Obama’s decision: 34,000 troops to Afghanistan

posted at 8:48 am on November 24, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

McClatchy reports that Barack Obama made his decision last night on Afghanistan, and has decided on a number between McChrystal’s medium- and high-risk plans.  Instead of 40,000 or 20,000, Obama will send an additional 34,000 troops to bolster the NATO forces and employ the counterinsurgency strategy that he publicly demanded for two years and made official US policy in March.  However, McClatchy also reports that Obama won’t announce the new numbers until next week:

President Barack Obama met Monday evening with his national security team to finalize a plan to dispatch some 34,000 additional U.S. troops over the next year to what he’s called “a war of necessity” in Afghanistan, U.S. officials told McClatchy.

Obama is expected to announce his long-awaited decision on Dec. 1, followed by meetings on Capitol Hill aimed at winning congressional support amid opposition by some Democrats who are worried about the strain on the U.S. Treasury and whether Afghanistan has become a quagmire, the officials said.

The U.S. officials all spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren’t authorized to discuss the issue publicly and because, one official said, the White House is incensed by leaks on its Afghanistan policy that didn’t originate in the White House.

Perhaps part of their reluctance would also be that Obama threatened to fire anyone who leaked information about his decision.  The comment about “not originating in the White House” seems odd, too.  Did the White House want to pin the leaks on the Pentagon?  Sourcing these as “US officials” makes it as generic as possible; that term could apply to an EPA clerk.

The new plan contains the “off-ramps” Obama demanded from his national security team.  Those begin to arrive as early as June, according to McClatchy, giving the US a few easy outs if Obama chooses to retreat.  If the “political side” or the war itself doesn’t improve, Obama apparently wants to get out altogether.  In other words, this looks like McChrystal’s last stand.  Next week, McChrystal will return to DC in order to help Obama roll this out, where Obama will almost certainly get significant pushback from Democrats in Congress over the cost and the need to keep fighting.

The increase in troops is a good decision, but the off-ramps almost completely undermine it.  The point in extending our footprint is to win the trust of the local communities and prove our reliability in providing them security, which is the central thrust of McChrystal’s COIN strategy.  By getting them to trust our commitment, we can get them to help fight the Taliban themselves, as we did with the Anbar Awakening in Iraq against al-Qaeda, and greatly improve the intel we get from the locals.   If we send 34,000 more troops but give ourselves a six-month time frame for success or bug-out, the locals will very  quickly come to the realization that allying with us will be suicide.  The COIN strategy only worked in Iraq because George W. Bush was adamant that we would stay until we won.

A Commander in Chief doesn’t need “off-ramps.”  Any President can call an end to a deployment based on his own judgment.  Putting these conditions into the American strategy signals weakness — a desire to pull out without getting blamed for the decision.   Obama wants to be off the hook for an eventual withdrawal by claiming that he’s forced to do it because of these benchmark failures.  And if Obama’s that keen to retreat, he should just do it now.

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rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Just my .02, Everything we hear and read is filtered through Obama except occasionally when a few people like hawkdriver give us an unfiltered assessment where the proverbial tire meets the road. I have 100% empathy and sympathy for those who can find the time to accurately give their opinions.

fourdeucer on November 24, 2009 at 11:38 AM

Clearly time for Bleeds Bile to take the next off-ramp

DarkCurrent on November 24, 2009 at 10:25 AM

Went back to the beginning…love the name change, DC!

ladyingray on November 24, 2009 at 11:38 AM

This.

They could not beat a rag-tag militia in 7 years while consuming 20% of American budget. That’s pretty disgraceful, actually.

Then this.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Please see the context: All I meant is there was no need for invasion if all Iraq was doing was troubling our air force. We could have smashed them and keep smashing them for ever.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:29 AM

Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 11:39 AM

And we are still there after 8 years. Calculate the number of days too.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 10:49 AM

How long were we in Japan…you throw out these stupid statements, statements straight from Huffpo or MediaMatters, and then you don’t back them up with anything.
They are just talking points you copy and paste from liberal websites.
We have seen this time and time again from you guys.
When breaking news happens, we hear nothing from you liberal posters, until the talking points are printed and posted on the websites, then you begin spewing the same exact things as your leaders ask you to say.
Here are the talking points:
Bush ignored the war in Afghan
Bush was distracted by Iraq
Even though it has now come to light that he had detailed plans, and Obama continued to follow them (then attempt to take credit).
Liberals haven’t come up with talking points regarding the false data on global warming, so they ignore it until they have developed their points.
The haven’t come up with talking points regarding the false data on jobs at recovery.org, so they just ignore it.
On Afghan, they have developed their talking points, and you regurgitate them perfectly…however you miss or ignore the false accusation of Bush ignoring the Afghan war, since you point out that Obama had not (he employed Bush’s plans).
That throws a wrench in your talking points, so you ignore it.

right2bright on November 24, 2009 at 11:41 AM

If it goes for a nuclear bomb, then i think we should let the Israel take care of the “business.”

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:35 AM

If? You do have an empty tin can for a head, don’t you?

AsianGirlInTights on November 24, 2009 at 11:41 AM

He plays with people’s lives….

CynicalOptimist on November 24, 2009 at 11:41 AM

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 11:34 AM

rightistliberal, here’s another military expert for your team. I heard he has a neater basement than you too.

fogw on November 24, 2009 at 11:42 AM

Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 11:39 AM

Excellent…this is what happens when they get off their talking points…this is why Obama uses a teleprompter almost exclusively. They contradict each other because all they have is a “menu”, they have no real plan, action. or policy.

right2bright on November 24, 2009 at 11:44 AM

If you start thinking about money, then you want to lose the war.

What a foolish thing to say have you never heard the term Pyrrhic Victory? Bankrupting a nation to pussy foot around in Afghanistan winning hearts and minds is a losing strategy. The public is not going to support this much longer. Once this becomes a huge political liability it will end.

But there is no urgency because as soon as one enemy is no more, another will surely take his place. All is constantly changing as rulers and nations rise and fall. Only the empire is eternal — if, that is, it does not exhaust itself.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/017/131xyleq.asp

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 11:45 AM

You are wrong. I am merely pointing out that ROE’s would need to change if we are following a COIN strategy. That strategy was not obviously devised by me. But it brought us success in Iraq. Will that work in Afghanistan? I don’t know. But that is what we have gone for.

Hawk is echoing the reality of his fellow Soldiers on the ground.
ROE’s and the unnecessary danger that they put our troops in have been discussed and condemned on almost every military blog and this blog for the past year.

These are not the same ROE’s that worked in Iraq and there is an overriding consensus by military personnel and strategist that they seriously handcuff our Soldiers,many times leading to their deaths:


Battling the Rules of Engagement in Afghanistan

BY Herschel Smith
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2009/11/16/battling-the-rules-of-engagement-in-afghanistan/

“Has anyone seen the [Afghan National Army] guys?” asked Capt. Thoreen, 30, the commander of Blackwatch Company, 2nd Battalion, 1st Infantry Regiment with the 5th Stryker

Brigade. “Are they not showing up?”

