Fred Thompson: “The war in Afghanistan has been lost”

posted at 4:51 pm on November 19, 2009 by Allahpundit

Ace makes a good point in distinguishing this from Reid’s infamous declaration that the war was lost in Iraq: Dingy Harry was aiming at withdrawal, which would have assured the outcome he had in mind, while Fred’s trying to pressure Obama into committing to the war and proving him wrong. Even so, this is a rotten thing to say when troops are in the field, with morale already sagging. But don’t take my word for it. Take Fred Thompson’s:

HANNITY: The biggest battle we have is this war on terror, this battle in Iraq. We have a really deep divide in the country. Senator Reid the war is lost. We still have to finish the job there. Where do you stand in general on the war on terror and, more specifically, in Iraq, and on the divide surrounding Iraq?

THOMPSON: Well, let’s talk about Senator Reid for a moment. Right before I came over here, I was sitting outside, getting a bite to eat, before we did our interview. A young woman [former Army captain] came up and asked if she could sit down and talk to me a minute… I asked her what she thought about this. She said, “How in the world can anyone, any one of our leaders, declare war, declare that the war has been lost when we’ve got troops in the field? My friends are over there in the field. I know what they think about this.”

And, of course, it’s just like all other Americans think. The very idea that they would do this and undercut our efforts over there is unprecedented. And it’s not only unprecedented; it’s awful politics.

Awful politics indeed. That blockquote comes courtesy of Vets for Freedom founder Pete Hegseth, who proceeds to lay Thompson out for his double standard and for jumping the gun:

President Obama may not be many people’s preferred commander in chief, but he is our commander in chief. He still may commit sufficient resources to Afghanistan, and it’s almost certain that his generals will support additional troop levels. Our warriors will take the fight to the enemy, and hopefully turn the tide in Afghanistan.

The war is not lost, but it could be lost; especially if our political leaders, and political commentators, start making statements like this. There may be a point at which the war in Afghanistan is no longer worth pursuing, but it’s certainly not before the president announces his decision on troop levels and our top-tier generals are given a chance to execute a counterinsurgency strategy.

I assume Fred said this now rather than later precisely because Obama hasn’t made his decision yet; if the GOP’s going to pressure him on troop levels, there’s no logic in waiting until after he’s given the orders. But let’s say the gambit fails and The One ends up giving McChrystal only 25,000 of the 40,000 troops he asked for. What are soldiers stationed in Afghanistan, some of whom are undoubtedly Thompson fans, supposed to do with his declaration of defeat then? McChrystal will be trying to rally them to believe that they can do the job even though they’re shorthanded — and meanwhile here’s a leading conservative telling them that they can’t, that they’re fighting for a lost cause. Terrific.

Update: Commenters are arguing that if we’re only going to fight at half-strength, to “lose with honor,” then we’re better off bringing everyone home and saving some American lives. That’s a noble sentiment — I’m sure I’ve said it before myself — but the hard, cold fact of the matter is that bringing them home isn’t an option that’s being considered. McChrystal’s either going to get the troops he wants or some fraction thereof, and he’ll have to try to secure the country with what he’s got. Which way do righties want to play it going forward? Trying to win with the resources available or sporadically telling the troops who’ll have to fight the rest of this war under tough conditions that they’re destined to lose?

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3

Paging csdeven…. your presence is requested on this thread for an “I told you so” session.

fiatboomer on November 19, 2009 at 4:53 PM

Finally, somebody has said it. Thanks, Barry.

bloggless on November 19, 2009 at 4:53 PM

Obama lost the war

faraway on November 19, 2009 at 4:53 PM

Obama blew the elections

faraway on November 19, 2009 at 4:53 PM

Who lost Afghanistan……….?

JoeinTX on November 19, 2009 at 4:55 PM

President Obama is losing the war with his inaction. The war is not lost.

Stupid, stupid thing for Fred to say and no real way to defend it.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 4:56 PM

Wrong Said Fred.

Mike Honcho on November 19, 2009 at 4:57 PM

Despite the Dithering, We Mustn’t Quit the Fight in Afghanistan
Max Boot

Very on point, responding directly to Thompson-like statements today from Tony Blankley, correctly predicting that this theme would be heard more and more.

McCain said something like this just the other day, too, saying he’s rather bring ‘em home than have a halfway escalation.

CK MacLeod on November 19, 2009 at 4:57 PM

Oh geez Allahpundit! Please read Fred’s entire commentary.

