Open thread: PelosiCare vote coming tonight; Update: 35 Dems oppose? Update: Stupak amendment passes; Update: Bill passes, 220-215, one GOPer votes yes
posted at 5:45 pm on November 7, 2009 by Allahpundit
Twitter’s hopping with rumors about vote-wrangling and backroom deals so I figured you guys could use a thread to exchange information. Just within the past half hour, Politico’s heard whispers from the Democratic leadership that they’ve reached 218. Debate on Stupak’s amendment to strip abortion funding from the bill is coming up, followed by a vote on that and then — sometime between nine and eleven p.m. — the big vote on PelosiCare itself. If you’re watching this all play out on C-SPAN (either on TV or online), keep your eye on Republicans demanding a promise from Pelosi that if Stupak’s amendment passes, it won’t later be dropped in the conference committee with the Senate. The Democrats have been coy about that thus far.
Updates will appear below as warranted. In the meantime, here’s Paul Ryan trying to rally the troops, apparently to no avail. Exit question via Karl: Should the GOP vote “present” on Stupak’s amendment instead of voting for it? Think strategically.
Update: The office of the GOP whip says 33 Democrats will vote no. 41 is the magic number.
Update: If you’re looking for reasons to hope, remember that Pelosi also thought she had 218 when TARP first came to the House floor for a vote last year. That went down in flames, only to be resuscitated a week later.
Update: Here’s a fun thought: What if the bill passes 218-217 … and Bill Owens casts the deciding vote? Dude.
Update: Locker-room pep talk, Obama style:
In listing their legislation they have passed to this point, the president told them, “You did this without any help from the other side,” complaining Republicans have been “saying ‘no,’ stopping progress, gumming up the works was their preferred strategy.”
“Are we going to stop now, or push forward?” Obama asked.
“Push forward,” a dozen or so Democrats shouted back.
“I’m absolutely confident we’ll get this thing done,” Obama told the group. “And when I’m in the Rose Garden signing a piece of legislation to give health care to all Americans, we’ll look back and say that was our finest moment.”
Update: Cantor says there are 35 Democratic no’s. It’ll be razor thin.
Update: At 10 p.m. ET, the vote on Stupak’s anti-abortion amendment is finally on. Stand by. As I write this, it’s 73/90 against passage.
Update: The vote on the amendment is 236/190 as I write this, which is bad news. Not only is there no guarantee that the amendment will survive the conference committee with the Senate (or a Supreme Court challenge, natch), but this gives pro-life Blue Dogs the cover they need to vote for the final bill. It’s going to pass. Sigh.
Update: A smart minority party would have voted present and made the Dems choke on it. Alas, this is our minority party:
“We believe in the sanctity of life, and the Stupak-Pitts Amendment addresses a moral issue of the utmost concern. It will limit abortion in the United States. Because of this, while we strongly and deeply oppose the underlying bill, we decided to stand with Life and support Stupak-Pitts.
“The danger of this bill passing without critical pro-life language was too great a risk to do otherwise. Indeed, a number of Democrat supporters of Stupak-Pitts had privately indicated to many of our colleagues that all they needed for “cover” was a vote, and they would support final passage even if the amendment failed.
“To be clear, the Stupak-Pitts Amendment’s passage is the right thing to do. We believe you just don’t play politics with life.
“When this bill is conferenced with the Senate, the pro-life majority in the House of Representatives must ensure that this important amendment is in the final legislation. If it does not, this same strong majority must defeat the bill.”
Update: It’s 10:45 ET and it looks like the final vote is coming within the next 15 minutes. I held out hope this morning that we might get a humpbot cameo tonight, but it looks like we’re in for an appearance by the melting bunny of death instead. Heart-ache.
Update: My prediction for the final vote, as of 10:52: 224-211.
Update: It was closer than I thought: 220-215, 39 Dems voting no and a solitary Republican — Joe Cao, who replaced “Dollar Bill” Jefferson in a blue district in Louisiana — voting yes. Take heart, righties: Reid is incompetent, which makes the likelihood of 60 votes in the Senate, especially after a vote this narrow, very slim indeed.
But for now, we grieve.
