Jail time for not buying coverage?

posted at 9:11 am on November 7, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

I wonder if Nancy Pelosi tried out her “we won the election” argument on freshman Democrats in Congressional districts carried by John McCain in 2008?  If so, she’s already lost half of them, according to USA Today.  Seven of the twelve freshman from conservative districts have announced their opposition to the Pelosi version of ObamaCare, scheduled for a vote this weekend:

There are a dozen first-term Democrats representing districts that Republican presidential nominee John McCain won last year. So far, six have announced that they will vote against their party’s health care bill.

Update, 5:43 p.m. ET: Now there are seven. The New York Daily News has just published a statement from hometown Rep. Michael McMahon, D-N.Y. He’s in the no column. “I believe the net negatives of this bill outweight the positive effects,” McMahon says.

Five of those announcements came today. All of the lawmakers who announced opposition cited concerns about the price tag of the legislation, estimated by the Congressional Budget Office to be more than $1 trillion over 10 years.

“After months of thoroughly reviewing legislative proposals and speaking with constituents and stakeholders, I am not satisfied that this bill before us is a sustainable solution,” said Rep. Frank Kratovil, D-Md. Alert readers will remember that he was the congressman hung in effigy during the height of the August town hall meeting uproar.

But … but … but … those were just astroturfers! They’re not representative of the constituents, who really want government to take away their choices and lock them up for failing to buy their patriotic health-care coverage:

Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail.  The JCT letter  makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

In response to the JCT letter, Camp said:  “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail.  It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”

The radical nature of the bill has finally become clear.  The Democrats most at risk have begun peeling away, abortion vote or no abortion vote.  They have to win re-election in less than a year, and this will be Exhibit A for their Republican challengers looking to paint them as big-spending statists more interested in bullying their constituents than listening to them.

Don’t be surprised to see more Democrats start to jump overboard this weekend.  Steny Hoyer didn’t think he had the votes yesterday, and the longer this goes, the fewer he will wind up having.

Blowback

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yoda on November 7, 2009 at 9:51 AM

I guess this has been happening all along and maybe they have finally gotten to issues that I feel passionately about but I have to admit it does feel thugish to me also. “Historically” speaking that is.

Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 10:03 AM

I just saw a license plate yesterday here in AZ and would like to send the sentiment on to speaker Pelosi..

UPURP2T

jbinnout on November 7, 2009 at 10:03 AM

On the bright side, AR-15s are back in plentiful supply at my local gun shop and the prices are back in triple digits.

Bruce in NH on November 7, 2009 at 9:18 AM

I would have to use it as a club. No .223 anywhere around here.

Last night I checked a couple of places for .270 WIN and couldn’t find a box. No 12 gauge buckshot either.

flyfisher on November 7, 2009 at 10:04 AM

What are the ramifications for voting/passing legislation that is clearly unconstitutional?

Key West Reader on November 7, 2009 at 9:25 AM

I assume there are no ramifications if we do not challenge it and take it to the Supreme Court to have it declared unconstitutional. Problem is, it cannot be challenged until it is actually passed into law, right? I am skeptical it will make it through the Senate at this point. If it does, who would be the most likely group to challenge this, we should be prepared to flood that group with any help needed whether it si money or anything else.

bluemarlin on November 7, 2009 at 10:04 AM

I don’t know that answer to that but I do have to point out that although the taxes start immediately the actual health care doesn’t begin until 2013. I can’t imagine why since apparently it is going to keep the U.S. economy from collapsing.

Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 9:42 AM

The Won’s thinking:
If this b.s. took effect immediately upon passage, we would (also immediately) see how sh*tty it was. The question of constitutionality would have three years to grow into a roar of disapproval and disgust. Then…election time, and the GOP could nominate a goldfish and have a very good chance of regaining the White House. This way, if (or, in his narcissistic view, when) he gets re-elected in 2012, no matter how quick we were to grab the pitchforks and torches, he won’t care – he’s already got his, and we can all get forked.

uncivilized on November 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM

flyfisher on November 7, 2009 at 9:59 AM
I love Haley Barbour.

Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 10:00 AM

Maybe he should run in 2012. He’s the anti-Obama – conservative, chubby, smart, experienced, terrific accent, competent, clothes don’t fit him quite right. He’s perfect.

flyfisher on November 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM

hawkdriver on November 7, 2009 at 10:01 AM

Both Mr. Owens and Mr. Hoffman campaigned on being against the public option. Upon entering the swamp that is D.C., Mr. Owens immediately and wholeheartedly endorsed the current Bill. Ann is being sarcastic in her thanks to Ms. Scozzafavva for encouraging her supporters to vote for Mr. Owens. I will say this about Ann, she may want different things from this Bill then a lot of us do, but she has steadfastly been against liars and cheaters.

Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 10:07 AM

Last night I checked a couple of places for .270 WIN and couldn’t find a box. No 12 gauge buckshot either.

flyfisher on November 7, 2009 at 10:04 AM

No buckshot, go for the slugs then!

bluemarlin on November 7, 2009 at 10:08 AM

uncivilized on November 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Oh, I understand why they did it, I am just annoyed that conservatives are the only ones that have pointed it out and that the media has chosen to ignore it.

Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 10:08 AM

I wrote here that the Founding Fathers would be siding with Republicans if they were alive today. Of course, that isn’t always the case but they’d be passionately rallying against Pelosi’s Abomination.

LFRGary on November 7, 2009 at 10:08 AM

I would have to use it as a club. No .223 anywhere around here.

Last night I checked a couple of places for .270 WIN and couldn’t find a box. No 12 gauge buckshot either.

flyfisher on November 7, 2009 at 10:04 AM

Invest in reloading equipment. Ammo is scarce everywhere. You can find it online – sometimes – but hubby has a reloading press and enough brass and primers to effectively close off the extra bedroom.

uncivilized on November 7, 2009 at 10:08 AM

See, the thing I don’t get is… they’ve got all this power… all they have to do is expand Medicare to cover EVERYBODY and then increase the taxes for it.

Which is far more legal than throwing us in jail if we don’t buy the government product.

Skywise on November 7, 2009 at 10:09 AM

And will I be a felon? Will I lose my right to vote. Will they (try) takeing my weapons?

hawkdriver on November 7, 2009 at 9:53 AM

And YOU WILL REPORT DIRECTLY TO AN ASSIGNED RE-EDUCATION CAMP. (the price of your stay here will be paid for from the sale of your weapons–and your constitutional rights will be forthwith suspended—thank you for your participation)—signed, Emperor Obama

Rovin on November 7, 2009 at 10:09 AM

Prision for not buying health insurance? I’ll go! Three hots and a cot, and free medical coverage. Obviously the democrats don’t understand incentive. Buy health insurance at great expense or I’ll give it to you for free, but your living conditions will be communal. Who wouldn’t want that? If you are already a communist, you would want to live in a collective where all of your decisions are made for you by The Party. Health Insurance too expensive for your budget, GREAT, the government will give it to you for free!

Put all the conservatives in re-education camps and the liberals would starve in their dark, crime ridden cities.

Skandia Recluse on November 7, 2009 at 10:09 AM

Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Cindy, the media is so starry-eyed in love with this idiot it’s scary. I wonder what it’s going to take to clear their vision up.

uncivilized on November 7, 2009 at 10:10 AM

flyfisher on November 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Fine with me, he was the most effective RNC Chair in my lifetime. But soon someone will comment that they can’t vote for someone with such a deep Southern accent. Some of us are so intellectually deep that we can’t put up with that sort of thing, doncha know.

Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 10:10 AM

How is this even legal? You can’t jail someone for not buying a product.

UGH what is happening to this country?

gophergirl on November 7, 2009 at 10:11 AM

Blogless: thanks and even better, that list shows all rep’s email contact info, which for me at least is faster and easier that faxing. Fun emailing these jerks.

chai on November 7, 2009 at 9:46 AM

Only trouble with emailing is sometimes they require a zip code and if you are not in their district, I imagine the email goes right to the spam filter. Faxing and calling is best. Good luck!

bloggless on November 7, 2009 at 10:12 AM

uncivilized on November 7, 2009 at 10:10 AM

A hit in their wallet or treading on “freedoms”. I am not sure they will recognize the wallet theft until it’s too late, they think the Pay Fairy takes care of them.

Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 10:12 AM

Last I heard, he said he wouldn’t vote for Single Payer.

hawkdriver on November 7, 2009 at 10:01 AM

Oh, so you’re saying he did NOT promise to vote against public option. I get it now.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 10:13 AM

No buckshot, go for the slugs then!

bluemarlin on November 7, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Expander slugs

flyoverboy on November 7, 2009 at 10:14 AM

they think the Pay Fairy takes care of them

Obama?

publiuspen on November 7, 2009 at 10:15 AM

I would have to use it as a club. No .223 anywhere around here.

