Pollster: I’d like to ask you a few questions for our poll.
Victim: Okay.
Pollster: Let’s start with, are you a Democrat or a Republican?
Victim: Republican.
Pollster: (click)
Victim: Hello? Hello?

You see, orange, here’s the thing. Lefties simply consider the views they hold to be “middle of the road”, and then radiate the spectrum from there. It’s delusional.

ddrintn on November 17, 2009 at 5:51 PM

As I said before, it is indeed delusional. Have a good night.

orange on November 17, 2009 at 7:36 PM

You’re the one that threw the label “far right” around, and couldn’t back it up. Good night.

You throw around the term “far right” without acknowledging the existence of the “far left”?

ddrintn on November 17, 2009 at 7:24 PM

Okay, you’re completely off the mark here. If you can’t answer any of my question or even remember the answers I gave earlier, I’m not interested in discussing this with you further.

As a reminder:

Fortunately, I have no problem recognizing that someone like Dennis Kucinich is far-left.

orange on November 17, 2009 at 6:01 PM

And another reminder, if you choose to look yourself in the mirror:

You see, orange, here’s the thing. Lefties simply consider the views they hold to be “middle of the road”, and then radiate the spectrum from there. It’s delusional.

ddrintn on November 17, 2009 at 5:51 PM

As I said before, it is indeed delusional. Have a good night.

Ah, this is where we’re miscommunicating. I’m not sure how you got that impression, but I never intended to label anyone sinisterly. Frankly, I thought it was uncontroversial that the tea partiers are to the right of the Republican party, thus to the right of the nation as a whole. Since you can’t list anyone to their right, this seems pretty likely to be true. Feel free to actually refute this rather than going around in circles asking me about Obama and Palin.

orange on November 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM

It would be easier to isolate the views of individuals rather than try to overgeneralize based on a group. The basic ideas that animate the tea partiers is that government is getting too big and taxes are too high. If those are “far right” positions, then you’d have to say we’re a “far right” country. Ergo, you’re on the fringe, dude.

If there is nobody to their right, then by definition, they are the far right. I don’t see why this is a source of conflict.

orange on November 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM

Pat Buchanan alone explodes your analysis.

The gist of your post is that “far right” is just a sinister label to use against someone to the right of you, that you can’t stand. If you can’t identify a “far right” political position, what use is the label anyway?

Ah, this is where we’re miscommunicating. I’m not sure how you got that impression, but I never intended to label anyone sinisterly. Frankly, I thought it was uncontroversial that the tea partiers are to the right of the Republican party, thus to the right of the nation as a whole. Since you can’t list anyone to their right, this seems pretty likely to be true. Feel free to actually refute this rather than going around in circles asking me about Obama and Palin.

More to the point, how are the tea partiers and Sarah Palin out of the mainstream politically? On what specific issues are they so on the fringe as far as national polling data are concerned?

ddrintn on November 17, 2009 at 7:08 PM

If there is nobody to their right, then by definition, they are the far right. I don’t see why this is a source of conflict.

And then tell me with a straight face that Obama is “mainstream”.

ddrintn on November 17, 2009 at 7:19 PM

You’re getting off the rails here. The point is that the tea partiers are far-right. Why are you getting into Obama?

orange on November 17, 2009 at 7:22 PM

You throw around the term “far right” without acknowledging the existence of the “far left”? Aren’t you “far left” in relation to where the country as a whole is ideologically?

I already named one. Conyers is another. Off the top of my head, there’s Schakowsky, Bernie Sanders, I imagine Howard Dean. Anybody who supports single-payer is to Obama’s left, and there are many in the House who do.

Now, do you care to do the same? I’ve asked enough times: who is to the right of the tea partiers?

orange on November 17, 2009 at 7:18 PM

Seems to me that Obama would be right at home with the above-named crew. Obama supports single-payer. He’s said so himself — I’ve heard it. Try again.

And then tell me with a straight face that Obama is “mainstream”.

ddrintn on November 17, 2009 at 7:19 PM

You’re getting off the rails here. The point is that the tea partiers are far-right. Why are you getting into Obama?

Aren’t most of these pretty standard lefty positions?

ddrintn on November 17, 2009 at 7:12 PM

I suppose so. And yet with a few exceptions, Obama, Pelosi and Reid generally don’t support those positions. Pretty weird for far-leftists, huh?

If you’d like to prove that they are mainstream (using specific issues and polling data), please do.

orange on November 17, 2009 at 7:14 PM

For starters, you could look into national polls on issues such as the size of government, taxation, abortion, national security, immigration and others. And then tell me with a straight face that Obama is “mainstream”.

I ask you, how many politicians can you name to Obama’s left?

ddrintn on November 17, 2009 at 7:08 PM

I already named one. Conyers is another. Off the top of my head, there’s Schakowsky, Bernie Sanders, I imagine Howard Dean. Anybody who supports single-payer is to Obama’s left, and there are many in the House who do.

Now, do you care to do the same? I’ve asked enough times: who is to the right of the tea partiers?

