AP: Recovery? What recovery?
posted at 1:00 pm on November 7, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
The AP has been trying hard to sell the idea of recovery over the last few weeks, but even the AP can’t spin double-digit unemployment. In a piece published last night, they took a decidedly pessimistic tone in reporting the accelerating pace of job losses, using the somewhat ironic headline “What recovery?”
Just when it was beginning to look a little better, the economy relapsed Friday with a return to double-digit unemployment for only the second time since World War II and warnings that next year will be even worse than previously thought.
The jobless rate rocketed to 10.2 percent in October, the highest since early 1983, dealing a psychological blow to Americans as they prepare holiday shopping lists. It was another worse-than-expected report casting a shadow over the struggling recovery.
President Barack Obama called it “a sobering number that underscores the economic challenges that lie ahead.” He signed a measure to extend unemployment benefits and to expand a tax credit for homebuyers.
Economists had not expected the 10 percent mark to come so quickly and immediately darkened their forecasts. Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Economy.com, and Joshua Shapiro, chief U.S. economist at MFR Inc., predicted the rate will peak at 11 percent by mid-2010. They earlier had projected 10.5 percent.
Unemployment at 11 percent would be a post-World War II record. Only once since then has joblessness hit double digits in the United States — from September 1982 to July 1983, topping out at 10.8 percent.
The economy “relapsed”? Not exactly. The unemployment rate has been rising steadily all year long, with a slight and momentary decline in July. The month-over-month increase is the largest since May, and four times as large as the last monthly difference.
So why call it a relapse? The AP has been talking about “recovery” for a couple of months in its financial reporting, which was substantiated by nearly no data at all. The third-quarter GDP gave that meme a boost, but that relied on a couple of major government interventions (Cash for Clunkers and the housing tax credit). It didn’t indicate much genuine private-sector growth at all, which belies any notion of “recovery.”
In fact, the AP has now discovered this:
The survey of companies doesn’t count the self-employed and undercounts employees of small businesses. So the economic picture could be even more dire. …
Troubles for small businesses could have a disproportionate effect on the economy, because they account for about 60 percent of the nation’s jobs. They tend to rely on credit cards and home equity lines — both of which banks have tightened — for cash flow.
The worsening economy — which is what we have — is heavily impacting the engine of new-job growth, small businesses. As reader Geoff A points out, even Obama understood double-digit unemployment as a sign of a wrecked economy … in January, at least, when arguing for his Porkulus bill:
In a radio address Saturday, Obama warned Congress that delay could bring perilous consequences: “If we don’t act swiftly and boldly, we could see a much deeper economic downturn that could lead to double-digit unemployment,” he said.
Well, yes we could — and as the AP belatedly realizes, we haven’t yet seen a recovery at all, even by Obama’s standards.
Blowback
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Well, OK. I believe a public option is needed and would be very good for small business. However, my idea of a public option is a catastrophic/major medical plan that can be purchased through the government. It’s not subsidized in a big way.
It eliminates pre-existing conditions.
That provides workers with portability, lets small business opt out of providing insurance if they wish without giving up all hope of finding anyone but the slugs in society who are willing to work for them without hope of a benefit plan, and could be farmed out to any number of insurance companies who would be more than willing to administer the plan for a fee.
It’s simple. It’s achievable. And it’s needed.
AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 2:34 PM
How about we just cancel everyone’s debt? That oughta help everyone.
But they help re-employ the unemployed. Which isn’t the Democrat way.
justltl on November 7, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Excellent suggestion!
ladyingray on November 7, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Things must really be bad for American Pravda to put out a story like this.
OH NOES!
jukin on November 7, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Thank you Miss Loxodonta. I’m a dude, btw.
DarkCurrent on November 7, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Obama wants to give a shout out to the unemployed:
“Yo! Unemployed! I’m thinkin’ ’bout ya!”
profitsbeard on November 7, 2009 at 2:38 PM
A major medical/catastrophic plan gives a lot of breathing room to real people. It’s not going to pay for your check-ups, your prescriptions, your chiropractor, or even your flu shot. It’s what it says. Major medical, only.
Now, the left would HATE it. They want the cadillac plan.
But you know, I grew up when we all had very simple hospitalization plans only. We paid for doctor’s visits. I think part of the problem with insurance is that it covers darn near everything these days. No wonder small business can’t afford to offer it anymore.
AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Having said all this, not one person in America agrees with me. LOL*
But thank you for letting me share! :)
AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 2:39 PM
You, if you can’t explain to us in detail how tax cuts lead to unemployment.
And did you forget Bush isn’t president now and that the Congress has been controlled by Dems for the last 3 years?
DarkCurrent on November 7, 2009 at 2:39 PM
Connect the dots
CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 2:40 PM
There is no recovery. the deadbeats are still deadbeating every way they can. Sitting around waiting on their king to give them more handouts. There is a rebellion brewing in this country and a day of reckoning for those who brought this on! He may be clean and articulate but he is as dumb as a rock. No more stinky for me.
bluegrass on November 7, 2009 at 2:41 PM
Dark….Many of these types are ignorant of that fact. In fact it was common among Obama voters.
CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 2:41 PM
I know one but he is in rehab
/
CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 2:42 PM
No worries, some people here in China still agree with you.
Not many, but some of the slower ones.
DarkCurrent on November 7, 2009 at 2:42 PM
Hey, don’t knock the rehabs. Once they stop seeing bugs, they make a more sense than some on the internet on Saturday nights. *haha
AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 2:44 PM
FAIL. The Bush tax cuts demonstrably worked: following the downturn after 9/11, there were five years of economic growth. Note this same pattern on a larger scale following the Reagan tax cuts. ODDLY, things started to go south not long after…. HMMMM, the Democrats took over Congress on 2006. If you need an explanation of the housing bubble, it’s going to take too long to catch you up, so no dice.
What kills me is that most economics is logic (as stated above – I have no formal training, and yet it seems I predicted unemployment far more accurately than the AP), and yet liberals refuse to employ it.
Animator Girl on November 7, 2009 at 2:47 PM
“… worse than expected…”
Only if you’ve been drinking the Obama koolaide; those of us in the real world ‘expected’ this, predicted this, have seen this coming for months, thank you very much.
Midas on November 7, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Telling the truth would be so much easier. When one lies, it’s hard to remember what has been said and spin like this makes you look like a fool.
conservative pilgrim on November 7, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Midas on November 7, 2009 at 2:48 PM
and roger that.
ted c on November 7, 2009 at 2:50 PM
The only thing you’re correct about is that Bush is out-of-office, Mr. DarkCurrent. Were his policies repealed? I think not. While the Bush argument concerning what Obama is doing now is mostly unwarranted, it is also true that policies enacted under Bush’s watch that remain in effect today are, indeed, fair game.
The CJ Political Report on November 7, 2009 at 2:50 PM
When you’ve lost
CronkiteAP, you’ve lost the war.This seems inevitable, really. The Dems put up a candidate, billed him as a certain thing, and are now eating their elbows, as my Italian mom used to say.
The libs had high hopes but their guy is an epic fail. Obama is turning out to be more a burden to the Dems than McCain was/is to the Pubs.
More than how much the Dems are kicking themselves, I wonder how all those independents who voted for him are tying nooses for their own (figurative) suicides. Not even a year into his Administration, Obama’s basically a lame duck. He can’t unite even his own Party let alone a great Nation. The MSM is turning slowly against him; the wheel of justice grinds slow but it grinds small.
Liam on November 7, 2009 at 2:51 PM
Let’s not pretend Barry actually wants recovery. More and more people out of work, losing their benefits (health care!), becoming desperate, will have no place to go for help other than… ta-daaa! Big brother. And how easy it would become for them to take as much control of our lives through passage of health care reform, cap n tax, etc., while the country is at the lowest of the low. Their whacked out ideology (America is no more exceptional than other country) prevents them from even comprehending the resiliency of the American people though and that’s just too bad for them. I can’t wait til 2010…
SoxNation on November 7, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Methinks, this is on the money, its all about about having leverage to coerce us into compliance. I keep haring on it, but I think our last progressive (Wilson) president’s words sums up the dictatorial nature of what we can expect from current “One”,
“Conformity will be the only virtue and any man who refuses to conform will have to pay the penalty.”
Kind of reminds you of Queen Nancy’s 5yrs imprisonment if you don’t “conform” to her healthcare plan.
