Pentagon: No one told us Hasan was e-mailing the enemy
posted at 9:30 am on November 11, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
In the wake of the 9/11 attacks, we discovered that a failure to “connect the dots” left America unable to defend itself against 19 lunatics armed with boxcutters. The Fort Hood massacre had far fewer casualties, but all of them could have been avoided had the FBI informed the Pentagon that one of its high-ranking officers had a new al-Qaeda pen pal in Yemen. The Wall Street Journal reports that the Pentagon never heard from the FBI or other intelligence services that Major Nidal Hasan had begun corresponding with a radical Islamist imam in the hotbed of al-Qaeda terrorism:
The Pentagon said it was never notified by U.S. intelligence agencies that they had intercepted emails between the alleged Fort Hood shooter and an extremist imam until after last week’s bloody assaults, raising new questions about whether the government could have helped prevent the attack.
A top defense official said federal investigators didn’t tell the Pentagon they were looking into months of contacts between Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan and Anwar al-Awlaki. The imam knew three of the Sept. 11 hijackers and hailed Maj. Hasan as a “hero” after the shooting last week at Fort Hood that left 13 people dead. …
A person familiar with the matter said a Pentagon worker on a terrorism task force overseen by the Federal Bureau of Investigation was told about the intercepted emails several months ago. But members of terror task forces aren’t allowed to share such information with their agencies, unless they get permission from the FBI, which leads the task forces.
In this case, the Pentagon worker, an employee from the Defense Criminal Investigative Service, helped make the assessment that Maj. Hasan wasn’t a threat, and the FBI’s “procedures for sharing the information were never used,” said the person familiar with the matter.
This is absurd. Anwar Aulaqi gets a number of mentions in the 9/11 Commission report for his contacts with at least two of the 9/11 hijackers. Anyone communicating with Aulaqi after the attacks, especially after Aulaqi relocated to Yemen and established his Islamist jihadist website and recruitment efforts, should have been immediately reported to the Army’s chain of command, especially a high-ranking officer.
From the 9/11 Commission report, page 221:
Another potentially significant San Diego contact for Hazmi and Mihdhar was Anwar Aulaqi, an imam at the Rabat mosque. Born in New Mexico and thus a U.S. citizen, Aulaqi grew up in Yemen and studied in the United States on a Yemeni government scholarship. We do not know how or when Hazmi and Mihdhar first met Aulaqi. The operatives may even have met or at least talked to him the same day they first moved to San Diego. Hazmi and Mihdhar reportedly respected Aulaqi as a religious figure and developed a close relationship with him.33
When interviewed after 9/11, Aulaqi said he did not recognize Hazmi’s name but did identify his picture. Although Aulaqi admitted meeting with Hazmi several times, he claimed not to remember any specifics of what they discussed. He described Hazmi as a soft-spoken Saudi student who used to appear at the mosque with a companion but who did not have a large circle of friends.34
Aulaqi left San Diego in mid-2000, and by early 2001 had relocated to Virginia. As we will discuss later, Hazmi eventually showed up at Aulaqi’s mosque in Virginia, an appearance that may not have been coincidental. We have been unable to learn enough about Aulaqi’s relationship with Hazmi and Mihdhar to reach a conclusion.35
In sum, although the evidence is thin as to specific motivations, our overall impression is that soon after arriving in California, Hazmi and Mihdhar sought out and found a group of young and ideologically like-minded Muslims with roots in Yemen and Saudi Arabia, individuals mainly associated with Mohdar Abdullah and the Rabat mosque. The al Qaeda operatives lived openly in San Diego under their true names, listing Hazmi in the telephone directory. They managed to avoid attracting much attention.
And more from page 230:
At the Dar al Hijra mosque, Hazmi and Hanjour met a Jordanian named Eyad al Rababah. Rababah says he had gone to the mosque to speak to the imam, Aulaqi, about finding work. At the conclusion of services, which normally had 400 to 500 attendees, Rababah says he happened to meet Hazmi and Hanjour. They were looking for an apartment; Rababah referred them to a friend who had one to rent. Hazmi and Hanjour moved into the apartment, which was in Alexandria.75
Some FBI investigators doubt Rababah’s story. Some agents suspect that Aulaqi may have tasked Rababah to help Hazmi and Hanjour. We share that suspicion, given the remarkable coincidence of Aulaqi’s prior relationship with Hazmi. As noted above, the Commission was unable to locate and interview Aulaqi. Rababah has been deported to Jordan, having been convicted after 9/11 in a fraudulent driver’s license scheme.76
The Commission was unable to locate and interview Aulaqi, but Hasan found him without too much trouble. The Commission also makes it clear that they themselves suspected Aulaqi of an operational role in 9/11, and that counterterrorism agents shared that suspicion. This was no run-of-the-mill radical imam, but a man suspected of helping to murder almost 3,000 people in the worst terrorist attack in history.
And eight years later, no one thought it was suspicious or worthy of further investigation that a high-ranking officer in the Army was communicating with a man suspected of being one of the architects of 9/11?
