Lieberman on Reid plan: “No”
posted at 1:36 pm on November 24, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Harry Reid may feel the wind at his back for the moment, but it doesn’t blow much past Joe Lieberman. While Reid tries to sell the public option to moderate Democrats like Ben Nelson and Blanche Lincoln to avoid a filibuster, the solidly liberal Lieberman digs in his heels in opposition to it. In fact, he promises to be “stubborn” on the issue:
Sen. Joseph Lieberman, speaking in that trademark sonorous baritone, utters a simple statement that translates into real trouble for Democratic leaders: “I’m going to be stubborn on this.”
Stubborn, he means, in opposing any health-care overhaul that includes a “public option,” or government-run health-insurance plan, as the current bill does. His opposition is strong enough that Mr. Lieberman says he won’t vote to let a bill come to a final vote if a public option is included.
Probe for a catch or caveat in that opposition, and none is visible. Can he support a public option if states could opt out of the plan, as the current bill provides? “The answer is no,” he says in an interview from his Senate office. “I feel very strongly about this.” How about a trigger, a mechanism for including a public option along with a provision saying it won’t be used unless private insurance plans aren’t spreading coverage far and fast enough? No again.
So any version of a public option will compel Mr. Lieberman to vote against bringing a bill to a final vote? “Correct,” he says.
This is, of course, more than just one senator objecting to one part of health legislation. This is the former Democratic vice presidential nominee, now an independent, Joe Lieberman, still counted on to be the 60th vote Democrats will need to force a final vote on health legislation. In opposing a public option, he is opposing the element some Democratic liberals have come to consider the cornerstone of a health-care bill.
In fact, it’s a little bit more than even that. It will be difficult for red-state moderates up for re-election in 2010 to vote for the bill while a man who was on the Democratic Party’s national ticket remains “stubborn” against it. A vote by Blanche Lincoln, Ben Nelson, or Byron Dorgan to clear the bill for a final floor vote while Lieberman supports a filibuster will not go unnoticed by their conservative constituencies.
Why is Lieberman remaining stubborn? He told the Wall Street Journal that “we have to start saying no to some things like this,” with deficits skyrocketing and government spending out of control. Lieberman would support an incremental approach rather than the overhaul Reid proposes, and especially something without a new government entitlement.
Unfortunately for Reid, his progressives have also dug in their heels. They will not support a bill without a public option, which means Reid has a lot of tapdancing to do to get this bill past a cloture vote. He either needs to reach across the aisle to secure Republican votes — which would mean a large-scale rewriting of the bill — or attempt to whip his caucus hard to get his vote. And Lieberman’s opposition will make that all but impossible.
This is not over by a long shot.










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Please, Please for the love of all things holy, let the bill be killed.
nyx on November 24, 2009 at 1:39 PM
with or without public option
nyx on November 24, 2009 at 1:39 PM
I’ll go even further. Any Democrat that votes to support a Republican filibuster, I’ll donate to their campaign.
Yes, I think stopping this garbage is that important.
Red Cloud on November 24, 2009 at 1:39 PM
I feel a lot of pessimism about this. The Dems are insanely intent on completing this kamikaze mission, and they’re going to take down the rest of us with them.
Cicero43 on November 24, 2009 at 1:40 PM
Ed, your rose-colored glasses are on again. Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe (and possibly Graham) will vote for it.
SouthernGent on November 24, 2009 at 1:41 PM
You could have killed the bill Saturday night, STUPID.
HornetSting on November 24, 2009 at 1:41 PM
He is deadly serious. He knows if he votes for this he will not get re-elected here in CT. Don’t believe all the CNN poll hype, a majority in CT do not want this to pass. Dodd will vote for it as he already knows he is gone.
Johnnyreb on November 24, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Stay firm, Joe.
1921 C DRUM on November 24, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Seems to me the “moderate” Dems would vote for cloture in order to allow “an honest discussion of the issues” and then vote no on the final bill. So they enable its passing by a vote of, say, 53-47, while they tell their constituents that they voted no on the “irresponsibly expensive and expansive” Pelosi-Reid bill. Win-win for the leftwingers and lose-lose for everyone else. I am not optimistic.
jwolf on November 24, 2009 at 1:42 PM
I agree. I’ll take you up on it too…
…but for the moment I can’t think of anyone. They all voted to open debate :(
Chaz706 on November 24, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Joe.Mentum.