Oink on November 19, 2009 at 4:57 PM

Obama lost the war

faraway on November 19, 2009 at 4:53 PM

No, America lost the war by electing Obama. At least we need to place the blame where it really belongs. Obama didn’t become president all by himself, you know. Elections have consequences, and this is one of them.

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 4:57 PM

“The war in Afghanistan has been lost.”

Change to “Obama lost the war in Afganistan.

JellyToast on November 19, 2009 at 4:58 PM

Oh geez Allahpundit! Please read Fred’s entire commentary.

Oink on November 19, 2009 at 4:57 PM

Yeah, we get what Fred was trying to say. What he actually said was that the war has been lost. It’s a very stupid statement.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 4:58 PM

McCain said something like this just the other day, too, saying he’s rather bring ‘em home than have a halfway escalation.

Yes, and that’s a noble sentiment, but bringing ‘em home isn’t really an option. So we can either try to win with a modest troop increase or start telling the troops who are going to be fighting the rest of this war that they’re destined to lose. Which is better?

Allahpundit on November 19, 2009 at 4:59 PM

Change to “Obama lost the war in Afganistan.

JellyToast on November 19, 2009 at 4:58 PM

President Obama is losing the war. The war is not lost, and all the nancies here need to stop pretending it is.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:00 PM

Our military doesn’t lose wars. Our soldiers will win every fight they’re in. It’s only in Washington where idiots screw them over. FRICK! I think your caveats are accurate, AP, but Fred should know better. Pray for our troops, the morons in D.C. are really screwing things up. Fred, keep your mouth shut, and Obama MAKE A FRICKIN DECISION AND PROVE FRED WRONG!

Weight of Glory on November 19, 2009 at 5:00 PM

Obama has failed at every single initiative:
- Afghan war
- close Gitmo
- save/create millions of jobs
- keep unemployment below 8%

He makes great photos though. And a nice doggy.

faraway on November 19, 2009 at 5:00 PM

Fred acted stupidly.

John the Libertarian on November 19, 2009 at 5:00 PM

Yeah, we get what Fred was trying to say. What he actually said was that the war has been lost. It’s a very stupid statement.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 4:58 PM

I know we conservitives are prone to supporting the troops no matter what, but tell me why you think this is stupid. Leaving our tropps there without a national commitment to win, now that’s stupid. do you think Obama is goking to be tougher than Russia was on Afghanistan? Me neither.

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:02 PM

Many of us have been saying this…people wanted me off the site for stating the obvious.
If Obama does not fully commit himself to winning the war, then it is lost, and we need to pull out…all that we will have are dying soldiers in an unnamed street, for political purposes and a few votes.
If he and congress commits themselves to the war and turn it over to the generals, then we can win…but he won’t, so we have by default lost.
Not because our military can’t do the job, not because our soldiers aren’t trained…but because a liberal congress doesn’t have the guts and stamina it takes to win a war.
Say what you will about President Bush…he stuck by our military, made mistakes, corrected them and against most every poll, every paper, every journalist, every liberal, every democrat, and many Republicans, he stuck it out backed the generals, and at great cost to him personally, we succeeded on the battlefield and established and is building a free country.
Obama does not have the will power, the political know-how, the desire, the intellect, the leadership, to ever win a war, ever…we need to pull out because Obama is a loser, not our military.

right2bright on November 19, 2009 at 5:02 PM

People need to be careful about how they word things when we have people over there fighting. And the truth is no one is really talking about bringing the troops home, so far as I know. The truth is we need to at least try to win it, for the sake of the men and women serving.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:03 PM

I really dont think FRED is saying it’s lost. Just pointign out that Big O is losing it, wether on purpose or just by dithering. He clearly states “it doesn’t have to be this way”

mgman on November 19, 2009 at 5:03 PM

Allah ripping Palin. Allah ripping Thompson.

Feels like the fall of 2008 all over again.

fogw on November 19, 2009 at 5:03 PM

Both Iraq and Afghanistan were lost last November.

ddrintn on November 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM

Allah ripping Palin. Allah ripping Thompson.

Feels like the fall of 2008 all over again.

fogw on November 19, 2009 at 5:03 PM

Allah’s blog feels a lot like a campaign.

faraway on November 19, 2009 at 5:05 PM

I know we conservitives are prone to supporting the troops no matter what, but tell me why you think this is stupid. Leaving our tropps there without a national commitment to win, now that’s stupid.

