Catholic bishops endorse Pelosi Plan with Stupak amendment?
posted at 12:15 pm on November 7, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Consider this a pre-update on a post that I was writing about Catholic conscience exemptions. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops had opposed the Pelosi plan because of its federal funding for abortions. Now that Pelosi has allowed the Stupak amendment to come to a vote today, a rider that would more forcefully ban any federal funding for abortion coverage, the USCCB has announced that it will endorse the Pelosi plan, according to Politico:
House leaders have won the backing of the nation’s Catholic bishops for health reform, a critical last-minute boost that could give the bill enough momentum – and enough votes – for passage as early as Saturday. …
“Passing this amendment allows the House to meet our criteria of preserving the existing protections against abortion funding in the new legislation,” the bishops wrote in a letter to individual members. “Most importantly, it will ensure that no government funds will be used for abortion or health plans which include abortion.”
It’s another bitter pill for liberal Democrats but party leaders are gambling that the amendment will be just the breakthrough they need to secure a majority. And in fact, most Democratic advocates of abortion rights appear likely to swallow hard and vote for a health care overhaul anyway.
“I don’t believe any of us believe we can hold up what we’ve been fighting for … and that’s health care,” said Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-N.Y.).
I’m not terribly surprised by that outcome. The USCCB isn’t exactly a hotbed of libertarian thought. The only surprise in this chapter of ObamaCare is that the bishops stood so strongly against the bill in the first place. Most of them believe in a collective health-care approach rather than a free market, with a few notable exceptions. That’s one reason to remember that their wisdom generally remains limited to the spiritual rather than the temporal in terms of political thought.
The big question is whether Stupak’s amendment will actually pass — and whether the bishops will go back to vocal opposition if it doesn’t. Another big question will be whether Stupak’s language survives a conference process, which could also apply to conscience protections.
With so many new regulations and mandates contained in the Pelosi Plan of ObamaCare, small wonder that people have been confused over how far and wide they will reach. The group Freedom To Care sent out a video yesterday warning of the collapse of the present system of Catholic providers that currently care for 1/6th of the nation’s hospital patients, if conscience exemptions get repealed. This comes out at the moment when Nancy Pelosi has attempted to push a vote on her plan, but actually refers to a regulatory change announced months ago by the Obama administration:
The Pelosi Plan actually has language protecting conscience exemptions — but only those established in other areas of the law. Sections 258 and 259, found on pages 147-149 of the bill, states that “Nothing in this Act shall be construed to have any effect on Federal laws regarding (a) conscience protection,” and also has language protecting conscience exemptions in state laws as well. It does not set into law any new conscience protections, however.
The Obama administration announced months ago its intention to erase a regulatory change made late in the Bush administration expanding conscience exemptions, which Freedom To Care says will put at risk Catholic providers. This has been going on for eight months, and as I wrote at the time, the rule change won’t force doctors to perform abortions. The exemption for that has been committed to federal law for years now, and a rule change can’t repeal that. The rule change brings the exemption limits to where they were before December 2008, which doesn’t include abortion counseling and contraception services.
This is a good reminder that people have to have the freedom of their conscience in determining what services they themselves will and will not provide. However, it’s really a separate issue from the Pelosi Plan, at least at the moment, unless the conscience protections get stripped out in a conference report further down the line — which could eventually happen.
Update: Judie Brown, president of the American Life League and also a member of the Pontifical Academy for Life that advises Pope Benedict on these issues, is not amused by this premature declaration:
“Our Catholic bishops should be fearlessly leading the way towards a culture of life. Fighting to maintain a status quo credited to the destruction of 51 million preborn children is wrong and confusing to 65 million Catholics united in the defense of life.
“What Cardinal Rigali has permitted by way of political maneuvering is to allow an amendment to be heard and watch it be defeated. While our Catholic bishops will scramble to define their opposition to abortion in the aftermath, Pelosi will wave Rigali’s support for health care reform as evidence that lay Catholics would somehow be wrong in opposing her bill.
“In endorsing Pelosicare, our Catholic bishops have risked making themselves political pawns in advancing a culture of death that treats human life as disposable.
“Once again, this incrementalist approach to abortion will serve to enshrine in law grave injustices condemned unequivocally by the Catholic Church. Among these are rationed health care, In vitro fertilization, embryonic stem cell research, human experimentation, euthanasia and birth control.
