Porkulus job numbers “wildly exaggerated”: Boston Globe?
posted at 8:48 am on November 12, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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And yes, that’s a direct quote from the Boston Globe’s news section, not an editorial — and frankly, I’m not sure which would have been more surprising. It seems that the brush with death on Morrissey Boulevard has sharpened the objectivity of the Globe, which is still owned by the New York Times, at least enough to add Massachusetts to the states discovering that the Obama administration’s claims of jobs “saved or created” are fraudulent:
While Massachusetts recipients of federal stimulus money collectively report 12,374 jobs saved or created, a Globe review shows that number is wildly exaggerated. Organizations that received stimulus money miscounted jobs, filed erroneous figures, or claimed jobs for work that has not yet started.
That lead has appeared in almost that exact form in every newspaper that has bothered to check on Obama’s numbers.
One of the largest reported jobs figures comes from Bridgewater State College, which is listed as using $77,181 in stimulus money for 160 full-time work-study jobs for students. But Bridgewater State spokesman Bryan Baldwin said the college made a mistake and the actual number of new jobs was “almost nothing.’’ Bridgewater has submitted a correction, but it is not yet reflected in the report.
In other cases, federal money that recipients already receive annually – subsidies for affordable housing, for example – was reclassified this year as stimulus spending, and the existing jobs already supported by those programs were credited to stimulus spending. Some of these recipients said they did not even know the money they were getting was classified as stimulus funds until September, when federal officials told them they had to file reports.
“There were no jobs created. It was just shuffling around of the funds,’’ said Susan Kelly, director of property management for Boston Land Co., which reported retaining 26 jobs with $2.7 million in rental subsidies for its affordable housing developments in Waltham. “It’s hard to figure out if you did the paperwork right. We never asked for this.’’
The federal stimulus report for Massachusetts has so many errors, missing data, or estimates instead of actual job counts that it may be impossible to accurately tally how many people have been employed by the massive infusion of federal money. Massachusetts is expected to receive an estimated $1 billion more in stimulus contracts, grants, and loans.
Massachusetts has already received $4 billion in stimulus funds. Even accepting the initial Obama claim, that comes to over $323,000 per job saved or created. At that rate, the remaining $1 billion would create less that 4500 new jobs. That hardly seems like a cost-effective way to create new jobs. The only jobs it “saved”, to the extent it did it at all, were those of bureaucrats. The Globe reports later in the article that the money went to cover state budget gaps, as we have seen in nearly every application, and not towards any economic stimulus.
How many jobs has Massachusetts lost this year in the same period while Porkulus “shuffles” funds? More importantly, how many will Massachusetts lose in the future as the federal government pulls capital out of the private sector to pay off Porkulus debt? How many investors saw this as a price signal and kept themselves liquid rather than help start new businesses or expand existing ones in order to prepare for the deluge of taxation to follow?
If the Obama administration has lost the Boston Globe, then they have lost credibility with everyone. Well, okay, not MS-NBC and its leg-tingle anchors, but only pink slips would wake them up anyway.
Let’s add Massachusetts to this august list of states whose media are discovering the fraud of Porkulus:
- New Hampshire
- Florida and Georgia
- Ohio
- Wisconsin
- New Jersey
- Virginia
- Texas
- Illinois
- Colorado
- Washington
- Massachusetts
More will be forthcoming, and when they do, we’ll feature them here at Hot Air.
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Maybe the Globe is angling for a 2nd stimulus.
Maxpower on November 12, 2009 at 8:50 AM
My goodness.
What a racist article.
Good Lt on November 12, 2009 at 8:52 AM
As is this President’s:
Perceived mandate
Leadership ability
Accomplishments
Bipartisanship
Truthfulness
Transparency
Oratory effectiveness
singlemalt_18 on November 12, 2009 at 8:53 AM
Alright, the criminality and theft is over. Time to drag this entire administration from the White House.
Bishop on November 12, 2009 at 8:53 AM
Then it was worth it – who else is going to give us our freedoms and protect is from evil corporations? / Grow Fins
gwelf on November 12, 2009 at 8:54 AM
If no jobs are being created then where the hell is all the money going? Or should I say whose pocket …
darwin on November 12, 2009 at 8:54 AM
How long before that list of ststes reaches 57?
