Open thread: Senate debate on approving debate on Reid plan; Update: Cloture passes, 60-39
posted at 11:07 am on November 21, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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The cloture vote to enable debate, amendments, and assorted Senatorial nonsense on a bill that would revamp 15% of the American economy and put it under the federal thumb has been scheduled for this evening at 8 pm ET, but the debate on the debate has already begun … and it’s already had a moment of ironic nonsense. Harry Reid claimed that a vote against opening debate tonight amounted to an Orwellian action:
“Now he said, anyone who votes for this is going to have a lot of explaining to do,” Reid said during his floor speech today. “Now that is really Orwellian. That is Orwellian. Have a lot of explaing to do if they allow a debate to continue?” …
“All were asking today is to have a debate on it. I mean, why would anyone be afraid in supposedly the greatest debating society in the world
to debate healthcare,” he said. “What are they afraid of?”Reid may have aimed his remarks at the two remaining Democratic holdouts on the motion that needs 60 votes to pass.
You know, a man who wants to put government in charge of making decisions on health care, create “comparative effectiveness” rationing panels, and calls over $500 billion in cuts to Medicare “saving” the program should be cautious about referencing George Orwell and 1984.
Update: Should have mentioned this first, but hat tip to HA commenter Willie for prompting the open thread.
Update (AP): The big question mark, obviously, is Blanche Lincoln, but it’ll be worth watching Nelson’s, Lieberman’s, Bayh’s, and Landrieu’s floor speeches too to see what demands they’re willing to issue publicly for their support going forward. As for tonight’s vote, it’s sort of a free kick for conservatives. Granted, 97 percent of Senate bills that pass this hurdle end up being enacted (so keep calling!), but most bills aren’t remotely as politically fraught as this one. Everyone expects Lincoln to cave and give Reid the 60 he needs — read Jay Cost’s excellent easy peasy three-point analysis for why it’s easy for Blue Dogs to say yes this time — but if she’s sweating now, she’ll be melting down before the final winner-take-all cloture vote a few weeks from now. Notes Cost, “The fact that these Democratic moderates are actually spending time ‘pondering’ whether to vote against starting debate is a sign that they are very skittish about this bill.”
Long story short, tonight is low risk and potentially huge reward. If Lincoln bugs out and the vote fails, it’ll be a nuclear humiliation for the Democrats and will have a lot of people suddenly believing that ObamaCare is un-passable.
Update (AP): Stressing that her yes vote today in no way guarantees a yes on cloture next time, Landrieu says she’s ready to proceed. All eyes on Lincoln now. The Louisiana purchase worked.
Update (AP): Lincoln caves in at 2:30, whining about Republican opposition to any type of reform and demanding at least a debate on how to improve U.S. health care. As I write this, she’s patting herself on the back for resisting both the right and “liberal special interest groups,” but emphasizes that she won’t vote for the Reid bill until the public option is dropped.
That’s 60 votes to proceed, unless someone pulls a very big surprise in the next few hours.
Update: And that’s that. 60-39, promptly at 8 p.m. Next cloture vote, if and when it happens next month or next year, is Armageddon. A hopeful note on a dark night: “It really was that hard for them to get to 60 just to proceed. Very telling.”
Blowback
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Heading to Mass, my Rosary dedication will be for it’s failure, but if it passes, this too will pass in the end God swill be done.
fourdeucer on November 21, 2009 at 3:58 PM
If it passes in all it’s glory. It will be easier to get rid of than if they water it down and make it less bad… then they will just tinker with it for years and this will seem like a success for Democrats in 2009. People will wonder why there was opposition…
But as it is now. It would be repealed as easily as it was passed. I hope.
petunia on November 21, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Everybody needs to support Trevor Downs in Arkansas. A true conservative that is taking on Blanche Lincoln in 2010. Donate or whatever you can. He’s very active on facebook. Invite him as a friend. He is great. We have to throw these people out.
suzyk on November 21, 2009 at 3:59 PM
NONE of the democrats are listening to their constiuents~they are hellbent to ruin the country~but, thanks for advising me of that, obamaite.