A soldier, who looked ghostly in the reddish light of a headlamp, shook his head.
“We can’t do anything if we don’t have the ANA or [the Afghan National Police],” said a frustrated Capt. Thoreen.

“We have to follow the Karzai 12 rules. But the Taliban has no rules,” he said. “Our soldiers have to juggle all these rules and regulations and they do it without hesitation despite everything. It’s not easy for anyone out here.”

“Karzai 12″ refers to Afghanistan’s newly re-elected president, Hamid Karzai, and a dozen rules set down by Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, the commander of U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan, to try to keep Afghan civilian casualties to a minimum.

“It’s a framework to ensure cultural sensitivity in planning and executing operations,” said Capt. Thoreen. “It’s set of rules and could be characterized as part of the ROE,” he said, referring to the rules of engagement.
Dozens of U.S. soldiers who spoke to The Washington Times during a recent visit to southern Afghanistan said these rules sometimes make a perilous mission even more difficult and dangerous.

Many times, the soldiers said, insurgents have escaped because U.S. forces are enforcing the rules. Meanwhile, they say, the toll of U.S. dead and injured is mounting.

[ ... ]
The Times compiled an informal list of the new rules from interviews with U.S. forces. Among them:


• No night or surprise searches.


• Villagers have to be warned prior to searches.


• ANA or ANP must accompany U.S. units on searches.


• U.S. soldiers may not fire at the enemy unless the enemy is preparing to fire first.


• U.S. forces cannot engage the enemy if civilians are present.

• Only women can search women.


• Troops can fire at an insurgent if they catch him placing an IED but not if insurgents are walking away from an area where explosives have been laid.


New Rules of Engagement in Afghanistan Prove Deadly for US Troops

http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=292029

U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren’t near the village.

And so four Marines died in the ambush.

This is a serious problem and goes right to the heart of competency in conducting this war.
Defeating our enemies will put them in a lot more “conciliatory role” to negotiate and help fight against the Taliban than “playing nice”.

We defeated al-qaeda/militias in Iraq and showed we were not only the strongest force their, but were not going anywhere until the job was done.

That is what fueled the “Awakening” which lead to victory in Iraq.

The Afghan tribal lords go by the same rules.
They are going to go with the strongest force that shows the strongest commitment.

Apparently Obama knows no more about this than he does “cost and profit ratio’s” because instead of wanting to defeat the enemy…..the Obama administration simply just wants to “rename” them and pretend their “moderates”.

The Mother of All Expiration Dates: The Taliban Is No Longer a Direct Threat to Us
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZjZlM2I1MDA5YWIzMzMyMTYxYmViZjA0MWIzMjFlYmY=

Then-candidate Barack Obama, July 15, 2008:
Our troops and our NATO allies are performing heroically in Afghanistan, but I have argued for years that we lack the resources to finish the job because of our commitment to Iraq. That’s what the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said earlier this month. And that’s why, as President, I will make the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban the top priority that it should be. This is a war that we have to win.

And then in August, before the VFW:
This is the central front in the war on terrorism. This is where the Taliban is gaining strength and launching new attacks, including one that just took the life of ten French soldiers. This is where Osama bin Laden and the same terrorists who killed nearly 3,000 Americans on our own soil are hiding and plotting seven years after 9/11. This is a war that we have to win.

And then in his convention address:
I will end this war in Iraq responsibly, and finish the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan.

And then on October 22:
Abroad, we need a new direction that ends the war in Iraq, focuses on the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban, and restores strong alliances and tough American diplomacy.

The New York Times, today:

President Obama’s national security team is moving to reframe its war strategy by emphasizing the campaign against Al Qaeda in Pakistan while arguing that the Taliban in Afghanistan do not pose a direct threat to the United States, officials said Wednesday.

Real “smart power” there.

Baxter Greene on November 24, 2009 at 11:47 AM

rightistliberal, here’s another military expert for your team. I heard he has a neater basement than you too.

Your mom cleans it real well for me fogw

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 11:48 AM

They could not beat a rag-tag militia in 7 years while consuming 20% of American budget. That’s pretty disgraceful, actually.

Then this.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Please see the context: All I meant is there was no need for invasion if all Iraq was doing was troubling our air force. We could have smashed them and keep smashing them for ever.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:29 AM

Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 11:39 AM

There was an additional comment after that, go and read it.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:48 AM

How long were we in Japan…you throw out these stupid statements, statements straight from Huffpo or MediaMatters, and then you don’t back them up with anything.

How long did we fight in Japan? Enlighten me…

And btw, are you advocating a MacArthur plan for Af-Pak?

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:50 AM

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Wow, a trifecta of epic fails for A) B) & C).

You have just got to be currently in college, right? I actually kinda hope so, because if you’re older. . .

Jason Coleman on November 24, 2009 at 11:50 AM

If? You do have an empty tin can for a head, don’t you?

AsianGirlInTights on November 24, 2009 at 11:41 AM

Oh, that’s why Bush did not let Israel attack Iran? Got it.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:53 AM

I like that none of my fellow righties want to address the cost issue. Nor will any suggest what they personally would be willing to pay in to continue this policy. It is like talking to a college student about liberal welfare policies, they always want to spend more and sacrifice nothing. China won’t finance this war forever. Just like they won’t finance the US gov forever.

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 11:53 AM

You have just got to be currently in college, right? I actually kinda hope so, because if you’re older. . .

Jason Coleman on November 24, 2009 at 11:50 AM

No, but I actually did go to college. I understand that’s disqualifying in certain circles.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:54 AM

We keep a small # of special ops and spies, and perform targeted strikes with air power and assisnations of AQ Taliban leadership. When ever they set up a base camp (which we can see with ariel survailence) we attack them with air power/ commandos…. Oh and please give the the income tax % increase you would be willing to swallow to continue this BS war forever until we win?

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 11:34 AM

And, will you volunteer to be one of the special ops. My son and grandson did.
And do you think that just because you do not want to fight to win, that the talibin will quit.
And there is the small matter of logistics.

Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 11:55 AM

Jason Coleman

Let me guess, you didn’t.

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 11:55 AM

Oh, that’s why Bush did not let Israel attack Iran? Got it.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:53 AM

Bush hasn’t been President for almost a year Tin Head.

AsianGirlInTights on November 24, 2009 at 11:58 AM

medium- and high-risk plans

No problem putting others’ children in medium/high risk situations, so I’m sure Obama would have no problem sending Masheka Maleka Makima Ma his daughters to medium or high risk schools then. Right?

rogerb on November 24, 2009 at 11:59 AM

Barry wants to lose in Afghanistan. It’s obvious.

