Pelosi wants a Saturday vote for her ObamaCare bill
posted at 10:12 am on November 5, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
How long would it take you to read a 1990-page book? If it was an extended version of Stephen King’s The Stand, perhaps most of us could get it done in a couple of weeks, if we turned off the TV and ignored our families. It would be about the same as reading most of the last three Harry Potter novels in one stretch, to give a sense of proportion.
Now imagine that the 1990 pages consists of legalese, tax hikes, government mandates on states and health-care insurers and providers. Do you think you could get that read with any level of comprehension necessary to cast an educated vote in just eight days?
House Democratic leaders are pushing for a Saturday vote on their sweeping health-care bill, but they are struggling to win over shaky rank-and-file members who could hold up its passage.
Democrats tacked new provisions onto the legislation late Tuesday, clearing one of the final hurdles for bringing the bill to the floor. One of the additions would raise $24 billion for the bill by eliminating a biofuels tax break for pulp and paper companies. Another would place tighter restrictions on insurance companies to prevent them from increasing consumers’ premiums without cause.
But the changes didn’t resolve sharp differences among Democrats over how the bill handles funding for abortion, with some saying they won’t support the legislation until it addresses their concerns. Republican victories in two gubernatorial elections Tuesday night are also making some wavering members uneasy about voting for a $1.055 trillion bill.
As of Wednesday, House leaders didn’t appear to have secured the 218 votes they need to pass the bill. They were moving to quickly swear in two Democrats elected Tuesday, which would give the party 258 seats in the House and allow leaders to lose as many as 40 Democratic votes without losing their majority. No Republicans are expected to vote for the bill.
The big question for Pelosi will be the Blue Dog Democrats. Perhaps she thinks that pushing through a quick vote on her just-released version of ObamaCare will distract the moderates from learning the lesson of the elections this week. However, the rush is more likely to create greater skepticism, especially since Pelosi keeps changing the bill. How many of them want to suddenly back big spending and massive government control after watching Barack Obama lose New Jersey by five points — a state he won just a year ago by 15?
Pelosi, of course, sees the momentum slipping away — and it has because Democrats have been forced to slow down. Pelosi wanted to jam this down the House’s throat in July, but only a national outcry stopped the runaway statist train long enough for people to understand the stakes. She’s trying it again, but now Blue Dogs understand the stakes a little better.
We need another national outcry. We’ll be doing a Melt the Phones segment today on TEMS at 3 pm ET, where viewers call their Congressional offices on the air to tell their Representatives to oppose ObamaCare. Be sure to bring your Representative’s office number to the show, and we’ll make sure your voices are heard.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 Next »
First, do not have employers be the “provider” of health care, have individuals by the health care plan that suits their needs and budget. Two, provide protection to the consumer that if they get disease X, cancer Y, etc. while covered, that insurance company cannot dump the person or price them out of coverage.
WashJeff on November 5, 2009 at 10:45 AM
Ed, I read the extended version of the Stand in one weekend. But then again, not as many people died in the Stand as will die because of this bill.
The_Lid on November 5, 2009 at 10:45 AM
Good pick for Saturday. That’s when the other cartoons are on.
Jeff from WI on November 5, 2009 at 10:45 AM
These people, and I use that term with some reservations, took an oath to uphold the Constitution and they refuse to do so. This should not even be considered if it can’t pass the muster of constitutionality.
thomasaur on November 5, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Who’s up for dissolving of Congress, with special elections to be held immediately, and incumbents disallowed from running?
Hear, hear!
Paging General Petraeus!
honsy on November 5, 2009 at 10:46 AM
And I don’t want government retards deciding what is and what isn’t acceptable coverage and how much it’ll cost.
But, remember, the constitution was founded under the idea that government should force people to do stuff, right Jimbo?
lorien1973 on November 5, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Have you considered it’s not the job of government to manage healthcare? Or that if it tries to it will most likely make a worse mess of it?
Just because I don’t support a government solution doesn’t mean that I don’t support a solution.
gwelf on November 5, 2009 at 10:46 AM
I took the Evelyn Wood sped redding course, and my redding comp-re-hension improved wonder…….fully.
