bop, he bop, a-we bop!
I bop, you bop…

Feel better, Friend?

~falls over laughing~

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:13 PM

Have no fear birthers, truthers, white supremacist, neo-confederates, nativists, Paulians, freepers and creationists…the tobacco and energy industries will prevail. They always do.

fastestslug on November 29, 2009 at 7:59 PM

Dude, when you finally awake from your Kool-Aid stupor, the hang-over is going to be so harsh. Glad not to be you, good luck wit dat!

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:10 PM

I saw this trolls comment and thought something similar. What a hackneyed argument these shallow thinkers contribute to the discussion.

I’ve had it with these weak minded individuals. The prevailing attitude is, that if you oppose any leftist agenda, then you must be for big corporate agenda–whatever those may be. How utterly stupid is that?

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:13 PM

fastestslug on November 29, 2009 at 7:59 PM

Typical dingbat “strategery”: when you have no argument to make just change the subject.

Really Right on November 29, 2009 at 8:13 PM

fastestslug to the foot I might add….

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:14 PM

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:13 PM

I’m sorry to say I remember the video to that song. Remember MTV, it used to have these things called “music videos”—kind of a thing of the past I hear now…

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:15 PM

Just like they did on the ACORN scandal, kind of looks like a pattern, doesn’t it?

Juno77 on November 29, 2009 at 8:09 PM

It’s their way. Can a leopard change its stripes or a tiger its spots?

The MSM is going to bomb on this one, too.

And I’m still buying the popcorn!

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:16 PM

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:15 PM

MTV hasn’t been about music for 25 years. Sad. All those vids were a reason to stay up late after leaving the wife satisfied.

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:17 PM

the tobacco and energy industries will prevail. They always do.

fastestslug on November 29, 2009 at 7:59 PM

Nice to see you are rooting for Al Gore and his m/b illions.
How exactly did he make all his money exactly ?

macncheez on November 29, 2009 at 8:17 PM

No, no, anything but the 80′s! I found my solace bitterly clinging to the 60′s-70′s stuff in the 80′s, with very few exceptions, not much in music worth a crap came outta da 80′s.

I acquiese, as you were, by all means!

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:18 PM

http://www.evofraud.com/

davidk on November 29, 2009 at 8:20 PM

So, what professor is going to get it in the neck this week? UEA, Penn State, Virginia, who—what school? Where is the first blood letting going to occur? Who will lose their tenure? Who will get moved to a “lower level faculty position”? Who will end up writing a book… who’s going to blow the whistle, make a plea deal, say he needs to “spend more time with family” or take an unplanned vacation to the patagonia, or suddenly finds a newfound interest in the teaching of undergraduates…a skill lost on the professoriate class long ago and relegated to the non-English speaking TAs….. who’s it going to be? tick tock hansen, betcha your career runs out before the world ends… betcha betcha…. betcha we’ll be drillin’ in a hole dubbed the “CRU Memorial AGW Hole” up in Alaska by the time the ink dries on your next “peer reviewed paper”….

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:20 PM

MTV hasn’t been about music for 25 years. Sad. All those vids were a reason to stay up late after leaving the wife satisfied.

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:17 PM

Ha haahahahhha—staying up late to gloat over your humility I see…!

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:21 PM

not much in music worth a crap came outta da 80’s.

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:18 PM

Oh, wait! The 60s bit dog and the 70s sucked moose.

The 80s were the best for music, man!

Keep talking like that and I’m going to have Obowma open a special re-ed camp for the musically impaired! *L*

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:21 PM

Ha haahahahhha—staying up late to gloat over your humility I see…!

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:21 PM

What humility? *L*

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM

Oh yeah, from what your wife says, you could use a little humility!

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:23 PM

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:15 PM
MTV hasn’t been about music for 25 years. Sad. All those vids were a reason to stay up late after leaving the wife satisfied.

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:17 PM

If you really want to start harping, remermber when cable was $12 a month for the expando pkg? And no commercials!