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:02 PM

Our troops aren’t leaving any time soon. And statements like Fred’s don’t help our guys on the ground know that their country is behind them, even if their President isn’t.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:05 PM

Shouldn’t have said it, bottom line.

changer1701 on November 19, 2009 at 5:05 PM

We never should have occupied Afghanistan. Should have bombed the hell out of the place, sent troops in to kill as many Taliban/AQ as we could in a month or so, and got out, while leaving a message behind: “There’s plenty more where that came from, goat-bangers.”

Instead, we’ve sacrificed the lives of 800+ American soldiers (not to mention billions of American dollars) to hand freedom on a platter to a population which, for the most part, does not appreciate it and sacrificed nothing to get it.

The tough question is what now? I hate the thought of leaving now, as that is an implicit admission that all those lives were sacrificed for a mistake. But the only apparent alternative is to continue sacrificing American lives and dollars in the hope that someday Afghanistan can become what they have never been in all of history — a stable democracy.

(Deep sigh.)

Splashman on November 19, 2009 at 5:05 PM

Yeah, we get what Fred was trying to say. What he actually said was that the war has been lost. It’s a very stupid statement.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 4:58 PM

And under Obama it is…you cannot come up with a realistic scenario that Obama would entertain that would lead to victory 4 or 6 years down the road. Do you honestly think Obama could take the heat the President Bush did?
Reid said we lost because we weren’t capable, or military couldn’t…Thompson is saying that under Obama, the war is lost, and you won’t be able to convince anyone that Obama can and will win this war…

right2bright on November 19, 2009 at 5:06 PM

fogw on November 19, 2009 at 5:03 PM

Thompson deserves to be ripped. He’s doing the same crap Harry Reid did back in 2007.

“But that’s not his intention!”

Doesn’t matter what his intention is. Hurting you might not be my intention by punching you in the arm, but that doesn’t mean you hurt any less.

amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:06 PM

Wordsmithing is something Fred Thompson, actor and politician, should excel at. Maybe he, too, needs a teleprompter, unless he intentionally wants to drive another stake in the heart of morale in the AfPak theatre.

Robert17 on November 19, 2009 at 5:07 PM

Here’s another foriegn policy issue for “Teh Won” to punt.

Mike Honcho on November 19, 2009 at 5:07 PM

that their country is behind them, even if their President isn’t.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:05 PM

You seem to forget the “president” is the Commander in Chief, he is the military, he decides who, what, and where.
Without this presidents commitment, the war is lost…and can you tell me how deep his commitment is?

right2bright on November 19, 2009 at 5:08 PM

Regardless of his intention, Fred was stupid to say that particular combination of words. And I don’t mean a little bit stupid; I mean BIG stupid.

Splashman on November 19, 2009 at 5:08 PM

Yeah, we get what Fred was trying to say. What he actually said was that the war has been lost. It’s a very stupid statement.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 4:58 PM

I know we conservitives are prone to supporting the troops no matter what, but tell me why you think this is stupid. Leaving our tropps there without a national commitment to win, now that’s stupid. do you think Obama is goking to be tougher than Russia was on Afghanistan? Me neither.

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:02 PM

During my two tours in Vietnam the United States Military won every campaign and was never beaten, yet we lost the war . . . not because of our soldiers but because of the politicians. Now, the same thing is happening in Afghanistan. When the military wins and the nation loses it is because of a disease within the body politic.

rplat on November 19, 2009 at 5:09 PM

Afghanistan is easy if we watually want to stop the devistation is causes. Agenty Orange on the poppy fields and it’s over. The hard to swallow truth is that we have good men and women dying there to protect the world’s opium production. Kill that and the Taliban is toast.

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

People need to be careful about how they word things when we have people over there fighting. And the truth is no one is really talking about bringing the troops home, so far as I know. The truth is we need to at least try to win it, for the sake of the men and women serving.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:03 PM

But Obama isn’t interested in winning. He’s interested in preserving what’s left of his political capital.

He’s been told by the experts what they need. He does not have the will to fight for it and do the right thing.

He wants to mitigate damage to himself and doesn’t care about the mission. When you have a president who dismisses what the experts say and try to gin up a politically correct, weak variation that will fail…it doesn’t matter how committed our troops are or how honorable their service is.

Their CoC disrespects them, weakens the mission and forces defeat all to make himself not look bad to the left.

And in the end, there is no other result but losing.

powerpro on November 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

Thompson deserves to be ripped. He’s doing the same crap Harry Reid did back in 2007.

Reid said it after the Iraq war was won. I do think Thompson should not have said it.

Jed_Eckert on November 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

McChrystal will be trying to rally them to believe that they can do the job even though they’re shorthanded — and meanwhile here’s a leading conservative telling them that they can’t, that they’re fighting for a lost cause. Terrific.

