AP: Public option is dead

posted at 2:55 pm on November 9, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Nancy Pelosi may have been all smiles on Saturday, but the difficulties encountered in her full-court press on the ObamaCare bill will only get worse, the AP reports this morning.  The AP declares the public option dead, thanks to skeptical Democrats, and Joe Lieberman pledges to stop the bill from coming to the floor with one included.  The LA Times concurs:

House approval of legislation Saturday — even if Democrats can move it no further — was an accomplishment that has eluded presidents for decades. But the close vote and the exertions it took to secure a majority were laden with warning signs as the issue moves to the Senate.

Even though the House is a bastion of liberalism, the healthcare overhaul was a tougher sell than expected and the bill turned out to be more conservative in its price tag, more limited in the scope of its government-run insurance option and tighter in its restrictions on abortion funding than many Democrats had hoped.

Moreover, the narrow victory — 220 to 215 in a chamber where Democrats hold 258 seats — was unsettling for liberals because moderate Democrats have a louder voice in the Senate and Republicans have more stalling power.

What is more, the political climate has become more challenging for progressivism than it was when Obama’s agenda for change was launched in his 2008 presidential campaign and ratified with his resounding election one year ago.

What changed?  The rise of unemployment to 10.2% has certainly dashed a lot of cold water on big-spending plans like ObamaCare and cap-and-trade.  The idea that the elections presented a mandate for progressivism is questionable, anyway; Barack Obama hardly campaigned in the general election as a progressive, presenting himself instead as a post-partisan, pragmatic moderate.  Only after he took office did he allow Nancy Pelosi to run away with his domestic agenda to the radical extent she did.

Even Democrats are balking, as Lieberman’s ultimatum demonstrates:

But Sen. Joe Lieberman wasted no time in saying he can’t support the public insurance plan in the House bill.

If a government plan is part of the deal, “as a matter of conscience, I will not allow this bill to come to a final vote,” said Sen. Joe Lieberman, the Connecticut independent whose vote Democrats need to overcome GOP filibusters.

“The House bill is dead on arrival in the Senate,” Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said.

Democrats did not line up to challenge him. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has yet to schedule floor debate and hinted last week that senators may not be able to finish health care this year.

The Democrats can’t afford to pull a conference committee switcheroo here, either.  If the Senate passes a bill without a public option and a conference committee puts it back in (while stripping the Stupak amendment), it will get filibustered with the assistance of Lieberman and perhaps a handful of red-state Democrats.  That will be especially true if the conference report comes back in 2010, an election year in which Blanche Lincoln (D-AR) and others will have to explain themselves to center-right voters.

But what happens if a conference report comes back without a public option, and with the Stupak amendment intact?  Pelosi won’t have enough votes to support it in the House, either.  What can’t pass the House is the only option to pass the Senate, and vice versa.  The LA Times understands the conundrum facing Democratic leadership on Capitol Hill, even if Reid and Pelosi don’t — or don’t want to admit it.


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sorry to go OT

Krugman taken to woodshed by formed Fed manager

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22327819/Pinto-How-Did-Paul-Krugman-Get-It-So-Wrong-11-9-09

DrW on November 9, 2009 at 3:39 PM

The GOP can bring the senate to a standstill by refusing to grant unanimous consent to bring business forward. They can demand, again by refusing unanimous consent, that each and every bill – including the ‘health care’ monstrosity – be read aloud. The dems can bypass a filibuster with the 51-vote nuclear option, but the republicans can mount a virtual filibuster by taking advantage of the unanimous consent rule, and all it takes is one senator to do it.

wright on November 9, 2009 at 3:20 PM

True, but how long could the GOP keep this up? They would get hammered with being obstructionist, and the Lame Media would do the hammering FOR the Dems.

So, unless there is some legislation which is NOT realted to the budget (can’t be fillibusterd) that the Dems want to pass? They could just wait out the GOP on this…

After all, Crap and Trade is dead anyway… Obama is going to install it under the current law anyway.

Romeo13 on November 9, 2009 at 3:40 PM

I’ll believe it’s dead when the whole stinking bill dies along with it.

jimmy2shoes on November 9, 2009 at 3:40 PM

Is the collective intelligence of the MSM trying to push Democrats away from what they know is a sure political loser? Of course they are.

Theworldisnotenough on November 9, 2009 at 3:40 PM

Is this the Feline Bill, the one with nine lives?

fourdeucer on November 9, 2009 at 3:41 PM

I hope someone in the GOP stirs up the coverage for illegal aliens issue, too.