Jerome Horwitz on November 5, 2009 at 10:47 AM
The GOP bill did disappoint me because it doesn’t address purging or pre-existing.
I think that is a tactical mistake.
AnninCA on November 5, 2009 at 10:47 AM
See my next post for my thoughts on how that will play out.
AnninCA on November 5, 2009 at 10:48 AM
And I don’t want to be forced to pay for your insurance.
fogw on November 5, 2009 at 10:48 AM
Not positive, but I think Owens has promised to support it.
This thing is going to pass, I think. I don’t know if it’ll make it through the Senate but when Pelosi actually brings a bill to a vote, things tend to pass (see Porkulus).
I hope to heaven I’m wrong.
Missy on November 5, 2009 at 10:48 AM
So the federal government has the authority to do anything it wants to do as long as it thinks it’s good for us?
gwelf on November 5, 2009 at 10:48 AM
Is this a feasible option, because frankly, I don’t think we can wait until next Nov. and then 2012 with Obama in the WH.
piglet on November 5, 2009 at 10:49 AM
federal government control of insurance companies. All these generalities about big bad government muddy the waters a bit.
ernesto on November 5, 2009 at 10:49 AM
It beats the hell out of Pelosicare in a head to head matchup.
uknowmorethanme on November 5, 2009 at 10:49 AM
We do that already. It’s the entire concept behind insurance. We pool together. I pay for your prostate exam, and you pay for my mammogram. *haha
AnninCA on November 5, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Hey, you got a problem with Saturday morning cartoons? I’m 34, a conservative Republican, and I still love those things. :-P Watch them with my girls over morning breakfast cereal all the time. lol
Highlar on November 5, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Your petty freedoms are unimportant – the government has a mandate to take care of everyone.
gwelf on November 5, 2009 at 10:50 AM
The GOP bill lowers premiums to make insurance more affordable. It doesn’t make it illegal not to buy it, like Pelosi-biggovt-care does. The GOP bill allows people to still be free to make their own decisions and lowers premiums to make it more affordable. I prefer the FREEDOM thank you. You want your nanny state Jimbo, go to one that’s already existing over in Europe.
JAM on November 5, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Pelosi’s Bill is not insurance in the first place.
Insurance is a risk pool–you pay money into the pool with the insurer indemnifying you based on the policy should you contract a covered condition. The policy looks to the future. For example, a 100 year old might be able to purchase a million dollar life insurance policy, but it will cost him very close to a million dollars.
Pre-existing conditions work exactly the same way. Once you find out that you have cancer, the insurance company can’t insure you against having cancer–thats illogical.
What Pelosi wants to do is force the company/goverment to pay for your treatment anyway.
Thats not insurance. Thats welfare.
Revenant on November 5, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Sorry for the shorthand. Point still remains.
rbj on November 5, 2009 at 10:50 AM
There is a new product coming out in the Insurance Industry called Mid-Med. It works like a Major Medical policy, except it has a smaller per year and lifetime limit, like $50,000 a year or $150,000 per policy. It gives lower paid hourly employees coverage with a smaller montly premium and yet gives them co-pays and an insurance card. If government would allow all 1,300 insurance companies to compete in all 50, err, 57 states, that would help a lot. The Government has no Constitutional authority to tell Americans they have to own insurance.
kingsjester on November 5, 2009 at 10:50 AM
I’m curious to hear your thoughts. Will you be posting here?
piglet on November 5, 2009 at 10:50 AM
The key word here is forced to buy insurance.
gwelf on November 5, 2009 at 10:51 AM
WHAT CAN I DO IF BOTH MY HOUSE & SENATE REPS ARE GOING TO VOTE NO.
I CAN’T TRAVEL TO DC TODAY.
WHO ELSE CAN I CALL?
poppieseeds on November 5, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Everyone is covered now (which is an inconvenient truth) if they get hurt or sick, Hospitals have to treat you regardless. So your argument about people not being “covered” is crap.
–No, everyone is not covered, unless you want to pay standard rates to hospitals. Right now, if you go into a hospital without insurance, you could easily be hit with a $50,000+ bill if something serious was involved. You’d have to declare bankruptcy.
