Twitter’s hopping with rumors about vote-wrangling and backroom deals so I figured you guys could use a thread to exchange information. Just within the past half hour, Politico’s heard whispers from the Democratic leadership that they’ve reached 218. Debate on Stupak’s amendment to strip abortion funding from the bill is coming up, followed by a vote on that and then — sometime between nine and eleven p.m. — the big vote on PelosiCare itself. If you’re watching this all play out on C-SPAN (either on TV or online), keep your eye on Republicans demanding a promise from Pelosi that if Stupak’s amendment passes, it won’t later be dropped in the conference committee with the Senate. The Democrats have been coy about that thus far.
Updates will appear below as warranted. In the meantime, here’s Paul Ryan trying to rally the troops, apparently to no avail. Exit question via Karl: Should the GOP vote “present” on Stupak’s amendment instead of voting for it? Think strategically.
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Rovin: Those dips that you cite from DU earlier do not realize that private insurers will have to raise their premiums to cover the same mandates in Pelosi-Care.
Those dips also do not understand that they will have to pay into Government Care for several years and yet have no coverage until the bill kicks in.
Any bill that covers a “child” on a parent’s insurance until the “child” is 26 has contributed to the dependence and infantilization of our nation.
And once Obama care starts to cut compensation to doctors, the smartest people will bail from medical school and go to other fields of study.
csdeven on November 8, 2009 at 9:23 AM
BINGO!! In the UK the average salary for a doctor is the equivalent of $90K. Who in their right mind will put in all the time and effort, go to medical school to make $90K a year? I sure as hell wouldn’t.
Put yourslef in the position of a college senior with good grades. Option 1: spend another 10 years in school to make $90K a year. Option 2 go to Wall St and make $100K starting salary.
It’ll pass in a watered-down, limp-wristed form in the Senate, and get charged up in conference. Obama will have his bill. It will be vague, incomprehensible and mostly harmless.
Until the regulators and bureaucrats go to work implementing it. Then we get to see first hand the power of the unelected and unaccountable.
This is what you wanted America. This is your “change”. This is now your “hope”: to be dragged, mind, body and soul, into a cesspool of enervating bureaucratic incompetence and malaise. You won’t get better health care; it will get exponentially worse. You won’t get a better economy; it will slowly grind to an indefinite crawl (”lost decade” anyone?).
But hey, you’ll still have Conan and super funny SNL skits about Sarah Palin anyone that argues against the socialist order, won’t you? And T.V. Plenty of T.V. Enough T.V. to rot your mind and sap your will to do anything about the crumbling world around you.
Bleeds Blue wants to be part of the nomenklatura and wants the rest of us peasants to eat cake.
nyx on November 8, 2009 at 9:32 AM
Bleeder thinks that because he lives in DC, he’s part of the elite and will get the same health coverage Nancy gets. Poor sap. I alsmot feel sorry for him.
I would pay anything to be in the waiting room at the ER when Bleeder or one of his kids has to wait 16 hours to be seen by a non-English speaking “doctor” who graduated from one of the “No Whites Need Apply” medical schools created by the bill.
Like I said, the only silver lining in all this for me is that Democrat voters will be hurt the most.
I’m betting the Stock Market takes a big dive into the $#!++er tomorrow, followed by a huge spin as to the reason why, by the @$$ kissing Left Wing Media. Anything but the fact that our country has been taken over by a party of Socialist Scum Sucking Puppets.
Are you being deliberately obtuse? I do not give a whit about what ethnic or minority background a health-care provider comes from. What I do object to is the preferential treatment given to said groups.
What has kept these minority groups out of health-care fields in the first place? Was it perchance their weak educational backgounds or poor grades? Are you saying that we should trust our health care to a person from the bottom half of the class?
Some of those other provisions that McCaughey cites have absolutely nothing to do with health care or delivery. They are social service programs…just as was that make-work job that Michelle Obama enjoyed as a political payoff.
There are so many things these “dips” fail to comprehend. Unfortunatly, (or thankfully), I have no access to comment at DU. I guess my point was that (even from their warpped prospective of the bill), many of “them” see this bill as FLAWED LEGISLATION full of unwanted mandates. Even our poor representation of liberal trolls here fail to grasp this understanding.
I’m not generally one to point out typos, since I’m terrible about them, but this is funny.
bleeds blue: first, i am not a dude.
My teenage daughter, who knows these things, assures me that “dude’ can now be used to refer to chicks, as well.
Dude seriously, what planet do you live on? I had the misfortune of having to go into a public run hospital in Atlanta not too long ago. If there were 5 white nurses in the joint I’d be surprised.
And you had a work emergency? Come on. If you’re going to lie, make it somewhat belieavble. Nobody here belives you work.
angryed on November 8, 2009 at 9:16 AM
It wasn’t life or death, but it was something that made me go in on a Sunday.If I wasn’t working would I be on line at 8AM?
And, you have a problem with nurses of color? I’m wondering about your comment.
Monsters. They have no idea what is in this bill and yet they signed off on it. This will go down in history as the quintessential culmination of the government take over of all public education – ignorance, evil and avarice. Infomation is all around us – easier to access than any moment in the history of mankind, and yet here we are at the center of a populace who deliberately choses to live in ignorance in exchange for empty promises that the government will take care of them.
From the foldings of its robe, it brought two children;
wretched, abject, frightful, hideous, miserable. They knelt
down at its feet, and clung upon the outside of its garment.
‘Oh, Man. look here. Look, look, down here.’ exclaimed the Ghost.
They were a boy and a girl. Yellow, meagre, ragged, scowling,
wolfish; but prostrate, too, in their humility. Where
graceful youth should have filled their features out, and
touched them with its freshest tints, a stale and shrivelled
hand, like that of age, had pinched, and twisted them, and
pulled them into shreds. Where angels might have sat
enthroned, devils lurked, and glared out menacing. No
change, no degradation, no perversion of humanity, in any
grade, through all the mysteries of wonderful creation, has
monsters half so horrible and dread.
Scrooge started back, appalled. Having them shown to him
in this way, he tried to say they were fine children, but
the words choked themselves, rather than be parties to a lie
of such enormous magnitude.
‘Spirit. are they yours.’ Scrooge could say no more.
‘They are Man’s,’ said the Spirit, looking down upon
them. ‘And they cling to me, appealing from their fathers. This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both,
and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy,
for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the
writing be erased.
So happy I can hardly contain myself! Mr. Cao, thank you for showing such courage in standing up to the leaders of your party, it won’t be forgotten!
