The tax increases of the Reid plan on ObamaCare

posted at 10:55 am on November 19, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

What do the Reid and Pelosi plans for ObamaCare have in common?  Taxes, taxes, taxes — and Keith Hennessey breaks them down for us this morning.  The Joint Committee on Taxation identified six major new taxes or tax increases that will, according to Harry Reid, suck more than $370 billion out of the economy:

  • 40% excise tax on health coverage in excess of $8,500 (individuals) / $23,000 (families). Amounts are indexed for inflation by CPI-U + 1% – begins in 2013 – $149 B tax increase
  • Additional 0.5% Medicare (Hospital Insurance) tax on wages in excess of $200,000 ($250,000 for joint filers) – begins in 2013 – $54 B tax increase
  • Impose annual fee on manufacturers and importers of branded drugs – begins in 2010 – $22 B tax increase
  • Impose annual fee on manufacturers and importers of certain medical devices – begins in 2010 – $19 B tax increase
  • Cut in half (to $500K) the amount of an executive’s compensation that a health plan can deduct from its corporate income taxes – begins in 2013 – $600 million tax increase
  • Impose 5% excise tax on cosmetic surgery and similar procedures – begins for surgery in 2010 – $6 B tax increase!

Be sure to read all of Keith’s analysis, but pay particular attention to this:

Medicare payroll tax increase (§9015, beginning on page 2040)

Wow. It’s incredible that a Democratic leader would propose this.

Current law:

  • Wages up to $106,800 in 2009 (and in 2010) are subject to payroll taxes of 15.3%: 12.4% Social Security + 2.9% Medicare.
  • Wages above $106,800 are subject to payroll taxes of 2.9%.

My reading of §9014 of the bill tells me that Leader Reid proposes the following addition (changes in red):

  • For individuals, wages between $106,800 and $200,000 for individuals are subject to payroll taxes of 2.9%.
  • For individuals, wages above $200,000 are subject to payroll taxes of 3.4%. That’s a 0.5 percentage point tax increase. So for each $1K you make above $200K, you would pay $5 more in payroll taxes.
  • For joint filers, wages between $106,800 and $250,000 for individuals are subject to payroll taxes of 2.9%.
  • For individuals, wages above $250,000 are subject to payroll taxes of 3.4%. That’s a 0.5 percentage point tax increase. So for each $1K you make above $250K, you would pay $5 more in payroll taxes.

These threshold amounts of $200K and $250K are not indexed for inflation or wages, so more real income in each subsequent year will be subject to the 0.5 percentage point tax increase.

The additional 0.5 percentage point tax increase comes on the employee side, so you still pay income taxes on these additional amounts of taxes paid.

With this proposal, Senator Reid is leading Democrats across a major philosophical threshold. Since Social Security was created in the 30’s and Medicare in 1965, payroll tax revenues have been “dedicated” to financing these programs. While not all funding to finance Medicare comes from payroll taxes, all funding from the Medicare payroll tax finances Medicare. In other words, the 2.9% Hospital Insurance payroll tax that you and your employer pay on your wages is all supposed to offset Medicare spending. That is part of the social insurance model, in which everyone pays in a fraction of their wages, and everyone receives benefits later.

I am not a fan of the social insurance model, because it is non-transparent: most people think their individual taxes paid are being used to finance their benefits, when in fact the funds are used to subsidize other people’s benefits. But the social insurance model and dedicated payroll taxes have been a core principle of Social Security and Medicare financing since they were created, and advocates (especially on the Left) of those programs have fiercely defended this principle.

Leader Reid’s bill would use new Medicare payroll taxes to finance a new health entitlement outside of Medicare. His bill would turn Medicare payroll taxes into a general financing mechanism like the income tax. There is a slippery-slope argument against this that I would normally expect from the Left. If Republicans (or my former boss) had proposed this, I would expect AARP to come unglued and raise fears among seniors that, if this proposal becomes law, future Congresses might take payroll tax revenues and use them for highways or defense or other non-social insurance spending. I am interested to see how AARP reacts. Will they support the Reid bill as they did the House bill? (Reporters: There’s a story for you. Ask AARP.)

In addition, Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes have always worked from the bottom of the wage scale upward, because they are traditionally tied to benefit eligibility. Leader Reid is now creating a “donut hole” in which there are three rate “brackets.” This initiates and lays the groundwork for the future expansion of a progressive tax rate structure for payroll taxes. This makes it easier for future lawmakers to raise payroll taxes to finance other parts of government, because they’re just “taxing the rich.” While the Reid proposal applies only to wages at the top of the distribution, the principle would be in place to justify raising payroll taxes in that $106K – $200K in the future. Watch out.

