Three Navy SEALs court-martialed after giving most-wanted Iraqi terrorist a fat lip
posted at 5:32 pm on November 24, 2009 by Allahpundit
Looks awful, but I’m suspicious that it’s as bad as it seems given Fox’s misleading headline: “Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist.” That makes it sound like the act of capturing him is the offense here, which would be insane even by the Army’s Nidal-Hasan standards of political correctness.
But that’s not what happened. They’re being charged for allegedly giving him a beating and covering it up.
Navy SEALs have secretly captured one of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq — the alleged mastermind of the murder and mutilation of four Blackwater USA security guards in Fallujah in 2004. And three of the SEALs who captured him are now facing criminal charges, sources told FoxNews.com…
Ahmed Hashim Abed, whom the military code-named “Objective Amber,” told investigators he was punched by his captors — and he had the bloody lip to prove it…
[A SEAL witness] told investigators he had showered after the mission, gone to the kitchen and then decided to look in on the detainee.
“I gave the detainee a glance over and then left,” the SEAL wrote. “I did not notice anything wrong with the detainee and he appeared in good health.”…
United States Central Command declined to discuss the detainee, but a legal source told FoxNews.com that the detainee was turned over to Iraqi authorities, to whom he made the abuse complaints. He was then returned to American custody. The SEAL leader reported the charge up the chain of command, and an investigation ensued.
I like Goldfarb’s take: “A fat lip? That’s enough to get you rough military justice from the Obama administration, but blow up the World Trade Center and you get all the due process rights of the civilian criminal justice system.” Even so, the fact that this turd got the Iraqi authorities involved may have left Central Command with little choice here. The last thing the military needs right now is another detainee-abuse headache, especially with some Iraqi pols already leaning on them about withdrawal. Giving the SEALs a zero-tolerance wrist slap reminds other troops not to do anything more seriously stupid that might be exploited politically. And it will be a wrist slap, I’m sure: The last thing The One needs after shipping KSM off to NYC for his close-up is the image of SEALs being hauled off to prison for busting some jihadi in the face. In fact, according to Fox, the SEALs requested a court-martial rather than nonjudicial punishment, presumably because they know full well how awful this looks for the military. Prediction: Wrist slap.
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Bring these SEALS to New York immediately for a civilian trial.
Mason on November 24, 2009 at 6:28 PM
Mr Senior, it IS. And woe is US.
leftnomore on November 24, 2009 at 6:29 PM
Who – Obama? …/sarc
Josiah on November 24, 2009 at 6:29 PM
I’d like to buy the boys a round at this little watering hole…
… making sure Ahmed Hashim Abed was brought along as ‘guest of honor’.
Seven Percent Solution on November 24, 2009 at 6:30 PM
The last thing O’Bonehead and his pansy advisors need right now is another reminder to Americans that he –
- doesn’t know the difference between an M-16 and a squirt gun,
- thinks basic training involves a lecture on where to get food stamps and file civil rights lawsuits,
- instinctively criticizes cops because of his 1960s ghetto mentality,
- left our troops twisting in the wind in Afghanistan for 9 bloody months without the reinforcements everyone knows they need, and
- bows and curtseys to little emperors, tin-pot dictators, mullahs, and assorted other third-world clowns.
He doesn’t deserve to be defended and represented by the Girl Scouts, much less the Navy Seals. I hope they figure out very, very quickly that these guys deserve nothing but a pat on the back and a lecture on timing, but if they eff with them in any way, shape or form, Obama and his little band of socialist buttsniffers will pay a heavy political price, indeed.
Jaibones on November 24, 2009 at 6:30 PM
Mr. Terrorist is lucky those SEALS didn’t gut him and leave him to rot in a ditch somewhere…
Wyznowski on November 24, 2009 at 6:31 PM
I MUST HAVE HIT A WRONG KEY, WAS CORRECTING WORST, WHEN ALL OF A SUDDEN IT POSTED. I was going to say the worst admin. I have ever seen in my long life, Carter was bad but stupid bad, this one in dangerous bad.
concernedsenior on November 24, 2009 at 6:31 PM
The Terroroist is lucky I did not catch b/c he would have been sucking Campbells Soup through a straw!
