Graham grills Holder: Does Bin Laden need to be given his Miranda rights?

posted at 4:47 pm on November 18, 2009 by Allahpundit

Per the last post, here’s how “carefully” Holder consulted the law before pulling the trigger on KSM. Not only does Graham have to tell him that there’s no precedent for trying battlefield detainees in civilian court, but Holder’s emphasis on how we don’t need a confession to convict Bin Laden completely misses the larger point Graham’s trying to make. The real worry in a district-court trial isn’t what’ll happen to archterrorists like Osama or KSM, whose perpetual detention is assured; the worry is that those trials will establish precedents that’ll be exploited by lesser jihadis at their own trials later on. KSM won’t be released because the political consequences to the administration are too dire, but what about some other terrorist who’s less well known to the public and whose guilt, while certain to the CIA, is less provable under normal evidentiary rules? A confession in a case like that might be critical — but what if he wasn’t Mirandized before he confessed? What then? That’s Graham’s point, and Holder seems to want nothing to do with it.

Another thing. He refers here to the DOJ’s “protocol” for deciding which terrorists get civilian trials and which get military tribunals. Did he happen to mention at any point today what that protocol might be, precisely? Graham seems to think it’s “civilian trials for terrorists who kill civilians, military trials for terrorists who kill soldiers,” which would, of course, be utterly perverse. There’s another possibility, though, and one which jibes with Holder’s dopey fixation on not needing a confession to convict Bin Laden. Maybe they’re simply looking at the pile of admissible evidence they have for each detainee and deciding that guys with big piles go to civilian court, where they’re likely to be convicted anyway and The One can crow about “due process,” while guys with smaller piles go to military court, since a civilian trial might well result in them getting off. If that’s what they’re doing — i.e. a two-track justice system designed purely to maximize the government’s odds at conviction while minimizing the political risk of acquittal — then, like Patterico says, KSM’s trial is even more of a show trial than we thought. Presumably, if Holder thought we did need confessions to convict him and/or Bin Laden, the plan to try them in Manhattan would be scuttled and they’d be off to a tribunal to make things easier on the prosecution. The decision on what “due process” is due, in other words, is based not on the nature of the underlying act — war perpetrated by a foreign enemy — but on the outcome The One wants to achieve, with Holder actually going so far today as to say, I kid you not, “Failure is not an option.” Isn’t failure always an option in a true due-process regime?


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Want to bet that this will lead to more killing and less captures? I will.

CWforFreedom on November 18, 2009 at 5:46 PM

If I’m on the ground, realizing that a terrorist or his minion I’ve just come upon, might get a trial in NYC and get off on technicalities, he’s meeting his 72 virgins, stat.

Either way, I lose what he may know about future attacks, so I’m his personal death panel.

TXUS on November 18, 2009 at 5:56 PM

I just think Lindsey ate his lunch. He could be polite by the end. The points were made clearly and succinctly, and Holder had to reveal the truth of the matter, which is that there is no purpose behind this decision that is logical.

AnninCA on November 18, 2009 at 5:57 PM

KUDOS to Graham. He could represent “KSM”. And win a defense verdict.

Marcus on November 18, 2009 at 5:59 PM

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) and other al Qaeda operatives will be put on trial in New York City civilian federal court. KSM, the mastermind of 9/11, is not an American citizen and never has been. Together with Osama bin Laden, KSM selected the 9/11 terrorists, arranged their financing and training, and ran the whole operation –from abroad. American and Pakistani intelligence forces captured KSM on March 1, 2003, in –Rawalpindi, Pakistan. Bin Laden had already declared war on the United States, and he remains free to this day.

Now, though, KSM and his co-defendants will enjoy the benefits and rights that the US Constitution accords to US citizens and resident aliens—including the right to demand that the government produce in open court all witnesses and accusers, including intelligence operatives, and all of the information that it has on them, and how they got it.

Trying KSM in civilian court will be an intelligence bonanza for al Qaeda and all hostile nations that will view the U.S. intelligence methods and sources that such a trial will reveal. Prosecutors will be forced to reveal U.S. intelligence on KSM, the methods and sources for acquiring its information, and his relationships to fellow al Qaeda operatives. The information will enable al Qaeda to drop plans and personnel whose cover is blown. It will enable it to detect our means of intelligence-gathering, and to push forward into areas we know nothing about yet which endangers all people world-wide.

This is not hypothetical. This is fact. During the 1993 World Trade Center bombing trial of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman (aka the “blind Sheikh”), standard civilian criminal trial rules required the government to turn over to the defendants a list of 200 possible co-conspirators.