Last night I checked a couple of places for .270 WIN and couldn’t find a box. No 12 gauge buckshot either.

flyfisher on November 7, 2009 at 10:04 AM

Invest in reloading equipment. Ammo is scarce everywhere. You can find it online – sometimes – but hubby has a reloading press and enough brass and primers to effectively close off the extra bedroom.

uncivilized on November 7, 2009 at 10:08 AM

I agree. I’ve got two MEC 600 Jr. shotshell reloaders and and an RCBS Pro 2000 progressive press for brass. What I don’t have are dies for .270 WIN (just bought the .270).

flyfisher on November 7, 2009 at 10:17 AM

There is a flaw in Pelosi’s logic on this one because ultimately once they start locking people up for not having insurance I guarantee you it will affect Democrat constituents more than it will the Republicans and Conservatives.

Hellrider on November 7, 2009 at 10:19 AM

O/T Is the president going to the commissioning of the U.S.S. New York this morning?

Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 10:22 AM

AnninCA,

I took a beating in a thread yesterday standing up for you. I would just like to know if you support a bill that would put people in the poor house and the big house? I know you support government healthcare, but what we are seeing is exactly what opponents have been saying would happen.

Howcome on November 7, 2009 at 10:23 AM

O/T Is the president going to the commissioning of the U.S.S. New York this morning?

Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 10:22 AM

No, Mizzzzzz Clinton is representing the White House.

uncivilized on November 7, 2009 at 10:25 AM

Camille Paglia thinks, and has written about it,that Pelosi should be forced to step down. Right now would be a very good time for that to happen. This piece of social engineering has gone way beyond nightmare. Now it’s really about the principle of freedom. It’s reprehensible to threaten or pass any legislation that would put anyone in jail for not having health insurance. We need someone with some political or journalistic clout to start up a petition and demand Pelosi step down now.

elclynn on November 7, 2009 at 10:25 AM

uncivilized on November 7, 2009 at 10:25 AM

Tacky.

Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 10:27 AM

soooooo…pay a 2.5 “tax” for not having insurance or go directly to jail? Are they out of their collective minds? Jail Americans who either cannot or will not purchase health insurance? Yeah right, I’d like to see them try it. It’ll get mightly crowded in our already crowded prisons. Oh wait, I’ve got it. Soylent green for those who don’t submit.

Annietxgrl on November 7, 2009 at 10:27 AM

No, Mizzzzzz Clinton is representing the White House.

uncivilized on November 7, 2009 at 10:25 AM

Beyond frakking unbelievable.

thomasaur on November 7, 2009 at 10:28 AM

took a beating in a thread yesterday standing up for you. I would just like to know if you support a bill that would put people in the poor house and the big house? I know you support government healthcare, but what we are seeing is exactly what opponents have been saying would happen.

Howcome on November 7, 2009 at 10:23 AM

Rest assured. I don’t support either this bill or the Baucus bill.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 10:28 AM

I agree. I’ve got two MEC 600 Jr. shotshell reloaders and and an RCBS Pro 2000 progressive press for brass. What I don’t have are dies for .270 WIN (just bought the .270).
flyfisher on November 7, 2009 at 10:17 AM

Good luck finding primers; I’ve been on an already-paid-for waiting list for months.

As for .223, around these parts we have it coming out of our ears; Cabela’s has weekly sales trying to get rid of it.

Bishop on November 7, 2009 at 10:30 AM

Obama doesn’t have time to honor the victims of 911. He has to destroy the United States of America first.

kingsjester on November 7, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Tacky.

Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 10:27 AM

I agree. But Mr. Obama is busy today at the Capitol, wheelin’ and dealin’ to get this healthcare piece of crap jammed down our throats…so I guess he couldn’t be bothered.

uncivilized on November 7, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Wolverines!

bill30097 on November 7, 2009 at 10:34 AM

they think the Pay Fairy takes care of them.

Is there anything Bawny Fwank can’t do?