Well, you know, the truth sucks sometimes. But that still doesn’t mean it ain’t the truth. And I don’t think the warriors in the field really need to depend on somebody living in Northern Virginia to tell them what the deal is–they perhaps have already scoped that one out.

It should not be up to the warriors in Afghanistan to pull of an Agincourt when we in fact do have ten thousand (and more) who this day do no work. At least when Grant was stymied before the trenches of Petersburg he had everything that Lincoln could possibly send him. So yes, perhaps they could pull it off in Afghanistan–but I think it is time we as nation had a come to Jesus moment on things like this, so in that sense the issue goes far beyond the morale of the warriors in the field, or even if we win there or not. We simply need to decide whether this nation is going to be of unified purpose on anything ever again, and we need to decide now. And thus I thank the Senator, for he has done more good work this day than all others have in the last ten months.

Horatius on November 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

We never should have occupied Afghanistan. Should have bombed the hell out of the place, sent troops in to kill as many Taliban/AQ as we could in a month or so, and got out, while leaving a message behind: “There’s plenty more where that came from, goat-bangers.”

Splashman:

That is colorful imagery. If we had done that, they would have come right back in there. Do you know anything about Afghanistan? Between the Russians and the Taliban there was not much of the country that had not been bombed in the 20 years preceding 9/11 and all that accomplished was to bring AlQaida in, not keep them out.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

Fah, bring the troops home and then carpet bomb the region into a nice flat desert.

I agree with Fred that Obama lacks the backbone to win.

“Nuke the thing from Orbit, only way to be sure…”

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on November 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

Doesn’t matter what his intention is. Hurting you might not be my intention by punching you in the arm, but that doesn’t mean you hurt any less.

amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:06 PM

Thompson made the mistake assuming that people would intelligently understand his stance…obvious by the posts he was wrong. He needs to lower his expectations, and talk to people like the NYT does.
If you think what he said is the same as Reid, in the same context, then you are not who he was talking to.

right2bright on November 19, 2009 at 5:11 PM

EL

It would not have worked, they would have just moved to the caves and made their plans.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:11 PM

It would have been more accurate to say that Obama is losing Afghanistan, but unless he commits sufficient resources necessary to win, it will be lost, and since he seems disinclined to do so, instead committing himself to failure even while leaving our troops in harms way, he is sacrificing their lives to avoid the political consequences of withdrawal.

Fight to win or get out and take your lumps, Obama. Your political ambitions are not worth a toe, let alone a life.

FloatingRock on November 19, 2009 at 5:11 PM

Thompson deserves to be ripped. He’s doing the same crap Harry Reid did back in 2007.

amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:06 PM

Have you people listened to what he said on the video clip? He’s saying Obama has lost this war because of his inaction. He’s trying to drive the point home that Obama should get off of his cowardice butt, show some courage and make a decision.

Fred Thompson is no Harry Reid. Get serious.

fogw on November 19, 2009 at 5:12 PM

Fred acted stupidly.

John the Libertarian on November 19, 2009 at 5:00 PM

LOL!!

KeepOhioRed on November 19, 2009 at 5:12 PM

I don’t think Fred is ever going to run for President again.

I think what he’s basically doing is baiting the media and Obama acolytes into telling him its terrible to say these sort of things.

Cue Harry Reid footage.

IT’S A TRAP!

In other words.

BKennedy on November 19, 2009 at 5:13 PM

Jed_Eckert on November 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

All do respect, Reid made the statement before we had even finished deploying the units that would take part in the surge. He made the statement in April ’07. Only three of five brigades had been deployed at the time.

amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:13 PM

I never thought I’d see the day when commenters here would be agreeing that the war is lost while we’re still fighting it.

Conservatives and independants are the only thing keeping President Obama from giving the fight up completely. His base certainly doesn’t support the war. If the only groups holding his feet to the fire start peeling away, it will ensure the war will be lost. We’ll have thousands of guys there for years with no defined mission, inadequate resources, and a very painful lack of support back home.

I get what Fred was trying to say – that President Obama is losing the war – but he actually said the war is lost. And people are agreeing with him!

My unit’s a half a year out from a deployment, and the comments in this thread aren’t exactly reassuring.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:13 PM

I am afraid Fred is right; The war was lost when Barack “Dithering Fool” Obama won the election.

Norwegian on November 19, 2009 at 5:14 PM

powerpro:

I am not saying Obama is interested in winning, I am saying that the rest of us need to keep faith with these people who are risking their lives for their country. No matter what some faithless politician says.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:14 PM

It’s one thing for a private citizen with a nominally successful radio show to say (with some caveats) that a war is lost.