Chocolate Bunny Kill
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Kill. The. Bill. By whatever means possible.
akaag on November 7, 2009 at 5:48 PM
No one should jump to any conclusions.
BL@KBIRD on November 7, 2009 at 5:48 PM
The House will pass the
legislationshackles tonight.I do hold the GOP responsible for sitting on their a**es, spending way too much, and not fighting back against the left as much as the left fights us.
Leadership, not empty words.
madmonkphotog on November 7, 2009 at 5:49 PM
No Allah, I will think with reference to my basic principles. All congressmen who still value liberty, individual rights and the Constitution need to vote NO on anything having to do with this fascistic bill.
Kalapana on November 7, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Nuclear option here we come.
True_King on November 7, 2009 at 5:50 PM
The Won showed up on The Hill today for a get it done talk. He would not have come if they didn’t have the votes. Obama saves the day!
Caper29 on November 7, 2009 at 5:50 PM
I was watching the debate for awhile and my blood pressure went up.
becki51758 on November 7, 2009 at 5:50 PM
KILL THE BILL. We are watching, Blue Dogs.
Philly on November 7, 2009 at 5:50 PM
The country is on life-support.
artist on November 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Cantor says there are at least 32 Democrat NO votes on the bill. If that is the case, then Pelosi must have done gangbusters among the 25-30 remaining undecided members. The opposition only needed 8-10 of those undecided votes to kill this.
Mayhem on November 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
KILL THE BILL!!!
Seven Percent Solution on November 7, 2009 at 5:53 PM
I figure this is win/win. If Americans stop this horror, America wins. If the lefts elites force this mess on us, they get voted out next year, the mess is stopped or not funded, and America wins.
Te Congress is acting at their own peril. America has said no…LOUDLY, and the egomaniacs on the Hill ignore us all.
There is nothing we can do as they ignore calls, ignore FAXs, ignore personal requests, and in general, treat their masters like doddering fools. What we can do is fire these hacks…Next year will be very interesting. How happy will voters be when the government begins stealing money and screwing with existing plas while providing nothing until 2014……
JIMV on November 7, 2009 at 5:53 PM
Nothing can be done about it now.
It will pass tonight, the Senate will use the nuke option to pass it on their side, then it will pass conference and become law upon Obama’s signature.
They have the votes to pass it if they want to use all their options.
There is no stopping this.
Elections have consequences.
tatersalad on November 7, 2009 at 5:54 PM
I watched him leave in a big hurry. He did not look happy.
Rather snit ridden.
katy the mean old lady on November 7, 2009 at 5:55 PM
They just want to go home and really do not care about this Nation. Most will vote and hope the Senate kills it.
May they all have a miserable home coming and a lousy Christmas, if it passes. Sounds like a bluff to get the “BIG MO”.
Col.John Wm. Reed on November 7, 2009 at 5:55 PM
Yep. That’s what they said about the Chicago Olympics bid too.
IrishEi on November 7, 2009 at 5:55 PM
oh hell let them have it.
If the bill is all conservatives fear, it will be a behometh they can’t birth.
It’s an overreach.
Imprisonment for the unwilling?
C’mon..
seesalrun on November 7, 2009 at 5:56 PM
Then again I was wrong on Copenhagen. :-)
Hope you’re right!
Caper29 on November 7, 2009 at 5:56 PM
Frankly it wouldn’t surprise me if they passed the Bill. However, if they do it, the Dems will lose a metric crapload of seats in MidTerm Elections.
And eventually I’ll be out of a job. Well done, stupid government people.
mjk on November 7, 2009 at 5:57 PM
Only the nations 20% progressives wanted this ‘consequence’. The rest most assuredly did not vote for this mess and most of them are shuddering in horror today.
God help anyone with either money or existing good care for they will be the ones who lose today.
JIMV on November 7, 2009 at 5:57 PM
Yeah, they said that about the Olympic bid as well.
How’d that work out?
David2.0 on November 7, 2009 at 5:57 PM
I know, I know. But are they too stupid (arrogant) to make the same mistake twice?
Why open yourself up to the ridicule afterward?
