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Poll: Dems will lose votes next year if ObamaCare passes — or if it doesn’t

posted at 7:34 pm on November 23, 2009 by Allahpundit
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Catch-22.

The political repercussions for Congressional Democrats of not passing a health care bill could be severe. Our newest national survey finds that Democrats lead 46-38 on the generic Congressional ballot. But asked how they would vote if no health care bill is passed respondents split 40-40 between saying they would vote Democratic or Republican in next year’s election.

In some sense the Democrats may be in a damned if you don’t or damned if you do position on health care. Asked how they would vote for Congress next year if a health care bill with a public option is passed respondents said they would go Democratic by a 46-41 margin, still more narrow than before any hypotheticals about health care outcomes were introduced into the questions…

There is a price to pay with independents if a strong health care bill is passed. Democrats lead 37-30 with them in general on the generic ballot, but they say they’ll vote 44-37 for the GOP if a bill with a public option makes it through. Clearly some independents are sitting on the fence waiting to see what happens with health care before they decide how to vote next year and Democrats could push them toward the Republican side by passing a bill without bipartisan support.

No surprise, really, on any of those numbers. If they pass a crappy bill, independents will turn on them (44/37 among indies is trainwreck territory for the Democrats), but if they pass nothing, their base will have a conniption and stay home. Rich Lowry anticipated the conundrum in his column today: By investing so much time and political capital in what they refuse to recognize is an unpopular bill, the Dems are now damned if they do and damned if they don’t. But since they’re more damned if they don’t, isn’t the logical solution to the problem in Congress to pass the “half a loaf” bill that Lowry suggests by stripping out the public option and caving on abortion funding? House liberals are the sticking point, but as this drags into next year — no need to rush! — and the prospects of a GOP wave loom larger, the choice for progressives will become either passing whatever’s feasible or passing nothing and handing control of the House to Republicans in November. At the rate The One’s numbers are sinking, they should be seeing the light at any time now.

In very much related and important news, a Blue Dog who’s held a red seat for the past 12 years has suddenly decided now might be a good time to retire. Quote: “Moore, who won his last race 56 to 40 percent over Jordan, was in trouble because of his support for many of President Barack Obama’s initiatives, including the stimulus package and health care reform.” Meanwhile, in North Dakota, longtime incumbent Byron Dorgan trails the state’s Republican governor in a hypothetical match-up … by 20 points. Exit question: In this awful political climate, where they’re already handicapped, will Democrats really be so stupid as to wage war on each other? As a certain bestselling author might say: You betcha.


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The lesson: They shouldn’t have bothered to try it, though it will be a lesson lost on them.

Sharr on November 23, 2009 at 7:37 PM

I can’t believe what he’s done in Afghanistan. Where are all his advisers? Colin Powell, you voted for it, what now?

Punditpawn on November 23, 2009 at 7:38 PM

They dont care, short term they’ll lose some votes no matter what. Long term if this passes it’s a huge edge for them going forward.

Dash on November 23, 2009 at 7:39 PM

They want to save their necks? Trash their bill and pass the GOP version. Looking silly won’t cost them nearly as many votes as doing “stupid is as stupid does”.

michaelo on November 23, 2009 at 7:39 PM

They dont care, short term they’ll lose some votes no matter what. Long term if this passes it’s a huge edge for them going forward.

Dash on November 23, 2009 at 7:39 PM

…My thoughts exactly.

Daddy-O on November 23, 2009 at 7:39 PM

You don’t say.

DaveS on November 23, 2009 at 7:39 PM

That’s what happens when you overreach. They’ve now bypassed their lead formation and exposed their flanks, it’ll be like fish n’ a barrel next year. Hell, I could run next year after campaignin’ for two weeks and win.

“I used to just criticize them thar’ Congressfolks and now I are one….!”

ted c on November 23, 2009 at 7:40 PM

Punt, bitches.

Doorgunner on November 23, 2009 at 7:40 PM

The lame duck session after the elections in 2010 will be a very, very dangerous time for our nation. The majority in control now have now shame. No shame whatsoever.

SouthernGent on November 23, 2009 at 7:40 PM

Democrats losing is music to my ears.

fourdeucer on November 23, 2009 at 7:40 PM

Where’s the PPP caveat on this post?

BadgerHawk on November 23, 2009 at 7:43 PM

If Louisiana is any indication, it may be that Democrats will just strap on the old suicide belt vote and let the virgins fall where they may.