Christien on November 24, 2009 at 11:59 AM

This is actually pretty funny. How many years have we been in Afghanistan since the Taliban was “eradicated?”

Not to fight the last Administration or anything, but that paragraph is delusional.

Bleeds Blue on November 24, 2009 at 11:32 AM

What’s delusional is you piping up here with your liberal drivel and can’t back it up.

The Taliban are no longer running the government in Afghanistan like they were prior to our invasion.

This was accomplished in less time than it has taken Obama to supply his OWN STRATEGY.

Really not that hard to understand for a competent person.

But from reading your post, it is obvious that I could role your IQ level on a pair of dice so it is not hard to see why this would go right over your head.

I know this is hard for an idiot like you to understand,but it was stated over and over and over that “winning the peace” would be the difficult part of this war.

I know that is not ever mentioned over at huffpo so you probably have no understanding of what it takes to stop any type of insurgency or transform a terrorist country into a free society.

So bleeds,it has been you liberals and your messiah Obama who constantly told us about your “grand strategy and smart power” in winning in Afghanistan.

Instead of making idiotic remarks, why don’t you explain this “smart power” on winning the war.

Baxter Greene on November 24, 2009 at 11:59 AM

How long did we fight in Japan? Enlighten me…

And btw, are you advocating a MacArthur plan for Af-Pak?

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:50 AM

Unless I am wrong, we are still there; and in Germany and Italy and Korea……
And we did what was necessary to win in Germany and Japan.

Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 11:59 AM

And there is the small matter of logistics.

Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 11:55 AM

There is also a small matter of future intelligence gathering since that will dry up when we have no boots on the ground.

Just what kind of support does this idiot think America is going to get when troops are pulled out of Afghanistan allowing the Taliban and al-qeada to kill everyone who worked with NATO and then take the country back over.

Baxter Greene on November 24, 2009 at 12:02 PM

And, will you volunteer to be one of the special ops. My son and grandson did.

Answers #1 No #2 So? Who cares what your kids do? Is that supposed to give you credibility?

And do you think that just because you do not want to fight to win, that the talibin will quit.

Where did i say that exactly??? I never said don’t fight, I said fight with a smaller force and drop the nation building crap. We don’t need 100k men to kill Taliban/AQ leaders.

And there is the small matter of logistics.

Wouldn’t it be easier to support fewer troops?? Please think through what you type before you hit submit. One of the biggest hurdles facing the increase in troops was the logistical difficulty of supporting that many soldiers, especially in remote outposts.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091130/roston

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 12:03 PM

No, but I actually did go to college. I understand that’s disqualifying in certain circles.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:54 AM

Only if you allowed yourself to be indoctrinated with leftist, socialist/communist philosophy.

Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 12:04 PM

Just what kind of support does this idiot think America is going to get when troops are pulled out of Afghanistan allowing the Taliban and al-qeada to kill everyone who worked with NATO and then take the country back over.

After 911 we figured out where they were pretty quickly without tens of thousands of boots on the ground. Furthermore are we supposed to stay forever to prevent this?

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Bush hasn’t been President for almost a year Tin Head.

AsianGirlInTights on November 24, 2009 at 11:58 AM

Sweetheart, Bush stopped the attack on Iran in 2007-08 by denying overflying rights over Iraq.

Google!

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 12:06 PM

No, but I actually did go to college. I understand that’s disqualifying in certain circles.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:54 AM

Clown college doesn’t count, libtwit.

Laura in Maryland on November 24, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Ok, I have some egg on my face regarding

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Looks like you were expanding someone else’s quote.

Whoever you were quoting in your first paragraph had the trifecta.

Sorry about that.

Could you please use blockquotes when you’re quoting someone else. Even if you don’t identify them, at least I won’t attribute them to you.

Apology and truce offered.

PS – I don’t decry college, just have to identify those who are currently in the belly of the beast. I personally value college, but I also understand its very corrupt, inbred, politically correct and ideological nature.

Jason Coleman on November 24, 2009 at 12:08 PM

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 11:53 AM

Unlike all the welfare and special interest programs that make up the overwhelming majority of the expenses of our society, the Constitution actually mandates that our government protect this country.

Instead of whining about how much protecting this country is going to cost(which is a small amount of the countries budget compared to all the social programs), how about slashing the programs that our government is not mandated to fund to take care of the costs instead of the liberal way of “raising taxes” everytime something needs to be done.

Funny how liberals never worry about “the cost” unless it involves national defense.

Baxter Greene on November 24, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Unless I am wrong, we are still there; and in Germany and Italy and Korea……
And we did what was necessary to win in Germany and Japan.

Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 11:59 AM

yes, and prepared for conventional war. But we have not been fighting there fore few decades.

Afghanistan is more difficult…its a medieval society. A nation-bulding commitment would mean years and years of deployment. Worth doing? Perhaps. But then costs would have to be clearly calculated. Just the new troops will cost $34 billion a year.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Your mom cleans it real well for me fogw

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 11:48 AM

Not possible since she passed away several years ago.

What now b*tch?

fogw on November 24, 2009 at 12:10 PM

Looks like you were expanding someone else’s quote.

Whoever you were quoting in your first paragraph had the trifecta.

Sorry about that.

Could you please use blockquotes when you’re quoting someone else. Even if you don’t identify them, at least I won’t attribute them to you.

Apology and truce offered.

Sure, no worries mate. I usually do. Must have missed it.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Clown college doesn’t count, libtwit.

Laura in Maryland on November 24, 2009 at 12:06 PM

LOL! +10000

AsianGirlInTights on November 24, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Instead of whining about how much protecting this country is going to cost(which is a small amount of the countries budget compared to all the social programs), how about slashing the programs that our government is not mandated to fund to take care of the costs instead of the liberal way of “raising taxes” everytime something needs to be done.

Funny how liberals never worry about “the cost” unless it involves national defense.

You might be right about the progressives but our defense budget is hardly something to scoff at.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Sweetheart, Bush stopped the attack on Iran in 2007-08 by denying overflying rights over Iraq.

Google!

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Genius…Bush was not the leader of Israel.

If Israel thought their country was in danger, it would not stop an attack because “Bush said so” or ” flight rights were taken away”.

Obama has been trying to tell Israel what to do for months (such as settlement development), how has that worked out.

Baxter Greene on November 24, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Instead of whining about how much protecting this country is going to cost(which is a small amount of the countries budget compared to all the social programs), how about slashing the programs that our government is not mandated to fund to take care of the costs instead of the liberal way of “raising taxes” everytime something needs to be done.

Funny how liberals never worry about “the cost” unless it involves national defense.

I am not whinig about killing Taliban/AQ. I am whinig about nation building. Please quote the line from the constitution that obliges us to provide security for Afghanistan, or power for Afghanistan, or schools for afghanistan or democracy for afghanistan.