There’s a failure to connect dots, and then there’s willful blindness. This appears to be the latter. Something is very, very wrong with our present counterterrorism effort if contacts between a military officer and a known radical imam in Yemen gets shrugged off like this, especially with a figure likely part of the 9/11 attacks.
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Or could it be that because of the actions and inactions of Obama, all secrets guys and gals have now gone into the PC mode and are not forwarding or coordinating for fear of future witchhunt by Obama and Co.?
And where is Homeland Security in all this?
Too many bureaucracies, too few results.
albill on November 11, 2009 at 10:15 AM
If Hasan had been found gay… Huffington Post would have declared him their patron martyr.
MeatHeadinCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:15 AM
OK, it was taking a minute to filter through the system or something.
alliebobbitt on November 11, 2009 at 10:16 AM
Rovin wants pictures.
Cindy Munford on November 11, 2009 at 10:16 AM
Via the Jawa Report, Yemeni authorities are now hunting for Anwar al-Awlaki to determine whether he has al-Qaida ties.
Buy Danish on November 11, 2009 at 10:18 AM
I thought about that, too. One overreacts. The other underreacts. That really isn’t the same as a good, balanced approach. It’s more like what we’re seeing. Chaos and lack of cooperation that keeps leading to mistakes.
I’m still leaning toward my Doc theory. They minimized it because he was “educated” and “professional.”
I think they give educated people a pass, thinking it’s all verbal. The flaw in my theory there is that the FBI is actually responsible for profiling mass murderers and knows that high education/intellect types tend to do so behind motivations over ideology and direct the action toward institutions.
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Chuck Todd on the Fort Hood Murders: “Certainly, yellow flags should have been raised—red is too harsh” (reported this morning on Morning Joe)
Rovin on November 11, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Yup.
It’s back.
Look at the difference: wanna bet all those ‘high-level’ [media highlighted] jihadi busts we’ve seen predate Teh One’s new focus on ‘what’s important’.
A new administration brings new ‘filters’.
But fear not, give’em time . . . in the end it will all be ‘lapses in the system’.
Until they find the right ‘goat’ to pin it on.
CPT. Charles on November 11, 2009 at 10:20 AM
Not in my eyes.
publiuspen on November 11, 2009 at 10:21 AM
Speaking of PC, I am growing tired of the phrase “alleged Fort Hood shooter”being used by our media. Heard it this morning on the radio, and read it again right here. Pretty sure he did it.
They keep using that word alleged.
I don’t think it means what they think it means.
loudmouth883 on November 11, 2009 at 10:21 AM
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:18 AM
They gave him a pass because they are afraid of offending the Muslims. Plain and simple.
Disturb the Universe on November 11, 2009 at 10:21 AM
I don’t understand why blaming Obama versus Bush, and the FBI versus the Army, is most important to some people. And the MSM’s fascination with second-hand PTSD, is an incredible disservice to veterans with first-hand PTSD.
Thanks Ed, for staying focused on identifying the problems that actually need fixing in order to prevent another attack.
Loxodonta on November 11, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Your smartest post ever!
AsianGirlInTights on November 11, 2009 at 10:24 AM
Now, now. Freedom of speech for all, right?
publiuspen on November 11, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Ah yes…the ol’ hot ice cream argument again.
Liberals to Bush: If you had been doing your job by spying on terrorists, 9-11 wouldn’t have happened. It’s your fault!
Bush asks for, and gets Congressional agreement on, the Patriot Act. Designed to detect (among many other powers) oversea communcations that involve known or suspected “evil-doers”, and to detect as yet unknown terror plots by monitoring for certain key words, phrases, etc…
Liberals to Bush: INVASION OF PRIVACY! GOVERNMENT INTRUSION INTO OUR PRIVATE LIVES! AAAAHHH!!
BobMbx on November 11, 2009 at 10:29 AM
The man was begging to be released from his obligations. They wouldn’t have offended him.
I suppose that he wouldn’t have liked the terms, of course. He was asking for some crazy CO status. Clearly it should have been dishonorable discharge.
But surely that could have been arranged and, at least, he’d not be given easy access to Ft. Hood. To decide to send this horrible doctor to Iraq to counsel people there after the evidence of how he argued with patients even?
That decision simply baffles me.
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:29 AM
This communication is the fault of truthers in part. I know having worked in the field that there are many truthers that work for the feds and since they believe 9/11 was inside job they don’t take threats against America from Muslim Extremists serioulsy.
theguardianii on November 11, 2009 at 10:30 AM
Boil him in pork fat.
shick on November 11, 2009 at 10:31 AM
If you go back to the point I was making, it wasn’t over whether it was legal or illegal. It was that the current method of collection gathers TOO much information, making it harder to discern what truly is or is not relevant.
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:31 AM
Maybe he was.
Johan Klaus on November 11, 2009 at 10:31 AM
It’s phony neutralism, for sure.