Of course, like always…I will believe the words when they are followed by the corresponding ACTION.
search4truth on November 24, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Surely you jest. Has anyone forgotten “history calls” “public trigger” Snowe and her equally treasonous Maine sibling Collins?
elduende on November 24, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Can someone disconnect History’s phone service for the next few months so it cannot make any calls?
WashJeff on November 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM
But they still agree with 8 out of the 10 “purity test.”
deidre on November 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM
That vote was meaningless to me. As long as they can filibuster the final vote, which seems likely, it’s completely meaningless.
Supporting THAT filibuster is what’s important. If Blanche Lincoln refuses to support this crap, she deserves our support for doing so. As Metallica said – nothing else matters.
Red Cloud on November 24, 2009 at 1:45 PM
And so Lieberman becomes a member of the “Party of No”.
Welcome aboard, Joe!
Dominion on November 24, 2009 at 1:45 PM
Joe should of killed it the other day and had them start over from scratch. I don’t believe any of them in Washington.
Brat4life on November 24, 2009 at 1:46 PM
But what about Lincoln, Landrieu, Nelson, Bennet, and Bayh? More than a handful of Democrat senators will have to be willing to walk the plank in order for this to pass? Are they really willing to give up their careers for this?
Doughboy on November 24, 2009 at 1:46 PM
I don’t trust Lieberman. He could have killed the bill when it matter (this saturday). All this whining about the public option does not make him moderate, let alone conservative. It is foolish for the GOP to depend on Lieberman to defeat this bill. What the GOP absolutely needs to do is to get Olympia Snowe and Collins locked deep somewhere in someone’s basement so that they cannot vote for this boondangle. This bill needs to be killed somehow and I don’t care how it happens. That means the GOP has to be smart for once.
nyx on November 24, 2009 at 1:46 PM
Hey! A Democrat sighting!
What has happened to the party of JFK?
Good Lt on November 24, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Lieberman could be the man that saves what’s left of the republic. For four seconds before Snowe drops to her knees.
LibTired on November 24, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Then why do Lincoln, Lieberman and Nelson vote to advance the bill. I don’t understand it. We know that ho in Louisiana sold out.
rjoco1 on November 24, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I like Joe, but I’ll believe it when I see his no vote. I don’t trust any of them.
yoda on November 24, 2009 at 1:48 PM
No camels-nose-under-the-tent option!!! NO! NO! NO!!!!
RBMN on November 24, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Joe Lieberman is our Obi-Wan Kenobi – our only hope.
outOfElement on November 24, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Joe Lieberman is breaking wind in Harry Reid’s direction.
Bruno Strozek on November 24, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I wished I could believe, and rely on this. Wasn’t it possible to kill this, on the vote for opening debate? Had Lieberman, Nelson, Lincoln, Landreau, and a few more voted against opening this for debate, it would have been dead by now. So why they voted the way they did, is anyone’s guess. I’m tired of hearing one thing, and getting another. I’m tired of hoping, only to be let down.
I’ll continue to fight, and rail against this crap, but I’m tired of hearing things they know we want, or need to hear, only to get burned in the end.
capejasmine on November 24, 2009 at 1:50 PM
In Blanche Lincoln case yes. I’m sure she has struck a deal that if they are unable to secure 60 votes without her she will vote for the final bill, if they get a few Repubs she will get to vote no.
My guess is she has been promised some job at a lib think tank or foundation is she is defeated in 2010.
kangjie on November 24, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Well, then.
Break like the wind, Joe!
Good Lt on November 24, 2009 at 1:50 PM
I’ll take Lost Causes for $1000, Alex.
Cicero43 on November 24, 2009 at 1:51 PM
I’ll see you and raise you by contributing to the opponents of any red/purple state Dem — and any RINO at all — who votes to end the fillibuster.
TXUS on November 24, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Over to you, Olympia!
