Webb: Criminal trials for 9/11 terrorists a bad idea
posted at 2:20 pm on November 13, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Byron York at the Washington Examiner has Senator James Webb’s repudiation of the Obama administration decision to try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other 9/11 figures in a New York City courtroom (emphasis mine):
I have never disputed the constitutional authority of the President to convene Article III courts in cases of international terrorism. However, I remain very concerned about the wisdom of doing so. Those who have committed acts of international terrorism are enemy combatants, just as certainly as the Japanese pilots who killed thousands of Americans at Pearl Harbor. It will be disruptive, costly, and potentially counterproductive to try them as criminals in our civilian courts.
The precedent set by this decision deserves careful scrutiny as we consider proper venues for trying those now held at Guantanamo who were apprehended outside of this country for acts that occurred outside of the country. And we must be especially careful with any decisions to bring onto American soil any of those prisoners who remain a threat to our country but whose cases have been adjudged as inappropriate for trial at all. They do not belong in our country, they do not belong in our courts, and they do not belong in our prisons.
I have consistently argued that military commissions, with the additional procedural rules added by Congress and enacted by President Obama, are the most appropriate venue for trying individuals adjudged to be enemy combatants.
That succinctly makes the case most of us have been making all day. Those who had committed any “crimes” within the jurisdiction of American criminal courts in connection to the 9/11 attack died in their suicide attacks. The “suspects” facing trial now committed acts of war, not crimes, and they committed them outside the jurisdiction of the US court system. Congress wrestled with this problem twice, and twice reached the solution: military tribunals or “commissions” for adjudicating the cases of KSM and his cohorts.
Webb’s dissent is remarkable for a couple of different reasons. First, he’s the best the Democrats have in the Senate for national security. He served in the Reagan administration and had built a great deal of credibility on the subject, which is why Virginians felt comfortable narrowly electing him over George Allen in 2006 — with the help of the Washington Post and the “macaca” meme. His dissent on this topic will sting, and it should.
It won’t change the trajectory of this case, unfortunately. After making such a public show of announcing the trials, there’s almost no chance that the White House will change its mind and return to the military tribunals for KSM and the other four “defendants.” Webb does demonstrate, though, just how far outside the mainstream on national-security thought Obama is now, and sets up a big I-told-you-so if something goes terribly wrong at the trial. No one can say that Obama didn’t get warned, even by his own side.
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SDarchitect on November 13, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Holder wants them to have a trial by their peers, eh? Wouldn’t they have to be flown in from Shitholastan somewhere?
Akzed on November 13, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Wow, could Obama be any more of a fuck-up?
You-Eh-Vee on November 13, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Bbbbbut maybe the terrorist will like us now.
pedestrian on November 13, 2009 at 2:23 PM
wouldn’t suprise me if Webb switches back to GOP before Obama’s term is up.
jp on November 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Not surprised whether you like Webb or not he is Country first.
Dr Evil on November 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM
When has a public show of announcing anything prevented the Obama administration from changing course later? It’ll be interesting to see what happens if the criticism of this decision continues.
icyhot on November 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM
You really want to explore the answer to that question?
highhopes on November 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Can this President hate his country any more? Can he be any more clueless?
catlady on November 13, 2009 at 2:25 PM
“Let me be clear, as I’ve always said, it’s a bad idea to try KSM in Manhattan,” -Obooba, December 2010.
Akzed on November 13, 2009 at 2:25 PM
This is all just a precursor to letting these terrorists go. I can see it now, “But they got a fair trial”… they will appeal their decision to some liberal judge and get off free. Just wait for it.
catlady on November 13, 2009 at 2:26 PM
Not really.
I’m afraid this rabbit hole doesn’t have a bottom.
You-Eh-Vee on November 13, 2009 at 2:26 PM
He’s also up for re-election in 2012. He knows that he’ll be back to writing creepy kiddie porn if he doesn’t step up. Let’s not forget that Virginia also was a site for 9/11/01 atrocities.
highhopes on November 13, 2009 at 2:27 PM
Thanks Jim. This is the best statement I have seen from you in some time. Much better than the form letters I get back after writing you.