Wethal on November 9, 2009 at 3:41 PM

This legislation is the Democrats jihad against the American People and the Constitution. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear them yell “allahu akbar” if it passes.
Cybergeezer on November 9, 2009 at 3:31 PM

Yes, I can just hear Reid giving a ‘Shout out’ to Marx, Lenin, Mussolini…

Juno77 on November 9, 2009 at 3:42 PM

The Dems will nuke us.

The only people they approve of it for- Americans.

It’s their ultimate option.

This monster ain’t dead.

Zombie Health Reform Lives!

profitsbeard on November 9, 2009 at 3:43 PM

I went to a healthcare townhall for our repub congress candidate in El Paso on Saturday. 5 people showed up! Unfortunately, he didn’t actually have any ideas of what to do except saying that if it passes he’ll work on repealing it.

Then yesterday, hubby and I took our youngest into the er at WBAMC (the hosptial on FT Bliss). The wait wasn’t bad (in and out of the er in 3 hours and another 40 minutes for the meds) but this one young wife was just bitching about the wait. Then she started in on how the health care passes. The gentleman next to her says that supposedly any reform passed wouldn’t effect us. Then she just got really mad and says she can’t stand not being able to get appointments and having such long waits in the er. The man just shook his head and told her that this is government health care- just think of the pain if this was on a national level. That shut her up.

Why does everyone that is in favor of this monstrosity think that every one is going to have a “cadillac plan” and everything is going to be just perfect?

cibolo on November 9, 2009 at 3:45 PM

Obigatory

no, no, its not dead, its restin

agmartin on November 9, 2009 at 3:45 PM

With few exceptions, politicians do not serve their country or their constituents. They are only concerned with getting reelected often enough to grab that golden fleece known as a government pension. It’s a job!

They know that they can be targeted when they run for re-election. It doesn’t take a large contingent to bring down a politician if they are targeted by true believers. If your Rep. or Senator doesn’t understand this, make them understand.

Vince on November 9, 2009 at 3:45 PM

Ed wrote:

The Democrats can’t afford to pull a conference committee switcheroo here, either. If the Senate passes a bill without a public option and a conference committee puts it back in (while stripping the Stupak amendment), it will get filibustered with the assistance of Lieberman and perhaps a handful of red-state Democrats. That will be especially true if the conference report comes back in 2010, an election year in which Blanche Lincoln (D-AR) and others will have to explain themselves to center-right voters.

And cthulhu responded:

Wasn’t it just as dead a couple of weeks ago, before it lurched out of the grave and passed the House?

cthulhu on November 9, 2009 at 2:58 PM

My response:

cthulhu’s absolutely right, Ed, sorry. This whole drill has been nothing but smoke and mirrors, with the bottom line being that the Democrat leadership simply doesn’t care what you, or I, or the media, or anyone or anything in this big wide Universe says, does, feels, or cares about it all.

This is the Democratic Party’s one and only chance to get national health care passed. They’ve read the handwriting on the wall, and despite what some may think, they absolutely are paying attention to the e-mails, letters, and phone calls they’re receiving. They know, truly do know, how unpopular this is, and all of Obama’s agenda has been, to-date.

That’s why they have to ram it through now, before they lose majority control again, which most likely will happen in 2010. They simply don’t care. Because they know that once it’s in place it will be a horrific nightmare to try to undo it all, and that it will most likely be watered down but still stay in place as their new signature entitlement federal government program.

And they’re willing to sacrifice much in the short term, knowing that, like all other such programs, eventually they can build on it and expand it to the point where they will once again regain absolute power and control.

They will even sacrifice their own associates’ Congressional seats in the short run in order to win that long term goal of complete power and control of the US government and all of its branches.

I’ve been saying this now for months, and said it last year during the election, because even the MSM was making similar sacrifices (reputation, etc.) to achieve that ultimate Liberal/Progressive control/power grab.

Joe Lieberman is from an older era where honor and integrity mattered, and because of that he’s been left naive and unprepared for the extent to which Pelosi/Reid and others are prepared to sacrifice everything to gain that power and control permanently.

This is their only chance for the next 50 years or so, and they’re pulling out all the stops. They’ll outright lie and cheat and pull outrageous backroom shenanigans and make deals to achieve that goal.

No matter what they say, no matter what the LA Times says, or any other MSM source says, even their own party’s naysayers, …. don’t believe a word of it. They WILL get this passed before the mid-term elections. Even in a watered-down form that is palatable to people like Lieberman, it’s a toe in the door. They will get it passed before November 2010. Guaranteed.

KendraWilder on November 9, 2009 at 3:46 PM

The remaining parts of the bill are arguably just as bad as the so-called public option. Obama touts his “exchange” as creating a market, but what it does is turn what is already a incredibly over-regulated market to non-market of the functional equivalent of public utilities, all authorized to offer the identical non-plans at unaffordable rates. These zombie insurance companies are further regulated to the core of their beings; they cannot decide who to insure, their cannot retain more than a pittance of profit (on the off chance they’ll make any), etc.