CBO Bill:
House Republicans’ healthcare alternative would reduce the federal deficit by almost $70 billion over the next 10 years — but the proposal would only offer insurance to an additional 3 million Americans, according to a cost analysis of the bill. [And remember that the Dem bill reduces the deficit by $81 billion over that period, according to the CBO.]
The numbers released Wednesday night spell mixed news for Republicans, who touted their amendment — expected to cost about $61 billion over 10 years– as more effective than the trillion-dollar bill House Democrats introduced last week.
While the GOP’s effort is noticeably cheaper, it pales in comparison to the 36 million uninsured Americans that the Congressional Budget Office previously predicted Democrats’ reform could cover.
Some highlights from the CBO analysis:
– The amendment’s tort reform provisions would reduce federal spending on mandatory programs by about $41 billion over 10 years.
– The GOP’s bill could also reduce average premium costs over 10 years, by varying amounts depending on the size of the insurance pool. However, the CBO offers one crucial caveat: Not every American in each insurance category would see a premium decrease. Rather, analysts predict, more cost burden would fall on sicker Americans, or the costs could be hared disparately among states, which means some beneficiaries could see premium increases (while others do not).
– Finally, the amendment could reduce the deficit by about $18 billion after 2019, according to the CBO score. Still, the office stresses — much as it did when it scored the House bill — that projections beyond 2019 are too difficult to state with any degree of certitude.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Not so fast. Right now I have a choice whether I want to join the ponzi scheme or not. That goes away with Obamacare.
fogw on November 5, 2009 at 10:52 AM
According to some, alas, yes. :)
AnninCA on November 5, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Hey Jimbo,
It’s not about you and your needs and your fears and your bankruptcy and your, your, your…..
It’s about the entire freakin nation surviving. It’s about the freedom this country represents!
It’s about 233 years of people who went broke, lost their farms and businesses to go to war or deal with disease and loss of one kind or another in order to preserve something for their children!
You are typical of the myopic sickness that has so diseased this country.
katy on November 5, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Another version of Down is Up and we’ve always been at war with Eastasia…
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9003880
“New Jobless Claims Drop to 512K, Lowest Since Jan.”
Uh, forgetting to mention that it puts the jobless rate at 9.9% AND trying to mask the fact that we LOST ANOTHER half-a-million jobs.
UnderstandingisPower on November 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM
The GOP bill didn’t address pre-existing conditions because it says flat out that it is prohibitive to controlling costs. It’s common sense. I can’t buy homeowners insurance after my house burns down. I’m screwed if I made that gamble. Same for health insurance. If you don’t want to pony up the premiums until you actually get sick or hurt, then you are screwed with a huge bill for making that gamble.
uknowmorethanme on November 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM
I don’t want to have to effectively declare bankruptcy to get affordable insurance.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 10:44 AM
And I don’t want to be forced to pay for your insurance.
fogw on November 5, 2009 at 10:48 AM
–Then one of us will win and one of us will lose. That’s politics.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM
Ultimately, this bill will pass in the House, and most likely it could happen this Saturday. But, make no mistake, we will all pay for it dearly:
I’ve posted more on this Times editorial in The Greenroom. This is your elite liberal leadership that plans to destroy this nation’s economy—-one job (program/policy) at a time.
Rovin on November 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM
*LOL
*Ha Ha
*Hee Hee
thomasaur on November 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM
This I can say with certainty: my freshman Congressidjit (Perriello, Democrat, 5th CD, Va) won his seat last Nov. by only 740 votes. So far he has voted for cap ‘n tax & the GIVE act (& probably some more sh*t that i can’t keep up with).
My district went for the Republican gubernatorial candidate, McDonnell, 61%-39%. If the dumbass Congressidjit votes for this bill, he might as well come home then.
kelley in virginia on November 5, 2009 at 10:54 AM
You really don’t have to join, unless you want a benefit out of the pool.
That’s the key behind the mandate idea. Nobody is going to send out HC police to check your HC card.
BUT if you take the risk and then go to apply…..zap. Here’s the penalty phase.
My issue is……try collecting that one. Hello? The fact is that you can’t squeeze blood from a turnip!
