Who will get jurisdiction to try Hasan?

posted at 2:20 pm on November 9, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The answer to this question depends on how authorities see the murder of 13 people and wounding of dozens more on the Fort Hood military base last week.  If Nidal Hasan committed a mass murder, then the military would have jurisdiction.  However, if the Obama administration calls it a terrorist attack, then Johanna Neuman of the Los Angeles Times says that the Department of Justice might have overriding jurisdiction:

The question now: Who will prosecute him?

Tom Kenniff, a former Army JAG officer and Iraq war veteran who served in Tikrit, said Friday he thought the judge advocate general’s office on Ft. Hood will have exclusive jurisdiction over this case. “It’s possible he could also be charged by the Feds with committing an act of terrorism, but my guess is the Army will get first crack at him,” he said in an online chat for the Washington Post.

But Sunday, Connecticut Independent Joe Lieberman said the Homeland Security Committee he chairs will investigate whether federal officials missed any red flags that Hasan had become a terrorist threat. …

A finding of terrorism could trigger a decision by the Obama administration to take the case to federal court, and an admission that Hasan’s alleged action was the first act of terrorism on American soil since Sept. 11.

For those who see this as a terrorist act and want an execution, a military prosecution would probably prove less than satisfactory.  The military is usually reluctant to impose the death penalty, although that option is open to prosecutors.  They have not actually executed anyone for murder since 1961, although to be fair, they have not had this set of circumstances occur in that period, either.

However, the Obama administration may not be terribly anxious to declare this a terrorist attack, either.  With information leaking all over the place about red flags popping up and a lack of any action on them, declaring this a terrorist attack would focus a lot more attention on why the Obama administration failed to stop it.  Lieberman may demand a Congressional investigation, but a probe by this Congress would be unlikely to attack Barack Obama or his DoJ.  Besides, with the revelation about the FBI’s knowledge of Hasan’s attempts to contact al-Qaeda over the last few months, a Justice prosecution could become suspect.

For that matter, this also demonstrates the problem with terms like “terrorism” — and “hate crimes”.  The murder of 13 people and the wounding of dozens of others should be serious enough to carry with it the most severe penalties.  What would be gained by adding terrorism charges that don’t already exist with mass murder?  The motivation of Hasan may have some import for policy and security issues, but for a trial, it just muddies what are now crystal-clear waters.

In the end, I’d expect this to remain in the jurisdiction of the military.  It would cause less disruption, create fewer questions, and would almost certainly get expedited over a DoJ process.

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Not what is there not to understand here?

pilamaye on November 9, 2009 at 7:38 PM

But but ..what about diversity ?
And yes, Bush is resposible for this

macncheez on November 9, 2009 at 7:41 PM

Yeah, Fox News just said he will be charged in military court. So that means he won’t get the death penalty.

SoulGlo on November 9, 2009 at 7:41 PM

Yeah, Fox News just said he will be charged in military court. So that means he won’t get the death penalty.

SoulGlo on November 9, 2009 at 7:41 PM

Uh, why? Military has people on death row right now…. it just takes a President with Cojones to sign the execution docs…

Romeo13 on November 9, 2009 at 7:43 PM

it just takes a President with Cojones to sign the execution docs…

Romeo13 on November 9, 2009 at 7:43 PM

No Cojones inside Mom jeans

macncheez on November 9, 2009 at 7:44 PM

Our diversity, not only in our Army, but in our country, is a strength. And as horrific as this tragedy was, if our diversity becomes a casualty, I think that’s worse.
- General Casey

He’s right about this one thing. Our diversity is a strength and I witnessed this time and again while I was deployed in the Navy during the Afghan and Iraq wars.

We often stopped a lot of “mono-ethnic” shipping in the Gulf – in order to investigate their cargo. The ships were mono-ethnic because multiple elasticities on these middle eastern ships would have killed each other. Sometimes you’d find maybe two races on a ship – and it’d be Arabs in charge with something like Bangladeshi’s or Paki’s as basically slave labor. Maybe some Filipinos. Whatever it was there was definitely a “senior” / “subordinate” caste arrangement.