LMAO
riverrat10k on November 13, 2009 at 2:27 PM
No matter what, this is going to end badly if it does in fact proceed. Security is going to be a
goldplatinum plated bitch for this.Johnnyreb on November 13, 2009 at 2:27 PM
But they want them in our prisons to infect others. Van Jones is a big fan of this!
PrincipledPilgrim on November 13, 2009 at 2:27 PM
We have to prove how fair and honorable our justice system is by only tyring to guys we’re sure we can convict.
-Bleeds Blue
BadgerHawk on November 13, 2009 at 2:28 PM
I’m pretty sure he will try really, really hard on both counts.
Aviator on November 13, 2009 at 2:28 PM
You-Eh-Vee on November 13, 2009 at 2:26 PM
You are correct. Right now it does look like there is a bottomless rabbit hole …
catlady on November 13, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Me no Jim.
Akzed on November 13, 2009 at 2:29 PM
I’m pretty sure he will try really, really hard on both counts.
Aviator on November 13, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Yeah that is what scares me/
catlady on November 13, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Which is why nothing will go wrong.
Show trials.
BadgerHawk on November 13, 2009 at 2:30 PM
While the media is preoccupied with this bit of asshattery from Obama, the senate is doing what with the unconstitutional health care bill?
“Wooo hooo! Look over here! Nothing happening in the senate! Lookie! Terrorists!! Oooooooooo ahhhhhhhhhh!”
csdeven on November 13, 2009 at 2:30 PM
The trial will drag on for years and they will eventually get off because some old glove doesn’t fit someone, or a key witness made some anti-Islamic statement in a blog comment somewhere.
pedestrian on November 13, 2009 at 2:31 PM
BadgerHawk on November 13, 2009 at 2:30 PM
With Holder in charge, I disagree. I think they will appeal and get off. Watch, in five years they will be walking free.
catlady on November 13, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Gee where was Jim Webb while his new party has been whining about this for 5 years? Strangely silent I believe.
Speedwagon82 on November 13, 2009 at 2:31 PM
As I’ve posted before it isn’t going to get that far. The administration will call off the prosecution citing the national security need to protect the methods used by the CIA or some similar pretense. Making these into civil trials is essentially a halfway step to freeing the terrorists which our Muslim and terrorist loving “President” really wants. He never had any intention of taking them to trial, he just needed them out of GITMO so that he could close it down.
Mark my words, KSM will be able to kill thousands more Americans because of Barak Hussein Obama- fellow Muslim and friend of Al Qaeda. Next step abandon Afghanistan so that KSM has a place to build terrorist training camps.
highhopes on November 13, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Melon Head Webb has about as much credibility with me on national security as Goober Lindsay Graham does on immigration. He’s a sell-out and a bum.
Percy_Peabody on November 13, 2009 at 2:32 PM
With Holder in charge, I disagree. I think they will appeal and get off. Watch, in five years they will be walking free.
catlady on November 13, 2009 at 2:31 PM
I agree. KSM will walk.
txag92 on November 13, 2009 at 2:32 PM
It’ll be interesting to see if any other Senate Dems join Webb, or if the rest of them will just let him twist in the wind all by himself.
Gator Country on November 13, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Webb just saw the VA voting results.
GULP!
artist on November 13, 2009 at 2:33 PM
I hope this becomes an issue in 2010 NY governor’s and senate races. I’d like to see Patterson/Cuomo and Gillibrand defending it.
Wethal on November 13, 2009 at 2:33 PM
Careful what precedents you set: Zombies, Vampires, Werewolves, and Other Monsters Exploit Obama Terrorism Precedents http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/08/vampires-werewolves-and-other-monsters.html
Mervis Winter on November 13, 2009 at 2:34 PM
I’m glad SEN Webb is demonstrating leadership on this topic. Although I do not agree with most of his positions, he was SECNAV when I entered basic training in 1989 and I have a long held respect for him.
Good on you SEN Webb. Keep doing that.
ted c on November 13, 2009 at 2:34 PM
I can’t bring myself to believe that.
I think this entire move is a way to be ‘not Bush’ and throw a bone to the left by trashing him. There’s no way they want these guys to get off.
A ’show trial’ for only the guys they know they can convict lets them repudiate the Bush years while still serving ‘justice’.
