Breaking: Massacre at Fort Hood; Update: Feds tracked Hasan’s posts online for six months? Update: Surveillance video added

posted at 3:44 pm on November 5, 2009 by Allahpundit

No word yet on motive, but the fact that at least three gunmen are involved already has Shuster and Miklaszewski mentioning similarities to the Fort Dix Six plot on MSNBC. Seven dead, 12 wounded so far. Supposedly two of the gunmen are still at large and one has fired shots at the SWAT team on the scene.

Stand by for updates.

Update: New details from CNN: One gunman “neutralized,” one “cornered,” no word on the third. The shooting happened at the “sports dome,” a.k.a. the soldier readiness station.

Update: Whether there are two shooters or three seems to be in dispute at the moment, but there’s certainly more than one: The second shooting on the base evidently occurred at a theater.

Update: M-16s involved:

At least seven people have been killed and at least 12 more wounded in a mass shooting at Fort Hood Army Base near Killeen, Texas, that apparently began minutes before a graduation ceremony was to begin at a base sports complex, Pentagon officials said.

Details of the events were sketchy, but officials said the shooting involved two men with M-16 rifles and began about 1:30 p.m. Central time at Howze Theater on the base, then moved to the sports complex, where the graduation ceremony was scheduled to begin at 2 p.m. It was not immediately clear who the ceremony was honoring.

Update: Fox News says there are reports that the men were dressed in fatigues.

Update: Hearing reports on Twitter that there have been shootings in the parking lot of some store in Killeen, the town adjacent in Fort Hood. Grain of salt, though: I haven’t seen anything like that on the wires.

Update: One of the shooters is alive and in custody. We should have a motive soon.

Update: MSNBC TV says two shooters are in custody now.

Update: CNN now says the death toll is nine.

Update: MSNBC’s story has been updated to say that four SWAT members were wounded in the shootout with the gunmen.

Update: Am hearing via Twitter that Fort Hood’s public affairs office says the earlier reports of a third shooter were wrong and were based on a second eyewitness report of the second shooter. Which means everyone’s in custody now.

Update: Heavy suspicions of a fragging grow heavier still. From Chuck Todd’s Twitter account: “More from NBC’s Pete Williams: US official says early reports are the man in custody is in the military, late 30s, with officer rank.”

Update: Good lord — there’s a report from BNO News on Twitter that new shooting is being heard on the base. Nothing on the wires yet. Big grain of salt.

Update: Press conference being held now. 12 dead, 31 wounded. No idea of motive yet but it sounds like both shooters are military. Or rather, were: One of the shooters is dead.

Update: Okay, wait, I misunderstood: According to MSNBC, there were three shooters. One is dead, two more are in custody. Has there ever been a case of “battle stress” that involved a conspiracy by multiple people?

Update: From the local Fox affiliate, how it all went down. Evidently McClatchy’s report of M-16s was wrong:

According to officials, a soldier carrying two handguns opened fire at about 1:30 p.m. Thursday at the Soldier Readiness Center at the post in Killeen, Texas.

“It would be an environment that would be very susceptible to casualties or injuries,” Killeen City Manager Connie Green said.

Officials said the gunman was shot and killed after quick response from security officers.

At least two other soldiers were taken into custody.

Update: Hmmmm: “A senior administration official told NBC News analyst Roger Cressey that the suspect who was in custody was an Army major with an Arabic-sounding name. The official said the shootings could have been a criminal matter rather than a terrorism-related attack and that there was no intelligence to suggest a plot against Fort Hood.”

Update: The suspect’s name, via ABC: Major Malik Nadal Hasan.

The suspected gunman was identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan. He was killed and two other suspects have been apprehended, Lt. Robert W. Cone said.

The gunman used two handguns, Cone said. He wasn’t sure if the shooter reloaded the weapons during the attack.

The general called the attack “a terrible tragedy, stunning.” He said the community was “absolutely devastated.”

According to Brian Ross at ABC, Hasan was a convert to Islam.

Update: In case you’re wondering whether the other two soldiers in custody were actual accomplices or just being questioned because they knew Hasan, Rick Perry just said at the presser he’s holding that all three were shooters.

Update: CBS reports that Hasan was a licensed psychiatrist in Maryland, of all things. Meanwhile, Kay Bailey Hutchison apparently has info that Hasan was upset about being deployed to Iraq. Which, without further specifics as to why, doesn’t tell us much given the possible motives in play.