Loxodonta on November 24, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Well, Joe seems serious. I wasn’t sure if he was or not, so this looks like good news.
Are Repubs united in opposition? Do we have any indication that one of them might cancel out Lieberman’s no vote?
Missy on November 24, 2009 at 1:55 PM
After he supported opening it up to debate, I have a feeling he has a price that just hasn’t been met yet. All the other squishes are just waiting for their price to be met. Not much optimism left here.
fourdeucer on November 24, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Oops…hit submit too soon I see…
Missy on November 24, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Hang in there, Joe, and be as stubborn as you say.
I voted for Lieberman in 2006 (because of his stance on Iraq, and the Republican was hopeless) after voting against him TWICE in 2000 (it was legal in Connecticut that year).
Pass the nutmeg, and keep the spice in the Senate.
Steve Z on November 24, 2009 at 1:56 PM
By voting for cloture the shut down the possability of a filibuster. Folks this thing is going to pass, with or without a super majority. It could even go 51 to 49, and then all these moderate dems can say the voted against it. Remember it is nothing more than a power grab by the leftist, with the compliance of the “moderate” allies in both parties. They gain power over our pocketbooks and lives and we pay for like the good troglydites they know us to be.
georgeofthedesert on November 24, 2009 at 1:57 PM
Despite my near unanimous policy disagreements with Lieberman, he is one of the few politicians I actually respect. He’s honorable, takes a stance and holds firm on them, much like W.
Rogue on November 24, 2009 at 1:59 PM
No reason it ever had to come this far.
Crooks. Liars. Thieves.
ALL of them.
This will end badly.
Badger40 on November 24, 2009 at 1:59 PM
I keep hearing people say that. Do you really think these senators are content working for some liberal thinktank as opposed to being in the U.S. Congress? That looks like a major step down IMO.
Doughboy on November 24, 2009 at 2:00 PM
You’ve won the obvious prize.
And why does no one else see it?
I have no optimism for politicians- only in the tea party movement.
Badger40 on November 24, 2009 at 2:00 PM
If this bill gets shot to hell and global warming finally exposed for the hoax that it is… Gosh… that will be my Christmas present.
Oink on November 24, 2009 at 2:01 PM
I just don’t see Joe Leiberman in hooker heels,
but, Landreiu worked it for $300 million……
HornetSting on November 24, 2009 at 2:01 PM
There has to be another 60-count cloture vote to end debate and actually vote on this monstrosity.
INC on November 24, 2009 at 2:02 PM
A lot of insurance companies are based in CT.
MarkTheGreat on November 24, 2009 at 2:02 PM
Ahhh the king of all opportunist snakes speaks.
I cannot believe people keep electing this spineless jacka$$.
He is one of your worst politicians in history.
Dave Rywall on November 24, 2009 at 2:05 PM
I have a hard time giving Joe grief over voting for cloture to bring it to a Senate vote after all the handwringing we conservatives did over such things as Bush’s judicial nominees and the like.
On the one hand, turn their tactics back on them. On the other, stick to principle.
In any case…kill this piece of crap.
Texas74 on November 24, 2009 at 2:05 PM
Err…the health care bill, of course. I’m not one of THOSE wingnuts.
Texas74 on November 24, 2009 at 2:05 PM
Last Saturday’s vote was to OPEN the debate, not close it. Blanche Lincoln, for one, said she was willing to debate health care reform, but not vote for cloture on the public option. Since she’s up for re-election in 2010, Arkansans should start melting her phone VERY soon.
As for last Saturday’s vote, not a single Republican (not even Maine’s Plain Janes) even voted to OPEN debate. NOW is the time to kill this bill.
Steve Z on November 24, 2009 at 2:06 PM
From Zogby phone poll:
Both Republican Senators from Maine hold high favorability rates among Democrats, Republicans and Independents. Senator Olympia Snowe currently holds an 84% favorability rating with 15% viewing her unfavorably. Senator Susan Collins holds a 77% favorability rating with 22% viewing her unfavorably.
SouthernGent on November 24, 2009 at 2:06 PM
A$$phincter says what?