Typhonsentra on November 8, 2009 at 9:37 AM
Oh yes…so brave…so daring… So brave that he waited until AFTER it was already sure it was going to pass before slinking over to the YEA column with his vote. *snickers* That was anything but brave. It looked to me more like trying to go where the wind blows. But if he thinks that the American people will stand for it, he will sorely learn how wrong that is. When all respectable polls show a majority are AGAINST the legislation, it becomes political suicide to go against that majority in such an open, public way.
I’ve already written my 2 Senators (Burr and Hagan). Burr – I asked him to do whatever he can to stop ObamaCare passing in the Senate. Hagan – I told her I’d be watching and that 2014 isn’t as far away as it sounds, and that she won’t have any national coattails to ride in that election.
Also dropped a line to my Congressman (Kissell) thanking him for voting NO last night. He’s now 2 for 2 – NO on cap-and-tax and PelosiCare.
Is it worth my time to “adopt” another Senator and call/write to him or her? Snowe? Collins?
At assorted times in our lives, my family and I have been treated by minority doctors. They were competent to excellent.
What is objectionable in the subsections of the PelosiScare bill is the provisions for preference and quotas for minorities. The insistence on Bennetton health providers does not necessarily assure quality health providers.
What’s next? Do we have to include a certain quota of assorted handicapped health-care providers…just to be fair?
What exactly is it that is keeping the young minorities from seeking health-care jobs? Are math and science classes too demanding?
If this bill is signed into law it will be fought in the courts and repealed later. We’re not going to stand for this and allow our liberty to be stolen by malicious marxists.
Please forgive me, but I’m going to repeat my point several times in the future and shout it from the highest mountain:
The Democrats now OWN the Health Care system.
I want the word Democrat to pop into peoples’ minds with every aspect of the coming Health Care system.
Waiting for an appointment? Democrats.
Can’t find a doc? Democrats.
Procedure or treatment denied? Democrats.
Booted out of the hospital too soon? Democrats.
Your condition not being handled the way you would like? Democrats.
Billing problems? Democrats.
Hemorrhoids bothering you? Democrats.
Congratulations! You and your fellow Democrats are now the proud owners of the new American Health Care system.
Every medical complaint and every negative aspect of peoples’ health care will, from this point forward, be subliminally or overtly associated with you and the Democrat Party.
If this bill is signed into law it will be fought in the courts and repealed later. We’re not going to stand for this and allow our liberty to be stolen by malicious marxists.
BottomLine5 on November 8, 2009 at 10:09 AM
Doubt it. The tentacles of this monster will be so far embedded in every aspect of society, it will be like trying to pull up an oak tree with your bare hands.
Pehaps the one redeeming thing about yesterday was reading the posts here. So many clear-thinking, redoubtable and witty patriots. I’m heartened. Thank you, all.
Nancy Pelosi! How do you like her now? For all the mockery and ridicule thrown at her by the teabaggers, she GOT IT DONE!
Next step, strip the odious Stupak amendment in committee. At least a few of the eunuchs known as “Blue Dog” Democrats will act like they have a pair, and push this over the top in the Senate.
Obama will sign the bill. Done.
I heard that this bill was going to cost upwards of $2trillion. Don’t worry folks…Obama said he wouldn’t sign a bill that added one dime to the deficit. Of course, the only ones buying that are the morons who voted for him in the first place.
Bleeds Blue, I’d really like to know why you think I should have to change my health coverage, that was part of a long term career incentive given to me by the military, in order to benefit you. I worked for 33 years and the current plan for retirement is to buy into a civilian version of what I have now. Excellent care under TriCare and Delta Dental for a fraction of the cost of this plan. Why does the majority of Americans have to suffer for a small minority.
God, it makes me miss Welfare. There, we could just let the government soak us in taxes and give the money away. But at least it didn’t require me to deprive one, what one could afford after they’d been raped on their taxes.
I have planned my life and my career for retirement. If you didn’t, bad on ya.
Guess what. My plans changed. I’m going to pay three times as much and at 2.5 percent higher taxes to boot, than what I would have under my retirement benefits. The sky already fell here.
This is a country that by almost every measure has had more ’socialist policies’ than are being currently proposed. The debt as a % of GDP has been higher, the tax rate has been higher, we made it through the new deal for crying out loud. How am i supposed to, on the face of it, KNOW that this country is finished??
We have a president who referred to the tea partiers as extremists last night. This man is supposed to represent all of America. He doesnt. Obama has done nothing but pass money to his banking/union/acorn cronies. Someone please show me one single piece of legislation that doesnt?
Now that this monstrosity has passed more people will be able to see whats in the bill. It will be talked about and rehashed over and over again in the news. Every detail will be brought out and scrutinized. Washington will feel a populist backlash soon enough.
I suggest the Republicans and Conservative representatives and their spox ppl systematically show exactly how this bill will affect each and every American citizen in their wallets. Americans dont pay attention to much until it hurts them financially. This bill does that in spades.
What happens when the country doesn’t unravel? What then?
ernesto
+1
So many chicken littles…..
Grow Fins on November 8, 2009 at 10:47 AM
You’re both idiots, the country won’t unravel, at least not quickly. However, since every part of our lives relates to healthcare we idiot congressmen have voted for invasive government control of nearly every aspect of our lives. The country won’t collapse, but her citizens will slowly lose their liberties.
Fins, ernesto, bleeds blue or some other supporter of this bill explain to me why I have to change my plans and pay more because of you?
hawkdriver on November 8, 2009 at 11:01 AM
I’m not a fan of this bill. If it were up to me the plan would look a lot more like the GOP plan. My issue is with people who think this bill is the death knell for America. It’s not. It’s a progressive piece of legislation, guaranteed to provide lots of unintended consequences, but america killing it is not.
Haven’t looked at the news in a while, I had no idea this happened. God help us.
SG1_Conservative on November 8, 2009 at 10:49 AM
According to Bleeds Blue, Grow Fins, crr6, simplesimon and all the other resident trolls, government is your God now. Withhold your worship at your own peril. If you need pointers, just read their posts and watch how reverently they hold government as their master, and the obsequiousness with which they praise Obama. Life is so much easier when you banish all independent thought from your mind, and allow someone in authority make your decisions for you, because they know best how your life should be lived.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Left Coast Right Mind on November 8, 2009 at 11:09 AM
You will get to pay for it and suffer through its real ramifications— far more than I- if it passes the Senate.
