CBO: Senate ObamaCare bill would reduce deficit by $127 billion over 10 years

posted at 6:20 pm on November 18, 2009 by Allahpundit

Another week, another “scoring” of a bill that (a) looks nothing like what it’ll look like in its final form and (b) almost certainly has been crafted to hide certain key costs (a la “doctor fix” in the House bill) to improve its “score.” Realistically, the only time a CBO score matters is when it’s bad: Were this to come in at over $900 billion or be judged a deficit-buster over the long term, it would be rejected for failing to meet the White House’s baseline demands. But this one just makes the cut, so look for the obligatory back-pat in this weekend’s presidential message about it being a “fine starting point” or an “encouraging beginning” or whatever. Reid managed to come up with a bill that isn’t too expensive … for Barack Obama. Congratulations.

Reid’s proposal would cover an additional 31 million people by 2019, according to a senior Democratic aide, who quoted a preliminary estimate of the legislation by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. That would boost the percentage of non-elderly Americans with medical insurance from 83% to 94% over the next decade, slightly lower than the 96% that the CBO estimated would be covered by the healthcare bill that House Democrats passed last week.

Reid’s legislation – which differs in important other ways from the House bill – would also cost less, committing the federal government to $849 billion in new spending to expand coverage over the next decade, the aide said.

That would be offset by a combination of cuts in federal Medicare spending and a series of new taxes on healthcare industries and on wealthy Americans, including a hike in the payroll taxes that upper-income workers pay for Medicare.

The offsets mean that over the next 10 years, federal deficits would be $127 billion lower than they would without a healthcare bill, the aide said the Congressional Budget Office estimated. Deficits would be reduced by a further $650 billion in the next decade.

$127 billion over 10 years sounds like a lot until you remember that $176 billion was October’s monthly deficit. A decade of projected ReidCare savings was wiped out in less time than it took to start and finish this year’s baseball postseason. And this is all premised, of course, on those projections being accurate. Which, according to no less than the dean of Harvard Medical School, they surely aren’t:

In discussions with dozens of health-care leaders and economists, I find near unanimity of opinion that, whatever its shape, the final legislation that will emerge from Congress will markedly accelerate national health-care spending rather than restrain it. Likewise, nearly all agree that the legislation would do little or nothing to improve quality or change health-care’s dysfunctional delivery system. The system we have now promotes fragmented care and makes it more difficult than it should be to assess outcomes and patient satisfaction. The true costs of health care are disguised, competition based on price and quality are almost impossible, and patients lose their ability to be the ultimate judges of value.

Worse, currently proposed federal legislation would undermine any potential for real innovation in insurance and the provision of care. It would do so by overregulating the health-care system in the service of special interests such as insurance companies, hospitals, professional organizations and pharmaceutical companies, rather than the patients who should be our primary concern.

In effect, while the legislation would enhance access to insurance, the trade-off would be an accelerated crisis of health-care costs and perpetuation of the current dysfunctional system—now with many more participants. This will make an eventual solution even more difficult. Ultimately, our capacity to innovate and develop new therapies would suffer most of all.

One other fact to chew on: The $210 billion in hidden “doctor fix” costs contained in the House bill has no counterpart in the Senate, which killed a “doctor fix” proposal of its own last month. Guess whose side the White House is on.

Blowback

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Any Senator who votes to move the bill is voting for the bill.

The real costs are likely over $3 trillion …

tarpon on November 18, 2009 at 6:22 PM

And if you take out the lying?

Chuck Schick on November 18, 2009 at 6:22 PM

Chump change.

Knucklehead on November 18, 2009 at 6:23 PM

That would be offset by a combination of cuts in federal Medicare spending and a series of new taxes on healthcare industries and on wealthy Americans, including a hike in the payroll taxes that upper-income workers pay for Medicare.

I know. Let’s confiscate all the property of those darn wealthy Americans while we’re at it. That will surely reduce the deficit even more.