BigMike252 on November 24, 2009 at 6:33 PM
Prediction: Dishonorable discharge. Possible time in the slammer.
Come ‘on Allah, stop sipping the Obama Kool-Aid. The man hates the military. Expect them t be fully prosecuted to the fullest extent possible and for the court to receive extreme political pressure form the White House. How dare these Seals do their job? How dare they demand real justice, not PC mandated shadowy punishment.
chicagojedi on November 24, 2009 at 6:33 PM
Just a fat lip? Bloody hell, they should have given him a broken nose and a mouthful of bloody chiclets.
Then I’d give them the Medal of Honor.
atheling on November 24, 2009 at 6:33 PM
I wish. But this isn’t it. Asymmetric justice would have been … more severe.
Jaibones on November 24, 2009 at 6:35 PM
Considering the fact that these were SEALS, this assclown should feel fortunate that the worse he got out of it was just a fat lip.
Frankly, they should have given the guy a hot lead enema and left it at that/
pilamaye on November 24, 2009 at 6:35 PM
I will personally pay for the dental work and plastic surgery for this vermin, and cover the court costs and fees for prosecuting, and defending, these fine young men, if afterwards…
You will give me five minutes in a room with the “victim”, no cameras.
TXUS on November 24, 2009 at 6:36 PM
This treatment of Special Ops is all that is needed to ensure they don’t find wanted terrorists.
Way to go O(Ihatethemilitary)bama.
Helloyawl on November 24, 2009 at 6:39 PM
The above fact is a pretty damned important thing to leave out of the discussion. Why wasn’t this mentioned at the top of the thread? Reduction in rate and loss of pay would be pretty much a wrist slap if they were indeed derelict in their duty and making false statements.
The SEALs would not be refusing NJP for a courts martial unless they (and their legal counsel) were certain of their ground. I suspect any punishment is based on the “making false statements” and “impeding investigations” portion of the charge rather than the terrorist angle. Still the Fox headline was misleading enough but these people opted for a courts martial, not the Navy.
highhopes on November 24, 2009 at 6:44 PM
How the Hell do we go from a fat lip and non-judicial punishment to a “detainee-abuse” headache? Whatever happened this is not a repeat of Abu Grahib not matter what font you make the headlines.
highhopes on November 24, 2009 at 6:47 PM
Want to know what SEALS are like? I carried three of them on my “Tango” (River Assault) boat, in Vietnam. They were leading a squad of Vietnamese commandos. We didn’t know it at the time, but we beached to insert them exactly where VC and NVA were waiting to ambush us. After the SEALS and commandos exited our bow ramp, all hell broke lose. Fifteen minutes later, one of the SEALS came back to the boat stomping his feet in anger. He had three enemy weapons in his left hand, along with packs. His right hand was at his throat, where he had taken shrapnel through his neck. He was pissed off, like he had a bad hair day.
Never piss off a SEAL.
Star20 on November 24, 2009 at 6:48 PM
How many of our troops have digital cameras? If this guy is a high profile target and they know they are handing him over to the Iraqis wouldn’t it have been SOP to take a picture of him at his capture, and then right before they released him to the Iraqis, and then a picture upon his return?
I bet they have pics and a log of where they were, were he was and witnesses saying the guy was untouched before his little stay with the Iraqis.
journeyintothewhirlwind on November 24, 2009 at 6:49 PM
BTW, they should have just killed him instead of giving him a fat lip.
Star20 on November 24, 2009 at 6:50 PM
I want to buy those SEALS a case of beer!
MCGIRV on November 24, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Had Obama been prez during WW2, we’d be blogging in German.
angryed on November 24, 2009 at 6:54 PM
You know, of all the web sites that have a comments section, ain’t none as good as this one, I mean a real variety of comedy alongside intense debate at an extremely intelligent level…kudos to all.
royzer on November 24, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Allah you’re way off base. A wrist slap would have been an Article 15 (non-judicial punishment). The Seals refused this and THEY DEMANDED a court martial.
Seems there’s more to this story than is being told. If your ass is hanging out, the last thing you’d want is a court martial.
GarandFan on November 24, 2009 at 6:55 PM
The Horror. The Horror. A punch in the nose for someone who should be summarily executed.