HornetSting on November 21, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Even after someting passes the Senate, that bill will go to conference with the House bill. With abortion coverage, some Blue Dogs will not support it, without abortion coverage the libtards will not support it.
Having said that, something will eventually pass. The DemoncRATS & Obama have too much invested in this. If it fails, Obama is a failed President. They will pass something by reconciliation or whatever it takes, the law and Constitution be damned.
mountainmanbob on November 21, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Interesting… too bad we can’t have a conservative take over of the AARP–now that would have clout!
petunia on November 21, 2009 at 4:01 PM
You make no sense.
darwin on November 21, 2009 at 4:01 PM
I just sent Bayh a nasty email. I doubt if he cares, but it made me feel better.
The bastards.
Terrye on November 21, 2009 at 4:02 PM
ProudRino and the Dems are simply about the end. It does not matter how they get there.
CWforFreedom on November 21, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Godspeed the right.
petunia on November 21, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Proud Rino:
They might pay attention when they get their asses handed to them in the next election.
Terrye on November 21, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Heh. Define “real.”
It does.
Because originally insurance was deemed not covered by the commerce clause, and SCOTUS said that insurance *was* within the regulatory ambit of the commerce clause and thus subject to antitrust laws. There were several concerns raised in response to this – basically a bunch of states’ rights stuff and some efficiency arguments – and so Congress enacted the McCarran-Ferguson Act in 1945 exempting insurance from federal antitrust laws as long as they are regulated by state law. But if it’s not regulated by state law, then it isn’t exempt from federal antitrust law.
So, lobby Congress to repeal McCarran-Ferguson, I guess?
Proud Rino on November 21, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Dang! I’ve got work to do! Stop being more interesting than the work I have to do! Just stop it!
petunia on November 21, 2009 at 4:04 PM
That is such crap. The truth is the Democrats are giving a great big eff you to the majority of the American people as they pander to their base…a base that is becoming more and more unpopular with their fellow Americans. Assuming they themselves are Americans of course. I have my doubts from time to time.
Terrye on November 21, 2009 at 4:06 PM
I have been praying to St. Anthony, patron saint of miracles. And I’m not even Catholic.
Wethal on November 21, 2009 at 4:06 PM
It’s not going to matter. Blanche Lincoln isn’t going to be winning her seat no matter what she does on health care. Look, if things keep going the way they’re going in terms of national sentiment, a lot of Democrats are going to lose seats. How they vote on health care isn’t going to make one lick of a difference.
I was only pointing out that you guys who are complaining to your congressman about health care reform – you’re not going to support your Congressman even if he says he’s against it as long as he’s a Democrat, so what’s the point of listening to you?
Proud Rino on November 21, 2009 at 4:06 PM
From an “immediate release” on her website:
Liar.
Marcus on November 21, 2009 at 4:06 PM
LOL. No, it’s not crap, that’s why insurance has an antitrust exemption. It’s called the McCarran-Ferguson Act. It’s a real law.
Proud Rino on November 21, 2009 at 4:08 PM
These Senators don’t give a sh*t. Even if they get voted out, they’ve got a cushy pension and benefits for life, and the opportunity to make even more money lobbying.
Scott P on November 21, 2009 at 4:08 PM
Why? Why is that a lie? She hasn’t lied about anything relating to this yet.
Proud Rino on November 21, 2009 at 4:08 PM
FWIW, i’ve been calling blanche all day as an arkansas resident
its been busy NONSTOP, even during the middle of the razorbacks-mississippi state game
either national people are flooding her office, or arkansans are freakingout
all i know is if the ‘sec of agri’ deal was actually made, blanche is TOAST toast…. what a political ad that will be in arkansas…. “she screwed the voters, and took a backroom deal, blanche lincoln: 21st century good-ole-boy”
battleoflepanto1571 on November 21, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Because all democrats lie.