Caper29 on November 7, 2009 at 5:57 PM
Voting no on Stupak’s amendment won’t stop these people. For all they know the leadership will strip it out of the final bill anyway and apparently the Democrats are willing to take that chance. So what would voting no accomplish?
Terrye on November 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM
if this passes, Democrats will have to guarantee jobs for all, and LOL on that.
mdetlh on November 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM
Pray God this will go just as well for Barry as the Olympics jaunt did.
starboardhelm on November 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM
There will be at least one good state that tells the feds to piss off.
I call that state, home.
artist on November 7, 2009 at 5:59 PM
The “crown jewel of socialism” must not pass. Good Lord, look at the boondoggle of the swine flu vaccine and cash for clunkers. America wake the hell up. This is some serious crap that is being rammed down our throats.
cubachi on November 7, 2009 at 6:00 PM
Miracles do happen….we sure need one. Please.
darlajune on November 7, 2009 at 6:00 PM
So do VOTES. We will have long memories about the votes cast tonight. Count on it.
labwriter on November 7, 2009 at 6:01 PM
Only the nations 20% progressives wanted this ‘consequence’. The rest most assuredly did not vote for this mess and most of them are shuddering in horror today.
God help anyone with either money or existing good care for they will be the ones who lose today.
JIMV on November 7, 2009 at 5:57 PM
True, but Obama sure wasn’t shy about saying what he wanted to do as Pres….it’s not like he was a closet Marxist…it was right out there for all to see….most may not have thought it would happen, but he certainly told them it would.
tatersalad on November 7, 2009 at 6:01 PM
NY23 to be the deciding factor.
deidre on November 7, 2009 at 6:04 PM
If hey had the votes he would have gone to camp David earlier.
I really hope this fails. COME ON GOP VOTE NO ON STUPAK!
dogsoldier on November 7, 2009 at 6:04 PM
So do VOTES. We will have long memories about the votes cast tonight. Count on it.
labwriter on November 7, 2009 at 6:01 PM
I hope so, but once this passes, it’s over…no getting it back. If one doubts that, just look at what happens when you try to ‘reform’ social security…
Once these animals get their claws in your life, they don’t retract them….they only sink them in deeper.
tatersalad on November 7, 2009 at 6:04 PM
We are so screwed. This won’t make a hill of beans difference in the midterm elections. The idiots who voted the Democrats in are the ones who wanted this crap. They are going to vote them back in in 2010.
We have reached the point where the majority can vote themselves free money. Until the whole bloated system collapses, there won’t be any thing we can do about it.
Maybe I’m just frustrated, but I don’t see any thing good coming of this.
Sgtmack on November 7, 2009 at 6:05 PM
I think we should all be appalled and disgusted that this is being rushed through in this manner without a single GOP vote. Bribe the hell out of the wobbly votes and get it through with a bare minimum on a Saturday night before anybody changes their minds.
highhopes on November 7, 2009 at 6:06 PM
I watched quite a bit of the discussions earlier today, any argument for the bill was based on emotional guilt, and socialistic ideas without dealing or discussing any facts… of the increase of taxes for everyone.
Sad…
WhoU4 on November 7, 2009 at 6:07 PM
The only way this gets walked back is in 2010 and 2012. After that, we’ll be all in on the welfare state, and that never gets walked back, you’re right. I mean, never until all the money’s gone. Then things go south real quickly.
Rational Thought on November 7, 2009 at 6:07 PM
2010 will be the end of many Democrats who thought they would make Congress their career.
Lemmings!
yoda on November 7, 2009 at 6:07 PM
So what? Even if she does promise to keep it, I wouldn’t put it past her to drop it anyway.
KILL IT.
NoFanofLibs on November 7, 2009 at 6:08 PM
Once a dem votes for the bill can they change their vote after going home to pitch forks?
farright on November 7, 2009 at 6:08 PM
Not Gonna Happen.
Guardian on November 7, 2009 at 6:08 PM
Simulcast: Democrats Announce Government Health Care Bill, Citizen Announces Misery of Government Vaccine Program http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/11/simulcast-democrats-announce-government.html
And
Spot the Photo Differences (Obamacare edition): http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/11/spot-six-photo-differences-puzzle.html
Mervis Winter on November 7, 2009 at 6:10 PM
Let’s hope that this vote turns out the same.
farright on November 7, 2009 at 6:10 PM
2010 Who wants to join the 17.5% unemployed in this country? That’s the real question if you get VOTED out of office what are you going to do for your own bread and butter in this economy?
