Is this the high-water mark for ObamaCare?
posted at 9:00 am on November 8, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
The Democrats wheedled, cajoled, begged, and finally abandoned its defense of abortion — truly a watershed moment — in order to get their version of ObamaCare passed … in the House of Representatives, where they enjoy a 75-seat majority. In the end, they could only muster a five-vote win on Nancy Pelosi’s bill out of that strong majority. Until this week, most had assumed that any ObamaCare bill would pass the House easily, but that the fight would be in the Senate.
So what does this 220-215 vote tell us? Capitol Hill Democrats know that this bill is an albatross. It’s true that Pelosi was able at the end to negotiate votes to allow a few at-risk Democrats that supported the bill to oppose it in the final vote, but even that tells a tale of fear and consciousness of unpopularity. The razor-thin vote, as well as a number of earlier, more sincere defections, show that this bill was a radical and expensive approach to fix a 13% problem — and even most of the Democrats know it.
Now the focus swings to the Senate, where Harry Reid will have to gain supermajorities at least twice to allow the bill to proceed to a final vote. That seems unlikely, although not impossible. The process will slow down considerably from the jam-down Pelosi conducted in the lower chamber, perhaps even to a crawl if Tom Coburn makes good on his threat to have the bill read in its entirety on the Senate floor. That will leave plenty of time for ObamaCare opponents to find all of the taxes, mandates, and government intrusions that will make it even less popular as it sits in the Senate. Even before Coburn’s threat, Democrats had pushed expectations for the bill out to late January — which makes the politics of the bill even more fraught for Democrats, at the start of an election year.
Democrats have another problem, even in the House. The Senate is not considering the Pelosi plan, but one they wrote themselves. Unless Reid pulls his own bill out of consideration and substitutes Pelosi’s — which is a possibility — that sets up a conference committee and second vote in each chamber, assuming that the Senate passes anything at all. If that happens, a conference committee will have to meet to produce another bill that would then go for a full floor vote in each chamber. If abortion funding makes its way back into the bill, or if mandates or taxes increase, or if conscience protections get stripped, then all of the hurdles that Pelosi barely cleared the first time return, and without the ability to amend the bill (conference reports get straight up-or-down votes without amendments in order to have both chambers pass identical legislation for the President to sign.) That means another shot at a filibuster and a lengthy bill reading in the Senate, and at least a chance to hold Bart Stupak’s pro-life coalition in the House under the spotlight to find out whether they will vote their conscience or bow to Pelosi.
We always thought the fight was in the Senate, so the only real surprise yesterday was how weak Pelosi actually was on ObamaCare. Our focus now has to shift to those red-state Senators who will have to explain to voters their potential support of a bill that imposes unconstitutional mandates and trillions of dollars in new costs on a government that can’t pay its bills now. And in this case, we’ll only need two of them to stop the runaway tyranny of the Democratic agenda.
Blowback
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How can dingy threaten anyone?He is doomed for reelection.It galls me to think that we have so many gutless wonders up there.
ohiobabe on November 8, 2009 at 12:36 PM
After the high-water mark comes the hell mark.
Jerricho68 on November 8, 2009 at 12:43 PM
The Democrats in the House can cheer as much as they want right now.
Because in less than 360 days from now, they will be doing anything but.
That is when We The People will have our say on the matter, and we too speak with votes.
pilamaye on November 8, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Blanche Lincoln will not get a moment’s peace from me.
NoLeftTurn on November 8, 2009 at 12:47 PM
We need prayer and tv commercials…plenty of each.
redwhiteblue on November 8, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Better the high-water mark for ObamaCare than the high-water mark of the country.
Chainsaw56 on November 8, 2009 at 12:51 PM
Thanks for the information Lox and Wethal!!
Fox just announced that someone is going to be interviewed from the AMA in a few minutes. Maybe the interview will be about the ??endorsement??
yoda on November 8, 2009 at 12:55 PM
People who think other wise are fools, or haven’t been paying attention for the last 40 or 50 years.
whbates on November 8, 2009 at 1:11 PM
When the tax-funded abortion goes back into the bill, will the pro-life Reps (D’s) vote against it?
stenwin77 on November 8, 2009 at 1:13 PM
“What are you in for?”