In essence, that list was a sketch of American intelligence on al Qaeda. It was delivered to Osama bin Laden in Sudan on a silver platter within days of its production as a court exhibit. Bin Laden, who was on the list, could immediately see who was compromised. He also could get a jump-start figuring out how American intelligence had learned its information and anticipate what our future moves were likely to be at that time.

Hence, the civilian trial of “the blind Sheikh” most definitely later resulted in assisting Osama Bin Laden, KSM, and their co-conspirators to plan and execute the successful attacks on the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon on September 11, 2001 that resulted in the deaths of thousands of American citizens, American military personnel, and the destruction of two skyscrapers and part of the Pentagon. If not for the selfless sacrificial bravery of the passengers on United Airlines Flight 93, the destruction of our nation’s capital, or even the White House, would have been assured as well.

President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder have to know this. How can they not know these things? But they are going forward with the civilian trial of KSM and his co-defendants in a civilian court in the USA anyways. They co-conspire to do this despite the grave danger of further death and destruction at the hands of terrorist’s and jihadist’s that the civilian trial will bring to American citizens, and the United States of America itself. Not to mention the judicial precedents and resulting case law that will tie up our courts and judges for years, and shred our Constitution, if KSM’s successful prosecution is already a ‘forgone conclusion’.

By going forward with this civilian trial of the mastermind of the most diabolical attack on America and American citizens at the hands of foreign enemies in history, they are directly responsible for all of the damage to our hard earned intelligence and our means of intelligence gathering that has, and currently still does, prevent further terrorist attacks in the US and abroad. The sacrifices of countless people whom have suffered and even died to keep America and our allies safe from further terrorist attacks since 9/11 will be for nothing.

By doing this, with knowledge aforethought and with specific intent, President Barack Hussein Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder are directly endangering untold numbers of Americans on American soil, and abroad, and have also therefore declared themselves enemys of the state in the process.

As a law abiding tax paying American citizen, I now demand the arrest and incarceration of Attorney General Eric Holder and the impeachment and prosecution of President Barack Hussein Obama as co-conspirators and enemys of the state.

SilverStar830 on November 18, 2009 at 6:01 PM

This is a complete and fracking fiasco.

I loathe this administration.

BuckeyeSam on November 18, 2009 at 6:02 PM

According to former Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet, when 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was apprehended in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, in March 2003, his first response to his captors was to sneer “I’ll talk to you guys after I get to New York and see my lawyer.”

He also, if I recall, lasted the longest during water board sessions. This could be an interesting trial, if as rumored, he represents himself. His bio on wikipedia is worth the read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Sheikh_Mohammed

However the main event remains the trial of the US/Bush on torture charges–Holder’s main objective.

patrick neid on November 18, 2009 at 6:02 PM

Please, everyone, Graham is putting on a show. HE VOTED TO CONFIRM HOLDER AMID STRONG PROTESTS!!!!!

mobydutch on November 18, 2009 at 6:06 PM

mobydutch on November 18, 2009

Graham: Don’t look at this hand, you Carolina rubes, look at the other one.

SKYFOX on November 18, 2009 at 6:09 PM

Please, everyone, Graham is putting on a show. HE VOTED TO CONFIRM HOLDER AMID STRONG PROTESTS!!!!!

mobydutch on November 18, 2009 at 6:06 PM

More Graham-derangement….Can’t you give credit where it’s due? He certainly wasn’t the only Repub. to vote for confirming Holder at the time.

JetBoy on November 18, 2009 at 6:13 PM

It is beyond belief that we have ended up with mental midgets ruling this country.

This Holder guy can’t think on his feet. He is flat-out stupid. And to compound it, he is blinded either by ideology, or more likely in his case by a profound hatred of this country.

There aren’t any words to describe the depth of the tragedy that has happened to our country.

We would be better off with Charles Manson in charge, At least then we would have somebody who wouldn’t pretend to act like a rational and sentient creature.

notagool on November 18, 2009 at 6:17 PM

Playing to both ends of his constituency, in typical Graham fashion (ie Sotomayor) he comes on hard, makes solid points and then backs off.

diogenes on November 18, 2009 at 6:17 PM

When Lindsey Graham has you stuttering and stammering about how to try Bin Laden, you are way over your head as Attorney General.

d1carter on November 18, 2009 at 6:19 PM

More Graham-derangement….Can’t you give credit where it’s due? He certainly wasn’t the only Repub. to vote for confirming Holder at the time.