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 12:13 PM

Afghanistan is more difficult…its a medieval society. A nation-bulding commitment would mean years and years of deployment. Worth doing? Perhaps. But then costs would have to be clearly calculated. Just the new troops will cost $34 billion a year.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 12:09 PM

We can pay babymommas to get their nails done and crank out more social problems, but heaven forbid we pay brave Americans for defending our interests and rooting our terrorists who seek to destroy us (and you too, junior).

Laura in Maryland on November 24, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Please quote the line from the constitution that obliges us to provide security for Afghanistan, or power for Afghanistan, or schools for afghanistan or democracy for afghanistan.

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 12:13 PM

It’s right after the clause on abortion rights and just before free health care for everyone.

fogw on November 24, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Actually, on fifth and sixth readings, A) B) and C) are still epic fails.

The post as whole is a superfecta.

Apology still there, but I guess I’m violating the truce.

Jason Coleman on November 24, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Genius…Bush was not the leader of Israel.

If Israel thought their country was in danger, it would not stop an attack because “Bush said so” or ” flight rights were taken away”.

Obama has been trying to tell Israel what to do for months (such as settlement development), how has that worked out.

Baxter Greene on November 24, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Of course. But Israel is a close American ally, Bush had a lot of credibility with the regime and he did stop them. As I said google. I think NYT had a report on it.

Btw, is Israel a danger or not? Was it a danger in Bush years or not?

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 12:17 PM

fogw on November 24, 2009 at 12:16 PM


zing!

Laura in Maryland on November 24, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Funny how liberals never worry about “the cost” unless it involves national defense.
Baxter Greene on November 24, 2009 at 12:09 PM

But if you try to point out to a moonbat how horrifically inefficient the government is, they always say: “Look how great the military’s doing.”

Well, hey, guess what? That’s because it’s the military’s JOB to screw things up! That’s nearly the only business the government should be involved in.

Whether it’s charity, medicine, banking, building cars, etc., etc., etc…. liberals always want to treat everything in the world like a war, except of course for actual WAR itself.

logis on November 24, 2009 at 12:17 PM

We can pay babymommas to get their nails done and crank out more social problems, but heaven forbid we pay brave Americans for defending our interests and rooting our terrorists who seek to destroy us (and you too, junior).

Laura in Maryland on November 24, 2009 at 12:14 PM

By all means, pay. And we do spend a substantial sum of money. But that does not mean an open ended commitment to the people of AAfghanistan. We owe them nothing.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 12:20 PM

You might be right about the progressives but our defense budget is hardly something to scoff at.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 12:12 PM

I am not scoffing at it, I am watching the Obama administration cut it during a time of war while they give Acorn,Hamas,and the Unions Billions of dollars.

Our defense budget only makes up a small part of overall spending but is always treated as some lightening rod when debated in Congress or when war is being talked about.

The liberals have gone out of their way in lying and using smoke screens in selling there government take over of health care without “raising taxes on 90% of Americans” or ” adding to the deficits” when everyone who is crunching these numbers and knows what this bill entails says just the opposite.

Why won’t the liberals play the same “hide the cost” games when it comes to national defense.

Because it does not fit their socialist agenda so when more troops are mentioned, it’s “but it costs to much”.

How come they were not yelling this over the two years that Obama was making all those promises about winning in Afghanistan?……because it would not work out well at the voting booth….

How Progressive!!!!!

Baxter Greene on November 24, 2009 at 12:20 PM

That’s because it’s the military’s JOB to screw things up!

Excellent and truthful point which is all to often ignored.

That’s nearly the only business the government should be involved in.

Ditto!

Jason Coleman on November 24, 2009 at 12:21 PM

So when can we expect B.O. to head to Afghanistan so as to bow before the Taliban?

pilamaye on November 24, 2009 at 12:22 PM

By all means, pay. And we do spend a substantial sum of money. But that does not mean an open ended commitment to the people of AAfghanistan. We owe them nothing.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 12:20 PM

We owe the American people security. The best way to do that is to go after the terrorists. That is for us. The common defense is one of the few things spelled out in the constitution that the federal government is obligated to do.

Laura in Maryland on November 24, 2009 at 12:24 PM

This proves that Obama is just another neocon…

The Dean on November 24, 2009 at 12:24 PM

We owe them nothing.

Except our very ideals.

See: some dusty document from July 4th 1776

Jason Coleman on November 24, 2009 at 12:25 PM

This proves that Obama is just another neocon…

The Dean on November 24, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Awwwwwwwwwwww. Your boy let you down?

Get in line.

fogw on November 24, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Laura in Maryland on November 24, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Hey, they were merely our allies in fighting the Soviets. Like Kos says, Screw Them.

Christien on November 24, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Btw, is Israel a danger or not? Was it a danger in Bush years or not?

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Israel is only a “danger” to the enemies that want to destroy it.

I don’t recall Bush ever getting to the podium and announcing “Israel is a danger” or that it was a problem for us.

If Bush denied fly over rights to Israel, it could be for several reasons.

He most certainly would not want all out war breaking out with the Arab countries and Israel when we were close to succeeding in Iraq.

Or what could be very likely is that the Bush administration leaked this for cover if Israel did launch an attack.

Either way…if the Israelis thought they were in immediate danger of Iran’s having an atomic bomb,they would not wait to get permission.
They would do what they had to do to protect their country, just like we would and just about any other country,alliance or not.

Bush or Obama could certainly make things difficult, but would not stop Israel who learned this lesson from the Hitler debacle that cost them millions of lives.

Baxter Greene on November 24, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Awwwwwwwwwwww. Your boy let you down?

Get in line.

fogw on November 24, 2009 at 12:26 PM

I never supported him.

The Dean on November 24, 2009 at 12:30 PM

Btw, is Israel a danger or not

To who?

The U.S.? No.

Jason Coleman on November 24, 2009 at 12:30 PM

We gain no security from this operation. The hijackers were from all over the world, the attacks were planned in Hamburg and Spain, and the flight lessons were taken in san diego.

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 11:34 AM

But the Taliban in Afghanistan gave bin Laden and al Qaeda sanctuary and refused to hand them over to the US when asked to do so.

Don’t get out of the basement much, do you? Empty pizza boxes and Mountain Dew cans blocking the door again?

Del Dolemonte on November 24, 2009 at 12:37 PM

I never supported him.

The Dean on November 24, 2009 at 12:30 PM

But you are a Bush/Cheney hater, right?

fogw on November 24, 2009 at 12:38 PM

And down by 1 after th touchdown Coach Obama decided to spike the ball instead of kicking the field goal to tie. Team Obama loses 21-20

Rbastid on November 24, 2009 at 12:38 PM

No, but I actually did go to college. I understand that’s disqualifying in certain circles.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 11:54 AM

LOL, most of us went to real colleges. Not Moe Howard University like yourself.