We care what a Canadian says of our govt process because….?
Badger40 on November 24, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Over? This is just getting started.
ThackerAgency on November 24, 2009 at 2:10 PM
You mean like Mao, Lenin, Hitler? Why don’t you just admit it, you are gonna play the “dirty Jew” card soon too. After all, anti-semites like you live for this kinda stuff right? You know, blaming Jews for failed socialist policies. Hope you choke on a turkey bone this Thanksgiving, a–hole.
Andy in Agoura Hills on November 24, 2009 at 2:10 PM
No, they are not willing to end their careers but they are counting on the media to cover for them and voter ignorance to carry them to victory again.
elduende on November 24, 2009 at 2:11 PM
MORE POPCORN!
GarandFan on November 24, 2009 at 2:11 PM
….And, in other news, 15-22% of Maine residents are not ignorant.
HornetSting on November 24, 2009 at 2:13 PM
Don’t believe this for a second, Ed. His chairmanship will mean more to him than this law. Reid can gut him anytime he wants to.
E9RET on November 24, 2009 at 2:13 PM
My displeasure is with Evan Bayh. I visited his office back on the 14th and his spokesman assured the group I was with that he would not vote for this bill if it included a public option.
I attempted to call his office(s) all day last Friday and it was obvious that all of his offices had taken the phone off of the hook: solid busy signal.
This *man* is an outrage, a poor excuse for a man. this idiot was born to politics and has never held a real job. I’ll be working my a$$ off to ensure he is not reelected in 2010.
and just fyi: if this crap passes, this family will not pay income tax to support this Maexist regime.
Onager on November 24, 2009 at 2:14 PM
It will pass. All this coyness is just to establish leverage and cover.
a capella on November 24, 2009 at 2:16 PM
Do Candians have a turkey day?
Perhaps they do, only escargo is the main meat.
Badger40 on November 24, 2009 at 2:16 PM
They cannot be this tone deaf. The tea parties, the townhalls, the DC protests, the VA and NJ election results, the FoxNews ratings, the sinking Congressional and Presidential poll numbers, the deficits, the rising unemployment rate. At least some of these things have to be registering with these clowns.
Doughboy on November 24, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Hence, Obama.
Badger40 on November 24, 2009 at 2:17 PM
I hope Joe will stand his ground and remember what the DNC did to him.
bluegrass on November 24, 2009 at 2:17 PM
I like that better.
+100, a capella.
HornetSting on November 24, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Republicans need to remember that whenever a democrat reaches across the aisle his hand will have razor blades in it.
faol on November 24, 2009 at 2:18 PM
Dave Rywall on November 24, 2009 at 2:05 PM
A$$phincter says what?
We care what a Canadian says of our govt process because….?
Badger40 on November 24, 2009 at 2:08 PM
——
Ah, ignorant tiny minded American only speaks with Americans.
USA USA USA USA
Dave Rywall on November 24, 2009 at 2:18 PM
I hear yellow bellied chickensh*t will be served at Drywall’s basement bash this year.
HornetSting on November 24, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Something will pass. It will be ugly and terribly ineffective for doing what the libs say they are trying to do, but something will pass. It will increase our astronomical debt load and further push the country away from being a world power.
matthew26 on November 24, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Does that mean changing the name from Universal Health Care to health care reform to health insurance reform or some other equally ominous name for the same outcome?
fourdeucer on November 24, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Ahhh the king of all opportunist snakes speaks.
I cannot believe people keep electing this spineless jacka$$.
He is one of your worst politicians in history.
Dave Rywall on November 24, 2009 at 2:05 PM
You mean like Mao, Lenin, Hitler? Why don’t you just admit it, you are gonna play the “dirty Jew” card soon too. After all, anti-semites like you live for this kinda stuff right? You know, blaming Jews for failed socialist policies. Hope you choke on a turkey bone this Thanksgiving, a–hole.
Andy in Agoura Hills on November 24, 2009 at 2:10 PM
———
Lieberman is an a**hole.
I could give a f*ck what magical deity he worships.
What a retarded strawman you just built there.
Shove it up your Agoura Hills.