On many different fronts the progressives are turning the screws ever tighter, closing the noose on our freedoms every where you look.
http://papundits.wordpress.com/2009/08/03/the-3rd-coast-and-the-3rd-world/
“Obama and his Chicago goumbahs who now occupy the White House on Rush St. are an otherworldly mix of Orwell meets Guido”.
Archimedes on November 7, 2009 at 2:51 PM
these guys are revisionist historians. They’re a tabula raza every day. What happened yesterday doesn’t matter today. If it’s related, then its spun into how it was a good decision, helpful or contributory to their cause. It requires a complete and utter disregard for the truth and a complete suspension of disbelief.
ted c on November 7, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Hate to admit this — I’m self-employed and suffering from a surfeit of work just now. I know, boo-hoo-hoo and world’s tiniest violin, and so on. But the thing is: I have no employees and don’t plan to (on the John Gault principle). Thus my overhead is very low and I’m very cost effective for certain types of work. My clients are other small businesses that generally do have at least a few employees. Howsomever, they are using my services instead of hiring direct employees to do the work. Great for me — not so great for the overall employment picture. I’m on the west coast, stealing ur jobz.
starboardhelm on November 7, 2009 at 2:52 PM
2nd stimulus or bust!
SouthernGent on November 7, 2009 at 2:53 PM
Well, There’s your Problem!
Juno77 on November 7, 2009 at 2:56 PM
And we’re the only paying attention to notice it. The general public that doesn’t follow politics this closely never knows the difference, generally speaking. WHAT WILL IT TAKE FOR THEM TO WAKE UP?
conservative pilgrim on November 7, 2009 at 2:58 PM
is that you, crr6? You’re as obtuse as crap6 is, and about as addicted to Talking Points. Don’t you think you’d feel a lot more comfy on Kos or DU ??
Janos Hunyadi on November 7, 2009 at 2:58 PM
FIFY
Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Seems like the ’30s all over again….
I guess the “New FDR” will keep trying the same failed big-government policies for about the next 8 years, and hope that a global war drags us out of depression?
notropis on November 7, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Try connecting the dots as CWforFreedom suggested. I’ll bet you can’t, because you are in fact a nitwit.
DarkCurrent on November 7, 2009 at 3:01 PM
Dark Current you beat me to it +1
CJ you know you are just rambling. Why don’t you go sell it to your buds at HUFFPO or the DU.
CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 3:06 PM
The irony of course being that the action thus taken probably caused the double-digit unemployment.
Count to 10 on November 7, 2009 at 3:08 PM
Good for you — you are helping the economy more than I am.
Count to 10 on November 7, 2009 at 3:11 PM
The only recovery is the recovery of more and more of the people who were infatuated with Bozo Isuzu.
MB4 on November 7, 2009 at 3:12 PM
starboardhelm on November 7, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Great! Just be sure to do some horse trading while you’re at it. Starve the beast!
graywaiter on November 7, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Ann, with all due respect, do you have any CLUE as to the breadth and depth of government “oversight and regulation” of the health care industry that already exists? Please.
Folks, this is a payoff for the unions’ legacy costs of lifetime health care for its workers. Their system is bankrupt, so they will foist it upon the backs of the taxpaying citizenry. Wake up. The Union agreements that were made in the 60′s cannot be sustained economically so it is Obama to the rescue.
Key West Reader on November 7, 2009 at 3:13 PM
It fits their election stratagee to assume that government spending pushes the economy back into growth after a downturn. Without that, they are nothing.
Count to 10 on November 7, 2009 at 3:14 PM
Recovering from mass delusion.
Count to 10 on November 7, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Dark Current…how long does it take for The CJ Political Report to connect the dots?
/
CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 3:16 PM
CWforFreedom – I don’t think CJ can even find the dots
DarkCurrent on November 7, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Obviously the stimulus just wasnt large enough…too much of the money got bogged down administrativley and never made it out the door. Now that we know what will happen we should be able to accurately estimate the amount that will be lost and account for it by increasing the stimilus money accordingly. Dang!!!! That was easy. :)
Koa on November 7, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Cj- if you are still there you and I both know you don’t know what you are talking about.
CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 3:20 PM
A good friend on mine works for a real estate consulting firm in NYC. One of his deals is evaluating a client’s investment in an insolvent commercial property. The deal has $110 million bank loan funded by Bank of America. My friend said the property is worth $30-40 million. What I found interesting, and which confirms that banks are not even close to marking their assets properly, is that my buddy said that B of A is carrying the loan on its books at the full $110 million.