The no ads deal was the whole freakin point. It reminds me of Pink Floyd’s lyric “…and 13 channels of sh!t to chosse from..” Now its 400+ channls O’crap and commercials filling 1 outta 3 min’s of programming.

We’ve been reamed!

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:23 PM

Oh yeah, from what your wife says, you could use a little humility!

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:23 PM

I don’t to be humble. One of the three guys she got engaged to after divorcing me asked a question no man should ever ask: “Who’s the best lover you ever had?”

She told him it was me.

I have no reason to be humble, at least there. (my kids told me that story)

Humility?

Not a chance, at least there.

So, back to the concert. Who’s up next?

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:27 PM

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:23 PM

You are so right!

And then there’s Springsteen’s 57 channels and nothing’s on

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:29 PM

So, what professor is going to get it in the neck this week? UEA, Penn State, Virginia, who—what school? Where is the first blood letting going to occur? Who will lose their tenure? Who will get moved to a “lower level faculty position”? Who will end up writing a book… who’s going to blow the whistle, make a plea deal, say he needs to “spend more time with family” or take an unplanned vacation to the patagonia, or suddenly finds a newfound interest in the teaching of undergraduates…a skill lost on the professoriate class long ago and relegated to the non-English speaking TAs….. who’s it going to be? tick tock hansen, betcha your career runs out before the world ends… betcha betcha…. betcha we’ll be drillin’ in a hole dubbed the “CRU Memorial AGW Hole” up in Alaska by the time the ink dries on your next “peer reviewed paper”….

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:20 PM

Penn State already announced the beginning of an investigation of Mann, so money on Penn State. Plus my dad played for the N-Lions, so some redemption would be good to get.

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:30 PM

To everything: Turn, Turn, Turn.
There is a season: Turn, Turn, Turn.
And a time to every purpose under heaven.

And in keeping with the Climatology theme:
Sunlight is the best disinfectant!

Poor Trolls. All they have left is weak defenses…of everything.

kingsjester on November 29, 2009 at 8:31 PM

So, back to the concert. Who’s up next?

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:27 PM

After that ‘splainin’, it’s time for some country. How ’bout “That Ain’t My Truck”

that ain’t my truck in the driveway
idlin’ all that greenhouse gas for me…
kickin’ up all that CO2 round here
that’s my girl, my whole world
but that ain’t my truck…..

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:32 PM

Poor Trolls. All they have left is weak defenses…of everything.

kingsjester on November 29, 2009 at 8:31 PM

Except for calling us all wretched, evil, ignorant, and other names. Right before they change the subject.

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:33 PM

Penn State already announced the beginning of an investigation of Mann, so money on Penn State. Plus my dad played for the N-Lions, so some redemption would be good to get.

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:30 PM

I submit we heat up our state legislators with hard, serious and pointed questions regarding not only state research funding, but also federal funding of state universities. Moreover, openly question the tenure and review boards of these schools as a means to kick open the debate into how our freedom and liberty can be assailed so readily from the guilded castles behind which these sissies operate.

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:34 PM

After that ’splainin’, it’s time for some country. How ’bout “That Ain’t My Truck”

that ain’t my truck in the driveway
idlin’ all that greenhouse gas for me…
kickin’ up all that CO2 round here
that’s my girl, my whole world
but that ain’t my truck…..

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:32 PM

C&W? I was raised on it!

Gimme your playlist. I’m in!

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:34 PM

Later guys, time for beer run.

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:36 PM

It’s their way. Can a leopard change its stripes or a tiger its spots?
The MSM is going to bomb on this one, too.
And I’m still buying the popcorn!
Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:16 PM

Yes and they are losing their credibility bit by bit with each story they ignore.

Juno77 on November 29, 2009 at 8:36 PM

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:34 PM

Since energy is the topic, how about a little Brooks and Dunn… “Neon Moon”

It’s not quite the same if you change it to say “Compact Fluorescent Moon” just doesn’t have the same ring…

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:37 PM

Yes and they are losing their credibility bit by bit with each story they ignore.

