Holder: I picked criminal court because … I’m really smart
posted at 12:15 pm on November 18, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Thanks to Scott Johnson at Power Line, we have Attorney General Eric Holder’s explanation of his decision to try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in federal court rather than by military tribunals or commissions. Or do we? As Scott and Paul Mirengoff note, Eric Holder spends a lot of time in which he claims to explain the decision, and says nothing at all about how he reached it.
I am a prosecutor, and as a prosecutor my top priority was simply to select the venue where the government will have the greatest opportunity to present the strongest case in the best forum.
I studied this issue extensively. I consulted the Secretary of Defense. I heard from prosecutors from my Department and from the Defense Department’s Office of Military Commissions. I spoke to victims on both sides of the question. I asked a lot of questions and weighed every alternative. And at the end of the day, it was clear to me that the venue in which we are most likely to obtain justice for the American people is in federal court.
I know there are members of this committee, and members of the public, who have strong feelings on both sides. There are some who disagree with the decision to try the alleged Cole bomber and several others in a military commission, just as there are some who disagree with prosecuting the 9/11 plotters in federal court. …
This was a tough call, and reasonable people can disagree with my conclusion that these individuals should be tried in federal court rather than a military commission.
The 9/11 attacks were both an act of war and a violation of our federal criminal law, and they could have been prosecuted in either federal courts or military commissions. Courts and commissions are both essential tools in our fight against terrorism.
Therefore, at the outset of my review of these cases, I had no preconceived views as to the merits of either venue, and in fact on the same day that I sent these five defendants to federal court, I referred five others to be tried in military commissions. I am a prosecutor, and as a prosecutor my top priority was simply to select the venue where the government will have the greatest opportunity to present the strongest case in the best forum.
I studied this issue extensively. I consulted the Secretary of Defense. I heard from prosecutors from my Department and from the Defense Department’s Office of Military Commissions. I spoke to victims on both sides of the question. I asked a lot of questions and weighed every alternative. And at the end of the day, it was clear to me that the venue in which we are most likely to obtain justice for the American people is in federal court.
I know there are members of this committee, and members of the public, who have strong feelings on both sides. There are some who disagree with the decision to try the alleged Cole bomber and several others in a military commission, just as there are some who disagree with prosecuting the 9/11 plotters in federal court.
Despite these disagreements, I hope we can have an open, honest, and informed discussion about that decision today, and as part of that discussion, I would like to clear up some of the misinformation that I have seen since Friday.
First, we know that we can prosecute terrorists in our federal courts safely and securely because we have been doing it for years. There are more than 300 convicted international and domestic terrorists currently in Bureau of Prisons custody, including those responsible for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the attacks on our embassies in Africa. Our courts have a long history of handling these cases, and no district has a longer history than the Southern District of New York in Manhattan. I have talked to Mayor Bloomberg of New York, and both he and the Police Commissioner Ray Kelly believe that we can safely hold these trials in New York.
Second, we can protect classified material during trial. The Classified Information Procedures Act, or CIPA, establishes strict rules and procedures for the use of classified information at trial, and we have used it to protect classified information in a range of terrorism cases. In fact, the standards recently adopted by Congress to govern the use of classified information in military commissions are derived from the very CIPA rules that we use in federal court.
Third, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed will have no more of a platform to spew his hateful ideology in federal court than he would have in military commissions. Before the commissions last year, he declared the proceedings an “inquisition,” condemned his own attorneys and our Constitution, and professed his desire to become a martyr. Those proceedings were heavily covered in the media, yet few complained at the time that his rants threatened the fabric of our democracy.
Judges in federal court have firm control over the conduct of defendants and other participants in their courtrooms, and when the 9/11 conspirators are brought to trial, I have every confidence that the presiding judge will ensure appropriate decorum. And if KSM makes the same statements he made in his military commission proceedings, I have every confidence the nation and the world will see him for the coward he is. I’m not scared of what KSM will have to say at trial – and no one else needs to be either.
Fourth, there is nothing common about the treatment the alleged 9/11 conspirators will receive. In fact, I expect to direct prosecutors to seek the ultimate and most uncommon penalty for these heinous crimes. And I expect that they will be held in custody under Special Administrative Measures reserved for the most dangerous criminals.
Finally, there are some who have said this decision means that we have reverted to a pre-9/11 mentality, or that we don’t realize this nation is at war. Three weeks ago, I had the honor of joining the President at Dover Air Force Base for the dignified transfer of the remains of eighteen Americans, including three DEA agents, who lost their lives to the war in Afghanistan. The brave soldiers and agents carried home on that plane gave their lives to defend this country and its values, and we owe it to them to do everything we can to carry on the work for which they sacrificed.
I know that we are at war.
