AP: Recovery? What recovery?

posted at 1:00 pm on November 7, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The AP has been trying hard to sell the idea of recovery over the last few weeks, but even the AP can’t spin double-digit unemployment.  In a piece published last night, they took a decidedly pessimistic tone in reporting the accelerating pace of job losses, using the somewhat ironic headline “What recovery?”

Just when it was beginning to look a little better, the economy relapsed Friday with a return to double-digit unemployment for only the second time since World War II and warnings that next year will be even worse than previously thought.

The jobless rate rocketed to 10.2 percent in October, the highest since early 1983, dealing a psychological blow to Americans as they prepare holiday shopping lists. It was another worse-than-expected report casting a shadow over the struggling recovery.

President Barack Obama called it “a sobering number that underscores the economic challenges that lie ahead.” He signed a measure to extend unemployment benefits and to expand a tax credit for homebuyers.

Economists had not expected the 10 percent mark to come so quickly and immediately darkened their forecasts. Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Economy.com, and Joshua Shapiro, chief U.S. economist at MFR Inc., predicted the rate will peak at 11 percent by mid-2010. They earlier had projected 10.5 percent.

Unemployment at 11 percent would be a post-World War II record. Only once since then has joblessness hit double digits in the United States — from September 1982 to July 1983, topping out at 10.8 percent.

The economy “relapsed”?  Not exactly.  The unemployment rate has been rising steadily all year long, with a slight and momentary decline  in July.  The month-over-month increase is the largest since May, and four times as large as the last monthly difference.

So why call it a relapse?  The AP has been talking about “recovery” for a couple of months in its financial reporting, which was substantiated by nearly no data at all.  The third-quarter GDP gave that meme a boost, but that relied on a couple of major government interventions (Cash for Clunkers and the housing tax credit).  It didn’t indicate much genuine private-sector growth at all, which belies any notion of “recovery.”

In fact, the AP has now discovered this:

The survey of companies doesn’t count the self-employed and undercounts employees of small businesses. So the economic picture could be even more dire. …

Troubles for small businesses could have a disproportionate effect on the economy, because they account for about 60 percent of the nation’s jobs. They tend to rely on credit cards and home equity lines — both of which banks have tightened — for cash flow.

The worsening economy — which is what we have — is heavily impacting the engine of new-job growth, small businesses.  As reader Geoff A points out, even Obama understood double-digit unemployment as a sign of a wrecked economy … in January, at least, when arguing for his Porkulus bill:

In a radio address Saturday, Obama warned Congress that delay could bring perilous consequences: “If we don’t act swiftly and boldly, we could see a much deeper economic downturn that could lead to double-digit unemployment,” he said.

Well, yes we could — and as the AP belatedly realizes, we haven’t yet seen a recovery at all, even by Obama’s standards.

Blowback

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If only the stimulus bill was larger!

Nice post, Ed. Especially this paragraph: So why call it a relapse? [...] You hit the nail on the head.

Spirit of 1776 on November 7, 2009 at 1:03 PM

From 4.5% unemployment under Bush and the Republican congress to 17.5% (real) unemployment under Obama and the Democrats. That is quite a bit of change their folks.

18-1 on November 7, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Hey, what about a second stimulus!

More of the same….’cept even bigger and more insanely expensive than the first. Yeah, that ought to do it.

JoeinTX on November 7, 2009 at 1:04 PM

There’s obviously no recovery. Tarp merely slowed down the misery. Stimulus merely spared gov’t workers from experiencing what others are going through.

And there’s no sign that anything will change. The economy was built on sand. There is no foundation.

I will say that I’m glad for the lessening of the shock factor.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:06 PM

These left wing “news” entities are running out of excuses for Obama and simply can’t prop him up anymore. This economy is stagnant at best and is getting worse as each day passes. After these fools pass their “healthcare” legislation everyone can brace themselves for the total destruction of our economy and our Republic.

rplat on November 7, 2009 at 1:06 PM

Of course there is a recovery Sherriff Joe Biden told me so

William Amos on November 7, 2009 at 1:07 PM

Obama’s Stimulus: Joblessness saved or created.

Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 1:07 PM

Now Let Me Be Clear™: If we do not pass the stimulus, unemployment could go over, uh, uh, 8%.
Now Let Me Be Clear™: There are those who will lie and claim my Healthcare Plan™ will fund abortions, or “Undocumented Citizens™”.
Now Let Me Be Clear™: Nobody wants to pull the plug on Grandma.

roscopico on November 7, 2009 at 1:08 PM

Just when it was beginning to look a little better we couldn’t lie with a straight face any longer, the economic relapsed truth biaatch slapped us here at the AP on Friday with a return to double-digit unemployment for only the second time since World War II and warnings that next year will be even worse than previously thought for our efforts here at carrying water and slob gobbling the White House.

FIFY Associated Press.

ted c on November 7, 2009 at 1:08 PM

Consumer borrowing drops by $14.8 billion in September, record 8th straight decline

AP

artist on November 7, 2009 at 1:09 PM

Green shoots!

John the Libertarian on November 7, 2009 at 1:09 PM

Funny. Obama calls the numbers “sobering” right before the Friday night hooplah party at the white house. Nice going, a$$munch.

Key West Reader on November 7, 2009 at 1:11 PM

Well, yes we could — and as the AP belatedly realizes, we haven’t yet seen a recovery at all, even by Obama’s standards.

Standards? What standards. That statement expired that day. We are supposed to get used to the “new normal” and hit the “reset button” for what we fundamentally think the economy and jobs forecasts ought to look like.

They’re just easing us into the reeducation camp style training.

ted c on November 7, 2009 at 1:11 PM

Consumer borrowing drops by $14.8 billion in September, record 8th straight decline

AP

artist on November 7, 2009 at 1:09 PM

were those numbers obtained during the recovery, or the relapse? If you could be perfectly clear, we’d appreciate that.
//s/

ted c on November 7, 2009 at 1:12 PM

They’re just easing us into the reeducation camp style training.

ted c on November 7, 2009 at 1:11 PM

Now, Ted. You know the word isn’t “easing”… It’s “nudging”. LOL

Key West Reader on November 7, 2009 at 1:12 PM

It’s almost like raising the federal minimum wage makes unemployment go up. Surely there’s no correlation there.

JohnJ on November 7, 2009 at 1:12 PM

I yearn for the good old days when the SRM would spin 5% unemployment and decificits in the billions as disastrous.

farright on November 7, 2009 at 1:13 PM

Hey, what about a second stimulus!
More of the same….’cept even bigger and more insanely expensive than the first. Yeah, that ought to do it.
JoeinTX on November 7, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Keep in mind the bulk of Porkulus hasn’t been doled out yet…it’s intended to buy votes next year….and imagine how dead Obamacare would be right now if that big ol’ carrot wasn’t a part of the present Pelosi arm twisting.

Patrick S on November 7, 2009 at 1:13 PM

The Won on Capital Hill trying to destroy our Economy.

A former President and First Lady acting well….Presidential

Caper29 on November 7, 2009 at 1:14 PM

Now, Ted. You know the word isn’t “easing”… It’s “nudging”. LOL

Key West Reader on November 7, 2009 at 1:12 PM

Hehehe. Is that the vernacular Bawwney Fwank whispers over some dude’s shoulder…”just a widdle nudge…..!”

yeeikes!

ted c on November 7, 2009 at 1:14 PM

Let’s not pretend Barry actually wants recovery. More and more people out of work, losing their benefits (health care!), becoming desperate, will have no place to go for help other than… ta-daaa! Big brother. And how easy it would become for them to take as much control of our lives through passage of health care reform, cap n tax, etc., while the country is at the lowest of the low. Their whacked out ideology (America is no more exceptional than other country) prevents them from even comprehending the resiliency of the American people though and that’s just too bad for them. I can’t wait til 2010…

SoxNation on November 7, 2009 at 1:15 PM

….and yes the plan worked as the economy continues it’s free fall crushing all in it’s path toward the bottom to which they can finally exclaim ” the United Sates is DEAD.”

Now, who want’s cake?

larvcom on November 7, 2009 at 1:16 PM

There’s obviously no recovery. Tarp merely slowed down the misery. Stimulus merely spared gov’t workers from experiencing what others are going through.

And there’s no sign that anything will change. The economy was built on sand. There is no foundation.

I will say that I’m glad for the lessening of the shock factor.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:06 PM

Is it lessening it? Most on this side were saying if we take the hit. It could all be over in 6 months. But trying to lessen it will prolong it for years.