SHARPTOOTH on November 12, 2009 at 8:54 AM
In Somalia
You take care of your clan first.
Also Chicago…
Haiku Guy on November 12, 2009 at 8:54 AM
Looks like the tide is turning.
loudmouth883 on November 12, 2009 at 8:55 AM
I’m afraid I don’t know what that means, but I’d like to. Any link explaining that one?
therightscoop on November 12, 2009 at 8:55 AM
You Lie!
Dr_Irish on November 12, 2009 at 8:55 AM
Obviously the only solution is to immerse the United States into full blown communism. Only more government and gulags can save us now.
darwin on November 12, 2009 at 8:56 AM
Obama’s propaganda machines are in need of maintenance. Believe this administration at your own peril.
rplat on November 12, 2009 at 8:56 AM
You’re more optimistic than I am even that would turn the MSNBC anchors around. Keith will be blaming Bush 40 years from now if the rice pudding’s lumpy at the nursing home.
jon1979 on November 12, 2009 at 8:56 AM
When you’ve lost the Boston Globe…
misterpeasea on November 12, 2009 at 8:57 AM
I believe Ed was referring to the financial woes of the Globe which nearly caused them to go under.
gwelf on November 12, 2009 at 8:58 AM
That’s about $482.38 per year per student, which translates to a salary far below the poverty line.
unclesmrgol on November 12, 2009 at 8:58 AM
Shovel-ready job.
unclesmrgol on November 12, 2009 at 9:00 AM
But what does that have to do with ‘Morrissey Blvd’?
therightscoop on November 12, 2009 at 9:00 AM
That’s great, but even more exciting would be to document anytime the Obama administration actually tells the TRUTH about anything! Would be a short list.
Christian Conservative on November 12, 2009 at 9:01 AM
Don’t forget California!
Cal State Univ. exaggeration:
http://www.sacbee.com/education/story/2311049.html
cs89 on November 12, 2009 at 9:01 AM
I told you this yesterday Ed!! How about a little “shout out” to this loyal Hot Air reader!!!!
Tom66 on November 12, 2009 at 9:02 AM
Boston Globe’s address:
135 Morrissey Blvd,. Boston, MA 02125
gwelf on November 12, 2009 at 9:02 AM
But only 502,000 people filed new unemployment claims this month. The recession is over. Why are you so worried about silly “numbers”. The One knows what he is doing.
milwife88 on November 12, 2009 at 9:03 AM
The Globe’s offices are on Morrissey Boulevard, and they almost got sold off and/or shut down thanks to some tough negotiations between their unions and the NYT management.
Ed Morrissey on November 12, 2009 at 9:03 AM
therightscoop on November 12, 2009 at 9:00 AM
The Globe is listed as having “135 Morrissey Blvd” as their address.
cs89 on November 12, 2009 at 9:04 AM
Out and out fraud and theft.
If we had an honest government, there would be jobs for a lot more prosecutors bringing this thieving administration to justice. Not to mention jobs for a lot more prison guards.
Dear Liar and His cronies are not merely robbing our piggy bank, they are robbing the children’s piggy bank.
rbj on November 12, 2009 at 9:04 AM
The Globe reported this at the exact moment a unicorn flew out of my a$$.
In a related observation, Leg Tingle is actually admitting some truths about Democrats and their fellow travelers.
They’re scared; the few sane ones realize, at last, that a sociopath is sitting in the Oval Office.
mr1216 on November 12, 2009 at 9:06 AM
This porkulus bill worked so well ten states are about to go under and each is cutting jobs and services. If a government handout can’t even keep government workers on the payroll, it would have to be considered an historical flop!
900,000 Jobs at Stake:
joedoe on November 12, 2009 at 9:08 AM
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
wow, that’s just a quoinkie-dink.
I thought it was a reference to how Ed was taking them down. Heh.
therightscoop on November 12, 2009 at 9:08 AM
Well, I’ll go to our ‘ouse!
OldEnglish on November 12, 2009 at 9:09 AM
It’s great to see the AP and all these newspapers calling the Obama Administration on its BS. But I’d love it even more if reporters would go after Obama, Axelrod, Rahm, Gibbs, and especially Biden in interviews and press conferences with these manufactured numbers. Unemployment is at 10.2% and climbing. This isn’t a joke anymore.