Update: This story deserves its own post but an update here will have to do: Remember that census worker who was found hanged, allegedly with the word “Fed” scrawled on his chest, which was of course instantly the fault of bloodthirsty wingnuts everywhere? The AP reports today that investigators increasingly doubt he was murdered and are looking now at suicide. Just something to bear in mind when the tut-tutting over making assumptions about Hasan begins tomorrow.

Update: Per the last update, here’s another reminder of why it’s always a bad idea to speculate too much: Contra Brian Ross, the AP says it’s unclear what Hasan’s religion was or whether he was a convert.

Update: And yet another reminder: Hearing rumblings on Twitter right now that Perry was wrong and that the two other “suspects” have now been released. Was Hasan, in fact, a lone gunman? If so, how’d those four SWAT members end up wounded? Surely he didn’t surprise them all after they arrived on the scene.

Update: Something else worth flagging re: the tut-tutting about motives and speculation: The media had no problem today, even in its earliest reports on the shooting, noting how many soldiers have suffered from combat stress. In fact, apparently, it was one of the ways Charlie Gibson framed his report on tonight’s ABC News.

Update: If Hasan was a lone gunman, how could the general at his presser earlier say there were eyewitness accounts of more than one gunman? And if neither of the two suspects in custody are that other gunman, then where is he?

Update: Of the 11 killed (beside Hasan), 10 were soldiers and one was a cop.

Update: For what it’s worth, an eyewitness report of Arabic being shouted during the attack:

Hunt said his son told him he loaded up many of the wounded and drove them to the hospital. The wounded relayed what they saw inside when the shooting happened.

“They were telling him that one guy was shouting something in Arabic while he was shooting,” Tom Hunt said. “He couldn’t say much more than that.”

Update: No mention of shouting in this eyewitness report, though:

George Stratton’s son George Stratton III was five feet away from the shooter at the Soldier Readiness Center and suffered a gunshot wound to his left shoulder.

“He said he was there doing medical stuff and all of a sudden someone came through the door, walked behind the desk and just started shooting,” Stratton told FoxNews.com.

He said about 15 rounds went off and people started dropping to the floor.

“He peaked up over the desk and that’s when he was shot in the shoulder, and he just went down again. He said he saw one of his NCOs get badly shot,” Stratton told FoxNews.com after talking to his son in the hospital.

Update: Hasan’s performance evaluation while at Walter Reed was, perhaps not surprisingly, a poor one.

Update: Lots of buzz on Twitter about Shep Smith’s interview with a colleague of Hasan’s who claims he was known to say things about standing up to the American aggressors in the Middle East. I can’t find a clip or print account, though. If you see one, please e-mail it to our tips account; I don’t have time to follow the comments below.

Update: Local news is reporting that one of the wounded has died. 12 now besides Hasan.

Update: Apparently, one of Hasan’s cousins just told Shep that he’s always been Muslim, not a recent convert.

Update: So much for the “combat stress” theory: ABC News reports that his upcoming deployment to Iraq would have been Hasan’s first.

Update: Here’s the Shep interview with Ret. Col. Terry Lee alleging that Hasan thought Muslims should stand up and fight the “aggressor” and that he was “happy” about the shooting in Little Rock. Apparently Hasan was also increasingly agitated by the fact that Obama hasn’t pulled out of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Update: The two suspects detained earlier were released, but according to Rep. John Carter, another one was just hauled in.

Update: Here’s another Shep interview that people are buzzing about, this one with Hasan’s cousin. The cousin says Hasan decided after 9/11 that he didn’t want to deploy overseas, that he heard horrific stories from returning soldiers, and that he was harassed by other troops.

Update: The circumstantial evidence mounts. This certainly jibes with what Terry Lee told Shep:

Federal law enforcement officials say the suspected Fort Hood, Texas, shooter had come to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats.

The officials say the postings appeared to have been made by Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who was killed during the shooting incident that left least 11 others dead and 31 wounded. The officials say they are still trying to confirm that he was the author. They say an official investigation was not opened…

One of the Web postings that authorities reviewed is a blog that equates suicide bombers with a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save the lives of his comrades.

The $64,000 questions: What was he doing at Fort Hood among the population if he thought suicide bombers were heroes? And why are the feds tipping the AP about this if they haven’t even confirmed that he was the author yet?