AnninCA on November 5, 2009 at 10:54 AM
The GOP bill didn’t address pre-existing conditions because it says flat out that it is prohibitive to controlling costs. It’s common sense. I can’t buy homeowners insurance after my house burns down. I’m screwed if I made that gamble. Same for health insurance. If you don’t want to pony up the premiums until you actually get sick or hurt, then you are screwed with a huge bill for making that gamble.
uknowmorethanme on November 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM
–Unfortunately, you’re intentionally misrepresenting the situation. In many cases, people have insurance through their employers and then lose that coverage. It’s not as if they didn’t buy insurance beforehand.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 10:54 AM
So it’s your basic supposition that the government should turn the tide on commodities and services having a cost associated with them?
gwelf on November 5, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Pre-existing conditions work exactly the same way. Once you find out that you have cancer, the insurance company can’t insure you against having cancer–thats illogical.
Revenant on November 5, 2009 at 10:50 AM
You know, that makes sense. The logic behind government programs is that THERE ISN’T ANY. Logic is what is missing in every government program calculation and that is what is so frustrating to conservatives, in my opinion.
We homeschool and I keep close tabs on what our school district is teaching. Logic does not exist as a field of study, which is a shame, as it can be fun and it is certainly helpful when dealing with Algebra and policy.
Seems like our current load of politicians should all be forced to take a class in logic.
piglet on November 5, 2009 at 10:56 AM
So you’re flying along in deep space, with your crew dependent on a single robot doctor that works but has some buggy code. 80% of the crew likes the robodoc, despite its occasional quirks and crashes.
Your computer engineer (Pelosi) proposes completely erasing the robodoc’s programming, and replacing it with 1990 pages of untested spaghetti code, claiming the new code will make the robodoc better, more efficient, and crash-proof.
Do you:
A. Erase and replace robodoc’s programming with Pelosi’s spaghetti code.
B. Keep the current robodoc code.
C. Blow Pelosi out the airlock.
ZenDraken on November 5, 2009 at 10:56 AM
They are sending the IRS instead.
uknowmorethanme on November 5, 2009 at 10:56 AM
Hey Jimbo,
It’s not about you and your needs and your fears and your bankruptcy and your, your, your…..
It’s about the entire freakin nation surviving. It’s about the freedom this country represents!
It’s about 233 years of people who went broke, lost their farms and businesses to go to war or deal with disease and loss of one kind or another in order to preserve something for their children!
You are typical of the myopic sickness that has so diseased this country.
katy on November 5, 2009 at 10:52 AM
–Then Katy, have the b*lls to start a civil war. Otherwise, you’re just a big talker in my book (“Big Hat, No Cattle” in Texas terms). Put up or shut up.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 10:56 AM
I’m hoping we responsible hardworking stiffs will be the winners and the leeches will be the losers.
You and Nancy prefer the opposite outcome.
fogw on November 5, 2009 at 10:56 AM
So is Nancy Pelosi in actuality Randall Flagg?
I could believe that.
MadisonConservative on November 5, 2009 at 10:56 AM
I’m curious to hear your thoughts. Will you be posting here?
piglet on November 5, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Is Elvis dead? Is Pelosi’s belly button currently resting on top of her head from all the face lifts?
Jimbo03 – You are a Corporate Lawyer. Just how expensive do you think a insurance policy will be for you, that it would drive you to declare bankruptcy?
kingsjester on November 5, 2009 at 10:57 AM
That’s the stupidest comeback I’ve ever read on HA….
Try again…
katy on November 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM
Then the bill fails to really address people’s concerns. Let me be frank. The HC industry is not one whit different than banking or auto. They have overpaid bad executives who have implemented horrible practices. People no longer trust their insurance to even pay off. It’s ridiculous to pay premiums, scared to submit a claim, because you’re suspicious that your carrier will find some reason to cut you off in the middle of treatment.
That is unfair business practices, and the GOP should address it.
I do like the structure of how they are reducing costs. The biggest bonus went to small groups, which is small business.
It was a good start, but the bill really didn’t go far enough.
I think it’s….what do you guys call them….a RINO bill.
It’s still way, way too favorable to big business and not really what is going to hit people as sensible.