Doughboy on November 12, 2009 at 9:15 AM
Never fear, the Prez is coming on TV (again) to announce a “job summit” in December. I am not sure if beer will be served, but I am glued to the tv for all the “details”.
What the french?
milwife88 on November 12, 2009 at 9:25 AM
No. It means the tidal wave about to hit us is only 40 feet high instead of 50.
Have a nice day!
Bat Chain Puller on November 12, 2009 at 9:27 AM
So if I file a wildly exaggerated report regarding my earnings with the federal government, I go to jail. If the federal government files a wildly exaggerated report regarding ‘public money’, what happens? Lies have consequences, no?
clorensen on November 12, 2009 at 9:28 AM
The upcoming jobs summit will cure everything so no worries.
txag92 on November 12, 2009 at 9:28 AM
Whoa! We are going to borrow or print money (because that’s what PorkULess is, borrowed or created) to pay down the debt of borrowed money? What a concept! Isn’t that sort of like Biden’s spending money to get out of debt? Why doesn’t O stop with the shell game and simply NOT SPEND all of PorkULess!
katablog.com on November 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM
Management at The Glob probably took a quick glance at the unemployment outlook inside their own building.
“The prospect of one’s own hanging clears the mind wonderfully.” – Samuel Johnson
viking01 on November 12, 2009 at 9:30 AM
Breaking News, Politics, Top News, Washington »
Recanvassing shows NY-23 race tightens even as Rep. Bill Owens is sworn into House seat
By Mark Weiner / The Post-Standard
November 12, 2009, 6:02AM
2009-11-05-ap-Owens.JPGThe Associated PressDemocrat Bill Owens delivers his victory speech at his headquarters in Plattsburgh last week. Owens declared victory after Conservative nominee Doug Hoffman conceded the 23rd Congressional District race election night. Now recanvassing shows the special election has narrowed to a 3,000-vote difference, and will be decided by a count of absentee ballots.Washington — Conservative Doug Hoffman conceded the race in the 23rd Congressional District last week after receiving two pieces of grim news for his campaign: He was down 5,335 votes with 93 percent of the vote counted on election night, and he had barely won his stronghold in Oswego County.
As it turns out, neither was true.
But Hoffman’s concession — based on snafus in Oswego County and elsewhere that left his vote undercounted — set off a chain of events that echoed all the way to Washington, D.C., and helped secure passage of a historic health care reform bill.
Democratic Rep. Bill Owens was quickly sworn into office on Friday, a day before the rare weekend vote in the House of Representatives. His support sealed his party’s narrow victory on the health care legislation.
Now a recanvassing in the 11-county district shows that Owens’ lead has narrowed to 3,026 votes over Hoffman, 66,698 to 63,672, according to the latest unofficial results from the state Board of Elections.
In Oswego County, where Hoffman was reported to lead by only 500 votes with 93 percent of the vote counted election night, inspectors found Hoffman actually won by 1,748 votes — 12,748 to 11,000.
The new vote totals mean the race will be decided by absentee ballots, of which about 10,200 were distributed, said John Conklin, communications director for the state Board of Elections.
Under a new law in New York that extended deadlines, military and overseas ballots received by this coming Monday (and postmarked by Nov. 2) will be counted. Standard absentee ballots had to be returned this past Monday.
Conklin said the state sent a letter to the House Clerk last week explaining that no winner had been determined in the 23rd District, and therefore the state had not certified the election. But the letter noted that Owens still led by about 3,000 votes, and that the special election was not contested — two factors that legally allowed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to swear in Owens on Friday.
“We sent a letter to the clerk laying out the totals,” Conklin said. “The key is that Hoffman conceded, which means the race is not contested. However, all ballots will be counted, and if the result changes, Owens will have to be removed.”
Before Owens was sworn in Friday, Rep. John Garamendi, a Democrat who won a special election in California, was sworn in Thursday. The two gave Pelosi the votes she needed to reach a majority of 218 and pass the historic health care reform legislation in the House.
The bill passed 220-215 late Saturday with the support of only one Republican. The Republican, Rep. Anh “Joseph” Cao of Louisiana, said he voted for the legislation only after seeing that Democrats had the 218 votes needed for passage.