Even it was never the intent, the Public Option is a red herring or distraction; the non-informed can celebrate it’s demise, but the remaining plans are offered by effectively nationalized insurance companies, i.e., one giant Public Option, with ZERO ACTUAL COMPETITION, because non-conforming insurance plans are outlawed.

BCrago66 on November 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM

I will believe it’s dead when I can dance on its grave. I bet you also think that abortion funding in the bill is dead, too, eh? This is the absolute worst time for us to start counting unhatched chickens and let down our guard.

joe_doufu on November 9, 2009 at 3:49 PM

KendraWilder on November 9, 2009 at 3:46 PM

Nope! They won’t!

Vince on November 9, 2009 at 3:50 PM

This is their only chance for the next 50 years or so, and they’re pulling out all the stops. They’ll outright lie and cheat and pull outrageous backroom shenanigans and make deals to achieve that goal.

Agreed. With one exception. In 2010 or 2012, the GOP is returned to power with large majorities and this abortion of a law gets negated. Day 1.

BobMbx on November 9, 2009 at 3:52 PM

KendraWilder on November 9, 2009 at 3:46 PM

Yep. Once in place, it can be embellished the next time they have a majority. They are thinking long term,…this is just a resting place if they pass a watered down version.

a capella on November 9, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Saying that this is inevitable tells me that you are a quitter. That you are not willing to work for it’s defeat.

I don’t need to hear (or see) that attitude. Get off your ass and work to defeat it!

Vince on November 9, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Don’t be fooled! Dick Morris explains better than me!!

Published on TheHill.com on October 27, 2009

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) had two problems. How would he get the healthcare bill out of the Senate Finance Committee without revealing the glaring potential fissures in his party over the public option on healthcare? And how could he lend a veneer of bipartisanship to a one-party bill?

He couldn’t allow a vote on final passage out of the committee with a public option in the bill because he knew that he would lose Democrats and would have no GOP support. But real compromise was always out of the question. He wanted his public option. So he evolved a strategy where the only bill that would be voted on in committee would be one that did not have a public option, all the while planning for the final product to have one.

So he used the bait of a bill with no public option to hook moderate Democrats like Blanche Lincoln (Ark.) and the gullible Republican Olympia Snowe (Maine).

When the bill emerged from Finance, by a lopsided 15-9 vote, it restored to healthcare reform the momentum that had stalled due to the public outrage so evident during the August recess.

Then the dexterous Reid capitalized on that momentum to put the public option back into the bill, reversing the commitment to compromise that allowed the bill to clear the committee in the first place.

This tactic of bait-and-switch offers a foretaste of what Reid will attempt on the Senate floor. He obviously hopes to replicate these tactics in getting the bill through the Senate.

As he did in the Finance Committee, Reid has opened his gambit on the Senate floor by embracing a public option. He does this for two reasons: First, he wants to send a signal to the House and Senate militants that his heart is in the right place and that the final bill will probably have a public option. Second, he needs to have room to compromise so the final Senate version attracts the moderates he needs. First he veers left in order to then swing right.

His next move is predictable. As he awaits House action, he stands firm in backing the public option. And as he nears the point of a Senate floor vote, he will pretend to modify that option in order to attract moderates and perhaps a few stray Republicans. As he and Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) did in committee, he will truncate or even abandon the public option to win unanimous Democratic support (and perhaps one or two Republicans).

Then, in conference with the House, he will pull the old bait-and-switch tactic again, jettisoning the Senate bill and embracing a full-throated public option in the final version that will return to the Senate.

At that point, he hopes to use the momentum of House passage and the imprimatur of the conference committee to try to persuade senators, and the public, that it is this bill or no bill and that only a proposal with a robust public option can pass.

The point of this strategy is never to ask moderates to vote for a public option until the final vote after the conference committee. Let them build a record of having opposed the public option to sell back home. Let Reid show that he tried to compromise. And only put the final test to the moderate senators at the very last minute, when all the momentum is on the side of final passage.

If he succeeds, Reid gets a bill with his public option. But even if he fails and has to delete the public option at the last minute to get Senate support, he will still have gotten the healthcare bill through.

By making such a fuss over the public option, with the connivance of the liberals, he keeps the spotlight away from the Medicare cuts, the end of Medicare Advantage, the inevitable rationing of healthcare, the taxes on the uninsured and the sick and the cuts in medical reimbursement. A bill with all these provisions — even without a public option — is pernicious enough!
And these tactics can still produce a bill with a public option.

Will this tactic work? It all depends on the political environment outside Washington. If the bill is only marginally unpopular (the current 40-55), it will probably pass.