Of course our ships were very diverse. If we stopped an Indian ship and no one on that ship spoke English – we had someone (who was just a normal part of our crew) who could speak Hindi. Iranians? Yeah – we could talk to them because we had people who spoke Farsi.

I know most Americans don’t see this to the extent we saw it in the military – there’s a lot of antagonistic stuff that goes on between the races here in the U.S. (though I maintain it’s not as bad as other countries). But still – if you saw what I saw – you would realize that we CAN get along – and we are stronger for our diversity.

HondaV65 on November 9, 2009 at 7:48 PM

I remember a western I saw many years ago. I think it had Walter Brennan as Judge Roy Bean and Gary Cooper as a hapless cowboy. One line was something like this: “We’ll give ‘im a fair trial, then we’ll hang ‘im.”

Someody get a rope.

Pelayo on November 9, 2009 at 7:57 PM

If Obama says this is a terrorist act–will the Man-Shot soldiers of the Man Caused Disaster win the Purple Heart Medal?

chickasaw42 on November 9, 2009 at 8:00 PM

Well … I’m beginning to think now that he’ll be tried, found guilty, and make history when he’s put to death.

The more we hear on this whole incident – the more we find that people screwed up. A scapegoat is needed and good ole’ Hassan is the opportune target to be one.

I think in the end – the public outrage will be so heavy that something strong will have to happen and that means Mr. Hassan will lose his head.

As it should be.

HondaV65 on November 9, 2009 at 8:00 PM

Maybe there is hope.

Investigative officials say the Army psychiatrist accused of the Fort Hood massacre will be charged by the U.S. military rather than in a civilian court.

Schadenfreude on November 9, 2009 at 8:07 PM

MarkTheGreat on November 9, 2009 at 5:23 PM

YOU should talk..did you or did you not call Milwife88 “paranoid”. Jesus. Get off your high horse MTG.

Annietxgrl on November 9, 2009 at 8:19 PM

Hasan deserves the firing squad. Relatives of the dead should get to take a shot.

BottomLine5 on November 9, 2009 at 8:23 PM

Misdemeanors, and maybe some felonies, but I have never heard of the military ceding jurisdiction of murder of fellow servicemen or servicewomen that occurred on a military base.

Back in the early 80′s an airman killed his also AF member wife in quarters on the Academy, and dumped her body in the Garden of the Gods . For whatever reason, the Academy offered the El Paso county DA first crack at him, which he turned down. I was in Colorado on a ski trip a few years later when the anchor person on the news announced that the court martial had sentenced him to death. Guy seemed shocked that the death penalty was available.

PKO Strany on November 9, 2009 at 8:24 PM

it just takes a President with Cojones to sign the execution docs…

Romeo13 on November 9, 2009 at 7:43 PM

No Cojones inside Mom jeans

macncheez on November 9, 2009 at 7:44 PM

Don’t worry. By the time appeals are exhausted, we WILL have a NEW president!

Freddy on November 9, 2009 at 8:34 PM

If he gets the death penalty it will just make al quaida mad. So Barry will pardon him.

jpmn on November 9, 2009 at 8:43 PM

Not quite the same scale Ed but those of us that live near Bragg remember Kreutzer.

Dawnsblood on November 9, 2009 at 9:05 PM

Obama should pardon him. Then we can just impeach him and be done with it.

Jim Treacher on November 9, 2009 at 5:01 PM

I like the way you think.

Blacksmith8 on November 9, 2009 at 9:10 PM

He’s nothing but a low-down, double-dealing, backstabbing, larcenous perverted worm! Hanging’s too good for him. Burning’s too good for him! He should be torn into little bitsy pieces and buried alive!

So sayeth Hanover Fiste, so sayeth we all!

john1schn on November 9, 2009 at 9:37 PM

Hassan does not deserve the firing squad. He deserves the squalid ignominy of the noose. He should be hanged and, if it can possibly be arranged, he should be buried in pig manure.

njcommuter on November 9, 2009 at 9:38 PM

to think that this piece of human waste is even sucking down oxygen in my city makes me want to wretch.

john1schn on November 9, 2009 at 9:39 PM

There will be polls as nauseum on whether this monster should get the death penalty, and 90% or more of those polled will answer yes.