“Faithful Catholics have a responsibility to vigorously oppose abortion in healthcare, not negotiate the status quo.
“Our bishops, when they negotiate anything less than the full protection all human beings deserve, undermine the very principles of the Catholic Faith and destroy the confidence of faithful Catholics across America.
“Our Catholic bishops should point to the unchanging principles and doctrines of the Catholic Faith, not negotiate a status quo that ends human lives. Today’s letter abrogates those principles. Americans should know that a truly Catholic position on health care protects human life at all stages and at all times.
“Negotiation on truth is never a Catholic principle. Truth alone should inform the consciences of faithful Catholics, and truth demands the full protection of human life.”
Blowback
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It doesn’t matter if Stupak’s amendment gets passed. Abortions will be in the final bill, they’ll just put it back in during conference committee.
Any Blue Dog that is hinging upon this who doesn’t think it’ll happen behind their backs are idiots.
Enoxo on November 7, 2009 at 12:19 PM
I wonder how they will feel once the abortion funding is put back in the bill in conference?
tatersalad on November 7, 2009 at 12:20 PM
This Catholic will no longer attempt to apologize for the USCCB.
fourdeucer on November 7, 2009 at 12:20 PM
The Catholic Church in America can’t seem to resist playing politics. They are not naive enough to think that abortions won’t wind up being supported along with the already included sex changing surgery.
Getting in bed with Pelosi of all people is a disgrace.
Hening on November 7, 2009 at 12:21 PM
Abortion,yes,very important issue,is one of many issues in this horrendous monstrosity.
This needs to be voted down totally.
ohiobabe on November 7, 2009 at 12:21 PM
They will be betrayed in the end, no doubt about it. I do not understand how they could trust Pelosi who was basically called a liar by the Pope in his teachable moment to her.
bluemarlin on November 7, 2009 at 12:24 PM
If you lie down with dogs you wake up with fleas.
It is truly unwise to endorse a bill before it goes to conference.
It is very possible those Catholic Bishops endorsed publicly funded abortions.
That is sad.
petunia on November 7, 2009 at 12:25 PM
No matter what they pass today or tomorrow, there is no way of being sure what will be in the final product.
Terrye on November 7, 2009 at 12:25 PM
The Bishops left out the part of the country becoming bankrupt in a veiled attempt to care for those that could be cared for with 10% of Pelosi’s cost.
Punditpawn on November 7, 2009 at 12:26 PM
That would be considered beastiality.
farright on November 7, 2009 at 12:26 PM
THEY ARE PASSING THE BILL NOW!
jay12 on November 7, 2009 at 12:28 PM
The Catholic bishops are always in favor of laws that force U.S. taxpayers to provide more “free” (i.e., taxpayer funded) benefits to illegal aliens — the majority of whom are Mexican and Central American Catholics. The bishops’ support for this monstrosity of a “healthcare” bill is no exception.
AZCoyote on November 7, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Smoke and Mirrors
Wade on November 7, 2009 at 12:30 PM
Beat me to it.
Just like the border fence funding, it will magically disappear.
CPT. Charles on November 7, 2009 at 12:33 PM
How else do you think they will fill the pews and collection baskets? The illegal aliens are mostly Catholic, as we all know.
fourdeucer on November 7, 2009 at 12:33 PM
The Bishops are not supporting PelosiCare — or opposing it either.
Their platform in a nutshell:
unclesmrgol on November 7, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Ah, Catholic Bishops, there are a lot more moral issues in this bill than abortion.
How about the death panels they’ve got planned for Seniors? How about the mandate of health insurance in violation of the Constitution? Seems like the Catholic Church has done well under IT’S Constitutional protections.
Hobbes on November 7, 2009 at 12:35 PM
They lose constituents by abortion and gain them by illegal immigration…mhh? which will be the higher number? Some principles, convictions and faith they’ve got…the poor souls.
What are the sheeple to do when their religious leaders are the same kind of whores than their political ones?
Sincere apologies to whores!
Schadenfreude on November 7, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Are there no serious Catholics in the US Conference of Catholic Bishops?
OmahaConservative on November 7, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Where are all the church/state folks?
