Comedy gold: David Frum and John Ziegler argue over Palin’s influence
posted at 9:02 pm on November 17, 2009 by Allahpundit
It’s not comedy all the way through, but things turn festive around the 13-minute mark when Ziegler yells at Frum about the party needing to punish the “traitors” in its midst and embrace the “warriors.” Give credit to Ingraham for a brilliant bit of scheduling here: These two really are the most vocal spokesmen for their respective Palin factions, pro and con, on the right. It’s a treat to have them together this week of all weeks, and an interesting contrast in styles. Frum is trying to box while Ziegler is throwing roundhouses. Well worth your time, even if Frum does miss an opportunity to challenge Ziegler’s “warrior” ethos by noting how well Bob McDonnell did in Virginia playing it low key.
Lest you doubt Ziegler’s basic point about unfair treatment, please note that even “serious” newspapers are now running reviews of her book written by people who admit that they haven’t read it. I’ll leave you to Doctor Zero for your exit question.
Blowback
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Palin’s influence is the greatest influence of any politician I’ve ever seen in my lifetime.
Proud Rino on November 17, 2009 at 9:05 PM
OT Hannity and FNC has a graphic saying ‘Palin goes ROUGE’.
sheesh
thomasaur on November 17, 2009 at 9:05 PM
WTF? On Fox / Hannity, just seen on the ticker: “PALIN GOES ROUGE“. Rouge?
Roo-zh?
RD on November 17, 2009 at 9:06 PM
Frum is an ass, and Ziegler is a fruit cake.
Enoxo on November 17, 2009 at 9:06 PM
yay, two people that bore me to death. :/
clement on November 17, 2009 at 9:06 PM
If you take the best characteristics of Frum and the best of Zeigler you get Ace, I think.
Spirit of 1776 on November 17, 2009 at 9:07 PM
Now the ticker says “Rogue”, which is presumably correct.
Is it possible I completely read it wrong the 1st time? (I sure hope so!) Or did they just fix the ticker? Will check the tape at 12:06 am on the re-broadcast, though this may not be conclusive.
RD on November 17, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Most inarticulate debaters. Both of them.
antisocial on November 17, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Frum is dishonest from the start here, unfortunately. He should remember his Hugh interview.
Spirit of 1776 on November 17, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Death Panels.
Your dig at Ziegler’s still funny, though.
BadgerHawk on November 17, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Okay, you saw the same thing. Son of a b-tch.
RD on November 17, 2009 at 9:10 PM
Battle of Egoes
blatantblue on November 17, 2009 at 9:10 PM
Egos*
blatantblue on November 17, 2009 at 9:10 PM
Mark Kirk should be Frum’s dream candidate, and he’s looking for support from Palin. That ought to tell him something, don’t you think?
stldave on November 17, 2009 at 9:12 PM
The book was delivered about a half hour ago…I read the first few pages before dinner, so can I review it now?
Bob's Kid on November 17, 2009 at 9:12 PM
LOL, another faux pas, or should I say Faux(news) pas. I didn’t see it, but am curious how long it will play through.
disillusioned on November 17, 2009 at 9:12 PM
OT: Great series on the history channel…WWII in HD
d1carter on November 17, 2009 at 9:12 PM
I’d be finding out which liberal associate producer was responsible and they would be working the mail room and coffee machine.
thomasaur on November 17, 2009 at 9:12 PM
eggoes.
homesickamerican on November 17, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Correction: It was not the ticker, it was a static overlay graphic w/text on it. And my clock is fast :) – anyhow I’ll be checking the re-b’cast from the top of the hour just to be safe.
RD on November 17, 2009 at 9:13 PM
I get Ziegler’s outrage, here.
My major concern with relationship with the right is the pundits. They assist in character assassination. I hate that, it’s immoral in my mind. She must be defended. I don’t think she is necessarily the best candidate.
Rush said what John said, that the personal stuff is like 10-15 pages. Rush said it was heavy policy. I think Frum is out of touch.
Spirit of 1776 on November 17, 2009 at 9:14 PM
You could have Kanye Wested that , now you fail.
the_nile on November 17, 2009 at 9:14 PM
I forgot to add. Frum is an idiot. Make that IDIOT.
antisocial on November 17, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Read the book, Frum!