“I killed 13 people at Fort Hood?”
“I sawed my grandmother into 500 pieces with a chain saw.”
“I sexually molested five year old boys and buried them in my cellar.”
“I REFUSED TO BUY HEALTH CARE!!” Put that guy in isolation!
MaiDee on November 8, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Nope. They’ll vote pro-choice… reluctantly, of course but ya gotta think of the greater good…
Something the pro-life Reps (R’s) couldn’t seem to figure out last night.
Skywise on November 8, 2009 at 1:21 PM
I’m sorry but I don’t trust these blue dog senate democrats. The only one I do trust his word on is Lieberman.
cubachi on November 8, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Our fight has to be the COST. NO one seems to care about sliding into socialism. No one seems to care that 70% of our experienced physicians will retire.
People do seem to care about the costs to them.
stenwin77 on November 8, 2009 at 1:25 PM
That is possibly the wierdest thought process I’ve ever read.
whbates on November 8, 2009 at 1:28 PM
I don’t trust Lieberman either. When all is said and done, he’s still a democrat.
hachiban on November 8, 2009 at 1:32 PM
That is possibly the wierdest thought process I’ve ever read.
whbates on November 8, 2009 at 1:28 PM
What do you expect from a cockroach?
huckelberry on November 8, 2009 at 1:36 PM
I was worried it would pass but hoped it wouldn’t since our Blue Dog decided to vote against it. I can tell you this; the Democrats will pay for this big time. Even my Rep, since those I talked to believe that the Speaker allowed him and others to vote against it to save face.
I did find it interesting that Pelosi shutdown the Capitol during DC TEA Party II with Capitol Police armed with automatic weapons, to apparently defend her from the People, on the top steps of the East side. One older lady was really upset that the police were so armed against Americans. There were many on the West steps and around the wall but none I saw with automatic weapons.
Join us in our attempt to have our local corner club expand towards taking back our nation . . . one corner at a time. See http://patriotscornerclub.ning.com.
Once a week we “Stand up for Freedom” at a heavily traveled corner in Bel Air, MD and have lately discovered, unbeknownst to us, there are others doing this too. We need to be educating our fellow citizens between our TEA Parties and this is a way to do that with minimum effort. Join us to see what can be done, what we do and your suggestions on improving our efforts.
amr on November 8, 2009 at 1:37 PM
This has been the plan all along. Set up a situation where health care for Boomers is rationed in order to help shuffle us off this mortal coil as quickly as possible.
Once we’re all dead; problem solved.
techno_barbarian on November 8, 2009 at 1:38 PM
So all that apocalyptic whining on last night’s thread was for naught? Say it ain’t so!
Grow Fins on November 8, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Are you going to whine when this thing dies in the Senate? Yeeeeeaaah…
ddrintn on November 8, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Do you ever have anything useful to say or do you just hang around here to shoot off your mouth and make wise-ass remarks?
rplat on November 8, 2009 at 1:44 PM
I love your little immature illogical game. Many have concerns about where this will lead and then one or two make the point that it will depend on the senate and you come back with your post. You’re an idiot . Get your nose out of Obamas arse and think for yourself.
CWforFreedom on November 8, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Never in the field of human conflict have so many expected so much from so little.
HiHo on November 8, 2009 at 1:55 PM
Excrement is more like them, with apologies to naive scum.
Grow Fins, you were the one who was whining. Too bad you didn’t expire on your own euphoria.
Schadenfreude on November 8, 2009 at 2:00 PM
I still think it was a bad idea to pass the amendment stripping fed money for abortions last night. I’m as pro-life as the next guy, but now I know how some of the Beltway Republicans must feel.
That being said, I agree. There is still hope – let’s not give up.