AnninCA on November 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM
I’m a hardworking stiff, too, fogw. We just disagree on this point.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM
Roll the treatment of their pre-existing conditions into Medicare and be done with it.
You progs are so incredibly naïve. ObamaCare is not about helping anyone. It’s about controlling the people, and grabbing money to fund their Ponzi govt (for a little while longer).
Rae on November 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM
BS.
Obamacare will fine those who don’t sign up.
fogw on November 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM
When statists win, we lose freedom.
When conservative principles win, you still have the opportunity to implement your vision at the state level.
This is why politicis seems so devisive and heated these days. One side has NO were to go to live in this country that fits their principles and lifestyle when the statists win.
WashJeff on November 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM
I so look forward to the day when Hotair no longer has any reason to post that woman’s picture. She truly nauseates me.
scalleywag on November 5, 2009 at 10:59 AM
WashJeff on November 5, 2009 at 10:45 AM
Exactly! When you lose your job, from being seriously ill, you lose your health insurance. You can continue on COBRA, for 18 months, but who can afford that! Take it away from employers, as a benifit, and make it more affordable to buy individually…..by competion across state lines, etc.
gina4 on November 5, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Actually, I believe they plan to check the HC card through the IRS, so the penalty will be annual and be paid with your tax bill. The reasoning is that the IRS is already set up to audit and process, so adding another layer is small potatoes.
piglet on November 5, 2009 at 11:00 AM
You’re a hardworking stiff who wants a handout. Buzz off pal.
fogw on November 5, 2009 at 11:00 AM
I could be wrong, but I think that’s the way it will play out. That niftily goes around constitutional issues.
AnninCA on November 5, 2009 at 11:00 AM
But that’s exactly how it works RIGHT NOW. Take a gamble and decide not to buy insurance, get sick, get treated, owe tons of money. Why do we have to spend a trillion dollars to get the same freaking result AND still have to spend the money to treat the person who didn’t buy insurance?
Missy on November 5, 2009 at 11:00 AM
AnninCA on November 5, 2009 at 10:54 AM
By 2013(?), private insurance will be illegal
gina4 on November 5, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Insurance 101. insurance is based on the Law of Large Numbers
The idea is the more people you have in a group, the less expensive it is for everyone. For an individual, it can be very expensive. The more people you have, the lower the rates for everyone.
The reason for the mandate is so that the insurance companies can drop the ‘pre-existing condition’ clause. Paying for a known event (pre-existing condition) is not insurance. If you wreck your car and then get insurance to pay for it, that’s not insurance.
The rates to the hospitals and doctors are negotiated based on the amount of care that they give to people who don’t pay. But that doesn’t mean that getting coverage to everyone means that your premiums will go down. . . it doesn’t address the COST. It addresses INSURANCE.
I’m rambling because I want to teach but don’t know exactly how to put it so that people will understand. It’s not rocket science, but it is math.
Basically what I’m saying is that the COST of health care is not what you pay for your insurance premium. The COST of health care is what the insurance companies and government programs pay for the services.
If you reform insurance, you won’t do anything to the cost of health care. Medicare won’t be different unless they go through with cutting 500B from it – which would lose any politician any election.
ThackerAgency on November 5, 2009 at 11:02 AM
That’s a huge programming project. There’s not much way to check it. They would have to tap into every single HC carrier’s database.
No way.
AnninCA on November 5, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Are you kidding???? You blow Pelosi out the airlock and radio Bill Gates…. geesh.
piglet on November 5, 2009 at 11:02 AM
That is honestly all they need to do!!!
deidre on November 5, 2009 at 11:02 AM
They can go ahead and pass it…it will be repealed before it even comes to fruition, tax revenue raised etc. If it isn’t repealed by then, it will be after the debacle comes to pass as it did when a Republican took over the reigns in Hawaii. It’s not gonna stand. They’re rushing this so fast, the holes will almost start appearing immediately.
RepubChica on November 5, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Already wrote my congressman = NO.
Look at the bright side. After all the talk by the House Leader regarding getting a full week’s work in via a busy House schedule, she’s actually asking them to work on a Saturday!