Both of these are enormous precedents, long-term structural game changers in how we finance our government.

The non-indexing for inflation raises an interesting question about whether it breaks President Obama’s pledge. Was his $250K limit in real or nominal dollars?

This provision is a big risk for moderate Senate Democrats.

Is it as big of a risk for moderates as failing to pass a bill will be for Obama and the progressives?  That’s the big question.  Will people get angry enough over a new government entitlement that purports to solve a real issue for many Americans — the increasing cost of health care?  Never mind, for the moment, that it doesn’t actually solve that problem, but makes it worse.  Most won’t see that until 2013 at the earliest, by which point it will be far too late.

Reid canceled cap-and-trade, for all intents and purposes, by pushing the debate into the spring.  Reid can’t sell cap-and-trade as an entitlement program, after all.  It looks like he cleared the decks for a full-throated push on this bill, hoping to avoid questions such as the ones Hennessey raises.  And it might work, unless American voters get very vocal with their Senators, right now.

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I don’t know why I feel this way but I don’t think the Senate will vote on this for a long long time.

Call me crazy, call it lack of sleep – I just feel like the tide is turning.

gophergirl on November 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM

This War is Lost!!

Dire Straits on November 19, 2009 at 11:00 AM

I wish I could help, but My senators would run me over in their Limo if thats what it took to vote for this crap (MA).

Mord on November 19, 2009 at 11:00 AM

Just as a related aside… tax hikes during a recession are stupid… but then again they are generally a bad idea (at the current levels)… during good, bad or indifferent economic times.

mankai on November 19, 2009 at 11:00 AM

I’ll have to email Kohl again the last email he told me the bill wasn’t out. This is a piece of crap. I hope they kill it so it won’t get to debate but that won’t happen it will hit the Senate floor. This just sucks.

Brat4life on November 19, 2009 at 11:01 AM

Man, if there’s one thing Democrats know it’s the economy……!

JoeinTX on November 19, 2009 at 11:02 AM

These figures were floated in the election and debated then. As long as they stay above a threshhold, I don’t think that will bother voters.

I DO think the complexity of the administration, the lack of any real benefits now, and the horrid increases that the industry will pile on fast will affect voters very negatively.

AnninCA on November 19, 2009 at 11:02 AM

Maybe the resident Obamazombies can explain to everyone how:

1) increasing taxes on device makers will lower the costs of care and treatment

2) not reforming malpractice/tort law will decrease the costs of medical care

3) how raising taxes on the middle class will increase economic growth and individual liberty

4) how enacting a $1-trillion+ health care takeover by an entity that sends crucial taxpayer funds to congressional districts that don’t exist is going to streamline health care, increase access and decrease costs and bureaucratic incompetence

5) how “free” health care that is going to plunge the nation into a debt hole that guarantees it will be underwater for the next several decades is a “great thing”

6) how increasing regulation, taxes and mandates on individuals, small business, medium-sized businesses and large business is going to “encourage economic growth

7) how “taxing the rich” encourages investment and entrepreneurial activity

Among other things. So far, all we’ve heard is:

a) shut up, or
b) Bush’s fault or
c) Sara Palin is the devil

None of which address any of the substantive challenges to Democrat policy listed above.

Get cracking, Obamazombies.

Good Lt on November 19, 2009 at 11:02 AM

The Stupid Party often lives up to its name, but the Evil Party never fails to.

Akzed on November 19, 2009 at 11:02 AM

Smells like freedom. – Bleeds Blue

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:02 AM

Oh, I hope you’re right, Gophergirl.

Oink on November 19, 2009 at 11:02 AM

So Democrats want to control health care so they can tax it up? Logical for a Democrat.

Hening on November 19, 2009 at 11:03 AM

I’m a huge douchebag who obsesses over Palin. I have nothing to say on this topic in particular. – Grow Fins

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:03 AM

When does Congress leave town for their winter break? I’ve got a feeling if this can be delayed til 2010, there’s a pretty good chance it won’t pass.

Doughboy on November 19, 2009 at 11:03 AM

That’s also why the CBO “analysis” seems so completely meaningless. Any bill can “reduce” the deficit if it includes enough new taxes. The bill could lower the deficit further in the short-term by simply confiscating the property of the richest 5%.

