The definition of “show trial”

posted at 1:36 pm on November 18, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Jim Geraghty transcribes an exchange this afternoon between Senator Charles Grassley (R-IA) and Attorney General Eric Holder on the administration’s commitment to the federal court system.  Holder had previously insisted that the federal court system gave the government its best opportunity to convict Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, although he failed to explain how he reached that conclusion.  When Grassley challenges Holder to explain how the administration would react to an acquittal or dismissal of the charges, Holder says it wouldn’t change anything:

Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa: “I don’t think you can say that failure to convict is not an option, when we have juries in this country.”

Attorney General Eric Holder: I have thought about that possibility. Congress has passed legislation that would not allow the release of these individuals in this country. If there is not a successful conclusion to this trial, that would not mean that this person would be released into this country…

Grassley: My understanding is that if for some reason he’s not convicted, or a judge lets him off on a technicallity, he’ll be an enemy combatant, so you’re right back where you started.

Not only will we be right back where we started, it will expose the federal trial as nothing more than a show trial.  Show trials are conducted by despots and dictators to give only a thin veneer of legality to political detentions and executions.  If the state isn’t prepared to abide by the decision of the court, including dismissals and acquittals, then the use of the trial system is worse than useless.  It demeans the federal system needed for Americans to seek unbiased justice.

Lest we forget that dismissals could be a big problem with a KSM trial, Andy McCarthy reminds us of the Moussaoui trial and its circus atmosphere:

More importantly, though, Senator Durbin and the attorney general fail to point out that the Moussaoui trial was a three-ring circus, that the district judge actually tried to dismiss the indictment, and that we don’t know what would have happened had Moussaoui not surprised everyone by pleading guilty. When the Court of Appeals reinstated the Moussaoui indictment, it also said it was sensitive to the trial judge’s concerns and would look very carefully to ensure that the government made available to Moussaoui all the information he needed to present his defense. What would have happened if Moussaoui had continued to press his demand for access to classified information and testimony from al-Qaeda captives like KSM? We don’t know.

If Moussaoui is their shining example of how well the civilian courts handle international terrorism cases during wartime, they’re in trouble.

In fact, Jon Kyl used Andy’s columns to rebut Holder during his testimony.  McCarthy helped with the trial of the 1993 World Trade Center terrorist attack, exactly the kind of trial Holder wants to conduct again, but Holder dismisses Andy as a polemicist who just wants “fodder for the talk shows.”  One might think that Holder would have more respect for a man with a lot more experience at handling the prosecution of terrorists than Holder himself has.

As James Joyner also concludes, it’s impossible to see Holder’s assertion that the US will detain KSM no matter what the court finds as anything other than an endorsement for “a show trial and a sham.”

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

Holder had previously insisted that the federal court system gave the government its best opportunity to convict Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, although he failed to explain how he reached that conclusion.

Nor did he mention that KSM was pleading guilty in the trial that was already underway when Obama halted it on his first day in office. He’d already be convicted by now.

Jon Kyl is hammering him on it.

Pablo on November 18, 2009 at 1:40 PM

Why is this article accompanied by an upside down picture of Don King?

LibTired on November 18, 2009 at 1:41 PM

Show trials are conducted by despots and dictators to give only a thin veneer of legality to political detentions and executions.

Exactly.

WashJeff on November 18, 2009 at 1:41 PM

These trials are restoring America’s values – Bleeds Blue.

BadgerHawk on November 18, 2009 at 1:42 PM

Showgirls?

faraway on November 18, 2009 at 1:42 PM

1. ksm looks like a troll doll in that pic

2. did you know that ksm went to north carolina a&t, a historically black college in north carolina? and that he used to pray in his dorm, but with muslims tradition, he would take his shoes off and put them in the hallway? and that fellow (american) students would take his shoes and throw them in the campus pond as a prank? and that made ksm think we were even MORE of a devil?

did you know that? because now thanks to a show trial, we will recount that story, and EVERY liberal will cry about “see! we DROVE him to this!”…. even though ksm was radicalized waaaay before this? and the ‘shoes’ story might even get a tear from a juror that was picked on in school themselves?

GREAT F&^*ING JOB OBAMA. YOU BLEW IT!

battleoflepanto1571 on November 18, 2009 at 1:42 PM

No matter how you cut it, this is scary scary stuff.