JamesLee on November 7, 2009 at 10:35 AM

I agree. I’ve got two MEC 600 Jr. shotshell reloaders and and an RCBS Pro 2000 progressive press for brass. What I don’t have are dies for .270 WIN (just bought the .270).

flyfisher on November 7, 2009 at 10:17 AM

flyfisher, Your biggest problem, eventually, will be finding powder to reload. Once the government controls the supply of powder, it’s over. I suggest a proficient compound bow and a good supply of arrows should also be in your arsenal, but let’s all hope sanity will reach our leadership before we come to this. I still believe in our republic and the electoral process that supports the will of the people. Only when the government suspends these rights will an armed society have to rise to this pivital resolution. Keep your powder dry, my friend.

(and throw that fly-pole away and purchase some good grappling hooks…. :)

Rovin on November 7, 2009 at 10:35 AM

http://www.speaker.gov
202-225-0100

joeswampy on November 7, 2009 at 9:42 AM

CALL!! I can’t believe I just got through and talked to
someone in Pelosi’s office! I almost fell off my chair.

Yes, you will have to pay a “small fee” if you opt out. How is up to $25k a small fee? (crickets) How can poorer people pay that premium %? (crickets)

He kept telling me to read the bill! I said I did read this part and here’s what it says. He said that the bill “in its current form” will be changed once it goes to the Senate. Unreal. I challenged him why this stuff is in the bill in the first place? How is that liberty, freedom, Constitutional???! He works in the Speakers office and hasn’t read the bill? He didn’t have much to say and eventually transferred me to the comments voicemail.

PLEASE CALL!!! Let your voice be heard.

conservative pilgrim on November 7, 2009 at 10:38 AM

But Mr. Obama is busy today at the Capitol, wheelin’ and dealin’ to get this healthcare piece of crap jammed down our throats…so I guess he couldn’t be bothered.

uncivilized on November 7, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Would that be the same Osama Obama who recently said he’d veto any “health care” bill that cost over a trillion bucks?

His lies would fill a book the size of the NYC telephone directory.

MrScribbler on November 7, 2009 at 10:39 AM

bill30097 on November 7, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Maybe.

hawkdriver on November 7, 2009 at 10:40 AM

Oops. Messed up the copy/paste. Stupid iPhone. Anyway…

.Melt the phones!!!

http://www.speaker.gov
202-225-0100

conservative pilgrim on November 7, 2009 at 10:42 AM

Why is Al Qaeda trying so hard to destroy our country? Barry and Nancy are doin a fine job all by themselves.

flyoverboy on November 7, 2009 at 10:42 AM

WE WILL HAVE TO BUILD MORE JAILS.

bloggless on November 7, 2009 at 9:25 AM

Yup.

They don’t have the manpower.

Go ahead, lock-up the producers.

Or should I say, TRY.

artist on November 7, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Maybe.

hawkdriver on November 7, 2009 at 10:40 AM

roger that

flyoverboy on November 7, 2009 at 10:46 AM

They don’t have the manpower.

Go ahead, lock-up the producers.

Can it still be called “going Galt” when you don’t do it voluntarily?

JamesLee on November 7, 2009 at 10:46 AM

I’d call Pelosi’s office except that I feel it would be a complete waste of my time. She doesn’t care, doesn’t hear,is not nor ever will be open to reason—there is something really wrong with her. Something is missing in her makeup though I do not have a name for it. Taking a guess, I would say that she would sacrifice anyone, anytime, anyway to get her own way and never look back. I have heard these called sociopathic tendencies and apparently they apply to some politicians and not just to criminals.Is this what inspires such fear of her?

jeanie on November 7, 2009 at 10:47 AM

The House Madam will get her Congresstitutes in line to vote for the Health Industry takeover (which neither she nor her House of Ill Repute will partake) while the ‘johns’ get to pay the bill.

SeniorD on November 7, 2009 at 9:16 AM

Very good!
It shows what the Democrats have in store for “We the People”; They can appoint and shelter felons in Congress, but the citizens are sacrificial subjects.
IS THIS A GREAT CONGRESS, OR WHAT?

Cybergeezer on November 7, 2009 at 10:48 AM

I agree. But Mr. Obama is busy today at the Capitol, wheelin’ and dealin’ to get this healthcare piece of crap jammed down our throats…so I guess he couldn’t be bothered.
uncivilized on November 7, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Naw. I’m sure he’s polishing his golf game and couldn’t be inconvenienced.

conservative pilgrim on November 7, 2009 at 10:48 AM

jeanie on November 7, 2009 at 10:47 AM

Exercising your freedom of speech for “We the People” is NOT a waste of time. It’ll take 2-3 minutes, you’ll feel better, make her people squirm, and speak out. Just do it.