Now Hoffman, who campaigned against the health care reform bill, is carefully watching as the 23rd District race tightens and he is left to wonder if he conceded too soon.
“I don’t know if we would have conceded on election night,” Rob Ryan, Hoffman’s campaign spokesman, said Wednesday while discussing the latest results of the recanvassing. “I’m someone who doesn’t like to look back. But would we have taken longer to make a decision on election night? Probably, if we knew it was only 3,000 votes making the difference.”
Ryan, while acknowledging that Hoffman’s chances of pulling off a come-from-behind victory are still remote, said the campaign is looking at its legal options.
“We’re basically watching and waiting,” Ryan said. “We’ve been looking very closely at the recanvass. We’re going to see how this week shapes up, and then we’re going to determine what to do.”
Ryan said an important factor in the decision to concede was the unexpected — and erroneous — close vote in Oswego County, where polls had Hoffman with a double digit percentage point lead heading into Election Day.
“That’s the thing that threw us off,” Ryan said.
Oswego County elections officials blame the mistakes on “chaos” in their call-in center that included a phone system foul-up and inspectors who read numbers incorrectly when phoning in results. Of 245 races in the county — not including the congressional and court races — 84 had incorrect totals reported election night.
In the congressional race, more votes were cast in Oswego County than any other in the 11-county district.
The district’s second biggest voter turnout was in Jefferson County, where Hoffman also has benefited from a turnaround since election night, gaining about 700 votes. Owens led Hoffman by 300 votes on the final election night tally. But after recanvassing, Hoffman now leads by 424 votes, 10,884 to 10,460.
Jerry Eaton, the Republican elections commissioner for Jefferson County, said inspectors found a problem in four districts where Hoffman’s vote total was mistakenly entered as zero.
“Hoffman definitely gained votes where he didn’t have them,” Eaton said.
Jefferson County, home of Fort Drum and the Army’s 10th Mountain Division, distributed 2,299 absentee ballots for the special election. As of this week, 1,303 had been returned but not counted, Eaton said. He said the county will begin counting the absentee ballots earyl next week.
Conklin, of the state Board of Elections, said officials did not have updated absentee ballot totals from the other counties.
When asked about the tightening race, Owens spokesman Jon Boughtin released a statement without directly addressing the election. “Since being elected, Congressman Owens has remained focused on the issues at hand: working with local leaders to address the Champlain Bridge closure, meeting with commanders at Fort Drum and continuing the work to strengthen Upstate New York,” the statement said.
Ryan said the absentee ballots are likely to favor Hoffman because most were likely mailed before Republican Dede Scozzafava suspended her campaign three days before the election.
“For Doug to win, we needed a three-way race,” Ryan said, adding that the campaign’s internal polls showed Hoffman would win with all three candidates.
“Given the majority of these ballots are from a three-way race, we think the ballots are going to break Doug’s way,” Ryan said.
Ryan declined to say what percentage of the absentee vote the campaign believes Hoffman would need to win the race. Nevertheless, Hoffman’s campaign is optimistic.
“When people look back at this race, it was a remote possibility that Doug Hoffman would be a contender,” Ryan said. “But miracles do happen.
Washington correspondent Mark Weiner can be reached at mweiner@syracuse.com or 571-970-3751.
nondhimmie on November 12, 2009 at 9:30 AM
It won’t sink in with the masses until the headline reads:
“INCOMPETANT ADMINISTRATION FAILS AGAIN”
anniekc on November 12, 2009 at 9:32 AM
There needs to be a drum beat from the media that tells people that wealth can ONLY come from the people NOT the government. The private sector creates ALL the wealth in America, the public sector only spends it.
C’mon media do your job.
Mojave Mark on November 12, 2009 at 9:32 AM
The unemployment lines should be increased by the federal employees employed by all these ridiculous federal programs.
BuckeyeSam on November 12, 2009 at 9:33 AM
Can someone explain to me how using TARP to pay down the deficit works?
txag92 on November 12, 2009 at 9:33 AM
Duh! It’s like when I took out a loan and gave the money to my wife to pay down family debts. Worked like a champ!
WashJeff on November 12, 2009 at 9:36 AM
In 2015 the Boston Globe will be telling all of us that government run health “care” will increase the deficit.