Update: Another good question from Andy Levy: “If Hassan got poor performance evaluations, why was he promoted to Major in May?” Also, why didn’t they grant him a discharge if what his cousin said is true about him not wanting to deploy since 9/11? Why did they keep this guy around? Fox could track down Terry Lee in a few hours to have him talk about Hasan urging Muslims to stand up to America, but the Army couldn’t do it in a few years?

Update: Here’s what Hasan supposedly wrote about suicide bombers:

“To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause,” said the Internet posting. “Scholars have paralled (sic) this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers.”

Update: So poor and fragmented have the early media reports about this been that only now, after 9 p.m. ET, do we learn that … Hasan’s still alive. He’s in stable condition. And, according to the general conducting the briefing going on right now, he appears to be a lone gunman.

Update: This appears to be Hasan’s original Internet posting about suicide bombers in full. Quote:

There was a grenade thrown amongs a group of American soldiers. One of the soldiers, feeling that it was to late for everyone to flee jumped on the grave with the intention of saving his comrades. Indeed he saved them. He inentionally took his life (suicide) for a noble cause i.e. saving the lives of his soldier. To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause. Scholars have paralled this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory. Their intention is not to die because of some despair. The same can be said for the Kamikazees in Japan. They died (via crashing their planes into ships) to kill the enemies for the homeland. You can call them crazy i you want but their act was not one of suicide that is despised by Islam. So the scholars main point is that “IT SEEMS AS THOUGH YOUR INTENTION IS THE MAIN ISSUE” and Allah (SWT) knows best.

Emphasis added.

Update: A military reader e-mails to answer Andy Levy’s question of why even a poor officer would be promoted:

I served in the Air Force as a psychologist. I believe the way the rank works within in the medical corp is similar in the Army. If you were a medical officer, you had to try very hard to not make rank. They are not even required to go through much of the Military Education in order to make rank (a luxury other officers did not have). I had a friend who was a psychiatrist who went through the same medical program this Army Major went through (based on the years I’ve heard reported, they may have overlapped one another to some extent). When you go through this program, you owe 10-13 years for medical school and residency (maybe more, depending on any additional training you go through). The military will get there commitment back. My friend did his medical school, residency, and a fellowship in child psychiatry and he owed something like 17 years. He made LtCol without any effort. In fact, he often laughed about it, like he got it for his MD and breathing. Another Air Force psychiatrist friend of mine hates being in the USAF and is not quiet about it (though certainly not in the same way as this Army Major): has had many disciplinary problems, including having suspended credentials in our hospital; and in the midst of this, made Major. Go figure.

Update: The media Narrative on this story is congealing as we speak. Assume you’re an eager beaver reporter who’s as anti-war as the next fellow in the newsroom. How do you frame a story about a murderous lunatic who’s never been deployed overseas to serve your agenda? Why, this way of course: “Fort Hood has felt strain of repeated deployments”.

Update: WaPo reports that Hasan is “very devout”:

Hasan attended the Muslim Community Center in Silver Spring and was “very devout,” according to Faizul Khan, a former imam at the center. Khan said Hasan attended prayers at least once a day, seven days a week, often in his Army fatigues.

Khan also said Hasan applied to an annual matrimonial seminar that matches Muslims looking for spouses. “I don’t think he ever had a match, because he had too many conditions,” Khan said.

“We never got into details of worldly affairs or politics,” the former imam said of his conversations with Hasan. “Mostly religious questions. But there was nothing extremist in his questions. He never showed any frustration. . . . He never showed any . . . wish for vengeance on anybody.”

Update: More devotion: “A former neighbor of Hasan’s in Silver Spring, Md. told Fox News he lived there for two years with his brother and had the word ‘Allah’ on the door.”

Update: So here’s where we are right now, near 11 p.m. ET. This guy raged about Muslims standing up to aggressors, praised suicide bombers, and the lead theory in the media is … PTSD? For a guy who’s … never been deployed? A friend just e-mailed me with a good question: Even if he was suffering from some type of trauma from listening to vets’ war stories, shouldn’t a shrink trained in dealing with trauma been able to diagnose himself and seek treatment?

Update: And now a little more about just how devout he was, this time from NPR:

A source tells NPR’s Joseph Shapiro that Hasan was put on probation early in his postgraduate work at the Uniformed Service University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md. He was disciplined for proselytizing about his Muslim faith with patients and colleagues, according to the source, who worked with him at the time.