We are losing this war. We can’t identify the enemy because of political correctness. America’s best and brightess are being sacrificed to Jihadi scum, lest they hurt their feelings or give them a blooy lip. A bloody lip!!! Isn’t this a fucking war?! This wussification of America must stop or there will be more 9/11s. Mark my words, Ft. Hood was just the beginning. A test, a trial. And Ozero failed. Then the KSM show trial. Now the continuing insanity of the ROEs. The enemy is laughing at us and planning more Ft. Hoods.
Pull your head out Allahpundit. Like the man said in “Breaker Morant,” “this is war, not a debutante’s ball.”
For further info see, “Warlord” by Ilario Pantano on why we are losing and why Americans are still dying by Jihad over eight years after 9/11.
Allahpundit: Pull your head out and grow a pair.
Kalapana on November 24, 2009 at 6:57 PM
Throw ‘em a parade!!
D2Boston on November 24, 2009 at 6:58 PM
The non-Jewish among us anyway.
highhopes on November 24, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Had Obama been prez during WWII, he’d be apologizing to the Germans for WWI.
Star20 on November 24, 2009 at 6:59 PM
For some reason, I’m thinking of the scene in “Braveheart,” when the crazy Irish guy says; “God says you’re f*****d!”
Star20 on November 24, 2009 at 7:01 PM
They should have never given him a fat lip!!!!!
They should have given him the same thing he did to our troops…..When they hung him from the bridge, they should have hung him by the balls!!!
Certainly our troops deserve better treatment.
1luckydogg on November 24, 2009 at 7:06 PM
Are you out of your mind? Can you imagine what would happen if men like these were allowed their day in court, to air their grievences in an open forum — what that would do for the morale of the people who share their views?
There is no way in Hell Obama could ever let that happen.
logis on November 24, 2009 at 7:07 PM
[sarc]Hey, guys, thanks for risking your necks to preserve our way of life under circumstances that may never be acknowledged publicly. You’re fired.
Wow, what a country.[/sarc]
manwithblackhat on November 24, 2009 at 7:09 PM
They are SEALS. OMG. What are people thinking, that this is a pillow fight? Our guys get their heads chopped clean off or hung off of a bridge and we can’t rough up the enemy? Un-fu**ing real
johnnyU on November 24, 2009 at 7:10 PM
A fat lip, that’s it?
Did the terrorist bump himself into the cell door?
tarpon on November 24, 2009 at 7:12 PM
I read elsewhere that it was the SEALS who called an admirals mast and requested a trial by court marshal. They refused non-judicial discipline.
Pretty salient point, don’tcha think?
swede7 on November 24, 2009 at 7:17 PM
Next time, just cut his head off and be done with it and he won’t be able to complain. Sauce for the goose, and all that…
I’m surprised the American military is still bothering to capture these fanatics alive. This kind of idiocy continues, not many will make it back to any holding pens anywhere.
bradley11 on November 24, 2009 at 7:18 PM
This, exactly, is why I think these Seals are ready to go CM instead of the easier route over this busted lip nonsense.
I hope, I pray, they expose all the PC whores in the command who, sad to say, are just as much an enemy today as the VC and NVA you saw up close years ago.
TXUS on November 24, 2009 at 7:18 PM
Me things they gave him a fat lip and then pretended he was Angelina Jolie.
Holger on November 24, 2009 at 7:20 PM
They should have just shot the bastard.
BacaDog on November 24, 2009 at 7:22 PM
Except this didn’t start with Obama.
Sadly this mindset of “fighting nice” has been in place for years, if not the entire war.
jjraines on November 24, 2009 at 7:23 PM
I worked closely w/ the Seals while in Iraq last year…words do not express the respect I have for them-I am an Air Force dude-could never do what they do….
Static21 on November 24, 2009 at 7:29 PM
The clumsy guy probably tripped going down of stairs. If they don’t stop putting our guys on trial, soon we won’t have soldiers willing to put their life on the line to defend us. Some common sense would be great in these matters. This is a freaking terrorist we are dealing with here.
la.rt.wngr on November 24, 2009 at 7:33 PM
We are supposed to be above that as world leaders. However,since we are human he should be glad to be alive. I doubt I would have had their restraint in just roughing up the bitch.
faol on November 24, 2009 at 7:36 PM
That sounds right: You only demand a court-martial if you know you’re clean and confident you can prove it
Janos Hunyadi on November 24, 2009 at 7:36 PM
A fat lip? Give me a freakin’ break! As for Abu Ghraib, hell I endured more humiliation and abuse then that during my ShellBack initiation onboard my ship!