I don’t have polling data on the tea partiers’ beliefs. Can you point me in the right direction? If you’d like to prove that they are mainstream (using specific issues and polling data), please do.

orange on November 17, 2009 at 7:14 PM

I thought you might have known already, since you labeled them “far right”.

Q.E.D.

You say the tea partiers are “far right”. Give me some examples showing their politics to be out of the mainstream, using specific issues and polling data.

ddrintn on November 17, 2009 at 6:58 PM

I don’t have polling data on the tea partiers’ beliefs. Can you point me in the right direction? If you’d like to prove that they are mainstream (using specific issues and polling data), please do.

Given that Kucinich clearly has views to the left of those three, you are clearly mistaken here. I mean, when have those three advocated the following positions from Kucinich’s presidential platform?

* Creating a single-payer not-for-profit system of universal health care that provides full coverage for all Americans by passage of the United States National Health Care Act.
* The immediate, phased withdrawal of all U.S. forces from Iraq; replacing them with an international security force.
* Guaranteed quality education for all; including free pre-kindergarten and college for all who want it.
* Immediate withdrawal from the World Trade Organization (WTO) and North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).
* Immediate repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act.
* Abolishing the death penalty.
* Ban offshore drilling.
* Creating a cabinet-level “Department of Peace”
* Ending the War on Drugs.
* Legalizing same-sex marriage.
* Legalizing medicinal marijuana and decriminalizing non-medical possession.

Aren’t most of these pretty standard lefty positions?

Well, how many people would claim to be to the right of Palin compared to how many would say that she is to the right of them? I suspect the latter number is far greater. I can name quite a lot of prominent political figures that surely are to her left – Obama, Pelosi and Reid among them. I ask yet again: how many can you name that are to her right?

If you and I can name dozens upon dozens that are to her left and we can’t name any that are to her right, doesn’t that give a good indication that she is to the far-right? If not that, what would let us know that she is far-right? What metric can we use?

orange on November 17, 2009 at 7:04 PM

I ask you, how many politicians can you name to Obama’s left?

The gist of your post is that “far right” is just a sinister label to use against someone to the right of you, that you can’t stand. If you can’t identify a “far right” political position, what use is the label anyway?

More to the point, how are the tea partiers and Sarah Palin out of the mainstream politically? On what specific issues are they so on the fringe as far as national polling data are concerned?

As is Obama, then. And Pelosi and Reid.

Given that Kucinich clearly has views to the left of those three, you are clearly mistaken here. I mean, when have those three advocated the following positions from Kucinich’s presidential platform?

* Creating a single-payer not-for-profit system of universal health care that provides full coverage for all Americans by passage of the United States National Health Care Act.
* The immediate, phased withdrawal of all U.S. forces from Iraq; replacing them with an international security force.
* Guaranteed quality education for all; including free pre-kindergarten and college for all who want it.
* Immediate withdrawal from the World Trade Organization (WTO) and North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).
* Immediate repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act.
* Abolishing the death penalty.
* Ban offshore drilling.
* Creating a cabinet-level “Department of Peace”
* Ending the War on Drugs.
* Legalizing same-sex marriage.
* Legalizing medicinal marijuana and decriminalizing non-medical possession.

Maybe there are a few exceptions, but I don’t believe Obama, Pelosi or Reid has advocated most of those things. If any of those three have advocated for all or most of those things, then I’ll concede that you are correct about that person.

For now, it seems that you are falling prey to the delusion that you are accusing “lefties” of.

I’m not making any claim.

I got that implication, but fair enough: if you believe that Sarah Palin is extreme right, then so be it.

I’m asking you what policy positions she holds that marks her as “far right”, and how that “far right” designation could apply to the country as a whole.

ddrintn on November 17, 2009 at 6:48 PM

Well, how many people would claim to be to the right of Palin compared to how many would say that she is to the right of them? I suspect the latter number is far greater. I can name quite a lot of prominent political figures that surely are to her left – Obama, Pelosi and Reid among them. I ask yet again: how many can you name that are to her right?

If you and I can name dozens upon dozens that are to her left and we can’t name any that are to her right, doesn’t that give a good indication that she is to the far-right? If not that, what would let us know that she is far-right? What metric can we use?

But you seem to deny the existence of the far-right. You sound like you’re doing the exact thing you’re accusing “lefties” of doing.

orange on November 17, 2009 at 6:01 PM

You say the tea partiers are “far right”. Give me some examples showing their politics to be out of the mainstream, using specific issues and polling data.

I agree that to hold that view would be delusional. Fortunately, I have no problem recognizing that someone like Dennis Kucinich is far-left.

orange on November 17, 2009 at 6:01 PM

As is Obama, then. And Pelosi and Reid.

I’m not particularly interested in making this discussion about Sarah Palin. However, if (as you claim) she is not a member of the far-right, then it should be easy for you to list a number of prominent political figures who are to the right of her.

orange on November 17, 2009 at 6:04 PM

I’m not making any claim. I’m asking you what policy positions she holds that marks her as “far right”, and how that “far right” designation could apply to the country as a whole.