I’m hearing on Twitter that Fox interviewed one of his neighbors within the last half-hour or so and that the neighbor claims Hasan was handing out Korans just this morning. Does anyone have video? Or is this a bad lead? Smells fishy to me but multiple people have mentioned it.

Update: Ryan Lewis offers this transcript: “Brenda Price of KUSJ reported to Greta at 10:33: ‘also, the latest I am hearing, this morning, apparently according to his neighbors, he was walking around kind of giving out his possessions, giving away his furniture, handing out the Koran…’” Sounds like her information is secondhand. Grain of salt.

Update: Credit to WaPo for looking at Hasan’s religious background despite the flak they’ll take for it. New details:

He steered clear of female colleagues, co-workers said, and despite devout religious practices, listed himself in Army records as having no religious preference…

“He came to mosque one or two times to see if there were any suitable girls to marry,” Khan said. “I don’t think he ever had a match, because he had too many conditions. He wanted a girl who was very religious, prays five times a day.”…

A co-worker at Walter Reed said Hasan would not allow his photo to be taken with female co-workers, which became an issue during Christmas season when employees often took group photos. Co-workers would find a solo photo of Hasan and post it on the bulletin board without his permission.

Update: Ah, here’s a source for the Koran story told on Greta: “News Channel 25′s Henry Rosoff has learned the Hasan, was giving all of his furniture along with copies of the Qu’ ran to neighbors Thursday morning.”

Update: Evidently CNN is airing surveillance footage from a convenience store camera taken this just morning showing Hasan in a traditional Muslim cap and robe. Supposedly, according to an employee, he talked about his deployment and said he didn’t want to kill other Muslims. I’ll update with the clip once they post it.

Update: Here’s the clip. I think this is it for tonight.


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funny thing is, ALL of this violence and hatred

ITS IN THE KORAN

battleoflepanto1571 on November 5, 2009 at 11:10 PM

Clearly not a jihadi/islamist. Very devout is five times a day.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 10:24 PM

You don’t have to attend prayers five times a day to be devout. You just have to pray five times a day to be devout.

dave264 on November 5, 2009 at 11:11 PM

I go out on one date, and all hell breaks loose. Maybe I shouldn’t date, for the sake of national security, and all that.

DFCtomm on November 5, 2009 at 11:11 PM

Breaking News: Janet Napolitano is presently looking for sleeper cells in Waco, TX. and Ruby Ridge.

Dire Straits on November 5, 2009 at 11:11 PM

I find it mind boggling that as much as Obama seeks to be at all times and places visible he did not come out tonight and make a statement to the country about this tragedy. His only public comment coming almost as an afterthought to a pre-planned speech to an Indian (Native American) group. Really? Really? Aren’t these his troops? Isn’t he CinC? Speaks volumes.

Willie on November 5, 2009 at 11:00 PMI find it mind boggling that as much as Obama seeks to be at all times and places visible he did not come out tonight and make a statement to the country about this tragedy. His only public comment coming almost as an afterthought to a pre-planned speech to an Indian (Native American) group. Really? Really? Aren’t these his troops? Isn’t he CinC? Speaks volumes.

Willie on November 5, 2009 at 11:00 PM

Obama is probably running various statements through various focus groups to see which future statement will get him the highest favorable ratings with the public.

Basil Fawlty on November 5, 2009 at 11:11 PM

Have you asked him? Do you know what the Hadiths are?

gh on November 5, 2009 at 10:55 PM

Yes, I know all about the koran, the haddiths, “The Night Journey”, all the major. and many of the minor, works of the islamic tradition.

Do you really want me to deconstruct the abborent death cult of mohammad, now, here, on this topic? You might think to get away with al-Taqiyya, or trying presenting a fiqh that 0.00001% of muslems adhere to as a majority.

I assure you that would be a mistake, I know enough about islam, and the mass murderer, criminal, slave owner, rapist, pedophile mohammad to condemn it, and him, a thousand times over.

Rebar on November 5, 2009 at 11:12 PM

Many questions have been asked about why the army would retain a U S hating fanatic who, in addition to openly expressing sympathy for our terrorist enemies, balked at going to Iraq and got a poor evaluation. Answer a shortage of doctors (psychiatrist a doctor with a psychology degree). Wait until Obamacare goes into effect-the doctor shortage will be sp severe that they’ll be making medical officers out of anyone who can handle a pair of scissors without dropping them.

As to why the non-stop US hater joined the Army. They put him through school at a cost of $500,00 or more. He used us and his gratitude was 12 murders.