They do not represent their constituents, they represent special interests and themselves. Lincoln just gave a big finger to her constituents.
darwin on November 21, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Well, Palin is going to do what she can to oust Lincoln. She just tweeted:
yogi41 on November 21, 2009 at 4:11 PM
LOL. Why would anyone bother to watch that anyway?
Proud Rino on November 21, 2009 at 4:11 PM
There’s no “next” “procedural hurdle” that requires 60 votes.
Marcus on November 21, 2009 at 4:12 PM
Another in a long line of defeats for Real America. You guys should move or something.
simplesimon on November 21, 2009 at 4:12 PM
Actually I didn’t know that there was a real reason:) Thanks.
It’s weird but state regulation of health insurance needs to end. That is one of the huge problems limiting people’s freedom of choice right now.
And I don’t understand how we can allow insurance companies to collude on pricing the way they do. That makes it less of a competition on price and benefits and more competition of advertising and schmoozing corporations and unions.
I do think insurance should be less employer based… so it could be moved around with the person. The employer insurance benefit could apply to whatever insurance the individual chose, instead of the employer choosing insurance for the whole company.
Real tort reform: whatever makes malpractice insurance affordable and not a drain on the system.
petunia on November 21, 2009 at 4:12 PM
Oh cool, so you’re ignorant. How’s that going?
Proud Rino on November 21, 2009 at 4:13 PM
It only applies to health insurance. I wonder why? Hmmmmmm …
darwin on November 21, 2009 at 4:13 PM
I have heard talk that a legal challenge will be brought against the mandate to buy insurance.
At no point in history has the federal government ever mandated that citizens buy something.
(Some will, of course, immediately point to car insurance. That, first of all, is a prerequisite to driving on public roads. You can live as a citizen without buying auto insurance. You just can’t legally drive a car. Second, insurance requirements are mandated by the states, not the federal government. Just saying, for the inevitable libtard comment.)
If the federal government can mandate that citizens buy something just to exist, or they will be thrown in jail or fined, then there is no limit on federal power.
They can make us do anything.
Assuming the case reaches the Supreme Court (whichever way a Federal Court rules), and assuming SCOTUS accepts it…
Our freedom and future will depend on how Justice Kennedy is feeling that day.
If that seems like small comfort, it is.
Hawkins1701 on November 21, 2009 at 4:13 PM
God swill indeed. America needs more patriotic papists like you.
simplesimon on November 21, 2009 at 4:14 PM
um, because its ARKANSAS?
sorry mr manhattan silver spoon, but people in the south love their college football, regardless of records. (arkansas is 7-4 btw)
btw, mallet had another 300 yd passing game with 5 tds…. “why would i watch it”
MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!
battleoflepanto1571 on November 21, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Stopping a Filibuster requires 60 votes.
petunia on November 21, 2009 at 4:15 PM
No it doesn’t.
Proud Rino on November 21, 2009 at 4:15 PM
I can’t write what should be done to these people in Congress.
God have mercy on their lying souls!!
Goodnight to freedom in America.
Hello tyranny, rationing, death panels and gloating and haughty Liberals.
PappyD61 on November 21, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Yup.
OBAMACARE is DEAD one way or another
the mandate will never pass the constitution; hence, it will not be paid for
look folks, this CAN be repealed, espeecially if nothing with coverage ehappens until 2014
the TAXES start now, but get in a gop majority in the house in 2010 (looking more likely every day) and get sarah in there in 2012, and repeal it with the stroke of a pen!
battleoflepanto1571 on November 21, 2009 at 4:16 PM
These are such trying times. Every night I dedicate the Rosary to America. I woke up this morning realizing that all of this is in God’s hands…no matter what the turn out…He owns the Bigger Plan…but being Catholic now is difficult…holding on through the raging bleakness…I continue to push forward w/ Christ, having completely given up.
lobosan5 on November 21, 2009 at 4:17 PM
We just recently celebrated the destruction of a barrier built by communists to imprison the population of a city in East Germany. It was called the Berlin Wall!