202-225-0100

conservative pilgrim on November 7, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Just called Ellison’s office about the provision in the bill – they had no idea it’s in there.

I read it to him and he was dumbfounded. Idiot Ellison is still voting yes but GOD HELP OUR COUNTRY.

gophergirl on November 7, 2009 at 10:53 AM

He kept telling me to read the bill!

conservative pilgrim on November 7, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Major “You first” moment

Nice work Pilgrim +1

CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 10:59 AM

While the MSM and the entertainment industry back this monstrosity, they also tell the idiot portion of our country that people who call out the alarm like Beck, Rush, Hannity, Michelle, Ann and others are all crazies. I realize is take a low IQ to believe and vote based on catch phrases like “Hope & Change”, but even they shouldn’t be so stupid that they can’t see the tyranny of a bill that forces you to:

#1 Purchase health insurance
#2 Forces Americans opposed to infanticide to contribute to support it with their insurance payments.

Jeff from WI on November 7, 2009 at 11:00 AM

it takes oooopps

Jeff from WI on November 7, 2009 at 11:01 AM

Jeff from WI on November 7, 2009 at 11:00 AM

Wanna bet?

flyoverboy on November 7, 2009 at 11:02 AM

Just just your Hopenchange showing thru

bluegrass on November 7, 2009 at 11:07 AM

My suggest for a simple 2010 campaign ad:

Just put up a side-by-side visual of Pelosi [use the least flattering pic possible] and the ‘targeted’ ‘rat, then flash these tag lines, in sequence:

No freedom

No prosperity

No security

[Important: Use the 'O-logo' in the No's O]

Then display the ‘challenger’s’ face and final tag lines.

No Hope? Vote Republican

For best effect, use it in the final 24 hrs before election day. Then watch the Lefties explode [popcorn optional].

CPT. Charles on November 7, 2009 at 11:12 AM

Fascism. Plain and simple fascism.

rbj on November 7, 2009 at 11:13 AM

Okay, you refuse. They say go to jail. You say “No, come and get me.” They show up and try to apprehend you. You menace with a weapon of some sort because the government actually has the audacity to to try to incarcerate you for not buy something the government is selling and they shoot and kill you. Is it ironic to say you were killed because you wouldn’t agree to buy health insurance?
hawkdriver on November 7, 2009 at 9:33 AM

Actually, you’ll just be added to the liberal statistics
as one more person who died from ‘lack of healthcare’.

mrt721 on November 7, 2009 at 11:15 AM

Choice and competition, as defined by the leftists that are the democrat party of 2009, is jail those who do not comply.

Good Job democrats! Keep voting democrat! Keep f*#@ing that chicken ignoramuses!

daesleeper on November 7, 2009 at 11:22 AM

http://www.veteranoutrage.com

I TOLD YOU

Some people said —
My comments were too over the top
My comments were devisive
My comments were wrong..
Peolosi and obama would never
JAIL AMERICAN CITIZENS becuase they could always opt out..

I said
BULLSHIT..

and now AGAIN i am proven right ..
and now AGAIN one of my top 30 predictions about
these NAZIS running our country are comming true..

And all of you frigging liberal morons
who voted for these God Damed Communsit / NAZIS

All i can say is
Welcome to democrat HELL..

When your sorry ass it thrown into jail
because you didnt buy Pelosi approved insurance
By the way how many democrats will be on the board
of directors making 7 ffigure incomes off of this
Giant rip off???

but i digress

You FRIGGING IDIOTS..

You deserve to go to jail all of you do..

When pelosi comes for me..
I will have my guns ready..

I aint going to obey..
Screw pelosi
Screw Obama
Screw the Democrats
Screw the liberals..

I will NOT OBEY

veteranoutrage on November 7, 2009 at 11:23 AM

We will need to build more jails or we can let the convicted murderer and thugs out to make room for those criminals who don’t pay for health insurance.

bloggless on November 7, 2009 at 9:20 AM

No, all they need to do is prosecute a few in well publicized show trials and 90% of the hold outs will obey.

The way to stop the thing is the court…an immediate case funded by republicans need to be started with the stolen money in escrow until the case is adjudicated.

Otherwise the government will spend the looted proceeds as fast as it is collected.