JetBoy on November 18, 2009

Credit for what? Having all the boldness of a toothless chihuahua? Fact is, this thread is about Graham. Start one about the other Republicans who voted for Holder and we’ll be happy to abuse them too.

SKYFOX on November 18, 2009 at 6:23 PM

I like Grahamn when he’s like this. Too bad he’s a democrat.

LtE126 on November 18, 2009 at 6:31 PM

Credit for what? Having all the boldness of a toothless chihuahua? Fact is, this thread is about Graham. Start one about the other Republicans who voted for Holder and we’ll be happy to abuse them too.

SKYFOX on November 18, 2009 at 6:23 PM

Yeah, OK. Lindsey Graham is the “enemy”. *rolls eyes*

JetBoy on November 18, 2009 at 6:36 PM

How did Michael Moore even fit into the body costume of a medium-sized black guy?

Osama as innocent until proven guilty is his venal schtick.

Hitler never had a proper trial, either!

Free Adolf’s Sullied Memory!

Holder’s law firm would take such a case in a second.

Scum.

Someone at this hearing needed to simply YELL at Holder that he is a DAMNED FOOL.

Period.

This p.c. pussyfooting is going to get MORE people killed.

profitsbeard on November 18, 2009 at 6:37 PM

Well, Lindsey Graham often makes very good sense to me. He’s excellent at articulating the meat behind conservative positions often.

I’d sure hate to see people get rid of those voices. They are valuable. As for voting for nominations, I think that more people should not squander their political ammunition on the administration’s choices. There are, sincerely, consequences to winning an election.

Unless it’s egregious, the Administration should get whom they want.

AnninCA on November 18, 2009 at 6:46 PM

Graham could’ve helped avoid this situation by filibustering Holder, but No. Instead, he bought into the media meme that criticizing anything Obama back then was “racist”, and like the cowering twit blue blood Republicans he is he retreated. Suck it up, Lindsey.

SouthernGent on November 18, 2009 at 6:53 PM

Wait, you mean Bin Laden is not caught, I remember Obama saying that was going to be his highest priority, that he was going to capture him…
Graham makes good points, others can make the same points…Graham has to go. His negatives far out weigh his positives…any attorney can ask what he asks.
He let Holder off the hook, which was just wrong, he had him trapped.

right2bright on November 18, 2009 at 6:54 PM

When Lindsey Graham has you stuttering and stammering about how to try Bin Laden, you are way over your head as Attorney General.

d1carter on November 18, 2009 at 6:19 PM

And then he let him go…spineless…ending with, I hope to talk to you more because we agree on so many other issues…girlie man…

right2bright on November 18, 2009 at 6:56 PM

ANY first year law student should know the DOJ has NO jurisdiction, Holder knows this! The ONLY jurisdiction to try ANYONE captured on ANY battlefield is the UCMJ.
Holder intends on allowing and assisting in the ACLU in conducting a witch hunt to expose and destroy our intelligence system.
Here is what will happen IF these animals are even convicted;
The ACLU will take this to appeal, the appeals court will find the DOJ has no jurisdiction and these animals will be set free because they were falsely given protection under our Constitution and CANNOT be retried under the Double Jeopardy Clause.
Holder knows this, Obama knows this, the ACLU knows this, but Grahamnesty is too stupid to know this or too gutless to say it.
Meanwhile any trial in civilian court will be a farce. The CIA, the Bush Administration and the entire military will be on trial here, NOT the terrorists and THAT is the objective of the Obama Administration.

nelsonknows on November 18, 2009 at 6:57 PM

The question he should have asked to Holder.

If I, Lyndsey Graham or any US citizen, had planned this attack with stated goals that I am at war with the United States and want to kill the leadership and populace I would be charged with treason and sedition. Are we charging KSM with that? Why not?

bluemarlin on November 18, 2009 at 6:58 PM

“Failure is not an option.”

What b.s. Unless the trial is fixed, which would kind of negate their whole trust the justice system argument, failure is always an option in the American court system. A lot will depend on whether KSM gets a good defense attorney, and something tells me he will.

mbs on November 18, 2009 at 7:06 PM

Graham could’ve helped avoid this situation by filibustering Holder, but No. Instead, he bought into the media meme that criticizing anything Obama back then was “racist”

I think a lot of the long-term senators think that wasting time fighting over appointments is grandstanding and waste taxpayer’s money.

Frankly, I agree. The guy won. Give him his choices. He’ll have to live with it, anyway.