Completely meaningless!

With a radical left wing muslim precendent in the White House, I’d say the odds of this guy getting the death penalty are absolutely -0-.

Remember, -0- divided by -0- is infinity. And when the dust clears, that’s what Nadal Hasan will be driving, an Infiniti, no?

Sweet_Thang on November 9, 2009 at 10:10 PM

Terrorists:

Hang’em high until they die.

Wingnut on November 9, 2009 at 10:24 PM

With a radical left wing muslim precendent in the White House, I’d say the odds of this guy getting the death penalty are absolutely -0-.

Sweet_Thang on November 9, 2009 at 10:10 PM

Tool. He is a Christian and hardly a radical.

The guy will certainly go before a military court as he should. The crimes were committed by a US officer on a US base against DoD personnel. It’s a no brainer and I have not seen any argument why he would be tried any other way. He will be convicted and executed.

lexhamfox on November 9, 2009 at 10:56 PM

Our diversity, not only in our Army, but in our country, is a strength. And as horrific as this tragedy was, if our diversity becomes a casualty, I think that’s worse.
- General Casey

GEN Casey is right. Diversity in the military is a strength, however, the fundamental thing is that you put your diversity down and accept the “universal” meme that we have a Constitution, a country, and those things need protecting by people with guns. Moreover, we take an oath to protect those things and it is when the diversity gets put ahead of the country and our duty to it, that both will suffer.

ted c on November 9, 2009 at 10:59 PM

Can we get this mooned-face terrorist off the front page? Sheesh. I am the only one tired of seeing it?

Pants Wearer on November 9, 2009 at 11:03 PM

ted c on November 9, 2009 at 10:59 PM

Precisely.

I’m certain those who are Americans first and “diverse” second would have had no problem with Hasan being investigated fully when his unacceptable behavior (such as trying to convert patients to Islam and attempting to contact AQ) first became apparent.

It is the PC “champions of diversity” — the prime example being Osama Obama — whose moral cowardice allows disgraceful events such as the Ft Hood shootings to happen.

Assigning good intentions to despicable acts (the old “I don’t rush to judgment” bit) to protect the despicable is nothing more than enabling treasonous behavior, and should be treated accordingly.

MrScribbler on November 9, 2009 at 11:07 PM

Not sure if anyone figured this out, but I just realized tonight why liberals (and their media allies) are so desperate to deny that Hasan is a Jihadist. It seems now that it is beyond question that Hasan committed an act of Muslim terror, yet so many are still insisting this isn’t the case (though they offer no logical alternative motivation)

Anyway, it boils down to 9/11. How? Because Bush kept us safe after the 9/11 attacks (which, btw, were planned under Clinton…. but let’s not get bogged down about his intel/enforcement wall).

The point is, everyone said the next Muslim terror attack was only a question of “when”, not if… yet it never happened under Bush, while dozens of plots were disrupted, and arrests made.

Now, less than 10 months in to the Obama administration, a Muslim jihadist has launched a successful attack.

I’m not blaming Obama for this (he wasn’t the one who ignored the warning signs), but I believe this explains the left’s obsession with being in denial about Hasan’s motivations (I mean beyond normal liberal PC idiocy, of course.)

RightWinged on November 9, 2009 at 11:15 PM

They won’t execute him. That would hurt the diversity of the military. There would be one less Muslim. The diversity of the military is what is most important remember?

Rocks on November 9, 2009 at 11:41 PM

Uh, why? Military has people on death row right now…. it just takes a President with Cojones to sign the execution docs…

Romeo13 on November 9, 2009 at 7:43 PM

Under the circumastances that should read “American Cojones”. I don’t think that Obama has those nor do I think he would sign the death penalty for a Muslim. Say what you like, Islam is his first and native religion, and still seems to be…favored by him.