Drained Brain on November 18, 2009 at 6:23 PM

Meanwhile, the Democrats will increase the deficit by another trillion or so every year (at least) until they are finally chased from Congress.

Aitch748 on November 18, 2009 at 6:24 PM

This is totally believable.

Howcome on November 18, 2009 at 6:24 PM

If health care is such a high priority why can’t it be effective from day one? What they are doing is worse than nothing.

fourdeucer on November 18, 2009 at 6:24 PM

What an awe-inspiring legislative process we have.

GaltBlvnAtty on November 18, 2009 at 6:25 PM

Yes, it will lower the deficit, by raising TAXES that 127 Billion more than they need to spend… until you take into account that Medicare Fraud will NOT be fixed (as I’m sure this bill says it will), or that the unintendd consequence of this bill will be less people covered by their Jobs…. because there will be less people WITH Jobs…

Except of course, for those Federal Gov jobs, which will expand…

Romeo13 on November 18, 2009 at 6:26 PM

I’m confused… is the healthcare bill our promised unicorn or is the love and respect os fanatic muslims our promised unicorn?

myrenovations on November 18, 2009 at 6:26 PM

Even China is questioning the sanity of this reform.

Enoxo on November 18, 2009 at 6:27 PM

Please remind when was the last time the GOVERNMENT cut back, saved money, etc. Seriously, remind me please.

Oink on November 18, 2009 at 6:27 PM

So mammograms wait until age 50? That means women dying of cancer get to see a lawyer. Women seem to guard their breasts and men like them also. Rationing.

seven on November 18, 2009 at 6:28 PM

And the $650 billion will be delivered by bigfoot to the Gov. by a flying purple pony.

rjoco1 on November 18, 2009 at 6:30 PM

I wonder what the deficits would be lowered by if they just cut funding for Medicare and raised the same taxes…

Skywise on November 18, 2009 at 6:30 PM

As you sort through the lies and deceptions, it is hard
understand the obvious incompetence. The only possible determination that we can make is we have an administration that is incapable of the truth.

volsense on November 18, 2009 at 6:30 PM

Trying to stop these libtards feels like playing whack-a-mole. I really resent having to pay such close attention to their activities.

OhioCoastie on November 18, 2009 at 6:31 PM

talking point joke no one believes except Media outlets who will report this as fact.

rob verdi on November 18, 2009 at 6:31 PM

Has there ever been a triple-dip recession? Or would that be a depression?

Static21 on November 18, 2009 at 6:32 PM

If you need a new car, visit your local GM dealer. Demand the top of the line Cadillac for the price of a Nano. Let me know how that works out for you, ok?

If you don’t see the connection, this theft of health care service by the US Federal Government demands more service for more people while refusing to pay for it. What does ‘cuts in medicare spending’ mean to you?

Skandia Recluse on November 18, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Yeah right. The numbers are wrong, it won;t work, it is all bs.

Terrye on November 18, 2009 at 6:32 PM

How ’bout adding a provision that says:

If future spending/deficits exceed CBO estimates, then the following persons shall lose 100% of any federal pension and retiree health care they had expected (even if they are already collecting it at the time):

Head of CBO
Deputy Head of CBO
Harry Ried
Chairman Baucus
and any Dem who votes for successful final passage of the bill.

jeanneb on November 18, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Garbage in=garbage out.

What is the raw data? How can medical services for an additional umm??? how many in this estimate? will it cover all the supposed 40 mil…or is it 15 mill?..anyway, how can that not only cost the same as not providing medical sevices for 15 -40 mil, but actually make 127 billion dollars over 10 years?
These people are insane. Does anyone actually believe they are doing this because they just care sooooo much about you?

Itchee Dryback on November 18, 2009 at 6:33 PM

Even China is questioning the sanity of this reform.

Enoxo on November 18, 2009 at 6:27 PM

That’s not the only sanity they are questioning.