I just did a “drive-by” on B of A’s latest 10-Q. It has $2.1 trillion in assets, not including cash. It is reporting $257 billion of shareholder equity. Now, BAC is over-marking the above-referenced asset by 70%. Assume across all of its assets, BAC is being generous in its marks by only 10%. This exercise implies that a true mark-to-market of BAC’s balance sheet would wipe out BAC’s shareholder equity.
Is this unrealistic? I think, if anything, my analysis errs in the favor of BAC. Why? BAC has $159 billion of home equity loans on its books. We know that, in general, most home equity loans are probably worth nothing. Let’s say BAC’s are worth 50 cents on the dollar (this is generous). That adjustment alone would reduce BAC’s book value by nearly $80 billion.
This whole exercise was started after my “catch up time” phone call with one of my best friends from NYC. After I got off the phone I realized that I had just received an inside look at how distorted the book value of just one of BAC’s non-menial commercial loan assets was. Based on this simple analysis, I truly believe that if we could do an accurate forensic accounting at all the big banks, especially Goldman, JPM and Citi, it could be shown that they are all fraudulently overvaluing their assets and thus catastrophically insolvent.
KentAllard on November 7, 2009 at 3:21 PM
Obama and Pelosi will not be successful until the deficit is totally borrowed or printed.
jukin on November 7, 2009 at 3:22 PM
Uh, babygirl?
Less government means you are more free. And, really, you’re obviously a woman who wants more and better for herself. Government isn’t the way to accomplish that.
But you already know; you’re as far from being silly as East is from West.
I get you, after reading you for months: You are evolving and that’s hard, being dragged from past beliefs to new ones.
Keep going the way you are. Keep an open mind, and your intelligence will keep going the way you set it. There’s no going back now, sweetheart.
Liam on November 7, 2009 at 3:30 PM
A loan on a property that is “underwater” is still worth its original amount as long as the borrower continues to pay. It is only in the case of foreclosure that it loses value.
Count to 10 on November 7, 2009 at 3:31 PM
Again, Ann… with all due respect:
Let’s say I live in a flood zone and I choose not to purchase flood insurance. Here comes a hurricane. I just call 1-800-Obama and boom! I have flood insurance. For a flood that is fast approaching.
I don’t want to call you stupid, so I will just call you uninformed.
“Insurance” is a method to reduce risk by pooling the money of many to insure against risk, knowing that many will not experience a loss. Hence, the name “insurance”. Now, Obamacare is nothing other than another progressive agenda. Ann? Would you like to get your next gyno exam at the DMV?
No? Me either.
Key West Reader on November 7, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Get with the program, people. There IS a recovery. The recession has ended at least 4 times since it started, maybe as many as 8 times, depending on which news channel you watch.
Daggett on November 7, 2009 at 3:44 PM
This is true. A representative from Chase candidly told me that BOA is going down in flames. Commercial Real Estate is the next shoe to drop. From there, consumer credit will dry up and then we’re done. Welcome to ObamaLand. Everything is free. All are welcome. Walk into the light. Everything is free. Except WE.
Key West Reader on November 7, 2009 at 3:46 PM
Needed by whom? Certainly not the elderly who make up the majority of healthcare neeeds as they are already adequately covered by medicare.
docdave on November 7, 2009 at 3:52 PM
The 30′s again??!! If we can get back to those great cars and the ability to own a Thompson I’m game.
Jeff from WI on November 7, 2009 at 3:57 PM
Rejoice! Bad News for America=Good News for the Party of No! You may have lost your only national race but you’ve got a winner here! Congratulations!
simplesimon on November 7, 2009 at 3:57 PM
I believe much of what you wrote is in the republican’s plan for reform, if they were only listened to by the crazy liberals. Portability and maintenance at the individual level is the key feature, and would eliminate the issue of preexisting conditions.
ray on November 7, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Looks like pimplesimian is back to his contentless monkeychants. LOL, silly little pimply simian covered in liberal poo.
ray on November 7, 2009 at 4:08 PM
So how stuck on stupid are these people? If we havent’ realized yet that Obama has no intentions , or desires in seeing the economy recover. Only poverty, and want by all citizens will do. We need to be purged of our sins, for working hard, struggling, and playing by the rules. How dare we have money, so we can pay taxes so others can sit, and whine about the injustice of that.
capejasmine on November 7, 2009 at 4:09 PM
It was a national race ….in NY ?
