First off, your info did not prove that “Social Conservatives” voted for Jimmy Carter. What really happened was Nixon was tarred and feathered because of the Watergate scandal and him resigning.

Really? Social Conservatives did not vote for Jimmy Carter? Must have been all those northeastern liberals in the Deep South that somehow overwhelmed all those great Republican Social Conservatives votes.

And, Jimmy Carter was a social conservative too. All he had to do was bring up being born again, and people in the deep south couldn’t wait to vote for him. And if it was just about Watergate, when why did all the western Republican states support Ford? I guess because he did not talk about being “Born Again” and all that, Ford apparently wasnt good enough and Carter was. Apparently all those RINO small government Republicans actually supported the Republican candidate…

If you think social conservatives supporting “born again” Carter in 1976 over Ford (who the traditional small government Republicans supporting him) had nothing to do with social conservatism, then I have some ocean beachfront here in Idaho to sell you.

As far as me accusing you of being “Liberal”, that has to do with you saying that we should only be concerned with Conservative Fiscal policies and that we should abandon Conservative Social policies. I hear this alot from RINOs and if you still believe that money is all that matters when we elect Government officials, then you should just proudly wear the shoe that fits.

How can the GOP getting back to its REAL ROOTS of small government and fiscal conservatism being “abandoning” you social conservatives, when your group came rather late to the GOP and are not even the founders of the party anyways? The Republican party has a long tradition of being for small government and staying out of peoples lives as much as is possible, along with fiscal conservatism.

If you actually think small government fiscal conservatism is “Liberal”, no wonder so many traditional Republicans are have scared off being social conservatives. Gee, I thought “Liberals” were for more big goverment, especially that promotes their own set of values. You can not find any position that I have that is leftist at all, but you continue with rather misinformed positions totally ignorant of history and seem lost in some wonderland where social conservatives apparently started the GOP and anyone who is not one and believers in small government is some darned “liberal”

Small Government traditional Republicans and Independents are actually much more opposite of Big Government Lefties, than social conservatives are. Both the Lefties, and Social Conservatives, think it is the governments job to promote the “correct” social values and put them into law and the schools.

Its us (liberal to you) small government types who want the government to do its job such as in fiscal matters (which is its constitutional job) and get out of our lives the rest of the time and not tell people how to live. You might notice the constitution does not empower the Federal Government to tell people how to live, but it does charge them to handle the fiscal matters of governance, which is exactly where we would like the GOP to get back to.

firepilot on November 18, 2009 at 6:51 PM

First off, your info did not prove that “Social Conservatives” voted for Jimmy Carter. What really happened was Nixon was tarred and feathered because of the Watergate scandal and him resigning. Then Ford furthered the outrage by pardoning Nixon. I believe that what you saw. The voting was based on this main fact, and not because Ford was a Social Conservative.
As far as me accusing you of being “Liberal”, that has to do with you saying that we should only be concerned with Conservative Fiscal policies and that we should abandon Conservative Social policies. I hear this alot from RINOs and if you still believe that money is all that matters when we elect Government officials, then you should just proudly wear the shoe that fits.

Fifty-two percent (52%) of voters feel that America’s best days are in the past, according to the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. This marks the highest level of voter pessimism in two years and is up 13 points from a year ago when Barack Obama was elected president.

At this point, the only solution that makes any sense is to stop the government dead in its tracks!

Firepilot, I have no clue to what you are referring to that Social Conservatives voted in droves for Carter, a Liberal Democrat. Can you prove this?

Are you that uninformed of history? Geez, 1976 was not that long ago eve. Its amazing how many Social Conservatives think that they and their evangelical social values really are the historical basis of the Republican Party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1976

Look at the Southeast, EVERY Deep South socially conservative state voted to elect Jimmy Carter, and those western “liberals”,I mean small government Republicans voted for the Republican nominee, Gerald Ford. So much for Social Conservatives being the real Republicans. But then Gerald Ford was much more of a traditional small government Republican too.

And as far as your statement on FDR, Jesus how old are you? You do know that this is 2009 right? As far as you being Fiscally Conservative, great! so am I and so are most Social Conservatives. The point is about you taking Liberal Social positions, not your make believe land where you have to chose between Social or Fiscal positions. Most of us are Conservative on all issues not just financial, that makes me Conservative on 100% of the important issues and not 50% like yourself.

SGinNC on November 18, 2009

As Reagan said to Carter “There you go again”. You keep insisting with this strawman argument that I am a “liberal” but you have yet to actually post ANYTHING that I am leftist in regards to. You are probably one of those social conservatives who does not know the difference between Liberal and Libertarian and thinks you can use them interchangably. HINT – You can not.

So, if Social Conservatives were such big proponents of fiscal conservatism like you allege, then why were they such big supporters of the Democrats, like FDR and Carter, and their big government programs? My age is not germaine to ANYTHING in this discussion, and does not divert from the fact that social conservatives have been happy to back Democrats, big government and big government programs, and you still do not realize this.