ICBM on November 18, 2009 at 6:33 PM

Someday they will show us Harry’s broom closet they wrote the bill in. And who thinks there is one thing here that actually improves healthcare for anyone?

tarpon on November 18, 2009 at 6:33 PM

So mammograms wait until age 50? That means women dying of cancer get to see a lawyer. Women seem to guard their breasts and men like them also. Rationing.

seven on November 18, 2009

Instead of the Chinese “one child policy,” Obamacare offers Americans “the one breast policy.”

J.J. Sefton on November 18, 2009 at 6:33 PM

Has there ever been a triple-dip recession? Or would that be a depression?

Static21 on November 18, 2009 at 6:32 PM

No, a double-dip recession would be a depression. A triple-dip recession is a great depression.

Enoxo on November 18, 2009 at 6:36 PM

Just so you all know. My Senator, Ben Nelson of NE will be voting in favor of cloture. He is a gutless wonder. Bank on it.

PappaMac on November 18, 2009 at 6:37 PM

They must intend to put a lot of seniors out on those melting Greenland ice floes.

Mr. Joe on November 18, 2009 at 6:37 PM

My projections say that anything Obama does will have an infinite deficit reduction capability over exactly NULL time. That’s right, he’s so awesome he breaks the laws of space & time. Suck it, cons.

fronclynne on November 18, 2009 at 6:38 PM

I’m assuming,even though I haven’t read the bill yet—that part of the saving are due to medicare cuts. How aboutthey draft language cutting medicare costs NOW and have it as part of the bill. In that way, when it passes, the cuts also pass.

I have a feeling that after they pass this mess, they’ll forget about the cuts.

dirtseller on November 18, 2009 at 6:38 PM

oh no it won’t.

John the Libertarian on November 18, 2009 at 6:38 PM

Sorry I am not to smart in economics…remind me again if we are 12 trillion dollars in debt, who pays off that debt? Where does the government get the money?
Simply asked…if the government is 12 trillion dollars in debt, where and whom do they get the money to pay off that debt.

right2bright on November 18, 2009 at 6:38 PM

I know this is off topic, but its so outrageous and pathetic, this is the lead at the times:

Lisa Kline, the New York stylist who bought Sarah Palin and her family their notorious $150,000 wardrobes, goes public with details of the spending.

rob verdi on November 18, 2009 at 6:39 PM

No, a double-dip recession would be a depression. A triple-dip recession is a great depression.

Enoxo on November 18, 2009 at 6:36 PM

Before we get into jabbering about a double-dip, we need to be fairly sure we’ve hit the bottom of the first dip. (hint: we haven’t)

fronclynne on November 18, 2009 at 6:39 PM

fox news alert right now

cmsinaz on November 18, 2009 at 6:39 PM

They seem to be getting better and better at gaming the CBO.

d1carter on November 18, 2009 at 6:39 PM

Enoxo on November 18, 2009 at 6:36 PM

Was tongue-in-cheek, but definitely where we are heading-will get worse before it gets better-oy..

Static21 on November 18, 2009 at 6:40 PM

Dingy Harry is rambling at a press conference.

Enoxo on November 18, 2009 at 6:41 PM

reid: ‘we are not only going to protect medicare, we are going to make it stronger’

cmsinaz on November 18, 2009 at 6:42 PM

Show us the funding stream Reid and precisely how you decreased the deficit. This is just more deceit from a government that is totally untrustworthy. The leftists in congress have completely lost their minds.

rplat on November 18, 2009 at 6:42 PM

Well, I had to turn the TV off, to shut Reid up.

Fox sucked tonight. It was all Obama and Reid.

Terrye on November 18, 2009 at 6:42 PM

$127 billion over 10 years

Great, in about 640 years we will have paid off the national debt, assuming no interest and no increase in the debt…

The year 2650 is going to be a great year of celebration for the U.S.

right2bright on November 18, 2009 at 6:43 PM

Oh Lordy, Reid is referring to “my friend” again. Wonder if this guy is an imaginary friend like the last “my friend”?