Del Dolemonte on November 24, 2009 at 12:41 PM

All the soldiers killed
Between December and June:
Political Cover.

Zero needs a way
To shift blame to someone else.
Will kill to get it.

Haiku Guy on November 24, 2009 at 12:41 PM

Sure, no worries mate. I usually do. Must have missed it.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 12:11 PM

An Aussie, by chance?

Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 12:42 PM

fogw on November 24, 2009 at 12:38 PM

He’s a Paulian.

LOL, most of us went to real colleges. Not Moe Howard University like yourself.
Del Dolemonte on November 24, 2009 at 12:41 PM

But he remembers the fight song: Be-ay-bay, be-ee-be, be-aye-biccie-bye, be-o-bo…

kingsjester on November 24, 2009 at 12:43 PM

McChrystal told obaby four months ago that with the requested reinforcements, they only had a year to turn things around. Now because of obama’s stonewalling it’s down to eight months plus the time it takes to deploy 34,000. And just because “he’s a jackass”, obaby couldn’t have sent 40,000, oh, no,no,no. So now, obaby wants out in six months and he knows he’ll get it because he made sure he queered the timeline so that we are guaranteed to fail and he will of course blame Bush.

With obaby as CinC, those poor troops should be brought home
now, before more needlessly die,and his big, bad words about knowing how to win this war and finding and killing bin laden, right in his very own cave, should be shoved down his throat daily.

tigerlily on November 24, 2009 at 12:46 PM

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091130/roston

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 12:03 PM

Some friendly advice, kid. You may want to cite another source.

Del Dolemonte on November 24, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Truman-MacArthur Redux.

BTW, we’re still in Korea, holding on to a cease-fire. If MacArthur had won the argument, it’s quite possible Obama would have just finished a visit to the worlds largest democracy.

But, no. We had to fight the “nice” kind of war. Whatever that is. And it ain’t in the Army Field manual.

Can we expect a cease-fire with Al Qaeda and the Taliban soon? Where will the Peace talks occur? Will Obama break the record for longest negotiation on determining the location of the peace talks?

BobMbx on November 24, 2009 at 12:47 PM

The new plan contains the “off-ramps” Obama demanded from his national security team.

I think Li’l Barry meant “car pool lanes.” He’s very worried about the environment.

George Orwell on November 24, 2009 at 12:47 PM

OldEnglish on November 24, 2009 at 10:16 AM

So we now negotiate with terrorists? Just F%%king Great. Pardon my French. Have these bloodsuckers no soul? They are hanging our Troops out to dry.

LSUMama on November 24, 2009 at 1:12 PM

Off-ramps.

Jorge Bonilla on November 24, 2009 at 1:18 PM

snoopicus on November 24, 2009 at 12:03 PM

Does that mean you will volunteer or will not volunteer? And from where were these “volunteers” supposed to get their support?

Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 1:19 PM

The only thing George Bush ever took his eyes off of were the freaking traitorous liberals who couldn’t let politics stop at our shoreline.

hawkdriver on November 24, 2009 at 10:17 AM

You are simply awesum Sir. Please stay safe and don`t let up for any reason.

LSUMama on November 24, 2009 at 1:19 PM

BobMbx on November 24, 2009 at 12:47 PM

The 49th Parallel.

Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 1:27 PM

The only thing George Bush ever took his eyes off of were the freaking traitorous liberals who couldn’t let politics stop at our shoreline.

hawkdriver on November 24, 2009 at 10:17 AM

“Enemies Foreign and Domestic”

Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Sir, merely serving in a war theatre makes you no expert in COIN. That’s like a assembly worker claiming he knows all about cars because he turns one screw. Sorry for being blunt.

rightistliberal on November 24, 2009 at 10:39 AM

Thats it , time for you to take your toys and go home. You couldn`t even stand in Hawkdrivers shadow much less carry his lunchbox.

LSUMama on November 24, 2009 at 1:31 PM

This number was leaked well over a month ago. It was the plan all along despite Robert Gibbs numerous discussions about how seriously the filthy lying coward is taking this decision. It was also already decided well before the rat bastard traitor went to Dover and interjected himself into the return of fallen heroes.

That is part of what is appalling here- the decision was made weeks ago but has been delayed for political reasons. Troops have been killed because Obama is waiting until the optimum time to announce this (when the radical left are too damned busy attacking nativity scenes on public property to care about the troop increase). OUR TROOPS DESERVE BETTER THAN THE COWARD IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

highhopes on November 24, 2009 at 9:28 AM

Right on, highhopes. The mere appearance that he has been playing politics with the troops lives is evident everywhere – trips to Copenhagen, golf games, Asia, meeting with McChyrstal just once in the past year, while his SEIU lead thug has been to see him at the White House 22 times.
And, the fact that McChrystal had to speak out publicly to try to get the stinker to make a move – and even that hasn’t worked.

Add to this the fact that while he stonewalled, nobody ever bothered to ask just what the specific question(s) were that weren’t already answered that could be taking literally months to figure out.

And in a just world, the mere appearance of playing politics and costing American lives should warrant an investigation, where it will be found that the stalling for his political advantage has cost the lives of our brethren, whereupon he would be tried and found guilty of the treason which he perpetrates with such impunity that I guess nobody can believe their own lying eyes.

tigerlily on November 24, 2009 at 1:42 PM

This proves that Obama is just another neocon…

The Dean on November 24, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Worse. He ran on a platform of hopey-changey rhetoric with no experience, giving promises in amounts and on issues anyone with two brain cells could see would be thrown straight out the window once he actually got elected.

Lo and behold, that’s exactly what happened.

At this point I’d stand for a progressive who kept their promises and started whipping federal finances and services into shape. Taxes wouldn’t be nearly as painful to pay if they weren’t being funneled into inefficient social programs, useless pork, and half-baked ‘wars’.

Dark-Star on November 24, 2009 at 2:04 PM

Yeah , cut the troops requested and make the mission more likely to fail because you lack the courage to either fight to win or withdraw . This guy is not content with only wrecking the economy .

borntoraisehogs on November 24, 2009 at 2:12 PM

Bleeds Blue, snoopicus, rightistliberal, all have short memories about how the War on Terror started, who was ascendant in Afghanistan when (2005 was certainly not a banner year for the Taliban, neither was 2007, although they had certainly grown stronger), and what the underlying reason is we fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Their politics makes it imperative to “correct” a situation in Pakistan by force of arms, if necessary, and yet to abandon force in Afghanistan, and retreat in the face of aggression everywhere it is found.

Our military is the fiercest, most well trained, best equipped, and superbly professional military the world has ever seen, bar none. It didn’t get that way by starving it of funds when combat operations became hazardous, or when one political party decided to fund its own partisan agenda by starving DoD of requested funds.

It got that way by the funding of professionals’ requests by Congress, and by the sheer will power of superior leadership under Ronald Reagan and the Men he appointed to head DoD at the time to form the superior volunteer force we have today. We are second to none. There is no peer on ANY battlefield.