Sadly my kids will as well. But you sit back and act that way. Enjoy . /
To make a WWII analogy: Congress has now authorized the immediate building of 10,000 Spruce Gooses to bomb Germany and demolish the Nazis. Elitist fantasies that sound great, but lack underlying engineering skill, have many modes of failure.
What happens when the country doesn’t unravel? What then?
ernesto on November 8, 2009 at 10:39 AM
The inability of the CiC to protect American citizens from terrorist attacks on protected military bases sure speaks volumes. His and Bush’s inept administrations have rendered the fabric of this nation ragged.
We will see more. Compiled with rampant unemployment, the polling doesnt lie. America is waking up after spending the night with Obama suffering a killer hangover. If you think the protests during Bush’s administration were bad, just wait and see what 2010 and 2012 brings.
You all talk as if the consequences were insignificant.
My plan that I served 33 years to rate, through TriCare and Delta Dental would have cost combined, 4200 a year for premium coverage. This will cost me based on the last read, 17,200 a year. 13,000 dollars more.
I worked for the plan I wanted. I stayed in the military even after the retiree plan changed to a payer system with TC and DD because they were damn good deals. The government made a promise and this breaks that promise.
You’re both idiots, the country won’t unravel, at least not quickly. However, since every part of our lives relates to healthcare we idiot congressmen have voted for invasive government control of nearly every aspect of our lives. The country won’t collapse, but her citizens will slowly lose their liberties.
SG1_Conservative on November 8, 2009 at 11:03 AM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it -George Santayana
What happened the last time we had a severe economic crisis and hobbled the economy with tons of governmental intervention?
Hint: It was called World War II and it Ended with the use of Nuclear weaponry.
What happens if History REPEATS itself and the next World War BEGINS with the use of Nuclear Weaponry?
I see your point, I was just trying to point out that barring said cataclysmic event, the country will survive but with her Constitution rendered meaningless and her citizens captive to a massive government bureaucracy.
Was TARP bad? YES, I doubt you’ll find a conservative who’ll say otherwise. However…
1. Bush did not set out to “remake” America
2. Bush is no longer President and has no power
3. Bush spent money very poorly and was hustled by left-leaning advisers into some bad decisions, but the One and his congress are working hard to ensure that we will now work for the government
4. Bush dramatically increased our deficit, and this is bad, but Obama quadrupled down on that increase.
5. Bamster has been in charge for nearly a year with a fully compliant Congress and Court, for that reason alone the “Bush’s fault” excuse holds no water.
I see your point, I was just trying to point out that barring said cataclysmic event, the country will survive but with her Constitution rendered meaningless and her citizens captive to a massive government bureaucracy.
SG1_Conservative on November 8, 2009 at 11:21 AM
I understand, your point is that this is an incremental destruction of our liberties, and that seems to be by design.
I’m just pointing out that there are a lot of of disturbing parallels at work here that are similar to the great depression lead up to WWII.
There is no line in the sand that we won’t back away from. The beach is full of lines in the sand that have been abandoned, thus the creep of statism and the erosion of liberty continues unabated.
Everybody BUY another box of ammo if sitting on a case of lead and brass makes you sleep better at night.
Doesn’t stop the DOERS from doing those things that make you buy more ammo, does it?
Imagine the best armed flock of sheep in the history of the world, yet still being herded by the few, off to slaughter.
Absolutely, just look at the number of Hitler-esque little tyrants (Kim and Mahmoud are just two examples) actively seeking nuclear weapons and their delivery systems. There are a lot of disturbing parallels with history and not just WWII. The fall of the Roman empire was similar in many respect. Not saying that the US is an empire by any means, but before the Roman empire fell its citizens and leaders had become complacent, greedy, and corrupt, much like over half of our Congress. I can only hope that it never comes to that, but I genuinely fear for my generation(I’m 24 and I’m going to bear the brunt of these lovely new taxes social programs), but for the future generations who will not know freedom if Obama has his way.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
Ronald Reagan
40th president of US (1911 – 2004)
What happens when the country doesn’t unravel? What then?
ernesto on November 8, 2009 at 10:39 AM
Venezuela currently has record unemployment, record inflation, food shortages and power shortages.
But the country isn’t unraveling because Dear Leader Chavez has told them, through the government controlled press because he’s outlawed all opposition media, that everything is going according to plan as part of the “change” for a better tomorrow.
Remember, comrade, tomorrow will always be better.
WASHINGTON — Anh “Joseph” Cao[elected to Jefferson's LA seat] arrived in Washington on Wednesday to . . . a thunderous standing ovation at a meeting of the House Republican Conference, where he was introduced by Republican House Leader John Boehner of Ohio. Since Cao’s election Saturday, Boehner has proclaimed him the future of the party.
“Future of the Party” aye aye
Phew, that crow’s should leave a foul taste in the wannabe Speaker’s maw!
The new oath of office for elected Democratic “representatives”…
************** *****
I _____________(state Democrat name) do solemnly swear, to completely subjugate the American subjects of my district, to the devices and designs of the Democratic party leadership, as a means to further pursue the onerous and neverending cause, of the statist liberal agenda we hold dear, no matter the electoral outcome. I promise to do this of my own free will, as a mechanism to prevent the expression of the free will of the people whom this Congress was formerly sworn to represent. So help me, the Democratic Party.
Watch unemployment start shooting up and/or no rehiring. I read somewhere on a link that they are going to add 800,000 to the unemployment rolls in Feb. to correct for their over adjustment in the BLS birth/death model for businesses. That means that U3 unemployment is about 10.8% right now before the over adjustments they did reducing the workforce participation percentages.
The spoiled baby boomer hippies (libs) are going to be some of the first to receive this “care” as they age. Those of us that are slightly younger get to watch as they drool and mess their pants in public because they didn’t get the drug or device to prevent such embarassment.
Then, their ultra-cool, educated and enlightened persona will be all gone. And, I will be the first to point and laugh.
13Girl on November 8, 2009 at 8:36 AM
Yes that generation will be the first to suffer. But that would include anyone born between 1946-1964, you know those baby boomers/hippies! Not all of us were a)hippies or b)maintained that “groovy, turned on and tuned out” attitude.
As you’re laughing young lady, I pray that it’s not your parents or grandparents that are suffering because of rationing and the fact that their value is no longer cost effective. I pray that the day you become part of the elderly demographic that you don’t have to suffer the indignity of no care, reduced care and reduced value.
Part of the demographics of those who voted in this exemplary hope-n-change are the 66% of 18-29 year olds who voted, many first time voters. You know those who have been pampered and spoiled by their hippie era parents?