Dr Evil on November 7, 2009 at 6:11 PM
KILL THE BILL.
Of course what’s the use… we have a nanny state to tell us what to think. We don’t have a representative democracy anymore.
Skywise on November 7, 2009 at 6:12 PM
The Real Picture of Employment in America: 17.5% Unemployed or Underemployed
Let them all be looking for work – like the rest of Americans they are trying to skrew over right now.
Dr Evil on November 7, 2009 at 6:13 PM
wikipedia
Explain to me how the Speaker of the House can “bribe” members of Congress to get this bill passed, without breaking the law. Is Congress exempt from bribery charges?
huckleberryfriend on November 7, 2009 at 6:13 PM
I think it is. So long as they can figure out a way to gloss over the federal funding of abortions then there will be a vote and the Dems will bribe enough votes to get to 218.
highhopes on November 7, 2009 at 6:13 PM
I figure it passes and the dollar begins tanking even faster than it is now. Anybody overseas with half a brain realizes this is the beginning of the end for the USA.
trigon on November 7, 2009 at 6:13 PM
I hope they all burn in he’ll if this passes or not. My blood is boiling over here. This country makes me sick. It honestly does.
Ghoul aid on November 7, 2009 at 6:14 PM
If this bill passes, Monday will be the beginning of a wave of lay-offs. Brace yourselves for more unemployment.
cubachi on November 7, 2009 at 6:14 PM
IT would actually be good for the opposition party the BACKLASH to this naked power grab by the Progressives will be a sight to behold.
Dr Evil on November 7, 2009 at 6:14 PM
If that’s the case, then there’d be no Governor-elect Christie in New Jersey.
I think the Dems know they’re finished in 2010. At least in the House. Which is all that’s needed by the GOP to effectively stop the rest of Obama’s agenda. This is their last hurrah and they figure what the hell, might as well ram through the one thing they’ve desperately trying to get passed for decades.
Doughboy on November 7, 2009 at 6:15 PM
2010 The Republicans have to understand the mood only Conservatives get tagged to run.
Dr Evil on November 7, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Pork projects inserted in bills for their districts. Promises of campaign contributions and workers for their elections.
Wethal on November 7, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Isn’t Obama’s puppet-master Soros betting for this to happen ?
macncheez on November 7, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Other than the obvious abortion these people are trying to force on us tonight, what we are also watching is the end of Pelosi’s Speakership. Right off the cliff baby, she’s done. That’s the only silver lining I see.
elduende on November 7, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Scozzafava would have voted for it as well. It’s better Owens votes for it under Dem tag than a Republican crossing over and giving them faux bipartisanship.
Enoxo on November 7, 2009 at 6:16 PM
If hey had the votes he would have gone to camp David earlier.
I really hope this fails. COME ON GOP VOTE NO ON STUPAK!
dogsoldier on November 7, 2009 at 6:04 PM
katy the mean old lady on November 7, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Nancy Pelosi is a mentally ill, power mad, control freak who should be even more heavily medicated and locked away in a mental asylum with others with delusions of royal queenhood. They could put her right next to the boy cipher who thinks he is emperor.
MB4 on November 7, 2009 at 6:17 PM
Explain to me how the Speaker of the House can “bribe” members of Congress to get this bill passed, without breaking the law. Is Congress exempt from bribery charges?
huckleberryfriend on November 7, 2009 at 6:13 PM
Pork projects inserted in bills for their districts. Promises of campaign contributions and workers for their elections.
Wethal on November 7, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Don’t forget about the BILLIONS of stimulus money that will be doled out in the summer of 2010….gee, I wonder which districts are going to get the lion’s share of this????
tatersalad on November 7, 2009 at 6:17 PM
I seriously doubt it. After the RNC boosted her up and she was derided as a RINO, she wasn’t about to kneecap the party in her very first vote, especially one as enormous as this.