I didn’t even get to vote.
/
VA and NJ sure stung didn’t it.
CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Hey, it’s not like we didn’t warn you or anything. It’s the economy stupid, as you’re favorite randy rounder used to say.
BTW, I’m in the party of hell no.
Mojave Mark on November 7, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Simplesimon
The party of no?
http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare
CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Obama could probably start a real recovery if he simply announced that he no longer wants a health-care bill or a cap-and-trade bill. The prospect of tax hikes and mandates for two trillion-dollar albatrosses is probably restraining investment.
Two other ideas that could work: extend the Bush tax cuts beyond 2010, or cut the corporate tax rate to 15%.
But Obama would never do either of those things–it’s against his religion to do anything the EEEEEEEVIL Bush did, and the corporate tax cut was suggested by John McCain.
Steve Z on November 7, 2009 at 4:18 PM
For an idea, friend, can we just ignore for once the abuse he heaps on us? We don’t deserve abuse, we’re good people.
We have nothing to defend, and he seeks to browbeat us, always using bait-and-switch, to justify himself. He has nothing, while have a basis he lacks.
Please, I ask you and the rest of us, to just ignore him. We always state our case and having nothing to defend. Let him, that self-decided prosecution–make his case and acquit himself.
You, me, and all the other good people here need no longer to be on the defensive.
Liam on November 7, 2009 at 4:20 PM
The man could give a chit less about you and yours. As long as he gets his he’s fine. You? Well, you suck.
Griz on November 7, 2009 at 4:21 PM
The US economy is getting Barry depressed.
Pun intended.
Really Right on November 7, 2009 at 4:25 PM
Agreed. But the government doesn’t need to be involved. That could be achieved by allowing health insurance to be purchased across state lines, and not allowing states, such as the big blue states that do now, mandate that health insurance be bumper to bumper, everything covered with a $5 co-pay. And some serious tort reform on top of that, like we have here in Texas, would drive costs down even more. But the left won’t allow it.
Major medical, catastrophic policies, and an HSA would go a long way toward affordable insurance, if only those in the way would allow it.
And OT, AnninCA is catching a lot of undeserved flack. Let’s try to comment on what she says, rather than knee-jerk dissing her, assuming she’s wrong without listening. She’s moving in the right direction, lets not discourage that.
iurockhead on November 7, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Thank you CJ. I was trying to find a perfect example of a Post Hoc fallacy to show my son, and there you went and came up with a texbook example.
Parting question for you: MA and NY have dramatically raised taxes on their wealthiest citizens. In the wake of those increases, any idea why tax revenue is declining among those groups in those states?
Kataklysmic on November 7, 2009 at 4:37 PM
As an off shoot, how about requiring the insurance companies to set aside* ½ of 1%* of the policy premiums to cover catastrophic/major medical/ pre-existing conditions.
Who controls this money would be a problem.
If the government controlled it you can be assured it will be used for “other things”.
*** Wild guess I have no idea what the real numbers would look like***
DSchoen on November 7, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Now BleedsBlue, on the other hand, deserves the flack. Fire away.
iurockhead on November 7, 2009 at 4:38 PM
I need to know something, among us here on HA…
Why do we indulge the counter-bloggers here, those who do nothing but insult us? The trolls, as we cal them, use tactics we all know and I, among others, have made clear.
Why do we indulge them, why do we engage a battle where they keep changing the rules and details, to browbeat us to exhaustion?
Realistically, we have nothing to prove. We are clear about our various beliefs, and we all have an individual basis for what we hold dear. All that has been fair and honest; we stand to ourselves without apologies.
Unlike the counter-posters, we respect each other as Citizens. Some of us are Christians of the various Denominations. Some are Jewish. Others are atheists. But, in that mix, we talk together with respect and a hope for a common ground.
The trolls here hate that idea, so they come with denigration in their hearts from the outset, to slander us. Their tactics are all the same, and I think it’s a bad idea we give them any kind of credence. Engaging them is worthless, for they seek to beat people down to ‘win’ something.
The trolls here aren’t wanting to change minds. Those who invade our space are individuals seeking gratification. That is, basically, the nature of modern liberalism.