I know that we are at war with a vicious enemy who targets our soldiers on the battlefield in Afghanistan and our civilians on the streets here at home. I have personally witnessed that somber fact in the faces of the families who have lost loved ones abroad, and I have seen it in the daily intelligence stream I review each day. Those who suggest otherwise are simply wrong.
Prosecuting the 9/11 defendants in federal court does not represent some larger judgment about whether or not we are at war. We are at war, and we will use every instrument of national power – civilian, military, law enforcement, intelligence, diplomatic, and others – to win. We need not cower in the face of this enemy. Our institutions are strong, our infrastructure is sturdy, our resolve is firm, and our people are ready.
We will also use every instrument of our national power to bring to justice those responsible for terrorist attacks against our people. For eight years, justice has been delayed for the victims of the 9/11 attacks. It has been delayed even further for the victims of the attack on the USS Cole. No longer. No more delays. It is time, it is past time, to act. By bringing prosecutions in both our courts and military commissions, by seeking the death penalty, by holding these terrorists responsible for their actions, we are finally taking ultimate steps toward justice. That is why I made this decision.
In making this and every other decision I have made as Attorney General, my paramount concern is the safety of the American people and the preservation of American values. I am confident this decision meets those goals, and that it will withstand the judgment of history.
Well, that’s great. But what about the federal court made Holder decide that it was a better venue than military tribunals for KSM and his cohorts? And what about military tribunals made Holder decide that they would be better venues for other Gitmo detainees? Nowhere in this long, laborious statement does Holder do what he proposed to do with it, which is to explain why we’re better off with KSM in federal court rather than in the military tribunals that Holder will use for other detainees.
Furthermore, the delays which Holder decries have come courtesy of Congress, the Supreme Court, and the Obama administration. It took Congress years to finally agree on the military tribunal process, and the Supreme Court threw it out. The next year, a Democratic Congress created another process, and Gitmo detainees were already scheduled to get that form of justice (including KSM) when Obama stopped the tribunals after taking office. Now that Holder has transferred the cases to federal court, we can expect years more in delays before we get to voir dire and opening statements, assuming that the judge doesn’t dismiss the case for all sorts of evidentiary issues surrounding the acquisition of intelligence and the physical capture and detention of the defendants.
If Holder wanted to avoid the delays, he would have chosen the tribunals, not the federal court system. And his assertion that KSM can’t use a federal trial as a propaganda platform is ludicrous. Zacarias Moussaoui managed to do it perfectly well despite the supposed power of federal judges to “control” defendants. KSM is much more adept than Moussaoui, who was considered even by his al-Qaeda colleagues to be a loose cannon.
Finally, let’s look at an example that Holder offers, that of the 1993 trial of Omar Abdel Rahman. Did that stop al-Qaeda in its tracks? No, and in fact, it allowed Rahman to use Lynne Stewart as a conductor to further direct terrorism abroad. The US also used law enforcement to arrest Rahman in the US, which means that their evidentiary chain was more suitable to federal court than a military tribunal — and since Rahman committed his crime while a legal resident of the US, federal court was the only choice the government had.
Holder can’t provide an explanation for this choice because there is no acceptable explanation. It’s entirely political.










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I’m not buying it. Obama gains nothing by getting into a wee-weeing contest with the FBI, the CIA or the last administration.
Bleeds Blue on November 18, 2009 at 12:51 PM
Didn’t Nixon say something really stupid before or during the Manson trial that almost got that case tossed?
Knucklehead on November 18, 2009 at 12:51 PM
At the end of the day, Holder did not confer with former Attorney Generals. 24 hours fly by.
maverick muse on November 18, 2009 at 12:51 PM
So KSM can appeal to the US Constitution for mistrial? Wonderful.
gwelf on November 18, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Brat4Life…Ed has already linked this on the home page
cmsinaz on November 18, 2009 at 12:52 PM
I won’t speak for BB, but as for me, I cannot say I have no doubt. The fact I find myself thinking of an answer means something. If I had to place odds, I’d give it 99-1 that KSM will never see the light of day as free man.
Its that “1″ that’s at issue. If this were under Bush, I would have no question (or doubt).
BobMbx on November 18, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Before Holder’s team even gets to the evidence/mistrial issues, they will have to find a VERY large pool of willing, unbiased, potential jurors. Based on my experience, that exercise should that until approximately … forever!
LASue on November 18, 2009 at 12:53 PM
That would indeed surprise me. I don’t think they’ll lose, though.
blockquote>
So KSM can appeal to the US Constitution for mistrial? Wonderful.
gwelf on November 18, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Just as he would be able to after a military tribunal.
And, yes. We should stick to our values all the time.