Now we will spend even more money defending this creep as he will continue to publicly diss us and complain about “brutality.”

MaiDee on November 5, 2009 at 11:12 PM

We are better because we as conservatives stick to our principles even when it is hard. In fact, when it is hardest to do so is when we must cling to them the tightest. Anything else is to become what we despair: morally bankrupt, intellectually dishonest, unprincipled, ethically ambiguous creatures of our lesser emotions.

nemecizer on November 5, 2009 at 11:09 PM

I am praying that there are many so-called Moby types on this thread if you catch my drift.

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:12 PM

Thank you Jerricho88, and I am still waiting for the Musim defenders to bring up where the moderates have condemned this crime. Might have to wait for eternity.

garydt on November 5, 2009 at 11:12 PM

If so they have a lot to answer for.

MB4 on November 5, 2009 at 11:07 PM

They would have much more to answer for if they had picked him up preemptively. The PC leftists would have crucified them for racism and racial profiling.

csdeven on November 5, 2009 at 11:13 PM

Perhaps you will one day come to realize that to let hatred fester, even when there are understandable reasons for the anger, is never acceptable.

Duh… so people vent…so you agree with the posters…ok…

jerrytbg on November 5, 2009 at 11:14 PM

As to why the non-stop US hater joined the Army. They put him through school at a cost of $500,00 or more. He used us and his gratitude was 12 murders.

Now we will spend even more money defending this creep as he will continue to publicly diss us and complain about “brutality.”

MaiDee on November 5, 2009 at 11:12 PM

This guy is going to get little sympathy or support no matter what. If his superiors failed to take action on warning signs we will see resignations.

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:14 PM

GH,, have the moderate muslims spoken out against this crime? I am not holding my breath on this one. I know if there are moderates they probably do fear to speak out against these terrorists. When I was a kid I don’t even remember much about muslims until they got sassy and tried to eliminate Israel. from then on they have been nothing but trouble.

garydt on November 5, 2009 at 11:07 PM

Well the islamists (CAIR) have spoken out against it … don’t think they count though. If the “alleged” perpetrator is really an islamist, they’ll provide him a lawyer as well. I suspect that he’s not well-enough connected to warrant that.

The moderate muslims who do speak out do not get much press.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:14 PM

beachgirlusa on November 5, 2009 at 10:27 PM

bg–you need to understand Lox’s sense of humor–you said the you had come to respect him and he was kidding you back. Relax…

lovingmyUSA on November 5, 2009 at 11:15 PM

You know it is interesting. I treated you with respect and you come back with that silliness. Bad day at work?

What made you fall to the floor in a swoon, my use of “Haysoos Marimba” or “Whew”, because the rest of the question was legitimate.

Nemecizer threw out a blanket statement about this entire episode being “racism” when obviously he has no idea what any of our skin colors or even religions are in real life.

So the question stands: Can a white Christian be racist against a White Muslim based on the difference in religion? If so, then that is a pretty wide net being cast.

Bishop on November 5, 2009 at 11:15 PM

But more than that, the vile spewing racism that some have displayed on this forum reflects on all conservatives.

nemecizer on November 5, 2009 at 11:09 PM

There’s been no racism shown here. The only vile spewing I’ve seen is your constant slanderous generalizations of the good people here and the only thing embarrassing conservatives is your describing yourself as one.

Dusty on November 5, 2009 at 11:16 PM

If so they have a lot to answer for.

MB4 on November 5, 2009 at 11:07 PM

Will they admit they had orders not to “profile”? I hope so. America needs to have the lid blown off the liberal PC pile of shinola that is bleeding us dry.

SouthernGent on November 5, 2009 at 11:17 PM

If he gets that, I hope they’re all Jewish and look like Rosie O’Donnell.

Liam on November 5, 2009 at 11:05 PM

I kinda hope the shooter’s 72 virgins will look more like Henry Waxman.

TXUS on November 5, 2009 at 11:18 PM

Will they admit they had orders not to “profile”? I hope so. America needs to have the lid blown off the liberal PC pile of shinola that is bleeding us dry.

SouthernGent on November 5, 2009 at 11:17 PM

It wouldn’t be profiling if they were acting based on his Internet postings.

dedalus on November 5, 2009 at 11:19 PM

nemecizer on November 5, 2009 at 11:09 PM

By calling yourself a conservative you reflect poorly on me.