They insult for openers, seeking a win by any means necessary. Just this morning, a lib avoided my point by calling my mom a troll.
That’s all they have. That, and absolving mass murderers and cop killers while refusing genuine concepts of right and wrong, while claiming some moral high ground while moving the goalpost of ethics and time-tested morality.
Please friends–don’t speak to the trolls here. They’ll bait you and change their stories, seeking to win for their own personal gratification. They don’t want to persuade you to their side. They feel need to have their hate justified.
Want them to go away at last? Ignore them and it’s done.
Liam on November 7, 2009 at 4:44 PM
More specifically, the self-employed who are proprietors and “1099 employees” do not qualify for UC benefits, so they are tough to count when they go jobless. I think there are, or were, more than 10 million 1099 employees when all this got started.
This group is consistently overlooked, even by the right, when discussing this topic.
And as for the last part about small business credit, that’s an Administration meme that just won’t go away because it never even gets challenged.
Let me clear, the biggest problem for small businesses and the self-employed is taxes, not the availability of credit.. Take a look at how taxes, especially the FICA tax, is applied to this group for answers..
Also small businesses rely on customers for cash flow first and foremost. Relying on loans for “cash flow” is obviously not a sound business model.
forest on November 7, 2009 at 4:45 PM
I have a challenge for you, Deb. Please honor us with a rational, thoughtful, intelligent, lengthy post here. At least 3 or 4 paragraphs’ worth–not just the 2-3 simple grade-school sentences you constantly throw out.
Can you do it? My guess is no, which means I have already won.
Thanks for playing, Race Fan! How about that Leftist Paul Newman and his racing team?
Del Dolemonte on November 7, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Unfortunately, we’re all kind of like 3rd graders at a sleepover.
Dad yells down into the basement for us all to shut up and go to sleep, and that lasts just about until we’re all asleep, and then someone makes a fart joke, and the whole thing starts over.
I guess it’s just the nature of blogs.
notropis on November 7, 2009 at 5:01 PM
Obama ready for new stimulus ?
William Amos on November 7, 2009 at 5:13 PM
IZ THIS RACISTZ?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yc-Lk62n49w/Sut4_S581lI/AAAAAAAACzs/PHEcltw4ux4/s1600/Barack%2BObama%2BBeer.jpg
Sharke on November 7, 2009 at 5:15 PM
If it’s so obvious, then they should be banned.
ray on November 7, 2009 at 5:16 PM
The Empty Suit went up to the Hill to pitch the PelosiScareBill as (yet again) a moment “to make history.” Congress would be wiser “to make history” by defeating the bill and preventing national bankruptcy.
onlineanalyst on November 7, 2009 at 5:16 PM
Thanks Liam. My thoughts exactly.
Griz on November 7, 2009 at 5:26 PM
But printing money is fun…!
Seven Percent Solution on November 7, 2009 at 5:27 PM
Who let the trolls out?
Let’s turn this into a teachable moment to understand the mindless DNC drone. You’ll note that there isn’t a single original thought in the above post.
This is the whole, the GOP wants to see America go down because they hate the filthy lying coward.
This is a particularly funny talking point because it simply isn’t true. The filthy lying coward and his party want to distract from the fact that they lost in both NJ and VA despite all the political capital that was put into those elections. And it wasn’t even close. Therefore, they focus on NY-23 as the “only national election” where their guy won by a hair. They completely ignore the other special Congressional election (always a sure bet for the corrupt Dems) because it sounds so much better to say that the sole “national election” went their way. It really is pathetic these mental midgets are clinging to this election but nobody said Democrats were intelligent- just look at the idiot in the White House, our first President hired to fill a quota.
This is false bravado by the poster. It doesn’t really have well wishes but is fearful of the future because it knows that the public is rejecting the filthy lying coward’s policies.
highhopes on November 7, 2009 at 5:28 PM
I don’t believe we are.
The body of the people here have a lot of love, which the libs who bother us lack that. Those libs spew nothing but hate and vitriol, refusing to engage a discussion of ideas. The libs coming here, who have shown desperate hate of us, do so just to cause a stir. That’s not right, it’s a form of evil.
I’ve seen libs spew venom against people here who are hurting at the moment. Just when another human being is in need, a lib will seek to tear that soul apart. Just to make a point, just to be right.