Juno77 on November 29, 2009 at 8:36 PM

+100

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:37 PM

Later guys, time for beer run.

Archimedes on November 29, 2009 at 8:36 PM

are you taking DJ Jazzy and the Prince in his mom’s new Porsche?

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:38 PM

I saw someone say Charlie thinks NOAA has the list of climate stations used by CRU.

It’s interesting that CRU released this data to their competitor. You see NOAA provides the enhanced data to GISS.

In turn the point of NOAA and GISS developing their separate temperature graphs is as a check for the Hadley CRU Temp study. Also for each other.

Roger Pielke made this observation during the early phases of the IPCC, and was given the bums rush by the statists that held the majority on the panel. The NOAA,GISS,and HADCrut2 all share 90%-95% of the same data.

They aren’t checking anything. They’re just “Me Too” ing

papertiger on November 29, 2009 at 8:38 PM

But, but, science is, is, uh, well, SCIENCE!

“Scientific fraud and the power structure of science ”
~Brian Martin

“Brian Martin: publications on plagiarism and scientific fraud”

“Books on Scientific Fraud ”
~WSJ

davidk on November 29, 2009 at 8:37 PM

She blinded me with Science!

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:39 PM

Ohhh dawwg, you win. That totally fits.

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:39 PM

all right, I’m tapping out. I have to go create some science of my own. See ya’ll–cover up with an extra blanket tonight–now that global warming is out the window, you might freeze yo’ a$$ off.

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:41 PM

Since energy is the topic, how about a little Brooks and Dunn… “Neon Moon”

It’s not quite the same if you change it to say “Compact Fluorescent Moon” just doesn’t have the same ring…

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:37 PM

I don’t know them. I’m more into Patsy Cline, Jim Reeves, Cash, Winette, and all the others of that time. Gimme Roger Miller and I’m in hog heaven!

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:42 PM

I’m hanged if I recall the C&W singer, but her sang these lines:

They ran through the briars
They ran through the brambles,
They ran where a rabbit couldn’t go.

That’s to where these AGW liars have come. This is an important event, one that won’t be able to be long ignored.

Deleting data? No scientist in his right mind would allow his data to be lost.

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:50 PM

Warrick Hughes reports CRU have just “deleted” – removed 8 months of their CRUT3 monthly anomalies for 2009.

Sure enough downloading the CRUTEM3 Global mean I see only Jan and Feb for 2009;
2009 0.561 0.713 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.637
2009 27 26 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
HadCRUT3 is the same, 8 months edited out – as is HadSST2 – so the issue is through land and sea data.
However, nobody has told the Hadley Centre….. Hadley still has the data up.

Hughes is an Aussie with his head screwed on straight. Old school climate guy.

Sounds like schenanigans at the CRU.

papertiger on November 29, 2009 at 8:56 PM

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!

I quoted Charles from LGF in a comment he made there about Ed. If you notice at the bottom there is an FYI to Ed.

I, in NO WAY, endorse Charles’ remarks I, simply wanted Ed to know what he is saying for his own information!

I apologize i went to a different thread and didn’t see all this going on or I would have said something earlier.

FloridaBill on November 29, 2009 at 8:57 PM

Have no fear birthers, truthers, white supremacist, neo-confederates, nativists, Paulians, freepers and creationists…the tobacco and energy industries will prevail. They always do.

fastestslug on November 29, 2009 at 7:59 PM

Thanks for posting that! I’ll sleep better tonight.

Red State State of Mind on November 29, 2009 at 8:59 PM

/Liam on November 29, 2009 at 8:50 PM

Johnny Horton

papertiger on November 29, 2009 at 9:00 PM

I, in NO WAY, endorse Charles’ remarks I, simply wanted Ed to know what he is saying for his own information!

FloridaBill on November 29, 2009 at 8:57 PM

We know. Don’t worry.