Ryan Gandy on November 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM
I hope someday to figure out what it is in the liberal mind that ‘reasons’ if thing/person X does something bad, then if person Z does something 4 times as bad, that somehow fixes the problem.
sloopy on November 8, 2009 at 2:07 PM
Ed says there can be a filibuster on the bill after it comes out of conference, but I seem to remember from the assault weapons ban in 1994 that we weren’t allowed to filibuster a bill once it came out of conference–does anyone know for sure about this rule?
jedipastor on November 8, 2009 at 2:08 PM
I am pro-life, too. Hate to be cynical, but I don’t know how many people genuinely voted for Stupak last night that aren’t confident abortion will be back in the Senate version OR that NARAL/Planned Parenthood will have a cadre of lawyers in the wings to sue for equality under Obamacare, thus having a court rule abortion is a right we must pay for.
englishqueen01 on November 8, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Someone forgot to replace Old Glory with the hammer and sickle for the photo. Probably just an oversight during all the excitement.
jimmy2shoes on November 8, 2009 at 2:20 PM
Stop with the hero worship and it’s easy to understand.
True_King on November 8, 2009 at 2:27 PM
This is actually good news. It guarantees the democrats will be crucified in next year’s elections, and Obama in 2012. The reality is they are doing it all for nothing, since it isn’t going to pass the Senate. And even if it somehow did, it will be de-funded in 2011, and eliminated in 2013. They are falling on their tiny swords for nothing.
ray on November 8, 2009 at 2:29 PM
High water mark? The American people are drowning [the future worth of the dollar is in doubt & hyperinflation is just around the corner] and the leadership in government [are spending money we don't have] with all this health care talk are describing the water.
Americannodash on November 8, 2009 at 2:34 PM
I’m not even joking, but the Norwegian media is now using the word “bipartisan” in covering this news.
Seixon on November 8, 2009 at 2:45 PM
they want to cram this down our throats. Fine.
Now it’s our turn. We will make them pay.
Pcoop on November 8, 2009 at 2:46 PM
Proof-positive that the American media is as delusional and deceptive as the European one, so long as their Utopian idealistic socialist agendas get met.
Schadenfreude on November 8, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Correction:
media is = media are
Schadenfreude on November 8, 2009 at 2:58 PM
Proof-positive that the American media is as delusional and deceptive as the European one, so long as their Utopian idealistic socialist agendas get met.
Schadenfreude on November 8, 2009 at 2:55 PM
They’re going to be met allright,by cold steel affixed to the end of a rifle. Soon real soon.
huckelberry on November 8, 2009 at 3:01 PM
It’s going to be tough for Dingy Harry to get a bill with a public option through the Senate. So no public option; no abortion. If such a bill gets signed, is it a victory for Barry?
Rational Thought on November 8, 2009 at 3:03 PM
My question is could Pelosi have gotten more votes? Did she just let a lot of members vote against to save themselves next year?
taney71 on November 8, 2009 at 3:14 PM
awww. Pelosi looks so happy when she gets her way. Anyone have any idea who she works for? It sure isn’t us.
johnnyU on November 8, 2009 at 3:17 PM
If health care passes, eventually the republicans will have no choice but to adopt it as a campaign issue. Once private insurance companies no longer exist, the only choices Americans will have left is no insurance and Obama care. The republicans will never win another election on a platform of doing away with Obama care.
You want proof? Look at medicare and social security.
csdeven on November 8, 2009 at 3:27 PM
This is so depressing. To think that my health care will be obsolete and I will have to go on the government dole. I hate the fact that the government is slowly taking over the private sector.
Mo2Do on November 8, 2009 at 3:27 PM
It is not and never has been about healthcare; but all about moving the nation into socialism. The economically devestating housing bubble the democrates created to lay the foundation for healthcare will be nothing compared to what this (socialist party) democrat’s bill will do us if it becomes law.
Franklyn on November 8, 2009 at 3:35 PM
What about reconcilation. The 50 vote plus one thing. Do you really have any doubt they will not try this.