SouthernGent on November 17, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Ziegler and Frum yelling about Palin is my idea of a death panel, in the sense that it would make me want to kill myself if I listened to it.
Proud Rino on November 17, 2009 at 9:16 PM
Frum is lying about the death panels bit too. What a freaking loser. Hugh must pull his hair out when he hears Frum calling other people liars.
Spirit of 1776 on November 17, 2009 at 9:16 PM
I tried to buy the book tonight but the Borders I went to closed at 7. Can I review the book now?
marmaran on November 17, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Ziegler knows how to party
I’ll give him that
blatantblue on November 17, 2009 at 9:18 PM
OT II: You’re absolutely correct. Tonight is Part III of five parts. And History Channel is replaying each night’s episodes and the preceding episodes the following day.
The footage is excellent.
BuckeyeSam on November 17, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Well. He is a retard.
lorien1973 on November 17, 2009 at 9:19 PM
David Frum~obama anal poisoning survivor.
HornetSting on November 17, 2009 at 9:20 PM
A lot of the warning types like Frum are simply going to be ignored pretty soon.
Out in the real world, she is the only reason the GOP isn’t still having to deal with articles about how the party has completely died.
AnninCA on November 17, 2009 at 9:20 PM
I wouldn’t mind seeing Palin in rouge
blatantblue on November 17, 2009 at 9:21 PM
should have been have not has.
sheesh
thomasaur on November 17, 2009 at 9:22 PM
I’m 32, so I can’t say really the “influence” the Gipper had, but, perhaps, with the short-lived influence of one H. Ross Perot notwithstanding, there is no question that Sarah’s influence is the greatest I’ve seen as well.
Oh, and Frum is a completely useless jackass.
Russ
russcote on November 17, 2009 at 9:22 PM
This is great entertainment.
cubachi on November 17, 2009 at 9:23 PM
Frum vs Ziegler
The difference is that Ziegler is a self-employed conservative.
Frum on the other hand, is a leftist media whore, masquerading as a conservative.
Its an easy pick!
“Let’s Roll”
On Watch on November 17, 2009 at 9:24 PM
HAHAHA, Ziegler’s too Palin-happy even for me, and I adore her. Frum’s just a buttmunch, so I hope that he and Ziegler enjoy their celebrity deathmatch. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I anxiously await my copy of the book – Amazon says it shipped this morning. Looking forward to a peek inside Sarah’s head.
Animator Girl on November 17, 2009 at 9:25 PM
“Palin is God”
“Palin is awful”
Is that how it goes
blatantblue on November 17, 2009 at 9:25 PM
+100 Great footage!
d1carter on November 17, 2009 at 9:26 PM
Yeah, well my wife and daughter will be seeing her tomorrow at a book signing so there.
fourdeucer on November 17, 2009 at 9:26 PM
I was making a joke, Russ. Ziegler made a comment about how Palin’s book was the best book he’d ever read by a politician – which is probably true, opinions are subjective, but it’s just kind of a ridiculous statement to make without the benefit of the perspective of, say, a couple of days to think it over.
Most significant influence on contemporary American politics? Ugh, you don’t want to know my answer to that – it’s too depressing to even write.
Proud Rino on November 17, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Reviewing a book not read being a letter of resignation?:
No more so than reviewing a movie that you haven’t fully seen or reviewing a restaurant you’ve never eaten at.
But then again, I’m no journalist.
kurtzz3 on November 17, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Ziegler needs to take a deep breath or two. All that yelling can’t be good for his health.
Trent1289 on November 17, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Ziggy and Frumpy are more alike than they realize. Both believe they are important, which few if any sentient creatures can see any reason for.
And both are trying to prop themselves up by using Sarah Palin….
MrScribbler on November 17, 2009 at 9:27 PM
even if Frum does miss an opportunity to challenge Ziegler’s “warrior” ethos by noting how well Bob McDonnell did in Virginia playing it low key.
the Dragon on November 17, 2009 at 9:28 PM
“I’ve abandoned free market principles to save the free market system.” –George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 16, 2008
disillusioned on November 17, 2009 at 9:29 PM
When the WaPo has Wonkette doing book reviews, that’s pretty much the end of their credibility.
JammieWearingFool on November 17, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Dangit! I watched that trailer for “community” thinking the clip was afterward.
bitsy on November 17, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Yikes, missed the sarc tag PR, my bad.