Bleeds Blue on November 18, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Holder was asked several times what would he do if KSM was not convicted due to some technicality.
His answer?
“We will win.”
Way to plan ahead dummy.
fogw on November 18, 2009 at 12:55 PM
I saw that I was wondering about the interview with Major G.
Brat4life on November 18, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Obama may indeed lose everything, but that is not stopping him from playing King of the Hill.
Though Obama’s p!ssing on himself, he just can’t help himself from indulging in the blame Bush mantra. And get over the supposition that Obama hasn’t been p!ssing on the FBI and CIA via selection of directors, including posting DHS Frauless Napolitano uber alles.
When Pelosi said that the CIA LIES ALL THE TIME, Obama did not rebut her in any way, endorsing via silence.
maverick muse on November 18, 2009 at 12:57 PM
The Administration’s incompetance, tainted by ideology created this outcome. Perhaps they actually believe that there are some political benefits to be had.
Revenant on November 18, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Slam dunk?
Mission Accomplished?
Turned a corner?
Heckuv’a job, Brownie?
BobMbx on November 18, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Wesa no like da Holder. Tkk-tkk-tkk-tkk-tkk. The Holder tink day so smarty. Day tink day brains so big.
Mesa no tink so.
Seriously, I am so sick of this “liberal intellectualism” that has no basis in practical application with successful results.
It’s like my nephew when he was 12 wanting to be an electrician and my sister saying how smart and driven he was by taking the initiative to cut holes out of the drywall to find the “circuits” and tinker with them.
Obama is doing this same thing with the country. Just punching holes in the structure and crossing wires pretending he knows what he is doing. That is until he burns the place down. Why are we sitting here watching him do this?
nitzsche on November 18, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Delays? Holder has the audacity to imply that he interested in a speedy carrying out of justice! So he picks a Federal Court?
Well now everyone knows that fancy lawyers never stoop to swamping the opposing side in a mountain of paperwork, why no, they are morally opposed to any form of delaying tactics and frivolous motions to tie their opponents resources. It is entirely beyond conception that grand-standing peacocks would dain to use NYC as an “all the world’s a stage” platform to taint the jury, and then plead they can’t get a fair trial, never in a million years!
It is irresponsible to even suggest that the biggest tent that is the Big Apple, might turn into a 3 ring circus complete with jihadi barkers and liberal clowns. How could be so crass as to suggest that the venue was arrived at to create a carnival dunk tank with the intent of exposing & embarssing intrepid covert agebts, don’t be silly!
You’d have to be a right-wing-nut to embrace the notion that the administration is merely devolving into political games-menship. To imply that Holder’s decision isn’t based on the best interests of the US is a caricature of a fine officer of the court who would never seek the pardons of those who trade with enemy (Mark Rich) or to free terrorists (FALN).
Why you are just a hateful, racist, wack-job to beleive anything other than the purest motives of Team Obama, this diarretic dissembling our Attorney General is actually manna from heaven don’t ya know.
Archimedes on November 18, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Yeah.. You’re right Ed! That’s what it amounts to!
As Sen Kyl asked, how do you get more sure of a conviction than a confession of guilt? Which KSM plead before Holder granted KSM’s wish.. “I want an attorney”.
Sen Graham is right. Holder would also bring OBL into a NY Fed Court.
The USS Cole is going into a military tribunal because that happened on Clinton’s watch and we wouldn’t want to remind the American people of what this law enforcement approach that Obama is returning to has already wrought on our homeland.
Texas Gal on November 18, 2009 at 12:59 PM
And you pretending the outcome isn’t a foregone conclusion undercuts yours.
You think there will be a conviction. I’m positive there will be a conviction. But what happens if there isn’t? Does KSM go free? Of course not.
This is a show trials in that it doesn’t matter what the outcome is, KSM’s never going free. You admit there is political pressure for a conviction but pretend there won’t be any if they don’t get one.
You’re boxed into a corner on this, just like the administration, which is why Holder couldn’t give an actual answer as to why 5 guys go to civilian court and the rest stay in tribunal.
BadgerHawk on November 18, 2009 at 1:00 PM
The reason they are doing this is simple. Its about ideology.
This is a deliberate assault on our security forces engaged in combat and counter terror operations. Regardless of the outcome of this “trial” the precedent will have been set that hogties our military and intelligence services into either adopting onerous and unprecedented legal policies or abandoning the fight altogether.
Either way they win by emasculating our security. Its nothing less than treason by the leftists.
elduende on November 18, 2009 at 1:01 PM
So you think while the trial itself is not going to be fixed that the outcome – if not desirable – is going to be ignored? What’s the point then?…
Why do you think they’ll find him guilty if you believe he has a good case for a mistrial?