I have a feeling they have some nefarious evil plan to get this done.
kangjie on November 8, 2009 at 3:37 PM
I agree with Lindsey. This bill will be DOA in the Senate. It was a liberal symbolic gesture for liberals.
I also agree with Sarah’s piece today. The public will not take kindly to the midnight vote.
AnninCA on November 8, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Don’t be too sanguine about this failing in the Senate.
Unless about twice as many people than there were the last few weeks get REALLY vocal about it now, I believe it will pass. The senate frat boys (and girls) care less about their constituents than the congress does, and since there are so few of them, they will be easier to buy off by the powers that be.
And if they can’t do it with actual numbers, as others have said, there is always ‘reconciliation’.
Harry Reid weakening because he is in a reelection fight?
Not likely. All 0bama has to do is offer him a ‘czarship’ that pays better and has as much or more power, without the need to deal with constituents and he will indeed do whatever it takes to get it passed.
LegendHasIt on November 8, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Optimism is good . . . but I gotta bad feeling . . . this gives the dems momentum (at least at their blog / opinion sites) and the noise about the majority of the country wanting the public option is likely to get louder. Lindsey may say DOA now but so was the public option a week or so ago . . . and election 2010 is pretty far off . . . by then it will be law and we will have taken that “first step (after many) to 100 years of tyranny.” (RR)
“Well, sonny, America used to be free; but too many wanted to give up liberty for
securityfree-be’s and the government “of the people” died.” (What I’ll be telling my grandson.)rebuzz on November 8, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Please honor us with an intelligent, rational, 3 or 4 paragraph post. Not the simple 1 or 2 sentences of crap you’ve been giving us.
Can you do it?
Del Dolemonte on November 8, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Thank you Ed for the analysis. It makes this awful pill easier to swallow.
Wrong thread, I know, go Steelers!
InTheBellyoftheBeast on November 8, 2009 at 4:35 PM
The repubs got snookered on the Stupak. They Are stupid!
They should have voted against it. It would not have passed.
The health bill would not have passed. The Hyde bill still remained.
Still bringing a knife to a gun fight!
lilium on November 8, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Clyde5445 on November 8, 2009 at 4:37 PM
I knew I saved ^ for some reason.
Clyde5445 on November 8, 2009 at 4:39 PM
You know what is really sickening? The One uses our money for his bribes to pass his bill.
mobydutch on November 8, 2009 at 4:41 PM
http://www.breitbart.tv/did-the-democrats-hide-a-283-million-dollar-bribe-in-the-health-care-bill/
I despise this administration!
redridinghood on November 8, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Actually it’s only a 2 vote win. They had to hvae 218 for it to pass. They only got 220.
boomer on November 8, 2009 at 4:55 PM
When does Chris Christie take over for NJ? Lautenburg isn’t exactly a spring chicken…if you know what I mean. Also, Byrd is, what, 91?
SouthernGent on November 8, 2009 at 4:59 PM
blockquote>I still think it was a bad idea to pass the amendment stripping fed money for abortions last night. I’m as pro-life as the next guy, but now I know how some of the Beltway Republicans must feel.
That being said, I agree. There is still hope – let’s not give up.
Ryan Gandy on November 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM
–The Senate Finance Commmittee bill already prohibited federal funds from being used to subsidize plans that provide abortion coverage. It looks to me (I haven’t read the amendment, just the press coverage) that the Stupak amendment in the House went further and prohibited any plan that offered abortion from being allowed in the Exchanges, which goes beyond the idea that public funds should not be used to directly or indirectly subsidize those plans.
Jimbo3 on November 8, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Time to pray for miracles, or to become totally apathetic and head for the hills, along with the good doctors and nurses, and the guns, of course.
America is in a self-inflicted twilight zone.
Schadenfreude on November 8, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Were not done until we’re dead.
If this thing passes in the senate, we’re still not done.
If this thing puts me in Jail, I’m still not done.
If this thing sends me to the firing line, I’m still not done.
And if they pull the trigger, they’ll have to cremate me to make sure I don’t come back from the grave.