SouthernGent on November 12, 2009 at 9:42 AM
Huh? We really don’t care that we are going to lose the about half of the entire Defense budget? Weren’t the Dems in Congress saying we were going to make money from the TARP?
Johnnyreb on November 12, 2009 at 9:45 AM
Work study is typically 8 hours a week, and it likely for one semester. Which is pretty accurate. The problem is they normally get that money anyway… why count it as stimulus now?
.
The problem of course all these jobs being “saved” or created are government jobs. There are no private sector jobs being created with the stimulus money.
.
It is all to the takers not the doers.
Dasher on November 12, 2009 at 9:46 AM
I’ll repeat what I posted in Karl’s post:
Here’s a thought…..Obama’s heading to Asia for an economic summit. I wonder if Obama will ask China for more money using his CRA as a model, since it worked so well here in the U.S. ???
If the Chinese were smart, they’d tell Obama to fill out a loan application, and be sure to list assets not propped up by federal money from their worn-out printing presses.
(perhaps two well-used Greek pillars will have some value)
Rovin on November 12, 2009 at 9:30 AM
Rovin on November 12, 2009 at 9:48 AM
How is this colossal fraud not bigger than watergate?
marklmail on November 12, 2009 at 9:49 AM
Stock Car Economy — We started our stock car from the ground up – they were fast but burnt too much fuel – Uncle Sam said,make them run on less fuel – we did but had a few lemons – soon we were racing again – but we could not drill for our own fuel Uncle Sam made us buy it from overseas that way we wouldn’t spill any on our ground or spoil his view – we said ok – but fuel kept going up in price – we were still fast but we couldn’t afford new parts or fuel – we had to lay off the crew and park the car — Uncle Sam came up with the idea to pay the crew to push the car – now if we get to start the car again Uncle Sam said he will Tax us not only on the fuel but on the exhaust too . Uncle Sam has turned into a control freak — more and more looking like a Tyrant – Its time to throw him and his freeloading friends out of the house we built for him to live in . And get back to our original Contract
wheels on November 12, 2009 at 9:51 AM
Maybe Malia should take over for her dad and his Marxist traitors? A 73% is waaaaaay better than what those idiots are producing.
csdeven on November 12, 2009 at 9:51 AM
.
Technically the TARP was accounted for in in the 2009 budget, and if the money is returned to the treasury it will reduce the 2010 deficit. The net to the DEBT would be zero.
Dasher on November 12, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Pelosi always had enough votes. She would have simply twisted a few more arms and promised more political favors if Hoffman had won. Conservatives made more ground by bitch slapping the republican leadership than winning this election.
csdeven on November 12, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Where are the investigations, where are the republicans, where is the Idependent counsel?
Drag this lyin bedwetter of a POTUS before a judge or jury and put him on oath!
The lyin Pinnochio cannot and will not tell the truth so then IMPEACH his Anti-American ass!
dhunter on November 12, 2009 at 9:59 AM
When do we get to hear Obama say “I am not a crook”??????
search4truth on November 12, 2009 at 10:01 AM
Is the only difference between the Democrat Party and the mob now the scope of the thefts? The mob certainly manages to makes millions of dollars “disappear” from government projects, but Obama has managed to make tens of billions of dollars just plain “disappear”.
18-1 on November 12, 2009 at 10:01 AM
But wait! TOTUS was just on the tube again stating that he created a million jobs. And that sometime in December, he’ll have a little circle jerk summit to talk about it!
/What a fracken moron!
Key West Reader on November 12, 2009 at 10:02 AM
Massachusetts is in deep deep trouble, the Globe is just getting in front of it.
It’s first duty, as it sees it, is to protect the MA democrat party first, the national party second, when the state goes down the financial toilet they need someone to blame.
Rebar on November 12, 2009 at 10:10 AM
I wonder why all of the mistakes were in the favor of the dem? Another Minnesota?
Johan Klaus on November 12, 2009 at 10:13 AM
Can I coin this:
“The Bureaucrat Bailout”
Joe Caps on November 12, 2009 at 10:19 AM
It’s been great for the czar business! I expect to see late night infomercials popping up for czar schools at any time now.
joedoe on November 12, 2009 at 10:23 AM
The media does have a survial instinct.