JeffinOrlando on November 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM
U.S. Conference of Catholic Boneheads
SagebrushPuppet on November 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Shell game
CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 12:37 PM
My my, first Know Nothing post of the day…
unclesmrgol on November 7, 2009 at 12:37 PM
As near as I can tell, the only thing the Bishops are doing is supporting the Stupak amendment to guarantee no forced taxpayer support for abortions, but say nothing else about the rest of Obamacare. I’m not sure that is good strategy, in that the bill could get passed with the amendment, but the amendment could then be stripped in conference. So, I am trying to figure out the Bishops strategy, here.
Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 12:37 PM
Oh, so now there doesn’t need to be the famous separation of Church and State? I get it.
Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 12:37 PM
As if abortion is the only sticking point in this monstrosity. The Catholic bishops are naive fools.
echosyst on November 7, 2009 at 12:37 PM
The bishops must be banking on this math:
Abortions + death panels = LT illegal aliens
Schadenfreude on November 7, 2009 at 12:38 PM
I’m not sure what you mean. But this is a good article to tell us what to expect.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/11/the_house_health_care_debate_w.html
petunia on November 7, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Libertarian thought? Pot, drugs and isolationism?
StevefromMKE on November 7, 2009 at 12:40 PM
The latter is a big chunk of the former. Why should I and you support illegality?
Schadenfreude on November 7, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Absolutely Right! Look at the example of Olympia Snowe being the single republican vote to support the earlier version of this bill because they “took out” the public option. Then once they had her vote, they put it right back in. Standard operating procedure for marxists.
Bikerken on November 7, 2009 at 12:43 PM
This is outrageous:
I applaud what they say about abortion, but it is terribly empty in view of what they don’t point out and reject. (sins of omission?)
Where is their concern about John Paul II’s warning about the evils of the Welfare State?
where is their concern about the total neglect of the long held Catholic Principle of Susidiarity?
Where is their concern about bureaucrats controlling our ethics and morals and end of life decisions, through consulticide?
Where is their concern about the inevitable rationing of the most needy?
Where is their concern that our monies won’t be also used for heath choices regarding voluntary euthansia
Where is their concern that all aspects and our free will choices will be dictated by government under the guise of health care?
Where is their concern about this (and cap and trade) being the tools that destroy our economy, and private ownership, without which there can be no economic charity?
Where is their stated concern that black babies are being slaughtered far more than any other group?
What is truely frightening, is the fact that the Bishops have little to say about the massive take over by the government of our health care, other than abortion (which must be applauded – but partially suspect after only 79 of 365 bishops spoke up publically about honoring the country’s most aggressively pro-abortion president ever, at Notre Dame, and the 15 million dollars of money given for the poor, used to fund ACORN and the most radically pro-abortion president’s election.)
Perhaps we still have too many shepherds that concern themselves more with “justice and peace” in the model of the Jesuits Marxist liberation theology, but no longer in the salvation of souls?
Don L on November 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM
OT: Fox News’s Wendell Goller was just reporting.
How the hell does Fox allow this clown to perpetuate the 47 million uninsured myth? Even fricking Obama sliced that number to 30 million. Either way, once you eliminate the illegal aliens, those who are covered by other programs, and those who can afford it but choose not to purchase it, we’re down to 12 or 13 million. How can we be this far into the debate and even Fox is lying.
BuckeyeSam on November 7, 2009 at 12:48 PM
You should read their letter first. I’ve posted a link to it above. They’re definitely against the death panels, but the Bishops could care less about Constitutional issues.
As for “IT’S Constitutional protections”, those are in danger too. the Catholic healthcare system is the largest in the United States, with over 1100 facilities. Not only are the Bishops concerned about abortion, but I’m sure they’re concerned about Medicare payment restrictions, medical device taxes, and the caps on medical innovation which will result from this bill. After all, if the Government shorts a Catholic hospital on payments, then we Catholics suffer.
unclesmrgol on November 7, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Even without this very controversial issue, they’re fools!
The American Catholic church is wholly unethical and have been for the last 40 or so years. Many simply won’t open their eyes to the evil of socialism.
larvcom on November 7, 2009 at 12:49 PM
They are still in debate at the moment. Sessions seems to be doing a good job but it is still falling on deaf ears. One good paraphrase from him, ” … we are willing to give the Democrats all the credit for this bill” He is hammering the go to jail part of it right now.
bluemarlin on November 7, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Why isn’t anybody talking about this, am I missing something?: PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail
neuquenguy on November 7, 2009 at 12:52 PM
I believe it is true that the Catholic Bishops are far more liberal than Catholics generally. They do get the position on abortion correct, not forcing Americans to pay for abortions. But they simply remain silent, or in some cases imply support for, massive and universal government welfare programs that will greatly reduce freedom while expanding bureaucracy and our nation’s debt. As a conservative Catholic, this is very troubling to me.
Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Time for me to rethink where my money goes on Sunday. Perhaps it will be diverted from the collection plate to other charities that will serve God intelligently. I’m not going to apologize for these naive idiots either. Guess what, Vatican: Those slimy libs will put abortion back into the bill in committee, perhaps a few minutes before the vote.
Here’s a tip about lib politicians: THEY LIE! Thank you, Catholic bishops, for permitting abortion in our new socialist nation that has no respect for God or life. I’ll bump into you at the re-education detention camp, I’m sure.
Philly on November 7, 2009 at 12:53 PM
never mind…..
neuquenguy on November 7, 2009 at 12:53 PM
So, I guess the bishops have completely cleaned up the pedophile priest problem.
Oh, they haven’t? Oh.
As a Catholic, I gotta say our “shepherds” suck rocks. Too bad we can’t vote ‘em out.
SagebrushPuppet on November 7, 2009 at 12:58 PM
They jumped the gun, the amendment hasn’t passed. They also weren’t clear if the amendment is stripped in later stages if they would withdraw their endorsement.
After seeing the changes done in conference or other post vote processes, I wouldn’t trust Congress farther than I can throw them.
Isn’t the Congressional warranty, “Thirty feet or thirty seconds, whichever comes first”?.
SouthernRoots on November 7, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Thank the stupid majority of voters that gave us Obama and Dem supermajorities knowing this was comming, and of whom I have no ilussion will not do it agin. People who feel there will be a major reversal in 2010 are fulling themselves. America is too dumbed down. I cannor believe we have voted ourselves into dictatorship.
(sorry, feeling a litt
neuquenguy on November 7, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Okay what are they voting on? Stupak? Or rules? What are they voting on. Dang.
petunia on November 7, 2009 at 1:02 PM
(sorry, feeling a little negative at the moment)
neuquenguy on November 7, 2009 at 1:03 PM
When it comes to illegal immigration, Hispanic illegal immigrants largely outnumber other undocumented immigrants. Mexicans make up nearly 7 million of the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants.
The next largest group of Hispanics are Salvadorans and Guatemalans.
Educate me or show me where I am wrong.
fourdeucer on November 7, 2009 at 1:03 PM
I long ago left the Catholic Church over the US church constantly agitating for socialist causes under the warped belief that equality of misery is preferable to capitalism.
Oh, and that whole “we’re really not any better than any other religion”.
That’s a hell of a selling point!
jjshaka on November 7, 2009 at 1:03 PM
I will tell you this .If the house passes this bill there will be Revaluation before Christmas.There is more real anger out here than i have ever seen .The anger i have seen over the last few months makes 1993/94 seem like a calm sea.These fools and jerks in congress do not realize the true anger of the people.This time the people WILL take matters into there on hands and folks it will not be pretty.Pelosi does not know what the hell she messing with but she will find out real soon.It take s lot to get the American people mad and ready to take a stand but people one,s the people start moving and taking back the country Congress nor the gates of Hell can stop them.
thmcbb on November 7, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Obama is major supporter of post-birth ‘abortions’. How can anyone believe that there will be any restrictions on abortion funding in whatever bill he ends up signing?
18-1 on November 7, 2009 at 1:06 PM
3 years of Democrat rule and we are bankrupt. Who could have seen this coming?
People will die needlessly because of what is done today.
Rationing!
petunia on November 7, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Remember that most faith professionals, particularly Roman and Anglican bishops, are notoriously unskilled at secular politics.
greggriffith on November 7, 2009 at 1:07 PM
It is odd – in the Soviet version of socialism, they exterminated observant Christians, and in the Western Europe version they brainwash people away from Christianity. Why on earth would any church be interested in advancing the cause of socialism?