And which values are you talking about? Our tradition is to try enemy combatants via military tribunal. And while you may think waterboarding is torture this is an unsettled issue about which there is much disagreement.
gwelf on November 18, 2009 at 1:01 PM
So why don’t all the terrorists get a civilian trial?
BadgerHawk on November 18, 2009 at 1:01 PM
They won’t let KSM go. They’ll just throw him back in a military brig. Which makes the whole trial, which is supposed to showcase the “fairness” of the American justice system, a farce.
Mike Honcho on November 18, 2009 at 1:01 PM
Convoluted blatherings that mean nothing. The purpose of a language is communication; not deception!
jgdp on November 18, 2009 at 1:02 PM
In every war the US has fought in, we’ve tried such individuals as Muhammed and others in miltiary courts. FDR did it and we did it with the Nuremberg Tribunals.
Those are the traditions and values that we need to hold on to.
No one believes that we violated our values by trying the Nazis and the Japanese in military courts.
The values that we hold dear are ones that say that foreign combatants who engage in acts of war against us must be tried by military courts and not be given the cherished rights that apply to US citizens or those here legally.
To give access to civilian courts to these ‘terrorist/ soldiers’ is to denigrate our values.
SteveMG on November 18, 2009 at 1:03 PM
my bad
cmsinaz on November 18, 2009 at 1:04 PM
This will turn out to be a spectacle that will make the OJ case look like a cub scout den meeting. It is purely done to make the Bush adm look bad.
rjoco1 on November 18, 2009 at 1:05 PM
So you don’t agree with Obama/Holder that other terrorists can be tried via military tribunal but just KSM and some other terrorists can be tried in civil court? If you agree with Holders stance on this perhaps you can explain it – I’d really like to know.
gwelf on November 18, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Why not on a ship right in the middle of the Harbor—with an anchor tied to his feet?
Rovin on November 18, 2009 at 1:06 PM
Man, typos, typos! Always with the freakin typos! I get so pissed evertime I read a statement from these idjits, I just lose it!
Archimedes on November 18, 2009 at 1:06 PM
Well Said
nyx on November 18, 2009 at 1:07 PM
I guess we abandoned our ‘values’ when we tried the Nazis and Japanese in military courts. Or when we held 350,000 German POWS in the US during the war. Without trials or habeas hearings.
If that’s the new liberal talking point, they’re welcome to it.
SteveMG on November 18, 2009 at 1:08 PM
I think you are on to something. I think it is a re-framing of the War On Terror. Now it is a legal matter against criminals. And as some other commentator said, why are we in Afghanistan if this is a criminal matter? Hmmmm…this, coupled with the new “worry” about the deficit maybe how Obama is going to sell the withdrawl of our forces from Afghanistan.
WisCon on November 18, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Whatever happened to those partisan whores? “Victims” who politicize the death of loved ones for a wide-ranging political agenda disgust me nearly as much as terrorist-loving AGs.
highhopes on November 18, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Exactly!
gwelf on November 18, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Me too. It’s impossible to explain logically.
BadgerHawk on November 18, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Holder says: “I spoke to victims on both sides of the question.” Hmmmm. Who among the 3,000+ victims on this side of the question did he speak to and WHO IN THE WORLD are the victims on the other side of the question? Is he insinuating that KSM and Co. are victims of some sort??? The sooner 2012 gets here, the better off we will all be. I’m sick of these posers.
Monkeybrains220 on November 18, 2009 at 1:10 PM
And if we’d captured a German general during WWII and used harsh interrogation to get intelligence that saved lives and helped the war effort we’d have to put him on civil trial where he can claimed he was ‘tortured’ and get a mistrial. These are American values? The left is truly insane.
gwelf on November 18, 2009 at 1:11 PM
I just saw on Fox Grahm was asking Holder questions and he asked whether or not Bin Laden would have to be mirandized(sp?) if we caught him today. Holder had no answer.
Mord on November 18, 2009 at 1:13 PM
I’m pretty sure he means the question of whether or not to give some terrorists a civilian trial.
BadgerHawk on November 18, 2009 at 1:13 PM
Absolutely right. The way these leftist parasites have eroded our power we could NOT convene a Nurmeberg today.
Its not only about Afghanistan or the GWOT. They won’t stop there. Our entire geostrategic posture is offensive to them. The global geopolitical order is offensive to them. The military and intelligence services are an affront to their politics.
These are not “mainstream” democrats we’re talking about here, they are hardcore ideologues at war with the traditional notions of America and America’s power.
elduende on November 18, 2009 at 1:14 PM
No. We abandon our values when we use confessions obtained by torture, which was the point I was making. I have a preference for civilian courts for crimes committed against civilians and — in this case — because it’s important to show that we’re not hiding anything. I wouldn’t be broken-hearted if KSM were tried by tribunal.