We’re not liberal statists. We think first, then act.

Riposte on November 29, 2009 at 9:01 PM

Johnny Horton

papertiger on November 29, 2009 at 9:00 PM

That’s him! Thanks!

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 9:02 PM

Relax Bill

I’m not pointing any accusatorial fingers.

You can keep your day job! Little joke.

papertiger on November 29, 2009 at 9:03 PM

FloridaBill on November 29, 2009 at 8:57 PM

That was my bad, FloridaBill. I misread your comments as being supportive of Charles‘ post. I apologize.

Weight of Glory on November 29, 2009 at 9:07 PM

According to Michael Ramirez, the temperature is rising.

davidk on November 29, 2009 at 9:09 PM

Folks, few of you seem to understand what is going on here.

This isn’t a scientist who got caught fudging the numbers. There is a whole lot of legislation and propaganda based on the studies from East Anglia CRU. For these criminals and Al Gore to be discredited should mean going back to square one about what is “known” about global warming or climate change (a term coined when the myth started coming undone).

The sad truth is that none of this ever mattered. Global Warming/Climate Change was really never anything more than an excuse for the left to take away freedoms and liberty.

highhopes on November 29, 2009 at 9:21 PM

The American MSM is going to sit on this story long as it can, hoping it’ll just go the way of the missing/deleted raw data.

Eventually, they’ll have no choice but to report it. Then suffer the ignominy of being scooped again.

Fun, fun, fun on the Autobahn!

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 7:52 PM

Well the interesting thing will be when the EPA starts to regulate CO2 (coming very soon to a utility near you) this little scandal very might allow this entire thing to stay tied up in the courts for years. It will get pretty messy, but I’ll bet the EPA was going to use these very jerks and their studies and simulations as a basis for the new regulations. Prior to this disclosure the utilities were just going to play the game. But with the Cap & Trade bill unable to pass in the Senate the Democrats and Obama were going to use the EPA to do the dirty work they can’t get accomplished in Congress.
They have tried to buy off the major Utilities with the smart grid money but many utilities see that as a no win situation for them. The CO-OPS will have to fight these new regulations and this just might give them a great opening. At least we can hope for a change.

whbates on November 29, 2009 at 9:24 PM

Folks, few of you seem to understand what is going on here.

highhopes on November 29, 2009 at 9:21 PM

Only libs fit in that, Patriot.

The rest of us, like you, are well aware. We’re at your side.

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 9:25 PM

Riposte on November 29, 2009 at 9:01 PM
Weight of Glory on November 29, 2009 at 9:07 PM
papertiger on November 29, 2009 at 9:03 PM

Thanks!

It took me a while to find my post, but when I did I realized that, for some reason (possibly having to do with “Adult Beverage” count), Charles’ text was not “Quoted” the way I had intended.

I hereby revert to my standard four letter fallback positional statement – OOPS!

Thanks, again, for the understanding!

FloridaBill on November 29, 2009 at 9:25 PM

papertiger on November 29, 2009 at 9:00 PM

Thanks again! I got a number of Horton’s songs again, recalling my life a little bit more. That’s because of you. Thank you so much!

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 9:26 PM

Global warming might kill me, this I know,
Though my thermostat is turned down, oh so low.
Though my lights are all set on dim,
Still Lord Al bids me to scrimp more for Him.

Yes, Global warming might kill me!
Yes, Global warming might kill me!
Yes, Global warming might kill me!
The Goracle tells me so.

Though my Honda is oh so slow,
With my mind in his hands I’ll go.
On through life, to others let come what may,
He’ll be fling in a private jet going His Lordly way.

Yes, Global warming might kill me!
Yes, Global warming might kill me!
Yes, Global warming might kill me!
The Goracle tells me so.

Though I am no longer young,
I have learned so much which He’s begun.
Let me live in a cave like my ancestors did for The Goracle with a smile,
Go with Him the extra carbon credit pile.