It is a different thing for the majority leader (who has much influence over funding) to proclaim a war is lost.

Sure, it’s a mouthfart on Fred’s part that didn’t need said right now, but it is WAY less damaging than what Reid said.

innominatus on November 19, 2009 at 5:14 PM

Afghanistan was, is, and probably will always be a giant-size clusterf**k of mountainous hidey-holes and Turd-World goatherders subscribing to a bloodthirsty religion. You can’t ‘win’ unless you put a soldier every ten feet across the whole darn nation – occupying dirt in that bolthole will do jack squat.

When we finally get our heads out of our arses and leave, we will be the second superpower that got a royal runaround there, all to no avail.

Dark-Star on November 19, 2009 at 5:14 PM

not because of our soldiers but because of the politicians. Now, the same thing is happening in Afghanistan. When the military wins and the nation loses it is because of a disease within the body politic.

rplat on November 19, 2009 at 5:09 PM

Good summation…Reid was stating the fact after our military had victory, or victory was imminent and Reid was being a political hack.
Thompson is saying that this is lost because Obama and his cronies don’t care…
Others should read what you wrote, and learn to understand what Thompson was stating.

right2bright on November 19, 2009 at 5:15 PM

I get what Fred was trying to say – that President Obama is losing the war – but he actually said the war is lost. And people are agreeing with him!

My unit’s a half a year out from a deployment, and the comments in this thread aren’t exactly reassuring.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:13 PM

I think some people are more focused on the politics, than the war.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:15 PM

Have you people listened to what he said on the video clip? He’s saying Obama has lost this war because of his inaction. He’s trying to drive the point home that Obama should get off of his cowardice butt, show some courage and make a decision.

Fred Thompson is no Harry Reid. Get serious.

fogw on November 19, 2009 at 5:12 PM

Well, that’s fantastic. Maybe Thompson can get a job at the Good Intentions Paving Company after his current gig.

It doesn’t matter why he said the war was lost. The fact of the matter is he said it’s been lost.

Let’s try another frame of reference, shall we? How about if Fred Thompson says Sarah Palin is a blithering idiot, but his intention is to drive her to pursue even further knowledge of policy issues so she can defeat Obama in future debates. Not to actually say she’s an idiot.

Better?

amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:15 PM

Thompson made the mistake assuming that people would intelligently understand his stance…obvious by the posts he was wrong.

right2bright on November 19, 2009 at 5:11 PM

Everyone who sees this on an airport television, or in a waiting room, will see “Fred Thompson: ‘The war in Afghanistan has been lost’.”

It doesn’t matter what he meant to say. What he said is damaging.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:17 PM

Stupid thing for Fred to say. He should retract it or clarify it.

Having said that, it should be interesting to see how the Left tries comparing what a radio talk show says with what the Senate Majority Leader said. The two aren’t exactly the same but I have no doubt Thompson will be the one condemned. Not Dingy.

Del Dolemonte on November 19, 2009 at 5:17 PM

During my two tours in Vietnam the United States Military won every campaign and was never beaten, yet we lost the war . . . not because of our soldiers but because of the politicians. Now, the same thing is happening in Afghanistan. When the military wins and the nation loses it is because of a disease within the body politic.

rplat on November 19, 2009 at 5:09 PM

Ask yourself this; If you could go back to sometime in the mid 1960′s, and knew that politics was going to cause the war to be lost no matter how hard the tropps fought, would you leave them there anyway, or pull them out?

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:17 PM

tropps=troops

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:17 PM

Thompson is saying that this is lost because Obama and his cronies don’t care…
Others should read what you wrote, and learn to understand what Thompson was stating.

right2bright on November 19, 2009 at 5:15 PM

I think he is wrong. I refuse to believe that the war is lost and I think that Fred is more interested in putting the screws to Obama than he is in how this might impact the troops are most certainly going to have fight this war.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:18 PM

Radio talk show HOST.

Del Dolemonte on November 19, 2009 at 5:18 PM

Why is no-one mentioning the ROE? I don’t care how good the troops are – if they are not allowed to kill the enemy.

OldEnglish on November 19, 2009 at 5:18 PM

It doesn’t matter what he meant to say. What he said is damaging.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:17 PM

Why? To Who? How so?

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:19 PM

I think some people are more focused on the politics, than the war.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:15 PM

It’s infuriating to see from people who get pissed off when Democrats play politics with our guys lives.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:19 PM

So if Dear Leader has no intention on winning, what would one call the situation?