Dave Rywall on November 24, 2009 at 2:20 PM
Sell? I think the word you mean is bribe. Nelson, Lincoln, Snowe….. Mary Landrieu’s bribe opened the door so that Reid is going have to pay far more individuals for their votes than had he attempted to let the bill rise or fall on the merits of the legislation.
highhopes on November 24, 2009 at 2:20 PM
Let them debate it. Anyone see Dick Morris on Hannity last night? Very insightful argument he put up about the states getting hammered when they have to raise their Medicaid funding.
Both the House and the Senate bills require that states cover a larger percentage of their people under Medicaid – a joint state and federally funded program. The idea was to force the state to raise their taxes to cover a big part of the health care bill for treating poor people. Since the Feds can simply charge any increase in spending to their already overdrawn bank account, but the states have to balance their budgets, the increased state spending for Medicaid will cause sharp increases in state taxes. And the Governors will get the blame, not Obama and not the Congress.
A bloodbath in 2010 for governors too if this thing passes?
Knucklehead on November 24, 2009 at 2:21 PM
I can’t believe how stupid it is to even think about passing anything but a bill that would create jobs at this point. That should be this administration’s #1 priority. People need to get back to work and they don’t want unemployment checks to keep getting expanded. They want jobs. And here they are, these idiots we elected to office, ignoring the most important issue in our nation. I read the Ariana Huffington article and for the first time in my life I agree with that woman 200%…unemployment is Obama’s Katrina. People may forgive him for not passing (ramming) a health care bill, but they’re not going to forget joblessness. Where are your priorities, Mr. President? Seen your approval ratings today? Good Lord, someone shake that man.
scalleywag on November 24, 2009 at 2:22 PM
I think Drywall has FINALLY jumped the shark.
Keep talking, Canada Dry.
HornetSting on November 24, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Drywall is nothing but a foul-mouthed troll. Ignore. He’ll go away.
Red Cloud on November 24, 2009 at 2:23 PM
SouthernGent on November 24, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Yep, the time to say “no” was last weekend – to even keep this monstrosity from going this far.
All the Dems need in one waffly RINO – they’ll get one or two.
catmman on November 24, 2009 at 2:25 PM
Why, he’s so solidly liberal that he opposes the Democrats at every turn and endorsed the Republican in the last presidential election, nearly joining the ticket with him.
Boy, he sure is liberal!
orange on November 24, 2009 at 2:25 PM
Apparently, yes, they can.
scalleywag on November 24, 2009 at 2:25 PM
Of course, come to think of it… around here you probably consider John McCain to be solidly liberal as well.
orange on November 24, 2009 at 2:26 PM
If these so-called Blue Dog Dems break with the “Party,” retribution will be stiff. They will instantly become pariahs, which means no dough from the DNC, no support from other libs on campaigns or future legislation, nada. Leiberman knew all this when he supported McCain, but he also wasn’t worried about a tough reelection challenge at that time. Finally, as elduende stated, they’re counting on voter forgetfulness and apathy, the MSM spin, and Team Barry love to help them win.
anXdem on November 24, 2009 at 2:27 PM
That is what the left has been doing for the last fifty years. Now, they are not afraid to lift their veil and expose the face of communism.
Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 2:27 PM
The NEXT cloture vote — to end debate on the bill — is the bottleneck. Absent 60 votes to invoke cloture and end debate, there will be no vote to pass the bill in the Senate. We cannot afford any leakage on this, so it’s time to call, write, fax Senators to let them know this bill must be killed.
ya2daup on November 24, 2009 at 2:29 PM
You have got liberal and communist/socialist confused.
Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 2:30 PM
You are correct.
I am only interested in what Americans have to say about American politics.
You’re just jealous that Canada is irrelevant.
If I lived there, I’d feel irrelevant, too.
Luckily, not all of the Candians I’ve ever met are such d-bags.
Badger40 on November 24, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Exactly. This is the most important Senate filibuster in decades, and my support won’t be drawn along party lines, it’ll be drawn along filibuster lines. If you’re a Republican and you don’t support the filibuster, your Democrat opponent will get supported. If you’re a Democrat and you support the filibuster, I will support you.