Ronnie on November 23, 2009 at 7:44 PM

If the Left had any sense of history, they’d realize that the Europe at whose feet they grovel got its government-run health care in the aftermath of a devastating war and under the protection of the American military umbrella against the Soviets AND in ethnically-homogeneous countries where at least some semblance of “we’re all in this together” could be created. Since exactly ZERO of those conditions apply in the US, it stands to reason that going the European route will always fail.

But, the Left is a bunch of idiots, so I’m not surprised they haven’t noticed this set of facts.

venividivici on November 23, 2009 at 7:44 PM

The energy and money is with the left.

As with bank robbers, politicians follow the money.

They’ll pass a bill even if it’s just handing out aspirins to 12-year olds. Just put “Saving America’s Health” on the bill, invite the photographers, and sign it.

SteveMG on November 23, 2009 at 7:44 PM

They’ll bow (or bend over) to the far left.

They see this as some sort of communist holy grail.

All in.

cntrlfrk on November 23, 2009 at 7:45 PM

When Obama first, at Ayers’ command,
Arose from out the Chicago main,
Arose, arose, arose from out the Chicago main,
This was the charter, the charter of the man,
And guardian media types sang this strain:

Rule Obama!
Power he does crave.
Republicans shaaaaaaaallllll become the slaves.

Rule Obama!
Taxes he does crave.
Taxpayers shaaaaaaallllll become the slaves.

The Nation, not so blest as he,
Must in its turn, to tyrant fall,
Must in ,must in, must in its turn, to tyrant fall,
While Obama shalt flourish, shalt flourish liberal cree,
The dread and fear of them all.

(Chorus)

Rule Obama!
Taxes he does crave.
Taxpayers shaaaaaaaallllll become the slaves.

Rule Obama!
Power he does crave.
Future generations shaaaaaaallllll become the slaves.

Mr. Joe on November 23, 2009 at 7:45 PM

“The next man who moans, will be very sorry…!”

Seven Percent Solution on November 23, 2009 at 7:48 PM

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I like it.
Nothing like watching the dems commit suicide.
Pass the salt.

HornetSting on November 23, 2009 at 7:48 PM

As a certain bestselling author might say: You betcha.

Palin reminds me of that female sheriff from the movie Fargo.

Underestimate (misunderestimate?) her at your political peril.

silverfox on November 23, 2009 at 7:49 PM

Paying for health care for four years and no services is going to create a snowball that will choke the Dems. They own this thing. The next time you wait for weeks for a flu shot, think Democrat.

d1carter on November 23, 2009 at 7:53 PM

I can’t stand Howard Dean but he is right when he says that unless people start getting health care by 2010 than they will get hammered.

lavell12 on November 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM

December. Call your senator every day this December. Melt the phones. Now is when you need to fight. Now is when you can kill the bill. If you have a D senator, call them EVERY day to tell them you don’t want them to vote for this bill.

EVERY DAY. Ask them why they are cutting Medicare.

EVERY DAY.

ThackerAgency on November 23, 2009 at 7:56 PM

The Dems problem, and Obama’s vicariously, is that despite their promises, UE continues to rise and the more they pitch this crap, the more the meme takes hold that they’re out of touch with voters and have misplaced priorities. There’s a couple more UE reports coming before this is over (probably) and if the upward trend continues (just wait until 1Q ‘10) then this thing is dead. It’s easy to say that you’re willing to lose your seat a year out from the polls, but as 11/10 draws nearer, expect to see some Dems have a CTJ moment. They’re not as suicidal as you might think.

volnation on November 23, 2009 at 7:56 PM

The lame duck session after the elections in 2010 will be a very, very dangerous time for our nation. The majority in control now have now shame. No shame whatsoever.

SouthernGent on November 23, 2009 at 7:40 PM

Oh yeah. I’m kind of dreading Cap and Trade getting shoved through the Senate next November.

BadgerHawk on November 23, 2009 at 7:56 PM

Well this is bad news b/c this gives the Dems a reason to vote for it.

lavell12 on November 23, 2009 at 7:57 PM

shweet.

moonbatkiller on November 23, 2009 at 7:57 PM

Actually I think the whole KSM to NY stage show is to take the heat and news off of health care so they can pass it. Health care is the most boring stuff to discuss in history.

If they introduce a new dog and pony show to the media capital of the world, NY, they’ll have to cover it instead of anything else. I would almost put money on this political move. They try them in NY to pass health care with nobody watching.