The comparison between uniformed combatants representing countries with which we were at war, and un-uniformed terrorists is, I suspect, legally tenuous.
You realize, of course, if Bush and the Republicans had actually put together a Constitutional military tribunal system way back when, this might be all over by now. The Bush Administration’s contempt for the Constitution is what allowed Holder to make this decision.
Bleeds Blue on November 18, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Yeah, they could hold it on CVN-77, the USS George H.W. Bush.
Or the USS Jimmy Carter perhaps?
Del Dolemonte on November 18, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Remember, the Judge in the Moussaoui trial tried to get the indictment thrown out.
Also remember that Holder’s law firm defended some AQ folks, while he was still a senior member of that firm.
Del Dolemonte on November 18, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Your use of the phrase “show trials” undercuts your usual credibility.
I think there will be tremendous pressure on Obama/Holder and the Justice Department to win a conviction, just as there would be on Obama/the military to win a conviction, but I don’t suspect they will do anything untoward.
Bleeds Blue on November 18, 2009 at 12:40 PM
And you pretending the outcome isn’t a foregone conclusion undercuts yours.
You think there will be a conviction. I’m positive there will be a conviction. But what happens if there isn’t? Does KSM go free? Of course not.
This is a show trials in that it doesn’t matter what the outcome is, KSM’s never going free. You admit there is political pressure for a conviction but pretend there won’t be any if they don’t get one.
You’re boxed into a corner on this, just like the administration, which is why Holder couldn’t give an actual answer as to why 5 guys go to civilian court and the rest stay in tribunal.
BadgerHawk on November 18, 2009 at 1:00 PM
This play is a stroke of pure genius by the administration, par exellance. After Holder virtually assured a conviction, he armed the jihadi propaganda machine to depict a kangaroo court should KSM be convicted. Thus our court sytem that purports “blind justice” is undermined abroad.
If KSM uses this opportunity to use as a soap-box (and he will) he will embarss and expose our intel services, divulge our methodologies and possibly walk on a technicality. Thus our court system appears deaf, dumb and blind to ourselves, underming our own confidence in the rule of law and our way of life!
For Team Obama this is the best of all worlds, a lose-lose situation for America.
Archimedes on November 18, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Idiotic.
Holder and Obama laud the notion of displaying our justice system at the same time they’re presuming guilt. Overseas muslims will love that rigged game.
And what does poaching these five from the military commissions say about the process applied to those who do go through the commissions?
If anything goes wrong, it’s all on Obama and Holder.
BuckeyeSam on November 18, 2009 at 1:20 PM
Wrong. Your side of the aisle blocked Bush’s attempts at every turn to put that system put together. Please try again.
Del Dolemonte on November 18, 2009 at 1:20 PM
Bleeds Blue on November 18, 2009 at 1:16 PM
You just illuminated the real purpose of this upcoming off-Bradway show. This trial in not an exercise in American justice. KSM already confessed and asked to be executed. Holder’s purpose is to embarrass and shame the Bush Administration. And if any of America’s espionage secrets are exposed to our enemies, Holder and his Boss will not shed any tears.
kingsjester on November 18, 2009 at 1:21 PM
I can’t wait until the adults are in charge again.
coldwarrior on November 18, 2009 at 1:21 PM
So isn’t that a conflict of interest? Should Holder have recused himself from making the decision where the trial would be held?
SouperConservative on November 18, 2009 at 1:22 PM
This incentivizes attacks against civilians. Why plot an attack against any hard target when you know the standard of proof in a civilian trial will be so high?
Don’t we have a tribunal system that was put in place by Bush, and approved by a Congress to which President Obama was a part of?
BadgerHawk on November 18, 2009 at 1:23 PM
SO let’s him give him ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY!
Eric Holder is an a**hole.
As Andy McCarthy points out, KSM was willing to plead guilty to a military commission and be executed, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO….
Obama had to shut the commissions down and provide KSM this theater.
God help us.
drjohn on November 18, 2009 at 1:23 PM
I say you are wrong. I am convinced that the goal is to place G.W. Bush on the stand. What Obama ultimately wants is to place the “last administration” on trial, and this is the first step.
oldleprechaun on November 18, 2009 at 1:23 PM
It ALL comes back to: It’s Boosshes fault!, doesn’t it?
Juno77 on November 18, 2009 at 1:24 PM
They did. They followed the then established law and precedent that Lincoln and FDR and other presidents followed and that was upheld by the Courts – e.g, ex parte Quirin.
SCOTUS threw out the first commissions and ruled that Congress had to set them up. That was never ruled before.
Congress then did. The President signed on to them.