No wonder Joe the Plumber got into so much trouble for getting Obama to talk about redistribution.

Drained Brain on November 19, 2009 at 11:03 AM

This BS needs ro be renamed MadoffCare in honor of the inspiration of the accounting methods used to sell it.

gsherin on November 19, 2009 at 11:04 AM

Psalms 109:8

Fishy.Gov on November 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Impose 5% excise tax on cosmetic surgery and similar procedures – begins for surgery in 2010 – $6 B tax increase!

I’ll have to email Kohl again the last email he told me the bill wasn’t out.

Of course, such taxes do not apply to Nancy, Barbara, Barney, Herb and the rest of the beauty divas in Dingy Harry\’s Best Little Whorehouse on the Potomac.

SeniorD on November 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Apply the 5% tax on elective procedures to abortions. Why should someone’s abortion get a free ride if I am going to have to pay a 5% tax on my facelift?

bopbottle on November 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM

The KSM trial is bright shiny object to distract us from this sinister health care nazionalization.

We need to focus on this attempt to take over 1/6th of our economy.

rbj on November 19, 2009 at 11:07 AM

OT: Palin is on the Laura Ingraham Radio Show right now.

Dire Straits on November 19, 2009 at 11:09 AM

The idea that $37 billion a year is going to have a significant effect on the economy one way or the other is ludicrous on its face, especially since it be recycled into health care spending which creates employment as surely as whatever it would have been spent on otherwise does. Might actually be a very small net plus for the economy, given the greater propensity of the well off to save their money or spend it in Cap d’Antilles rather than pumping up consumer demand in, say, Missouri.

And a $5/marginal thousand tax increase for the top wage-earners in the country is hardly the stuff of prairie fires and tea-party rallies.

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM

I just love laws that pit one group of people versus another…it is so healthy for society.

WashJeff on November 19, 2009 at 11:11 AM

most people think their individual taxes paid are being used to finance their benefits, when in fact the funds are used to subsidize other people’s benefits.

really, most people think that? kinda surprised by that…

cmsinaz on November 19, 2009 at 11:13 AM

Smells like freedom. – Bleeds Blue

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:02 AM

Nah, this time he went the “smells like prosperity for all” route.

myrenovations on November 19, 2009 at 11:13 AM

The idea that $37 billion a year is going to have a significant effect on the economy one way or the other is ludicrous on its face, especially since it be recycled into health care spending which creates employment as surely as whatever it would have been spent on otherwise does

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM

If we can up that number to $787 Billion it should work wonders on the economy.

WashJeff on November 19, 2009 at 11:13 AM

The must be suicidal. Seriously, upping taxes isn’t something you can hide from voters. Neither is lying about a recovering economy. People know when they lose their jobs, and they know when they can’t find another. And people will notice if they end up paying more for their health care.

Queen0fCups on November 19, 2009 at 11:14 AM

The taxes on botox/plastic surgery between Pelosi and Plugs should just about cover the entire bill. Free Healthcare from Skeletor and Bozo.

NJ Red on November 19, 2009 at 11:14 AM

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM

Will you please think of the chickens?

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:15 AM

What do the Reid and Pelosi plans for ObamaCare have in common?

What’s NOT in common is the Stupak amendment has been stripped out of Reids bill. Taxpayer dollars will now pay for abortion if this bill passes as written.

Rovin on November 19, 2009 at 11:16 AM

really, most people think that? kinda surprised by that…

cmsinaz on November 19, 2009 at 11:13 AM

I think we all understand group insurance and how it works.

AnninCA on November 19, 2009 at 11:17 AM

The idea that $37 billion a year is going to have a significant effect on the economy one way or the other is ludicrous on its face, especially since it be recycled into health care spending which creates employment as surely as whatever it would have been spent on otherwise does. Might actually be a very small net plus for the economy, given the greater propensity of the well off to save their money or spend it in Cap d’Antilles rather than pumping up consumer demand in, say, Missouri.

And a $5/marginal thousand tax increase for the top wage-earners in the country is hardly the stuff of prairie fires and tea-party rallies.

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM

Yea, because the government always runs things properly and successfully without any bureaucratic tape getting in the way. SURE.

NJ Red on November 19, 2009 at 11:17 AM

This entire house of cards should collapse. If you go back and read the Obama budget release from February, most of the cost of health care reform was supposed to be paid for by the $600 billion in revenues generated by cap-and-trade. At least from a progressive point of view, that made sense – it paid for a new entitlement, helped reduce carbon emissions, and avoided broad-based income or payroll tax increases.