Robert17 on November 5, 2009 at 11:04 AM
He shoots, he scores!
nukemhill on November 5, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Gina, there is no way in heck the corporatists are ever going to outlaw private insurance.
No way.
My argument remains. Pelosi is constipated in her speech because she expresses pro-people ideas while really backing the big business interests. Ditto for Obama. Ditto for some Republicans.
There is NO way that private insurance is not going to be available.
That’s simply illogical. This bill actually frosts me because it mandates that the costs of this be placed on the backs of the middle-class. It is nothing but a big flipping entitlement tax bill, hidden in fees.
AnninCA on November 5, 2009 at 11:05 AM
Why do you think they want to get everyone’s health insurance info computerized? To save money, ha ha ha. No, to facilitate the HC card check.
piglet on November 5, 2009 at 11:06 AM
The whole scary point of this Bill is they aren’t interested in “health care”. They’re interested in control. They don’t debate the issues because this, Health care, isn’t the issue! The want to be the ruling class and we are all beneath them. Disgusting!!!!
gina4 on November 5, 2009 at 11:07 AM
2013, insurance will be illegal to purchase. It’s in the bill.
katy on November 5, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Correct. At its most basic level, the Democrat’s Healthcare bills all levy taxes in order to provide welfare (not insurance).
Revenant on November 5, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Private insurance a few years into Obamacare will consist of paying your physician with a wad full of hundred dollar bills.
fogw on November 5, 2009 at 11:08 AM
Nah*….that’s too paranoid.
Kaiser already has everything computerized. It saves huge bucks. I watched my mom being given 3 VERY expensive tests because the doctors “didn’t have the records.” Let me tell you, I couldn’t repeat often enough, she’s already had this test. They did it anyway and billed Medicare and her supplemental insurance.
It’s a flipping scam, in some cases.
AnninCA on November 5, 2009 at 11:08 AM
I love how Dennis Miller calls her a lizard and a dunderhead. Right on the money.
This chick is downright scary!!!
SmallGovtGuy on November 5, 2009 at 11:09 AM
<
I know, the Government, after they take over the industry, will do it for them.
gina4 on November 5, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Just to remind you guys, I’m not totally liberal on even this (heart) topic.
I agree with Joe the Plumber. The House bill is a redistribution bill, really.
AnninCA on November 5, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Last year, at this time, people were saying the Republicans wouldn’t be in the majority again for at least a decade! Well, it looks like the decade may be over next year. If the Democrats pass this, and the Republicans vow to repeal it and put in a better, cheaper option, the Democrats will be history. The beauty of this is they will be in the minority for a long, long time. The way they’re behaving now, more like a mob than a legislature, will not be forgotten anytime soon.
Even the Senate is getting into the game, passing a bill out of committee without a Republican in the room? I believe that’s unheard of but I could be wrong. Either way, it could be stunts like this, that show a complete disdain for the democratic process, that gets, even entrenched senators like Schumer, out of there.
bflat879 on November 5, 2009 at 11:10 AM
Exactly, IF the Statist Democrats actually cared about healthcare, actually cared about people, they would do something to actually improve the system instead of creating a Statist monstrosity that will cost more for Less service and less freedom.
Juno77 on November 5, 2009 at 11:11 AM
Correct. This will avoid having to apply a fine to anyone who does not have insurance, except for those who qualify for medicaid or medicare. It’s the incentive to keep yourself or your family insured that would avoid unnecessary costs. The Democrat’s bill is an absurdity and a joke (if it weren’t so imminent.)
Nalea on November 5, 2009 at 11:11 AM
Gotta go! I have hats to sell. My new supplemental income!
gina4 on November 5, 2009 at 11:11 AM
Wow. Scared little RINOs taking hold of the comments thread. No matter how you slice it, mandating health insurance and taxing or fining Americans who don’t want it is UNconstitutional. And for someone to say I can ignore the MANDATE and opt to not buy in to it and then pay a penalty at a later date if I change my mind, I’ll be sending you my increased Federal Tax Bill at the end of the year. You can pony up the money you say I WON’T be FORCED to pay since you like being FORCED to pay OTHERS bills anyway.