JIMV on November 7, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Only trouble with emailing is sometimes they require a zip code and if you are not in their district, I imagine the email goes right to the spam filter. Faxing and calling is best. Good luck!

bloggless on November 7, 2009 at 10:12 AM

Forget that…go to their local office and confront the staff. Get an appointment with the Demi-God when he next decides to slum it and visits his district, and then contribute to his opponent….

JIMV on November 7, 2009 at 11:29 AM

This is such a dumb complaint, and a dumb post. You can get fined and jailed for tax evasion?? Oh my god!

If you don’t get health insurance, you get a tax. If you don’t pay the tax, you get the normal penalties for not paying tax, which include fines and jail. The same “logic” can be applied to any tax that you don’t like. You are falling for a very silly trick if you believe that this is outrageous.

Let me make an analogous argument: YOU CAN BE JAILED FOR BUYING A HOUSE!!! If you buy a house, they will charge you property tax, and if you don’t pay the property tax, they will fine you and put you IN JAIL!

If you don’t like the tax for not buying health insurance, stick to that. Continue to argue that it’s an imposition, or even unconstitutional (though if you read what legal experts have to say and not just HotAir, you’ll see that most agree current Supreme Court precedent would allow it). But making it sound as if you’ll be jailed directly for not buying insurance — as opposed to not paying taxes — is not right.

tneloms on November 7, 2009 at 11:44 AM

This is such a dumb complaint, and a dumb post. You can get fined and jailed for tax evasion?? Oh my god!

If you don’t get health insurance, you get a tax. If you don’t pay the tax, you get the normal penalties for not paying tax, which include fines and jail. The same “logic” can be applied to any tax that you don’t like. You are falling for a very silly trick if you believe that this is outrageous.

Let me make an analogous argument: YOU CAN BE JAILED FOR BUYING A HOUSE!!! If you buy a house, they will charge you property tax, and if you don’t pay the property tax, they will fine you and put you IN JAIL!

If you don’t like the tax for not buying health insurance, stick to that. Continue to argue that it’s an imposition, or even unconstitutional (though if you read what legal experts have to say and not just HotAir, you’ll see that most agree current Supreme Court precedent would allow it). But making it sound as if you’ll be jailed directly for not buying insurance — as opposed to not paying taxes — is not right.

tneloms on November 7, 2009 at 11:44 AM

You want to hear something dumb? Failing to grasp the simple fact that the government doesn’t force you to buy a house and therefore pay taxes on it. The government is going to force people to purchase something they shouldn’t have to purchase if they don’t want to. Then they will fine you if you don’t and JAIL you if you don’t pay those fines – all of which starts with the ridiculous notion that the government can force a citizen to buy insurance on their own health.

Thunderstorm129 on November 7, 2009 at 11:53 AM

flyfisher, Your biggest problem, eventually, will be finding powder to reload. Once the government controls the supply of powder, it’s over. I suggest a proficient compound bow and a good supply of arrows should also be in your arsenal, but let’s all hope sanity will reach our leadership before we come to this. I still believe in our republic and the electoral process that supports the will of the people. Only when the government suspends these rights will an armed society have to rise to this pivital resolution. Keep your powder dry, my friend.

(and throw that fly-pole away and purchase some good grappling hooks…. :)

Rovin on November 7, 2009 at 10:35 AM

I’m a lifelong sportsman, so I’ve got all the archery and fishing equipment a man could want, plus a boat :) I’m thinking of buying myself a Kawasaki Mule 4×4 next.

Powder and primers have been an issue for a year now. I’ve got a good supply, but would like to buy more. I’m not arming for battle (though I can fight if it ever comes to that). I’m interested in protecting and feeding my family.

flyfisher on November 7, 2009 at 11:59 AM

Next Pelosi/Reid bill will require all citizens to hang a portrait of Hussein in their homes and wear a lapel button with his picture on it. Else face fines and mandatory jail time, plus confiscation of all property.

Friendly21 on November 7, 2009 at 12:00 PM

Hey, the Dems are just trying to make sure we all have good health care. At least Pelosi cares.
Lighten up. Better to have adequate health care in jail then be sick in the gutter. That’s what I always say.