Take a look at the celebrity mouthpieces who are extolling the virtues of the liberal mindset, unless they’re over 45 they don’t belong to my generation.
If this nightmare does indeed become reality, know that one day the young people won’t be laughing at you as you dribble and wheeze, because that’s all they will have known and they will no longer care.
laugh away child, laugh away!
In the words of the late Jim Morrison: Whoever controls the media, controls the mind. remember that
and in the words of the late, great Thomas Jefferson: Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.
Absolutely, just look at the number of Hitler-esque little tyrants (Kim and Mahmoud are just two examples) actively seeking nuclear weapons and their delivery systems. There are a lot of disturbing parallels with history and not just WWII. The fall of the Roman empire was similar in many respects. Not saying that the US is an empire by any means, but before the Roman empire fell its citizens and leaders had become complacent, greedy, and corrupt, much like over half of our Congress. I can only hope that it never comes to that, but I genuinely fear for my generation(I’m 24 and I’m going to bear the brunt of these lovely new taxes social programs), but for the future generations who will not know freedom if Obama has his way.
SG1_Conservative on November 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Yes, I would agree – we have two very unsettling data points as to where we are headed.
Instead of edged weapons of the fall of Rome era and conventional explosive weapons of WWII we have Nuclear weapons.
If you take the reduction of work force participation into account U3 is probably over 11% already if an apples to apples comparison is made with the Bush era.
This will be a heavy blow to those seeking a job and really willing to work. Business owners and managers will be reluctant to hire given the new higher levels of taxataion and the reduction in demand as the bureaucracy and medical providers absorb more of GDP.
Watch unemployment start shooting up and/or no rehiring. I read somewhere on a link that they are going to add 800,000 to the unemployment rolls in Feb. to correct for their over adjustment in the BLS birth/death model for businesses. That means that U3 unemployment is about 10.8% right now before the over adjustments they did reducing the workforce participation percentages.
trollkiller on November 8, 2009 at 11:48 AM
The markets should be interesting…expect insurance stocks to take a big dive and watch more money move from the economy to things protected from government.
I’m not a fan of this bill. If it were up to me the plan would look a lot more like the GOP plan. My issue is with people who think this bill is the death knell for America. It’s not. It’s a progressive piece of legislation, guaranteed to provide lots of unintended consequences, but america killing it is not.
ernesto on November 8, 2009 at 11:08 AM
Ernie,
America has always been a unique country. It was built on the principle of individual liberty and freedom. Government was there as a necessary evil and severely limited.
Forcing people to buy a product with the threat of jail time as punishment, goes against everything this country stands/stood for. It’s one thing to raise taxes. It’s one thing to increase spending. That’s just a level of taxation that ebbs and flows.
It’s a whole other when the government starts dictating to people what they MUST purchase. If you can’t see why this is the death knell of America, you’re either stupid or not paying attention.
Venezuela currently has record unemployment, record inflation, food shortages and power shortages.
But the country isn’t unraveling because Dear Leader Chavez has told them, through the government controlled press because he’s outlawed all opposition media, that everything is going according to plan as part of the “change” for a better tomorrow.
Remember, comrade, tomorrow will always be better.
Skywise on November 8, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Gee, the ‘Hope’ for that ‘Change’ sounds real familiar, doesn’t it?
So the question becomes, what do we do with that knowledge?
Chainsaw56 on November 8, 2009 at 11:45 AM
a> We need to get organized. The socialists are out fundraising and out maneuvering us. We need our own conservative voices like “Moveon.org”, we need more conservative equivalents like “organize for America” to get the messasge out. We’ve already got some good foundations here (Fox news, HotAir, Rush, etc) but we need to coordinate the message as well as Rahm’s doing with the DNC.
b> We need political leadership capable of LEADING. McCain and the neocons still seem to have control of the party and that has to stop. We need tactical leadership now more than ever before but the GOP seems to be content to play political games that are good for the leaders of the GOP rather than promote their ideology.
c> We need to take back education and start getting conservative ideologies back into the schools. We can start with stopping the nanny-stating of the schools and “zero tolerance” policies which turn schools into nothing more than socialist state baby sitters with discovery time rather than centers of education. Self-reliance, self-growth and competition is long a thing of the past in schools… and that’s not unintentional.
I think the point was that the most outspoken proponents of the Bamster are the old hippies who now control the MSM. People like Whoopi, Oprah, Letterman, Stewart, etc. Young people have traditionally voted, much to my chagrin as I am 24 myself, liberal. But they generally do so because of the aforementioned celebutards, along with the multitude of musical and acting “talents” who are constantly barraging us with their political views. And despite the hype turnout for the 2008 election, as I recall hearing, was not significantly greater than usual.
All this does is further retrench small and large business as both brace for the onslaught.
How many of you believe, as I, that every small-business owner is on his or her PC today beginning to compose the company memo that the company will be terminating its health plan because the payroll tax is the more competitive route to go?
Blowback
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Rovin: Those dips that you cite from DU earlier do not realize that private insurers will have to raise their premiums to cover the same mandates in Pelosi-Care.
Those dips also do not understand that they will have to pay into Government Care for several years and yet have no coverage until the bill kicks in.
Any bill that covers a “child” on a parent’s insurance until the “child” is 26 has contributed to the dependence and infantilization of our nation.
onlineanalyst on November 8, 2009 at 9:27 AM
BINGO!! In the UK the average salary for a doctor is the equivalent of $90K. Who in their right mind will put in all the time and effort, go to medical school to make $90K a year? I sure as hell wouldn’t.
Put yourslef in the position of a college senior with good grades. Option 1: spend another 10 years in school to make $90K a year. Option 2 go to Wall St and make $100K starting salary.
Hmmmmmm….. I wonder what the choice will be.
angryed on November 8, 2009 at 9:32 AM
Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.
C. S. Lewis
jimmy2shoes on November 8, 2009 at 9:32 AM
Bleeds Blue wants to be part of the nomenklatura and wants the rest of us peasants to eat cake.
nyx on November 8, 2009 at 9:32 AM
It’ll pass in a watered-down, limp-wristed form in the Senate, and get charged up in conference. Obama will have his bill. It will be vague, incomprehensible and mostly harmless.
Until the regulators and bureaucrats go to work implementing it. Then we get to see first hand the power of the unelected and unaccountable.
This is what you wanted America. This is your “change”. This is now your “hope”: to be dragged, mind, body and soul, into a cesspool of enervating bureaucratic incompetence and malaise. You won’t get better health care; it will get exponentially worse. You won’t get a better economy; it will slowly grind to an indefinite crawl (”lost decade” anyone?).