Chaz706 on November 8, 2009 at 5:23 PM
If anyone knows of a plausible way for this to make it through the senate, please link the information. The only thing I have yet to hear is reconciliation, the nuclear option, which would be a disaster.
A little concern is always warranted but I want to see the doom crowd try and convince the rest of us.
I want to know, aside from the nuclear option, what they can do to pass this.
jhffmn on November 8, 2009 at 5:23 PM
Go back to grow fish and simplesemen, they are having problems with the vibrator.
lovingmyUSA on November 8, 2009 at 5:27 PM
All this brings me back to the NY23 special election. S-fava, hoffman, and Owens.
S-fava threw her votes to Owens at the last minute, very much like the game played in the McCain primaries (if you can’t win, hold your votes to the last, and throw them to the one you pretended to oppose) S-fava played it as if Hoffman the outsider could not understand the needs of the district. More likely Hoffman would not play the game properly for the big guys
If the National GOP thought they needed s-fava to fight natl Health, they were betting on the wrong horse. That is a strong ‘if’, since s-fava is ultra lib the natl party had to know they were betting on a pro healthcare horse
If anyone understands now, the Owens vote was one of the important ‘stackers’ wanted for the last Healthcare gasp of the year. The vote was ‘tight’, because DEM leaders needed to allow various DEMs to oppose the bill to get re elected in their districts.
I am getting weary of the Blue Dog tag which is now being used by the groomers to cast liberal candidates as stealth conservatives to get them elected
The waiting period for betraying constituents has been shortened to four hours, so the game has changed and the dogs are no longer reliable breeds
entagor on November 8, 2009 at 5:28 PM
Olympia Snowe and the blue dogs in the senate agree to vote for cloture but against the bill itself when it comes to vote. The bill get the 60 it needs for cloture.
Then the bill comes for a vote and passes. The blue dogs get to say they voted against the bill before they voted for it. Snowe gets so blasted over her support of Pelosicare that she defects like Arlen Specter and goes democrat.
Tom Coburn’s reading of the bill may be our only shot at stopping this. The longer this bill stays on the floor of the senate the worse it stinks… at at 2000 pages, Tom’s going to be reading it for a looooooooong time.
And if they amend the bill, Tom Coburn can say ‘well I read the last bill but not this bill’ and read it again, and the bill will stink again.
After awhile the dems will either go nuclear, give up, or it will be November again.
Chaz706 on November 8, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Thank you for that link!!! I am so disgusted!
lovingmyUSA on November 8, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Imagine for a minute you ARE GROWFINS…not nice is it????Isn’t it clear why he is a liberal now…is to me!
winston on November 8, 2009 at 5:35 PM
This bill will pass. It will be as bad as you can imagine. Look at the stimulus bill. No republican support in the hous and it passed the senate. It was as bad as we could imagine. But wait-there’s more. Cap and trade will be passed, And it will be as bad as you can imagine.. It will take the rest of this century to undo the damage that will be done in the next 6 months. If our nation survives that long.
bilups on November 8, 2009 at 5:39 PM
Minor FIFY.
profitsbeard on November 8, 2009 at 5:42 PM
It will pass before the Christmas break.
albill on November 8, 2009 at 5:45 PM
This is nice. Obama went to Ft Hood to visit the families of the people murdered the other day.
lorien1973 on November 8, 2009 at 5:48 PM
You apparently don’t listen to him all that often. He has been brutal with the GOP for years.
Chris_Balsz on November 8, 2009 at 5:55 PM
Completely right. This was the backstory of the day, in fact the real story of our time. Watching the proceedings yesterday I was impressed once more by the paltry, uncomprehending and credulous Republicans. Many of them are good people, rhetorically serviceable, but still political mediocrities, unequipped for this fight, and outmatched by the ferocity, audacity and determination of the Left. There are no lionhearts or luminous intellects among them, no defenders of conservative faith able to call out the breathtaking arrogance and assault on freedom on display yesterday. It should have been easy; isntead it was inconceivable. Did you see how the Republicans strained to be deferential, as if each and every one was terrified of being labeled another Joe Wilson? ‘Maybe John Dingell will like me and let me talk if I show him what a nice and non-beligerant quasi-conservative I am, do you think?’ The Left has them whipped, has the culture whipped, and knows it.