This is truly terrifying to see these people lying their pants off! How in the would can this not contribute to the deficit? How?

freeus on November 18, 2009 at 6:44 PM

Dingy Harry: “This bill is for people like my friend, Jeff Hill from Searchlight Nevada, 23 years old, he goes off his parents’ health insurance policy. Within six weeks, he gets diagnosed with… ” Fox cut him off.

My question… WTF is a 23-year-old whining about health insurance and not working?

Enoxo on November 18, 2009 at 6:44 PM

Reduce the deficit?

$127 billion is peanuts compared to the many many trillion we are on the hook for thanks to the Dems.

Visions of Weimar are becoming more and more real of late.

coldwarrior on November 18, 2009 at 6:44 PM

Another way to look at it, averaging 8 years per president, 80 presidents from now we will be debt free, if they don’t add anymore debt and no interest.

right2bright on November 18, 2009 at 6:45 PM

Keep in mind that the CBO scores what Harry tells them to score.

By controlling what goes in (not actual legislation) he controls what comes out.

Joe Caps on November 18, 2009 at 6:46 PM

Any Senator who votes to move the bill is voting for the bill.

tarpon on November 18, 2009 at 6:22 PM

HotAir readers and posters, e-mail, write or call your Senators to Kill This Bill!!

yoda on November 18, 2009 at 6:48 PM

Keep in mind that the CBO scores what Harry tells them to score.

By controlling what goes in (not actual legislation) he controls what comes out.

Joe Caps on November 18, 2009 at 6:46 PM

Exactly. There is, to this day, no bill from the Senate. It’s all concepts and ideas.

Enoxo on November 18, 2009 at 6:48 PM

Thank God, that is over. Back to real people.

Terrye on November 18, 2009 at 6:48 PM

How many people have to die early to achieve this?

OldEnglish on November 18, 2009 at 6:48 PM

That picture is a classic.

Good people of Nevada, please send the reaper home.

Schadenfreude on November 18, 2009 at 6:54 PM

They said federal income tax would never exceed %1. They said medicare would only cost 12 billion by 1990. They said SS “tax” would never exceed %3 with a max of $3000 a year. I don’t have any faith in their promises.

DFCtomm on November 18, 2009 at 6:56 PM

We’re screwed. Something is going to pass and whatever that something is, only means one thing We’re screwed there will be no going back and undoing this.
This has been a depressing month of bad news.

Brat4life on November 18, 2009 at 6:56 PM

And if you take out the lying?

Chuck Schick on November 18, 2009 at 6:22 PM

If you take out the lying? There’d be no bill, silly.

misterpeasea on November 18, 2009 at 6:58 PM

So mammograms wait until age 50? That means women dying of cancer get to see a lawyer. Women seem to guard their breasts and men like them also. Rationing.

seven on November 18, 2009 at 6:28 PM

Ah, but you miss the GENIUS of this bill…

Its in the bill that you CAN’T sue the Board that decides who covers what… or the Insurance company for following that unelected boards rules.

Sooo… Who wins? Trial Lawyers (who can still sue Doctors), Health insurance Companies…

who looses? Doctors… Life Insurance Companies… and of course… the people who die.

Romeo13 on November 18, 2009 at 6:58 PM

Why did it take so long for Obama to buy off this group?

Cybergeezer on November 18, 2009 at 6:58 PM

ANOTHER UNCONSTITUTIONAL BILL.

nelsonknows on November 18, 2009 at 6:59 PM

Allah you missed the most important part!!

the subsidies and consumer protections DO NOT BEGIN UNTIL 2013!!!!! But the fines penalties and taxes begin NOW

ginaswo on November 18, 2009 at 7:01 PM

2010

WE ARE TAKING NAMES… PAYBACK !

stenwin77 on November 18, 2009 at 7:06 PM

Oh no! This means Kay Hagan (D-NC) will vote for it! She said she’d vote NO if it didn’t reduce the debt! She promised!

/

SouthernGent on November 18, 2009 at 7:09 PM

Solution to health care problem.
Have everyone that is sick, line up, and let barry touch them and heal them.

while he is at it, have him turn water into wine and we’ll party.