Yes, Global warming might kill me!
Yes, Global warming might kill me!
Yes, Global warming might kill me!
The Goracle tells me so.

When the nights are cold and long,
In my mind He puts a bong.
Telling me in words so clear,
“Let Me be clear, I am The Goracle that you must hear.”

Yes, Global warming might kill me!
Yes, Global warming might kill me!
Yes, Global warming might kill me!
The Goracle tells me so.

When His work in America is done,
And His bank accounts weigh a ton.
He will take my roof above,
Then I’ll understand all about His kind of love.

Yes, Global warming might kill me!
Yes, Global warming might kill me!
Yes, Global warming might kill me!
The Goracle tells me so.

I praise The Goracle, does he know?
Have I ever told Him so?
The Goracle loves to hear me say,
That I will buy His carbon credits every day.

Yes, Global warming might kill me!
Yes, Global warming might kill me!
Yes, Global warming might kill me!
The Goracle tells me so.

MB4 on November 29, 2009 at 9:33 PM

Michael Ramirez? cartoon guy

That threw me for a minute.

I was thinkin “damn, I thought I knew all of the warmers”

papertiger on November 29, 2009 at 9:35 PM

The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church.
- Ferdinand Magellan

If Ferdinand Magellan was alive today he would probably say “The Church of Global Warming says the earth is heating up, but I know that it is not, for I have seen the snow and ice and have felt their cold, and I have more faith in snow and ice than in the Church of Global Warming and it’s High Priests.”

MB4 on November 29, 2009 at 9:47 PM

We’ll find that University that’s making such a fuss;
We’ve got to sink the HADCrut cause the world depends on us!
So hit those decks a runnin boys, lets turn the debate around.
When we find Prof Jones we’ve got to cut him down.

Badabading dang ding, badabading dang ding,

Hows that, Liam?

papertiger on November 29, 2009 at 9:48 PM

Hows that, Liam?

papertiger on November 29, 2009 at 9:48 PM

Works for me!

Liam on November 29, 2009 at 9:52 PM

SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

Does this qualify them for a Darwin award? :)

Shy Guy on November 29, 2009 at 11:29 AM

No, but two PhD students eager to do the bidding of their advisers would be candidates if they were mauled by a polar bear while delivering large blocks of ice up to them. That’d be Darwin quality right there… The criteria is that you have to creatively remove yourself from the gene pool. AGW scientists getting eaten by polar bears would certainly make the cut, pun intended.

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 10:05 PM

So they can’t find the raw AGW data. Has anyone asked Hillary’s secretary to see if they were misfiled with the Rose Law Firm billing records?

Mark30339 on November 29, 2009 at 10:18 PM

Right at this moment, there is a leftist out there drawing up the next scam.

And the media await their new marching orders.

justltl on November 29, 2009 at 10:19 PM

So they can’t find the raw AGW data. Has anyone asked Hillary’s secretary to see if they were misfiled with the Rose Law Firm billing records?

Mark30339 on November 29, 2009 at 10:18 PM

Certainly that would be the first place to look. If the data isn’t there they should try to reconstruct those missing 18 minutes that Rose Mary Woods accidentally erased.

MB4 on November 29, 2009 at 10:40 PM

I guess I should know or something but what’s the odd things on their heads in that picture?

jeanie on November 29, 2009 at 11:04 PM

In this atmosphere, Ph D students are often tempted to tweak their data so as to fit the ‘politically correct picture’.

This is the most corrosive part of the whole affair — that some Masters and PhD candidates will be required to perform tasks within the conspiracy in order to receive their degrees. And, after they have their degrees, they will either have to renounce their own research or continue within the conspiracy.

I lost my chance at a PhD for precisely this reason. As a brash young candidate, I made the mistake of questioning the theoretical framework of results that underpinned my dissertation adviser’s reputation, and my methods proved his work was incorrect. I settled for a Masters (which he could not deny me) and went to work.

unclesmrgol on November 29, 2009 at 11:26 PM

East Anglia CRU threw out their raw data

Well of course they did.