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:32 AM
Have any of you ever wondered why the left, including the state run media, seems always to be on the side of the terrorists? I can’t wrap my head around those kinds of thought processes. They are twisting themselves like pretzels to make the terrorist the victim, placing blame on the military and anything other than what is obviously the truth. One of the dumbest statements has to be Chris Matthews asking a guest if it is against the law to call Al Queda. But then I realize that they feel about this country the same as the terrorists – they all hate it!
silvernana on November 11, 2009 at 10:33 AM
The way the military is portrayed on tv is nothing close to what real life military is all about. I wouldn’t even use them as a comparison.
I think the FBI has a lot of explaining to do. If they were following this guy for the last 6 months and said they couldn’t find anything wrong with this guy must of been sleeping on the job. I hate this PC crap espically in the military. It doesn’t belong there.
Brat4life on November 11, 2009 at 10:33 AM
spot on Ed…
cmsinaz on November 11, 2009 at 10:34 AM
I thought that was a possibility… but then the strip club story. I’m not sure. Maybe he just wanted to be a stripper himself.
MeatHeadinCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:34 AM
It doesn’t belong anywhere.
thomasaur on November 11, 2009 at 10:36 AM
Ann, we’d love to hear that great strategy of yours for gathering just the right information. I’m sure US intelligence agencies could use your help.
AsianGirlInTights on November 11, 2009 at 10:36 AM
Watching Fox right now…an investigator told them that they didn’t pursue Hasan’s emails because of “First Amendment concerns”.
When I was in the Air Force, a guy in my squadron had some Klan literature in his room. A magazine, a letter from his brother, some other stuff. He was investigated for WEEKS. Turned his room inside out. Screened his mail. Turned out his brother actually was a member, and had written him to tell him about it. Point is, they didn’t seem too concerned with “First Amendment issues” at the time, and rightly so.
How times have changed…
uncivilized on November 11, 2009 at 10:36 AM
What I’d like to know is why is Anwar Aulaqi still breathing?
OxyCon on November 11, 2009 at 10:38 AM
CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS NOW!
What did Obama know and when did he know it!??!
His intelligence services failed us horrifically!!!
profitsbeard on November 11, 2009 at 10:39 AM
I know this is a different kind of case but you cannot release everyone from their obligations. They Army put hundreds of thousands of dollars into this guy. If other people wanted out they’d follow this idiot. Then what.
If he was hell bent on killing soilders, he would of found a way. He is a terrorist, just because you release him from his duties doesn’t mean he wouldn’t of done this. He wanted off free and clear. That wouldn’t of happend and who’s to say he still wouldn’t of done this.
Brat4life on November 11, 2009 at 10:39 AM
we are going to be PC’d to oblivion…
cmsinaz on November 11, 2009 at 10:39 AM
Because Gerald Ford made it illegal to eliminate our enemies.
thomasaur on November 11, 2009 at 10:39 AM
A pole dancer?
Johan Klaus on November 11, 2009 at 10:39 AM
Don’t they follow a host of people all the time? I’m not sure that they aren’t actually telling the truth here. They were keeping an eye on him, but nothing major was popping out. He was in contact, but no plans were being made, in other words. He was talking about radical fundamentalism, but he was not planning with anyone.
At least, that’s the impression I’m getting. I was assuming that the FBI is looking for cell activity, not lone wolf stuff.
That’s probably going to change. Individual mass murderers are, in fact, obviously as capable as groups in inflicting harm.
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:39 AM
Isn’t this fun?
Riding our nation into the stinkhole of Diversity, at the expense of Unity.
There are no winners… We’re all losers.
franksalterego on November 11, 2009 at 10:40 AM
“In the wake of the 9/11 attacks, we discovered that a failure to “connect the dots” left America unable to defend itself against 19
lunaticsjihadists armed with boxcutters.”FIFY.
awake on November 11, 2009 at 10:40 AM
All right, I’ll do this quick before the black helicopters show up and make me disappear.
It’s call Raptor. It’s a machine. It listens for certain words, phrases, etc on international communications, not domestic. That means if you call mommy in Ohio, Raptor doesn’t know you. If you dial up someone in Iran, that’s a different story.
Now, if Raptor flags a communication, it’s gets sent to a real person, kinda like pushing “0″ when you want a real customer service agent. They listen to the conversation, usually a recording. If they determine it’s innocuous, it gets sent to the bit bucket. If you say things they don’t like, boom…you go on the list.
This is the only information that is “gathered”. No other data is stored. Now, if a government agency decides to delve deeper into your activities, they then have to seek warrants and subpeonas as in any other law enforcement action. The warrantless wire taps are not really warrantless. The Patriot Act allowed the government 72 hours to obtain a “back-dated” warrant. This warrant process is performed under the approval of the Judicial Branch, with a federal judge reviewing the warrants.
Granted, the Bush Administration abused this process from time to time. That doesn’t make it worthless.