If the government did nothing. We could be climbing up now instead of looking down the long path of misery ahead.

petunia on November 7, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Is it lessening it? Most on this side were saying if we take the hit. It could all be over in 6 months. But trying to lessen it will prolong it for years.

We’ll never know. But there was enough said by both Bush and Obama early on that I decided I believed them.

It was, indeed, just that bad.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:18 PM

I yearn for the good old days when the SRM would spin 5% unemployment and decificits in the billions as disastrous.

farright on November 7, 2009 at 1:13 PM

And each and every job lost or dollar borrowed was the fault of the President. But of course a perfect President like Obama could not have made this thing worse!

petunia on November 7, 2009 at 1:18 PM

“If we don’t act swiftly and boldly, we could see a much deeper economic downturn that could lead to double-digit unemployment,” he said.

Yes, throw the drowning economy some big, fat anchors like “free” heath care for all, big tax increases on the most productive Americans, and massive new taxes on energy. That’ll fix things right up!

Obozo is beyond reckless.

Cicero43 on November 7, 2009 at 1:19 PM

Just wait for Obama to unleash those 13th and 14th stimulus packages to halt the unemployment: These two packages provide fully paid college tuition to all children names Sasha and Malia Obama.

Keep in mind the bulk of Porkulus hasn’t been doled out yet…it’s intended to buy votes next year….and imagine how dead Obamacare would be right now if that big ol’ carrot wasn’t a part of the present Pelosi arm twisting.

Patrick S on November 7, 2009 at 1:13 PM

Obama’s own finance directors claim the stimulus has already had its peak effect on the economy, the rest is nothing but kickbacks to union thugs and companies who helped elect Obama.

dthorny on November 7, 2009 at 1:20 PM

All right, I’ve had it with these AP morons:

I’m 25 years old and I have a BFA in Illustration: I never took any economics class – not macro, not micro, not even personal finance. By the standards of condescending modern liberals, I am as far from economic expert as one can get.

And yet, remarkably, while the AP and other sources have been touting a “recovery” for months, I’ve been saying that I fully expect employment to hit 10% before 2010 and keep going after that…. this may be a simplistic understanding, but as far as I can see, there’s no incentive for businesses to hire, and the longer the economy worsens or remains in stasis, the fewer goods and merchandise are sold and so more jobs are lost in the production and sale of those items and services. Makes sense to me – made sense before the AP caught up, too.

If I could understand this way back in January, WTF is wrong with the AP and all their buddies? Did they really think that if they lied enough, their fantasies would come true? What a completely worthless excuse for a news outlet. It’s such a shame that there are so few trustworthy sources remaining. It makes me a cynic against my will.

Animator Girl on November 7, 2009 at 1:21 PM

It was, indeed, just that bad.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:18 PM

I bought in to tarp. After that. It just became ridiculous! And I am totally unconvinced that anything Bush or Obama did made anything better. They mettled and made things much worse.

Except, you know that $300 or whatever stimulus Bush gave away? I think that slowed it down enough so it didn’t hit until Obama. I would be mad about that if I was Obama.

But I might have tried to figure out how that helped. Because I think it did somehow. People spent it.

petunia on November 7, 2009 at 1:22 PM

It’s only going to get worse and worse unless ‘The One’ wakes the he11 up and gets rid of Rahmmy. Even a blind man can look at the policies and perversions coming out of the White House and confirm that Rahm is the one running the show. He’s also a moron who almost singlehandedly wrecked Illinois without even having a seat of power. How’d he do it? Mafia style. The only style Rahm knows. Get rid of Rahm and put an intelligent person in the President’s ear and things will get better. Until then… it’s all downhill.

Yes the underlying story here is that Barry is completely clueless and couldn’t wipe his own arse if not for direction from an underling or wife or teleprompter or professor or ballboy. Never in American history has such a small man with so little in capabilities held this high office. We’ll be dam lucky to survive it.

The only good that will come of this… before it’s over, if the country survives, you’ll not see another Democrat President in your lifetime.

Griz on November 7, 2009 at 1:22 PM

See why Rush wanted Obama to fail?

This is the smell of Obama success.

notropis on November 7, 2009 at 1:22 PM

Why don’t you give another “shout-out” to Dr. Joe Medicine Crow, you disconnected Manchurian candidate?

John the Libertarian on November 7, 2009 at 1:23 PM

The only good that will come of this… before it’s over, if the country survives, you’ll not see another Democrat President in your lifetime.