Before the Soviets constructed this wall the city of Berlin was one city. Then one sunny day, like any other day, the communists sent their army to stand shoulder to shoulder as construction crews began erecting the barrier meant to keep them from escaping the reach of the communist leaders. The Berlin Wall began to be raised right before the eyes of the people! Some were able to easily flee at first. But as time passed, the wall grew higher, stronger and more deadly to cross.
I am telling you, this Democrat party, with the aid of some within the Republican party, have been standing arm in arm against the American people for some time. But now, as we watch they are finally attempting to lay the foundations of a barrier that will be as strong as any concrete wall ever built! And the result will be to imprison us just the same!
The Soviets proclaimed the Berlin Wall was meant to protect East Berliners from the evils of capitalism, preserving the workers paradise! This Democrat controlled government is proclaiming the same kind of lies to the American people, that the wall they build to keep us in and within their reach is for our own protection! It is for our own good! It will be our “health care paradise!”
So great and wonderful was Communist East Berlin, that anyone who lacked true appreciation for all the communist leaders provided would be shot dead if caught escaping.
While the Democrats have not yet discussed shoot to kill orders, fines and imprisonment will be the fate of Americans who attempt to flee the health care prison they construct for us! I suppose we can at least be thankful for that!
Abraham Lincoln said “The cause of civil liberty must not be surrendered at the end of one, or even one hundred defeats.”
If the Democrats succeed in passing this sham of a law disguised as health care, many on our side will tempted to give in to the darker side, believe America is finished and all hope is lost. But, it doesn’t have to be.
If The communists in East Berlin taught the world one thing, the people of East Berlin, and a man named Ronald Reagan certainly taught the world something quite different. Evil is not omnipotent.
Yes, history is filled with suffering, tragedy and destruction. Yet, history also has its miracles. America was one such miracle. That same Berlin Wall coming down was another.
The only thing that both needed were a willing, determined people.
JellyToast on November 21, 2009 at 4:18 PM
You do understand that there will be no mercy right? Pleas for mercy will be ignored. However, you will be allowed to cry and wail.
darwin on November 21, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Bull$#!+. You’re voting yes for the bill, and everybody knows it.
Jim Treacher on November 21, 2009 at 4:20 PM
Winner winner chicken dinner. I agree completely with this.
Proud Rino on November 21, 2009 at 4:20 PM
Let’s put a hold on that mercy for a bit… I’d pray for a wee bit of suffering first;)
petunia on November 21, 2009 at 4:20 PM
I doubt that it will help at this point, but I just emailed Sen. Coburn and asked him to basically tell the Republican leadership to shove it and do what ever it takes to stop this abortion from moving forward.
farright on November 21, 2009 at 4:20 PM
Unlike health insurance, I can carry the same insurance for my vehicle wherever I go.
darwin on November 21, 2009 at 4:20 PM
And it’s exempt from antitrust regulation wherever you go.
Proud Rino on November 21, 2009 at 4:22 PM
May their days be fewer than they wish.
And may others take their office.
newton on November 21, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Lobosan5
read John Ch 14.
mountainmanbob on November 21, 2009 at 4:22 PM
I agree that it can be repealed. It will require a dedicated, driven, relentless campaign. And public outrage, which I certainly think will materialize.
But, I think it is folly to assume that SCOTUS will do the right thing. See Dred Scott, Roe, Kilo.
The law means whatever the hell SCOTUS decide it means.
Hawkins1701 on November 21, 2009 at 4:22 PM
As you watch your mother waste away because she’s not worth saving, don’t mind me as I laugh at you.