18-1 on November 7, 2009 at 1:07 PM
All the Tea Party protests, the 9/12 march, the election defeat last Tuesday for Democrats across the nation, Thursday’s Congressional House Call……ALL FOR NOTHING!
jay12 on November 7, 2009 at 1:11 PM
Where does it say they endorse the plan Ed? I don’t see it in the Politico article, just what you quoted and all that talks about is the Stupak amendment. Lets make sure we have the facts befor redirecting all the anger we should feel toward the Dems to the Catholic church. Or is Politico your “infallible” authority now?
neuquenguy on November 7, 2009 at 1:14 PM
OT they are voting in the House now:
So far 0 Republican Ayes and 104 Nays
Ted Torgerson on November 7, 2009 at 1:16 PM
As a Catholic, I am constantly amazed at the stupidity of the USCCB and their inability to stay out of politics. Their mandate has absolutely nothing to do with government legislation, only our spiritual needs. They only belittle themselves and expose their ignorance every time they venture into the public’s business. Endorsing Pelosi’s promises? What fools!!
ultracon on November 7, 2009 at 1:17 PM
Per American Papist; it’s just endorsement of Stupak Amendment:
[update - Politico has changed the title of their "live pulse" story to clarify that the bishops have only endorsed the Stupak/etc amendment - not the whole bill. The Politico homepage remains unchanged and this is deeply disturbing considering the probability that politicians will use this to claim the bishops have endorsed the bill.]
Branch Rickey on November 7, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Success or failure will not rest on this House vote.
Cindy Munford on November 7, 2009 at 1:22 PM
The Liar in Chief is lying his head off to the American people. He’s way more passionate than he was whilw speaking of the Ft. Hood travesty.
Schadenfreude on November 7, 2009 at 1:24 PM
I have an idea. Why don’t Catholics stop voting for those who sanction mothers killing their own children. Without the Catholic vote Obama would not have won.
Radical huh?
Mojave Mark on November 7, 2009 at 1:31 PM
Stop it. We need hope and hard working bodies and minds.
Are you old enough to remember the years of Carter malaise? It was awful. And then, we kicked Carter out, elected Reagan, and it was Morning in America Again.
So, regardless of what the liberals do, let’s get back to work fighting Obama’s depressing policies.
Just do it!
Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 1:33 PM
Hey Catholic Church, if you folks we’re wondering why I don’t come by anymore…
karl9000 on November 7, 2009 at 1:34 PM
Calm down, it’s just a procedural vote right now. We still have 4 hours of debate and votes on a couple amendments before we get to the final vote.
Wellsy on November 7, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Its important to note that the only people who are supporting this bill are people who think they are going to get some kind of benefit out of it. I can’t see the catholic church being this stupid, but they have pulled some bonehead stuff before.
What I don’t understand is the trial lawyers. They are supporting the bill because there is no tort reform in it. But don’t they realize that if the bill becomes law, within a few years, the government “public option” farce will squeeze private healthcare providers out and the govt will take over the health care of all Americans? If they don’t believe this, they are truly idiots! Who do they think they are going to sue then???? I got news for you, they aren’t going to be able to sue Uncle Sam. It’s amazing how blind foolish greed can make you. Ironically, the bill they are supporting could put them all out of business.
Bikerken on November 7, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Doesn’t it make sense for the GOP to vote against this amendment, thus keeping abortion coverage in the bill and keeping the Pro-Life bluedogs on board to reject the entire bill? Why would the GOP vote for an amendment that will make it easier to get the entire bill passed? Am I missing something here?
Rational Thought on November 7, 2009 at 1:39 PM
They aren’t exactly a hotbed of catholic orthodoxy either. If this is true, as a Catholic I am ashamed, and it probably won’t be the last time either. You just can’t cut a deal with Mammon and expect a good outcome.
Randy
williars on November 7, 2009 at 1:41 PM
The letter here. They call the current bill a failure and ask for two changes, one of which is the Stupak amendment.
The other is total access for illegal aliens.
http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2009/09-228.shtml
Chris_Balsz on November 7, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Watch those Sunday donations go down not only in Catholic churches, but many across the country. Who will have the extra money? How stupid are people?
What happens, when Obama gets this much control? Think it will be enough? Hardly. Watch for more take over, and mandates. Perhaps one that abolishes all religion, and only allows what those great, and wise Dems feel is best for us.
capejasmine on November 7, 2009 at 1:45 PM
Don’t forget the Health Care Board that determines what must be included in acceptable insurance coverage. Anyone willing to bet it won’t mandate abortion coverage?
chemman on November 7, 2009 at 1:46 PM
Many Catholics who vote for these politicians don’t think it’s a sin. For them there is no connection to a vote for a pro-abort and abortion actually occurring.
During the last two elections, I was shocked at the number of Catholics who could vote for pro-abort politicians and then justify it by saying they weren’t voting for abortion, they were voting for something else.