This is why Obamacare or pelosicare or whatever they call it will pass in the Senate. I don’t begin to doubt it. The Left is playing Chicago rules (which is always Leftist Rules), and the Right is playing Robert’s Rules. This will decide the game in the end. We’re stuck with the people we have, and they just aren’t good or smart enough. They’re all products of pop culture educations that deliberately did not teach leftism, and they’ve been groomed according to a collegial ideal of politics which Lefist laugh at from time they become Leftists.
In a sense, another Reagan in our time is closer to impossible than possible. Remember, Reagan came of age in the heat of the struggle against communism. He stood up to them in Hollywood. He knew them, named them, fought them, and was never fooled again by them. He knew them so well he could laugh at them. And it made them crazy. As they are, and as they would appear to be in an orderly world they hadn’t already corrupted.
This is war, and I don’t see any warriors on our side in either House. I see solid campaigners, but ones far too concerned with sounding nice than fighting dirty which, as Orwell said, must happen if you’re fighting for your life.
rrpjr on November 8, 2009 at 6:01 PM
Why do you insist on making the republican party into the “union of organized egoists”? You are going to have to pay for the healtcare of other people. So, what is so shocking about that? Today people pay taxes so that presidents can play general Rommel and crisscross foreign deserts with their tanks. I find that to be far more repulsive. The people wants healtcare and now they are going to get it. The alternative would be to take it by force. Do you want social unrest?
—
This is why I call you all liberals, since you worship money instead of taking responsibility for the community. I am well off and I can pay for my own health care but nobility obliges and it is clearly the duty of those of us with money to support the poor through our taxes. Any conservative would know that, but I am afraid most of the last true conservatives in America either left for Canada or sailed home to Britain after the revolution.
—
All hail King George!
JC Silverberg on November 8, 2009 at 6:06 PM
lorien1973 on November 8, 2009 at 5:48 PM
He and is wife are a total class act. “Those were the days!”
milwife88 on November 8, 2009 at 6:10 PM
Take your noblesse oblige and shove it up your ass.
venividivici on November 8, 2009 at 6:18 PM
There’s actually nothing “clear” about your proposition and, quite frankly, your rationale is unpersuasive. You want to support the poor? Donate to a f*cking charity.
venividivici on November 8, 2009 at 6:22 PM
Get off this thread you swine!
I just got a job and now I gotta start taking care of myself again (like I always have). I’ve got enough problems with my own bills… and government’s not helping.
Even Jesus Christ said you take care of your own first, then you take care of others. I got bills to pay, mouths to feed, and unless your a democrat, liberal, fabian socialist, or Ben Bernake then money doesn’t grow on trees. I gotta work to pay for my rent, food, clothing, utilities… and I think it’s a crime (especially now days) that I have to pay Uncle Sam his due first before I pay for anything else.
You can take your version of conservatism and shove it where the sun don’t shine. I’ve got to work for a living.
Chaz706 on November 8, 2009 at 6:25 PM
Actually the conservative position is to do that in your own life outside of government. Read a book. Oh and read up on who is really more giving….it is Red America.
CWforFreedom on November 8, 2009 at 6:30 PM
As with most Rush bashers they don’t listen to him . Now they may have heard a clip or too but they don’t listen.
CWforFreedom on November 8, 2009 at 6:31 PM
I received a fundraising letter from Daryl Issa, who is working round-the-clock to defund ACORN. Get behind his efforts.
onlineanalyst on November 8, 2009 at 6:50 PM
The Dems, particularly the Regressives, have been playing that Johnny-One-Note siren song on behalf of ObaMao’s wishes with the word hisorice. Every thing this Clown Prince of Bill Ayers does is “historic.”