ThackerAgency on November 23, 2009 at 7:57 PM

You darn right a socialist would sellout one of their own…If it meant on passing liberal policies.

hawkman on November 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM

Palin reminds me of that female sheriff from the movie Fargo.

Underestimate (misunderestimate?) her at your political peril.

silverfox on November 23, 2009 at 7:49 PM

That’s funny…

Key West Reader on November 23, 2009 at 7:59 PM

This seems like a worst case, lose/lose scenario for any of us hoping this debacle can be stopped.

This has to make them push the damn thing through, doesn’t it?

Kensington on November 23, 2009 at 8:00 PM

The ‘rats have an unsuited 2/7 with kings and aces on the board, so they have decided to go all in with the kid’s college money, the pink for the family car and topped with the diamond wedding ring.

Now America gets to decide if they are bluffing or not.

Bishop on November 23, 2009 at 8:01 PM

at the end of this we will a long way toward the European model.

Once everyone has “healthcare” by paying 750 dollars (or less) the unemployment rate will be move toward the Euro model. The Left will demand longer or semi-permanent stipends for the unemployed so we will have average unemployment at 8-10 percent.

The consequences (intended or unintended) will be slow growth and a (the word I love) sclerotic economy and sclerotic government of slackers.

All bought and paid for.

The only question in my mind is: if the US is the engine of the world (consumerism, etc.) what happens to the rest of the world.

China, the EU, etc. Can they lead the world economy?

Of course, this is the best case at this point. If conservative prevail in 2010 the next phase might be postponed.

The next phase is reparations for climate damage and overall just being bad people. After all, as SNL said, why should China bailout the US when so many Chinese don’t have healthcare either.

r keller on November 23, 2009 at 8:02 PM

So that means they will vote it in–they have nothing to lose…

lovingmyUSA on November 23, 2009 at 8:04 PM

ouse liberals are the sticking point, but as this drags into next year — no need to rush! — and the prospects of a GOP wave loom larger, the choice for progressives will become either passing whatever’s feasible or passing nothing and handing control of the House to Republicans in November. At the rate The One’s numbers are sinking, they should be seeing the light at any time now.

The pessimist in me doesn’t quite think they’ll ever see the light.

But how sad it is, that we’ve come to this. Where the best case scenario isn’t to kill this abortion of a bill (thanks to Landrieu and Nelson and the others, that’s not possible), but rather to drag this out until at least next year, where Democrats get nervous about the 2010 midterms and decide to pass a slightly less terrible bill without a public option and / or abortion funding.

It’s immensely depressing.

Vyce on November 23, 2009 at 8:04 PM

I’m actually feeling hopeful this bill will die.

parteagirl on November 23, 2009 at 8:04 PM

I’ve been worried for a long time my Congressman Walt Minnik (a Blue Dog) will cave because he knows he won’t be reelected. He’s fiscally conservative but liberal on everything else. Nancy Pelosi was pressuring him for awhile, but apparently he was defended by other Dems, basically saying “a Democrat from Idaho can vote however he wants.” He voted against PelosiCare, but I’m worried as time goes by the Dems won’t let him get away with anything else.

Emily M. on November 23, 2009 at 8:05 PM

Either way someones screwed…..

FontanaConservative on November 23, 2009 at 8:05 PM

but if they pass nothing, their base will have a conniption and stay home

And let the evil, greedy, vast right wing conspiracy take over? You have got to be kidding me. The liberal base is voting Democrat no matter what. Unless they’re so stoned they forget to.

Loxodonta on November 23, 2009 at 8:07 PM

Their base will never turn on them.

LibTired on November 23, 2009 at 8:09 PM

“[Dennis] Moore, who won his last race 56 to 40 percent over Jordan, was in trouble because of his support for many of President Barack Obama’s initiatives, including the stimulus package and health care reform.”

I think a quote from Monty Python is appropriate here:

Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Galloping through the sward
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
And his horse Concorde
He steals from the rich
And gives to the poor
Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore

Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Riding through the night
Soon every lupin in the land
Will be in his mighty hand
He steals them from the rich
And gives them to the poor
Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore

Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Dum dum dum the night
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Dum de dum dum plight
He steals dum dum dum
And dum dum dum dee
Dennis dum, Dennis dee,
dum dum dum

Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Riding through the woods
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
With his bag of things
He gives to the poor
And he takes from the rich
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore

Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Riding through the land
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Without a merry band
He steals from the poor
And gives to the rich
Stupid bitch

“Blimey, this redistribution of wealth is trickier than I thought!”