There is noting economically sensible about the financing mechanisms in either the House or Senate healthcare bills. They are simply scrambling to find huge random chunks of money they can take without too many people squealing – no matter how many of their own progressive principles they violate in the process, and no matter how damaging the tax increases will be for the overall economy.

So much for “smart power.”

rockmom on November 19, 2009 at 11:18 AM

rbj on November 19, 2009 at 11:07 AM

I’m beginning to think you are correct. I question the timing.

a capella on November 19, 2009 at 11:18 AM

AnninCA on November 19, 2009 at 11:17 AM

I wonder about that…

cmsinaz on November 19, 2009 at 11:20 AM

The idea that $37 billion a year is going to have a significant effect on the economy one way or the other is ludicrous on its face, especially since it be recycled into health care spending which creates employment as surely as whatever it would have been spent on otherwise does. Might actually be a very small net plus for the economy, given the greater propensity of the well off to save their money or spend it in Cap d’Antilles rather than pumping up consumer demand in, say, Missouri.

And a $5/marginal thousand tax increase for the top wage-earners in the country is hardly the stuff of prairie fires and tea-party rallies.

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM

Now I know why you Bleed Blue, you have been drinking that liberal Kool-Aid too long. Please go read any Economics 101 textbook and stop relying on Thomas Frank for your economics lessons.

rockmom on November 19, 2009 at 11:21 AM

If we can up that number to $787 Billion it should work wonders on the economy.

WashJeff on November 19, 2009 at 11:13 AM

You support my point — if $787 billion doesn’t change things (though I would argue that the dramatic shift in the direction of the economy since 1Q shows that it has) change in the way a $40 billion slice of a $15 trillion pie is distributed will have no detectable effect.

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:21 AM

But remember it’s free!

gwelf on November 19, 2009 at 11:22 AM

KBH is right that the Medicare tax increase proposal is an absolute stunner.

For decades, Social Security and Medicare (whatever their other design flaws) have maintained separately accounted-for Trust Funds. Although in practical effect all federal funds and expenditures are intermingled, the separate accounting for Soc Sec/Medicare was designed to distinguish them from “welfare” — each program was ultimately entitled to spend the revenues credited to their Trust Funds, and no more. The Funds, in turn, were to be financed by a distinct revenue stream (mostly payroll tax revenues.)

It’s hard to overstate what a big deal this latest proposal is. Basically the bill proposes to end that longstanding design — it proposes to hike Medicare taxes explicitly to pay for non-Medicare spending.

AARP has already sold out their membership by signing off on the principle that Medicare spending should be restrained not for the program’s own sake, but to offset the budgetary cost of a new health care entitlement.

But it’s hard to even think of a justification that AARP could voice for diverting the dedicated tax revenues of Medicare (the single most underfunded program in the federal budget) for another program.

Chuckles3 on November 19, 2009 at 11:22 AM

And a $5/marginal thousand tax increase for the top wage-earners in the country is hardly the stuff of prairie fires and tea-party rallies.

Translated:

SHUT UP, DO YOUR PATRIOTIC DUTY BY PAYING MORE TAXES TO THE BLOATED WASTE-FILLED FEDERAL BUREAUCRACY AND LIKE IT, WINGNUTS.

Keep the miracle-working up, genius. It’s doing wonders for the GOP, which is just another unintended consequence of President Teleprompter Jesus and his Clown Car Congress’s antics.

See you in 2010 and 2012 and 2014 and 2016 and beyond.

it be recycled into health care spending which creates employment as surely as whatever it would have been spent on otherwise does.

But you said it means nothing in the overall economy one way or the other, so recycling it into “health care spending” won’t “create jobs.” what jobs? Where? How many? Humor us with details – this has been a problem for the Obamaites.

Assuming, of course, that spending public money “creates jobs,” as we’re seeing with each passing day it, in reality, doesn’t.

So much for experimental Keynesian economics.

Good Lt on November 19, 2009 at 11:22 AM

Now I know why you Bleed Blue, you have been drinking that liberal Kool-Aid too long. Please go read any Economics 101 textbook and stop relying on Thomas Frank for your economics lessons.

rockmom on November 19, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Any more detail you want to add? Or juct clearing your throat?

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Ideology, ideology, ideology: We won, and this is what we are going to do. We don’t care what a few crazy Americans think. We will lie, bribe members of congress, and steal from this and future generations, but we are going to get this done now.