AnninCA on November 18, 2009 at 7:07 PM

Gotta give it to Grahmnesty, when he’s not stabbing us in the back, he has his moments

MyImamToldMeToDoIt on November 18, 2009 at 5:05 PM

I’ll agree with that. I recall his defense of some aspect of the war on terror awhile back and I was thinking, this is Grahmnesty?

aikidoka on November 18, 2009 at 7:11 PM

I love graham. He showboats when he knows the camera is on him. Then he backs down when it really counts. I am tired of these pompous politicians on both sides.

cubbieblue25 on November 18, 2009 at 7:14 PM

I have a serious question people, help me out because I’m lost. I think this is an even better question but I can’t understand it.

In the very beginning of Graham’s questioning, he basically asks Holder if it’s true that, in the event KSM got off or was given a small sentence, we’d hold him here anyway. Holder, more or less, agrees and says yes, we’d hold him here anyway.

If that’s true, then why, oh why, are we trying this bastard at all?

Seriously, I can’t figure it out. I don’t get it.

Somebody please fill me in. What am I missing?

Russ

russcote on November 18, 2009 at 7:19 PM

But then, we’re talking about Graham here, aren’t we?

AUINSC on November 18, 2009 at 5:02 PM

Yeah, you moron. You are the only true patriot left in the country. Everyone else is crazy!

rightistliberal on November 18, 2009 at 7:27 PM

I’ll agree with that. I recall his defense of some aspect of the war on terror awhile back and I was thinking, this is Grahmnesty?

aikidoka on November 18, 2009 at 7:11 PM

If you actually paid attention to his positions…being in Senate is not the same as being a quitter and writing on facebook.

rightistliberal on November 18, 2009 at 7:29 PM

And then he let him go…spineless…ending with, I hope to talk to you more because we agree on so many other issues…girlie man…

right2bright on November 18, 2009 at 6:56 PM

Yeah, he should have boxed him right there.

Yes, you brave anonymous internet warrior.

rightistliberal on November 18, 2009 at 7:31 PM

These children who are running the show now need to pull their heads out of their collectivist a$$e$.

You start giving terrorists the same rights as we give every other criminal in this country and you end up with some seriously dangerous “unintended” consequences. Every year you read about some sick bastard who slaughtered an innocent person getting off scott free, despite a mountain of evidence to convict, due to a technicality. Here in Oregon a few years ago we had some sick bastard have his conviction of RAPING then KILLING a 3 year old girl overturned. The evidence was solid, even had DNA to tie him to it without a shadow of a doubt. No one, not even the judge that set him free, doubted his guilt. He was freed because his lawyer managed to convict an appeals judge that he was denied a speedy trial. After HIS OWN LAWYER delayed and delayed trial, when the prosecution needed to delay it as well due to who knows what, apparently too much time had passed, so the appeals judge freed this murderer. As far as I know he’s still sucking air and walking free today.

Do we want such travesties occurring with people who will just get right back in the fight and take another stab at killing American’s if the legal system frees them on a technicality?

flyfishingdad on November 18, 2009 at 7:40 PM

Never bet something you’re not willing to lose.

29Victor on November 18, 2009 at 7:41 PM

Do we want such travesties occurring with people who will just get right back in the fight and take another stab at killing American’s if the legal system frees them on a technicality?

flyfishingdad on November 18, 2009 at 7:40 PM

FFD, that’s my question here. Graham asked Holder if KSM were acquitted, whether we’d hold him anyway. Holder said yes.

Well, if we’re going to keep him here regardless of the outcome…why the F&$# are we trying him at all and giving Al-Queda a worldwide audience to blow some more people up?

Somebody, please, tell me what I’m missing here.

Thanks.

Russ

russcote on November 18, 2009 at 7:44 PM

russcote on November 18, 2009 at 7:19 PM

I have my suspicions about why, but beyond that, what about the precedents that are set here? Assume, that he does get a light sentence and is held anyway….how easily could that become twisted an turned to apply to other situations.

Why do some get tried in civilian courts and some in military? What decides who goes where? Is the message now that it is best to slaughter civilians in order to get greater protections and, probably even more important to a jihadist nut, a megaphone with which to grandstand and rail against America?

stldave on November 18, 2009 at 7:49 PM

russcote on November 18, 2009 at 7:44 PM

I think they like the idea of have some of the tactics used being brought into a very public forum, but don’t have the balls to do it another way. They’re banking they’ll get their conviction, and the result they want, and get some damaging stuff on their political enemies in the meantime. I don’t see any other way to read it.

stldave on November 18, 2009 at 7:52 PM

Senator Graham, well done, sir!

NavyMustang on November 18, 2009 at 7:56 PM

stldave on November 18, 2009 at 7:49 PM

Oh there’s no question that the precedent setting here is literally disastrous in countless ways.