But if public opinion moves another five or so points (to, say, 35-60 against), then the moderates will probably refuse to cave in.

Nearly Nobody on November 9, 2009 at 3:57 PM

ObamaCare … a giant step in the attempt to turn the US into a Marxist hellhole.

Just call it what it really is.

darwin on November 9, 2009 at 3:58 PM

More like “playing possum”.

katy the mean old lady on November 9, 2009 at 3:59 PM

The GOP senators should put absolutely everything they have into offering a real alternative.

Deliver a solution to Americans in need that is reasonable, doable, and makes sense….and beat this by offering the plan that is superior.

That’s the only way. But, the one offered by GOP reps wasn’t sufficient. Can the GOP listen to the real need?

Or just keep reacting against.

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:00 PM

I wanted to reach through the TV and choke that hag Saturday night. I can’t stand Pelosi. I will dance a thousand dances the day she dies. I swear I will go to wherever she is buried and relieve myself on her grave.

SouthernGent on November 9, 2009 at 3:19 PM

And you thought the lines for government healthcare would be long.

Aviator on November 9, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Their one shot to get this through the Senate was to do it before Ted Kennedy died. Now it’s every Senator for him/herself. Harry Reid doesn’t have the balls that Pelosi had to toss out everyone else’s bills and present one of his own, and he can’t because it will mean certain defeat for him in 2010. So he is left to herding cats among the terrified moderates who are up for reelection next year, the liberal loudmouths like Chuck Schumer, and outlier Joe Lieberman.

I don’t think he can do it. He can’t get commitments from Snowe and Collins to vote for anything, and he can’t get to 60 without them.

rockmom on November 9, 2009 at 4:02 PM

Bull this is a media and obama scheme…they will soon say we have reached a compromise that hinges on this. BULL.

tomas on November 9, 2009 at 4:04 PM

So they will take it out, Lieberman will fold like a cheap lawn chair and let them vote it out, and then they will sneak it back in.
The American people are really sick of these people with so called principals that get a stupid agreement and fold!

And while we’re on it,
It certainly is comforting to know that MY so called president, the most bipartisian, transparant, non divisive, African, Marxist, son of an adulterer, communist, brought up by other communists, who liked to hang out with communist, and went to a black liberation communist church for 20 years and married a white hating racist woman thinks that people exercising their 1ST AMENDMENT RIGHTS to speak out are teabaggers and anti government!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As the congress passes the most anti American, liberty killing, freedom killing, unconstitutional bill EVER IN THE HISTORY of this country. And as Obama kills jobs and our economy in order to bring about some sort of commie utopia he is seeking, he has the audacity, and the hubris to call us a frickin gay term!

REALLY, the president of the Free World is calling his own people gay sex terms, and anti government!

Well here is a sex term for you Obama. F#^# YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bring on you tax, and your so called health care, and let’s see you make us do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Be gone swine!

patriotparty1 on November 9, 2009 at 4:05 PM

I wanted to reach through the TV and choke that hag Saturday night. I can’t stand Pelosi. I will dance a thousand dances the day she dies. I swear I will go to wherever she is buried and relieve myself on her grave.

SouthernGent on November 9, 2009 at 3:19 PM

Too bad for her only about 25 people were watching C-Span when this thing passed. Hard to believe she screwed up her own moment of triumph so badly. Most Americans’ first knowledge of the House passing this bill is going to be today when they hear and read that ii is DOA in the Senate!

rockmom on November 9, 2009 at 4:06 PM

what really chaps me is that they insist on passing these bills out of public site. ON A SATURDAY???? The thing is, they KNOW that people are pissed about this…yet they cram it down anyways. And they will cram something down our thoats, of that I have no doubt.

search4truth on November 9, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Saying that this is inevitable tells me that you are a quitter. That you are not willing to work for it’s defeat.

I don’t need to hear (or see) that attitude. Get off your ass and work to defeat it!

Vince on November 9, 2009 at 3:57 PM

No, it absolutely does NOT mean that we’re quitters. But you seem to not be able to absorb the fact that it won’t matter what we do, they’re determined to get some form of it passed.

We’ll continue to fight, and fight like hell, up to the bitter end and beyond. Don’t worry about that. It’s just so frustrating knowing that they’ll pass it anyway, regardless of what the majority of the voters want in that regard. It’s like they’re operating in some warped parallel universe, watching us through distorted mirrors, and laughing at us in the process, because they’ve got the power and control and we can’t stop them, for now, and not until at least November 2010.