GaltBlvnAtty on November 19, 2009 at 11:23 AM

more taxes from a democrat???? who saw that coming?

search4truth on November 19, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Video: Pelosi as Grinch (includes a singing Rachel Maddow): http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/11/speaker-pelosi-discusses-her-health.html

Mervis Winter on November 19, 2009 at 11:23 AM

I’m afraid that the “fix is in” on this one. The only hope is that they can’t strong arm sixty votes to consider it. If it does pass just imagine what a monster it will become in conference when melded with that piece of junk that passed in the house. These people are so obsessed with passing “something” that they refuse to take the obvious step of killing it and starting over. To do it right you need to start with tort reform and proceed from there.

duff65 on November 19, 2009 at 11:24 AM

Starting to look more like a tax bill than a healthcare bill.

Why am I not surprised?

fogw on November 19, 2009 at 11:24 AM

My lord you are a F@$&ing fool bleeds.

daesleeper on November 19, 2009 at 11:25 AM

The idea that $37 billion a year is going to have a significant effect on the economy one way or the other is ludicrous on its face, especially since it be recycled into health care spending which creates employment as surely as whatever it would have been spent on otherwise does.

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM

Yes, the government is the absolute pinnacle of efficient spending. This is the same logic that says, since 787 billion isn’t getting the job done, we should pass a second stimulus that’s twice as big. Since government spending just recycles into employment anyways, we should up taxes on everyone. It works in Europe, after all.

I know it’s early, but try not to set yourself up for such an easy takedown.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:21 AM

That’s a leg to stand on, I suppose. If spending $800 billion accomplished nothing, surely $40 billion will accomplish less.

I support this idea.

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:26 AM

The sheep in this country have no clue what is about to happen. They watch Katie Couric and Wolf Blitzer and think the “RICH” will pay for everything.

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM

why are democrats always so cavalier with other people’s money?

search4truth on November 19, 2009 at 11:28 AM

You support my point — if $787 billion doesn’t change things (though I would argue that the dramatic shift in the direction of the economy since 1Q shows that it has)

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Unemployment was 7%. Now it’s 10%. That is dramatic indeed.

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:28 AM

The cost of doing nothing costs more than doing, um, nothing. – Bleeds Blue

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:28 AM

Well, my senators are…

Harry Reid
John Ensign

so who do I call?

Called my representative, Dina Titus who was against the bill before she was for it.

What can I do?

Jvette on November 19, 2009 at 11:29 AM

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:27 AM

‘Baa!’-Growfins

cmsinaz on November 19, 2009 at 11:29 AM

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Well, I thought this was interesting. Care to comment?

It’s hard to overstate what a big deal this latest proposal is. Basically the bill proposes to end that longstanding design — it proposes to hike Medicare taxes explicitly to pay for non-Medicare spending.
Chuckles3 on November 19, 2009 at 11:22 AM

a capella on November 19, 2009 at 11:29 AM

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:21 AM

My critique is on your point of government “recycling money” grows the economy (i.e., Keynes philosphy). Yes, the size will have less of effect, but government spending is always less efficient and beneficial to the economy.

WashJeff on November 19, 2009 at 11:30 AM

I see one of the resident trolls is at the usual “look over there”. The bottom line is health care “reform” by the democrats has only the goal of increasing government and keeping the democrats in power for the foreseeable future all at the cost of our liberty. Health care will be worse and cost more PERIOD. Anyone who wants to argue with this premise needs to explain why they were willing to pass a blank bill with the details to be filled in later. Control is important not any pesky details like actual health care.

Aviator on November 19, 2009 at 11:31 AM

The spin is excruciating here today, as if 40 billion greenbacks is nothing.

Bishop on November 19, 2009 at 11:31 AM

And a $5/marginal thousand tax increase for the top wage-earners in the country is hardly the stuff of prairie fires and tea-party rallies.

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM

How ’bout that…Bleeds Brains got one right.

Unfortunately, it seems the right is quick to jump to the defense of the uber-rich (who care as little about them as their paid-for politicians) of their own accord.

Dark-Star on November 19, 2009 at 11:32 AM

Mandate higher and new taxes to cover Obama’s new debt and fill in his “double dip” blackhole.

maverick muse on November 19, 2009 at 11:33 AM

For individuals, wages above $200,000 are subject to payroll taxes of 3.4%. That’s a 0.5 percentage point tax increase. So for each $1K you make above $200K, you would pay $5 more in payroll taxes.