The devil is a liar, the father of liars, he has a firm grip on the consciences of many Christians.
Jvette on November 7, 2009 at 1:47 PM
4 hours to the fall of the Republic.
Jerricho68 on November 7, 2009 at 1:47 PM
This just proves that many repubs support the implementation of the nanny state wrought large.
chemman on November 7, 2009 at 1:48 PM
You are so right about this! In the late seventies, we had ships that were brand new tied up to the pier because they couldn’t recruit enough people to man them. There was no respect for the military, drugs were rampant and almost nobody respected our president. I got out of the Navy in 1980 and went back to west Michigan. It a 22% unemployment rate. Credit card interest rates were in the 20′s, mortgage interest was in the high teens. Jimmy Carter had us driving 55 mph, and freezing our butts off in our own home because “The world will be out of oil in thirty years!” Remember that?? Oh yeah, and also, we would be well into another ice age by now. Malaise is the perfect word to describe how people were feeling about their country back then. It was like being in a bad marriage knowing eventually you are going to have to get a divorce. Then when Reagan came in, the change in the nations mood was amazing and quick. Within a few years, the respect for the military came back like gangbusters. The economy improved steadily through his entire presidency. Interest rates came down and the optimism in the country was palpable. I think the likelihood that this pernicious president who governs while flipping the bird to more than half of this nation will create a mood in this country that will have voters kicking his marxist butt down the road as soon as possible and those childish corrupt democrats with him. He is just stubborn and committed to his socialist agenda to do that. I also think that when he is gone, the country will support a move to undo most of the crap this guy is foisting on the nation in a much more thorough and swift way than we have ever seen before.
Bikerken on November 7, 2009 at 1:54 PM
We still have the Senate to stop this if it passes in the house. We cannot let this vote defeat our opposition.
Jvette on November 7, 2009 at 1:57 PM
Indeed, this will never be reversed (remember Bush trying to reform social security?) and this is just the Trojan horse for unprecedented encrouchment on all kinds of freedoms. Up to 5 years in prison if you don’t buy what some beaurocrat considers adequate insurance? Thank you MSM and Public Schools.
neuquenguy on November 7, 2009 at 2:00 PM
4 hours to
Pelosi’sa sub-lizzard’s orgasm.The Senate is where it’s at.
Schadenfreude on November 7, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Look at it on the bright side: we will probably be the top-ranked 3rd world country, at least for a while.
neuquenguy on November 7, 2009 at 2:04 PM
Hate the sin, love the sinner.
Cicero, On Duties:
Abraham Lincoln:
From the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty, the poem “The New Colossus” by Emma Lazarus:
Finally, Jesus in Luke 10:
What is old is again new, and what is new is old. The Catholic bishops obviously march to a different drummer.
I’m on their side, so your question really ought to be: Why should I support illegality? As for me, I don’t support it — I abhor the law that makes it happen.
unclesmrgol on November 7, 2009 at 2:04 PM
McCain and Graham “gang-of-whatever” here we come…
neuquenguy on November 7, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Sort of silly to demand that rank and file Catholics do what the Church hierarchy only gives lip service support to.
Blake on November 7, 2009 at 2:07 PM
Read the Lincoln post above. It’s even more shameful that the utterance of a Know Nothing came from the pen of a Catholic. Perhaps you should read the letter in its entirety, and see how it fits in with what you hear in the Gospel every Sunday. I think you will find the two are seamless.
unclesmrgol on November 7, 2009 at 2:09 PM
Date 11/3/10 headline and lead story NYT Democrats are at a loss to explain there massive lost of 83 house seat in yesterdays midterm elections.The house will be a lot more conservative next year as 75 of the new Rep. congressmen are described as pro life strict constitution conservatives.Pres Obama now at 35% approval said today he believes he can work with the new congress but the new members said today fat chance we were sent here by the american people to undo much of this socialism as possible .On a side note no one has seen Speaker Pelosi since last night she was spotted in a corner of her office sitting on the floor sucking her thumb crying lake a baby saying this can,t be true i just know the american people love me.
thmcbb on November 7, 2009 at 2:13 PM
From Jim Geraghty at NRO:
I think that explains Nancy’s “concession” quite well.
IrishEi on November 7, 2009 at 2:14 PM
It’s shameful indeed to tell a native-born American he can’t give his loyalty to the United States, because his religion separates him from “America”.