Then SCOTUS ruled that the defendants had habeas rights to challenge their detention, something never given before in the history of the country.
The problem here has been the Supreme Court overturning precedent and establishing, ad hoc, new rights and procedures. They’re the ones making things up and causing all of these delays and problems.
As Holder acknowledged, this Administration can try these individuals in civilian or military courts. For these, and apparently only these, they’re using civilian courts.
That’s an unwise decision.
SteveMG on November 18, 2009 at 1:24 PM
Map out the time line. The “eight years” line doesn’t add up. KSM was caught in early 2003, I think. And Holder’s been picking his nose for 10 months after haulting the tribunal. And, if you’d been in the Bush administration’s shoes, wouldn’t you have started with what last worked. Only after having every liberal, high-powered law firm from DC to NYC offer themselves up for pro bono hours for terrorists did Congress get a resolution from the Supreme Court. For crying out loud, un-American liberals have strung this out for years.
BuckeyeSam on November 18, 2009 at 1:25 PM
And you can’t even help but prove my point regarding Bush by continually typing his name as a fallback when your argument isn’t cutting it.
You said you don’t see a whole lot of political upside to the move. Contrasting themselves with Bush IS the political move. If one of the more reasoned lefties like yourself can’t keep from digressing to Bush, how do you think this plays to the more rabid planks of the Democrat party?
BadgerHawk on November 18, 2009 at 1:26 PM
Blah, blah, blah, blah, fuck you America.
jukin on November 18, 2009 at 1:26 PM
If KSM and the others are defnitely guilty, definitely going to be found guilty, and definitely going to be severely punished, then why have a trial?
Holder sets out the criteria for his decision but provides none of the information he reviewed to select the criteria. If he wanted to ensure the inclusion of the maximum evidence, a likely verdict of guilty, a severe punishment, less chance of the release of classified information, and the minimal use of the court system as a venue for grandstanding, the military commission is the best choice.
This sort of reminds me of the OJ trial in which the prosecuters did not present all their evidence b/c they believed their case was a slam dunk with the evidence that they included. Maybe the DOJ thinks they have enough to convict, even if all the pre-Miranda evidence is excluded? That’s a helluva roll of the dice, particularly with a civilian jury in which only one jury member can nullify the entire process.
I thought Healthcare was Obama’s Waterloo, but maybe it’s this decision?
WordsMatter on November 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Good post.
BadgerHawk on November 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM
What’s caused most of the delays for the trials of these people have been the incessant appeals and actions by the lawyers for the terrorists and the willingness of the Court to grant cert.
That’s what has delayed everything.
We’ve had established procedures and rules that the Bush Administration was following.
But the courts – most specifically Justice Kennedy – keeps moving the goal posts.
Sure the White House can be criticized but let’s not absolve the Supreme Court for their contributions to this mess.
SteveMG on November 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM
I just want to know one thing. If it turn out that state secrets get revealed as they did in the previous civilian trial can we put Holder in prison like we did those attorneys?
patriotparty1 on November 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM
Bleeds Blue on November 18, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Dude..you got ripped to shreds here trying to Defend Obama and your true thoughts about this whole pathetic fiasco finally come out in the end.
Liberals….We all know what Obama really wants to do with these trials but just can’t come out and say. They want to try the Bush administration and in the end you sound like you agree with it. Oh and by the way…
The pentagon was also a target on 9/11. And alot of people think camp David was the 4th plane’s destination. So there goes that “crimes against civilians” argument. Why don’t you just admit that this move by Obama is indefensible?
Mord on November 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM
That naive attitude will keep you out of the Obama administration.
SKYFOX on November 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM
Obama did not want Bush to be credited with executing KSM.
Once again, self-serving politics comes before the good of the nation.
drjohn on November 18, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Wrong, dude. It was the Supreme Court that struck down the first system as blatantly unconstitutional, and bill creating the current system passed with significant Democratic support. If Bush read the Constitution — instead of those idiotic “unitary executive” memos, he might have gotten it right the first time.
Bleeds Blue on November 18, 2009 at 1:29 PM
If this is truly an attempt by Holder and co. to show how fair and open our civilian courts are, how can they say we guarantee that KSM will have a fair trial, even though we have already heard from Obama and Holder that KSM will never go free and is obviously guilty? How does this possibly make sense to the libs? It is total insanity. It will be viewed by the rest of the world as “the courts in the US are corrupt.” And they will be right.
di butler on November 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM
And to take what you’ve said a step further, by the time the prosecution begins to actually present its case in court, it may be 2012… just in time to use those proceedings to bash Bush, and by association, Repubs. Don’t put this kind of calculation past RhamAxelBama.