But hey, you’ll still have Conan and super funny SNL skits about
Sarah Palinanyone that argues against the socialist order, won’t you? And T.V. Plenty of T.V. Enough T.V. to rot your mind and sap your will to do anything about the crumbling world around you.*sigh*
We’re doomed. [/derb]
spmat on November 8, 2009 at 9:34 AM
Bleeder thinks that because he lives in DC, he’s part of the elite and will get the same health coverage Nancy gets. Poor sap. I alsmot feel sorry for him.
I would pay anything to be in the waiting room at the ER when Bleeder or one of his kids has to wait 16 hours to be seen by a non-English speaking “doctor” who graduated from one of the “No Whites Need Apply” medical schools created by the bill.
Like I said, the only silver lining in all this for me is that Democrat voters will be hurt the most.
angryed on November 8, 2009 at 9:37 AM
So happy I can hardly contain myself! Mr. Cao, thank you for showing such courage in standing up to the leaders of your party, it won’t be forgotten!
Typhonsentra on November 8, 2009 at 9:37 AM
I’m betting the Stock Market takes a big dive into the $#!++er tomorrow, followed by a huge spin as to the reason why, by the @$$ kissing Left Wing Media. Anything but the fact that our country has been taken over by a party of Socialist Scum Sucking Puppets.
ronnyraygun on November 8, 2009 at 9:38 AM
Are you being deliberately obtuse? I do not give a whit about what ethnic or minority background a health-care provider comes from. What I do object to is the preferential treatment given to said groups.
What has kept these minority groups out of health-care fields in the first place? Was it perchance their weak educational backgounds or poor grades? Are you saying that we should trust our health care to a person from the bottom half of the class?
Some of those other provisions that McCaughey cites have absolutely nothing to do with health care or delivery. They are social service programs…just as was that make-work job that Michelle Obama enjoyed as a political payoff.
onlineanalyst on November 8, 2009 at 9:39 AM
onlineanalyst,
There are so many things these “dips” fail to comprehend. Unfortunatly, (or thankfully), I have no access to comment at DU. I guess my point was that (even from their warpped prospective of the bill), many of “them” see this bill as FLAWED LEGISLATION full of unwanted mandates. Even our poor representation of liberal trolls here fail to grasp this understanding.
Rovin on November 8, 2009 at 9:41 AM
You’re the one attacking and insulting everyone. Others are responding to your attacks, troll. Stop whining.
Blake on November 8, 2009 at 9:47 AM
I’m not generally one to point out typos, since I’m terrible about them, but this is funny.
My teenage daughter, who knows these things, assures me that “dude’ can now be used to refer to chicks, as well.
It wasn’t life or death, but it was something that made me go in on a Sunday.If I wasn’t working would I be on line at 8AM?
And, you have a problem with nurses of color? I’m wondering about your comment.
Bleeds Blue on November 8, 2009 at 9:50 AM
Monsters. They have no idea what is in this bill and yet they signed off on it. This will go down in history as the quintessential culmination of the government take over of all public education – ignorance, evil and avarice. Infomation is all around us – easier to access than any moment in the history of mankind, and yet here we are at the center of a populace who deliberately choses to live in ignorance in exchange for empty promises that the government will take care of them.
BrideOfRove on November 8, 2009 at 9:50 AM
From the point of passage of Obama care onward, people must never be allowed to forget that the state of the healthcare system is due to Democrats.
They wanted it.
Now they own it.
justltl on November 8, 2009 at 10:00 AM
Oh yes…so brave…so daring… So brave that he waited until AFTER it was already sure it was going to pass before slinking over to the YEA column with his vote. *snickers* That was anything but brave. It looked to me more like trying to go where the wind blows. But if he thinks that the American people will stand for it, he will sorely learn how wrong that is. When all respectable polls show a majority are AGAINST the legislation, it becomes political suicide to go against that majority in such an open, public way.
Highlar on November 8, 2009 at 10:00 AM
In the words of Bugs Bunny, “Of course you realize THIS means war.”
stefanite on November 8, 2009 at 10:01 AM
I’ve already written my 2 Senators (Burr and Hagan). Burr – I asked him to do whatever he can to stop ObamaCare passing in the Senate. Hagan – I told her I’d be watching and that 2014 isn’t as far away as it sounds, and that she won’t have any national coattails to ride in that election.
Also dropped a line to my Congressman (Kissell) thanking him for voting NO last night. He’s now 2 for 2 – NO on cap-and-tax and PelosiCare.
Is it worth my time to “adopt” another Senator and call/write to him or her? Snowe? Collins?
Lurking Vet on November 8, 2009 at 10:01 AM
Like every other democrat in this country… as long as you’re bleeding, that’s all that matters.
ronnyraygun on November 8, 2009 at 10:04 AM
Simply Bled-out:
Your strawman arguement re minorities is flawed.
At assorted times in our lives, my family and I have been treated by minority doctors. They were competent to excellent.
What is objectionable in the subsections of the PelosiScare bill is the provisions for preference and quotas for minorities. The insistence on Bennetton health providers does not necessarily assure quality health providers.
What’s next? Do we have to include a certain quota of assorted handicapped health-care providers…just to be fair?
What exactly is it that is keeping the young minorities from seeking health-care jobs? Are math and science classes too demanding?
onlineanalyst on November 8, 2009 at 10:07 AM
If this bill is signed into law it will be fought in the courts and repealed later. We’re not going to stand for this and allow our liberty to be stolen by malicious marxists.
BottomLine5 on November 8, 2009 at 10:09 AM
Hopefully, you’re right. But it will probably be fought in the streets, like every other Revolution against tyranny.
ronnyraygun on November 8, 2009 at 10:11 AM
Please forgive me, but I’m going to repeat my point several times in the future and shout it from the highest mountain:
The Democrats now OWN the Health Care system.
I want the word Democrat to pop into peoples’ minds with every aspect of the coming Health Care system.
Waiting for an appointment? Democrats.
Can’t find a doc? Democrats.
Procedure or treatment denied? Democrats.
Booted out of the hospital too soon? Democrats.
Your condition not being handled the way you would like? Democrats.
Billing problems? Democrats.
Hemorrhoids bothering you? Democrats.
justltl on November 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Short-term pessimism, long-term optimism.
True_King on November 8, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Dear Congressvermin or Senator ______:
Congratulations! You and your fellow Democrats are now the proud owners of the new American Health Care system.