What that has to do with Mexican nationals who want to live here, taking what cash they like, paying what taxes they like, holding what licenses they like, as Mexican citizens voting in Mexican elections, for as long as they choose, I don’t know.
Cicero was a racist!!! He denied aliens a vote.
Chris_Balsz on November 7, 2009 at 2:26 PM
Blue Dog from Tennessee:
They’ll all use this excuse.
Marcus on November 7, 2009 at 2:31 PM
It’s been a long time since any Catholic I know felt represented by the USCCB.
Nichevo on November 7, 2009 at 2:40 PM
Thank you, when I examine my conscience before Mass today I will be sure to keep in mind your posts and points. When I receive Holy Communion it will be in a state of grace.
fourdeucer on November 7, 2009 at 2:42 PM
So what do the Catholic bishops think of death panels and euthanasia?
Log on November 7, 2009 at 2:45 PM
His religion does not separate him from loyalty to the United States. Neither did the religion of those who ran the Underground Railroad, whose activities were found to be unConstitutional by the Taney Court, but who are now revered by us as the quintessential Americans who loved liberty. Nor did the religion of Abraham Lincoln separate him from loyalty to America, in spite of his opposition to slavery, a “right” incorporated in our own Constitution at one point.
If they were legal, they’d pay their taxes. As for whereever they come from, it isn’t something I care about.
I disagree. Aliens (foreigners) should not vote. They must show allegiance to the United States by becoming a citizen before they can do that. So, by your reading, I’m a racist too.
I’m against dual citizenship; possession of a foreign passport by a citizen should be a felony. I’m all for forcing naturalized citizens to formally renounce the citizenship of the country from which they came as a requirement for US Citizenship.
That said, the foreign guest who has no intention of becoming a citizen of our land should be allowed to vote in their own country’s elections.
unclesmrgol on November 7, 2009 at 2:46 PM
I’m not sure what the US Council of Catholic Bishops is up to, but I just heard an interesting position from the rector of the Holy Apostles Seminary in Cromwell, CT. He asked us to call our Congressmen to support the Stupak Amendment, but also railed against the Medicare cuts in the Pelosi bill, and made reference to Sarah Palin’s “death panels” denying people’s right to treatment under a government health insurance plan. Some Catholic priests have figured out the Pelosi bill. It’s not only about killing babies, but also seniors…
Steve Z on November 7, 2009 at 2:50 PM
The problem we have is millions of people who dispute the right of American citizens to set any limits on their movements or earnings.
When you realize that, you will realize why people seem deaf to your appeals to empathy and human dignity before nationalism.
We are not in a situation where we can negotiate a middle ground. We either exert our authority over own own cities and territory, or yield it.
Chris_Balsz on November 7, 2009 at 2:52 PM
I would like to see the Republicans abstain from the vote on abortion. If the Democrats want it in the bill, leave it in. But make it a Democrat only bill. Then try to get the pro-life Democrats to vote against the final bill.
A little gamesmanship is in order.
It is unlikely the Senate can pass the bill with abortion funding included in the bill.
huckleberryfriend on November 7, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Pelosi never expected the abortion provision to remain in the bill. It is just another card she plays very well to make it look like they are conceeding something. Lots of people keep falling for it.
neuquenguy on November 7, 2009 at 3:08 PM
This council of catholic bishops also supports Arabs having the right to blow up Jewish children so I am not sure I would put any evil deed past this very political and very non-Catholic group of secular left wing politicians
georgealbert on November 7, 2009 at 3:13 PM
USCCB Priorities
The bishops choose priority goals for each planning cycle. The proposed priority goals for the 2008-2011 planning cycle are as follows:
Implementation of the pastoral initiative on marriage
Faith formation focused on sacramental practice
Priestly and religious vocations
Life and dignity of the human person
Recognition of cultural diversity with a special emphasis on Hispanic ministry in the spirit of Encuentro 2000
fourdeucer on November 7, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Got a source. Lacking a source, I see yet another Catholic-basher commenting here.
unclesmrgol on November 7, 2009 at 3:20 PM
That is a lie.
Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 3:35 PM
So even if the rider doesn’t survive or is destined to later be overruled in court they are still A-OK with it? They are also A-OK with putting people in prison for 5 years if they disobey Her Royal Majesty.
MB4 on November 7, 2009 at 3:36 PM
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