Theworldisnotenough on November 12, 2009 at 10:23 AM
It’s the ACORN effect. A conservative automatically needs 60% of the vote now to win. If not, the crooks will steal the election.
Christian Conservative on November 12, 2009 at 10:25 AM
The only job worth saving at the Boston Globe belongs to Jeff Jacoby.
greasywrench on November 12, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Boston Globe to the liberals who ran it into the ground:
“I spit my last breath at thee”.
SKYFOX on November 12, 2009 at 10:33 AM
Freedom – bleeds blue
success – crr6
daesleeper on November 12, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Obama lied; jobs died.
Left Coast Right Mind on November 12, 2009 at 10:56 AM
Obama is paying off the BBF’s. Best Beaureaucratic Friends.
seven on November 12, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Ya but fox news had this clip that had teabaggers from two different days…That is important.
tomas on November 12, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Given the current employment situation, it’s complete true that this administration (or any administration) could claim that it has “saved or created” 150 million jobs, but it would be a meaningless claim since the vast majority would be those infamous “saved” jobs.
Frankly, this whole regime of “saved or created” jobs has the same smell to it as the VietNam War “body counts.”
J_Crater on November 12, 2009 at 11:24 AM
To bad they didn’t pull their collective heads out of their areses BEFORE they helped elect this tool of a man.
capejasmine on November 12, 2009 at 11:31 AM
I think Obama’s Achilles heel will be Xmas retail sales figures.
The numbers will be so bad that his propaganda partners in the states media will have to admit the truth that we are heading into and Armageddon like irreversible depression.
TheSitRep on November 12, 2009 at 11:35 AM
wildly exaggerated
a recurring them perhaps?
Obama’s experience…
wildly exaggerated
Obama’s qualifications as an author????
wildly exaggerated
Obama’s leadership characteristics….
wildly exaggerated
The media’s assertions regarding Obama’s job performance…?
wildly exaggerated
now I get it… At least they’re being perfectly consistent….
ted c on November 12, 2009 at 11:40 AM
When a lib loses the Globe, all hope is lost.
rjoco1 on November 12, 2009 at 11:42 AM
Because if the media does not report it then it did not happen and does not matter.
Most people only buy the truth the media dictates.
Soon though, the emporer will be seen as nude.
TheSitRep on November 12, 2009 at 11:44 AM
Worse than that, there is no such thing as “full-time work-study” jobs. Full time students get part-time work-study jobs.
taznar on November 12, 2009 at 11:54 AM
WHERE IS SHERIFF JOE? WASN’T HE SUPPOSED TO BE WATCHING OUT FOR THE US TAXPAYER?
GarandFan on November 12, 2009 at 12:06 PM
Why bother making a list? The obvious pattern shown here is that the stimulus isn’t being used to ’save or create jobs’ as claimed by the administration. Might as well list every state that received stimulus funds, stamp the list FAIL in big red letters, and brand the entire effort as a fraud.
joejm65 on November 12, 2009 at 12:09 PM
May be they figured out that if they started to tell the truth people would possibly buy their rag once again!
BigMike252 on November 12, 2009 at 12:09 PM
Only if all the other liberal fishwrap in the US follows suit…and is subsequently followed by the (still) Obama-fellating TV networks.
SKYFOX on November 12, 2009 at 12:35 PM
no one else could get away with the saved or created statement.
tomas on November 12, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Add California to the list:
aaron31 on November 12, 2009 at 1:14 PM
Ooops.
Blaise on November 12, 2009 at 1:24 PM
Yeah, but we can completely trust the FedGov with health care, even to the extent of jailing us if we fail to comply. What could go wrong?
mr.blacksheep on November 12, 2009 at 2:03 PM
“Wildly Exaggerated” is an understatement.
Let’s see the proof that zillions of jobs have been created or saved.
BottomLine5 on November 12, 2009 at 3:47 PM
How in the hell do you get jobs out of section eight dollars??? If you know the truth, you know that for every unwed mother on section eight she is supporting a male who should be working to pay his own way. Furthmore, the male is usually a drug addict, dealer or both. In essence, our tax dollars subsidize illegal drug activity…How do you get jobs saved out of that???
Nozzle on November 12, 2009 at 7:49 PM
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