What do we do? Turn the tables on the word “historic” because history is on our side. Defeat Socialized Obamacare! Your choice will be historic for the championing of liberty!
onlineanalyst on November 8, 2009 at 7:11 PM
I was surprised yesterday… I paid attention in the morning and thought someone said voting would begin in about 4 hours… When I had time to pay attention again it was evening…
I was pleasantly surprised to see 39 Dems against.
So… freedom may survive this administration. But it isn’t going to be easy.
We honestly can’t trust this congress to do any legislation. They are the most dishonest we have ever had. Not only dishonest but they have a destructive agenda.
Being the party of NO! Is morally right in this circumstance.
petunia on November 8, 2009 at 7:13 PM
You republicans must be pretty proud of Boehner and his house republicans. Without their votes on the Stupak amendment, Pelosi would not be enjoying her victory today.
Judases.
paulsur on November 8, 2009 at 7:13 PM
Defeat Socialized Obamacare!
If you have two coins to rub together after the IRS raids your bank account to pay for Obamacare, those thin dimes will be all the change you can believe in!
It’s historic!
Congress thinks it knows how to run your life better than you do!
onlineanalyst on November 8, 2009 at 7:17 PM
The poor are not helped through taxes. The poor and the rich are controlled through taxes. Government is about control and power and who has power over your life you or the rulers who can tax you.
If you want to help the disadvantaged give to charity. Charity does not attempt to control others. It’s motive is sincere.
Anytime the government is given power it is an assault on liberty. Government power is death.
petunia on November 8, 2009 at 7:18 PM
You’re dreaming. The Dems have an 80 seat advantage. There is no way this bill wasn’t passing in the House.
xblade on November 8, 2009 at 7:18 PM
How many shout outs did he start with? I bet he left them laughing… but not jumping to any conclusions of course.
petunia on November 8, 2009 at 7:21 PM
Pelosi is nothing more than a glorified ward heeler in a power suit. She uses vague threats and the withholding of campaign money to extort votes. She and Emanuel are cut of the same cloth of dirty, extortionary politics.
Vote No on GovernmentCare!
Its Defeat Will be Historic!
onlineanalyst on November 8, 2009 at 7:22 PM
Ed, thanks for making me feel better. I’ve stepped back from the ledge, for now./sarc
WordsMatter on November 8, 2009 at 7:32 PM
Don’t you get tired of your “position”? I mean it must be hard to straighten up after all that time bent over. And please don’t forget to use mouthwash, I’m sure your breath stinks. Also, don’t forget to shout out to your ruler, Odouchebag, while he is “resting” at Camp David. “King George”, as you call him, had the decency to go comfort the victims at Fort Hood. A class act, one your “Master Healthcare Planner” could never duplicate–especially since there were no camera’s alowed.
Oh, and while we are on the subject of class, why didn’t Mrs. O go visit Fort Hood. Here’s why: http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/HoldenBeachBum/LauraMichelle.gif
NO CLASS!
lovingmyUSA on November 8, 2009 at 7:33 PM
And the House caved to the demands of the Hispanic caucus and refused to allow any of the bill’s provisions to include U.S. citizenship requirements. So if this POS bill passes in the Senate, the majority of Americans will be paying higher taxes and higher health insurance premiums so that we can subsidize millions of illegal aliens’ healthcare — and not just the ER visits that we pay for now, but their chiropractic adjustments, hair transplants, IVF treatments, mental health counseling, etc.
AZCoyote on November 8, 2009 at 7:36 PM
it will be months before anything happens, remember this was supposed to be a law by now.
rob verdi on November 8, 2009 at 7:44 PM
Let’s address this piece by piece, shall we?
So, I’m going to be forced to pay for another person’s healthcare? If my neighbor smokes a pack a day, it’s right for me to pay for their throat operation? And if paying for your child’s ear infection means that I don’t have enough money left over to treat my own child, that’s okay? My grandmother might be sick, and I’d like to pay for her care, but the government can better use my money to pay for a stranger’s care? Will anyone else care for my grandmother if I can not, or will she be left to rot when there are not enough resources for her?
Personal responsibility makes the world go ’round.