BobMbx on November 11, 2009 at 10:41 AM
Although perhaps that question should be asked eventually (of both admins), a potential investigation would need to focus on those around him that may have been aware of his desires/goals/beliefs/&c. From the initial reports to now, it seems like a lot of people did a whole lot of nothing when it came to some of the statements Hasan was saying…
MeatHeadinCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:41 AM
where is jamie gorelick?
cmsinaz on November 11, 2009 at 10:42 AM
A pole dancer?
Johan Klaus on November 11, 2009 at 10:39 AM
MeatHeadinCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Right now the FBI is going to try and cover this up. Who knows what they knew and if we will ever know. If you are in the military and contacting the enemy that is grounds for being kicked out. Period. The FBI should of told the Penatagon and this guy should be in jail. Who knows if this idiot was giving Al Queda secrets. Just cause he’s a doctor doesn’t mean he doesn’t hear things.
When my husband comes back from deployments he doesn’t even tell me on the phone for OPSEC reasons.
Him emailing Al Queda for any reason should of landed him in jail and kicked out of the military.
Brat4life on November 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM
Thanks. That makes sense. It’s still sort of icky to think of someone listening to innocuous private conversations, but your explanation of the actual machine helps put that into perspective.
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM
Read Triple Cross, the true story of Ali Mohamed who infiltrated the CIA, FBI and the Green Berets all while spouting Jihadist ideology and acting as chief of security for Osama Bin Laden.
The FBI and the Pentagon are so caught up in the PC/Dhimmi “We need to win the hearts and minds” BS that they won’t believe the truth coming straight from the Jihadist’s mouth.
Disturb the Universe on November 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM
*oops….that reply was for Bob, not Brat
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:45 AM
That’s known as the “Goldilocks Rule”.
BobMbx on November 11, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Range five hundred yards. Wind at five miles per hour, left to right. Five clicks up, three clicks to the left. One muslim terrorist dog terminated, with extreme prejudice.
Johan Klaus on November 11, 2009 at 10:47 AM
Too much room for error. This requires the personal touch.
BobMbx on November 11, 2009 at 10:48 AM
An unserious President elected by unserious and wishful voters hoping that all the bad stuff will just go magically away.
Dot to dot to dot. Connected.
Bruno Strozek on November 11, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Because we love and admire our men and women in uniform, we tend to forget that they are part of the inefficient, inflexible, slow, bureaucratic Federal government.
This horrible attack and events leading up to it are the sad proof of that.
Common Sense on November 11, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Sure they listened on calls, just like they did back during the indian wars and the civil war. both sides in both wars tapped telegraph lines tapped the lines of communications. Indians learned to tape telegraph, Round-eyes learned to read smoke signals – it is part of war. Don’t like it, move to a place safe from abuses like this, say Cuba, Russia, Iran…
All this crap that the Government has taken on over the last 60 year is just that CRAP, they have one job, protect us from enemies both foreign and domestic. Do that job well and forget all the other crap that they have no mandate to do and in most cases are forbidden to do.
rgranger on November 11, 2009 at 10:50 AM
When General Casey says that as bad as the Ft.Hood tragedy is, diversity is more important. When your superiors don’t want to hear of potential problems that are at odds with their diversity goals, people keep their mouths shut and American heroes are killed. Casey has got to go.
d1carter on November 11, 2009 at 10:51 AM
Flashback… http://michellemalkin.com/2009/01/05/the-gops-grover-norquist-problem/
The PC problem the GOP faces…
MeatHeadinCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:51 AM
“Loose lips, sink ships”.
Johan Klaus on November 11, 2009 at 10:52 AM
I will. Sounds interesting.
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:53 AM
no, he cracked ask obama
this other stuff is nonsense
No way do I heave this on Bush since the lefts efforts in defeating Bush surpassed their efforts in defeating these radicals
Obama is pretty much following Bushs lead after campaigning in a completely different tone
hes a full-of-shit piece of political garbage
As for the pigfcker murderer whos issue was fighting muslims I wonder why he doesnt consider the thousands upon thousands of muslims that he could have been fighting for who are the victims on a regular basis to the muslims he appears to be sympathetic to.
you know, the ones that the left would have no problem being slaughtered with their defeatest attitudes.
The left knowing or unknowingly supports the abhorent side.
Sonosam on November 11, 2009 at 10:53 AM
They sure do.
Brat4life on November 11, 2009 at 10:53 AM
FBI was too busy investigating fishy emails submitted to flag@whitehouse.gov
kooly on November 11, 2009 at 10:54 AM
Obama is pretty much following Bushs lead after campaigning in a completely different tone
I should add in a politically expediant way since Im not to sure he really supports liberty
Sonosam on November 11, 2009 at 10:55 AM
This issue will have the same effect as the ACORN story, the more its talked about the sooner the media will not be able to hide it for their messiah.
mmmmm mmmmm mmmmm
bluegrass on November 11, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Too bad for Ft Hood, Hasan didn’t threaten Tiller’s friends.