As a witness for numerous Courts-Martial (Summary, Special, and General) (both for and against the individual), I can attest to the judicial fairness of them. If a JAG attempts to ‘grand stand’, generally speaking the Judge will call them to task.
Personally, I smell a set up.
Gothguy on November 24, 2009 at 7:37 PM
Wiping my screen after this one.
mrt721 on November 24, 2009 at 7:40 PM
A full court martial? Admiral Mullen is killing the military. We are back to calling them ships of peace and missions instead of battles.
I don’t care if they did cover it up they should have received a slap on the wrist and sent on their merry ways.
Jdripper on November 24, 2009 at 7:46 PM
Ummm…I don’t have a copy of the UCMJ in front of me at the moment, but “wrist slap” isn’t a punishment for a conviction at court martial – for ANY offense.
I read they were facing assault, making a false official statement, and willfully endangering a detainee charges. This isn’t a civilian court. Their chance at a wrist slap came with non-judicial punishment, which they turned down.
IF these guys are convicted on ANY of these charges (assuming they’re true) – they are more than likely facing some type of confinement time.
Here’s my take: The military has enough to convict on any of the charges, which is why the SEALSy were offered NJP. When anyone in trouble in the military is to be punished for an offense (and NJP) is offered as punishment, a legal review has already taken place – so something these guys did can get them in hot water. The military offered NJP probably as an attempt to stifle any further look/publication of this incident. If enough evidence was found to offer these types of guys NJP, there is probably enough to get a conviction in military court
The SEALS, being offered NJP, turned it down as a matter of honor and are daring the military to convict them in court. Knowing the mentality of SF guys, I’m pretty sure this is their mindset. They know how this will look when tried in the court of public opinion.
Things being the way they are with this administration, I suppose it could go either way, but these guys are treading a thin line right now.
Generally speaking, conviction in military court usually carries with it some type of fine/with-holding of pay/allowances for a specified time period, reduction in grade, and some type of confinement – could be the ‘Brig’ (since these guys are Navy), all the way up to hard time.
catmman on November 24, 2009 at 7:53 PM
“but these guys are treading a thin line right now.”
I don’t think SEALS think in those terms. They are more the kind that say; “Bring it on!”
Star20 on November 24, 2009 at 7:58 PM
catmman on November 24, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Speaking from someone who has been in the military 18 years, there is a wide range of punishment at the JAG’s disposal. But, what I have seen over the years, for a fat lip???? Slap on the wrist!-especially for who they are..Seals just don’t fall off of trees…I would be floored if more punishment came out of it, no matter who the President is…
Static21 on November 24, 2009 at 8:01 PM
Wrist slap?? I don’t know . I have been following case of Lt.Col J. Chessani anad he certainly didn’t get a wrist slap from our military-Of course he had Murtha after him- See http://www.thomasmore.org/qry/page.taf?id=119&_function=detail&sbtblct_uid1=701&month=08&year=2009
Bullhead on November 24, 2009 at 8:01 PM
Uncle Jimbo at AoSHQ isn’t all that fond of Allahpundit’s analysis.
billy on November 24, 2009 at 8:07 PM
Bullhead on November 24, 2009 at 8:01 PM
Totally different situation. Non-combatants were killed. Totally against Law of Armed Conflict(LOAC)and local Rules of Engagement(ROE’s).
Static21 on November 24, 2009 at 8:07 PM
If all he had was a fat lip he probably fell down in the shower.
Doesn’t sound like Seal retribution to me.
….. now, if they had found his lips stapled to his forehead …..
fogw on November 24, 2009 at 8:09 PM
The scum are lucky our SEALs showed mercy. Atheist posts aside, this might be Allah’s worst post evah…
flyfisher on November 24, 2009 at 8:12 PM
FIFY
Holger on November 24, 2009 at 8:12 PM
Thx to GarandFan for pointing out the fact that this will NOT be a “wrist slap”!