WordsMatter on November 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM
Nah, Bush really has nothing to do with the current debate. It’s just that I enjoy the irony of his screw-up creating this situation in the first place.
Bleeds Blue on November 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM
Good point, but I don’t think the
LibsStatists care about making sense, you’ll have to ask some of the trolls around here what the Statist Democrats really care about.Juno77 on November 18, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Right. Your side. Bunch of liberal idiots. The same liberal idiots who somehow found that the Geneva Conventions, which were written to encourage uniformed combatants, somehow bestowed enemy combatant status on non-uniformed terrorists. Thereby nullifying the entire purpose of the Conventions.
Brilliant.
misterpeasea on November 18, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Eric Holder, attorney general aka czar of the mistrial.
His law firm represented Gitmo detainees, any problems here?
dthorny on November 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM
So, it’s not really Booshes fault, but it is really Booshes fault?
Juno77 on November 18, 2009 at 1:38 PM
So why aren’t they using that system for these 5 terrorists?
I realize you’re on the tougher end of debate by sheer volume of comments coming your way, but it seems like you’re selectively leaving a lot of pretty important questions unanswered.
BadgerHawk on November 18, 2009 at 1:40 PM
Wonder how the President is going to splain that one Lucy? Ah, maybe no one heard that comment.
yoda on November 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM
Now your point is perfectly clear. You are the pot calling the kettle black. Treasonous conduct, the likes of which had never been seen in Congress before John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Tom Daschle, Joe Biden, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi all did their best to undermine a just and necessary war effort in 2003 in order to win elections for Dhimmicrats.
And here we are today. Where every liberal pro bono lawyer looking to make a lefty name for themselves spent billions of dollars worth of free legal effort to hamstring Bush Administration prosecution of KSM and Ramzi bin alSheib by filing every frivolous lawsuit known to the US legal system to stop the Bush administrations prosecutions of terrorists by military tribunal and claiming torture without a single shred of evidence. And a creep like you has the audacity to claim the Bush administration didn’t try hard enough to prosecute KSM for his crimes?
F*ck you and the horse you rode in on, you traitorous POS. I know exactly what you are now. A lying egotistical and wholly partisan worshipper of an ideology that would put the average American in prison and let KSM go free because he is somehow treated less than a Hollywood movie star.
I hope the weight of all those innocent lives snuffed out by KSM in an unjustified murderous terror attack crushes your conscience in the middle of the night while you sleep. You will only have brought it on yourself, boy.
Subsunk
Subsunk on November 18, 2009 at 1:46 PM
This takes the cake as the absolutely most completely stupid idea I’ve ever seen. Holder doesn’t recuse himself – mistrial. No Miranda warning before questioning – mistrial. No lawyer – mistrial. Command influence – mistrial. KSM acquitted – goes right back to Gitmo where he is now. No honest person can come to any conclusion other than this is political pandering to the left. Obama couldn’t close Gitmo, so “Look over here!!!” “I’m tough! I’m prosecuting terrorists!” It’s completely pathetic. And I wouldn’t care except that it’s dangerous. Suppose someone fires an RPG at the courthouse from a passing car? Suppose someone takes over a school full of kids and demands KSM’s release? Glad I don’t live in New York and I feel really sorry for those who do.
gordo on November 18, 2009 at 1:54 PM
Holder seems to be deeply afflicted with Professor Irwin Corey syndrome.
MB4 on November 18, 2009 at 1:55 PM
Holder is a lying incompetent in the same mold as Obama; Holder was in the upper management of the U.S. Justice Dept. during the Clinton administration, and there were no indictments issued for any terrorists during his tenure.
Cybergeezer on November 18, 2009 at 1:56 PM
To quote Sarah Palin – Bullcrap
katiejane on November 18, 2009 at 1:59 PM
What the hell does that mean?
commenter on November 18, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Holder (Obama) (Soros) is counting on either a Win-Win Situation or, at worst a Win-Lose situation
Win Win is where KSM gets convicted (death penalty thrown in is dessert). “See we told you that criminal court was the correct venue. You can always rely of the people’s good judgment and they have spoken loud and clear.” At the same time the Bush-Cheney-CIA “torture” techniques will be laid bare for the entire world to see. (The fact that these techniques saved thousands of lives and exposing CIA techniques compromises USA future security and, further, that such exposure opens the USA to world-wide UN condemnation propaganda is of little concern to these goal-oriented psychopaths,)”See you don’t have to resort to “Nazi” techniques to get a terrorist conviction. Bush-Cheney-CIA “torture” actually hurt us but we won notwithstanding. The people are great”
A lose-win situation is where there is a hung jury, dismissal of the case, acquittal, or a “slap-on-the-wrist” conviction. The win here is that Bush-Cheney-CIA “torture” can be blamed for the bad decision not Holder-Obama-Soros.