I need more ammo.

JamesLee on November 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM

We’re obviously missing the nuances in all this.

Drained Brain on November 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM

Not only will we be right back where we started, it will expose the federal trial as nothing more than a show trial.

What was the point of this entire exercise?

Oh yeah – to put the Bush administration on trial, forget about the consequences to national security, great plan!

Juno77 on November 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM

I can guarantee you that if he is acquitted and not left to go free, the left will explode. Obama is not ready for the backlash from this incredibly stupid decision.

Johnnyreb on November 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM

“How could you be more likely to get a conviction in a civilian court than in a military court when Khalid Sheik Mohammad has already pled guilty and asked for the death penalty before a military commission?”

- Jon Kyle

faraway on November 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM

Why is this article accompanied by an upside down picture of Don King?

LibTired on November 18, 2009 at 1:41 PM

Heh.

BadgerHawk on November 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

Scenerio goes like so:
Lots of political pressure builds regarding this trial so Obama transfers it all to the Hague to be tried by the International Criminal Court.
Which then puts the US military under the legal grasp of the UN…..

albill on November 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

Its like watching a group of 10 year old boys play with fireworks. You just know its going to end in disaster.

Logboy on November 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

Not only will we be right back where we started, it will expose the federal trial as nothing more than a show trial.

I prefer the term farce. Semantics perhaps, but show trials generally involve innocent people coerced by totalitarian regimes to confess to imaginary crimes. KSM is most definitely guilty.

Mike Honcho on November 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

Oh wow … what would that say to the world if our legal system actually acquitted one or more of these guys – but we held them anyway?

WTF does THAT say?!

HondaV65 on November 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

Why is this article accompanied by an upside down picture of Don King?

LibTired on November 18, 2009 at 1:41 PM

lol…

Anyway, every once in a while a story makes ya so hot under the collar…and this is one. It’s a disgrace that the 9/11 attacks are treated as a criminal act, and not the act of war they were.

JetBoy on November 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

Show trials are conducted by despots and dictators to give only a thin veneer of legality to political detentions and executions.

So we should just skip the trial part and get right on with the detentions and the executions?

That’s totally NOT what despots and dictators do.

e-pirate on November 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

And no one is mentioning that Holder was a member of a law firm that handled Al Queda cases.

kingsjester on November 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

What about Holder’s conflict of interest here? His law firm represented/s Gitmo terrorists.

elduende on November 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

The fact that Obama has guaranteed this terrorists conviction is scary. He is sounding more & more like a dictator every day. Heck, he already has the children singing worship songs to him!

portlandon on November 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

One might think that Holder would have more respect for a man with a lot more experience at handling the prosecution of terrorists than Holder himself has.

you would think so…

Holder’s legacy up front and center of this sham…

cmsinaz on November 18, 2009 at 1:46 PM

For eight years the lefties were screaming about Bush’s “police state.” Now they want to really give us one. This is not encouraging.

jwolf on November 18, 2009 at 1:46 PM

I understand that this picture was taken at Gitmo…Why is this guy not dry-shaved every day? Is he allowed to grow this fabulous beard due to “religious considerations?” Since when do we recognize his strain of Islam as a religion?

What’s with the flowing robes? Did he buy these at the commissary from his license-plate-making money? Or did they come in a CAIR package?

I like the “t-shirt & million hairs” picture…More fitting…

TheChicagoWay on November 18, 2009 at 1:47 PM

Oh wow … what would that say to the world if our legal system actually acquitted one or more of these guys – but we held them anyway?
WTF does THAT say?!
HondaV65 on November 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

I wonder if they even thought that far – or was it the prospect of trying Bush by proxy to appealing to even think about something like that?

Juno77 on November 18, 2009 at 1:48 PM

Whatever happened to “a nation of laws, not of men?”

Not advocating for release- should be a military tribunal. But how does a leading federal lawyer publicly say we are having a trial, but will detain an acquitted defendant, without understanding what this does to the legal framework of our republic?

cs89 on November 18, 2009 at 1:49 PM

ZOMG, we’re putting Cousin It on trial!

S. Weasel on November 18, 2009 at 1:50 PM

I need more ammo.