But for me, the fact that Eric Holder and Barack Obama are willingly and knowingly putting on a show trial in New York City of the man who engineered September 11th…is literally the stuff conspiracy theories are made of.

I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any means. But the fact that this trial is completely useless because the outcome is already predetermined, knowing full well that Al-Queda is salivating to blow something up live on American TV, is just outrageous of the highest order in my mind.

Then…then you tack on your concerns in the aftermath and the disaster this causes down the road…

Russ

russcote on November 18, 2009 at 7:56 PM

I think they like the idea of have some of the tactics used being brought into a very public forum, but don’t have the balls to do it another way.
stldave on November 18, 2009 at 7:52 PM

Wait…Do you mean like giving the defense a chance to bitch about waterboarding? I don’t follow you. What ‘tactics’?

Thanks for the response St.LD

Russ

russcote on November 18, 2009 at 8:10 PM

Please, everyone, Graham is putting on a show. HE VOTED TO CONFIRM HOLDER AMID STRONG PROTESTS!!!!!

mobydutch on November 18, 2009 at 6:06 PM

I think that makes this clip all the more relevant.

Marcus on November 18, 2009 at 8:17 PM

It is apparent to me that Mr. Graham was badgering Mr. Holder. He should be sanctioned. Shame, shame, shame.

B.A.Freeman on November 18, 2009 at 8:43 PM

Graham for once makes some very valid, very reasoned points and then slays it by groveling before Holder. . .

Willie on November 18, 2009 at 8:43 PM

This could be one of the shortest trials in history.

Defense attorney: “Mr Khalid Shitbag Mohammed- where you read your Miranda rights upon your arrest?”

Khalid Shitbag Mohammed: “No.” “Death to America.”

Defense attorney: “Mr. WhoeverthefuckarrestedKSM- did you read Mr. Khalid Shitbag Mohammed his Miranda rights upon his arrest?”

Mr. WhoeverthefuckarrestedKSM: “No sir, I did not”.

Defense attorney: “Your Honor, I move that the case against Khalid Shitbag Mohammed be dismissed.”

Judge: “Case dismissed.”

justltl on November 18, 2009 at 8:51 PM

Graham for once makes some very valid, very reasoned points and then slays it by groveling before Holder. . .

Willie on November 18, 2009 at 8:43 PM
-

+1

diogenes on November 18, 2009 at 8:57 PM

justltl on November 18, 2009 at 8:51 PM

First, trust me it’s not that easy. Failure to read someone their Miranda rights is never de facto grounds for dismissal.

And second, that’s my point. Even if that happens, KSM goes back to GITMO, or wherever we’re holding prisoners of war at that time.

So why are we having the trial at all?

Fork…ear….

Help.

Russ

russcote on November 18, 2009 at 9:09 PM

American Power tracked-back with, “Leftists Call Conservatives ‘Cowards’”.

Donald Douglas on November 18, 2009 at 9:21 PM

I can’t wait for Russia, Iran, Syria, China and North Korea to start lecturing us about “fair trials”.

darwin-t on November 18, 2009 at 9:27 PM

One of the guys on Greg Garrison’s show this morning – (I think it was Michael Ledeen) told how Holder’s former law firm was big in representing Gitmo miscreants, CAIR and the Muslim Brotherhood and some of these people have been appointed to the Justice Dept.

So it’s only natural Holder would do what he’s doing

darwin-t on November 18, 2009 at 9:44 PM

Wait…Do you mean like giving the defense a chance to bitch about waterboarding? I don’t follow you. What ‘tactics’?

Thanks for the response St.LD

Russ

russcote on November 18, 2009 at 8:10 PM

Heck, who knows? They can call into question every process related breakdown that happened. They could even raise questions around things that didn’t happen.

It’s always hard to put yourself in a liberals shoes, but I’m assuming their mindset is something like this. First, they think this case is so slamdunk that they’ll have it in the bag, so they can have their cake and eat it too. At the end of the day, they’re fine with gambling with the 99% likelihood they’ll get the result everyone wants, and in the meantime there will be all kinds of “teachable moments” where they can second guess any overreaches from government agencies and the prior administration.

They may be thinking they can get the result people they want, give their base the red meat they crave, and somehow still play themselves as detached from it all for the rest of us. That’s a pretty tough trifecta to nail down. From my perspective it’s shortsighted, petty, stupid, and dangerous.