But what happens if a part of Manhattan disappears in a puff of smoke? “Well, you can’t win ‘em all.”
MaiDee on November 18, 2009 at 2:00 PM
They supported the guy who went to Vietnam for President in 2004, but haven’t been heard from since.
Until now, perhaps?
Del Dolemonte on November 18, 2009 at 2:00 PM
But, Obama had his fingers crossed, was not on U.S. soil, and he has power to transform his words before your very eyes.
Cybergeezer on November 18, 2009 at 2:03 PM
Taliban and Al Qaeda trainees have not been able to pass their marksmanship training since the announcement of the trials in New York; They can’t stop laughing.
Cybergeezer on November 18, 2009 at 2:07 PM
The trial for the Pentagon attack will be in a military tribunal. That’s a different case.
Del Dolemonte on November 18, 2009 at 2:07 PM
Whoops! Smooth move Mr. President.
yoda on November 18, 2009 at 2:08 PM
He interviewed a 9/11 survivor and a terrorist.
In the leftard world both are victims. One a victim of terrorism, the other a victim of evil Bush and Cheney.
But you knew that.
fogw on November 18, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Hey, I’m grabbing my popcorn and sitting down to watch this 3-ring circus. It won’t be long before the Dems will be crying, pleading with Obama to please stop it because it is making their side look like buffoons. Well, they are buffoons, but that’s beside the point.
kasubo on November 18, 2009 at 2:10 PM
Well it could be worse.
The fool could be President.
oh wait a minute…
notagool on November 18, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Holder started this circus by saying there would be a ‘satisfactory’ outcome, that ‘justice’ would be done. He did not define what those two words mean to him or to The Obama. Everyone assumes that ‘satisfactory’ and ‘justice’ means a conviction. Holder re-enforces that belief by stating, unequivocally, that KSM will be convicted.
Look back at the testimony quoted by Mr. Ed. Count the ‘I’s.
Holder is all alone on this, and if THE OBAMA does not get what he wants out of this, Holder is toast.
The question then, is what does Obama want out of this?
Skandia Recluse on November 18, 2009 at 2:14 PM
KSM and the other muslim terrorist scum captured in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq are not entitled to protections afforded by the US Constitution. They are NOT citizens. They are worse than pirates, but libtards constantly and stupidly insist they be treated like ordinary criminals.Bozo and his buddy just want to give the terrorists a platform. If you think the antics during Saddams trial were ridiculous, you ain\’t seen nothing.Ed is correct, this is just politically motivated. Bozo also wants the economic news off the front page. With this he kills two birds with one stone.
dogsoldier on November 18, 2009 at 2:17 PM
At this rate, Bush need do nothing to restore approval ratings– just wait for Hussein to do it for him.
leftnomore on November 18, 2009 at 2:21 PM
It is very interesting to hear the “conservative”, Lindsey Graham, trashing Holders decision to hold the trials in NYC. Dont forget, Mr. conservative, YOU voted to confirm Holder after hearing lots of protests from the right.
mobydutch on November 18, 2009 at 2:24 PM
KSM was not Mirandized. Are we saying that no ‘criminal’ needs to be Mirandized in the future? This trial sets horrible precedent.
daesleeper on November 18, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Hopefully there is another Jack Ruby out there who will gladly dispense some justice to KSM while he is in New York. Then we can watch the fun while the MSM fry Eric Holder for letting it happen. Everyone wins!
rockmom on November 18, 2009 at 2:31 PM
The globalist left is attacking our economic system, healthcare system, and now the judicial system.
I’m not sure what the endgame is, but a free and prosperous American populace is not in the picture.
Hope and Change…
daesleeper on November 18, 2009 at 2:32 PM
I haven’t read earlier posts, so I’m sorry if someone said this before. But for me, whether KSM is convicted or not is not the issue. I don’t care if he is found guilty, given the death sentence, and beheaded on Larry King Live. The issue for me is the giving away of our anti-terrorism secrets.
If David Hanssen (I think that’s his name) is serving life for selling secrets to the Soviets, shouldn’t Eric Holder be held likewise accountable? I am longing for someone in Congress to scream from the rafters that Holder must be removed, replaced, and tried for treason.
BitterClinger on November 18, 2009 at 2:56 PM
This is a flat out lie!
It would be true if he said we have convicted less than 1% of those responsible for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the attacks on our embassies in Africa.
The political appointee, Preet Bharara, you put in charge has ZERO history of handling these cases!
That’s right this guy, now a political appointee, that FAILED to make a case that political appointees are appointed to political position by politicians AND politics plays a roll in who politicians appoint to political positions.
D’ho!
DSchoen on November 18, 2009 at 3:24 PM
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