Franklyn on November 10, 2009 at 12:47 AM

They won’t execute him. That would hurt the diversity of the military. There would be one less Muslim. The diversity of the military is what is most important remember?

Rocks on November 9, 2009 at 11:41 PM

They will execute him if he is found guilty in a military court. That is pretty certain.

The notion that this guy was somehow given special treatment because he is a Muslim doesn’t stand up. He wanted very badly to leave the Army. According to multiple sources he hired a lawyer and even offered to pay back tuition costs because he was desperate to get out. That would indicate that the military decided not to take into account his wishes and that he did not join the military or remain in the military in order to carry out an attack. I imagine that, and the lack of any co-conspirators, will be why this will not get defined as a terror attack.

There is of course no excuse for what he did and he will very likely (and quite rightly) be executed. Not sure if it is better that he lives so we can hear his feeble excuses …or that he just died at the scene so we could save on the medical care to keep him alive for trial and execution.

lexhamfox on November 10, 2009 at 12:48 AM

Terrorists:

Hang’em high until they die.

Wingnut on November 9, 2009 at 10:24 PM

Again. Best to let the state of Texas handle this one.

bigjack on November 10, 2009 at 12:48 AM

The question now: Who will prosecute him?

Military Tribunal

Or dropped from a plane without a Parachute over mecca

Kini on November 10, 2009 at 1:01 AM

Considering the fact that 99.9% of all military conflicts are against Islamists, should Muslims be allowed into our military? Seriously.

Connie on November 10, 2009 at 1:17 AM

Not sure if this was said but It will probably fall to the military to try him over the soldier’s murders and Texas will try him over the police officer’s murder.

Texas will hang him (and watch it be a hanging and not the electic chair or lethal injection.)

So the military trial will be moot

- The Cat

MirCat on November 10, 2009 at 2:16 AM

Uh, why? Military has people on death row right now…. it just takes a President with Cojones to sign the execution docs…

Romeo13 on November 9, 2009 at 7:43 PM

And the last time the military executed anyone was in 1961– a private…for rape and murder. So, good luck with that…given our current CINC.

Fed45 on November 10, 2009 at 2:29 AM

Considering the fact that 99.9% of all military conflicts are against Islamists, should Muslims be allowed into our military? Seriously.

Connie on November 10, 2009 at 1:17 AM

Well, in addition to Lincoln, Kennedy, and the Messiah, Barry sees himself as the next FDR. And look how he handled Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor. If Barry wants an FDR like legacy…..why not?

Fed45 on November 10, 2009 at 2:31 AM

Finally, my 2c worth. Execution by a firing squad of all female soldiers, with hollow-point bullets filled with pork fat.

SteelGuy on November 10, 2009 at 4:02 AM

He was dumb enough to kill people in Texas. I think he will get the death penalty one way or another.

bitsy on November 10, 2009 at 4:20 AM

MirCat on November 10, 2009 at 2:16 AM

Does TX hang people? I thought it only does leathal injection? Although there is a lot of controversy about that these days. Apparently if the executioner doesn’t get the drug cocktail just right, the convict can be paralyzed but not anesthesized (spelling?) and can feel a lot of pain.

bitsy on November 10, 2009 at 4:27 AM

The jurisdiction is federal because the acts took place on federal land, Ft. Hood. It is also within the state of Texas, so the feds could waive jurisdiction to state authorities, but it would be an immense act of cowardice for the DOJ to do that. (The military could also prosecute him since he was in the Army)

Either way, the death penalty is on the table.

seanrobins on November 10, 2009 at 6:51 AM

Send him to Gitmo! He can socialize with his heroes. Life will be a lot different living within the confines of the real deal. No freedom, a strict agenda without the opportunity of distraction from the required tenants.

What the hell ever happened to the consequences for TREASON? And I don’t want to hear that 1st Amendment argument!

hopefloats on November 10, 2009 at 6:54 AM

bitsy on November 10, 2009 at 4:27 AM

No Texas doesn’t hang people. I’m just saying this guy might be the exception.