Sultry Beauty on November 5, 2009 at 11:16 AM
Exactly. What do they think–that the American people are going to wilt away and dissappear? They are creating the political atmosphere for a revolutionary backlash. This is what needs to happen and certainly will. For every action an equal and opposite reaction.
RepubChica on November 5, 2009 at 11:16 AM
The GOP bill didn’t address pre-existing conditions because it says flat out that it is prohibitive to controlling costs. It’s common sense. I can’t buy homeowners insurance after my house burns down. I’m screwed if I made that gamble. Same for health insurance. If you don’t want to pony up the premiums until you actually get sick or hurt, then you are screwed with a huge bill for making that gamble.
uknowmorethanme on November 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM
Correct. This will avoid having to apply a fine to anyone who does not have insurance, except for those who qualify for medicaid or medicare. It’s the incentive to keep yourself or your family insured that would avoid unnecessary costs. The Democrat’s bill is an absurdity and a joke (if it weren’t so imminent.)
Nalea on November 5, 2009 at 11:11 AM
–But you can’t keep yourself insured if you lose your job and have insurance from your employer. Or if you voluntarily leave your job.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 11:19 AM
I just wanted an excuse to write “Blow Pelosi out the airlock”.
ZenDraken on November 5, 2009 at 11:21 AM
That’s not even on topic to what he was talking about, and you know it. Two different issues completely.
You’re a real tough guy, huh?
MarkABinVA on November 5, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Jimbo03 – You are a Corporate Lawyer. Just how expensive do you think a insurance policy will be for you, that it would drive you to declare bankruptcy?
kingsjester on November 5, 2009 at 10:57 AM
–It would cost me about $30,000 a year for family health care coverage in the Texas high risk pool.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 11:21 AM
I do not think I’ve ever had the pleasure of reading such naivete. I guess that’s how libs survive.
Of course there will be no private insurance. It is spelled out.
In the end the goal is that the govt will control over 50% of the economy.
OT, is CA really taking an extra 10% ouut of paychecks?
ORconservative on November 5, 2009 at 11:21 AM
–Unfortunately, you’re intentionally misrepresenting the situation. In many cases, people have insurance through their employers and then lose that coverage. It’s not as if they didn’t buy insurance beforehand.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 10:54 AM
That’s not even on topic to what he was talking about, and you know it. Two different issues completely.
–Then Katy, have the b*lls to start a civil war. Otherwise, you’re just a big talker in my book (”Big Hat, No Cattle” in Texas terms). Put up or shut up.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 10:56 AM
You’re a real tough guy, huh?
MarkABinVA on November 5, 2009 at 11:21 AM
–Mark, unfortunately you are just wrong. My second comment was right on point. You can have employer insurance and then get a health condition. If you leave your employer, you would have a pre-existing condition and would generally be unable to purchase individual health insurance in the open market after COBRA ends.
–As to the second point, maybe I should have told Katy to get some ovaries.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 11:24 AM
Ann, Mr. Immelt, the CEO of GE has a solution, don’t you know?
http://www.healthymagination.com
MarkABinVA on November 5, 2009 at 11:24 AM
Most of the “uninsured” choose not to buy insurance. Young, healthy people who are invincible. Why mandate insurance for them? And if you are afraid of bankruptcy, buy a catastrophic policy. There is no need for one size fits all.
Bruce NV on November 5, 2009 at 11:25 AM
Hey grand savant, mind highlightng the text of others in your posts and clicking on the “quote” box if it’s not too complicated? Will make your posts read better to your enthralled readers.
RepubChica on November 5, 2009 at 11:26 AM
I’m a hardworking stiff, too, fogw. We just disagree on this point.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM
You’re a hardworking stiff who wants a handout. Buzz off pal.
fogw on November 5, 2009 at 11:00 AM
-How am I looking for a handout? I’m goint to pay for the insurance. (P.S. Will be going over to the other thread on this bill).
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 11:26 AM
For the first time, I am seeing the economic crisis really hitting home for my customers and myself. Working more, making less with less chance of finding a supplemental part time job to make ends meet. The very idea that the Democratic party cares about the average income, working taxpayer is a joke. This is a team of of pie in the sky, aged hippies, who want to reinvent the USA to meet their personal standards. Meanwhile they are wealthy and pensioned beyond anything we can even imagine and are not in the least effected in what they strap this nation to.