The bottom line on why we invaded Afghanistan is because that is where the terrorists who began this war were hiding. We invaded Iraq because Islam is the problem, although we refuse to say it out loud. To change Islam and separate it from the bloodthirsty barbaric regimes it corrupts as a system of religious government, we must go on the offensive somewhere. Afghanistan is not the center of radical Islam. Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran, and the countries of the Persian Gulf are the centers of radical Islam. To change them, an example must be made of one.

The country which failed to cooperate was chosen to be the centerpiece of the War To Change Islam, as Iraq had the longest history of troublemaking and failed to cooperate at all after 9-11. Therefore, the invasion was launched, under a host of reasons, although WMD programs and stockpiles is a far more compelling reason to cite than its support of terrorist training grounds.

Thru the invasion and subsequent occupation, radical Islam was defeated and an example of a more moderate Islam is being introduced. That introduction is not over yet. It won’t be for many years. It must be introduced in every theater where we have a foothold, in order to ensure Islam moderates itself, or the result will be a nuclear catastrophe…. for every country in the Middle East and South Asia. That includes Afghanistan.

The first nuke explosion in America guarantees the nuclear annihilation of each and every Muslim country which has used the “Great Satan” as its excuse for violence. You may disagree that this will happen, but most of us will not be dissuaded from assuring this violent end to radical Islam once a nuclear weapon from the Middle Eastern Terrorists eliminates 4 million Americans in a microsecond.

As a refresher, I would quote the following:

Views on the war in Iraq now transcend reasonable discussion. The war rests in the realm of emotion, warped by the hysteria of partisan bickering.

The result is that we have forgotten why we invaded Iraq in long-ago 2003. We cannot agree why we had problems after the stunning removal of Saddam Hussein. And we are not sure either whether we are winning — or why we even should.

WHY WE INVADED
After the victory of the 1991 Gulf War, a bipartisan consensus had emerged that Saddam Hussein had to be contained — by both arms and sanctions. Our government wanted to prevent him from using oil revenues to obtain more dangerous weapons, destroying more of his own people, and from attacking or invading yet a fifth nearby country. Few, if any, disagreed.

But after September 11, and the realization that state-sponsored terrorists from the Middle East had the desire to destroy the United States and the capability to do it great harm, the decade-long containment of Saddam Hussein, in light also of his serial violations of both armistice and U.N. accords, was considered inadequate. Few disagreed.

So both houses of Congress, backed by an overwhelming majority of the American people, authorized the use of military force to remove Saddam Hussein, at the vigorous request of the President.

THE WMD DEBACLE
Though the Congress in October 2002 formulated 23 different reasons why Saddam posed a threat to our security, the administration — in easy hindsight, quite wrongly — mostly privileged and exaggerated just one writ: Saddam’s arsenals of weapons of mass destruction might enhance Middle East terrorist operations enough to trump even what we had witnessed on 9/11.

Supporters of a narrow war to remove WMDs relied on a past, though false consensus of such an existential threat; it was one, however, that had nevertheless prompted embargoes, sanctions, no-fly zones, and periodic bombing. Perhaps they were sure of such a WMD danger because it had been formulated at home in the 1990s and echoed abroad by both European and Middle Eastern agencies — and alone would galvanize the public in a way the other sanctioned casus belli might not.

Nevertheless, when such weapons were not found in Iraq, and the insurgency imperiled the brilliant three-week victory, the case for the war, in the eyes of many, collapsed. It did so on both moral and practical grounds. For some reason, no one cared that the other twenty-some Congressional causes were still as valid as when they had been first approved in October 2002.

THE VICTORY OVER SADDAM
We now argue over the requisite number of troops necessary in the aftermath of Iraq. Few, however, complain about the three-week victory of March and April 2003, in which U.S. military and coalition forces, at very little loss, destroyed the Baathist government and removed Saddam Hussein with about 250,000 troops. Someone did something right, though exactly who and what is now forgotten.

THE WAR OVER THE WAR
The real controversy arose, however, over the subsequent four-year occupation and reconstruction, in which nearly 4,000 American lives were lost and over a half a billion dollars were spent to stabilize the fragile postwar democracy.

The debate, since 2003, has hinged on our own culpability, and postfacto, on our reasons for going into Iraq in the first place. It has focused almost solely on American lapses, not recognition of either the capability, or zeal, or brutality of the enemy. Acrimony instead arose over our inability to stop the looting, the dissolution of the Iraqi army, the laxity in patrolling ammunition dumps and borders, the first pull-back from Fallujah, and our naiveté in allowing Shiite militias, particularly those under the control of Moqtada Sadr, to act as destructive surrogates for an ascendant Iran.

THE TABOO CONSIDERATIONS
Rarely did anyone remind the American people — nor would they have desired to hear — that in all of America’s major wars such tragic errors of commission and judgment were commonplace, or that our present lapses were not in that regard at all unique. The initial victory had raised expectations so high that such reflection would have been seen as little more than morbid fatalism.

Rarely also did we hear that our missteps were not only correctable (as for example the recapture of Fallujah or the reconstitution of the Iraqi army attest), but also did not imperil the ultimate goal of stabilizing the Iraqi government. And almost none suggested that in a televised war of the postmodern age, it is difficult for a liberal Western society to defeat and humiliate an enemy — at least to the degree necessary for it to accept a radical change of heart.

Also forgotten was any appreciation of the magnitude of the undertaking — going 7,000 miles into the ancient caliphate to foster constitutional government where it had never taken root, among outright enemies like Iran and Syria, and duplicitous allies such as Saudi Arabia and Jordan. In that regard, to suggest the tragic loss of lives and money in Iraq were, by standards of our past major wars, a reflection of American competence and concern was paramount to blasphemy.

THE CONTINUANCE
Yet for all the acrimony and dramatic loss of both political and public support, the United States continued its efforts to secure the fragile democracy and unite the warring factions. Apparently enough, Americans assumed that even the costs and heartbreak of this persistence paled in consideration of the dangers to both the security of the region, and our own security, incurred by a sudden flight and American defeat in the face of victorious Islamic insurgents and al Qaeda terrorists.

So we stayed, and we learned, and we persevered. Classical arguments for victory prevailed, despite being caricatured and deemed simplistic: whatever transient emotional, financial, and moral advantages were to be had by fleeing Iraq, they would all be overshadowed by the eventual human and financial costs of our utter defeat.

AGAINST THE WAR
There was little opposition to the war when it began, at least if public polls and congressional authorizations were fair indicators. But by 2004, as more American lives were lost to insurrection, and Iraqis began to suffer sectarian violence, the war insidiously lost support among the American people. The new prevailing sentiment is best collectively summed up as “My brilliant three-week war was ruined by your insanely stupid occupation”.