Allahpundit on November 7, 2009 at 6:17 PM
It would be Blame Palin. Since Dede would not have voted for it. Or at least that’s what Dede will say as payback.
Wethal on November 7, 2009 at 6:17 PM
Quid pro quo is a time-honored way of politics. It isn’t bribery so long as Pelosi isn’t out there openly playing Deal or No Deal for votes- i.e. “can I have you vote for 200K? No? What if I were to offer you 300K, a chairmanship, and a bridge project for your district…”
This stuff goes on but behind the scenes.
highhopes on November 7, 2009 at 6:18 PM
Don’t even joke about that, AP. Although there would be one positive outcome if that nightmarish scenario occurred. The GOP wouldn’t dare nominate or endorse a single “moderate” Republican for the 2010 midterms.
Doughboy on November 7, 2009 at 6:18 PM
Dede would have voted for it.
highhopes on November 7, 2009 at 6:18 PM
Dedo owns everything Owen does.
the_nile on November 7, 2009 at 6:19 PM
There were people who similarly said it would be good for BHO to be elected because it might be like Carter-Reagan all over again. I think these ideas are both a form of denial. The harm this bill will do to our way of life will be too longlasting.
txmomof6 on November 7, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Uh, she DID kneecap the party when she endorsed the Democrat for the House seat. She has no loyalty to anyone but herself(and a lot of sugary foods apparently).
Doughboy on November 7, 2009 at 6:20 PM
So true, she does :)
deidre on November 7, 2009 at 6:20 PM
TCOT: The New York Times Reports President Obama Acknowledged Today That He and Bill Owens Pulled a Health Care Fast One on the Voters in NY-23
Rae on November 7, 2009 at 6:20 PM
Ed, Just got home from work…you know the thing that taxpayers do….thanks for the open thread. TARP went down the first time because Pelosi got lazy and forgot to “pre-count” her votes, something I doubt she will do with this bill—her “shining glory” that will devastate this economy.
What makes me want to regurgetate is listening to the liberals in the house step up to say “this is history we are doing for the all of you”. Historically fornicating every American.
Rovin on November 7, 2009 at 6:20 PM
If Owens is the deciding vote, I blame the establishment GOP.
cubachi on November 7, 2009 at 6:21 PM
So we seem to be in damage control mode now…
a> How do we stop this in the Senate? Sure we’re more “minority friendly” there but Obama has played hardball dirty tactics all the way. They’ll keep pushing this here too because their lobbyist friends demand it.
Then, barring THAT, how do we regain control of congress to repeal this monster and get our country back? Because this will assuredly mean the destruction of ALL of our liberties.
Skywise on November 7, 2009 at 6:21 PM
No, the Dems know once an entitlement program is in place, it never goes away, but can be expanded to cost more and more and cover more and more, and there’s always plenty of hard luck stories to justify that. See Medicaid and S-CHIP.
Big deficits or big tax increases.
Wethal on November 7, 2009 at 6:21 PM
I wonder if the phones are ringing in the Capital building yet…?
Seven Percent Solution on November 7, 2009 at 6:22 PM
I take the opposite position. Any newly elected Congressman isn’t going to be the deciding vote against a sweeping bill that still has to be married up with the Senate and go through the whole reconciliation process. It’s just too much arrogance for somebody still in awe of the fact that they are in the US Congress days after being elected.
highhopes on November 7, 2009 at 6:22 PM
Yeah… that regular John Bircher DeDe Scuzzballafava. I heard she was secretly planning one of those crazy teabagging rallies.
She was a northeastern Republican. The only difference was this time they made the mistake of switching parties before getting elected.
tetriskid on November 7, 2009 at 6:22 PM
If Owens is the deciding vote, I blame the establishment GOP.
cubachi on November 7, 2009 at 6:21 PM
I wouldn’t get carried away with this….if Hoffman had been elected, Pelosi and Rham would have ‘found’ another vote somewhere else instead of giving them the ok to vote against it…
tatersalad on November 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM
If this is indeed a fact, the folks of NY 23 should begin impeachment proceedings post haste.