I’m probably not going to read the book; I don’t think I have to. But depending on how one defines “influence”, I think Sarah is in the conversation, at least insofar as my lifetime is concerned. To the extent I can’t speak from experience as to Reagan’s influence, the two I’d have to say are in the conversation with her are Perot and, well, Obama.
And yes, I would like to know your answer to that.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Russ
russcote on November 17, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Bret Beher(sp) over at FNC apologized last night for putting up the wrong book cover. Good example of the fact checking that goes on with anything to do with Palin. I agree with the comment about Ziegler and Frum where John is a whack job and David is a cowardly lion. Booorrring!
inspectorudy on November 17, 2009 at 9:32 PM
It’s terrible, I know, but if I didn’t read it all, neither can Sarah Palin claim to have completely written it.
What? Wait….wait..no. I seriously need a drink after reading this sentence.
So, madam, just because you are an unprofessional twat, does that mean Palin is too?
It is YOU, and women like YOU that disgrace us!
Answering to Dr. Zero, yes. Yes, they should be fired!
How much lower can one go!? If she’s such a stupid, sad, pathetic, little woman, why this?
I’m not a big fan and she’s done and said things that I’m don’t agree with at all, but that is normal in a democratic, free society. However, this overwhelming and constant derangement is unbearable.
I though this would calm after the election, but no.
And this ancient, tribal behavior of women hating other women is seriously “passé”. Do you think that by “purging” conservative women of your elites you will be better served? Men will treat you better?
It was your little liberal behavior that kept women in the kitchen. You, with your purges of all of those who tried to escape the gripping circle of slavery and with your generational: mother knows best.
Such a pity, reviewing a book you haven’t read. Advancing the feminist cause for this? Degrading women who don’t view the world like you do, keeping quiet about women abuse on Islam, closing your eyes to the ever growing sexualization of young females but oh, aren’t abortions really nice?
F*ck you and your ilk, I hope your daughter can free themselves from tyrants like you.
lostineurope on November 17, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Women are for making babies
and that is all
/the matrix
blatantblue on November 17, 2009 at 9:36 PM
Ugh – honestly, it’s Oprah. I think, anyway. Not in the sense of policy, obviously, but in how politics today have become less about policy and more about feelings. The last two elections have all been about where everyone came from and how hardscrabble their upbringings were – people don’t criticize Palin for policy as much as they criticize her for her clothes.
People don’t want serious debate, they want insipid personal stories about people’s dedication to their families and how they struggled with ______ before they became successful.
Proud Rino on November 17, 2009 at 9:37 PM
And from the recent HotAir post, we learn that a bunch of leftie pundits are about to release a book called “Going Rouge” (roo-zh) that has a similar cover, the same typeface, everything. This little SNAFU with the graphic was a good shout-out for that little pet project.
Yah, but I’m going with, it’s somebody else’s “fault”.
Sounds like the next tea party chant for late 2009: Read. The. Book!!!
LOL, Spirit of ’76!
RD on November 17, 2009 at 9:37 PM
I just heard on C4P an audio clip from Sarah’s Dad about Lyda Green, Sarah’s nemesis in AK.
He said she was ‘flappin her gums again’. Hilarious.
Sapwolf on November 17, 2009 at 9:37 PM
You’re a crazy person.
Proud Rino on November 17, 2009 at 9:37 PM
I listened. I didn’t really know about this Frum guy. I had hear Ziegler.
Frum’s discussion of the future of the GOP makes no sense to me at all. I couldn’t believe he was suggesting that the Obama administration would have discussed HCR were it not for the teaparties and Palin.
Glad Laura laughed at him over that nonsense. What discussion? Hey, we’ll give you no coverage for abortion? Heck, they got that from the Dem pro-life.
Anyway, Ziegler needs to calm down. Frum needs to switch parties.
AnninCA on November 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM
Pot, meet kettle. You voted for obama, PR!
HornetSting on November 17, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Why can’t they just agree to discuss how f*cking awesome I am?
blatantblue on November 17, 2009 at 9:40 PM
The word “influence” should be replaced with “influenza” throughout this thread.
disillusioned on November 17, 2009 at 9:40 PM
I don’t get it.
Palin is sooooo 2008!
blatantblue on November 17, 2009 at 9:40 PM
Yes, Doc and AP, in a rationale world it would, but in the Obama era of media, when Newsweek is doing things as intellectually dishonest as this, reviewing a book you haven’t read is simply par for the course.