The truth frightens liberals.

Yakko77 on November 30, 2009 at 12:05 AM

How can you all be so merciless!!!!!!!!

You stole Gore’s Presidency in 2000. Global warming is all that he’s got.

And still, you want to steal it from him.

Have mercy, conservatives!

Gore is my favorite toad. Toad is my favorite X-men character.

WAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

TheAlamos on November 30, 2009 at 12:38 AM

Gore and his eco-pals are probably brainstorming for a new Panic du Jour to replace the Climate Terror Hoopla.

Asteroid Collision is their best idea, so far.

Ramping up the usual hysteria:

We must mobilize the world and tax everyone and start a new green rocket industry to prepare to “deflect” an approaching asteroid!

Not as guilt-riddled as AGW, but it’ll tide the Climatistas over… and misdirect any media inquiries… during the unfolding Global Warming Fatal Fudge Scandal.

profitsbeard on November 30, 2009 at 12:43 AM

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, and here I am… you finish it…

alright–i’ll stop

ted c on November 29, 2009 at 8:07 PM

Oh it’s the 70′s is it? How about this:

Ricky don’t lose those numbers
You don’t want to con nobody else
Put them all in a box
On the shelf

Ricky don’t lose those numbers
They’re the only ones you own
We might have to sift through them with a
Fine toothcomb.

Sharke on November 30, 2009 at 1:46 AM

Yephora on November 29, 2009 at 7:54 PM wrote:

TURNABOUT — DATA TO BE RELEASED
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6678469/Climategate-University-of-East-Anglia-U-turn-in-climate-change-row.html

What is interesting is, if you read the article, the CRU is saying they’ll release the data only after they’ve settled assorted NDA agreements first. In other words, it sounds like they’re setting up for a “Well, unknown parties won;t let us release the data, so there,” defense. Basically, believe it when you see the data, not before.

The fun thing about such an excuse, is you can stall for weeks or months before you have to roll out the “we can’t give it to you,” line.

Voyager on November 30, 2009 at 3:45 AM

The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building.

Soooooo they are claming “the dog ate my home work”?

The greatest challenge the world has ever known doesn’t warrant a couple of $60 hard drives to store that data?

DSchoen on November 30, 2009 at 5:42 AM

Don’t we hear all all of these blogs the constant bleating of “scientists” or at least people who believe in science over faith…the incessant retort, “science is hampered by religion”, “religion is the bane of science”, or “throughout history science would be further progressed if it hadn’t been for the loony Christians”.
And hear we have modern proof, that it isn’t “Christian’s”, but unethical scientists who are the ones that are now stopping true scientific knowledge from being disseminated.
It happened with AIDS, with DDT, with the Exxon spill, homosexual behavior, with second hand smoke, with global warming…science is a political exercise to express your political beliefs.
“Scientists” are the ones who now hind behind the word “expert”…the “Expert”, has just replaced the 15th century “God”…

right2bright on November 30, 2009 at 7:44 AM

I’ve seen so many claims and counterclaims about the raw temperature data that I’m not sure what to believe.

I’ve seen several apparently contradictory statements coming out of the CRU, starting with “We don’t have to give it to you, because other people have the same thing”, to through “All these people demanding the original station data are just incompetent cranks trying to spam us with FOIA requests and keep us from doing any real work.” moving to “We no longer have the original data, only the processed data”, along with “alright, we’ll make it available”.

From the skeptical camp, “There’s a copy in the hacked/leaked files”. Although that can’t be raw data if its processable at this point, given that one of CRU’s programmers labored over one version of data and code for some three years and finally gave up on getting them to behave properly. It’s not clear whether versions available from GISS and other sources have undergone any preprocessing and cleaning up or not, or if they have, what kind.