JamesLee on November 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM

reloading is cheaper and you get more “bang’ for your buck.

upinak on November 18, 2009 at 1:50 PM

I’ve seen posts on these threads that question the ability to find a “jury of their peers” who are unbiased or know nothing of the 9/11 attacks. So I’ve been wondering if maybe, just maybe if they are unable to find a person or persons who have not made up their minds as to the guilt or innocence of these guys is this a precurser to a “New World Order” system that has been alluded to?
I’m not a conspiracy person but sometimes you really have to think outside the realm of reality when it comes to the Obama administration.

milwife88 on November 18, 2009 at 1:51 PM

Is this just an episode of the show “V”?

faraway on November 18, 2009 at 1:51 PM

At this moment, Bleeds Blue is desperately searching the Law School Library at Moe Howard University for legal precedent to spin this one…

Del Dolemonte on November 18, 2009 at 1:52 PM

Strangely, I was thinking earlier today that this plan is nothing more than a show trial. But in my case, I figured it’s because the War on Terror was construed by Muslims as a War on Islam, so the Obama administration has reverted to conducting criminal investigations and trials rather than military actions and prisoners of war/war criminals. And to prove to the Muslim nations that we’re no longer waring on Islam, we put up this show trial of the 9/11 conspirators. In other words, it’s not really a criminal trial. It’s a foreign policy show trial.

NNtrancer on November 18, 2009 at 1:52 PM

One might think that Holder would have more respect for a man with a lot more experience at handling the prosecution of terrorists than Holder himself has.

Isn’t McCarthy too busy trying to hunt down Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate to help out with this trial thing?

e-pirate on November 18, 2009 at 1:52 PM

It’s a foreign policy show trial.

NNtrancer on November 18, 2009 at 1:52 PM

good point

cmsinaz on November 18, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Not only will we be right back where we started, it will expose the federal trial as nothing more than a show trial. Show trials are conducted by despots and dictators to give only a thin veneer of legality to political detentions and executions.

Finally it gets said.

I mean WTF. As the trial proceeds the rest of the world’s dirtbags, ie, the Chavez’s etc will be screaming exactly this–that it is a show trial akin to the gulags. They will be yelping at the UN and on any soapbox that is conveniently made available. The real question then becomes does Obama and crew relent and let him walk once it becomes clear that he was tortured by UN standards.

As this show trial evolves it will be very clear that Holder is putting the US on trial with Khalid as the excuse.

patrick neid on November 18, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Lots of political pressure builds regarding this trial so Obama transfers it all to the Hague to be tried by the International Criminal Court.
Which then puts the US military under the legal grasp of the UN…..

albill on November 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

Bingo. This is about Transnational law being implemented in this country. This is about Shari law. Holder is not interested in Bush he is interested in Transnational law.

Sanmon on November 18, 2009 at 1:53 PM

McCarthy helped with the trial of the 1993 World Trade Center terrorist attack, exactly the kind of trial Holder wants to conduct again, but Holder dismisses Andy as a polemicist who just wants “fodder for the talk shows.”

Actually Holder chuckled out loud when Kyl read McCarthy’s article – which reminded everyone how “leftist lawyers” who fought Bush’s policies at every turn, caused all of the delays in bringing KSM to trial.

Holder is a pompous arse, just like his Boss.

fogw on November 18, 2009 at 1:54 PM

Civilian courts are nothing more than parasitic $$ making arenas.
Judges & lawyers constantly drumming up business for each other.
It’s sadly laughable that we still have one of the better systems in the world.
I’ll tell one thing-family court is very unconstitutional & what goes on there is the biggest circus of all.
But no one says anything.
Luckily, this KSM isn’t battling for child custody.
It would last for years.

Badger40 on November 18, 2009 at 1:54 PM

Let’s not forget. These charges are going to be Conspiracy charges, which are very hard to prosecute anyway. These guys were arrested overseas and subjected to types of interrogation that are illegal to use on US civillians. They are all presumed innocent and the government has to PROVE their guilt beyond any reasonable doubt to 12 “peers”.
I’d sure like to know how Holder has built a case that airtight.