MeatHeadinCA on November 11, 2009 at 10:55 AM
You start by challenging the Commander-In-Chief of this suicidal folly in order to scare out the lower-level idiots, since Obama’s “handlers” will want to deflect attention away from him and throw others under the bus.
But, because everything was “Bush’s Fault” for the preceding 8 years, now everything MUST be OBAMA’S FAULT.
He wanted the job, he takes the ultimate heat.
THE SHUCK STOPS HERE.
It’s all Barack Hussein Obama’s now.
And the P.C. poison responsible for this slaughter has been promoted most vociferously by “healer” Barry.
profitsbeard on November 11, 2009 at 10:56 AM
That might not be such a bad strategy initially, but it could backfire. Further, it’s only strategical. This incompetence that we’ve seen in the intelligence community, military, and well, even Obama’s response (which he alone is responsible for), shows just how much trouble we really are in as a country. We didn’t get here because of BHO, but rather because of a culmination of years of sliding…
MeatHeadinCA on November 11, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Eric Holder killed the Black Panther voter intimidation case. Anyone want to bet he told them to stand down on this one too?
drjohn on November 11, 2009 at 11:03 AM
As you have admitted, your knowledge of these matters is very limited. Yet, you continue to post at a frequent speed.
As I started to right this, nearly 15% of the posts in this thread are from you and 25% are from you or in response to you.
Why?
And why are you focusing exclusively on problems that seem to shift the focus away from Obama’s civilian appointees and employees, and on to the Army?
Loxodonta on November 11, 2009 at 11:07 AM
She’s got the IQ of a mop bucket – her posts’ should make that clear.
dpierson on November 11, 2009 at 11:10 AM
The proof is in the pudding. the White House has all of the resurces it needs to know what is going on and is briefed everyday. We see what they did about it. absolutley fu*k*ng nothing. They don’t give a sh*t. Why is it so hard for the world to understand the truth. With the left Jack Nicholson said it best, You wouldn’t know the G D truth if it bit you on the A$$. This is what it has come to. HopeNchange by Hussain.
bluegrass on November 11, 2009 at 11:12 AM
I never doubt George Bushs efforts and sincerity when dealing with these scum
Since the left was determined to hobble all of his efforts I there is no doubt that the blood on their hands is ours , not the enemies
Just consider dead ted kennedy when the abu ghraid abuses came to light ( not a big deal in my book )
he made damn sure to inflame the situation to the max ( abu ghraid is reopened under US management )
How many soldiers did that kill for pure political posturing, that lowlife piece of shit.
We know what side the left is on and the sooner we realise it, the sooner we can vote them out of office.
Sonosam on November 11, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Folks, the FBI was not “following this guy for the last six months.” They checked him out in December ’08, and “early in 2009″ got the all-clear from an DCIS member of the JTTF in the Pentagon, and dropped it.
According to the AP:
I doubt the FBI could have taken it any further, after having been given the all-clear from the DCIS. The question remains, though, why even supposedly “innocuous” emails were allowed between a known terrorist and a Muslim Army officer.
Nichevo on November 11, 2009 at 11:15 AM
He’s a Harvard Man
ha ha ha ha ha ha LMAF
bluegrass on November 11, 2009 at 11:17 AM
After 9/11 weren’t Democrats all about ‘connecting the dots’? Looks like their version of security for the country is as good as the Bush Administration’s prior to 9/11.
Maybe we need more cops, after all, isn’t this just a police problem?
Hey Barry, congratulations, YOUR FIRST terrorist attack on US soil.
GarandFan on November 11, 2009 at 11:20 AM
there is no excuse when the subject matter is what it is
An army officer contacting, or trying to contact AQ
Since George Bush administration was attempting to intercept domestic conversations going out to hotzones, I have no doubt this would have made notice.
Since the left wanted to cripple that tool I have no doubt that they would deviantly ignore such a warning.
This could and should be used to serve as a warning how callous and disregarding our current administration is.
They are too busy trying to exponentially give us more of the same.
Sonosam on November 11, 2009 at 11:22 AM
Ill add that if this was under Bushs watch and they did succeed in removing the pig fucker from his position prior to the attack that the left would have bent over backwards to find wrongdoing in such.
The pig fucker would have played it to the hilt since that is what these slime are supposed to do which is destroy or tie up the maximum amount of resources.
Sonosam on November 11, 2009 at 11:25 AM
This reminds me of the FBI mentality before 9/11 in regards to Moussaoui. Recall it was Agent Coleen Rowley who was waving red flags all over the place in regards to Moussaoui and no one at FBI headquarters, including Robert Mueller, did anything except to cover their asses.
FBI Director Robert Mueller should have been fired then and needs to be fired now.
moonsbreath on November 11, 2009 at 11:27 AM
Okay, lieutenant colonels then. Seriously, though, I stand corrected. But my main point, that majors are not “high-ranking” officers, still stands. Especially in comparison with your Marine colonel relative.
bgoldman on November 11, 2009 at 11:29 AM
I just type fast and am having my coffee and got interested in this thread.