Rovin on November 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM
Maybe this is what it takes to wake up the rest of America. It’s taken a year for the MSM to finally start seeing this idiot for what he is.
Don’t get me wrong I want this thing killed tonight but the showdown is and always has been the Senate.
gophergirl on November 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM
Actually it has. Welfare for instance, which Clinton cut back. It just isn’t normally tried.
God help me I will personally take grab the ball and do it before I let my country be sold out to these scum sucking socialists.
Skywise on November 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM
If slavery can be repealed…
… this can.
Seven Percent Solution on November 7, 2009 at 6:24 PM
Only the House can impeach. And there is no recall of federal officeholders.
Wethal on November 7, 2009 at 6:24 PM
I wonder if Pelozi will still be smiling once she is headed to the unemployment line…..
BigMike252 on November 7, 2009 at 6:24 PM
They just would’ve bribed someone else.
Lou Budvis on November 7, 2009 at 6:24 PM
Ochlocracy FTW. I mean, really FTW.
OldEnglish on November 7, 2009 at 6:25 PM
I emailed my radical socialist mother effer. It’s pointless other than to point out that such sweeping legislation should not come down to backroom deals within one party an not a single vote from the other party. Pointless but makes me feel I’ve done what I can do when you have a corrupt rat bastard traitor in Congress who will only leave toes up or under indictment (a slight possibility).
highhopes on November 7, 2009 at 6:25 PM
Good point. But Porkulus undid some of Clinton’s reforms.
Wethal on November 7, 2009 at 6:25 PM
I agree – I think they know it’s going to be a bloodbath.
I would even be surprised that when the final bill comes back to the house it passes. A lot of time will have gone by between now and what February/March. That’s a lot of angry citizen calls.
gophergirl on November 7, 2009 at 6:26 PM
Won’t be any fun for Owens next year.
Schadenfreude on November 7, 2009 at 6:26 PM
Lmao. BL@KBIRD ftw.
nickj116 on November 7, 2009 at 6:26 PM
I think recall depends on the state but this is all “stupid talk.” It is pointless because it will never happen.
highhopes on November 7, 2009 at 6:27 PM
Correction: Thank you Allah for the open thread.
This truly is an historic (insert adjective)
Rovin on November 7, 2009 at 6:27 PM
My teenage son just told me this was unconstitutional. I told him yes I know. He said they can’t do this. I said watch them. It’s sad when he knows more about the constitution then these idiots in Congress.
I think if this passes, it will go nucelar in the Senate.
This sucks big time. We need this bill dead. Praying hard.
Brat4life on November 7, 2009 at 6:28 PM
The person that is #218 will be a Democrat that will be thrown under the bus in 2010 by Pelosi.
He won’t know it tonight, but she does.
Owens would be a good candidate for that role.
Bank on it.
tatersalad on November 7, 2009 at 6:28 PM
Nope. Jon Henke is actually right about this. The RNC & NRCC are to blame for this. They funded the opposition candidate… that could even be looked at as fraud.
How many people donated money only to have it funneled to a extreme leftist?
tetriskid on November 7, 2009 at 6:28 PM
Queen Pelosi is slithering in …
Mark Boabaca on November 7, 2009 at 6:29 PM
“This is it.” Well, fortunately not quite, but horrible enough for now…
karlant on November 7, 2009 at 6:29 PM
Once the Democrats ram this bill through there is nothing that can be done about it – even if they lose in 2010, and the GOP reverses these legislations (what/how exactly are they going to do to reverse this crap ?), Obama will veto it.
Right now, the only thing that worries Democrats is the unemployment rate – even if it marginally improves, they have a pretty good chance of getting the majority.
This whole “Blue Dog” nonsense is nothing more than these idiots maquerading as responsible pols who fought till the end to stop Obama…. if enough people are fooled by this kabuki theater, most of them will be re-elected.
This vote will most definitely cement the progressive/communist/socialist victory over conservatives. This is it.
But not to worry, David Brooks will show the way forward in pretending how this is still a two party country.
RIP America – Time of Death : started somewhere after FDR was elected.
Cause of Death: BIG FAT SOCIALIST WEASELS
nagee76 on November 7, 2009 at 6:29 PM
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