I don’t think this was really thought out very well. KSM could choose to represent himself and he would therefore get to see all of the evidence against him ahead of time. What guarantee do we have that he won’t just stand up in open court and start shouting out military secrets to any sympathizers who may be listening in the audience or watching on live TV? Will it be an open court like the OJ trials?

Mord on November 18, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Of course it’s a show trial.

It’s a way for Obama to prosecute the Bush Administration by proxy through the defense lawyers. Obama really wants to prosecute the Bush Administration, but he doesn’t want to take the political hit. So this way he can do that, without taking the hit, but also generate excitement in his liberal nutjob base.

If you do not think that the entire defense will be about how they were tortured, water boarded, mistreated in Gitmo, and every other repudiation against the Bush Administration, I have a bridge for you to buy.

Enoxo on November 18, 2009 at 1:55 PM

So if they get aquitted and the Obama Justice Department refuses to let them go can Holder and his cronies be charged with War Crimes? They would be holding people deemed to be non criminals.

There was a Senator (I think) on Fox News Sunday this week that said the same thing. Chris Walace asked what would happen if they got off and he said we’d still hold them, time was up so Walace wasn’t able to follow up, but my first thought was “Wow so he flat out said this is a show trial and nothing more” atleast Walace caled him out on the trial being 100% political after he stated the civilian trial “Shows the world we give rights to everyone”

Rbastid on November 18, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Who will be KSM’s lawyers….Holder’s law firm?

cmsinaz on November 18, 2009 at 1:56 PM

I need more ammo.

JamesLee on November 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM

So do we.
Having a hard time getting it.
Reloads, too.
We seriously need more ammo manufacturers.
It’s getting really crazy out there.

Badger40 on November 18, 2009 at 1:56 PM

This is Obama’s 9/11. The big difference is that it is a self-inflicted wound.

commenter on November 18, 2009 at 1:56 PM

So we should just skip the trial part and get right on with the detentions and the executions?

That’s totally NOT what despots and dictators do.

e-pirate on November 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM

Can you find anyone arguing that there should be no trials, whatsoever? If not, why did you work so hard to look like an idiot?

MarkTheGreat on November 18, 2009 at 1:57 PM

Badger40 on November 18, 2009 at 1:56 PM

reload.. reload.. reload!

upinak on November 18, 2009 at 1:57 PM

Obama vs. United States

faraway on November 18, 2009 at 1:57 PM

These trials are restoring America’s values – Bleeds Blows Blue.

BadgerHawk on November 18, 2009 at 1:42 PM

let’s call a spade a spade, shall we?

max1 on November 18, 2009 at 1:59 PM

“Shows the world we give rights to everyone”

Rbastid on November 18, 2009 at 1:55 PM

A disgusting idea.
The rights & truths may be self evident, but if you aren’t a citizen, you aren’t privy to them in THIS country.
And they can leave anytime they want to create a Republic or Democracy in their OWN back yards.
Seriously-WTF is wrong with people that they think every Tom, Dick & Harry deserves the rights of a citizen in a country they are not a citizen of ?!

Badger40 on November 18, 2009 at 1:59 PM

This whole thing is a political farce. Holder admitted that his decision was, in part, based on who would be more sympathetic to the “torture” issue. Cornyn pounded him on the immigration status issue and Holder admitted he didn’t know.

Connie on November 18, 2009 at 1:59 PM

I can’t conjure strong enough language to denounce a civilian trial of KSM. Presuming he will be afforded the same constitutional rights as other criminal defendants, absent selective application of our law, a conviction is not a certainty. Just imagine the rage in the Muslim world of an acquittal, followed by continued detention.

It’s hard for me to imagine an outcome that won’t undermine our nation in the eyes of the world.

flyfisher on November 18, 2009 at 2:00 PM

My comment from Digg yesterday.

Basically, the civilian trial would be a show trial to make liberals feel good about themselves.

Rating: 20+ / 26-

BohicaTwentyTwo on November 18, 2009 at 2:00 PM

I’d also like to know why Bloomberg was consulted and Gov. Paterson was not.

Connie on November 18, 2009 at 2:01 PM

Gov. Paterson should send the NY National Guard to prevent KSM from coming to NY.

faraway on November 18, 2009 at 2:02 PM

Another thing I’d like to know is if Muslims will be allowed to sit on the jury.