Jim Treacher on November 21, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Including Proud Rino, he’s lying just like her.
darwin on November 21, 2009 at 4:23 PM
YES!! THAT IS CORRECT.
God’s Will…there , corrected that for you.
so, simple baby…go stick your finger in someone else’s pie.
lobosan5 on November 21, 2009 at 4:23 PM
I’ve been gone from the computer since 11:45 and come back to this. Hey, I thought I was the only Nebraskan rebel…count me in.
yoda on November 21, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Whatever happened to Coburn reading the bill? Is that still a go? At very least stalling this off gives more time for the “moderates” to consider their future in the unemployment lines… like they would ever need unemployment.
petunia on November 21, 2009 at 4:24 PM
I cannot wait for the day when I come back here and see simplesimon complaining because his take-home pay is 50% less in 2011 than it was in 2009 and I cannot wait for the day when a woman he loves is told to wait a few more years for that mammogram, then told the drugs to treat her stage 4 breast cancer aren’t covered because she’s too old and not worth saving.
I also cannot wait for the day morons like him wake up and realize that us “patriotic papists” hold a significant number of hospital beds in this nation, which we will empty and destroy, before letting our faith be compromised by this bill.
It will be a sweet day indeed to watch liberals b*tch and moan when they have to wait six months to see a specialist or have surgery.
They will get what they deserve. And I hope they get it in spades.
englishqueen01 on November 21, 2009 at 4:24 PM
I’d be shocked if she ends up voting for the actual bill regardless of what it looks like. They don’t need her vote, so she and a few other Ds can defect and try to preserve their seats.
Proud Rino on November 21, 2009 at 4:25 PM
Invoking the name of Kennedy is as lame as the GOPers who’ve done the same with President Reagan’s name.
They don’t mean it. They don’t believe it. They just want to invoke emotions. Well, Kennedy was no role model, no matter how much the New Fascist Party tries to make him one.
madmonkphotog on November 21, 2009 at 4:25 PM
So a Republican should only listen to his Republican constituents and vice versa for Dems. Wonderful version of democracy you have there.
angryed on November 21, 2009 at 4:25 PM
+1,000,000!
newton on November 21, 2009 at 4:26 PM
I doubt that it will help at this point, but I just emailed Sen. Coburn and asked him to basically tell the Republican leadership to shove it and do what ever it takes to stop this abortion from moving forward.
farright on November 21, 2009 at 4:20 PM
Maybe De Mint could have stopped it but then Republicans have 40 votes in the Senate. If only he had 30!
rightistliberal on November 21, 2009 at 4:28 PM
This can and will need to be reversed. We have a lot of Constitutional options.
Contrary to AP and others, a real revolt is possible, let’s pray it’s peaceful one.
True_King on November 21, 2009 at 4:28 PM
yeah but at leat those (dred scott excluded, ditto plessyy, etc..) have SOME sort of constitutional answer
i mean roe sucks, but i at least UNDERSTAND the weasel words of applying the 14th amendment to women from the federal govt instead of having states do it (disagree, but it is a legal argument)
i UNDERSTAND kelo (again i hate it) from the sense of ‘eminent domain’; if it is used for ‘public good’ as it is written in the const, then you dont just do E.D. for roads, but could for parks, waterfront stuff, monuments, etc. i dont agree with it extending to corporate redevelopment, but at least UNDERSTAND the legal argument behind it
but mandating health insurance to be bought? there is NO – ZERO — constitutional answer for it. what do you use? the commerce clause? NO! HI is done on a state level, so its not up to the feds. you can’t say ‘promote the general welfare’ (which, um, is in the preamble), because promoting that could also mean doing things like saying cars can physically drive no faster than 70 to detroit (cant happen), or saying that the fed smoking ban applies to the states (cant happen), or saying some sort of tough gun requirements for ‘safety’ (cant happen).
i mean there is NO LEGAL ARGUMENT behind the mandate. even obama himself said that in the dem primary. it’s crazy to think that even kennedy would say there is.
what will they point to? they are required to write an opinion explaining it. theyt can’t just say “i like govt health insurance”, there has to be a reason.
where is it? the feds only get to do so much, and mandating ANYTHING ain’t it.
battleoflepanto1571 on November 21, 2009 at 4:29 PM
really? the dems have 58 members, 60 in the caucus. who can ‘defect’?