JellyToast on November 7, 2009 at 12:01 PM

***
HI FLYFISHER–Cabela’s can get the most common types of ammunition for you. However, orders for the less common types–like for my .45 Long Colt revolver–are on long backorder. But it will come someday–at a reasonable price. Most other suppliers won’t take orders and no longer advertise since they can’t get any ammo at all.
***
Don’t say that Comrade Obama (PBUH) hasn’t helped out some segments of our economy. Acorn, SEIU, and the firearm and ammo suppliers are going nuts and getting rich. It’s an ill wind that blows no good.
***
John Bibb
***

rocketman on November 7, 2009 at 12:06 PM

LAND OF THE FREE
HOME OF THE BRAVE

Nancy’s taking care of first part. Obama’s working on the second half.

kurtzz3 on November 7, 2009 at 12:15 PM

There is a lot of talk about the insurance company canceling a policy in the middle of treatment. I would love to see even ONE example, where an insurance company was allowed to do this, when it wasn’t done for some reason allowed in the policy. I am not talking merely about a company doing it or attempting to do it, but one where they were challenged on what they did and got away with it, even up to a case in court. As a former insurance agent, and someone currently working in the insurance regulatory business, this just doesn’t happen. The problem with this being reported as factually happening, is that there are legal, valid reasons for this type of cancellation, as the policies are very specific as to when they can be canceled. Most likely, these people didn’t read their policy and understand what was actually covered, or the limits (per incident or per lifetime) of their policy, causing them to believe they wee arbitrarily canceled.

mwdiver on November 7, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Gulags for decent are next.

We are truly living in a Totalitarian regime. How did this happen in America?

petunia on November 7, 2009 at 12:19 PM

A little heartening from un updated piece on Blooomberg this morning:

Representative Jason Altmire, an undecided Democrat from Pennsylvania, said Obama, White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and two Cabinet secretaries have called him to make the pitch that “this is an historic moment.”

Altmire said administration and House leaders have stressed that the House bill isn’t the final product, since the Senate is deliberating over its own version, “but if we didn’t do this, it’s dead,” Altmire said.

“It doesn’t appear they have the votes,” Altmire told reporters. “That’s pretty clear.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a5gDY7q4FTgc

JoeinTX on November 7, 2009 at 1:00 PM

I think Ted Nugent should pay Nancy a personal visit. Maybe even have her down to the ranch for a spell. I believe Ted has an excellent recipe for wild PIG

flyoverboy on November 7, 2009 at 1:29 PM

***
HI FLYFISHER–Cabela’s can get the most common types of ammunition for you. However, orders for the less common types–like for my .45 Long Colt revolver–are on long backorder. But it will come someday–at a reasonable price. Most other suppliers won’t take orders and no longer advertise since they can’t get any ammo at all.
***
***
John Bibb
***

rocketman on November 7, 2009 at 12:06 PM

What kind of .45 do you have? I bought a Taurus Judge that shoots three-inch 410 shells and .45 Colts. I got it to use as a sidearm on an Alaskan fishing trip. I know it’s not the best thing for bears, but another fisherman in my group has an .500 S&W magnum, so I figured I would load .45+Ps and fish near him :)

flyfisher on November 7, 2009 at 1:50 PM

It’s a tax. It’s JUST A TAX!

TinMan13 on November 7, 2009 at 2:09 PM

Leftists WANT a showdown and violence, if they pass this unconstitutional bill the leftist just MIGHT get more than they asked for.

nelsonknows on November 7, 2009 at 2:32 PM

I just bought a new roll of rope, 2000 yards which is enough to hang every one of these traitors in Washington.

nelsonknows on November 7, 2009 at 2:35 PM

veteranoutrage on November 7, 2009 at 11:23 AM

I will never submit.
 
FREEDOM!

Blacksmith8 on November 7, 2009 at 3:24 PM

So how’s everybody liking that secession talk now?

Blacksmith8 on November 7, 2009 at 3:24 PM

Is it time to put these fools up for TREASON YET?
Obama and Pelosi are working Against our Constitution and need to be tried!

moski on November 7, 2009 at 3:41 PM

hawkdriver wrote:

Is it ironic to say you were killed because you wouldn’t agree to buy health insurance?