Mormon Doc on November 5, 2009 at 11:19 PM

This thread is moving so fast, need three pages to keep up…

hawkdriver on November 5, 2009 at 10:49 PM

Nice to know your still safe. Thanks for your service.

csdeven on November 5, 2009 at 10:45 PM

Exactly!

rukiddingme on November 5, 2009 at 11:19 PM

So the question stands: Can a white Christian be racist against a White Muslim based on the difference in religion? If so, then that is a pretty wide net being cast.

Bishop on November 5, 2009 at 11:15 PM

Go search racism then racism and religion.

Yes white Christians can be racist against white Muslims based on 21st Century views of the term.

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:20 PM

But more than that, the vile spewing racism that some have displayed on this forum reflects on all conservatives.

nemecizer on November 5, 2009 at 11:09 PM

So calling someone muslim is a slur. Is that your position?

Ronnie on November 5, 2009 at 11:20 PM

Hopefully, people will not hesitate to report this kind of stuff and raise the red flags. We have to assume there are others like this guy in the service.

Christien on November 5, 2009 at 11:01 PM

If the story about Hasan’s Jihad-like rants and FBI monitoring is correct, I assume this information was passed up the line, in both the military and the FBI. I want to know who the names of every person in the management chain, what they knew, when, and what they did with that information. If I was in that chain, I would have been demanding this man be under 24/7 armed surveillance, at least, and that all information about him go straight to the top of the base, the Pentagon and the FBI.

Loxodonta on November 5, 2009 at 11:20 PM

So calling someone muslim is a slur. Is that your position?

Ronnie on November 5, 2009 at 11:20 PM

These childish games of semantics are becoming tiresome.

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:21 PM

I kinda hope the shooter’s 72 virgins will look more like Henry Waxman.

TXUS on November 5, 2009 at 11:18 PM

No worries. He’ll probably die in a nuthouse, of old age, agonizing the families and today’s survivors, and some of us.

Schadenfreude on November 5, 2009 at 11:22 PM

I’m not a leftist but I know moderate muslims.
gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:04 PM

So does Ibn Warraq, who writes (roughly): “Though there are moderate Muslims, there is no such thing as moderate Islam.

And it depends on your definition of “moderate”. Even Ibn Warraq basically makes the same point as Jerricho68 IMHO, but explains that it is the kind of behavior/sentiment we in the West label “moderate” that is labeled apostasy at al-Azhar University (the closest thing worldwide Islam has to the Vatican) or the various schools of Islamic jurisprudence.

RD on November 5, 2009 at 11:22 PM

morally bankrupt, intellectually dishonest, unprincipled, ethically ambiguous creatures of our lesser emotions.

Failing to advocate for better treatment of the human beings locked up at Gitmo isn’t morally bankrupt? They’re human beings, kept against their will without charge, “shackled and humiliated and forced to do things against their will.”

Why have you sold your morality for the lack of a simple citizenship document?

Bishop on November 5, 2009 at 11:22 PM

Yes white Christians can be racist against white Muslims based on 21st Century views of the term.

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:20 PM

what?

so race=religion?

so if i take a standardized test, and it asks for race, i can put “episcopal”?

GO BACK TO DEARBORN

battleoflepanto1571 on November 5, 2009 at 11:22 PM

Sonosam on November 5, 2009 at 11:09 PM

Shut up, whackjob.

Blake on November 5, 2009 at 11:22 PM

TXUS on November 5, 2009 at 11:18 PM

more like this.

jerrytbg on November 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM

These childish games of semantics are becoming tiresome.

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:21 PM

This from the character who thinks there’s white on white racism.

Ronnie on November 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Rebar on November 5, 2009 at 11:12 PM

I don’t dispute the life of Mohammed.

However, the islamist interpretation of the Koran is not held by the majority of muslims. The best evidence is that about 15% of muslims world-wide support the islamists view.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM

I’m not a leftist but I know moderate muslims.
gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:04 PM

No, you don’t.

You know non-practicing muslims.

You either believe the koran (sharia! ummah! earthly conquest! mo’s rules for everyone!) or you don’t (freedom, tolerance, respect for other faiths)

There’s no middle.

You know “former muslims”.

battleoflepanto1571 on November 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Do any of the leftists here believe that there are moderate Muslims?
garydt on November 5, 2009 at 11:01 PM

You mean like our NATO allies in Turkey?

JohnGalt23 on November 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM

This from the character who thinks there’s white on white racism.