I suppose only time will tell what the real motivations are for this, but the jab Bush in the eye, at this point in time, seems a lot more likely than wanting to let KSM go.
BadgerHawk on November 13, 2009 at 2:37 PM
3 years left……Don’t underestimate Barry O’bumbler.
portlandon on November 13, 2009 at 2:38 PM
I don’t even think there will be a trial.
ORconservative on November 13, 2009 at 2:38 PM
I guess we’ll find out which is stronger – Obama’s unabashed hatred of America if he lets KSM get off, or Obama’s craven political opportunism if he conducts a show trial and puts him to death. Either way, he’s gotta sacrifice something.
World B. Free on November 13, 2009 at 2:39 PM
highhopes on November 13, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Ahhh… the light bulb goes on. Hadnt considered that angle, thanks for the insight. Yep, there you go, that’s the way it will go down.
This has been a bad week for America, first the POS health care bill in the House, now this, and of course refusing to see that Ft Hood was the work of Jihadist. I have a headache…
catlady on November 13, 2009 at 2:39 PM
This is all a planned event. Blue Dogs get to bark and howl to save their seats. Doesn’t hurt Obama at all.
faraway on November 13, 2009 at 2:40 PM
3 years left……Don’t underestimate Barry O’bumbler.
portlandon on November 13, 2009 at 2:38 PM
What infuriates me is his arrogance that he thinks he will get re elected after pulling this crap. And he very well could, since we dont have any viable candidates on the horizon.
catlady on November 13, 2009 at 2:40 PM
This, and everything else Obama does makes sense if you accept one simple premise:
He is just not on our side.
MADgirl91 on November 13, 2009 at 2:42 PM
9/11? Never heard of it. – Charlie Gibson
lorien1973 on November 13, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Let me try and get this right; terrorists who have publicly admitted their guilt will be transported to America, given Constitutional Rights, totally free legal representation, have their “jury of peers” (what a freaking joke that one is!), be allowed access to every government document under “discovery”, have their case heard before a judge appointed by Bill Clinton, have their confessions declared inadmissible under the rules of criminal procedure, be found INNOCENT on some major technicality that only a libtard lawyer could commit, and then walk out on to 42nd Street and “catch dinner and a show” before getting a free lift back to wherever they came from. Sounds about right. What an incredibly idiotic decision this one is!!!!
GoldenEagle4444 on November 13, 2009 at 2:44 PM
Jim Webb to the right of McCain. Heh.
Fletch54 on November 13, 2009 at 2:44 PM
Question, do you allow muslims on the jury?
What if the muslim on the jury is a lone holdout saying not guilty?
How would you possibly proceed?
redshirt on November 13, 2009 at 2:45 PM
I still can’t comprehend that anybody thinks this is a good idea. This is going to backfire in ways that I don’t think even we on this blog can comprehend.
Dare we hope this is the straw that breaks the hold that Dr. Utopia has on the country.
gophergirl on November 13, 2009 at 2:46 PM
I’m waiting for the joint statement from Glenn Greenwald, Andrew Sullivan, and Levi Johnston before I make up my mind on this one.
CK MacLeod on November 13, 2009 at 2:47 PM
Webb lost all credibility joining the Obama party. The voice of reason sounds like a panicked politician at end game.
Hening on November 13, 2009 at 2:47 PM
I doubt it. He’s a liberal on a lot of things. Hell, if he went GOP, th WaPo would use his novels against him.
hawksruleva on November 13, 2009 at 2:51 PM
Webb: That 18-pt win by McDonnell scares the Obama out of me!
SouthernGent on November 13, 2009 at 2:51 PM
He’s not f-ing up, as in bumbling. He’s doing these things on purpose and any bad outcome for the USA that will come from this is his intent.
baldilocks on November 13, 2009 at 2:51 PM
My question is; How does Holder get the authority to trump the U.S. Military? And, is this Constitutional?
Our Forefathers are cursing and spinning in their graves at Obama and his cronies who are taking this country to an Islamic type of government.
Cybergeezer on November 13, 2009 at 2:51 PM
Obama promised to close Gitmo. He and his dopey advisors have decided this is step one to achieving that goal.
Obama has no problem threatening the safety of Americans on their own soil or creating a legal environment where KSM and friends could actually be set free.