BruceB on November 18, 2009 at 7:09 PM

Apparently the bill must have a provision for free crack because that is what it is going to take, on an hourly basis, to believe that anything in DC will actually cost less overtime. Especially something that provides free health care to the supposed 46 million that can’t or won’t have it.

patrick neid on November 18, 2009 at 7:12 PM

Allah you missed the most important part!!

the subsidies and consumer protections DO NOT BEGIN UNTIL 2013!!!!! But the fines penalties and taxes begin NOW

ginaswo on November 18, 2009 at 7:01 PM

The budget gimmickry, fine print and caveats may give the mirage of affordability on this bill on this day– if we overlook the government’s propensity to underestimate cost by a factor of at least 10.

Wonder how it looks beyond year 10, even with their best-case scenarios.

obladioblada on November 18, 2009 at 7:15 PM

Cloward-Piven is alive and well, CBO fairy-tales notwithstanding.

hillbillyjim on November 18, 2009 at 7:16 PM

Just so you all know. My Senator, Ben Nelson of NE will be voting in favor of cloture. He is a gutless wonder. Bank on it.

PappaMac on November 18, 2009 at 6:37 PM

We share him. And, you are correct.

a capella on November 18, 2009 at 7:28 PM

Kill the Bill!

Christian Conservative on November 18, 2009 at 7:30 PM

Reid still thinks that people believe things he says. Has he got pebbles in his head? I also find it hilarious that Obama can sit in an interview and talk about how we have to reduce the deficit after he spent wasted almost a trillion bucks.

scalleywag on November 18, 2009 at 7:34 PM

Kill the Bill!

Christian Conservative on November 18, 2009 at 7:30 PM

Amen!

I agree with Ramesh Ponnuru on this one:

Past the Bitter End [Ramesh Ponnuru]
Conservatives and Republicans should commit themselves not only to defeating Democratic health-care legislation, but to repealing it if it is enacted…

obladioblada on November 18, 2009 at 7:35 PM

Hey Harry and CBO,
In the words of Sarah Palin: Bull Crap!

Christian Conservative on November 18, 2009 at 7:37 PM

Liar, Liar, pants on fire

hawkman on November 18, 2009 at 7:38 PM

Even China is questioning the sanity of this reform.

Enoxo on November 18, 2009 at 6:27 PM

Yet another historic first for The One:

Chinese Communists caution US president on spending too much on social reforms.

Hell hath frozen.

BobMbx on November 18, 2009 at 7:44 PM

Senator Reid said that the Senate Bill will shore up Medicare and reduce the deficit. I believe every word that he said tonite. Now, if you will excuse me, someone is knocking at my door. I’m expecting the Easter Bunny.

BigAlSouth on November 18, 2009 at 7:45 PM

What happened to “IT’S A TROJAN HORSE TO STEAL OUR LIBERTY” angle?

Clearly it’s designed to eliminate private insurance,

REGARDLESS OF THE “COST” SHELLGAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

marklmail on November 18, 2009 at 7:47 PM

Reid also said he believes in the Easter Bunnie and the tooth fairy.

thmcbb on November 18, 2009 at 8:13 PM

Honestly the Congress has figured out the system the CBO uses and tailors the bill to it.

It is more fakery.

And anyone who falls for it deserves to be first in line to the death panel.

petunia on November 18, 2009 at 8:27 PM

According to AOSHQ, the bill is over 2000 pages long. And the senators have 72 hours (assuming they don’t sleep) to read it.

But supposedly Coburn will refuse unanimous consent to waive reading of the bill and insist on it being read.