Connie on November 18, 2009 at 2:02 PM

Holder’s assertion that the US will detain KSM no matter what the court finds

It won’t be Holder’s call. Following an acquittal, the District Court will order the defendant released. That is how it works Holder won’t have to release KSM in NYC during rush hour, but he will at least have to put him on a plane out of the country. What a disaster that will be.

This is such a monumentally stupid idea, with nothing but down side for the country and the Admin., I would not be surprised if these trials never come to pass. Nevermind!

james23 on November 18, 2009 at 2:02 PM

Very cogent editorial in today’s Washington Times…

Why KSM may indeed “walk.”

coldwarrior on November 18, 2009 at 2:03 PM

I’d also like to know why Bloomberg was consulted and Gov. Paterson was not.

Politically Gov. Paterson is a “dead man walking”.

Mike Honcho on November 18, 2009 at 2:03 PM

They need to hold this trial on Broadway.

kingsjester on November 18, 2009 at 2:03 PM

The concept of “unbiased justice” is foreign to an administration that believes in redistributive justice. While you may believe this only applies to taxation and hand-outs, how do you differentiate one application of justice from another? FUBAR’d reasoning in one area spreads to all others. Get it yet, you 52% sh*theads?

SKYFOX on November 18, 2009 at 2:05 PM

However you wish to view this obamanation, even a conviction and death sentence would merely drag this circus into 10 years of automatic appeals. Obama, well out of office by then, will have had no hand in the death of his Muslim brother(s).

DRH on November 18, 2009 at 2:06 PM

Scenerio goes like so:
Lots of political pressure builds regarding this trial so Obama transfers it all to the Hague to be tried by the International Criminal Court.
Which then puts the US military under the legal grasp of the UN…..

albill on November 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

I’m afraid you’re right.

Scary $h!t indeed.

But hey, he’s our first “Pacific President“.

omnipotent on November 18, 2009 at 2:07 PM

Congratulations Eric holder.

You have, through this process, made the American judicial proceedings seem more like a Drumhead Trial than those done by courts martial.

Another step down the road towards Newspeak.

JohnGalt23 on November 18, 2009 at 2:09 PM

All Holder said was that if acquitted, the terrorists wouldn’t be realeased “in this country.”. He didn’t say anything about whether he would release them elsewhere.

LASue on November 18, 2009 at 2:10 PM

Foreign Terrorists Win Citizens’ Right to Federal Court Trial After Targeting Their 3,000th Civilian http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/11/foreign-terrorists-win-citizens-right.html

Mervis Winter on November 18, 2009 at 2:16 PM

On the scales of justice, which one is unconstitutional:

Holding a person acquitted of a crime in Federal Court indefinitely, or holding a known and admitted terrorist/murderer as a POW, indefinitely.

Answer: Imprisoning an innocent man. Not being found guilty means you’re “not guilty”.

Obama and Holder are at this very moment setting the stage to hold a person found not guilty in prison forever. Isn’t this exactly what the Libtards were rendering their garments over during the campaign? Difference being, Bush never put these animals on trial.

BobMbx on November 18, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Oh wow … what would that say to the world if our legal system actually acquitted one or more of these guys – but we held them anyway?

WTF does THAT say?!

HondaV65 on November 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

It validates that Bush was in FACT everything the left claimed he was and that BO is everything they claim he is.

It will be a great day in history as the world embraces the new USA under BO and we will again take our place at the adults table.

Nah I’m just kidding. The rest of the world will pee their pants laughing at us and then make plans on how to leverage BO for their own enrichment.

RagTag on November 18, 2009 at 2:16 PM

I need more ammo.

JamesLee on November 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM
reloading is cheaper and you get more “bang’ for your buck.

upinak on November 18, 2009 at 1:50 PM

Yes, AK, I would love to get into that. Couple things have to happen first, though, business needs to pick up to allow me some extra cash, and MrsJamesLee needs convinced that reloading equipment and supplies are the best use of said extra cash!

And before that even, I’d love to have a Mini14, not really into the AR scene myself though I wouldn’t turn one down. And mags. Lots and lots of mags!

JamesLee on November 18, 2009 at 2:16 PM

All Holder said was that if acquitted, the terrorists wouldn’t be realeased “in this country.”. He didn’t say anything about whether he would release them elsewhere.