Politicians who had adamantly railed about the dangers of weapons of mass destruction and the need not only to remove Saddam, but to stay and help the Iraqis, now either denied they had done so, or suggested they had been misled by cooked intelligence. Or, in rarer cases, they admitted that their good idea of removing Saddam was now more than nullified by the incompetence or nefariousness of the Bush administration.

It was more common here at home to hear defamation of our allied Iraqi democrats, than of the enemy al-Qaeda terrorists and insurrectionists who tried to murder them. While there was no doubt that exaggerated claims of WMD and connections to al Qaeda in Iraq had contributed to the anti-war surge, it is also a fact such opposition was fueled largely by the impression of ongoing American stasis or defeat in Iraq.

Four national American elections heightened the acrimony. Each witnessed a gradual evolution from public support to disavowal. The 2002 voting during the lead up to the war saw affirmation for the notion of removing Saddam. 2004 witnessed a nation split over the costs versus benefits of staying in Iraq. 2006 reflected a radical shift against the war. The verdict is out on 2008, though it appears the surge has prompted many critics to once again adjust positions.

The level of vituperation was only matched in the American Civil War and during the Vietnam War. At various times our troops were denigrated by U.S. Senators and Congressmen as terrorists, cold-blooded killers, ethnic cleansers, and analogous to the soldiers of Hitler, Pol Pot, Saddam, or Stalin. Novels, documentaries, movies, ads, and celebrity interviews charged our generals with treason, our elected officials with Nazi-like characteristics, and urged defeat, impeachment, and trials as correctives.

THE TURNAROUND
There is no longer serious doubt that by any fair measure the situation in Iraq has radically improved by the end of 2007. All markers point to some degree of improvement — fewer civilian and military lives lost, violence lessened, essential services improving. It is difficult to know exactly why and how this change came about, as it is so often hard in military history to chart exactly when and why such frequent turnabouts occur.
Tens of thousands of now mostly unknown American soldiers took a frightful toll on insurgents and terrorists between 2003-2007, to such an extent that many enemy groups were increasingly incapable of continuing.

Gen. David Petraeus and his staff were able to convince the administration to surge 30,000 additional troops to tip the strategic balance, so that the American military might have the necessary force to ensure everyday Iraqis better security.

Petraeus was also able to change our military strategy from one of counterterrorism to a broader counterinsurgency plan that was far more successful in enlisting Iraqis to fight the common enemy.

The enormous surge in oil prices, which peaked at $98 a barrel, ensured revenue for infrastructure and services, and of equal importance, a promise of a better future on the horizon.

Al-Qaeda upped the ante by sending its operatives into Iraq, gradually alienated the population by its atrocities, and thereby pushed Sunni tribesmen into a de facto alliance with the U.S. military. The fear of Iran, and the Shiite-dominated government convinced the Sunni tribes that they would only lose more influence should they continue their resistance.

The result is not just that Iraq is quieter and has a good chance to stabilize, but also that the violent alternatives to such a resolution have mostly been attempted and failed. We are witnessing, then, a sort of catharsis of worn-out citizenry who attest by experience that armed force will not result in victory, while political participation and petroleum wealth may get them some of the prestige, power, and money that they had previously sought unsuccessfully through arms.

THE VERDICT?
The final verdict on Iraq will hinge on its outcome — whether the elected government ensures stability, safety, and prosperity to the majority of Iraqis without resort to either theocracy or dictatorship. Even in the event of a positive outcome (an American victory), however, critics will still insist that such results were not worth the commensurate cost in American lives and money. They will also argue that whatever good comes of Iraq is largely nullified by the prewar exaggerated claims for al Qaeda and WMD in Iraq.

Supporters, in turn, will counter that the worst and most dangerous state in the Middle East now has the possibility of becoming the best. Islamic radicalism in its abhorrent manifestations suffered a terrible defeat in Iraq, its frontline fighters killed en masse, its agendas rejected freely by Arab peoples, and its overall prestige lowered in the Islamic world — with beneficial repercussions from Libya to Lebanon.

The question of oil and the war is largely forgotten. Critics once chanted “no blood for oil,” but they quieted when the price shot up and the Iraqis themselves profited enormously from it. Supporters of the war did not wish to prove that cheap, accessible oil was not the main reason to go to war by the painful reminder that its price is now disastrously high and imperils the economy of the United States.

LESSONS FROM IRAQ — THE MORE THINGS CHANGE, THE MORE THEY REMAIN THE SAME
Prior to 2003, and in the wake of Panama, the Balkans, and Afghanistan, there was a strange orthodoxy that the future of American arms rested almost exclusively in precision weapons and smaller, specialized forces.

Iraq taught us the opposite: conventional infantry forces in number, and equipped and led in innovative fashion, still remained indispensable. Force protection — from MRAP vehicles to the use of drones — will be as increasingly emphasized as its enormous costs are debated. A $100,000 wheeled robot used to destroy a $10 IED is emblematic of the dilemma.

Our military is too small for our assumed current geopolitical responsibilities. Either increase the former or cut back on the latter — or, better yet, do both.

It is not just lives lost that govern popular support, but also the length of hostilities. Had the American military lost 4,000 soldiers in a dramatic shoot-out around Baghdad in April 2003, followed by a peaceful occupation, public support would have remained high.

But for an impatient American public, it was the duration, and sense of war without end or victory that provoked the oppostion. War in our present century will have to be conducted far more quickly — even as we learn that is often impossible, given that human nature is unchanged and thus comes to wisdom very slowly.

For all our sophisticated media and nuanced politics, simply winning or losing still shapes views on war. There have been three radical positions on Iraq: a general support when it looked won; a general opposition went it looked lost; and a slow return to grudging reappraisal when it looks re-won. Politicians, academics, and pundits are hardly immune from, or embarrassed by, their own contorted reactions to these primordial emotions, as we now witness as columnists and politicians scramble to stake out new third positions sort of, kind of supporting the war..

The felony of untruth and distortion against a war counts far less than any misdemeanor in support of one. Photoshopped pictures, fraudulent documentaries, printed lies about flushed Korans, or bogus published stories about atrocities turn off the public less than a single untruth or hedge by a military officer or government official.

While the success of a war hinges on the military’s destruction of the enemy and our ability to win the hearts and minds of the population, critical time and support for those efforts are won only by non-stop explication, not periodic assertion.

In an age of glitzy graphics, e-mail, instantaneous blogs, and minute-by-minute news updates, there is still no substitute for wartime oratory and brutal candor. We should assume in any future war, those in the media, the universities, and the arts will ipso facto oppose the use of force, which in turn can only be supported by arguments that are as moral and ethical as they are logically, honestly, and elegantly presented.

— Victor Davis Hanson is a military historian and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. His website is victorhanson.com.