Blogs are an abstract, they’re not a real thing. The only thing real is what people post on blogs.
What I find here on HA is a lot of decency, as written by those regulars. No, we don’s always agree on a point but, there’s a lot of decency among us.
We’re Jews, Christians, Poles, Italians, Germans–the whole world captured here in America. We’re all a free people, who have come to care about each other. We embrace other ideas, even liberal, if we can have a discussion. But slander is NOT some kind of nature among bloggers.
There are people who hate, most from the Left. Such people are not welcome, not wanted among us.
I’ll exclude myself in this: For the most part, people who post here are of good character, and worthy of all respect. Their character is proven to me, and if I ever have to take up a gun to protect hawkdriver, Cindy Munford, progressoverpeace, and so may others, I’ll get between them and a thousand bullets.
And, too, AnninCA.
People here have a camaraderie. We accept though we may not always love.
The libs who post here are full of nothing but hate.
There’s no sadness among us. But there’s a lament for those who hate us.
Liam on November 7, 2009 at 5:29 PM
Let me clarify:
Unfortunately, we’re all kind of like 3rd graders at a sleepover, when it comes to responding to trolls.
It’s just too darn tempting to bash ‘em around a bit. It’s like yelling at the TV when some liberal doofus is on, except there’s the possibility they may actually hear you.
notropis on November 7, 2009 at 5:37 PM
Please speak for yourself. Many here have tried responding to counter-posters like adults but the counter-poster have acted like children.
What happens? The counter-posters act like third-graders.
Are you going to condemn them, instead of claiming those who counter them are the third-graders?
You just just gave yourself away.
Liam on November 7, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Well put.
A lament indeed. They are to be pitied.
Some other forums like this actually have had Leftist posters who have had a modicum of intelligence and rationality. But even they were not immune from the occasional lapse into temporary insanity.
What is so scary is that they do not seem to realize how dumb their posts appear.
Del Dolemonte on November 7, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Cruel, Redneck Thoughts
This country has needed a good depression for years. Even better with the Media’s Mesiah and a load of dog waste Dems in there.
It is sad that the AP isn’t still selling the Kool Aid on this. The morons who voted for this bunch of swine, in the words of Al Davis, “need to go down and need to go down hard”. Notice that they didn’t start the piece with any remarks about the gallant efforts of their heroes.
Why doesn’t The One just outlaw healthcare and declare a war on it? Such programs worked so well on poverty, drugs, pornography, illegal gambling, terror….
IlikedAUH2O on November 7, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Sshhhhh..I am trying to descend to the level of the trolls and Bush bashers so that you guys will stop having pity on them.
IlikedAUH2O on November 7, 2009 at 5:49 PM
So true. Mainly, they ignore us, because they can’t refute our facts.
“Facts” are something they their political philosophy is totally without-that’s why they have to constantly lie about who they really are.
Hence, they aren’t “liberals” now, they’re “progressives”.
And while Iraq had WMDs and was in cahoots with bin Laden in 1998, both of those truths mysteriously vanished in January of 2001.
They truly are reality-challenged. Sad.
Del Dolemonte on November 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM
I can’t really pity those who willfully choose the lowest common denominator. And, less, those who choose willful ignorance and conscientious stupidity. That seems the way of so many counter-posters here.
Sad and disgusting, really. They fell into lib notions and refuse to rise even to themselves, let alone above.
Liam on November 7, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Finally, CNN Money floated an article the other day entitled Health Insurance tax = higher wages?
The observation of this has led me to whole new theories about the limitations of the human brain.
IlikedAUH2O on November 7, 2009 at 5:54 PM
You have seem to have some serious reading comprehension problems.
So I’ll try one last time.
I have no idea what you might possibly mean by “you just gave yourself away.” As what? An occasionally immature responder to childish troll posts? Yep, guilty as charged.
Why you insist on the label “counter-posters” is also beyond me. They’re trolls. Everybody knows what that means.
Yes they say childish stupid stuff. That’s what they do. That’s why what they’re doing got the label “trolling.” That’s why intelligent adult responses are usually wasted. That’s why it’s so tempting to respond it in kind. That’s why so many do. Any response, whether intelligent or childish, is the “bite” they’re looking for, and they really don’t care the quality of the response. And we all know it; but someone will always take the bait. It’s inevitable.