It’s $50 not $5.

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:33 AM

Aviator on November 19, 2009 at 11:31 AM

Remember, to Bleeds Blue being forced to do things by your government is freedom. He’s said it in the past. So skew your understanding of him with what he posts.

He doesn’t care that everything in ObamaCare has been done, tried and has failed or is failing somewhere in the world or in this very country. It simply doesn’t matter.

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:33 AM

It’s $50 not $5.

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:33 AM

DOH. Never mind. Hey I was a history major, leave me alone.

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:34 AM

I called my two idiots (Franken and Klobuchar), but a whole hell of a lot of good that will do. I called my rep a couple of weeks ago, too. Rep. Oberstar’s aid was less than impressed with my reasoned argument against this crap.

Thanks a pantload, Northern MN. I’ve got to get out of this hellhole…

AScott on November 19, 2009 at 11:34 AM

This BS needs ro be renamed MadoffCare in honor of the inspiration of the accounting methods used to sell it.

gsherin on November 19, 2009 at 11:04 AM

No kidding. This healthcare “reform” bill will start increased taxes on all types of things right away (2010), but the benefits won’t begin until 2013. Plus, a lot more people are going to be shifted onto Medicaid rolls, and the states are stuck with picking up the bill for that — which means everybody’s state income taxes will be going up, in addition to all the new federal taxes.

But hey, millions of illegal aliens are going to get more taxpayer-funded healthcare when this POS passes, and that’s what really matters, right? Who cares that all the rest of us are going to be paying increased federal and state income taxes; or that we’ll also be paying higher prices for prescription drugs, elective procedures like teeth whitening, and “medical devices” like tampons; or that we’ll also be paying higher health insurance premiums, or that our parents and grandparents will be having their Medicare benefits cut, etc. What matters is that millions of illegal aliens won’t continue to be “deprived” of access to taxpayer-funded healthcare in the U.S. Who cares that the real cost of this bill is trillions of dollars that we don’t have? It’s all about “social justice” — and that’s priceless.

AZCoyote on November 19, 2009 at 11:35 AM

Call me crazy, call it lack of sleep – I just feel like the tide is turning.

gophergirl on November 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM

You’re crazy, and you need more sleep. ;)

Daggett on November 19, 2009 at 11:35 AM

For individuals, wages above $200,000 are subject to payroll taxes of 3.4%. That’s a 0.5 percentage point tax increase. So for each $1K you make above $200K, you would pay $5 more in payroll taxes.

It’s $50 not $5.

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:33 AM

Fuzzy math there, pard.

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:36 AM

Unfortunately, it seems the right is quick to jump to the defense of the uber-rich (who care as little about them as their paid-for politicians) of their own accord.

Dark-Star on November 19, 2009 at 11:32 AM

This bill increases taxes on people making a little over 100k. That’s hardly rich, especially if you’re living in a metro area.

But that misses the point. Eventually they’ll run out of revenue from ‘the rich’. If no one puts a stop to them, pretty soon they’ll be sticking their paws deeper and deeper into your pay check.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 11:36 AM

My critique is on your point of government “recycling money” grows the economy (i.e., Keynes philosphy). Yes, the size will have less of effect, but government spending is always less efficient and beneficial to the economy.

WashJeff on November 19, 2009 at 11:30 AM

Isn’t it amazing how we can pour a gallon of money into the government funnel for recycling and only have a half gallon of the money come out the bottom to use for its intended purpose?

a capella on November 19, 2009 at 11:37 AM

gophergirl on November 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM

Never underestimate the will of people who want to control your lives.

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:37 AM

Maybe the resident Obamazombies can explain to everyone how:

1) increasing taxes on device makers will lower the costs of care and treatment

2) not reforming malpractice/tort law will decrease the costs of medical care

3) how raising taxes on the middle class will increase economic growth and individual liberty

4) how enacting a $1-trillion+ health care takeover by an entity that sends crucial taxpayer funds to congressional districts that don’t exist is going to streamline health care, increase access and decrease costs and bureaucratic incompetence

5) how “free” health care that is going to plunge the nation into a debt hole that guarantees it will be underwater for the next several decades is a “great thing”

6) how increasing regulation, taxes and mandates on individuals, small business, medium-sized businesses and large business is going to “encourage economic growth

7) how “taxing the rich” encourages investment and entrepreneurial activity

Good Lt on November 19, 2009 at 11:02 AM

1. corporations are evil
2. Lawyers are good
3. spreading the wealth around is good for everyone
4. the government means well
5. don’t care as long as it’s free
6. don’t care as long as it’s free
7. rich people are evil

/mindless obamazombie answers

Mark Boabaca on November 19, 2009 at 11:38 AM

Most won’t see that until 2013 at the earliest, by which point it will be far too late.