Every medical complaint and every negative aspect of peoples’ health care will, from this point forward, be subliminally or overtly associated with you and the Democrat Party.
Burn in Hell and
Have a nice day.
Sincerely,
justltl
justltl on November 8, 2009 at 10:19 AM
Doubt it. The tentacles of this monster will be so far embedded in every aspect of society, it will be like trying to pull up an oak tree with your bare hands.
labrat on November 8, 2009 at 10:20 AM
Pehaps the one redeeming thing about yesterday was reading the posts here. So many clear-thinking, redoubtable and witty patriots. I’m heartened. Thank you, all.
rrpjr on November 8, 2009 at 10:27 AM
…Bureaucrat deciding your too old for treatment – Democrat
labrat on November 8, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Nancy Pelosi! How do you like her now? For all the mockery and ridicule thrown at her by the teabaggers, she GOT IT DONE!
Next step, strip the odious Stupak amendment in committee. At least a few of the eunuchs known as “Blue Dog” Democrats will act like they have a pair, and push this over the top in the Senate.
Obama will sign the bill. Done.
Start liking it.
chumpThreads on November 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM
So happy I can hardly contain myself! Mr. Cao, thank you for showing such courage in standing up to the leaders of your party, it won’t be forgotten!
Typhonsentra on November 8, 2009 at 9:37 AM
Let me guess, you are ready to build walls to keep Americans from fleeing.
artist on November 8, 2009 at 10:33 AM
I know people don’t like it, but I’ve been saying this for months, before stimulus, before cap and trade, etc.
2010 comes too late.
Midas on November 8, 2009 at 10:33 AM
Start liking it.
chumpThreads on November 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM
Dear failed citizen who needs the state to exist, I don’t think you understand what is transpiring.
You will be shocked as this country unravels.
Who will feed you then?
artist on November 8, 2009 at 10:34 AM
2010 comes too late.
Midas on November 8, 2009 at 10:33 AM
And not months late, years late.
artist on November 8, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Is it time for the pitch forks yet????????
1luckydogg on November 8, 2009 at 10:36 AM
Is it still too early to talk about secession yet?
Rebar on November 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM
Is it time for the pitch forks yet????????
1luckydogg on November 8, 2009 at 10:36 AM
We are running very late.
artist on November 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM
What happens when the country doesn’t unravel? What then?
ernesto on November 8, 2009 at 10:39 AM
With a 75-seat majority she got a 5-vote win. Inspiring. Clearly a bill with a promising future.
rrpjr on November 8, 2009 at 10:39 AM
I heard that this bill was going to cost upwards of $2trillion. Don’t worry folks…Obama said he wouldn’t sign a bill that added one dime to the deficit. Of course, the only ones buying that are the morons who voted for him in the first place.
orlandocajun on November 8, 2009 at 10:40 AM
PelosiCare has now become IllusiCare. It’s a chimera wrapped in an albatros inside a delusion.
She’ll still be smiling in defeat in 2010. Let’s give her a big, wide grin.
EMD on November 8, 2009 at 10:41 AM
Time to check that lithium level chump.
labrat on November 8, 2009 at 10:44 AM
What happens when the country doesn’t unravel? What then?
ernesto on November 8, 2009 at 10:39 AM
You’re not paying attention.
artist on November 8, 2009 at 10:44 AM
Bleeds Blue, I’d really like to know why you think I should have to change my health coverage, that was part of a long term career incentive given to me by the military, in order to benefit you. I worked for 33 years and the current plan for retirement is to buy into a civilian version of what I have now. Excellent care under TriCare and Delta Dental for a fraction of the cost of this plan. Why does the majority of Americans have to suffer for a small minority.
God, it makes me miss Welfare. There, we could just let the government soak us in taxes and give the money away. But at least it didn’t require me to deprive one, what one could afford after they’d been raped on their taxes.
I have planned my life and my career for retirement. If you didn’t, bad on ya.
hawkdriver on November 8, 2009 at 10:47 AM
+1
So many chicken littles…..
Grow Fins on November 8, 2009 at 10:47 AM
+1
So many chicken littles…..
Grow Fins on November 8, 2009 at 10:47 AM
-10
So many naive failed citizens.
artist on November 8, 2009 at 10:48 AM
Haven’t looked at the news in a while, I had no idea this happened. God help us.
SG1_Conservative on November 8, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Grow Fins on November 8, 2009 at 10:47 AM
So the f@cking liar and comment faker.
Guess what. My plans changed. I’m going to pay three times as much and at 2.5 percent higher taxes to boot, than what I would have under my retirement benefits. The sky already fell here.
hawkdriver on November 8, 2009 at 10:52 AM
This country started loosing it’s structural integrity about a year ago, when the dumb and the ignorant voted for the first time.
ronnyraygun on November 8, 2009 at 10:52 AM
I need more ammo
flyoverboy on November 8, 2009 at 10:53 AM
This is a country that by almost every measure has had more ’socialist policies’ than are being currently proposed. The debt as a % of GDP has been higher, the tax rate has been higher, we made it through the new deal for crying out loud. How am i supposed to, on the face of it, KNOW that this country is finished??
You’re paranoid.
ernesto on November 8, 2009 at 10:55 AM
The dumb and ignorant have always voted.
ernesto on November 8, 2009 at 10:56 AM
Marx , Lenin and the rest of those boys must be having a good laugh right about now. Wonder where all my Canadian friends will go for health care now?
flyoverboy on November 8, 2009 at 10:57 AM
You’re right… the Clinton years were a disaster too.
ronnyraygun on November 8, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Fins, ernesto, bleeds blue or some other supporter of this bill explain to me why I have to change my plans and pay more because of you?
hawkdriver on November 8, 2009 at 11:01 AM
We have a president who referred to the tea partiers as extremists last night. This man is supposed to represent all of America. He doesnt. Obama has done nothing but pass money to his banking/union/acorn cronies. Someone please show me one single piece of legislation that doesnt?
Now that this monstrosity has passed more people will be able to see whats in the bill. It will be talked about and rehashed over and over again in the news. Every detail will be brought out and scrutinized. Washington will feel a populist backlash soon enough.