KendraWilder on November 9, 2009 at 4:18 PM

This isn’t dead – but I’d like to know what will possibly put a stake through its black heart once and for all?

vapig on November 9, 2009 at 4:18 PM

This isn’t dead – but I’d like to know what will possibly put a stake through its black heart once and for all?

vapig on November 9, 2009 at 4:18 PM

Racist!

Aviator on November 9, 2009 at 4:25 PM

It’s a setup.

True_King on November 9, 2009 at 4:26 PM

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Roger that. let’s show the world what great liberal Democrats we can be too. We can start by perpetuating the myth that the average American is too stupid to take care of them self without the government.

hawkdriver on November 9, 2009 at 4:27 PM

How many times did read it was dead in the House?

I don’t trust Communists.

mankai on November 9, 2009 at 4:31 PM

Come’on folks use your heads…if Reid only needed 51 votes to pass this, he would have done it at 12:02 Sunday morning…do your homework before you panic…there are a lot of phases that this monster has to go through each one is going to be harder than the one before…

Ltlgeneral64 on November 9, 2009 at 4:32 PM

This isn\’t dead. It\’s going to be passed and signed into law. The stock market is going to skyrocket as many businesses think they\’ll be able to push at least a portion of their employee healthcare costs off onto the taxpaying public. The dollar will grindingly tank as nobody overseas will believe we can ever pay for this. The stock market will then tank. With the currency and financial markets in shambles, our socialist future will have been achieved.

trigon on November 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Roger that. let’s show the world what great liberal Democrats we can be too. We can start by perpetuating the myth that the average American is too stupid to take care of them self without the government.

hawkdriver on November 9, 2009 at 4:27 PM

Well, I think it would be a brilliant political move. Protect free enterprise.

But take all the information we now have, offer an alternative that is simple, addresses pre-existing conditions and recission, along with some mechanism to ensure that there is a low-cost plan that is guaranteed available in case of unemployment.

That’s a winner.

Then, talk about it everytime a camera points that way.

People want something more than another 6 months of protesting and anger.

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM

The GOP senators should put absolutely everything they have into offering a real alternative.

Deliver a solution to Americans in need that is reasonable, doable, and makes sense….and beat this by offering the plan that is superior.

That’s the only way. But, the one offered by GOP reps wasn’t sufficient. Can the GOP listen to the real need?

Or just keep reacting against.

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Claptrap! The GOP did offer a bill that the offered cross-stateline coverage, additional medicare and tort reform. The CBO approved it and it would cut billions from the deficit. The commies rejected it.

vapig on November 9, 2009 at 4:34 PM

People want something more than another 6 months of protesting and anger.

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM

How very quaint of you to dismiss the very people who would be directly affected by this monstrosity!

vapig on November 9, 2009 at 4:35 PM

Keith Hennessey thinks there is only a 20% chance the bill will be “narrowed”, presumably eliminating the “public option”. He also thinks there is a 20% chance the whole effort implodes, so I guess one could say he rates it a 40% chance the public option doesn’t happen; but that means he sees a 60% chance it does.

I’ll start thinking it’s dead when the Democrats who run Congress say it’s dead, and not before. Which means I’ll continue to worry about the survival of liberty and the threat of ungodly high taxes for a bit longer, despite the AP and LAT attempts to cheer me up.

MTF on November 9, 2009 at 4:37 PM

Claptrap! The GOP did offer a bill that the offered cross-stateline coverage, additional medicare and tort reform. The CBO approved it and it would cut billions from the deficit. The commies rejected it.

vapig on November 9, 2009 at 4:34 PM

I didn’t hear enough about it. It came so late. I think people want portability, access, and low-cost.

If the plan has those guarantees?

People would write to insist that their Dems support it. Most people don’t care if it’s Dem or GOP. They simply want to see a solution that makes sense.

The Dems have failed on that one.

At this point, however, if there’s not a viable alternative, then the public will mostly hear negative spin about the “Agins.”

I wouldn’t let them set the agenda. Really mess with them. Solve the problem WITHIN the framework of free enterprise, and it’s a winner.

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:38 PM

In other words, defeat this by absolutely offering the best ideas.

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:39 PM

It can always be added at anytime. Even years from now.

albill on November 9, 2009 at 4:43 PM

Intrade has the public option at 10% for passage by the end of this year.

So if you guys like those odds, there is some money to be made. I still wouldn’t take that bet.

jhffmn on November 9, 2009 at 4:46 PM

I didn’t hear enough about it. It came so late. I think people want portability, access, and low-cost.

If the plan has those guarantees?

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:38 PM

Well, of course you didn’t hear about it – the media made sure you didn’t.

However, if medical insurance was opened up across statelines (like auto insurance) people could shop around and the prices would drop dramatically due to free-market competition.

Tort-reform wouldn’t limit a person’s ability to sue for malpractice, but it would put a cap on awards – which would also bring down prices.