Seems to me if the benefits/entitlements don’t start rolling out until 2013, we have until late 2012 to repeal any stupid bill the marxists put up. Will have to reform Medicare to do it, since it will be gutted by this bill, but that probably had to happen anyway. Once the entitlements roll out, we are doomed. Entitlements are never rescinded.

Christian Conservative on November 19, 2009 at 11:38 AM

Any more detail you want to add? Or juct clearing your throat?
Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Who left the toilet seat up?

bloviator on November 19, 2009 at 11:39 AM

Dark-Star on November 19, 2009 at 11:32 AM

Uber-rich is $100k these days? Oh how the concept of “rich” has been dumbed down.

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:40 AM

Isn’t it amazing how we can pour a gallon of money into the government funnel for recycling and only have a half gallon of the money come out the bottom to use for its intended purpose?

a capella on November 19, 2009 at 11:37 AM

If the overhead is only 50% it is a really well run government program, sadly.

Aviator on November 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM

Fuzzy math there, pard.

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:36 AM

At least I admitted my mistake. When will Barry admit $800B spent = 5 million lost jobs?

By the way did your wife have a spat with you this morning? You seem more pissy than usual. Or is it that time of the month you lib men get?

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM

Any more detail you want to add? Or juct clearing your throat?

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:23 AM

No, that’s about it. Your post was so full of liberal claptrap and economic illiteracy that I won’t even bother to dissect it and demolish it.

rockmom on November 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM

Uber-rich is $100k these days? Oh how the concept of “rich” has been dumbed down.

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:40 AM

If you’re liberal and poor anyone who makes more than you is uber-rich … and it’s not fair.

Mark Boabaca on November 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM

This bill increases taxes on people making a little over 100k. That’s hardly rich, especially if you’re living in a metro area.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 11:36 AM

<And a $5/marginal thousand tax increase for the top wage-earners in the country

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM

Either some terms need to be more clearly defined, or I’m just plain missing something. Unless making a little over $110K really does place you the top wage-earners in the nation.

Dark-Star on November 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM

It’s only $5 – Leeches just need a little more blood. Just a drop.

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM

Unfortunately, it seems the right is quick to jump to the defense of the uber-rich (who care as little about them as their paid-for politicians) of their own accord.
Dark-Star on November 19, 2009 at 11:32 AM

As if the “uber rich”, outside of trust fund babies and those who married into it, are growing money in the garden out back rather than working for it and earning it.

If a person works their butt off to become uber rich, why is it that their money is somehow tainted to the point that they apparently need less of it?

Bishop on November 19, 2009 at 11:42 AM

Dark-Star on November 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM

Are you schizophrenic?

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:42 AM

Isn’t it amazing how we can pour a gallon of money into the government funnel for recycling and only have a half gallon of the money come out the bottom to use for its intended purpose?

a capella on November 19, 2009 at 11:37 AM

I’ve always said that the real definition of “trickle-down economics” is a billion-dollar government program that produces a million dollars in benefits.

rockmom on November 19, 2009 at 11:42 AM

Unless making a little over $110K really does place you the top wage-earners in the nation.

Dark-Star on November 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM

To a liberal anyone making $1 more than himself is in the top .001% and needs to be taxes at 100%

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:44 AM

I can’t wait until next April when these clowns in Washington see a 50% drop in tax collections. People are simply going to refuse to pay the bills for this massive welfare state.

rockmom on November 19, 2009 at 11:45 AM

If you’re liberal and poor anyone who makes more than you is uber-rich … and it’s not fair.

Mark Boabaca on November 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM

Well, when you sit in Mom’s basement eating Twinkies and hitting the bong all day it just doesn’t seem right when those people who get up and go to work every day get to ride around in a nice car.

Aviator on November 19, 2009 at 11:45 AM

You support my point — if $787 billion doesn’t change things (though I would argue that the dramatic shift in the direction of the economy since 1Q shows that it has)

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Unemployment was 7%. Now it’s 10%. That is dramatic indeed.

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:28 AM

the economy was shrinking at 6% a year. Now it’s growing at 4% a year.