Zippy_Slug on November 19, 2009 at 5:20 PM

Ask yourself this; If you could go back to sometime in the mid 1960’s, and knew that politics was going to cause the war to be lost no matter how hard the tropps fought, would you leave them there anyway, or pull them out?

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:17 PM

Ask yourself this, if we pull out will AlQaida just get bored and go away? Or will we end up back over there in the not too distant future?

We are acting as if this is all elective, as if there is no real enemy, as if we could just quit and come home and all this unpleasantness would go away.

I have been watching a series on History this week, WW2 in HD. They are finally starting to show the bodies. Thousands of men dead on beaches, in trenches, decomposing masses of flesh in tons of rubble..and we say this war is lost. We lost more men in a day in that war than we have in years in Afghanistan. And we are here, ready to pack it in and move on.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Commenters are arguing that if we’re only going to fight at half-strength, to “lose with honor,” then we’re better off bringing everyone home and saving some American lives. That’s a noble sentiment — I’m sure I’ve said it before myself — but the hard, cold fact of the matter is that bringing them home isn’t an option that’s being considered. McChrystal’s either going to get the troops he wants or some fraction thereof, and he’ll have to try to secure the country with what he’s got. Which way do righties want to play it going forward? Trying to win with the resources available or sporadically telling the troops who’ll have to fight the rest of this war under tough conditions that they’re destined to lose?

I am sympathetic towards that sentiment and think it’s more right than wrong.

Nevertheless, how do we go about getting Obama to do the right thing? Right now he’s showing absolutely no stomach for making any decision, much less the one necessary to win the war, and troop morale is collapsing because of it.

People here can argue whether Fred was right or wrong in his approach to this, but he’s rock solid in attributing the responsibility for the mess to Obama. He’s the commander in chief, and it’s his job to make these hard decisions, and instead he’s simply just dithered on this issue while the situation in Afghanistan deteriorates.

thirteen28 on November 19, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Why? To Who? How so?

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:19 PM

When this is splashed across CNN, MSNBC, and every other Obama apologist channel:

Republican Thompson: War in Afghanistan Is Lost

That’s what will get across and be remembered. And then the narrative will become:

Even staunch conservatives like Fred Thompson are saying the war is lost. Why are we going to send more troops to a battle even conservatives are admitting we’ve lost?

And so on.

amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Let’s try another frame of reference, shall we? How about if Fred Thompson says Sarah Palin is a blithering idiot, but his intention is to drive her to pursue even further knowledge of policy issues so she can defeat Obama in future debates. Not to actually say she’s an idiot.

Better?

amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:15 PM

No.

Thompson has always been pro-military, and the troops are aware of that. Why, they may even be smart enough to understand Thompson’s point here.

Obama OTOH, has always been anti-military, as evidenced by his dithering while our troops shed blood.

fogw on November 19, 2009 at 5:22 PM

It’s infuriating to see from people who get pissed off when Democrats play politics with our guys lives.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:19 PM

What you seem to be missing is that we are losing the war BECAUSE democrats are playing politcs with our guys lives. I want thatto stop, you seem to want to let it ride.

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:22 PM

It’s infuriating to see from people who get pissed off when Democrats play politics with our guys lives.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:19 PM

I agree, especially when you stop and think that they know better. At least the Democrats can honestly claim to be stupid about things like national security.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:23 PM

Two things that could have been said:

If Obama keeps goin’ like this, the war in Afghanistan is lost.

Good. It puts the pressure on Obama, and clearly states that the potential still exists to successfully resolve this conflict.

The war in Afghanistan is lost.

Bad. It means nobody can fix it. Hopelessness. Defeat. It doesn’t help anything, and it kills morale. Cronkite, 1968.

*sigh* Sorry Fred, but this one’s a strike for you.

MadisonConservative on November 19, 2009 at 5:23 PM

The war isn’t lost and we can still avoid losing.

Obama however does not mind doing what most would consider losing or doing just enough to say we tried and pulling out with no real gains for the lives lost.

aikidoka on November 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM

fogw on November 19, 2009 at 5:22 PM

And I’m sure his true motivation for saying the war is lost will get across the media looking to give Obama cover to withdraw from Afghanistan entirely. I’m sure they’ll fit in, “but Thompson is only saying this because he thinks more troops need to be committed immediately.”

Because if there’s one thing we know about the media, it’s that they’ll give the full context of and motivation for statements by conservatives that seem to help liberal arguments.

amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM

MikeA:

If we lose and then pull out, the Democrats have gotten just what they want. If people do not care about the national security implications of failure, maybe partisan politics would make them think twice before throwing in the towel.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM

It doesn’t matter why he said the war was lost. The fact of the matter is he said it’s been lost.

amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:15 PM

Of course it matter why.