The brave and honorable SEALs demanded and got a Court Martial. Had they accepted the totally HORSESHIT Non-Judicial Punishment then the Obama Regime would have swept it AND them under the carpet.
I have always encouraged young people to join the military, feeling that it is good for them and their country. I am now talking young people OUT of going in.
I hope every SEAL officer resigns!
Justrand on November 24, 2009 at 8:20 PM
Allah…
There is no need for me to read beyond your 1st sentence…F’ YOU. Stand in someday, shi% your pants as you fumble for some way to save yourself….pray to the GOD you don’t have… as you hope your loved ones will be ok w/o you…again in case you didn’t hear me the first time…F’YOU!
dmann on November 24, 2009 at 8:22 PM
The last thing the military needs is losing Navy Seals because they get reprimanded for gving an ouchie to a freakin terrorist. These guys are hard to come by, trained like no other special ops out there and can always be counted on to get the job done – no matter how difficult, no matter the terrain.
They have a value you can’t put a price on.
fogw on November 24, 2009 at 8:23 PM
Wasn’t it Admiral Stockdale who bruised his own face so the Commies couldn’t put him on TV?
Chris_Balsz on November 24, 2009 at 8:24 PM
Lt. Col. Allen West got a lot more than a wrist slap.
Dumbass.
Kalapana on November 24, 2009 at 8:24 PM
?
WTF?
How about three Navy SEALs given the highest honor American can bestow and this turd Iraqi terrorist 220 volts for an hour and a half until his charcoaled body turns to dust…
IntheNet on November 24, 2009 at 8:25 PM
That value only applies if you also value American lives and security. Which leaves Ozero out.
Allahpundit: Please, take out a loan and buy yourselve a clue.
Kalapana on November 24, 2009 at 8:26 PM
Justrand on November 24, 2009 at 8:20 PM
W/ all due respect, you don’t know what you are talking about. A Courts Marshal is just a legal proceeding…like going to trial. Normal process for one who turns down an Article 15. They could very well be found NOT guilty. The onus is on the Prosecution…you know, innocent until proven guilty. And, if found guilty, the Judge still could just give them a “slap on the wrist” remember, the dude got a fat lip…the horror of it, right?
Static21 on November 24, 2009 at 8:28 PM
Admiral Stockdale did more than that. He cut his scalp and then the NV covered it up so he slammed the chair into his face repeatedly until they couldn’t use him. When he found out US Prisoners were dying in Prison he slit his wrists and told the NV he’d rather die than submit. He was a balsy Mofo. I’ll drink to him.
Holger on November 24, 2009 at 8:28 PM
They requested a courts martial (not court martial) in order to plead not guilty. NJP is basically a Nolo Contendre plea, where you get some form of punishment, but necessarily jail time.
A courts martial allows the defendant to plead not guilty, be represented by counsel, bring witnesses, etc…much like a civilian court. The big difference is who the jury is. In a courts martial, the jury is generally mostly officers and some senior enlisted; but they are not “your peers”.
The result of a courts martial is similar to a civilian trial also in the outcome: Guilty or Not Guilty. The danger of a Guilty verdict is that it always will be worse than NJP, will almost always result in a discharge, and is more likely to contain jail time.
Once you request a courts martial, the military will throw every conceivable charge against you, and a guilty verdict can quickly add up to some lengthy prison terms.
Why did they request a courts martial? They want the DoD to punish them publicly for a “fat lip” instead of killing Mr. Asshole.
That’s a great headline, isn’t it?
BobMbx on November 24, 2009 at 8:30 PM
You got it right. The investment in creating a SEAL is very large, and trashing them for a political point would be the equal of junking out an F-15 because someone didn’t like to color of the seats.