Kataklysmic on November 17, 2009 at 9:41 PM
Frum is sure hung up on internal poll numbers but quick to ignore the 70% favorability rating.
Interesting.
AnninCA on November 17, 2009 at 9:41 PM
You are so awesomely awesome, MoFo!
HornetSting on November 17, 2009 at 9:41 PM
That’s fair. I hadn’t even thought ‘outside the box’ on this one. I don’t know if Oprah is the cause of our new, unfortunate, emotion-based politics, but I can’t argue that she hasn’t been a cause.
Interesting point PR. Thanks.
Russ
russcote on November 17, 2009 at 9:42 PM
How the heck did THAT happen…I was trying to comment on BB’s post. Oh well, sorry to give you the heartattack, PR.
HornetSting on November 17, 2009 at 9:42 PM
First question to be asked whilst moving forward to anyone who wants to open their pie holes and comment on Sarah and the book…
Seven Percent Solution on November 17, 2009 at 9:42 PM
Try this again~you are so awesomely awesome, MoFo.
HornetSting on November 17, 2009 at 9:43 PM
I have a built in DVR in my TV…it did say rouge for a second.
royzer on November 17, 2009 at 9:43 PM
The fact that people would review a book they haven’t read really just says it all, doesn’t it?
They prove her point about the media. But she seems pretty “over that” stuff.
I have no doubt that the flood of requests for her to speak here or do this interview have convinced her of where she’s really at politically. She’s in much better shape than people realize.
Frum is sort of funny about the quitting thing. Nobody cares.
It’s an itty-bitty state from a population. She’d already done what she needed to do, politically speaking. They have a great governor now who was in agreement with her. The transition was nearly seamless.
Frum has already been proven wrong, frankly.
AnninCA on November 17, 2009 at 9:45 PM
I am amazed at how stupid Frum is.
I find people like him and Brooks destructive for conservatism.
chicagotrauma on November 17, 2009 at 9:46 PM
Well. Now that I’ve actually listened to Frum for the first time, I have to say, holy s**t, what a weasel that man is.
And that’s before you get to the part where he claims that if Palin becomes the GOP nominee in 2012, then the GOP will get crushed the same way it got crushed when Goldwater was the nominee — yes, even after four years of the Boy-Caligula in the White House — and then Obama would proceed to turn America into Zimbabwe, which he isn’t doing now because he’s out of money. Or something. Because Sarah Palin is about as popular in this country as poison ivy. Or something.
I don’t blame Ziegler for yelling. I wanted to do some yelling myself.
Aitch748 on November 17, 2009 at 9:47 PM
Death Pannel….
Meet the Death Pannel
It is just called a Task Force.
tjexcite on November 17, 2009 at 9:47 PM
Frum = careerist knob gobbler whose audience is about as large as the crowd at a local open poetry night.
Ziegler is a self-important blowhard, but he is outstanding as a media analyst.
I love — LOVE — how Palin makes people like Brooks and Frum melt down. Brooks “joke” comment on This Week was so angry and unhinged, you could feel the angst from deep in his marrow. That is gold.
PhoenixUniversal on November 17, 2009 at 9:51 PM
If you want to entertain yourself, read this transcript. He does not play well with others. He might play with himself well, but I don’t go to Frumforum.
Spirit of 1776 on November 17, 2009 at 9:51 PM
Frum reminds me of Brooks, too. I remain convinced that they are writing their columns/thinking on the way to their kids’ soccer games.
They just aren’t tuned in.
AnninCA on November 17, 2009 at 9:52 PM
I have to give Palin credit for giving Ziegler the time of day. LOL*
He really is a nut.
AnninCA on November 17, 2009 at 9:53 PM
You’re a crazy person.
Proud Rino on November 17, 2009 at 9:37 PM
Coming from you it’s a delightful compliment.
And how can one be a “proud rino” is beyond me. Unless you are, of course, refering to the animal rhinoceros, in which case I say: “Suos cuique mos “.
lostineurope on November 17, 2009 at 9:56 PM
Just wait until they rally around their John Anderson dreamboat for 2012… all the way to a 3rd party challenge against Palin or some Palin-like figure.