Opening up medicare would cover the truly needy that would include the 10 million we have (the most accurate figure for our truly uninsured) that really need assistance.

vapig on November 9, 2009 at 4:48 PM

“The House bill is dead on arrival in the Senate,” Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said.

It damn well better be but I have no faith in you Lindsey.

beachgirlusa on November 9, 2009 at 4:51 PM

Liebs has figured out that a public plan would mean the State of Connecticut would experience a depression as insurance and claims processing jobs moved to DC… A CT congressman cannot vote for any bill in the form & fashion they are considering in DC right now and be even close to representing the interests of Connecticut…

phreshone on November 9, 2009 at 4:54 PM

In other words, defeat this by absolutely offering the best ideas.

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:39 PM

That’s not defeating it if you didn’t want it in the first place. It would be doing what they want, your way.

hawkdriver on November 9, 2009 at 5:00 PM

Is Scozzafava a singer?

SouthernGent on November 9, 2009 at 3:27 PM

LOL

cmsinaz on November 9, 2009 at 5:05 PM

The GOP senators should put absolutely everything they have into offering a real alternative.

Deliver a solution to Americans in need that is reasonable, doable, and makes sense….and beat this by offering the plan that is superior.

That’s the only way. But, the one offered by GOP reps wasn’t sufficient. Can the GOP listen to the real need?

Or just keep reacting against.

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Give me a break. The GOP have been talking about elements of their plan for years and the liberal media and communist/socialist Democrats have used massive fearmongering to undermine these conservative ideas with the American people.

Untie health insurance from employment or
Allow small businesses to band together to get same rates as large companies
Health Savings Accounts(With a tax break)
Allow purchase of insurance across state lines
Remove burdensome state mandates
Tort Reform

All of the above were never even considered by liberals when the GOP was in the majority. NOTE: I did not say in control as they never had a filibuster proof majority.

Please spare us your patronizing prattle.

Jvette on November 9, 2009 at 5:06 PM

Mary in LA on November 9, 2009 at 3:34 PM

don’t use if you can help it….true libs behind that curtain

cmsinaz on November 9, 2009 at 5:07 PM

I didn’t hear enough about it. It came so late.

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:38 PM

How about May 21, 2009? WSJ:
Republicans Offer Health-Care Plan

Christian Conservative on November 9, 2009 at 5:23 PM

That’s the only way. But, the one offered by GOP reps wasn’t sufficient. Can the GOP listen to the real need?

Or just keep reacting against.

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:00 PM

In all honesty, how much of the public’s support for the Dems plan is based on the hope they will get something for nothing in the deal? 50%? 60%? 99%?

Isn’t that basically the ballgame, here? People want something for nothing and think the Dems will give them that. The GOP, for all of its faults, has at least enough intellectual integrity to say that something for nothing does not exist, so we’re not going to promise it to you.

None of the math on the Dems’ promises (cutting administrative costs with a public option, cutting CEO salaries by putting civil servants in place of a CEO at the public option, cutting down paperwork with healthcare IT) works and health care costs will still rise faster than other costs UNLESS we are willing, as a society, to put a stop to healthcare innovation and, like someone buying last year’s clothes at TJ Maxx, put up with “last year’s” health care technology. Then, we’ll have commoditized health care technology at commodity prices. The problem is that medical technology is advancing so much faster than the rest of the economy, a lot of people get priced out of the latest and greatest.

venividivici on November 9, 2009 at 5:25 PM

false sense of security and all that

ZOMBIE social engineering programs are never fully dead

keep a wary eye on them while we wait for the troops to ride in in ’10…

ginaswo on November 9, 2009 at 5:28 PM

I hope someone in the GOP stirs up the coverage for illegal aliens issue, too.

Wethal on November 9, 2009 at 3:41 PM

Yes, the House completely caved to the demands of the Hispanic caucus and made sure that the bill they passed contains no citizenship or ID requirements. So if this POS passes, US taxpayers will be funding all sorts of healthcare for every foreigner who manages to make it across the border. But hey, we’re only Trillions of dollars in the hole already. So why not force US taxpayers to fund more comprehensive healthcare for millions of poor foreigners. That’s what “social justice” is all about, right?

AZCoyote on November 9, 2009 at 5:29 PM

AnninCA

There is of course the question fo just what kind of reform we can actually AFFORD right now

the GOP HR 3400 is a fine start and if people cannot be bothered to sign up for bennies for which they are entitled, then maybe we should leave people be…stop poking at everyone like anthropologists and all that

ginaswo on November 9, 2009 at 5:30 PM

AZcoyote

I envision a new LOB. reverse fake id to prove we are illegal to avoid the fine.imprisonment for being uninsured

ginaswo on November 9, 2009 at 5:31 PM

Deliver a solution to Americans in need that is reasonable, doable, and makes sense….and beat this by offering the plan that is superior.