Really, I don’t know though. Hard to make sense of this.

stldave on November 18, 2009 at 9:46 PM

Somebody help me understand: what’s in this for Obama? The Pres. said it was Holder’s decision to move the trial to New York.

Obama is screwing NYC, a huge enclave of Democrat support. He’s not only humiliating the citizens of NYC, but probably scaring the crap out of them because of threat of another terrorist attack.

Is Obama really that desirous to create yet another crisis de jour?

Or is he that STUPID?

Pazman on November 18, 2009 at 9:46 PM

This could be one of the shortest trials in history…

justltl on November 18, 2009 at 8:51 PM

Man, that was hilarious.

Pazman on November 18, 2009 at 9:50 PM

Graham to Holder: “You made a fundamental mistake”

Obama: “I want to fundamentally change America.”

JellyToast on November 18, 2009 at 9:57 PM

After Granting Terrorists Miranda Rights, Obama Authorizes Use of Lawyers to Act as Terrorists’ Human Shields http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/06/after-granting-terrorists-miranda.html

Mervis Winter on November 18, 2009 at 10:31 PM

Why won’t they just admit that they want to put the Bush administration on trial and the only way to do that is to let a disgusting terrorist complain about how he’s been treated up until now.

Now, he’ll get a “fair” trial which we are assured will end with a conviction and receive the death penalty during sentencing.

Everything was wrong before Jan. 20, 2009. Now, The One has come to make everything right.

jana on November 18, 2009 at 10:43 PM

Here’s a question I would like to see asked:

“Mr. Holder, you said that ‘failure is not an option’ with the the prosecution of KSM. Now my question is simply this: Since this is a criminal trial, does not KSM enjoy the presumption of innocence? If not, why not? And if so, how do you reconcile the fact that he is presumed to be innocent with your statement that ‘failure is not an option’?”

PackerBronco on November 18, 2009 at 10:54 PM

SilverStar830 on November 18, 2009 at 6:01 PM

You, sir, get a Kewpie doll.
KSM is NOT an American Citizen.
He committed NO crimes on U.S. soil.
He was brought to this country against his will.

IF a jury manages to be picked for this sham (which I doubt) and a judge manages to get through the circus of a trial, and the Feds manage to keep the lid on the classified info, the judge would probably be required to give a directed verdict.
IF he did not, there will be appeals. AND KSM has NO chance of being set free. The precedent here is remarkably perilous to the citizenry of this country and we’re sitting on our hands.
This is surreal.

TinMan13 on November 18, 2009 at 11:00 PM

I can’t wait for Russia, Iran, Syria, China and North Korea to start lecturing us about “fair trials”.

darwin-t on November 18, 2009 at 9:27 PM

No. They will kidnap Americans and put them on trial for ‘crimes against humanity’ and then execute them.

TinMan13 on November 18, 2009 at 11:02 PM

Meanwhile any trial in civilian court will be a farce. The CIA, the Bush Administration and the entire military will be on trial here, NOT the terrorists and THAT is the objective of the Obama Administration.

nelsonknows on November 18, 2009 at 6:57 PM

Obama/Holder are doing an end run around the American people’s opposition to show trials for those who implemented Bush-ear intelligence practices.

Well, if we’re going to keep him here regardless of the outcome…why the F&$# are we trying him at all and giving Al-Queda a worldwide audience to blow some more people up? russcote on November 18, 2009 at 7:44 PM

Because it is a show trial, and it isn’t about KSM. It’s about the evil fascist Bush and his evil fascistic keeping America safe, when America should indeed be punished and humiliated for all of its crimes against people of color throughout its history. America must be cut down to size. /Obamaspeak

smellthecoffee on November 18, 2009 at 11:18 PM

As a Marine, that we read Miranda to anyone on the Battlefield is an abomination.

the Coondawg on November 19, 2009 at 1:32 AM

“As a law abiding tax paying American citizen, I now demand the arrest and incarceration of Attorney General Eric Holder and the impeachment and prosecution of President Barack Hussein Obama as co-conspirators and enemys of the state.”
SilverStar830 on November 18, 2009 at 6:01 PM

I second the motion, with the addition of Biden, Pelosi & Reid. All co-conspirators in this Administration’s gutting of the Constitution of the United States of America. They have neglected their sworn duty to “protect and uphold” said document and along with Obama and Holder should be charged with “dereliction of duty” among other things.

hopefloats on November 19, 2009 at 3:18 AM

Lindsey Graham and every other Republican who aids and abets the Obama administration in things like appointing Holder, need to be replaced, in order to reset our Republic. THEN….the next conservative administration needs to announce criminal investigations of the Obama administration and it’s enablers.

davecatbone on November 19, 2009 at 5:49 AM

Holder is a total toadie. He does what he’s told and makes an ass of himself in front of the country. We know his history of freeing terrorists(faln) for political gain. Graham will be posturing for the folks back home until amnesty comes up again.