Wethal on November 18, 2009 at 8:28 PM

We share him. And, you are correct.

a capella on November 18, 2009 at 7:28 PM

Now imagine he was your only choice for President! That’s what the Republican Party did to me last year! McCain’s stand on everything was totally backward… except the war…. and then I’m supposed to be happy he’s the nominee? That is just asking too much!

petunia on November 18, 2009 at 8:31 PM

One thing which really gets me is this part of the article:

who quoted a preliminary estimate of the legislation by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office

This is the same thing that happened with the last “scoring” of the non-existent Senate bill, if I am remembering correctly. The preliminary score was positive, but the ACTUAL score at the end, once it was all fully analyzed, was NOT. You can’t go by an initial prelim estimate on something like this. You need to wait until the full-blown results of the whole bill have a chance to be analyzed before passing judgment.

Highlar on November 18, 2009 at 8:56 PM

I couldn’t care less whether this POS cash flows or not! Its very existence is an atrocity. When exactly did America become the kind of country where this conversation could even be taking place?
Look folks, you can either be free or you can be taken care of – you can be a citizen or a ward – you can’t be both!
Arguing about the costs and revenues of this monstrosity is like debating the finances of Buchenwald while you’re riding the train taking you there. The fact that it’s financially doable or not doesn’t make it any less of a death camp.

Lew on November 18, 2009 at 10:15 PM

Allah you missed the most important part!!

the subsidies and consumer protections DO NOT BEGIN UNTIL 2013!!!!! But the fines penalties and taxes begin NOW

ginaswo on November 18, 2009 at 7:01 PM

This was mentioned on Greta’s show on Fox tonight. The taxes apply over 10 years, the benefits over 7 years. $849 billion over 7 years is equivalent to $1.21 Trillion over 10 years, not counting the “doctor fix” of $200 Billion plus. Reality: this costs $1.41 Trillion plus, and $400 Billion in Medicare cuts to Seniors.

Nobody other than Fox will tell you this. This bill is crazy like a Fox.

Steve Z on November 18, 2009 at 11:55 PM

http://www.veteranoutrage.com

BULLSHIT..

What POT is all of congress smoking!!!
We the people said NO
We the people are in charge not you disgusting democrats
We the people are NOT going to obey..
Screw you
Screw your numbers
Screw your bullshit
Screw your new laws..

No more..
we are done..

veteranoutrage on November 19, 2009 at 2:31 AM

The conventional wisdom has been that if ObamaCare gets put off until next year, it is effectively dead. Too much time for too many details to be exposed and too many financial calculations to be checked. Just like HillaryCare before it, it is the sort of bill which must be rammed through on a fast track before the public sees too many details.
`
Personally, I see this bill as Harry Reid falling on his sword for Obama. Reid is up for reelection and has poll numbers not much better than Tom Thumb Daschle a year before he went down. This bill is the key test of Reid’s career and power as Majority Leader, but he is damaged at home no matter how it comes out in DC.
`
If it fails to pass, he can’t get it done. His argument for reelection based on his superior influence in DC only calls attention to his failures. But if it does pass, by election time the details will have been revealed, and he will have to defend every egregious assault on our freedom and health care system.
`
Obama told Reid to pick up his cross and follow, and Reid chose the false Messiah. It would be a tragic and touching tale if Reid were even a mediocre Senator, but he is a little man who began as a political bag man for the Vegas mob and unions (as if they were different), elevated by his peers only because none feared he would ever eclipse them in glory (none realizing what tiny and insignificant creatures they themselves are), who never “grew in office” into anything measurable.

Adjoran on November 19, 2009 at 4:01 AM

Fuzzy math.

TrickyDick on November 19, 2009 at 8:22 AM

And basketballs have feathers, idiot!

kens on November 19, 2009 at 8:56 AM

Am I to understand that Reid’s Big Medical System bill was released late last night, clocks in at 2074 pages, and the “world’s greatest deliberative body” will vote on it Friday — as in tomorrow? That’s two days to read the bill.

This is legislative malpractice.

I have frickin’ HAD IT with those tyrannical clowns.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

And suffer we have…

Rae on November 19, 2009 at 9:54 AM

Democrats would reduce deficit by $127 billion over 10 years, given that their lies were true–CBO

maverick muse on November 19, 2009 at 11:49 AM

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