That’s the only way. But, the one offered by GOP reps wasn’t sufficient. Can the GOP listen to the real need?

Or just keep reacting against.

AnninCA on November 9, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Come on Ann – I expect better from you. The key word here is “doable”. The plan offered by conservatives was doable. What’s wrong with “doing” that? If it somehow falls short of some needs, then we can try to address those.

But a “solution” like Obama care that overreaches, impedes on libery, overspends, is governement at its worst.

Knowing that any action taken will be irreversable, is it not wise to proceed with measured steps and with caution?

connertown on November 9, 2009 at 5:38 PM

Maybe I shouldn’t say this – because our continued success depends on our side maintaining intensity and not becoming complacent.

But in the interest of helping people avoid heart attacks – let me say – the Public Option IS dead. It died back in July / August.

The thing is – you can always count on a politician to protect his skin – no matter what party he’s in. There are exceptions to this rule – like idealistic members of the House who haven’t been around long – yeah – some of those will follow “Pied Piper” Pelosi off a cliff but …

Not in the Senate – where the REAL political snakes are.

Trust me on this – there’s a plethora of Democratic Congressmen who are thanking GOD for Joe Lieberman – because he’s going to keep them from having to vote FOR a public option that will kill their careers.

I dare say that Reid himself is thanking GOD for Lieberman – because Dingy has a re-election bid to win and he’s waaaay behind. The sooner the public option gets buried – the better for him. And he’s dieing to use Lieberman and the GOP as convenient excuses to kill it.

Look at his freakin’ bill – 10 years of taxes to pay for 5 years of health care. That’s an abortion – and even Dingy is smart enough to realize that. If he passes that s’hite – he’s sunk (though he’s prolly sunk anyway).

Have you ever seen Joe Lieberman come out and state his opposition to anything so forcefully?

I haven’t – and I think it’s because he already has some head nods from Democrats that he’s not going to be beaten up too badly for his lack of support here.

Think about it.

If I were a Democrat – I’d be saying … “WTF?? Why are we following this Obama dude off the cliff? He hasn’t accomplished a damn thing and he won’t have our backs in the next election – look what happened to Corzine in New Jersey”.

It’s clear the Obama magic is gone. Maybe the inexperienced house members don’t realize that – but the Dems in the Senate do – the moderate ones anyway.

This is dead. “A” Bill will pass – but it will be ceremonial and they’ll haul Bagdad Bob out to hail the merits and the “historic” merits of it – but it won’t really be anything of the such.

HondaV65 on November 9, 2009 at 5:45 PM

If I were a Democrat – I’d be saying … “WTF?? Why are we following this Obama dude off the cliff? He hasn’t accomplished a damn thing and he won’t have our backs in the next election – look what happened to Corzine in New Jersey”.

HondaV65 on November 9, 2009 at 5:45 PM

True enough, especially in the Senate, which is as far as most of these guys will ever go. I worry about deals that “can’t be refused” being made for just a few that could seal the deal, though. An ambassadorship in a cushy country with lots of [insert gender of Senator's preference here]? Cabinet position in a 2nd Obama Administration? Head of a gigantic division of the health care bureaucracy? Robert Byrd-esque ‘highway to nowhere’ earmarks?

venividivici on November 9, 2009 at 6:01 PM

WWMD…what would Mao do?

Wyznowski on November 9, 2009 at 6:05 PM

Sen. Lindsey Graham is one of the most disingenuous politicians to ever hold the title. He comes out and proclaims “This House bill id DOA!” like some hardcore fiscal-conservative but what he intentionally neglects to mention is that a modified version of the bill is certainly still up for grabs.

As far as counting on Sen. Lieberman to stop the bill, I think one’s fooling himself holding out for that since he has in the past already indicated support for a public option. It sounds like he’s using this as a negotiating ploy.

I hate to be a sad sack but my take is that the “fix” is in for some form of mandatory Universal Healthcare to will have loop holes for abortion, illegal immigrants and a public option.

Sailfish on November 9, 2009 at 6:11 PM

KendraWilder -

When was the last time a fed bureaucracy was dissolved?

The Pelosi Poison Pill creates 111 of the damn things!

Look up the history of the “federal excise tax” – just *how* long after the war it was originally put in place to pay for had ended was it first repealed?

Kendra is exactly right here – the Dem playbook is to go long when they’re in charge, and then defend every inch. They know the Repubs are a divided team and suck on defense.

Further, the Dems know they’ll be aided and abetted in defense by statist (i.e. big-government) Repubs who, despite having an R after their names, have no interest in small government.