I find being murdered by terrorists to be repulsive, and I’m happy to pay for the defense of my life and freedom, particularly as it is that freedom that allows me to check any excessive action by my elected leaders. Since you don’t value freedom as highly as money, however, you can go ahead and defend yourself against terrorist threats. Good luck with that.
This is my favorite. First of all, there are numerous polls that show a majority of Americans oppose current healthcare legislation. If you’re willfully ignoring that, then you are every bit the tyrannical fool that you seem. Secondly, I assume that you mean that if we do not provide cheap/free healthcare for all at the expense of the productive half of the population, the unproductive half with rise up violently and TAKE IT. Did I get that right? People are so desperate for cheap healthcare that they’ll riot in the streets and kidnap doctors and MAKE them give care? WOW. I had no idea it was that bad. Hypothetically, if this were true, your solution is appeasement? Give them what they want so that they won’t riot and burn? THAT’S not a recipe for tyranny at all, is it?
Well, let’s see how well you’re performing your noble duty: what’s most important to you, in terms of helping others? Let us assume that affordable healthcare is your pet cause: you’d like those who can’t afford healthcare to have it. Wonderful, you now have several options: because you live in a free society, you may choose to give all that money you have directly to a person for whose healthcare you would like to pay, and 100% of your money will go to help them. Or, you may find a charity that pays for healthcare for the poor, and 100% of your money will be used for that cause. Maybe your government takes some of your money in taxes to help pay for healthcare (but you can’t choose this, you’ll be doing it whether you want to or not, so your good intentions don’t really matter), and you’re lucky if 1% of that gets to the people that you think need it. A lot of that money will probably go to the wars you don’t approve of, and a lot of it will go to pay the salaries of people you don’t approve of, and still more of it will go to causes you think are ridiculous and could really care less about. In the end, which option is a)the most moral, and b)the most helpful? Is it better to give freely to the cause of your choice, and know that your gift is not being wasted, or is it better to have your money taken by force and KNOW that most of it IS being wasted? And if too much money is taken from you in taxes, what will you have left to give to charity?
People who think they’re being compassionate by paying taxes are the most self-serving scum I know.
Yeah, because Canada and Britain are just bastions of liberty right now, aren’t they?
I think we all know that you long for a monarchy. That would cut all those meddlesome liberty-loving republicans (intentional small “r”) out of the way and make it possible to enforce all the noble causes that you so desire.
You should win an award for most arrogant, amoral comment of the day.
Animator Girl on November 8, 2009 at 8:06 PM
Actually, Petunia, the link from lorien1973 was to a story about how former President George W Bush and Laura Bush went to Fort Hood.
For all his flaws, Bush has more love for this nation and its troops in his pinky finger than all the Democrats infesting the White House and government combined.
I rest easier knowing if this goes to revolution, most of the military will defect and be on our side, seeing as Obama has no respect for them. His awful statements the day of the Fort Hood shooting are proof-positive of that.
englishqueen01 on November 8, 2009 at 8:07 PM
And how is donating to charity going to help? It will never be nearly enough since so many republicans are free riders who refuse to help paying for the poor. The sharing needs to be enforced through the state or too many people will just try to evede their responsibilities. A five year old could figure that one out. People just aren’t generous and caring enough so the few of us who are have to force the rest of you to comply with society’s standards. Now behave and nicely pay your taxes! It is for your own good as well: “As soon as a coin in the [tax] coffer rings / the soul from purgatory springs”.
JC Silverberg on November 8, 2009 at 8:08 PM
Oh, what a load of BS. Time and again it is Americans who give more than any nation in the world, including several other nations combined.
Forced “charity” is neither charitable nor helpful. The left has been waging a war on poverty through income redistribution since the 1960s. It’s not going very well is it? Because the people running these programs are greedy, incompetent pigs who waste money.
I give to a charity, it goes where I want it to. I give to the government, it goes into the pocket of some politician. If you’re okay with that, you have one screwed up definition of “charity.”
englishqueen01 on November 8, 2009 at 8:11 PM
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