I suggest the Republicans and Conservative representatives and their spox ppl systematically show exactly how this bill will affect each and every American citizen in their wallets. Americans dont pay attention to much until it hurts them financially. This bill does that in spades.
canditaylor68 on November 8, 2009 at 11:02 AM
I miss Clinton
I miss Bush
anyone but the mofo in charge.
nyx on November 8, 2009 at 11:03 AM
You’re both idiots, the country won’t unravel, at least not quickly. However, since every part of our lives relates to healthcare
weidiot congressmen have voted for invasive government control of nearly every aspect of our lives. The country won’t collapse, but her citizens will slowly lose their liberties.SG1_Conservative on November 8, 2009 at 11:03 AM
and we survived. America will make it through this. This talk of unraveling, of pitchforks and secession, it’s paranoid delusion.
ernesto on November 8, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Explain why I have to change my plans.
hawkdriver on November 8, 2009 at 11:06 AM
I’m not a fan of this bill. If it were up to me the plan would look a lot more like the GOP plan. My issue is with people who think this bill is the death knell for America. It’s not. It’s a progressive piece of legislation, guaranteed to provide lots of unintended consequences, but america killing it is not.
ernesto on November 8, 2009 at 11:08 AM
According to Bleeds Blue, Grow Fins, crr6, simplesimon and all the other resident trolls, government is your God now. Withhold your worship at your own peril. If you need pointers, just read their posts and watch how reverently they hold government as their master, and the obsequiousness with which they praise Obama. Life is so much easier when you banish all independent thought from your mind, and allow someone in authority make your decisions for you, because they know best how your life should be lived.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Left Coast Right Mind on November 8, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Not like they did this last Presidential election
CWforFreedom on November 8, 2009 at 11:09 AM
You will get to pay for it and suffer through its real ramifications— far more than I- if it passes the Senate.
Sadly my kids will as well. But you sit back and act that way. Enjoy . /
CWforFreedom on November 8, 2009 at 11:11 AM
To make a WWII analogy: Congress has now authorized the immediate building of 10,000 Spruce Gooses to bomb Germany and demolish the Nazis. Elitist fantasies that sound great, but lack underlying engineering skill, have many modes of failure.
donbury on November 8, 2009 at 11:12 AM
The inability of the CiC to protect American citizens from terrorist attacks on protected military bases sure speaks volumes. His and Bush’s inept administrations have rendered the fabric of this nation ragged.
We will see more. Compiled with rampant unemployment, the polling doesnt lie. America is waking up after spending the night with Obama suffering a killer hangover. If you think the protests during Bush’s administration were bad, just wait and see what 2010 and 2012 brings.
canditaylor68 on November 8, 2009 at 11:13 AM
1. Obama campaigned for this job
2. Bush is not President
CWforFreedom on November 8, 2009 at 11:15 AM
You all talk as if the consequences were insignificant.
My plan that I served 33 years to rate, through TriCare and Delta Dental would have cost combined, 4200 a year for premium coverage. This will cost me based on the last read, 17,200 a year. 13,000 dollars more.
I worked for the plan I wanted. I stayed in the military even after the retiree plan changed to a payer system with TC and DD because they were damn good deals. The government made a promise and this breaks that promise.
hawkdriver on November 8, 2009 at 11:16 AM
What happened the last time we had a severe economic crisis and hobbled the economy with tons of governmental intervention?
Hint: It was called World War II and it Ended with the use of Nuclear weaponry.
What happens if History REPEATS itself and the next World War BEGINS with the use of Nuclear Weaponry?
Chainsaw56 on November 8, 2009 at 11:16 AM
Bush unlocked the door for Obama with TARP. Blame is laid where it needs to be.
canditaylor68 on November 8, 2009 at 11:17 AM
What was with the soon to be unemployed RINO that went over to the dark side….
JIMV on November 8, 2009 at 11:18 AM
I see your point, I was just trying to point out that barring said cataclysmic event, the country will survive but with her Constitution rendered meaningless and her citizens captive to a massive government bureaucracy.
SG1_Conservative on November 8, 2009 at 11:21 AM
not acceptable
flyoverboy on November 8, 2009 at 11:26 AM
Was TARP bad? YES, I doubt you’ll find a conservative who’ll say otherwise. However…
1. Bush did not set out to “remake” America
2. Bush is no longer President and has no power
3. Bush spent money very poorly and was hustled by left-leaning advisers into some bad decisions, but the One and his congress are working hard to ensure that we will now work for the government
4. Bush dramatically increased our deficit, and this is bad, but Obama quadrupled down on that increase.
5. Bamster has been in charge for nearly a year with a fully compliant Congress and Court, for that reason alone the “Bush’s fault” excuse holds no water.
SG1_Conservative on November 8, 2009 at 11:28 AM
I understand, your point is that this is an incremental destruction of our liberties, and that seems to be by design.
I’m just pointing out that there are a lot of of disturbing parallels at work here that are similar to the great depression lead up to WWII.
Chainsaw56 on November 8, 2009 at 11:29 AM
Agreed.
SG1_Conservative on November 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM
11:59pm- United States of America
12:00am-United Socialist States of Amerika
portlandon on November 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM
They will still go to the US, or maybe follow the Americans going to India or other coutries to get healthcare they cannot afford here!
mycowardice on November 8, 2009 at 11:36 AM
There is no line in the sand that we won’t back away from. The beach is full of lines in the sand that have been abandoned, thus the creep of statism and the erosion of liberty continues unabated.
Everybody BUY another box of ammo if sitting on a case of lead and brass makes you sleep better at night.
Doesn’t stop the DOERS from doing those things that make you buy more ammo, does it?
Imagine the best armed flock of sheep in the history of the world, yet still being herded by the few, off to slaughter.
OneEyedJack on November 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Absolutely, just look at the number of Hitler-esque little tyrants (Kim and Mahmoud are just two examples) actively seeking nuclear weapons and their delivery systems. There are a lot of disturbing parallels with history and not just WWII. The fall of the Roman empire was similar in many respect. Not saying that the US is an empire by any means, but before the Roman empire fell its citizens and leaders had become complacent, greedy, and corrupt, much like over half of our Congress. I can only hope that it never comes to that, but I genuinely fear for my generation(I’m 24 and I’m going to bear the brunt of these lovely new
taxessocial programs), but for the future generations who will not know freedom if Obama has his way.SG1_Conservative on November 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM
I agree with you completely. Obama owns all of that and more.
canditaylor68 on November 8, 2009 at 11:40 AM
THERE WILL BE NO DOCTORS!
stenwin77 on November 8, 2009 at 11:41 AM
They will all be moving to — CANADA!
mycowardice on November 8, 2009 at 11:42 AM
I would agree – whether incremental or all at once, this kind of tyranny cannot stand.
People need to start thinking creatively about ways of stopping this.
Consider that we have an advantage of the perspective of history – we’ve all seen this movie before and know what they will do.