Kissmygrits on November 19, 2009 at 9:52 AM

Since when does the Military fall under the jurisidiction of law enforcement? What LAW, did KSM break? Unlwafully plotting to destroy private property? Endangering the lives of others? Murder?
First off, i am gladd that Linsey Graham had the Audacity to grow a pair and hit holder where it counts.
Secodnly, holder’s stance on this is completely bass ackwards. If they are criminals, then get the FBI after them. If they are war criminals, treat them as such.

I think what this is going to turn out to be is a bashing of the Bush administration and even going to the extent of putting the Bush administration on trial for war crimes.
You put KSM and any other cronie in public court, giving him rights as a citizen of the US, not only do you lower the stature of a US citizen, but you allow KSM full access to all documents and evidence against him, whether it is subject to national security or not. You also all the defense to call as witnesses those against him, such as Bush and Cheney. You also, if it comes to the point, allow the ACLU to step in and fight for KSM’s rights.

The Military is not a law enforcement. I think this falls under Posse Comotatus. These enemy combatants, as i have heard, under the Geneva Convention, are considered war criminals and should be treated as such.

Bottomline; this is some careful manuevering by Obama and his admins, to lay the blame at the feet of the American people if things go bad. To expose the Bush administration and opening them up for prosecution as war criminals for attacking Iraq, even though it was bin Laden and KSM who attacked us first.

Holder should be fore warned that, by making these choices, he puts himself into the mix as well. Things go bad, he might be up on charges himself.

Orion Prime on November 19, 2009 at 10:20 AM

Failure is not an option, it’s a certainty with idiots like Holder and his boss at the helm. Icebergs, ho!

Ay Uaxe on November 19, 2009 at 1:33 PM

There’s a C-SPAN3?

As for Holder… the motto may In God We Trust but I’m not sure if even an act of God can save us from this incompetence.

Yakko77 on November 19, 2009 at 3:22 PM

Want to bet that this will lead to more killing and less captures? I will.

CWforFreedom on November 18, 2009 at 5:46 PM

Exactly what I been sayin all along.” What prisoners”?? They resisted with deadly force,or whoops fell out of the chopper, or the mosque was ready to fall down anyway.

flyoverboy on November 19, 2009 at 3:42 PM

I can only conclude that this is to provide a format so that the focus is back on waterboarding and Cheney/Bush. That’s quite politically cynical.

AnninCA on November 18, 2009 at 5:16 PM

This is the only way to put Bush on trial. The hatred of Bush is so deep that Holder and company are willing to let this disaster happen.

RBE on November 19, 2009 at 3:46 PM

Want to bet that this will lead to more killing and less captures? I will.

CWforFreedom on November 18, 2009 at 5:46 PM

Can’t say I’ll lose much sleep over the prospect. A dead tango is a good tango I say.

Troops adapt and if the ROE make taking these scumbags alive to be too much of a threat and a burden to them then they’ll do what is necessary.

Yakko77 on November 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM

This is the only way to put Bush on trial. The hatred of Bush is so deep that Holder and company are willing to let this disaster happen.

RBE on November 19, 2009 at 3:46 PM

Speaking of disasters, the KSM trial epitomizes so perfectly the newly-minted Obonics term “Man-Caused Disaster”.

Sweet_Thang on November 19, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Have Holder post Bin Ladens miranda rights on You tube.

Cybergeezer on November 19, 2009 at 4:17 PM

“………….a nation of laws, not of men.”
cs89 on November 18, 2009 at 4:54 PM

What our Founding Fathers intended;
But the D’ohbama administration is acting against established and agreed to conventions that the United States is signatory to: Such as the Geneva Convention, International Tribunal at Nuremberg, and other treaties with NATO, the U.N., and other international treaties.
What this administration is getting the United States into, by these actions, is vendettas that will bring down international condemnation on our justice system.
And D’ohbama is supposed to be a Constitutional scholar; Another cruel joke on the American People.

Cybergeezer on November 19, 2009 at 6:13 PM

Graham could’ve helped avoid this situation by filibustering Holder, but No. Instead, he bought into the media meme that criticizing anything Obama back then was “racist”, and like the cowering twit blue blood Republicans he is he retreated. Suck it up, Lindsey.