NO ONE. ALL DEMS HAVE TO VOTE AYE TO BEAT THE FILIBUSTER
battleoflepanto1571 on November 21, 2009 at 4:30 PM
What amazes me is how lock step these lemmings followed that weasel Reid so readily.
Like the Dims following Pelosi over the cliff.
Pelosi is a typical dawdling elderly lady that can’t put together a coherent sentence. She is clearly confused. Not once did she properly articulate any key points in her bill.
Reid is simply a weasel.
All this for what? To award the empty suit a spot in history? It surely is not about a better health care delivery system.
Lincoln disappointed me, gutless Landrieu was anticipated.
FireBlogger on November 21, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Folks~
Proud Rino VOTED FOR OBAMA.
Any and all arguments from it are FROM AN OBAMA VOTER……And, not worth the trouble.
HornetSting on November 21, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Have you ever listened to libertarians in the South? I don’t think it will be. And I’m in Texas.
madmonkphotog on November 21, 2009 at 4:30 PM
I didn’t say what they should or shouldn’t do, what I’m saying is what they will do. If you call up your congressman about a specific local issue, he’ll assume (basically) that there are 100 voters out there thinking exactly like you, and as long as he doesn’t need money from the opposition group or he doesn’t have strong personal feelings about that issue, you’re going to get your vote.
But on these big issues, everyone writes and calls in, because you’ve got advocacy groups asking you to. It’s great, but they stop using the calculus that makes letter-writing so effective. So they look at public polling, try to figure out where their own constituents stand, and vote accordingly, and your letter doesn’t really mean jack.
Proud Rino on November 21, 2009 at 4:31 PM
F*ck You Harry Reid. These crooks are destroying my country. Just wait, when this crap kicks in, and then add cap and tax, unemployment is in the 20′s, inflation is through the roof, ppl’s lives are being dictated by the assh*les in congress, WE ARE GOING TO REVOLT!
MyImamToldMeToDoIt on November 21, 2009 at 4:31 PM
How about you “move” into the view of an oncoming semi. You’re a P.O.S. Wow, the guy prayed against your beloved public option. Get the f*ck over yourself. No liberal, none, comes on here to harass and slander people like you do, BUT THANKS RACE FAN!
NathanG on November 21, 2009 at 4:31 PM
John Ch 14.
mountainmanbob , thank you.
http://www.sgwiki.com/wiki/John_ch._14
lobosan5 on November 21, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Yes, but if she votes to end debate, she can still vote against the bill itself. WOULD YOU UNDERSTAND IT BETTER IF I WROTE IT IN ALL CAPS?
Proud Rino on November 21, 2009 at 4:32 PM
You better watch your back. Someone’s going to bite it off ya.
newton on November 21, 2009 at 4:33 PM
Who’s this moron who is saying that business don’t pass their increasing costs to consumers?
He obviously doesn’t have the slightest clue about how businesses (in a free market) work.
RedbonePro on November 21, 2009 at 4:35 PM
um that is what is called “voting for the bill”
this isn’t 1840. people are aware of senate rules.
a vote to break the filibuster will be campaigned on as ‘a vote for obamacare’
welcome to the 21st century
battleoflepanto1571 on November 21, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Coburn gave in to the GOP “leadership.” They get ten hours of debate in exchange for not insisting on a reading at this point.
Coburn would have needed about six other senators to help him read, and apparently he didn’t have that much support.
Wethal on November 21, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Good morning to hyperbole, hysteria, conspiracy theories, whining, and anxious, angry wingnuts.