Ronnie on November 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM

My English cousins told me great jokes about the irish …

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:24 PM

I don’t dispute the life of Mohammed.

However, the islamist interpretation of the Koran is not held by the majority of muslims. The best evidence is that about 15% of muslims world-wide support the islamists view.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM

1. yes, it is. which is why EVERY MUSLIM COUNTRY HAS SOME FORM OF SHARIA LAW

2. even if you ARE right, what that means is that 200-300,000,000 muslims hold those views RIGHT NOW.

“only” 200 million!!!!!

battleoflepanto1571 on November 5, 2009 at 11:24 PM

Go search racism then racism and religion.
Yes white Christians can be racist against white Muslims based on 21st Century views of the term.
CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:20 PM

Well then like I said, the term “racism” is certainly casting quite the wide net, though I’m willing to bet that the 21st century view of the term as you describe it isn’t as popular or common as you might wish to believe.

If any part of that was too silly for you, I apologize, I’ve had a long day at work.

Bishop on November 5, 2009 at 11:25 PM

My English cousins told me great jokes about the irish …

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:24 PM

Now Irish is a race?

Ronnie on November 5, 2009 at 11:25 PM

nemecizer on November 5, 2009 at 11:09 PM

You aren’t the parent of the people at HA. You are not endearing yourself to anyone here with your insults. Therefore you make your presence here ineffective. You should have made your point about civility and then accepted that these folks are grieving and you understand their feelings. You cannot preach that you have a higher moral standing and then act beneath it.

Most of them are adults and would come to their own conclusions eventually. And if they don’t, Allah will deal with them.

But it’s your choice how you are remembered here. I am simply trying to give support to those whose hearts have been ripped from their chests and rightfully feel betrayed by the atmosphere of political correctness that has weakened this country’s ability to defend itself. We do not see the scales of justice being balanced by the 12 lives and 31 injured. We feel the exact opposite. Why even pretend we have a sense of justice when the fear of the PC police costs innocent lives and all you can do is deride those who vent about it.

csdeven on November 5, 2009 at 11:25 PM

Boy, we have two extremes in this thread, both crazy as hell.

Blake on November 5, 2009 at 11:26 PM

I have to go to work now, but will look in when I get a chance–ought to be at least another 10 pages by then…

lovingmyUSA on November 5, 2009 at 11:26 PM

You mean like our NATO allies in Turkey?

JohnGalt23 on November 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM

the same Turkey that would be ruled by their muslim brotherhood if it weren’t for the ruling parties’ electoral fraud?

or the same turkey that invaded ‘infidel’ cyprus in the 1970s for nothing more than ideology?

or the Turkey that massacred 1.5 (or was it 2) MILION christian armenians “just because” — and teach their children it NEVER HAPPENED?

some “ally”. we couldnt even use their land to invade iraq in ’03 — think of how many more servicemen died because of that.

battleoflepanto1571 on November 5, 2009 at 11:26 PM

battleoflepanto1571 on November 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM

I know an Ishmaeli family. They are Shias. Your CAIR friends may consider them apostates.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:26 PM

So is Scientologist a race now?

Jerricho68 on November 5, 2009 at 11:26 PM

battleoflepanto1571 on November 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Bingo! We have a winner. That is how to slice through the BS and get to the heart of the matter.

+1

Mormon Doc on November 5, 2009 at 11:27 PM

the liberals made a comfy bed for stupid muslims to sleep in while deriding Bush in an effort to break muslims free from their captors.

With the exception of the Iraqis and to some extent Afghanis it seems that the muslims that arent in the line of fire are very comfortable in saying how bad Bush is for his fight against these scum

Notice how a great many of our supporters in this arena also happen top be fresh off of soviet rule but what does that matter either.

No, if you support liberty or the its premise you are on the outside of the lib commies.

Its amazing to think just how culpable libs are in the support of totalitarianism

obama gets a piecc prise for nada

President Bush fights the worst of the worst and frees a whole region from the same and gets ridiculed.

the left are either idealists who know nothing or wanton savages who know exactly what there target is

Hell, obaongo interceded in Honduras, protecting a radical who violated the countries constitution in an attempt to put himself in permanent power.

yet , not a peep from moron libs.

even the shitbag u.n. didnt support such an effort, where does that put the chosen dummy?