CK MacLeod on November 17, 2009 at 9:56 PM
Hey now, dyslexics need jobs too.
Lily on November 17, 2009 at 9:56 PM
David Frum: “I’ve commenced the book….”
Oh, brother.
Marcus on November 17, 2009 at 9:56 PM
BadgerHawk
Feds to women in their 40s: Skip the mammogram;…death panel
Aggie95 on November 17, 2009 at 9:57 PM
Ann,
Sarah is gonna run and she will get 50%+ of the female vote and 57% of the male vote.
And, she will get 48% of the Hispanic vote, 50%+ if Rubio is her running mate.
She will beat Obama. He will not turn back to the middle like Clinton and he doesn’t have a clue or common sense.
Sapwolf on November 17, 2009 at 9:59 PM
Spirit of 1776 on November 17, 2009 at 9:51 PM
I saw that . Hewitt made him apologize.
AP linked there and I carelessly made the mistake of going to his Newmajority site once. I was impressed by how obnoxious and elite the posters were over there. Much like this guy.
chicagotrauma on November 17, 2009 at 9:59 PM
How did a canadian become the voice of the RINO’s?
unseen on November 17, 2009 at 10:00 PM
Just wait until they rally around their John Anderson dreamboat for 2012… all the way to a 3rd party challenge against Palin or some Palin-like figure.
CK MacLeod on November 17, 2009 at 9:56 PM
Like this guy.
chicagotrauma on November 17, 2009 at 10:01 PM
Snicker.. Todd should give you an a$$ whupping for your SP thought crimes.:)
katy the mean old lady on November 17, 2009 at 10:01 PM
Frum wants power and is prepared to put personalities before principles. His critique of Palin is pure snark. He doesn’t want to reconsider a Frum decision. Snide jerk.
Randy
williars on November 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM
You mean their lacrosse games. Blue-blooded mouthy beta-boys.
Sapwolf on November 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM
She will beat Obama. He will not turn back to the middle like Clinton and he doesn’t have a clue or common sense.
Sapwolf on November 17, 2009 at 9:59 PM
All we need is about 30 house seats in 2010 and 2 or 3 senate seats and Obama’s agenda dies stillborn
unseen on November 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM
Ha. That piece is awesome.
Spirit of 1776 on November 17, 2009 at 10:04 PM
Oprah might have made a contribution, but only to the variety, not to the specie.
Emotion-based politics has a much longer and older history and was already well advanced by the time she arrived on the scene. Right off the top of my head, I can point to Baba Wawa doing her emotion-based political interviewing after Harry Reasoner got her bounced from her co-anchor spot. Granted the emotion was a little more mature, but damn was broken, the trend set, and it bound to be all down hill from there.
There might be a prominent milestone further back than that, but it doesn’t come to mind right now.
Dusty on November 17, 2009 at 10:05 PM
I was making a point to anyone who feels that Palin is little more than a media circus.
‘Death Panels’ was the beginning of the end of ObamaCare. There were a bunch of other factors, but that was the spark that got everything burning.
BadgerHawk on November 17, 2009 at 10:05 PM
Did you notice how few commenters there were at any of Frum’s postings?
David Frum is……Jeremy.
Sapwolf on November 17, 2009 at 10:05 PM
damn = the dam
Dusty on November 17, 2009 at 10:07 PM
Say what?
You really believe that?
HondaV65 on November 17, 2009 at 10:14 PM
America is the aircraft carrier.
Sarah is the leader of CAP.
Her deathpanels word was her shooting down some Jap torpedo bombers.
Her book is her climbing back to altitude and waiting for the next bogies.
Sapwolf on November 17, 2009 at 10:15 PM
Yeh that’s what I was trying to say. Determining the cause for our new discourse would be a publishable PhD dissertation. As a ‘movement’, progressives have simply lowered the bar to the least common denominator of Hitler/racism/sexism accusations and poop on a stick.
There’s no where else to go but up from here….I hope.
Russ
russcote on November 17, 2009 at 10:17 PM
I’m thinking the same. Even if the GOP leadership struggles, we can still take 30 seats back in the House and 4 Senate seats and thereby STOP the madness.
Then the REAL challenge is to keep McCain and Grahamnesty and the Maine witches from going bipartisan to enlarge government further. We need to take these 4 out by 2014.
Sapwolf on November 17, 2009 at 10:18 PM
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