The bottom line is that without Victory in Afghanistan, the next major terrorist attack will be nuclear in nature. And then we’ll be playing Cowboys and Indians with Muslims and nuclear weapons. Rational Americans intend to win that fight as soon as it rears its head, without further American bloodshed. And we don’t care how many of the enemy are incinerated as a result of that mistake on their part.

Subsunk

Subsunk on November 24, 2009 at 2:15 PM

The bottom line is that without Victory in Afghanistan, the next major terrorist attack will be nuclear in nature. And then we’ll be playing Cowboys and Indians with Muslims and nuclear weapons. Rational Americans intend to win that fight as soon as it rears its head, without further American bloodshed. And we don’t care how many of the enemy (and ‘collateral damage’) are incinerated as a result of that mistake on their part.

Subsunk

Subsunk on November 24, 2009 at 2:15 PM

First of all, define ‘victory’ in Afghanistan. We already kicked the snot out of their pathetic little military and occupied every city worth mentioning. But merely occupying dirt is fruitless in that region unless you have every square foot under 24/7 military surveillance. We face an enemy who is perfectly willing and able to melt away and appear somewhere else, and there will always be ‘somewhere else’.

Second of all, nukes and the facilities to make them are a hell of a lot easier to squash…if we have the courage to do so. Nailing every raghead with an AK-47? Good luck with that. Nailing centrifuges and rogue nuke experts? Doable.

Short of some kind of mass mind-control device, we will NEVER eradicate Islam until the Almighty comes riding down to set earth right. What we CAN do is splat concentrations of the armed fighters/spies/etc. and make it abundantly clear that even associating with them guarantees a very short lifespan.

Dark-Star on November 24, 2009 at 2:23 PM

First of all, define ‘victory’ in Afghanistan. We already kicked the snot out of their pathetic little military and occupied every city worth mentioning. But merely occupying dirt is fruitless in that region unless you have every square foot under 24/7 military surveillance. We face an enemy who is perfectly willing and able to melt away and appear somewhere else, and there will always be ’somewhere else’.

Second of all, nukes and the facilities to make them are a hell of a lot easier to squash…if we have the courage to do so. Nailing every raghead with an AK-47? Good luck with that. Nailing centrifuges and rogue nuke experts? Doable.

Short of some kind of mass mind-control device, we will NEVER eradicate Islam until the Almighty comes riding down to set earth right. What we CAN do is splat concentrations of the armed fighters/spies/etc. and make it abundantly clear that even associating with them guarantees a very short lifespan.

Dark-Star on November 24, 2009 at 2:23 PM

Dude,

Don’t you remember the Cold War? When supposedly “one wrong move” by the US or Soviets would have brought total global thermonuclear war down on all of our heads and eliminated all life on Earth? Or so it was presented by the Federation of American Scietnists, Greenpeace, the Red Brigades, and every liberal newspaper and tv personality in the country?

You misunderstand my meaning. If one nuclear weapon is detonated inside a US city by terrorists, I can guarantee that the country will demand complete and utter destruction of every Muslim country on the Earth. It is amazing how the death of 4 million Americans in a flash will panic and enrage the sleeping US giant. We will not go quietly into the night, I can assure you.

Thus every nuclear weapon we possess will be aimed and many of them used immediately to eliminate Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, and all the Emirates in the Gulf as a source of radical Islam. The nukes any terrorist gains possession of will not come from covert private facilities, but from Pakistani, Iranian, Saudi or Syrian labs. And each of those countries will have to die, or those who survive and call themselves Muslim will perpetuate the same again and again upon the West.

As I said, you may disagree with me that this would be possible from the American Government. But I know the psyche of the American people very well. 9-11 gave me a perfect example of the panic and terror and blind demand to survive at all costs, of the human animal. And global thermonuclear war, I know VERY well. You have no clue how swiftly and completely we can bring about the end of the Muslim world.

The only question which remains, is when will they grow to understand the fire they are playing with?

Subsunk

Subsunk on November 24, 2009 at 2:39 PM

Dude,

You misunderstand my meaning. If one nuclear weapon is detonated inside a US city by terrorists, I can guarantee that the country will demand complete and utter destruction of every Muslim country on the Earth. It is amazing how the death of 4 million Americans in a flash will panic and enrage the sleeping US giant. We will not go quietly into the night, I can assure you.

Okay, you’re right, I very much DID misunderstand you.

Dark-Star on November 24, 2009 at 2:43 PM

You misunderstand my meaning. If one nuclear weapon is detonated inside a US city by terrorists, I can guarantee that the country will demand complete and utter destruction of every Muslim country on the Earth. It is amazing how the death of 4 million Americans in a flash will panic and enrage the sleeping US giant. We will not go quietly into the night, I can assure you.

you do realize who the president is right??

wishful thinking…

they won’t need to nuke us, we’re joining them.

right4life on November 24, 2009 at 4:35 PM

He may as well have authorized 39,999 just one short in order to show McChrystal who’s boss and that he won.

Dr. ZhivBlago on November 24, 2009 at 4:39 PM

Obaby thinking to himself…
-
Boy this waiting 6 months to pick a number outta my a** so as to look important sure is tough.

RalphyBoy on November 24, 2009 at 5:14 PM

The new plan contains the “off-ramps” Obama demanded from his national security team. Those begin to arrive as early as June, according to McClatchy, giving the US a few easy outs if Obama chooses to retreat. If the “political side” or the war itself doesn’t improve, Obama apparently wants to get out altogether. In other words, this looks like McChrystal’s last stand.

So he dithered for months to decide on 34,000 instead of 40,000. What a loser. Well, in the end, President Pantywaist has told the world that he is eager to cut-n-run. It shouldn’t surprise anyone that the same president who has bowed before foreign leaders and who has given the 911 war criminals civilian rights will be the guy who loses to the Taliban and AQ. The Democrats really are the party of weakness.

pearson on November 24, 2009 at 5:58 PM

Obama wants to have it both ways. But if and when we do bug out and the Taliban and AlQaida take Afghanistan over again, blaming Bush may not be a viable alternative.

Terrye on November 24, 2009 at 5:59 PM

Greater the fool I

Some libs are scoffing at me. I have been predicting a pull out since His election. He foxed me. As a couple of writers pointed out above, however, this could be a CYA maneuver. I didn’t think of anything like that.

In the 2.3 minutes I watched of Countdown tonight, The One’s deliberation was praised in the extreme. The question is, what was He thinking about? Polls?

IlikedAUH2O on November 24, 2009 at 9:36 PM

What an a-hole. Nickle and diming the Generals and hurting the troops. What a disgusting excuse for a CIC. Can’t make a decision and then screws around with just enough less than requested to make it appear that HE is boss. Total, dirty liar pos. Our troops are in harms way and he sits and politicizes. Scum bag….. Go find someone to bow down to you low life community organizer gangster. I wonder whether he knows how much he is despised???

highninside on November 24, 2009 at 11:02 PM

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