He will sacrifice us and help our sworn enemies.
All this to save his political skin.
Despicable.
fogw on November 13, 2009 at 2:51 PM
They will have to break the chain first.
Aviator on November 13, 2009 at 2:52 PM
You know we’re screwed when even Dr. Kiddie Porn thinks the Obama Administration is making stupid decisions.
amerpundit on November 13, 2009 at 2:53 PM
Would a Muslim deny these men of the glory of being martyred? An all-Muslim jury would probably help build a gallows for him, singing praises all the while.
hawksruleva on November 13, 2009 at 2:53 PM
He is full of clue as to what he’s doing: destroying this country.
baldilocks on November 13, 2009 at 2:54 PM
Of course it is a planned event. Do you really see Obama standing by and letting the terrorists get put to death? Do you see the stupid people who support him on the left being happy if capital punishment is carried out? No chance in the world our terrorist and Muslim loving “President” is going to kill off a fellow Muslim.
highhopes on November 13, 2009 at 2:54 PM
Yea; I know that’s two questions, but, that’s how the media poses questions!
Cybergeezer on November 13, 2009 at 2:54 PM
Here’s one for ya – how does the NYPD keep their guys on security detail for this trial? How do bailiffs who lost friends on 9/11 stand guard throughout this trial?
There’s likely to be some massive protests in New York over this.
hawksruleva on November 13, 2009 at 2:55 PM
If that happens, it will be a generation before another “Democrat” is elected to the WH.
james23 on November 13, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Amateur Hour with yet another encore- keep digging Barry, your poll numbers can still go lower before 2010- Who’s advising this guy anyhow,Jimmy Carter???????
huskerdiva on November 13, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Graves of dead American soldiers and citizens most definitely have bottoms. That is the only place this farce can end.
Military tribunals. Finding of fact. Recommendation of punishment (if any).
Again – I believe these men to be guilty and in need of execution.
Everything else is a waste of time, a mockery of our system of justice, and a danger to the nation’s security.
alexwest on November 13, 2009 at 2:56 PM
I’d say vetted by his party leaders. It won’t sting at all because it’s politically expedient for him and the Democrats to have him say this.
And the whole point of having this kind of trial is the discovery process. Eric Holder is more interested in prosecuting Americans he disagrees with than pursuing justice for these terrorists.
Asher on November 13, 2009 at 2:56 PM
As I’ve posted earlier on another thread. How do you make the claim of finding an impartial jury in NYC? Since these people were not on the planes, the trial does not have to happen in NYC or DC. It is just part of the show but as soon as the trial starts the change of venue motions will start.
highhopes on November 13, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Will the term “terrorist” be allowed to be used in this prosecution?
Cybergeezer on November 13, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Isn’t it possible the courts will simply not hear the case and declare it out of their jurisdiction?
Resolute on November 13, 2009 at 2:58 PM
Sorry. I’m skeptical that a conviction can be obtained with the rules of evidence required in a U.S. court of law. Even if they are able to obtain a conviction, I’m afraid of the price. You know that every lefty defense lawyer is itching to take this case. We didn’t get the goods on KSM through outstanding CSI techniques and the lawyers will be demanding release of sensitive information that could damage our intelligence capabilities. The NYT won’t have to find lefty intel agents to give up the goods. Holder will be handing it over in court.
RedinPDRM on November 13, 2009 at 2:59 PM
What happens if the frikkin terrorists are found guilty in a NYC courtroom? Doesn’t that paint a big target on NYC?
Guardian on November 13, 2009 at 3:00 PM
I like the way Israel dealt with the Munich murderers better .
borntoraisehogs on November 13, 2009 at 3:01 PM
IMHO the attack was an act of war carried out by enemies. New York City is a place to try American citizens, not foreign enemies. There are so many ways this can go bad for us.
scalleywag on November 13, 2009 at 3:01 PM
Webb is not a fanatical liberal with a chip on his shoulder, unlike a great deal of the rest of his party.
Terrye on November 13, 2009 at 3:02 PM
Not only that, where can you find a jury of their peers?
Terrye on November 13, 2009 at 3:04 PM
Bottom line?
One more thing to blame on George W. Bush.
The more I think on this one, the more I’m convinced it’s the absolute dumbest legal decision I’ve ever heard…or heard OF.