PackerBronco on November 23, 2009 at 8:10 PM

“[Dennis] Moore, who won his last race 56 to 40 percent over Jordan, was in trouble because of his support for many of President Barack Obama’s initiatives, including the stimulus package and health care reform.”

I think a quote from Monty Python is appropriate here:

Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Galloping through the sward
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
And his horse Concorde
He steals from the rich
And gives to the poor
Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore

Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Riding through the night
Soon every lupin in the land
Will be in his mighty hand
He steals them from the rich
And gives them to the poor
Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore

Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Dum dum dum the night
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Dum de dum dum plight
He steals dum dum dum
And dum dum dum dee
Dennis dum, Dennis dee,
dum dum dum

Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Riding through the woods
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
With his bag of things
He gives to the poor
And he takes from the rich
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore

Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Riding through the land
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Without a merry band
He steals from the poor
And gives to the rich
Stupid b*tch

“Blimey, this redistribution of wealth is trickier than I thought!”

PackerBronco on November 23, 2009 at 8:10 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Kz7YUdy-Cg

lavell12 on November 23, 2009 at 8:11 PM

Has anyone heard of any details concerning this “commission” to be formed to cut Medicare?

d1carter on November 23, 2009 at 8:11 PM

No worries, the dead make for a loyal voting bloc. Anyone really believe voter fraud won’t be insane in 2010/2012? If an election is close fraud will swing it for Dem. If it’s outside the margin of error the Dem will sue until they win. If it’s a landslide they’ll take a job at a government owned bank for millions in taxpayer dollars.

chicagojedi on November 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM

Palin reminds me of that female sheriff from the movie Fargo.

Underestimate (misunderestimate?) her at your political peril.

silverfox on November 23, 2009 at 7:49 PM
That’s funny…

I remember that ! I think that was Frances McDormand . (sp??)

cableguy615 on November 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM

Our newest national survey finds that Democrats lead 46-38 on the generic Congressional ballot.

That right there calls the credibility into account. PPP is the only group right now showing the Dems ahead at all. From there on, the premises they use just continue to cascade to their final erroneous conclusion. Seems like they are trying to manipulate the numbers to get the dems to pass this thing.

For example, when you have 38% approval for health care, there is no way that passing it is suddenly going vault them from 40-40 split not passing it to 46% win passing it.

PPP credibility — not much

AZfederalist on November 23, 2009 at 8:16 PM

Their base will never turn on them.

LibTired on November 23, 2009 at 8:09 PM

Their base may not turn on them, but those kiddie KoolAid drinkers have a bad habit of oversleeping and not voting.

Knucklehead on November 23, 2009 at 8:16 PM

Their base may not turn on them, but those kiddie KoolAid drinkers have a bad habit of oversleeping and not voting.

Knucklehead on November 23, 2009 at 8:16 PM

If the dead can vote in Chicago, oversleeping kiddie KoolAid drinkers can vote too. Where there’s and Acorn or an SEIU, there’s a way.

Loxodonta on November 23, 2009 at 8:24 PM

Exit question: In this awful political climate, where they’re already handicapped, will Democrats really be so stupid as to wage war on each other? As a certain bestselling author might say: You betcha.

And will we see coverage of that Darwinism or will we see more of the pitting Huckabee supporters against Romney supporters to split the GOP base to prop up RINOs like McCain? The jury is still out on that.

highhopes on November 23, 2009 at 8:34 PM

No surprise, really, on any of those numbers. If they pass a crappy bill, independents will turn on them (44/37 among indies is trainwreck territory for the Democrats), but if they pass nothing, their base will have a conniption and stay home.

I don’t think the base stays home if the Dems pass nothing. Leftist politics is about power nothing more – so the base will vote for them no matter what.

Guantanamo isn’t closed. We haven’t surrendered the WoT quite yet – both things Obama promised them immediately. And yet they still support him overwhelmingly. As long as Obama blames Republicans, a little dithering on policy won’t hurt.

Now the bigger concern is that many Obama voters won’t turn out in an off year election. Can ACORN make up the slack?

18-1 on November 23, 2009 at 8:36 PM

PPP credibility — not much

AZfederalist on November 23, 2009 at 8:16 PM

It’s not about the reality, it is about the quality of whatever they are smoking when they do these polls. I’m willing to bet that even the MN Lizard People come out well against the GOP.

highhopes on November 23, 2009 at 8:38 PM

They dont care, short term they’ll lose some votes no matter what. Long term if this passes it’s a huge edge for them going forward.