MikeA on November 24, 2009 at 8:32 PM
Time to stop giving Obama and his ilk more victories no more prisoners.
elduende on November 24, 2009 at 8:40 PM
Holger on November 24, 2009 at 8:28 PM
dmann on November 24, 2009 at 8:40 PM
dmann on November 24, 2009 at 8:22 PM
dmann on November 24, 2009 at 8:40 PM
+1000
Static21 on November 24, 2009 at 8:43 PM
Allah, get a f#@king clue. Maybe some people need to be reminded there is REAL WAR going on the other side of the world and people are dying, more importantly US soldiers are dying. Let me stress that again… THERE IS A WAR GOING ON. . For those of us who served it is an insult to suggest some kind of politically correct penalty on a soldier who in a worst case scenario beat the daylights out of some dirt bag who is guilty of killing multiple Americans. Some you out there need to grow a pair. Bloody lip?? I’ve seen worse stuff at a little league baseball game.
Indian Outlaw on November 24, 2009 at 8:47 PM
AP, you earned the beat down from Jimbo at Blackfive. BIG. TIME.
Haji is damn lucky a busted lip is all he got.
Pilgrim on November 24, 2009 at 8:47 PM
Static21, you don’t know what YOU’RE talking about…in this case.
Yes, if you turn down an Article 15 hearing then a Courts Martial is the result. But Non-Judicial Punishment is essentially what it sounds like: you’re pleading “Guilty!” and the presiding Officer hands out the punishment.
These SEALs refused to plead GUILTY! Thus in effect they demanded the Court Martial.
No offense, but I spent 8 years in the Marines…I do know how it works.
Justrand on November 24, 2009 at 8:48 PM
Couldn’t have said it any better.
Indian Outlaw on November 24, 2009 at 8:49 PM
Busted Lip? He got off easy. If it was me I’d have chained him to the back of the Humvee and let him go road surfing.
Holger on November 24, 2009 at 8:51 PM
Sorry, Dude, this is total BS. These guys are heroes. Prosecuting them is one of the most shameful acts yet committed by Obama. If the Iraqi’s or any body wants to whine about the treatment afforded this butthole, well, tough. The politics of this ought to be quite interesting.
DocinPA on November 24, 2009 at 8:54 PM
So who is going to be court martialed for giving the Second BIG O her “fat rump”?
Can’t wait to see
proudteadrinker on November 24, 2009 at 9:02 PM
Justrand on November 24, 2009 at 8:48 PM
Again, w/ all due respect…I have 32 Airmen under and deal w/ this stuff all the time-I DO know what I am talking about
You are not pleading guilty by turning down an Article 15.
This is the normal flow and process when you are presented
w/, lets say, things that might not be in your favor.At this point, you must take all the “stuff” the commander’s
has presented and march on over to the Area Defense Counsel.
The ADC will suggest, the evidence your Commander has on you holds water or not. They must have a real good case if the ADC advises going to To Courts Marshal w/ this case-knowing at this point nothing is guaranteed. He could be found innocent OR guilty and then up to the judge to decise punishment if found guilty
Static21 on November 24, 2009 at 9:04 PM
Static21 on November 24, 2009 at 9:04 PM
KEY..you, hiding in back…pay attention please…
your the ones that will most benefit for this!!!!
Never gets easier, does it………
dmann on November 24, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Or stay one second past retirement eligibility. F’in ridiculous. They should have wasted the asshole and been done with it. We’d have given them medals, but rough up the scum bag a little and we ruin your career…ridiculous!
jwp1964 on November 24, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Being a former SEAL myself, and also having an investigation be held against someone in my platoon from the incident that happened in 2004 in Iraq (yes, the one mentioned at the end of the article from FOX), this is a travesty. At the end of that railroad, all got off. I won’t say anything more about it.
We had another incident during that same deployment when we turned a guy over to an Army base, and then the next day our platoon was accused of abuse. Lucky for us we had the Medic transfer slip from the Army saying that nothing was wrong with the guy who, all of a sudden the next morning, had bruises. I was questioned for this one by NCIS in the states about it….I told them I couldn’t remember a thing.
This guy has a fat lip…so what! Who’s to say it didn’t happen during capture. It happens all the time. They fall, resist, do something stupid and you have no choice but to use all and necessary force. What isn’t to say he didn’t do it to himself? He said that he got punched in the stomach…where’s the proof. Are they just going to take his word for it? They are trusting someone who killed contractors and strung them up after he burned their bodies…just great!
What the f__k!