Truly, this is a depressing day.

Mew

p.s. to Vince – I am working to oppose this, but part of that is to educate people about the actual game. If we decide to go after each other, we do Pelosi’s work for her, eh?

acat on November 9, 2009 at 6:12 PM

Until the vote has been counted, I will never ever believe that the Health Bill or Cap and Tax has been defeated. In fact, I am beginning to wonder if a vote will defeat this tyranny.

mobydutch on November 9, 2009 at 6:15 PM

Lindsey Graham is an Obama Democrat, and while he says the Health Bill is dead in the Senate, he is whispering in John Kerry’s ear. This man is NOT to be trusted.

mobydutch on November 9, 2009 at 6:17 PM

Who are they kidding? The libs seemed determined to ignore the publics wishes and move ahead full regardless. I’m not sure about anything at this point.

conservativecaveman on November 9, 2009 at 6:23 PM

I agree conservativecaveman. When they lie without blinking an eye, how can we be sure about anything at this point?

mobydutch on November 9, 2009 at 6:26 PM

The GOP can bring the senate to a standstill by refusing to grant unanimous consent to bring business forward. They can demand, again by refusing unanimous consent, that each and every bill – including the ‘health care’ monstrosity – be read aloud. The dems can bypass a filibuster with the 51-vote nuclear option, but the republicans can mount a virtual filibuster by taking advantage of the unanimous consent rule, and all it takes is one senator to do it.

wright on November 9, 2009 at 3:20 PM

This is from Ed of Hot Air about reconciliation(i.e. Nuclear Option): Under the rules of reconciliation, no cloture vote is needed, as the chamber has a Constitutional duty to produce a budget. Some Democrats have threatened this for months, notably Chuck Schumer, but the plan has a couple of big flaws. First, the Democrats have to convince the Senate parliamentarian, ostensibly non-partisan, to agree that the bill is primarily budgetary. No one in their right mind could honestly make that judgment about massive regulation of 15% of the American economy. They’re likely to get denied before they even get started.
However, if they do manage to get past that obstacle, the Republicans can shut down the Senate for the next year. Those unfamiliar with the parliamentary procedure may not realize that a great many steps get skipped by unanimous consent. Bill-reading is just one example. One Senator can force each and every bill to be read aloud at every appearance it makes on the Senate floor, including when they are sent to committee. For ObamaCare and cap-and-trade, one bill reading could take a week, keeping the Senate floor locked off from any other business.
Traditionally, Senators give each other the courtesy of unanimous consent to allow business to proceed at a normal pace. If the Democrats try to force ObamaCare through reconciliation, that unanimous consent will dissipate faster than an Obama expiration date. It won’t take the entire Republican caucus to gum up the works, either; it only takes a single objection to end unanimous consent, and the GOP has more than a couple of conservative firebrands who will gladly toss sand in the gears to stop Harry Reid from steamrolling them.
Democrats might think that this will gain them sympathy with the public, but not if they’re breaking rules to pass an increasingly unpopular and intrusive piece of legislation. It will create a firestorm of anger even worse than what we’ve seen in the townhalls thus far. They would be signing their way to minority status, especially in the House. They can kiss the rest of their agenda goodbye for the rest of this session, too, including cap-and-trade. Even budgeting will prove very difficult.

The first Quote is the only other person to mention the Unanimous Consent principle. Ed mentioned it in his post which I quoted above from August?. The pubic option is dead as a door nail in the Senate. I can think of at least a half a dozen Senator who will NOT WAIVE the unanimous consent principle. The other part of Lieberman quote which is not mentioned is the size of the debt. The debt and the deficit are the real killers to anything getting done.

Clyde5445 on November 9, 2009 at 7:11 PM

Come on now, Compassionate Fascism is good for you.

Dhuka on November 9, 2009 at 7:29 PM

It ain’t over until Stabenow sings.

tatersalad on November 9, 2009 at 7:41 PM

There are no “blue dogs” or even “moderates”, only Democrats. Never count on them to do the honorable thing. That is a foreign concept to them. Their only motivations are greed for power and cash and fear that power and cash may be denied them.

SKYFOX on November 10, 2009 at 9:40 AM

So AP says the public option is dead, huh? Riiiiiiight. We’re being rope-a-doped again, just like the reporting that Pelosi couldn’t strong arm the votes to pass that $2,000,000,000,000 monstrosity.

olesparkie on November 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM

You can have my universal health care when you pry it from my cold dead hands….after I expire waiting in a gov’t run emergency room waiting for hours to see the unqualified graduate of the Rocco Colombo School of Medicine for my agita.

Huckabye-Romney on November 10, 2009 at 3:26 PM

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