Grow Fins on November 21, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Funny….they’re fixing mine.
Grow Fins on November 21, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Very few members of Congress have run a business. They have no idea how to meet a payroll. For Congress, deficit spending means the money is always there to spend for what they need to get re-elected.
Wethal on November 21, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Someone’s angry.
Grow Fins on November 21, 2009 at 4:38 PM
ummm, you got the angry part right anyways.
RedbonePro on November 21, 2009 at 4:38 PM
englishqueen01 and henny – another wisconsinite here. I signed up at madisonteaparty.com already. This will not stand.
dagney on November 21, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Simple troll, you really have no clue what this all means do you?
FireBlogger on November 21, 2009 at 4:39 PM
July 13, 1789. Google it.
newton on November 21, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Have you made your donation to stop Palin’s evil, dangerous book yet?
Jim Treacher on November 21, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Correction: Kelo
Hawkins1701 on November 21, 2009 at 4:39 PM
please name me 1 bill, ANY bill, that the gop did from 1994-2006 that changed society/policy/domestic institutions 1/1000th as much as obamacare does
i’m waiting
heck, even the EEEVILLLL ‘patriot act’ did NOTHING to american citizens
NAME ME ONE BILL
battleoflepanto1571 on November 21, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Can a citizen help read? I would’ve volunteered!
misslizzi on November 21, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Nah, she’ll be gone too. The democrat party will have to be purged completely to rid itself of the virus of progressivism that’s infected it.
darwin on November 21, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Look at all the trolls…..did Axelrod run out of…..well, nevermind.
Make sure you take off your kneepads, trolls!
HornetSting on November 21, 2009 at 4:40 PM
I didn’t know they had Internet access in Candyland.
Jim Treacher on November 21, 2009 at 4:40 PM
seriously, though, does it not bother you with the breast mammogram ‘recommednation’ this week from thee govt?
do you not get a clue that once this passes, sure, “things” will be “paid for” (in taxes), but only the procedures the govt wants to pay for will be covered?
id ont know if youre a man or woman, young or old, but name me how this makes YOUR health BETTER. ’cause i have 100 reasons why it will make yours worse!
battleoflepanto1571 on November 21, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Didn’t know you were a citizen of the good ol’ USSR, Finny.
MrScribbler on November 21, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Go for it.
Grow Fins on November 21, 2009 at 4:43 PM
That’s possible if you’re a union flunky. All the democrats are doing is robbing the population blind … and it’s all to supposedly give insurance to about 8 million people. Steal as much money as possible while destroying any system that would allow people to remain independent.
It’s the democcrat way.
darwin on November 21, 2009 at 4:43 PM
-how does this bill make HC better?
battleoflepanto1571 on November 21, 2009 at 4:43 PM
no one is banning private insurance.
Grow Fins on November 21, 2009 at 4:44 PM
it wouldnt surprise to see this now.
as we speak, most of the job creation has been in texas, so things like the stimulus, etc., where corporate taxes are, it’s basically texas alone subsidizine blue states where dems have run the economy into the ground.
i think you’ll see more and more ‘soviergnty’ things. i just wish one red state governor would stand up and say ‘no more. we arent doing this, feds. screw you.’ and stop paying taxes altogether on unconstitutional bills/provisions.
battleoflepanto1571 on November 21, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Well said.
I do so hope you’re right.
Hawkins1701 on November 21, 2009 at 4:45 PM
you’d know, Treacle Mouth.
Grow Fins on November 21, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Here’s the thing about liberals. They don’t think of the consequences of their actions. Ever. The same virus that gives us abortion gives us crap like this. They don’t ever think through a subject to the logical end. They just do whatever “feels” right and then blame the results on someone else.
Vera on November 21, 2009 at 4:46 PM
You’re really stupid if you believe that. Really
darwin on November 21, 2009 at 4:46 PM
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