It is interesting that the first women to hold the position Pelosi has attained turns out to be such a stereo typical, sneaky biotch. If we didn’t already have enough issues with the bad policies of this Democratic regime, we have a woman with no sense of honor, duty or responsibility in power.
Hening on November 5, 2009 at 11:27 AM
–Mark, unfortunately you are just wrong. My second comment was right on point. You can have employer insurance and then get a health condition. If you leave your employer, you would have a pre-existing condition and would generally be unable to purchase individual health insurance in the open market after COBRA ends.
(Test)
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 11:27 AM
Thanks, RepChica.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 11:27 AM
My initial analysis of you seems to be correct. Thanks for the confirmation.
Also, I’m not wrong. Yes, I understand the point you are making about pre-existing conditions but that was not the point of the post you were replying to.
MarkABinVA on November 5, 2009 at 11:30 AM
–The Commerce Clause gave them this authority, along with an act of Congress.
Jimbo3 on November 5, 2009 at 10:41 AM
So the federal government has the authority to do anything it wants to do as long as it thinks it’s good for us?
gwelf on November 5, 2009 at 10:48 AM
Under the perverted reading of the commerce clause, pretty much yes. If something can by the most tenuous reasoning can be construed through even the most extrapolated connection (see 6 degrees of seperation) effect any aspect of doing business, then the clause can be used to justify most anything.
With the “Commerce Clause” and the “General Welfare” stipulations as now read, and reinforced by acceptance of “Stare Decisis”, you can pretty much consider the rest of the constitution as a moot point. As the courts have repeatedly demonstrated since some obscure farmer wanted to grow some wheat, for personal use mind you, above the Fed’s allotted allowance.
Sad, but true.
Archimedes on November 5, 2009 at 11:32 AM
I LIKE my health insurance. It costs me about $80 a month through my employer. It’s Blue Cross Blue Shield. I get this as a benefit, in lieu of higher wages. There’s not a damn thing wrong with it. I’ve never been turned down for anything and the worst thing that’s ever happened is that overzealous doctors have ordered tests I didn’t think were warranted, but they were still covered. Government run health insurance is going to be better than this? Riiiiiggggghhhhht.
scalleywag on November 5, 2009 at 11:34 AM
Thacker is right!
If you have car insurance and lose it, then get in a wreck, you cannot drive up to your Insurance agent and buy collision insurance on the damage you just incurred (pre-existing condition).
Insurance only spreads the risk that is why the Dims plan wants to force all citizens to buy it, so the young and healthy, and those who choose to pay for minor bills and only insure for large catestrophic losses have to pay for the older Americans who use more services.
Hospitals are already going broke because medicaid and Medicare do not cover costs. M+M pay a forced by government reduced rate thus the hospitals charge us and private insurers all more to make keep themselves in business! What happens when the government only pays less than costs and everyone is government insured? No Hospitals!
There is no cost addressing at all in the Dem bills if they wanted to address costs they would put in tort rferom so a bunch of John Edwards type trial scumbag lawyers could not win multimillion dollar lawsuits in front of nitwit juries by channeling the dead. Pharmaceutical companies would not be driven to France to make flu vaccines because of the fear of the same lawsuits and insane regulations.
This is a big bone to the trial lawyers,
to the unions, SEIU, who have tried desperately to unionize hospitals and doctors offices,
and AARP thinks it will get the big payoff in increased insurance sales as the Dims will make them the favored carrier and put all private plans at a distinct disadvantage.
I plan on havin surgery the day before Thanksgiving to minimize loss of work time and my doctor agrees so I am confident he will do a good job. I definitely would not be going to a Union Doctor who was forced by Government to work the day before a holiday for the same procedure!
Anyone playing games and doin the dance with the Pinnochio admin and Pelosi and company had better look to the car dealers, banks and investment companies to see what happens when you make a deal with the DEVIL!
dhunter on November 5, 2009 at 11:37 AM
Good question – with this type of ‘precedence’ what is there to restrain the growth of an all powerful government?
Juno77 on November 5, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 Next »