SouthernGent on November 18, 2009 at 6:53 PM

Graham’s inquiries were spot-on, and demonstrated beyond all doubt that the Senator is an imbecile for confirming this fraud, this assclown, this legal ignoramus as the Attorney General of the United States.

Great job, you RINO POS, Lindsay.

Jaibones on November 19, 2009 at 9:47 PM

I’m coming to this late, so please forgive me if I’m repeating an earlier point:

No murdering messianic Islamist fanatic is ever going to be convicted in an American court again. Not ever.

Put yourself in the mind of a future KSM juror. You’re on a celebrity case getting more media attention and sequestered room service than the OJ jury. Sure, the law is going to keep cameras off your face in the courtroom, but there are plenty of people in there and your identity will be known eventually.

KSM might be guilty as sin, but before you vote to convict or vindicate, you will be thinking about the cost of that vote. How will you be made to pay for a “guilty” vote? Who in your family might pay? Your kids? The people you pass judgment on kill people for drawing cartoons. Do you think they’ll give you a pass? Do you think the government will protect your identity?

Give a jury the time to think about it and the repeated assurance from Holder that KSM is not going anywhere and suddenly, “not guilty” is looking pretty damn sweet. The Obama administration will have squandered all its goodwill by the time the case ends and no one will care about giving him another media nightmare. And never mind what pressures will be put on the administration to release KSM should he be exonerated. In the moment of decision, the juror has developed a decent and persuasive rationale for saving his/her own skin without expecting KSM to go free.

These guys will be found not guilty. Just wait and see.

Cricket624 on November 19, 2009 at 10:27 PM

FFD, that’s my question here. Graham asked Holder if KSM were acquitted, whether we’d hold him anyway. Holder said yes.

Well, if we’re going to keep him here regardless of the outcome…why are we trying him at all and giving Al-Queda a worldwide audience to blow some more people up?

Liberal Democratic philosophy is a mental illness, that’s why.

scotash on November 19, 2009 at 10:42 PM

Credit for what? Having all the boldness of a toothless chihuahua? Fact is, this thread is about Graham. Start one about the other Republicans who voted for Holder and we’ll be happy to abuse them too.

SKYFOX on November 18, 2009 at 6:23 PM

Yeah, OK. Lindsey Graham is the “enemy”. *rolls eyes*

JetBoy on November 18, 2009 at 6:36 PM

In terms of getting back to conservative principles and small government, Graham is an “enemy”. He stays elected by doing the right thing every once in a while (I’ll be the first to admit I thoroughly enjoyed his grilling Holder), but on the whole he does a lot of harm by constantly compromising with the statists and stabbing conservatives in the back when he thinks it will suit him. Graham knows the political winds are shifting against teh One and his loathsome administration. Don’t be fooled, he still needs to go.

SG1_Conservative on November 19, 2009 at 11:35 PM

http://www.veteranoutrage.com

This is so stinking insane

Ask these dumb shit liberal laywers this question
following the same logic
If we had caught Adolf Hitler on a ship
on the high seas on DEC 8 1941.
And we just grabbed his sorry ass
and put him in club Gitmo..

Since he wasnt read his miranda rights
His right to remain silent (in german) of course
His right to a speedy trial (In german of course)
His right to a trial of his peers (whos peers the ss or gestapo)?
His right to cross examine his accuser (the us government)
His right to all of the classified information gathered by the us government

His right to know the NAMES of all the OSS (precurser to the CIA) and FBI agents who were on his case..

His right to know who authorized his wire taps..

Would he be held ?
Tried?
Or most likely with these dumb shit liberal laywers
Hitler following their twisted logic
was the victim of a vast right wing conspiracy
and therefore the us governemnt
would be forced to give hitler all of the information about all the spies we had in his home town..

Hitler would be released
The liberals would apologize to hitler profusly
The liberals would demand reperations to the Naiz regime
i mean how dare you judge the nazi ss ???

and then when hitler was returned to germany on a us military aircraft

as soon as it landed hitler would order it shot down as it took off
and all the agents beheaded..

Friggin morons..

veteranoutrage on November 20, 2009 at 2:09 AM

Given what’s already been said by Barry and Eric “Lionel Hutz” Holder, it will be a miracle this traveshamockery won’t be declared a mistrial on day one.

Fed45 on November 20, 2009 at 4:35 AM

Speaking of disasters, the KSM trial epitomizes so perfectly the newly-minted Obonics term “Man-Caused Disaster”.
Sweet_Thang on November 19, 2009 at 3:59 PM

No, that sadly was on November 4th, 2008.

dthorny on November 20, 2009 at 7:31 AM

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