GoldenEagle4444 on November 13, 2009 at 3:05 PM
Well they’re not POWs so therefore they’re covered under Article 3 or the Geneva convention. The Bush Administration thought they’d be clever and use “enemy combatant” or “unlawful combatant”, terms that never occur in the Geneva or Hague conventions.
The Calibur on November 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM
We have to prove how fair and honorable our justice system is by only tyring to guys we’re sure we can convict.
-Bleeds Blue
BadgerHawk on November 13, 2009 at 2:28 PM
-Blows Blue:
you’re no patriot…
max1 on November 13, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Question, do you allow muslims on the jury?
What if the muslim on the jury is a lone holdout saying not guilty?
How would you possibly proceed?
redshirt on November 13, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Simple, hung jury…member…
max1 on November 13, 2009 at 3:13 PM
We have to prove how fair and honorable our justice system is by only tyring to guys we’re sure we can convict.
-Bleeds Blue
BadgerHawk on November 13, 2009 at 2:28 PM
-Blows Blue:
you’re no patriot…
max1 on November 13, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Oh, ’scuse me Badger, I thought that was a bonafide Blows Blue comment!
max1 on November 13, 2009 at 3:14 PM
He’s from Virginia, isn’t he?
I don’t trust any Democrats.
JellyToast on November 13, 2009 at 3:16 PM
This Trial is a distraction from the real goal, PelosiCare for Christmas. Otherwise they would wait till January!
el Vaquero on November 13, 2009 at 3:17 PM
They spent a long time in Guantanamo; Maybe they’ll get off with “Time served”.
Cybergeezer on November 13, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Even if nothing “goes wrong” in he prosecution, it doesn’t mean that nothing will “go wrong” outside the courtroom. Like a terrorist attack.
exlibris on November 13, 2009 at 3:19 PM
How about some action Webb? Man up and back up your words.
Wade on November 13, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Fort Hood
Wade on November 13, 2009 at 3:21 PM
What does the Geneva/Hague convolutions say about muslim-jihadi-killers of infidels who live and hide among women and children ?
macncheez on November 13, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Well, look, it seems to me the reason this is happening is that Obama needs to shore up his support in the whacko fringe of the party. By giving these scum civilian trials he is giving the Truthers a platform to shout about “what really happened” on September 11th. You watch. it will turn into a Bash Bushfest just in time for the 2010 elections to divert attention away from the shit sandwich the Dems will have made of the Economy.
Mr. Bingley on November 13, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Webb: I like Obama but I would like to be reelected some day.
Rocks on November 13, 2009 at 3:34 PM
Here comes more of the lefty way of doing things: A term is somehow invalid because it doesn’t appear in some historical text or document. Since the term is invalid, so is the entire American case.
Might as well divert the plane from Gitmo to NYC, instead to the country of KSM’s choice. And maybe let him sit at the controls, too.
Liam on November 13, 2009 at 3:37 PM
I do not like Webb one bit but this gives me hope that not every Democrat is going to go along with our farce President.
ORconservative on November 13, 2009 at 3:37 PM
I was watching some show the last couple days, NatGeo or something, that said in some countries, “macaca” is the sound a monkey makes.
misterpeasea on November 13, 2009 at 3:38 PM
Webb also doesn’t want any of these people tried in federal district court in Alexandria. That is the most Democratic city in the state. If the voters there get pissed off about having terrorists in their midst and getting called to serve on juries that will make them terrorist targets, they will not be happy campers when Mr. Webb runs for reelection.
rockmom on November 13, 2009 at 3:38 PM
Webb supported Obama.
An unqualified, junior b.s. artist from a corrupt Chicago machine.
Suck on it, now, sucker.
You bought it, you eat it.
profitsbeard on November 13, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Uhm, this Whitehouse changes its mind all the time remember? All his words have expiration dates. Why cant his words have expiration dates on this completely insane decision?
javamartini on November 13, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Jesus! What a pile of slimy shat!
Cybergeezer on November 13, 2009 at 3:41 PM
It seems Webb is following orders from the White House on this.
There is no way the WH mediamachine is not controlling both Webb and Holder
macncheez on November 13, 2009 at 3:42 PM
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