It’s hard to overstate what a big deal this latest proposal is. Basically the bill proposes to end that longstanding design — it proposes to hike Medicare taxes explicitly to pay for non-Medicare spending.
Chuckles3 on November 19, 2009 at 11:22 AM

a capella on November 19, 2009 at 11:29 AM

I’m of two minds on this. Generally speaking, the fact of the tax increase is what’s important, rather than what pocket it’s taken out of. Except for user fees, I don’t dedicated taxes are a good idea. I mean, why not split out the defense budget, the Ag Budget and the interest on the deficit, to name three money streams that particularly annoy me so that we can debate every time one of those taxes goes up a couple of mils on a few folks. And the fact that payroll taxes are regressive (though you could argue that the beneficiaries are disproportionately poor, so it balances) doesn’t thrill me.

It’s my understanding that SS was broken out on the pay stub in the first place as a marketing tool — no one would want their retirement messed with so it would be politically risky for anti government Republicans to attack Social Security funding during one of their periodic deficit-growing tax cutting sprees.

So, bottom line — an irrelevant change of tax strategy rather than an epochal shift.

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:46 AM

But that misses the point. Eventually they’ll run out of revenue from ‘the rich’. If no one puts a stop to them, pretty soon they’ll be sticking their paws deeper and deeper into your pay check.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 11:36 AM

This is the big point – this is going to cost a whole lot more than projected and liberals always start out claiming “oh, if you pass this massive entitlement it won’t cost too much and only the rich will get hit by it”. But the cost always massively balloons and the middle class gets hit. They also seem to ignore the fact that taxing the rich is synonymous with punishing small businesses and those individuals who actually to create and save jobs.

gwelf on November 19, 2009 at 11:47 AM

MSM in July 2008: $4 a gallon gas is making people choose between driving and eating. Damn you BUSH!!

MSM today: What’s an extra couple of $1000s in extra taxes between friends? All Praise Obama.

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:47 AM

buy ammo.

Onager on November 19, 2009 at 11:47 AM

I’m of two minds on this.

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:46 AM

This just in: Bleeds Blue admits to being schizophrenic.

Mark Boabaca on November 19, 2009 at 11:48 AM

Any more detail you want to add? Or juct clearing your throat?

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:23 AM

No, that’s about it. Your post was so full of liberal claptrap and economic illiteracy that I won’t even bother to dissect it and demolish it.

rockmom on November 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM

So, as I suspected, you’re incapable of more than layering cliche atop cliche, and you get defensive when that fact is pointed out.

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 11:48 AM

Bleeds Blue must be the only person in the country who thinks a 50% jump in unemployment = success. Dude, seriously put the kool aid down.

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:48 AM

Are you schizophrenic?

lorien1973 on November 19, 2009 at 11:42 AM

Anyone got a swatter? Seems to be a pesky fly in the room.

Unless making a little over $110K really does place you the top wage-earners in the nation.

Dark-Star on November 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM

To a liberal anyone making $1 more than himself is in the top .001% and needs to be taxes at 100%

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:44 AM

Parroted talking point =/= factual answer.

Dark-Star on November 19, 2009 at 11:49 AM

rockmom on November 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM

Awwww….I was really looking forward to it…

BigWyo on November 19, 2009 at 11:51 AM

And it might work, unless American voters get very vocal with their Senators, right now.

That worked so well with the House.

Bah, these guys are gonna do what they’re gonna do. They have a once-in-several-lifetimes to remake this country into something it’s not supposed to be, and damnitall, they’re going to do it no matter what the costs. And we all know that once something is done in DC, it doesn’t get undone, even if we clear Congress and start again.

I have no faith in the electoral system anymore. Time for alternatives. Actually, it’s well past the time.

Midas on November 19, 2009 at 11:51 AM

BB you haven’t a clue about much and we can add SS taxes to that long and growing list.

Here’s a quick lesson in the basics for you.

The reason it is separate is because you in effect have a SS virtual account with your name on it somewhere. You know that nice little booklet you get every year showing how much you’ve contributed, what your benefits will be, etc? That’s why SS taxes are treated differently than the Ag budget.

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:51 AM

Parroted talking point =/= factual answer.

Dark-Star on November 19, 2009 at 11:49 AM

ooooh he’s like usin’ dem dere fancy signs and everything. He must be one of dem der smart fellers from Noo York City

angryed on November 19, 2009 at 11:53 AM

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