Griz on November 7, 2009 at 1:22 PM

At least there’s that.

But Repubs do the same things if they don’t fear the people.

petunia on November 7, 2009 at 1:23 PM

Whoops, that was supposed to be “unemployment,” not employment. 90% unemployment would be unthinkable….

Animator Girl on November 7, 2009 at 1:23 PM

There’s obviously no recovery. Tarp merely slowed down the misery. Stimulus merely spared gov’t workers from experiencing what others are going through.

And there’s no sign that anything will change. The economy was built on sand. There is no foundation.

I will say that I’m glad for the lessening of the shock factor.
AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:06 PM

Ann, even though the Stimulus slowed the job losses and gave temporary jobs for some, Obama’s economic plan along with all his other government expansion plans (healthcare, etc.) are increasing the drag on the economy in general. These policies are causing the misery to deepen, broaden and last longer. And what did we get in return? Was the new curbing downtown worth it? Were a few summer jobs worth it? I don’t think so.

In the late 1970′s, our economy seemed to be built on sand, the shock factor of bad economic news had gone. We were in malaise. All was lost and hopeless.

And then we booted Carter out, elected Reagan who insitutted conservative economic polciies, and it was morning again in America.

So don’t be depressed. Don’t be full of Obamalaise. We can wake up to a bright morning again.

Yes we can!

Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 1:24 PM

In a piece published last night,

Which means no one will even read it.

Del Dolemonte on November 7, 2009 at 1:24 PM

…dealing a psychological blow to Americans as they prepare holiday shopping lists.

uh huh. I took a stroll through my local mall yesterday at noon and there were tumbleweeds rolling along with me. It’s usually very crowded, especially on a Friday at noon.

Prices slashed – heavily discounted (at Macy’s no less) – racks jam packed with items. No shoppers.

I can’t remember when I’ve seen such inactivity at a retail outlet.

tru2tx on November 7, 2009 at 1:25 PM

90% unemployment would be unthinkable….

Animator Girl on November 7, 2009 at 1:23 PM

Not unthinkable in King Barry’s dreams.

farright on November 7, 2009 at 1:25 PM

The month-over-month increase is the largest since May, and four times as large as the last monthly difference.

Surely I’m not the only one who finds it suspicious that the “larger than expected” jump just happened to come 3 days after election day.

For the past two or three months, unemployment figures were expected to climb, but came in “lower than expected”. Only to now be corrected with a picture even worse than anyone thought likely three months ago.

Methinks the Labor Dept is playing political games.

jeanneb on November 7, 2009 at 1:25 PM

I guess the AP will loose its seal of approval soon!

Rndguy on November 7, 2009 at 1:26 PM

The Dems think things are grim for them now, just wait until their opponents starting airing their campaign ads with the jobless numbers superimposed with every wasteful pork barrel project approved in the porkulus plan and the 2009 budget. The Dems haven’t even started getting hit yet.

PackerBronco on November 7, 2009 at 1:27 PM

If I could understand this way back in January, WTF is wrong with the AP and all their buddies? Did they really think that if they lied enough, their fantasies would come true? What a completely worthless excuse for a news outlet. It’s such a shame that there are so few trustworthy sources remaining. It makes me a cynic against my will.

Animator Girl on November 7, 2009 at 1:21 PM

I know. I still keep expecting journalism to issue forth from these folks… Every time there is a slight bit of truth they pull back.

This country is crying out for more outlets like Fox News so we don’t have to trust one source. But no they continue to lie.

The way psycho killer Major Hasan is treated is typical of the quality of journalism. It is just sick.

petunia on November 7, 2009 at 1:27 PM

The only good that will come of this… before it’s over, if the country survives, you’ll not see another Democrat President in your lifetime.

Griz on November 7, 2009 at 1:22 PM
At least there’s that.

But Repubs do the same things if they don’t fear the people.

petunia on November 7, 2009 at 1:23 PM

Before this is all over with the Repubs may be gone as well. A revolution for individualism is the only force that can save this country from a death spiral. The same kind we had to start this country. Get ready, it’s coming whether you think so or not. People do crazy things when they’re watching their children suffer.