FloatingRock on November 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:17 PM

Afghanistan’s at a critical point, much like Iraq was before the surge. You remind me of the quitters who wanted to give up back then.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM

I don’t think Fred is ever going to run for President again.

I think what he’s basically doing is baiting the media and Obama acolytes into telling him its terrible to say these sort of things.

Cue Harry Reid footage.

IT’S A TRAP!

In other words.

BKennedy on November 19, 2009 at 5:13 PM

Which has nothing to do with the real issue, which is that we have people over their risking, and sometimes losing, their lives for this cause that Thompson just called “lost”.

stldave on November 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM

Yeah, because after months of watching their woefully inept Commander in Chief fart around and refuse to provide them with the troops they need to secure a victory, our soldiers are suddenly going to have their morale utterly crushed by one quote from Fred Thompson.

Get real. The soldiers already see what’s going on and people like Fred Thompson calling a spade a spade can only either accelerate the troop increase, or cause Obama to declare defeat and pull everyone out. Both of which would be better than what’s going on right now.

World B. Free on November 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM

powerpro:

I am not saying Obama is interested in winning, I am saying that the rest of us need to keep faith with these people who are risking their lives for their country. No matter what some faithless politician says.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:14 PM

I have faith in our troops…in their resolve and determination and passion and courage.

But Obama has no problem letting them sit there in the middle of a shooting gallery while he traipses off to Asia on a “look at me” tour. He doesn’t care about them and I’d rather us acknowledge that if he’s not willing to have the courage or resolve to take care of business, then we need to push for our troops to come home.

And I’m disgusted on every level for having to say that.

But this manchild disgraces and dishonors them and will only do what’s right if he feels to not do it would make him look bad.

So hopefully being mocked and goaded endlessly by Cheney and Thompson and Palin and who knows who else…he’ll be forced to provide our men and women what they need to be victorious.

But like Fred, I’ve seen nothing in this person’s character to suggest he will.

powerpro on November 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM

I think he’s right. So was Cheney. The ‘dithering’ has already killed he momentum.

AnninCA on November 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM

What will Palin say?

faraway on November 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM

Okay I listened again…I do not know where you guys think Thompson is saying anything but, Obama does not have the will power, or the desire to win this war…listen again to the first 45 seconds, only really listen.
Now listen to the next 30 seconds…and you will see, it didn’t have to be that way, but Obama and his group wanted it that way.

right2bright on November 19, 2009 at 5:25 PM

Even staunch conservatives like Fred Thompson are saying the war is lost. Why are we going to send more troops to a battle even conservatives are admitting we’ve lost?
amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Good point. And why would we send more troops to a battle that we are “not interested in winning”, as Obama has already said.

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:25 PM

Floating Rock:

No, it does not matter, not really. The point is the war is not lost.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:25 PM

¡FRED!

¿FRED?

mad saint jack on November 19, 2009 at 5:25 PM

What you seem to be missing is that we are losing the war BECAUSE democrats are playing politcs with our guys lives. I want thatto stop, you seem to want to let it ride.

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:22 PM

I agree that we’re LOSING the war because of politics. Fred said it’s lost. Big difference.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:25 PM

Even staunch conservatives like Fred Thompson are saying the war is lost. Why are we going to send more troops to a battle even conservatives are admitting we’ve lost?
amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Hell yes, let’s give it back to AlQaida. This is nuts.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:26 PM

Of course it matter why.

FloatingRock on November 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM

No, it really doesn’t. The fact he said the war is lost will get splashed across the screen as families sit down for dinner. The media will use it to set the narrative that the war is already lost, as evidence by even conservatives saying so.

It only matters to the political class interested in taking time to understand why he’s saying what he’s saying. Otherwise it’ll just be used by the media to help further the liberal argument that we shouldn’t send additional troops. Because really, why send troops to a fight we’ve already lost?

amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:26 PM

First great sentiment I’ve ever seem from Fred Thompson. Bring the troops home, if the people feel we have wasted enough blood and treasure.

The Dean on November 19, 2009 at 5:27 PM

I’m slightly befuddled on this. Why does anyone give a rat’s butt about what Fred Thompson has to say about anything? He had a chance to be taken seriously and proved that actually doesn’t take politics very seriously any more.