That’s the way it’ll be for me. I will not pay. How many of us can they put in jail? Hell, in CA they are releasing serial rapists because of overcrowding. I think resisting the plan will bring down the whole cursed federal government.

btw: My next door neighbor here in Savannah is a blackhawk guy as well.

noblejones on November 7, 2009 at 4:05 PM

***
HI AGAIN FLYFISHER–Mine is a WW1 era Canadian Mountie type Colt that was converted from .455 Eley to Long Colt. I bought it 50 years ago when I was a university student. Two football players told me they were going to get me later after I had a run-in with them in a public place. One of them had left a high school student I knew a “vegetable” in a wheelchair a few years earlier after beating him severely. Nothing ever happened to the punk. Forty dollars bought a lot of “insurance” for me–I worked 20 miles away alone at a powerhouse at night to pay for school.
***
Never had to use the gun–a few years later the two punks rolled over their car at high speed on a drunken trip somewhere and died. Shoots well–but a little “clunky” to hold on to and more recoil than the .45 auto.
***
As far as using handguns–even the .44 magnum on Kodiac bears–the gun is to shoot yourself rather than getting eaten alive when the bear gets you! Even a 30-06 rifle is “poor bear medicine”–think Weatherby magnums instead.
***
I worked with a guy who had lived in Alaska and told a story about a “hunter” who tried to kill a big bear with a .44 magnum. He hit it with all 6 shots over the heart area–the bear kept coming. The guide killed the bear with a big rifle. The .44 hollow point slugs did not penetrate to the heart–the rifle did the job.
***
Remember–when you step out in Alaska you have moved down the food chain a few notches! Bring the rifle!
***
John Bibb
***

rocketman on November 7, 2009 at 4:15 PM

I urge all Americans who disagree with this unconstitutional mandate to simply refuse to comply. They don’t have enough federal prisons to hold everyone.

Can armed resistence really be that far behind?

pdigaudio on November 7, 2009 at 4:21 PM

Hey Nancy, Come and get me, I’m not buying S#it from you. Might as well get me now cause I’m not answering any census questions other than number of people living in my home too.

Jeff from WI on November 7, 2009 at 4:39 PM

Thunderstorm129 on November 7, 2009 at 11:53 AM

Right, which is exactly what I said. If you want to complain about a tax for not buying insurance, then keep your complaints to that. The jail thing is a red herring. You go to jail any time you don’t pay taxes.

Also, what would you say if Congress raised income taxes, then created a tax CREDIT or DEDUCTION for buying insurance? They could make it work out to be exactly the same — you’d pay X more dollars for not buying insurance. Then if someone fraudulently claimed the tax credit or deduction even though they didn’t buy the insurance, they would be fined or go to jail. It doesn’t sound as ridiculous that way, but it’s the same thing.

The problem with these arguments is that it’s just a tax. So the arguments against it should treat it as a tax. Not government FORCING you to do anything, just the government taxing you. I’m not saying you shouldn’t vehemently oppose the tax, just that you shouldn’t pretend that jail has anything to do with this.

tneloms on November 7, 2009 at 4:50 PM

If anyone thinks they are going to take me jail because I don’t buy health insurance they are going to find lead flying at them. I just called congresswoman Betsy Markey’s office and made that clear. I also asked if the congress woman had made a decision yet as to how she is going to vote. She hasn’t made up her mind yet.

boomer on November 7, 2009 at 4:50 PM

The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

Do prisoners get free health care in jail? Maybe that’s the catch!

Note to CBO chief Elmendorf: Better add in the cost of new jails for all those uninsured healthy felons.

Steve Z on November 7, 2009 at 4:59 PM

She hasn’t made up her mind yet.

boomer on November 7, 2009 at 4:50 PM

LOL…if she hasn’t made up her mind yet, it means she’s voting for it.

ddrintn on November 7, 2009 at 4:59 PM

Let me make an analogous argument: YOU CAN BE JAILED FOR BUYING A HOUSE!!! If you buy a house, they will charge you property tax, and if you don’t pay the property tax, they will fine you and put you IN JAIL!

tneloms on November 7, 2009 at 11:44 AM

Really? Debtors prison? Where? 17th century London? They take your house, moron.

nico on November 7, 2009 at 5:11 PM

Hey Nancy, Come and get me, I’m not buying S#it from you. Might as well get me now cause I’m not answering any census questions other than number of people living in my home too.

Jeff from WI on November 7, 2009 at 4:39 PM

Bingo.

And wouldn’t it be wonderful if we were in the same cell block as that idiot Peggy Joseph?

GrannyDee on November 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM

ddrintn on November 7, 2009 at 4:59 PM

That was my thought as well.

boomer on November 7, 2009 at 5:18 PM

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