Griz on November 7, 2009 at 1:29 PM

*BUDUMP*
patta patta patta patta patta patta patta
*BUDUMP*
patta patta patta patta patta patta patta
*BUDUMP*
patta patta patta patta patta patta patta

Was that 0bama going under the bus?

noblejones on November 7, 2009 at 1:31 PM

Let me be clear. Stimulus has saved or created errrrrrck

JACK SHIT, you fraud!

marklmail on November 7, 2009 at 1:31 PM

Ann, even though the Stimulus slowed the job losses and gave temporary jobs for some, Obama’s economic plan along with all his other government expansion plans (healthcare, etc.) are increasing the drag on the economy in general.

Well, Lox…I can’t see where the engine is. I believe it fell out a long time ago.

It’s not just the loss of manufacturing. We withstood that, except for some sectors. But we kept going. You cannot outsource all the white-collar jobs, too, and have an economy left.

I don’t think it takes an economist to figure that one out.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:33 PM

The Dems think things are grim for them now, just wait until their opponents starting airing their campaign ads with the jobless numbers superimposed with every wasteful pork barrel project approved in the porkulus plan and the 2009 budget. The Dems haven’t even started getting hit yet.

PackerBronco on November 7, 2009 at 1:27 PM

Ammunition is a plenty, but will the spineless bastards pull the trigger? They sure failed to do so from ’01 to ’08 when there were plenty of ammo of the obstructionist variety.

Griz on November 7, 2009 at 1:33 PM

bought in to tarp. After that. It just became ridiculous! And I am totally unconvinced that anything Bush or Obama did made anything better.

Ditto for me. I couldn’t believe the stimulus bill. Or the GM bailout.

And, I may be a fiscal conservative, but I’m not a “balance budget” type.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:34 PM

Losing your job is more than a psychological blow.

And I plan on mostly homemade items for Christmas this year. I’ve already made a crocheted doll and clothes for my grandaughter. I’m making aliens and space ships for my grandsons… Usally I’m so busy with shopping I don’t have time.

Two Christmases ago we were without a paycheck… long story… but you don’t get unemployment when you own part of the business…

Not much for Christmas. We all sang in the Messiah. All the practicing and everything was so Christmasy. We didn’t miss presents all that much. It was a nice Christmas.

Then last year we spent alot again. Now this year I want to combine the two. Spend less, make more, and sing in the Messiah.

petunia on November 7, 2009 at 1:36 PM

As a small business owner, I have news for you Zero, I’m not in the mood to to spend any money right now nor am I inclined to make you look good in any way. I have decided to simply wait you out.

graywaiter on November 7, 2009 at 1:39 PM

And, I may be a fiscal conservative, but I’m not a “balance budget” type.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:34 PM

You’re a nitwit type

AsianGirlInTights on November 7, 2009 at 1:40 PM

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:33 PM

As long as we continue to expand the size of the government sector and the national debt, we are placing incredible constraints on the ingenuity and hard-working nature of the American people. We have to turn that around first. It will take time, and we may not know what parts of the private sector will take the lead until they do, but it can be done. Reagan did it. It can happen again.

Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 1:41 PM

As long as we continue to expand the size of the government sector and the national debt, we are placing incredible constraints on the ingenuity and hard-working nature of the American people. We have to turn that around first. It will take time, and we may not know what parts of the private sector will take the lead until they do, but it can be done. Reagan did it. It can happen again.

Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 1:41 PM

Well, we can only hope. The alternative won’t exactly get anyone anwhere, and I have yet to see any truly new ideas emerge.

Lots of hype on both sides.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:43 PM

I do sometimes regret not getting more involved in the “Back to the Earth” group of hippies. :)

They are probably doing great on their cherry farms. *haha

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:45 PM

Maybe when Obama’s approval rating equals the unemployment rate we will get real change. Hopefully sooner.

fourdeucer on November 7, 2009 at 1:45 PM

Barry Obama’s pastor has had his prayers answered. You wanted God to damn America. I think He’s found his implement of judgment in the White House.

Mojave Mark on November 7, 2009 at 1:45 PM

So don’t be depressed. Don’t be full of Obamalaise. We can wake up to a bright morning again.

Yes we can!

Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 1:24 PM

That brought some tears. Thanks for sharing… I sure miss him.

Key West Reader on November 7, 2009 at 1:46 PM

I am astonished that the AP is implicitly acknowledging the “recovery” call came to soon. Now, someone please tell the pump monkeys and clowns over at cnbc, who are deeply invested in the “recovery” illusion.