LOL*
No nefarious motive here.
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Anna, you can expect no privacy in any data that you send across our borders. The courts (including the Court) have (rather wisely) repeatedly ruled in favor of our government on this one. That was also the case for the EFF’s suit. The Government has carte blanc to examine our mail, our internet transmissions, our telephone calls, our laptops, our suitcases and bags, without warrant, when they cross our borders on the way to or from a foreign country. Data or telephony which has both endpoints within our country are protected, but everything else isn’t. Get used to it even if the EFF can’t bring itself to — it’s been that way for more than two hundred years.
unclesmrgol on November 11, 2009 at 11:40 AM
A Major, especially one in the Medical Corp, is not at all a high-ranking officer and the Army can’t pass the buck to the FBI on this one.
MB4 on November 11, 2009 at 11:42 AM
It will be interesting to see, once these emails come out, whether a rational person would conclude the army major was merely conducting “research.”
Stray thoughts: what language did Hasan use to contact his AQ pal and were investigators relying on a translation when they made the “all clear” determination? And I’m still wondering (and I notice Ralph Peters is wondering also) where all of Hasan’s money was going. Did he, as his family has claimed, pay back the government for the cost of his schooling? Was he sending any of it out of the country?
Infidoll on November 11, 2009 at 11:42 AM
What the holy hell is going on?
We still have agencies not talking to each other. We still have FBI not acting on intelligence. We still have loons shooting up our country.
This is a death wish.
PattyJ on November 11, 2009 at 11:48 AM
I didn’t say you have a nefarious motive. But on certain threads, you do seem to shift the subject in a certain direction in a huge percentage of the thread’s posts at the beginning of the thread, or at important places along the way.
It’s an interesting pattern of posting. I’d call it politically motivated. If political means the same as nefarious, then perhaps you are correct.
Loxodonta on November 11, 2009 at 11:48 AM
Well, at least the filthy Patriot Act (Orwellian much?) succeeded in denying us all OTC cold medicines!
Rae on November 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Posting in the wrong thread.
Loxodonta on November 11, 2009 at 12:00 PM
OK. I’ll consider that. But I’d also suggest back to watch the nanny attitude.
I do enjoy your posts, however. Always read them. You’re not one I skip over.
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 12:03 PM
Anyone who has worked for a governmental agency at any level recognizes that when a new administration takes over they not only bring in their own people for the leadership positions but they also change the organizational structure. It seems pretty obvious to me that the media is intentionally not raising the question of how far up the chain of command did the information go on the side of the FBI. There’s a lot of finger pointing going on about the FBI not talking to the Pentagon without acknowledging that the FBI Director reports to the Deputy AG in the Justice Dept. And that Deputy reports to AG Holder, who calls the shots. So I suspect that there is no direct line of communication between the FBI and Pentagon and that control of communication is reflected in this statement:
Some looking back at the changes that have been made in areas of responsibility between the FBI, Pentagon and CIA in the last year by the Obama administration might shed some light on why the dots weren’t even on the same page. Does the FBI Director still maintain that authority or has that authority been pushed up to the AG’s Office?
I’m not familiar with the Pentagon’s structure, but it seems strange to me that this information was presented to a ‘worker’ from the Criminal Investigation Service which I assume is a section within the Pentagon that conducts internal investigation of military members potentially engaged in criminal activity. Doesn’t that sound like someone on the Task Force had already made the determination that Hasan’s emails didn’t constitute criminal activity and that is what was presented as fact to the Pentagon ‘worker’. Seems to me the …helped make the assessment that Maj. Hasan wasn’t a threat… insinuates that the information was treated as though it was just a routine matter. I sure hope someone is assessing the players and procedures within that task force.
Texas Gal on November 11, 2009 at 12:04 PM
AnninCA.True liberals do not keep an open mind!
sandee on November 11, 2009 at 12:05 PM
For those who believe simply intercepting private citizen communications is a crime, or ought to be illegal, I have one question. If you disagree with the US government intercepting your communications, how do you feel about the foreign governments who do the same to everything on our air waves? Your communications are out there for ALL to see, including al Qaeda, Germany, England, Israel, Russia, Iran, North Korea, CHINA!!!! Why is our government supposed to be the only one not allowed to intercept them if our enemies routinely listen in?
Additionally, you routinely allow credit card companies and commercial entities to use the information you put in public spaces (job resumes with your phone numbers, addresses, credit card buying habits, etc…) to contact you or sell you something, thus invading your private space. Why do you deny the US government the ability to determine whether you are a terrorist by screening you out of that category?
Our government intercepts these communications and puts them all in a computer file (to use an analogy, a bucket) where a computer (not a person) screens out the ones that have no intelligence value (i.e. no one talks about bombs or killing or Islam, or other codewords which are likely to be used in terrorist communications, even terrorist codewords that we know about). This means 99.9% of the communications in America are screened out of the bucket. Now assume another computer program looks in the bucket to see if there is a foreign connection on the other end of the communication. If there isn’t, then these comms are also dropped from interest. That screens out 90% of what is left in the bucket (only a thimbleful of communications to look at now). That leaves only foreign connected communications which exhibit some kind of “flag” that causes our government intel agencies to become interested in you.