Bleeds Blue on November 19, 2009 at 5:28 PM

It doesn’t matter what he meant to say. What he said is damaging.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:17 PM

If the press doesn’t accurately report the context of what he said, leading to misunderstanding, it doesn’t alter the substance of Fred’s point, it’s just more bad reporting.

Certainly he could have said it better, but aside from the “…has been lost” quote, what did Fred say that you disagree with?

FloatingRock on November 19, 2009 at 5:28 PM

*sigh* Sorry Fred, but this one’s a strike for you.

MadisonConservative on November 19, 2009 at 5:23 PM

Only if you truly think Obama has the will power or the desire to challenge a 4+ year war…if you think that, great then you are right.
But Fred clearly states in the first 45 seconds that he feels (as I do) that Obama does not have the will power or desire to win a war, and the enemy knows that.
I know you don’t think Obama has that desire…so your choice of words would be a PC choice, don’t state the obvious?

right2bright on November 19, 2009 at 5:29 PM

But Obama has no problem letting them sit there in the middle of a shooting gallery while he traipses off to Asia on a “look at me” tour. He doesn’t care about them and I’d rather us acknowledge that if he’s not willing to have the courage or resolve to take care of business, then we need to push for our troops to come home.

And I’m disgusted on every level for having to say that.

But this manchild disgraces and dishonors them and will only do what’s right if he feels to not do it would make him look bad.

So, it is all about Obama? Forget AlQaida, they don’t matter. Forget all the years and loss. Forget the promises we made to the people who fought along side us. Forget about all the Afghanis who risked their lives to be our friend. Obama is dithering, hence we hand Afghanistan to AlQaida and the Taliban and walk away. No worry, as long as we can blame it on Obama. That is so wrong.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:29 PM

Afghanistan’s at a critical point, much like Iraq was before the surge. You remind me of the quitters who wanted to give up back then.

BadgerHawk on November 19, 2009 at 5:24 PM

Im not into the liberal thing. I’d gladly kill every man, woman and child in Afghanistan, to prevent a single American death. If Obama is somehow becomeing a strong CINC and orders an all out effort to win, I am wrong. Otherwise, we need to get the hell out of there and wait until after 2012 to go clean up the mess when we have a leader with the sack to do it.

MikeA on November 19, 2009 at 5:30 PM

That is colorful imagery. If we had done that, they would have come right back in there. Do you know anything about Afghanistan? Between the Russians and the Taliban there was not much of the country that had not been bombed in the 20 years preceding 9/11 and all that accomplished was to bring AlQaida in, not keep them out.

Terrye on November 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM

Yes, I do know Afghanistan’s history, and that is why it is so foolish to be spending our lives and money in an attempt to achieve what has never been achieved.

I’m well aware that the results of a quick-in/quick-out campaign would be limited. My point is that our sacrifice would be limited as well. Even if we had to do the same thing again every single year, it would still be a better strategy than what we are doing now. Right now, while our soldiers are targets, Afghans are just as corrupt as they ever were, and that will not change in five years or a hundred. Quite simply, they do not deserve our sacrifice.

Our goal should be to prevent Afghanistan from becoming a serious threat. It is true that without boots on the ground our intelligence capability is limited and we cannot target individuals the way we can now. However, keeping boots on the ground long-term requires significant long-term sacrifice, which I assert is not a good investment. We possess the technology to destroy, with relative impunity, any significant target in any country in the world, with no boots on the ground at all. We could destroy training camps, poppy fields, gov’t buildings, weapons caches, etc. No, we can’t shut AQ/Taliban down entirely with this strategy, but we can make it uneconomical for them while preserving much more valuable American lives. Don’t you agree?

Splashman on November 19, 2009 at 5:30 PM

It depends on how the word”Lost” is used.
We won the ground war in VietNam. But lost the over all war.
It should be a law that every politicians children have to serve 3 tours in any current war zone.
It’s easy for someone that sits in a big office and steals tax payers by calling him/herself a congresman/senator to make really stupid decisions re-guarding someone Else’s life.
Thompson was right in the sense, that with this coward in charge, the war is lost.
Barry should be charges with murder for every solider that died in combat after he took office.

BruceB on November 19, 2009 at 5:30 PM

The Dean on November 19, 2009 at 5:27 PM

Thompson opposed Fannie and Freddie. Late last year he said:

Our Founding Fathers knew more than a little bit about human nature. It is one reason why in the Constitution, the federal government was given certain delineated powers and no others. I hate to burst another bubble, but our government simply doesn’t have the authority or the capability to be the guarantor or insurer of our every need or desire.

Didn’t you agree with that?

amerpundit on November 19, 2009 at 5:30 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3