Dash on November 23, 2009 at 7:39 PM
—–
You win the shiny new dime.

They’ll pass it, then set up the new bureaucracies (all 111 of ‘em) with as many party hacks and hangers-on that they can find.

Then, in 2010, they’ll take their lumps, but enough of ‘em will make it back in that they can cut deals and maybe the Repubs whack 50 bureaucracies if we’re lucky.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Conservatives are *not* playing the long game. Win, repeal some of the crap, declare victory, go back to business.

RINOs think they can steal the Dems’ blocks and everyone will love them instead.

This is why, even though the country trends center-right, the government trends left left left.

Mew

acat on November 23, 2009 at 9:00 PM

Dems losing either way seems like a big win for America but if it’s at the expense of our economy with Obamacare pssing (in any form) then we’re stil screwed.

Yakko77 on November 23, 2009 at 9:15 PM

We here in Dennis Moores district, couldn’t be happier that he’s finally realized that his time is up! He was such a first class jerk over the August break; He refused to have town halls, he claimed it was because of all the “death threats” against him- Yeah, right.

Lets hope Mr. Moore starts a trend with his fellow cowardly Dems!

anniekc on November 23, 2009 at 9:17 PM

Check out the poll data

1,066 registered voters

Respondent Party Breakout:

Democrat …………………. 41%
Republican………………… 33%
Independent/Other……. 26%

Respondent Self Description:

Liberal ………………… 16%
Moderate………………. 50%
Conservative………… 34%

ROCnPhilly on November 23, 2009 at 9:19 PM

All distractions. They’ll pass this damn thing during the holidays when we are all too busy or maybe some other distraction. People wake up.

johnnyU on November 23, 2009 at 9:44 PM

This shows the atrocious leadership that Obama, as the head of his party, has given. He put his fellow Dhimmicrats in an untenable position. He didn’t have to do this. Had he tacked a more moderate course he could have saved all this socialist crap for his 2nd term. Smart power.

I’m glad he’ll only be a 1 termer. He should have been a NO-termer but at least some libtards learned a lesson.

Mojave Mark on November 23, 2009 at 11:58 PM

This is the last battle of the Cold War, a fight against the totalitarianism which the Democrat Party wants to foist on us all. I would never have thought the American people would have to fight the Stalinism of its own government.

We are living among imponderable stupidities.

Dhuka on November 23, 2009 at 11:59 PM

Actually I think the whole KSM to NY stage show is to take the heat and news off of health care so they can pass it. Health care is the most boring stuff to discuss in history.

If they introduce a new dog and pony show to the media capital of the world, NY, they’ll have to cover it instead of anything else. I would almost put money on this political move. They try them in NY to pass health care with nobody watching.

ThackerAgency on November 23, 2009 at 7:57 PM

Great point. Obowma has done this time after time. The Afghanistan troop increase is another hand jive so never let a crisis go to waste, just invent another one to divert the publics attention.

dthorny on November 24, 2009 at 1:36 AM

Palin reminds me of that female sheriff from the movie Fargo.

Underestimate (misunderestimate?) her at your political peril.

silverfox on November 23, 2009 at 7:49 PM
That’s funny…

I remember that ! I think that was Frances McDormand . (sp??)

cableguy615 on November 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM

And Obowma reminds me of Jimmah Carter with less experience.

Or that guy on SNL.

dthorny on November 24, 2009 at 1:41 AM

Palin reminds me of that female sheriff from the movie Fargo.

Underestimate (misunderestimate?) her at your political peril.

silverfox on November 23, 2009 at 7:49 PM
That’s funny…

I remember that ! I think that was Frances McDormand . (sp??)

cableguy615 on November 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM

Why in the hell are we talking about Palin here? Totally O/T.

RustBelt on November 24, 2009 at 7:09 AM

The political repercussions for Congressional Democrats of not passing a health care bill could be severe.

The repercussions of passing a health care bill WILL be severe.

olesparkie on November 24, 2009 at 8:12 AM

Shouldn’t have kicked that hornet nest, dumbasses.

bloviator on November 24, 2009 at 8:32 AM

It may be a catch 22 for the party collectively, but individually, different people win and lose depending upon the outcome. This underscores the need to make sure Dems who are vulnerable if it wins understand their predicament. Cuz if it wins, ultimately everyone loses.

EconomicNeocon on November 24, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Brings to mind the Scottish saying

Better to be hanged for a sheep than a lamb

entagor on November 24, 2009 at 11:14 AM

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