- The Cat

MirCat on November 10, 2009 at 6:54 AM

“Finally, my 2c worth. Execution by a firing squad of all female soldiers, with hollow-point bullets filled with pork fat.”
SteelGuy on November 10, 2009 at 4:02 AM

Well said!

hopefloats on November 10, 2009 at 6:55 AM

YOU should talk..did you or did you not call Milwife88 “paranoid”. Jesus. Get off your high horse MTG.

Annietxgrl on November 9, 2009 at 8:19 PM

What would you call someone who declares, with no evidence whatsoever, that people who disagree with her, hate her because of her military connections.

That is the definition of paranoid.

MarkTheGreat on November 10, 2009 at 8:06 AM

How many times are you going to prove that you ara an idiot in this thread? Once was enough.

Blake on November 9, 2009 at 5:47 PM

You still trying to prove that the definition of idiot is disagree with Blake?

MarkTheGreat on November 10, 2009 at 8:10 AM

Tom Kenniff, a former Army JAG officer and Iraq war veteran who served in Tikrit, said Friday he thought the judge advocate general’s office on Ft. Hood will have exclusive jurisdiction over this case. “It’s possible he could also be charged by the Feds with committing an act of terrorism, but my guess is the Army will get first crack at him,” he said in an online chat for the Washington Post.

It’s The Manual for Courts-Martial (MCM) that’s important.

(d) Exclusive and nonexclusive jurisdiction.
(1) Courts-martial have exclusive jurisdiction of
purely military offenses.

(2) An act or omission which violates both the
code and local criminal law, foreign or domestic,
may be tried by a court-martial, or by a proper
civilian tribunal, foreign or domestic, or, subject to
R.C.M. 907(b)(2)(C) and regulations of the Secretary
concerned, by both.

(3) Where an act or omission is subject to trial by
court-martial and by one or more civil tribunals,
foreign or domestic, the determination which nation,
state, or agency will exercise jurisdiction is a matter
for the nations, states, and agencies concerned, and
is not a right of the suspect or accused.

Discussion
In the case of an act or omission which violates the code and a
criminal law of a State, the United States, or both, the determination
which agency shall exercise jurisdiction should normally be
made through consultation or prior agreement between appropriate
military officials (ordinarily the staff judge advocate) and
appropriate civilian authorities (United States Attorney, or equivalent).
See also Memorandum of Understanding Between Departments
of Justice and Defense Relating to the Investigation and
Prosecution of Crimes Over Which the Two Departments Have
Concurrent Jurisdiction at Appendix 3.

BDU-33 on November 10, 2009 at 8:50 AM

No, our strength is not in our diversity. Our strength is in our freedom and our resolve to remain so. Diversity and tolerance is an outgrowth of that strength, not the other way around.

SKYFOX on November 10, 2009 at 11:11 AM

I’ve mentioned this before but this is a military crime, including the murder of the civilian who is a military employee. Most military installations use a sliding scale of the offense to determine if the crime is a military crime or a civilian.

A G.I.s rapes a civilian off base; the locals get him. If he rapes the same girl on base; toss up, they’ll negotiate the jurisdiction.
In this event a military perpetrator is accused of murdering military personnel and military employee on a military installation; Hasan goes to trial by Courts Martial and will become the tenth person on Leavenworth’s death row.

I doubt he will ever be executed, certainly not before the other nine on the row first.

I suspect the only way he would actually face execution is if he’s tried by the Feds for terrorism, something I just don’t think is on the cards.

E9RET on November 10, 2009 at 11:28 AM

Watching the memorial service, I’ve just decided that execution by firing squad is a better end than this cocksucker deserves.

How ’bout we go by sharia law and stone him to death.

Cylor on November 10, 2009 at 2:00 PM

If he is left alive, he become a icon and inspiration to future Jihadists.

If he is shot or hanged, he becomes a shaheed.

Being shot or hanged is a noble death for a mujahid.

Therefore I suggest that he is shot by gun-toting bikini babes, and before he dies force him to state that he’s converted to Hinduism.

uptight on November 10, 2009 at 2:04 PM

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