Just because I may know a bit of political history, does not make me some old person, and even if I was, who cares. If knowing history makes me seem old, then so be it.

But, you are welcome for everyone here to name one leftist position I have, and how I am wrong about the social conservatives having been Democrats for so long. You can even tell me I am wrong about Social Conservatives voting for Jimmy Carter too and other Democrat Presidents too

The big question will be whether those independents will swing to the GOP in 2010 or just stay home. If the GOP stays focused on core principles of limited government and fiscal responsibility, the Republicans have a golden opportunity to restore their standing on those issues and get a second look from independents while keeping their base satisfied.

Exactly.

As mentioned many times over the years, Independents decide the outcome of most national elections. Dems and Repubs nominate and independents elect.

So why are we even bothering with any of this?

firepilot on November 18, 2009 at 4:28 PM

Firepilot, I have no clue to what you are referring to that Social Conservatives voted in droves for Carter, a Liberal Democrat. Can you prove this? And as far as your statement on FDR, Jesus how old are you? You do know that this is 2009 right? As far as you being Fiscally Conservative, great! so am I and so are most Social Conservatives. The point is about you taking Liberal Social positions, not your make believe land where you have to chose between Social or Fiscal positions. Most of us are Conservative on all issues not just financial, that makes me Conservative on 100% of the important issues and not 50% like yourself.

They said that the government cannot COMPEL him to say the pledge. That the government cannot compel you to “say” anything. If that is true my question to my husband was then they also cannot COMPEL you to BUY anything either then can they.

What say you?

The big question will be whether those independents will swing to the GOP in 2010 or just stay home.

We ain’t staying home. It will soon be time to take out the trash.

I don’t believe the “mandate” had anything to do with fleecing American taxpayers. It was more about the love of Styrofoam Greek columns.

Wow that is a nice twist of the facts. I have never seen a Social Conservative that was advocating a large Government, high taxes and a weak defense. Most Social Conservatives are also Fiscal Conservatives.

Then why were social conservatives such enthusiastic supporters of FDRs New Deal? Why were social conservatives such big supporters of the Democratic Party then too for so long up to somewhat recently? Social Conservatives did not leave the Democratic Party over a difference in economics, but because you all thought the Democratic Party did not have the right social positions.

Oh yeah, didn’t you Social Conservatives foist Jimmy Carter on us? So tell us again why we should trust you all to take the helm of the GOP. That was a stellar choice you all made there. Social Conservatives voted for the Democratic Candidate Jimmy Carter over Gerald Ford overwhemingly. So tell me again how I have my facts wrong that you Social Conservatives have been long time supporters of small government policies and economics?

It is the so called Fiscal Conservatives that want us to compromise our Social values that weave from being a “Full” Conservative and hence move into RINO territory. As far as Homosexuality goes, I don’t care what someone does in their bedrooms out of sight, that is between them and God. But it isn’t like that anymore is it? Instead they are teaching our children in public schools that this behavior is acceptable and just. They are parading in our streets and attempting to change our laws and traditions. Just because you are liberal and are happy to see these changes in our society doesn’t mean I have to agree with you or water down my beliefs. I will be fighting for what I believe in, and I am sure you will be doing the same.

Ha, and now I am liberal?????? And you tell others to get their facts straight. I have said I am for small government, strong defense and low taxes. Tell me one “liberal” who supports that?

Is it your assertion that the traditional platform of the GOP is “Liberal”?. Then again you said that that Social Conservatives have been big supporter of small government, when history shows otherwise. History actually shows that Social Conservatives are fine with big government if its the right social values.

Gerald Ford, Jack Kemp, Barry Goldwater could be resurrected and posting on here, and plenty of you would be telling them they are not real Republicans, and that they are actually just liberals because of supporting small government and low taxes

Mounting evidence that independent voters have soured on the Democrats is prompting a debate among party officials about what rhetorical and substantive changes are needed to halt the damage.

Changes? I thought we already had that last year?

Only substantive changes in policy could halt the damage to Democrats. But if they only want to make rhetorical changes, bring it on. We could use some extra seats in Congress.

I don’t see the house flipping for at least two election cycles. I think the Repubs are not smart enough to pull it off. The Repub establishment are gonna run a bunch of RINOs like NY-23, and the independents are going to stay home, until someone gets the message. It sure won’t be Steele at the RNC….

catlady on November 18, 2009 at 2:23 PM

Sad but true. The genius “insiders” at the GOP will see this as an opportunity to remind everyone that they too hate the Tea Partiers and they want to run a Democratic style government that spends a bit less money than Democrats. And then they’ll be humored by the NY Times and the “popular kids”, they’ll go back to enjoying highly profitable cocktail parties with lobbyists and all will be well again in the Beltway. Morons.

MOVE EVEN MORE TO THE LEFT.

That is what the independents want. Trust me. I know what is best for you. Go completely barking marxist.