Red Cloud on November 24, 2009 at 2:31 PM
So, do you like your socialism?
Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 2:32 PM
but will he fit in the oven?
Badger40 on November 24, 2009 at 2:32 PM
He must not have ever had to really go without.
Those who do not know true freedom do not miss it.
Badger40 on November 24, 2009 at 2:33 PM
As to the issue of Lieberman’s chairmanship, since he is the Democrats’ sixtieth vote, (and is also officially an independent since the party bailed on him) He is not without leverage. He could threaten to flip to caucusing with the GOP if Harry tries anything funny.
Liebs is the only Dem I trust even a little bit. I’m much more worried about Susan and Olympia getting a call from history. I hope Kyl has the whip oiled up!
Steve H in AZ on November 24, 2009 at 2:35 PM
These I agree with. While it would have been sweet to this monstrosity go down in flames and totally embarrass Reid in the process last Saturday, that was just the opening gambit. By voting “yes” on Saturday, the moderate/conservative Dems look to their constituents like they are willing to debate the issues. Then, after the debate/amendment time, they can vote “no” and say to their constituents “See? You didn’t like the bill and I didn’t like the bill, but I was willing to debate the issues. But the “hard left” Democrats didn’t want to listen to what we had to say, so I had to vote “no” against it in the end.” That could possibly work for them to help save their jobs; it may be the only slim chance they have. Not that I want them to continue in office…get them out and MORE conservatives in! :-D
Highlar on November 24, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Have you noticed that it is usually the well off who want to force the servitude of communism/socialism on the proletariat?
Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 2:46 PM
No, the other 15-22% of us live out of state and vote absentee.
joe_doufu on November 24, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Dave Rywall on November 24, 2009 at 2:18 PM
So, do you like your socialism?
Johan Klaus on November 24, 2009 at 2:32 PM
—–
Love it.
At least I know what the word means in 2009.
Dave Rywall on November 24, 2009 at 2:52 PM
So the 2008 election was a race between a liberal candidate and a communist/socialist candidate? Good to know.
orange on November 24, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Do Candians have a turkey day?
Perhaps they do, only escargo is the main meat.
Badger40 on November 24, 2009 at 2:16 PM
Silly Badger, thats only in the east. LOL
LSUMama on November 24, 2009 at 2:57 PM
Do Candians have a turkey day?
Perhaps they do, only escargo is the main meat.
Badger40 on November 24, 2009 at 2:16 PM
Silly Badger, thats only in the east. LOL
LSUMama on November 24, 2009 at 2:57 PM
——
If you knew anything at all about anything outside your borders, you would know the answer.
Dave Rywall on November 24, 2009 at 3:01 PM
They’re getting the message alright – that’s why your hearing more and more about “jobs summits” and Stimulus 2 and all of the other meaningless nonsense that Obama and his crew keep spewing. If the UE report on 12/4 (and more so for the report on 1/10) ticks us up even further, then there will be enormous pressure on Congress to switch they’re focus from NHC to getting the economy rolling, or at the very least to stop destroying it. All of this talk about not caring if they lose their seat is nonsense. If they were 100% kamikaze, they’d have voted this in already. Time is on our side folks, each and every amendment must be approved by a 60 vote margin so if the Repubs were smart, they’d parse every word and tweak every sentence in this so as to bring to light what’s really in this beast. It’s telling that Lawrence O’Donnell (hardly a conservative shill) said just yesterday that with a bill this size, it should take a minimum of 3-4 mos. (!) to complete the amendment process. Don’t forget, the Senate is designed so that legislative process is forced to slow down – which works to our advantage. Finally, for all of the “this will pass” blather, save Reid’s 58 assured votes, he has little on his side; not public opinion, not a popular president and not a popular party. Like Dick Morris said last night, they have to be right every time and win every vote going forward while it only takes one time (or vote) to kill it. This is no slam dunk.
volnation on November 24, 2009 at 3:03 PM
So, hmm. If they don’t get their 60 votes then the debate never ends and we can rejoice because the Senate will stop passing new laws!
WitchDoctor on November 24, 2009 at 3:05 PM
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