Patriot Vet on November 24, 2009 at 9:16 PM
LOL, AP is clueless. Seriously, you know absolutely nothing about what the military needs. Let me help you out of your pacifist vegan atheist cultist ways. What the us military really needs is your nonjudgmental uncompromising support. The last thing the need is having to fear they will be second guessed by the clueless looking over their broad shoulders while they protect us.
ray on November 24, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Patriot Vet on November 24, 2009 at 9:16 PM
’nuff said! Thank you.
Static21 on November 24, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Static21 on November 24, 2009 at 8:01 PM
I just retired after 22 years in the AF. I spent 12 years as Security Police/Security Forces, was a Combat Arms supervisor and finished up my career at the 342 TRS – the AF Special Ops ‘Induction’ Squadron.
If these guys were offered NJP, the JAG has already been involved, looked at the evidence for the NJP and advised the Commander he had enough for that. JAG’s also make determinations if there is enough to proceed to court, in the case of someone turning down NJP. It does’t always work out, but if there is enough for NJP, the military feels there is enough to prosecute in court. Of course you are right that this is a normal part of the process.
As to what a judge might sentence. You know as well as I do the UCMJ spells out minimum/maximum penalties for offences. For the charges I have seen, none of those carry anything less than what I explained above and a “wrist slap” isn’t one of them.
More info is needed on the specific charges to make a better call on possible punishment though.
Falsifying a statement is probably the easiest one to hang someone up on, again depending on the other charges.
I’m not saying this is right. Nor do I agree with it. But given the political climate and the way the Iraqis are pushing this, look for extreme pressure on the government to ‘make an example’.
catmman on November 24, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Your word vs AP. Nopw let’s see. OK you win.
And thanks for your service.
MikeA on November 24, 2009 at 9:23 PM
Commitment knows no bounds, of all the scenes out there, this still waters my eyes…
dmann on November 24, 2009 at 9:25 PM
Had Obama been prez during WW2, we’d be blogging in German.
angryed on November 24, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Austrian…
huckelberry on November 24, 2009 at 9:26 PM
AP,
Are you kidding me? Wrist slap??? What the heck do you think this is? Kindegarden? These men face possible career ender here thanks to PC gone berserk. A fat lib? Did you or Obama see the skinned bodies of four AMERICANS hanging from the bridge? They should have castrated the SOB so he couldn’t enjoy his 72 virgins. This Administrations ROE is insane. I can’t believe they are even being brought up on charges. What is wrong with the military is too Da– many lawyers watching each and every move a brave soldier / seal / jarhead does.
I don’t understand your political calculations here. This egregious piece of garbage killed four of our citizens and he complains about a fat lib? And what is worse is our leaders listen to him. Here’s an idea. How about we take the side of our brave Navy Seals and tell the Iraqi political machinations to lump it!!!!
aigle on November 24, 2009 at 9:27 PM
catmman on November 24, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Agreed that JAG has already been involved and have made recommendations to the Commander to push forward w/ NJP-the
Commander always works closely w/ JAG because they have to be prepared to proceed w/ Courts Martial if the accused turns down NJP. JAG may have evidence, but still Courts Martial proceedings are like beng accused of something in the civilian world. The accused has the right, like any other American citizen to have his day in court. Just because JAG may have enough evidence to proceed doesn’t mean it is a slam dunk when it comes to a Courts Martial. The accused have a right to a trial by jury like everybody else, and of course, there is ALWAYS two sides to any story. Like I said early, they could very well be found innocent OR guilty, and then up to the Judge to administer punishment accordingly..always mitigating circumstances at that point, though…
Static21 on November 24, 2009 at 9:31 PM
heard Allah was being an idiot tonight
unseen on November 24, 2009 at 9:35 PM
No, they would have taken the NJP if they didn’t want it bad for the military. A court martial will be an actual trial, whereas an NJP would have been done by their commanding officer. An NJP there is no evidence to be given, but in the Court Martial they have their side heard as well.
Static21 on November 24, 2009 at 9:19 PM
MikeA on November 24, 2009 at 9:23 PM
It was my honor to serve, and no problem.
Patriot Vet on November 24, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Yep, same as every other night.
ray on November 24, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Sometimes I have to really wonder about you, AP.
Saltysam on November 24, 2009 at 9:40 PM
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