It’s hard to sort out the truth from the noise, echoes, and delayed discoveries that appear on the net. The “don’t have the original anymore” seems to have been reluctantly and mutedly conceded back in August, but didn’t get much attention then. With the data dump (hacked or leaked, it’s still not clear which) a week ago, everything is getting more attention, and the dust is up in the air obcuring everything.

It’s something of an aphorism in scientific computing that “If you torture data enough, it will confess to anything”. Two people can start with the exact same raw data, and by applying different assumptions and adjustments, come up with completely different conclusions, as is demonstrated in the flap over the New Zealand data.

What was revealed in the code contained in the CRU dump is principally, (except perhaps to a Fortran expert after a few weeks of digging) that we don’t know exactly what the raw data was, exactly what was done to it, why, or what became of it. Excuse my language, but the data handling techniques, statistics, documentation, and programming were piss-poor from the very start, and I’m not at all convinced that they have markedly improved in the latest version.

We need much better science than this, if we’re going to base major disruptive economic measures on it.

Confutus on November 30, 2009 at 7:55 AM

Jim Hoft‘s post @ Gateway Pundit

“a serious and balanced treatment of the question of ‘burden of proof’ in situations where science germane to public policy is in dispute”–Holdren

Transparent …situational science germane to disputable public policy…

Expose what opportunistic organized/governing criminal minds mandate to be “science germane to public policy”.

Impeach Corruption

maverick muse on November 30, 2009 at 8:09 AM

Fruit of the Poisoned Tree …

How much of the theory of man made Global Warming is based on research and / or data that’s come frm this CRU?

How many of the emails were between the CRU and other climate change laboratories or agencies and is there an indication that some of the other research institutions were doing the same thing?

I think it is now time to ask for EVERYONE’s raw data – and if they have an excuse for not giving it up – or take excessively long in producing it – I think it’s fair to say they have NO raw data.

At a very minimum – this ought to open the whole theory up to a complete and comprehensive re-examination.

It’s not enough to say “Don’t worry about the other labs – they aren’t doing this kind of thing” … because the only lab we’ve gotten a look into had fatal issues with the science. Let me express this another way – 100% of the labs we’ve analyzed in this manner had fatal issues with the science analysis.

CREDIBILITY PROBLEM.

If other labs want to continue to be listened to – they need to open their doors. Show us their emails, their raw data.

In many cases we, as taxpayers, are paying for those emails and data anyway. It’s only fair we be allowed to see them.

HondaV65 on November 30, 2009 at 8:10 AM

Gore didn’t simply not attend college. Gore didn’t just “drop out” of college. Gore FLUNKED OUT.

Gore, the conman fraud, incorporated his own scam, and had no problem enlisting researchers to fabricate his whole cloth.

What Gore PROVED is how easy it is to fabricate a global hoax of monstrous proportion to deprive everyone of humanity’s unalienable rights. Gore solicited real scientists to fabricate “documentation” and destroy the age of empirical science, embracing dogmatic fraud that repudiates facts and accuracy to the point of DESTROYING FUNDAMENTAL RECORDS.

“science germane to public policy”–Holdren

Think twice.

So far as climatology is concerned, Gore hasn’t even been around for a blink of the eye. All of the records prior to Gore’s hoax remain intact so long as Gore’s “invention” of the internet does not become the ONLY source of document research.

Paper trails lead to real libraries.

btw Same point applies to electronic voting: insist that your county/state provide/count paper ballots.

maverick muse on November 30, 2009 at 8:28 AM

Impeach Corruption

maverick muse on November 30, 2009 at 8:09 AM

We end up with 3 senators, and a dozen representatives…none of who we have ever heard of…and no bills passed for a year.
Sounds good to me…

right2bright on November 30, 2009 at 8:37 AM

I’ve been complaining for decades about the other topic many scientists alter or conceal evidence about: Darwinism. I’m eager for Fox, talk radio, & Drudge to report just as zealously about that. One day they will, because the mounting evidence will eventually burst the levees of deceit.

jgapinoy on November 30, 2009 at 9:09 AM

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