Knowing that gives us a great advantage that people facing the dark storm of Statism in the past didn’t have.
So the question becomes, what do we do with that knowledge?
Chainsaw56 on November 8, 2009 at 11:45 AM
He said it best:
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
Ronald Reagan
40th president of US (1911 – 2004)
SG1_Conservative on November 8, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Venezuela currently has record unemployment, record inflation, food shortages and power shortages.
But the country isn’t unraveling because Dear Leader Chavez has told them, through the government controlled press because he’s outlawed all opposition media, that everything is going according to plan as part of the “change” for a better tomorrow.
Remember, comrade, tomorrow will always be better.
Skywise on November 8, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Boehner counting RINO chickens before they hatch…
“Future of the Party” aye aye
Phew, that crow’s should leave a foul taste in the wannabe Speaker’s maw!
“Let’s Roll”
On Watch on November 8, 2009 at 11:47 AM
The new oath of office for elected Democratic “representatives”…
************** *****
I _____________(state Democrat name) do solemnly swear, to completely subjugate the American subjects of my district, to the devices and designs of the Democratic party leadership, as a means to further pursue the onerous and neverending cause, of the statist liberal agenda we hold dear, no matter the electoral outcome. I promise to do this of my own free will, as a mechanism to prevent the expression of the free will of the people whom this Congress was formerly sworn to represent. So help me, the Democratic Party.
Welcome to the brother and sisterhood of tyranny.
ted c on November 8, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Watch unemployment start shooting up and/or no rehiring. I read somewhere on a link that they are going to add 800,000 to the unemployment rolls in Feb. to correct for their over adjustment in the BLS birth/death model for businesses. That means that U3 unemployment is about 10.8% right now before the over adjustments they did reducing the workforce participation percentages.
trollkiller on November 8, 2009 at 11:48 AM
Yes that generation will be the first to suffer. But that would include anyone born between 1946-1964, you know those baby boomers/hippies! Not all of us were a)hippies or b)maintained that “groovy, turned on and tuned out” attitude.
As you’re laughing young lady, I pray that it’s not your parents or grandparents that are suffering because of rationing and the fact that their value is no longer cost effective. I pray that the day you become part of the elderly demographic that you don’t have to suffer the indignity of no care, reduced care and reduced value.
Part of the demographics of those who voted in this exemplary hope-n-change are the 66% of 18-29 year olds who voted, many first time voters. You know those who have been pampered and spoiled by their hippie era parents?
Take a look at the celebrity mouthpieces who are extolling the virtues of the liberal mindset, unless they’re over 45 they don’t belong to my generation.
If this nightmare does indeed become reality, know that one day the young people won’t be laughing at you as you dribble and wheeze, because that’s all they will have known and they will no longer care.
laugh away child, laugh away!
In the words of the late Jim Morrison: Whoever controls the media, controls the mind. remember that
and in the words of the late, great Thomas Jefferson: Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.
ladyhawke53 on November 8, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Yes, I would agree – we have two very unsettling data points as to where we are headed.
Instead of edged weapons of the fall of Rome era and conventional explosive weapons of WWII we have Nuclear weapons.
We cannot afford to repeat those past mistakes.
Chainsaw56 on November 8, 2009 at 11:53 AM
If you take the reduction of work force participation into account U3 is probably over 11% already if an apples to apples comparison is made with the Bush era.
This will be a heavy blow to those seeking a job and really willing to work. Business owners and managers will be reluctant to hire given the new higher levels of taxataion and the reduction in demand as the bureaucracy and medical providers absorb more of GDP.
trollkiller on November 8, 2009 at 11:53 AM
Did you write something similar for all the Republicans can voted for Medicare part D?
mycowardice on November 8, 2009 at 11:54 AM
mycowardice on November 8, 2009 at 11:55 AM
The markets should be interesting…expect insurance stocks to take a big dive and watch more money move from the economy to things protected from government.
JIMV on November 8, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Ernie,
America has always been a unique country. It was built on the principle of individual liberty and freedom. Government was there as a necessary evil and severely limited.
Forcing people to buy a product with the threat of jail time as punishment, goes against everything this country stands/stood for. It’s one thing to raise taxes. It’s one thing to increase spending. That’s just a level of taxation that ebbs and flows.
It’s a whole other when the government starts dictating to people what they MUST purchase. If you can’t see why this is the death knell of America, you’re either stupid or not paying attention.
angryed on November 8, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Gee, the ‘Hope’ for that ‘Change’ sounds real familiar, doesn’t it?
Chainsaw56 on November 8, 2009 at 11:58 AM
a> We need to get organized. The socialists are out fundraising and out maneuvering us. We need our own conservative voices like “Moveon.org”, we need more conservative equivalents like “organize for America” to get the messasge out. We’ve already got some good foundations here (Fox news, HotAir, Rush, etc) but we need to coordinate the message as well as Rahm’s doing with the DNC.
b> We need political leadership capable of LEADING. McCain and the neocons still seem to have control of the party and that has to stop. We need tactical leadership now more than ever before but the GOP seems to be content to play political games that are good for the leaders of the GOP rather than promote their ideology.
c> We need to take back education and start getting conservative ideologies back into the schools. We can start with stopping the nanny-stating of the schools and “zero tolerance” policies which turn schools into nothing more than socialist state baby sitters with discovery time rather than centers of education. Self-reliance, self-growth and competition is long a thing of the past in schools… and that’s not unintentional.
Skywise on November 8, 2009 at 11:58 AM
I think the point was that the most outspoken proponents of the Bamster are the old hippies who now control the MSM. People like Whoopi, Oprah, Letterman, Stewart, etc. Young people have traditionally voted, much to my chagrin as I am 24 myself, liberal. But they generally do so because of the aforementioned celebutards, along with the multitude of musical and acting “talents” who are constantly barraging us with their political views. And despite the hype turnout for the 2008 election, as I recall hearing, was not significantly greater than usual.
SG1_Conservative on November 8, 2009 at 11:58 AM
When is the march on Washington scheduled for?
JoeAvg on November 8, 2009 at 11:59 AM
All this does is further retrench small and large business as both brace for the onslaught.
How many of you believe, as I, that every small-business owner is on his or her PC today beginning to compose the company memo that the company will be terminating its health plan because the payroll tax is the more competitive route to go?
BuckeyeSam on November 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM
The similarities weren’t lost on me. Though I admit I didn’t realize it until recently.
Let me be clear. Obama and Pelosi are running the Chavez, Castro playbook. Reid isn’t, which is why he’s lost in the current party.
Skywise on November 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM
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