LASue on November 18, 2009 at 2:10 PM

Exactly right-not only is he saying there is a chance they could walk (after also saying they would certainly be convicted) he is also here saying that they could walk free, again after saying they would never be released.

Plenty of mistrial-bait there. Plenty.

Del Dolemonte on November 18, 2009 at 2:16 PM

but Holder dismisses Andy as a polemicist who just wants “fodder for the talk shows.” One might think that Holder would have more respect for a man with a lot more experience at handling the prosecution of terrorists than Holder himself has.

Seriously? You post this statement with the thought that Holder or anyone else in this administration thinks that ANYONE is even CLOSE to their level of intelligence and can add VALUE to a conversation or situation. Wow…..I’m shocked.

Sponge on November 18, 2009 at 2:17 PM

I need more ammo.
JamesLee on November 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM

So do we.
Having a hard time getting it.
Reloads, too.
We seriously need more ammo manufacturers.
It’s getting really crazy out there.
Badger40 on November 18, 2009 at 1:56 PM

I would agree with most of that, except that it’s really Been crazy out there for the good part of a year – it’s crazy in historical proportions.

Juno77 on November 18, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Doncha just wanna poke those eyes out…and shave that MF bald?

royzer on November 18, 2009 at 2:20 PM

I think this is a teachable moment….

PatriotRider on November 18, 2009 at 2:21 PM

Attorney General Eric Holder: I have thought about that possibility. Congress has passed legislation that would not allow the release of these individuals in this country. If there is not a successful conclusion to this trial, that would not mean that this person would be released into this country

Into this country…

Released into another country, perhaps?

Again, he didn’t say would not be released. He added into this country.

That’s not an accident.

SteveMG on November 18, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Obama and Holder are at this very moment setting the stage to hold a person found not guilty in prison forever. Isn’t this exactly what the Libtards were rendering their garments over during the campaign? Difference being, Bush never put these animals on trial.

BobMbx on November 18, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Only not guilty of the crimes presented at trial. They have other charges waiting just in case he is let go.

This is a win for BO because he can but the guy on trial and get the worship of the world and then he can kill him based on completely different charges deemed fit only for military trial. Why do you think he is doing both military and civilian trials for Gitmo guests? It’s to keep that military door open and the right to use it at his discretion.

I still say it will never make it to trial because all charges will be dropped due to bad evidence. He will go directly back to Gitmo right after the court hearing hat drops the charges.

RagTag on November 18, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Holder needs to try KSM et al., in Sharia court. Anything less would deny them their right to a jury of their peers.

Christien on November 18, 2009 at 2:24 PM

This access to the us criminal courts system by terrorists is an incentive to terrorists to attack civilian target within the us.

daesleeper on November 18, 2009 at 2:24 PM

America signed it’s death certificate when they voted this little satan into office.

leftnomore on November 18, 2009 at 2:24 PM

It’s a good thing that the adults are in charge, who knows what the kids would of done.
/sarc

Brat4life on November 18, 2009 at 2:25 PM

Holder is making a mockery out of American justice. If there was any legitimacy to a civilian trial it would have to be predicated on the presumtion of innocence for KSM before the trial.

fourdeucer on November 18, 2009 at 2:25 PM

If they want to try KSM in a civilian court the least they could do is get him a shave and a good suit.

freemarketlibertine on November 18, 2009 at 2:29 PM

As the poll numbers continue to tank, Obie will walk this back. KSM will never see New York City.

Dire Straits on November 18, 2009 at 2:36 PM

Obama is a phony lawyer in addition to his other shortcomings. He did nothing as editor of the Harvard Law Review, which is stunning in itself: no writing at all, which is one fundamental part of what a law student is supposed to do on the law review. He was “present.” Thus, it is no surprise that Obama’s legal department, led by the super political Holder, has nothing to do with the law except to the extent it can be manipulated to push the Obama radical agenda. So, today we Obama announcing that the terrorists will be executed after a fair trial that they can get only in New York.

GaltBlvnAtty on November 18, 2009 at 2:36 PM

We have to know about KSM’s torture and if any of his confessions were from torture.