I’m really worried that unemployment is going to accelerate this winter. The other news yesterday, largely unreported, is that consumer credit has fallen off a cliff. In the long run, this is a good thing (imo). But for the short term, that means a big drop in consumer spending is likely. Our economy is 70% consumer spending. Do the math.

Now this year I want to combine the two. Spend less, make more, and sing in the Messiah.

petunia on November 7, 2009 at 1:36 PM

that’s the spirit, petunia!

james23 on November 7, 2009 at 1:47 PM

dealing a psychological blow to Americans as they prepare holiday shopping lists.

Oh no!! Instead of buying 10 pieces of junk for 10 people you don’t like, you’ll only do it for 5. Someone declare a national emergency.

If anything, this recession will maybe teach people that spending 110% of one’s income on things they don’t need is a bad idea.

angryed on November 7, 2009 at 1:47 PM

This may be a great time for a flat tax or a “Fair” Tax. This system is so gamed that no one knows the rules or is willing to play. A forced balanced budget, a individual State “Social Security” and Medicare insurance system that is only available to the elderly at the poverty line and the Federal Government returned to the limits of the Constitution seem to me the only solution. We have three layers of Government and we need to deeply cut the least responsive and most out of Control.

GunRunner on November 7, 2009 at 1:48 PM

consumer credit has fallen off a cliff

The banks cannot lend. Nobody has dealt with the toxic assets yet.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:49 PM

One good thing about letting the AP call it a “relapse” is that it makes it harder to say the double-digit inflation is Bush’s fault.

KS Rex on November 7, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Economists had not expected the 10 percent mark to come so quickly and immediately darkened their forecasts. Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Economy.com, and Joshua Shapiro, chief U.S. economist at MFR Inc., predicted the rate will peak at 11 percent by mid-2010. They earlier had projected 10.5 percent.

Or in layman’s terms…

Two guys who call themselves economists and pick numbers out of thin air, just picked two more numbers out of thin air recently. I if I read about one more economist surprised by high unemployment I will throw my laptop at the reporter.

angryed on November 7, 2009 at 1:51 PM

Not much for Christmas. We all sang in the Messiah. All the practicing and everything was so Christmasy. We didn’t miss presents all that much. It was a nice Christmas.

Then last year we spent alot again. Now this year I want to combine the two. Spend less, make more, and sing in the Messiah.

petunia on November 7, 2009 at 1:36 PM

About three years ago, we asked our family to stop buying us gifts and instead, make donations to homeless shelters and food banks. And we also stopped giving gifts and made donations in their names to the needy. It makes getting together simpler and we enjoy eachother’s company and comfort. In the end, all we really have is family.

So, screw YOU Barack Obama!!!! You can create chaos, but you ain’t going to win.

Key West Reader on November 7, 2009 at 1:51 PM

A former President and First Lady acting well….Presidential

Caper29 on November 7, 2009 at 1:14 PM

I miss that part of Pres. Bush. His handling of the economy in his second term, not so much.

Barry campaigned for two years that he had the remedies to what ails us. (Not that I fell for it.) And all he’s done is make us a whole lot sicker.

NebCon on November 7, 2009 at 1:52 PM

Is it lessening it? Most on this side were saying if we take the hit. It could all be over in 6 months. But trying to lessen it will prolong it for years.

The results of not learning from history.

Johan Klaus on November 7, 2009 at 1:52 PM

And, I may be a fiscal conservative, but I’m not a “balance budget” type.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:34 PM

And you’re also for ObamaCare which will cost $2T (at least) over the next 10 years. Which means that you are a moron.

angryed on November 7, 2009 at 1:53 PM

“Obamalaise”

inspired me.

(Wish I had Slublog’s talents!)

notropis on November 7, 2009 at 1:54 PM

Why would Obama and any of the Obamanites want a recovery that’s surely not the plan? I thought the whole idea of the cloward-piven strategy was being followed by these clowns to perfection ?

Break it,crush it,then rebuild it ! A Marxist Utopia and temple to the ONE ?

Sandybourne on November 7, 2009 at 1:54 PM

angryed on November 7, 2009 at 1:51 PM

Obama’s great depression.

Johan Klaus on November 7, 2009 at 1:55 PM

And, I may be a fiscal conservative, but I’m not a “balance budget” type.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:34 PM

Then wtf type are you? fiscally responsible types and socialism do not go together and you are proof.

CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 1:55 PM

And you’re also for ObamaCare which will cost $2T (at least) over the next 10 years. Which means that you are a moron.

angryed on November 7, 2009 at 1:53 PM

Not for either bill offered right now.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:57 PM

Well, we can only hope. The alternative won’t exactly get anyone anwhere, and I have yet to see any truly new ideas emerge.

Lots of hype on both sides.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:43 PM

We can do more than hope. We can get involved and take action.

Yes, there is lots of hype and emotion from both sides. However, there are also many smart people who are not jumping up and down, hysterically screaming, who are calmly working on these issues.

The path to economic recovery leads through November 2, 2010. We need a new majority in Congress that is fiscally conservative and favors private sector growth.

Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 2:02 PM

Update: The House just started 4 hours of debate on the floor before the bill is brought to a vote. Tune in to CSPAN for what is likely to be an intense day.

I anticipate it gets heated, particularly at the 3-hour mark.

Animator Girl on November 7, 2009 at 2:03 PM

Not for either bill offered right 33now.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 1:57 PM

If you are for a public plan, you aren’t fiscally conservative. This country cannot afford it…it is simply unsustainable, you nitwit! (thanks AsianGirl!)

ladyingray on November 7, 2009 at 2:04 PM

EPIC FAIL or planned.

Banks ARE NOT LENDING TO CONSUMERS NOR SMALL BUSINESSES!

Nothing will happen until you lower taxes on both, and/or start lending. There’s just no velocity on money. It’s that simple.

marklmail on November 7, 2009 at 2:05 PM

That brought some tears. Thanks for sharing… I sure miss him.

Key West Reader on November 7, 2009 at 1:46 PM

I miss Reagan as well. But we can each keep his spirit alive in what we say and do, and how we say and do it.

Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 2:05 PM

If you are for a public plan, you aren’t fiscally conservative. This country cannot afford it…it is simply unsustainable, you nitwit! (thanks AsianGirl!)

ladyingray on November 7, 2009 at 2:04 PM

No country has ever been able to afford it, as Ann would know if she had a clue.

DarkCurrent on November 7, 2009 at 2:10 PM

If you are for a public plan, you aren’t fiscally conservative

Well, my own idea of public plan certainly would be an asset to small business, so I completely dispute your assertion.

However, that’s not this thread’s topic.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 2:10 PM

Hey, I have some great ideas-

Let’s just print a shitload of money and give it to anyone who helps keep the Democrats in power.

And start a massive and blindingly expensive new government program, like socialized medicine.

And institute an economy-destroying monstrosity called cap and trade in order to prevent imaginary man-made global warming.

Then tax the shit out of the rich to pay for it all-rich, of course, being defined as income greater than $200K, which, thanks to step one above, will be worth about $50K in 2006 dollars.

That’s the ticket, eh?

justltl on November 7, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Well, my own idea of public plan certainly would be an asset to small business, so I completely dispute your assertion.
AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 2:10 PM

Another shell game

CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 2:16 PM

My ideas are on the appropriate thread, CW.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Well, my own idea of public plan certainly would be an asset to small business, so I completely dispute your assertion.
AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 2:10 PM

If you want to help small businesses, then remove the restrictions regarding purchasing insurance out of state. Also, let small businesses band together, either by location or type of business, in a quasi-group and purchase insurance for their employees that way.

No tax dollars needed.

ladyingray on November 7, 2009 at 2:19 PM

Elizabeth Warren, the chair of the Congressional Oversight Panel Friday, on Morning Joe said this truthful gem:
“Let’s face it,” Warren said, “This is sort of how we went about the rescue — we rescued at the top and we left the bottom to kind of fend for itself — and that’s showing up in the unemployment numbers.”

17.4% (the true figure) are unemployed and no one is doing anything about it on Capitol Hill. It’s a travesty!

Until the little guy is given some relief, things will only get worse. Roubini predicted this. Krugman, too.

Time to rein in the banks and Wall Street with appropriate legislation. And time to bailout the struggling middle-class.

One suggestion: A moratorium on foreclosures, which will help everyone until the system rights itself.

I know, I know, it’s not the Republican way. Well, tax cuts don’t help the unemployed ~ always the Republican solution. And,housing is effecting the total economy, and individuals failing financial portfolios.