Until they do become interested in you, no person really looks at your communications. So no possibility of government interaction or interest in your illicit love life or underhanded business dealings exists for most of us.
Lets examine what happens after you find your comms in the bucket remainder, though. Now that you’ve piqued the government’s interest by having your communications highlighted by a computer, some person (just like the DoD employee on the FBIs task force) has to look at a transcript of the conversation and see whether it might bear further watching. Did you use the al Qaeda codeword for bomb by mistake? (Maybe it is simply some word we all use, like “bird”, this week. Who knows?) Something in your comms got their interest, whether it was talking to your neighbor on his trip to Iran, or use of some silly phrase.
This person has to make a judgment call. He/she will simply judge whether to ask a court to allow further surveillance of your comms and then watch your comms for a while to determine whether you are doing something wrong or not. They don’t care if you are stealing from your boss or cheating on your wife/husband. They only care if you are conducting some kind of terrorist activity.
Now you have been screened IN by a court, after the first person involved judges there may be something of interest in your comms. If after awhile, they judge you to be innocent, or not worth pursuing because you are just talking to your lover, then they stop watching your comms until you use another codeword again. Patterns are also important here. The more times you show up, the more attention you get.
There are only 14,000 FBI agents in the Agency. There are only 20,000 to 40,000 intel folks in the entire country. Most of those people don’t look at communications. (Only 20% of the FBI even works on terrorism cases, and less than 40% of the intel folks look at comms. They don’t have time to analyze your marriage or provide a divorce attorney, or white collar crime DA with info on whether you are violating commercial patents or screwing your secretary.) These folks are too overworked to care about anything but national security. And to top that off, they probably have to have the transcripts translated from something other than English to even care about whether this is terrorist comms.
Bottom line: The government deserves the same capabilities as your credit card company to gather every bit of communications you make. They DON’T have the right to use it against you unless there is evidence of a terrorist criminal act in the works, and that includes domestic crimes not terrorist in nature, because the lawyers will apply the domestic spying label and label the comms inadmissible as evidence under the law. All the concerns about the Patriot Act and domestic spying are far overblown and stupid once logic is applied.
Now, if President Obama triples the size of the spy agencies and the Dept of Justice, and gives them permission to go after domestic crimes, then I’d say we all have to worry. Because everyone does something illegal somewhere more than once in their life. Until you allow your Congresscritters to vote that way, feel free to laugh at liberals who worry about domestic spying.
Subsunk
Subsunk on November 11, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Let’s address the discharge question then.
The United States military paid over $500,000 for Dr. Hasan’s education. He owed the country a minimum of 78 years and more likely 12-17 yrs of service for his education. Depends on the contract obligation, but 8 yrs is the minimum for normal soldiers, and docs have to agree to do their internships before their 8 yrs starts, so it could be 17 yrs depending on his specialty. Someone else could explain. As a US citizen I want that investment repaid. Dr. Hasan is not likely to have $500,000 laying around, is he? So he has to serve the time. And I don’t want him released.
We don’t release or discharge folks in the military who claim they are gay either! So many guys claim they are gay to get out of service it makes your head swim. Faking this is very common. The only way you can be discharged for being gay is to PROVE it by committing some homosexual act where you can be found by your peers or superiors in the act, or providing photographic evidence of the same. The canard that the US military discriminates against gays is ridiculous. We don’t discharge folks for having affairs either although that is an offense by the UCMJ because they signed a contract and agreed to do the service.
THAT is what matters to military folks. That some goldbrick can’t use an excuse to get out of their duty just because they don’t like it, or it is too hard now.
So could he have simply been changed to “Conscientious Objector” and been given some other duties?
What do folks think we do with Conscientious Objectors? They are given duties off the battlefield, or in the combatant arms, consistent with their religious objections. For instance, if a soldier is an infantryman with Combat LifeSaver skills, he may be changed from rifleman to corpsman. Sure he is still on the battlefield, but he doesn’t carry a weapon and is given semi-protected status (although Muslim terrorists will torture and behead him live on tv just for being an infidel because they don’t follow the Geneva Conventions, and it is their religious duty to make terrorist barbarians of themselves anyway).
So say he doesn’t want to be on the battlefield? We try to find ways for them to serve out their time in the rear…..where Dr. Hasan was already. He had a noncombat job. He was in zero danger to his soul of ever having to pick up an M-16 and defend himself. He would have supported the combat efforts of the troops only by listening to their problems and helping them keep from killing themselves over the loss of their buddies. Sounds pretty noncombat related to me. Humanitarian, even! He was already doing duties where the other Conscientious Objectors would be doing duties anyway. In the hospital!
Now let’s address his radicalization and how that is inconsistent with further service.