Spathi on November 18, 2009 at 2:36 PM

Just wait until they start talking about how some are “committing terrorism” on our health care system by not buying health insurance. Military tribunals for those terrorists!

rbj on November 18, 2009 at 2:38 PM

If KSM testifies, will they have to make him swear in on a Bible? That would be funny.

AmericanUnderground on November 18, 2009 at 2:41 PM

We have to know about KSM’s torture and if any of his confessions were from torture.

Spathi on November 18, 2009 at 2:36 PM

Why? The US doesn’t torture and never has. You’re asking them to release classified information that it’s really NOT THE REST OF THE WORLD’S BUSINESS!!! They are doing what they can to keep AMERICA safe from it’s enemies while abiding by the Geneva Convention. Enough said.

Sponge on November 18, 2009 at 2:45 PM

It will certainly be a show trial IF there is a trial. Intemperate words made by both president and attorney general could be grounds for prejudicial dismissal and, if not, certainly an appeal (of a guilty verdict) traveling all the way up to a SCOTUS populated by Sotomayor and goodness knows who else by that time-5-10 years hence.

I can see KSM now strolling confidently down Broadway fliping a finger to all onlookers.

MaiDee on November 18, 2009 at 2:53 PM

AmericanUnderground@ 2:41
There are two facts that come into play when radical Islamists are tried in federal court, rarely discussed:
First, most Islamists interpret their religion such that there in no such thing a “lying” to infidels;
Second, it is federal law that a witness’s religion cannot be used to attack the witness’s credibility.
Trying these jerks in federal court is a bad joke on the American public.

GaltBlvnAtty on November 18, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Holder said this: If there is not a successful conclusion to this trial, that would not mean that this person would be released into this country

(my emphasis)

Without being overly Clintonesque, is it possible that the AG is leaving open the possibility of releasing an unconvicted KSM into another country? In other words could he be running loose again somewhere?

Blaise on November 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Holder’s a racist. He hates America. And he hates Muslims. He hates the previous administration… which is what this show trial will really be all about. The fool is a hater. And not a very smart one at that.

Griz on November 18, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Are they bringing these terrorists to NYC to toss them off a top of a tall building? Maybe it’s a surprise?

Hening on November 18, 2009 at 3:10 PM

If there is not a successful conclusion to this trial, that would not mean that this person would be released into this country…

Doesn’t that mean he will be released in the Islamic paradise of his choice….at your expense?

BL@KBIRD on November 18, 2009 at 3:10 PM

It’s perfectly licit to call him an enemy combatant to be detained for the duration. Every Italian POW in the US during WW2 was an indefinite prisoner. Why not leave it there?

I prefer the term farce. Semantics perhaps, but show trials generally involve innocent people coerced by totalitarian regimes to confess to imaginary crimes. KSM is most definitely guilty.
Mike Honcho on November 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM

Except in 21st century America you’re charged with a set of legal definitions, and if the facts don’t fit the charge, you must be acquitted. Yezhov, the MKVD head butcher, got his own show trial; he was clearly not innocent, but he was also clearly railroaded. Fitzroy MacClean reported that Yezhov several times had to tell Vishinzky to stop demanding straight answers to dangerous questions…though not in those words.

Chris_Balsz on November 18, 2009 at 3:21 PM

I wonder if the defense will get a portion of Muslims on the jury so that way he gets a fair shake from his own religion.

Spathi on November 18, 2009 at 3:24 PM

At this moment, Bleeds Blue is desperately searching the Law School Library at Moe Howard University for legal precedent to spin this one…

Del Dolemonte on November 18, 2009 at 1:52 PM

The point is that there’s really very little to no legal precedent for this type of event. The War on Terror has presented unique problems for our civil and military legal systems.

That said, I think there are very solid grounds for disagreeing with Holder’s decision, but naturally I haven’t seen our excitable little friend Dolemonte argue any of them.

a conviction is not a certainty.

It pretty much is. The whole “acquittal” issue is a red herring.

crr6 on November 18, 2009 at 3:34 PM

On the plus side, after all the formerly classified information linking Osama bin Laden and KSM to 9/11 have been made public in court, perhaps the truthers will shut up. On the other hand, there’s no convincing those who refuse to be convinced no matter what the evidence.

NNtrancer on November 18, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Comment pages: 1 2