Yes, it’s annoying when they hijack a thread, and yes, they are best ignored. And yes, on certain threads, what they do is way beyond any semblance of decency or good taste.
I’m just pointing out why it is that your good advice is not, nor will likely ever be, followed.
And, I agree, there’s no way what AnnInCA does (for example) can be labeled “trolling.” It’s too sincere. It’s too fair. It’s honest dialog from someone who has a different point of view. It’s refreshing.
notropis on November 7, 2009 at 5:55 PM
I believe an important aspect of online posting has been ignored. Like Walter Mitty or some of the more aggressive drivers on the road, these people have a split personality. They are different in real life than they are
when the ordinary societal conventions are suspended by the internet. They can be whomever they want to be and they take on a different persona.
To a certain extent I put myself in this category. My views are pretty much the same but when dealing with the people in my life, I seldom use the term “filthy lying coward” to describe the current resident of the White House. But then again, some of my co-workers actually call him far worse than that so maybe I don’t have to.
highhopes on November 7, 2009 at 5:56 PM
My take is that the MSM was constantly saying “RECESSION, RECESSION, RECESSION” during the Bush years, and they believe they got one. Now they think saying “RECOVERY, RECOVERY, RECOVERY” will bring the economy back.
GarandFan on November 7, 2009 at 5:57 PM
A good place to post the age-old observation that there is no such thing as “Idiot Proof” because you can never underestimate the ingenuity of the idiot.
highhopes on November 7, 2009 at 5:59 PM
I misread you, and I apologize. I went to fast in my reading and didn’t pay right attention. My fault.
Again, I apologize.
I’m using the term ‘counter-posters’ for a reason. The trolls hate being called trolls, so they use that as a point against us. I seek to disarm them of a few bullets, so to speak. It’s a tactic, to take from their arguments.
Just an idea.
Again, I apologize for misreading you.
Liam on November 7, 2009 at 6:01 PM
I agree with your post and have begged people to not respond to them many times. It is just too hard for many, including myself sometimes to not say something. Also I suspect trolls, as long as they do not cross a certain line are good for HA business. They tend to make the total number of comments higher than they would be without them.
kahall on November 7, 2009 at 6:01 PM
The government BTW is still giving away down payments (with your money) to people who can’t afford houses. In a year, we will be bailing out the lenders… again.
They’re Buying Votes with Your Money
PattyJ on November 7, 2009 at 6:02 PM
No problem. I don’t make myself very clear a lot of times.
And I agree 100% with your analysis, and I’d never thought of it that “troll” becomes a badge of honor.
Good point.
notropis on November 7, 2009 at 6:03 PM
And Dorothy clicked her ruby slippers and “Wished [she] was home.” And we all clapped to show we believed in Tinkerbell. Thinking that pretending there is a recovery will make it happen is just another fairytale as is the administration’s spin that unemployment is a lagging indicator and should be ignored.
highhopes on November 7, 2009 at 6:03 PM
Oh, the souls I want to tear apart, too! I so often feel the same thing; we’re in the same boat.
the only thing that keeps me somewhat quiet if that reason and liberalism are diametrical opposites.
Liam on November 7, 2009 at 6:07 PM
Libtards are just exercised that their favorite networks and
“newspapers” are crashing and burning, and that their messiah is a feckless, bumbling, waffler who has pretty much fu(ked up everything he has touched, even when generously given do-overs by the press.
They are bitter that they are so shallow as to be unable to penetrate the pathetic MSM smokescreen that shielded their stooge throughout the campaign and the last 9 months of bungling stupidity.
They focus their juvenile outrage and hyperventilation on a cable network they claim is irrelevant, and on politicians and public figures they claim are imbeciles and nobodies. They bring their projected self-hate and animosity here, among other places, in search of some pathetic, bitter, catharsis that, sadly, will forever be their “torment of Tantalus”.
The funny thing about these kool-aid drinkers is that they aren’t even aware that they are their own most savage parodies. It’s actually merciful that they are so oblivious: no doubt if they were aware that so many were laughing at them, they would be deeply hurt.
mr.blacksheep on November 7, 2009 at 6:09 PM
Thank you for accepting my apology.
Liam on November 7, 2009 at 6:09 PM
That’s how it always works, and that’s how we’ve gotten to where we are now. It almost makes the case for Libertarianism on its own.
mr.blacksheep on November 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM
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