First, we don’t dishonorably discharge folks unless they have committed some major infraction. Like a real crime. Rape, Murder, Armed Robbery, etc…. really serious crimes. Dishonorable Discharges can only come from Courts Martial. Something serious needs to have happened. We have to have a military trial, and guilt needs to be assessed in those cases. Since MAJ Hasan had not done any of those things yet, no discharge due to conduct was possible.
OK, so why the bad fitness reports? Doctors are evaluated on their ability to follow military rules, AND their professional capabilities. Was he a decent psychiatrist? His low marks were apparently related to his bedside manner, some use of alcohol (I believe), and possibly his proselytizing incompatible with military regulations. A bad fitness report, however, is not grounds for dismissal from service. He apparently didn’t sexually harass anyone (something that ruins far more careers than simply saying you would support a suicide bombing at Walmart), or have an affair with his subordinates (ditto), or be accused (not convicted, just accused) of sexually assaulting a fellow soldier or a child (triple ditto). Those accusations remove the accused from his normal deployable status until the charges are substantiated, investigated and he is charged or the charges are dismissed.
Also doctors in the service don’t compete at the same level as line officers (Infantry, Artillery, Aviation, etc…) They are evaluated against other doctors. They are promoted based on how many doctors of higher rank we need in the military. The promotion rate for doctors from Captain (where most doctors start their Army careers, by the way) to Major is near 100%. You have to really screw up (shag the COs wife, kill someone thru drunk driving, or completely disobey Army regs in some odious fashion, I can’t even think of any serious enough) to keep you from promotion to Major. It is just the way things are in the Army. Doctors start out higher rank because they do all their Lieutenant time in school, and are Captains usually when they become full doctors.
And MAJ Hasan was probably a radical, but you don’t get that from one outburst (unless it is with a semiautomatic handgun, which I think we’ve established makes him a radical Islamist). He should have been counseled by his superiors, and given plenty of supervision, continuing to establish a pattern of incompatibility with the military over years. That didn’t happen.
I am positive that Political Correctness had much to do with his ability to slip by on most of these radicalization issues. But the Army is also a reflection of our culture today. Our recruits come from the same kids who are taught by Big Bird and by liberal teachers that discrimination in any form is wrong. Try to find someone in public today who will stand up against their Muslim neighbor who puts photos of our soldiers being blown up in Iraq in their HUMMVWs, and speak out about radical proselytizing in their neighborhood mosque. Those folks are routinely chastised in the press as crazies, routinely smeared on TV by our political leadership as fascists and right wing extremists. Why would a 28 yr old in today’s Army speak up against a Major who espoused beheading infidels in a lecture when he has been trained to respect the Major’s rank, taught that it is wrong to criticize another faith, however immoral that faith is, and educated that you will be called racist if you rock the supposedly religious doctrinal boat by calling a radical what he is.
The Army has gone too far into Political Correctness today, that is true. But they are no different than the rest of every single one of us who refuses to call out the Liars in the press and our government when they claim Islam is a peaceful religion, and the consequences of killing innocent Muslims in our attacks against the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan is far greater than the loss of a single American Soldiers life on the ground. We have valued our own lives too cheaply for the country, but far too highly for the press and liberals and terror apologists all over the world.
Hope this answers some questions.
Subsunk
Subsunk on November 11, 2009 at 12:17 PM
Thanks, nanny Subsunk!
Please babysit here any time you can.
Loxodonta on November 11, 2009 at 12:19 PM
Really interesting. It’s amazing that sex with one’s superior officer’s mate is more important than arguing with patients suffering from PTSD that the war is wrong.
Strange value system, there.
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 12:23 PM
Not so interesting. That really wasn’t the gist of my point, anyway.
It was a quantity versus quality approach to intelligence gathering.
AnninCA on November 11, 2009 at 12:25 PM
I agree our folks are overloaded and miss too much that’s important. How would you suggest we fix that? Since intel collection and terrorism fighting isn’t a priority in Congress, or the administration, currently? Not likely to be more folks hired.
And I’m not sure I would like more folks applied to prosecution anyway. District Attorneys are notoriously political and use their folks to prosecute what they want instead of what they should. I think we’d see more prosecutions of Tea Partiers than Terrorists, Ann.
Subsunk
Subsunk on November 11, 2009 at 12:34 PM
So is the value system that says 20 Taliban can hide in a Muslim widow’s hut, shoot at American troops from there, and the press only reports on how she and her innocent children were killed by US bombing. The value system of the press in what it reports is totally out of whack with the citizenry of this country. Fix that, and you would likely not have to worry about Muslims getting the upper hand in any conflict whatsoever.
Subsunk
Subsunk on November 11, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Hi Ann, you still haven’t told us your great strategy for gathering just the right intelligence. I’m holding my breath – please hurry!
AsianGirlInTights on November 11, 2009 at 12:37 PM
What has Jamie Gorelick been doing the last couple of years? anyone?
james23 on November 11, 2009 at 12:39 PM
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