Halli Casser-Jayne
Author of A YEAR IN MY PAJAMAS WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA, The Politics of Strange Bedfellows

http://www.thecjpoliticalreport.com

The CJ Political Report on November 7, 2009 at 2:22 PM

The Grimm Fairy Tail is being told on C-Span.

yoda on November 7, 2009 at 2:22 PM

ladyingray on November 7, 2009 at 2:19 PM

How about eliminating all taxes on small businesses?
That would give us a real recovery and tremendous long-term benefits.

Oh, and Ann is a nitwit.

DarkCurrent on November 7, 2009 at 2:23 PM

Unemployment at 11 percent would be a post-World War II record. Only once since then has joblessness hit double digits in the United States — from September 1982 to July 1983, topping out at 10.8 percent.

NEWSFLASH – Using the method of counting the unemployed in use after WWII we now have 17.5% unemployment. See the BLS.gov website and search for the U-6 number.

The worsening economy — which is what we have — is heavily impacting the engine of new-job growth, small businesses.

The number of unemployed is directly affecting the engine of new job growth. Sales were way down in Sept and Oct because, the unemployed do not have money to spend.

I keep saying it.

dogsoldier on November 7, 2009 at 2:23 PM

If you want to help small businesses, then remove the restrictions regarding purchasing insurance out of state. Also, let small businesses band together, either by location or type of business, in a quasi-group and purchase insurance for their employees that way.

No tax dollars needed.

ladyingray on November 7, 2009 at 2:19 PM

I agree. The GOP plan presented didn’t go far enough. It was a start.

However, there still has to be oversight. That means Federal oversight. So you can’t escape the intrusion of the Feds with even that plan.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Another shell game

CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 2:16 PM

My ideas are on the appropriate thread, CW.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Sorry You misunderstood and I many not have been clear. My point is that you can try to set up a plan to help small business yet if the government is involved it will not be fiscally sound. You are just shifting costs around hence a shell game.

CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Oh goody.

Factor in Nancy Pelosi’s et. al. Democrat’s super-duper healthcare plan that includes fines of up to $250,000 and up to 5-years in prison penalties for employers violating the terms of the Government-forced-down-our-throat bill, and employers who have to contribute sizable chunks of their bottom line to the cost of the bill will just be giddy with hiring new employees.

Our current government has just got to -Got To- be conspiring to destroy this country. There is no other plausible explanation for their actions.

By the way, will the government option pay for my Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie too?

.

SilverStar830 on November 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM

However, that’s not this thread’s topic.

AnninCA on November 7, 2009 at 2:10 PM

Oh, I don’t know. Perhaps another $3 trillion in national debt and a massive expansion of government at the expense of the private sector might just put some pressure on our economy. Seems more than a little possible, doesn’t it? So, what’s off topic about that?

Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 2:25 PM

Well, tax cuts don’t help the unemployed ~ always the Republican solution.

The CJ Political Report on November 7, 2009 at 2:22 PM

Of course tax cuts help the unemployed. They create an environment in which more jobs are created.

Don’t tell me you’re another nitwit. One’s more than enough.

DarkCurrent on November 7, 2009 at 2:26 PM

I love your reasoned posts, loxodonta. They are calming and inspiring. You repeatedly demonstrate what real wit is. BTW I cam going to “steal” your term Obamalaise.

onlineanalyst on November 7, 2009 at 2:27 PM

ED AND ALLAH, where’s the House Debate Open Thread? I don’t want to fill up the wrong threads but I think a lot of us would like to discuss what’s going on.

Animator Girl on November 7, 2009 at 2:28 PM

Oh, and Ann is a nitwit.

DarkCurrent on November 7, 2009 at 2:23 PM

I don’t mean to be rude, ma’am, but Ann is not a nitwit. She is very clever. And you really have to be on your toes and be very aware of what you and she are doing in order to respond to her. You know, like me.

Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 2:31 PM

I love your reasoned posts, loxodonta. They are calming and inspiring. You repeatedly demonstrate what real wit is. BTW I cam going to “steal” your term Obamalaise.

onlineanalyst on November 7, 2009 at 2:27 PM

+1

CWforFreedom on November 7, 2009 at 2:33 PM

ladyingray on November 7, 2009 at 2:19 PM

And that goes for you, too, sir.

Loxodonta on November 7, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Dark Current: Well, I can see how much tax cuts have helped the unemployed. Following the Bush Tax cuts we now have the highest unemployment since 1983. Tell me, who’s the nitwit?

The CJ Political Report on November 7, 2009 at 2:34 PM

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