Sonosam on November 5, 2009 at 11:28 PM

I know an Ishmaeli family. They are Shias. Your CAIR friends may consider them apostates.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:26 PM

so do they see sharia as legit or not?

do they believe in the ability to leave islam or not?

do they see any land ever taken by muslims as “theirs” or not?

battleoflepanto1571 on November 5, 2009 at 11:28 PM

You do not show a child compassion when you let them behave badly, even if they are emotional. You do them a disservice.

But you give all kinds of excuses and respect to Hasan, who murdered American troops, don’t you?

You have your priorities skewed and haven’t really read a thing posted by others with heartfelt reasonings. That says more about you than about us.

But more than that, the vile spewing racism that some have displayed on this forum reflects on all conservatives. Therefore, it reflects badly on *me*. It gives ammunition to our adversaries across the aisle, who have no compunction to use it against us.

It’s not racism to have concerns over Islam, for Islam as publically known worldwide, is out to kill. If there’s a ‘moderate’ majority, they’re doing nothing. And you know it, too. If the radicals are so small a group, and the moderates are doing nothing, what does that say?

Draw your own conclusions.

I am sorry that you think I am behaving badly. Perhaps you will one day come to realize that to let hatred fester, even when there are understandable reasons for the anger, is never acceptable.

You mix hatred and anger as if they’re one and the same, failing to know the difference. Hatred is killing. Anger is wishing the perpetrators of hate are killed. Feelings are VALID, not necessarily actions. You excuse actions while condemning feelings of decent people. There is not a moral equivalence though you can’t find room in your head to believe that.

Holding the moral high ground is not a popularity contest. It’s hard to do the right thing. But in the end taking the high road is the only sustainable path to truly hold dear to our principles. Anything else is a betrayal of what we claim, as conservatives, to believe.

Talk to any lib and see if they think you hold some moral high ground. The very idea, personally held, to holding superior morality is nothing less than conceit. You doing it, as a self-alleged conservative, says you’re much like liberals.

Get over yourself.

You rail against us here, yet you’re the first to directly claim YOU hold superior morality. THAT is not being conservative. At lest, not like the good people here who love our country and want the best for the future of those we love.

And though you deny being a relativist, you are. You compare your morals against ours, deciding yours is superior.

Read what I say very carefully, and take it to heart. You may not like the messenger, but if you truly want to call yourself conservative, then you really can’t object to the message.

We can object to the message for it’s full of arrogance–the arrogance of the messenger: YOU.

Leave people their pain. Rather than condemn their feelings, learn to understand and help them through. You want people to your side? Hey, that’s great, maybe your right.

But have the common decency to give what you demand of us, and just hold a person’s hand if for a moment.

I, and the other cons I know here, will hold a liberal’s hand in an instant if that person lost someone in Iraq. We would listen to them rail about Bush, and war, and everything else.

The difference between us and you, is that we wouldn’t argue. We’d let that person vent.

And we wouldn’t let go that hand no matter what.

Liam on November 5, 2009 at 11:28 PM

So the question stands: Can a white Christian be racist against a White Muslim based on the difference in religion? If so, then that is a pretty wide net being cast.

Bishop on November 5, 2009 at 11:15 PM

Go search racism then racism and religion.

Yes white Christians can be racist against white Muslims based on 21st Century views of the term.

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:20 PM

As much as I disagree with a lot of the virulent anti-Islamic stuff in this thread, that ain’t racism. You’d have to say that Catholics vs Protestants in Northern Ireland was also racism.

ddrintn on November 5, 2009 at 11:30 PM

battleoflepanto1571 on November 5, 2009 at 11:24 PM

200M is not the majority of muslims.

Anyhow. The 15% is the fraction who are sympathetic to the islamists. Far fewer are eager suicide bombers. According to the polls.

I don’t really know how many extremists there are and nor do you.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:30 PM

some “ally”.

Turkey is a cr@p ally. They’re simply the best at disguising and covering-up their militantism.

Besides, they are discriminatory as Hell when it comes to the Kurds or Aremenians who they detest and find every reason to attack in or out of their borders.

JoeinTX on November 5, 2009 at 11:31 PM

So is Scientologist a race now?
Jerricho68 on November 5, 2009 at 11:26 PM

Depends; if a white male scientologist insults a white lesbian Shinto by calling her a queer, then that would be racism. Or…well yeah…definitely racism.

Bishop on November 5, 2009 at 11:31 PM

While I have not commented all day, I will pray for the fallen and their familys who will have to live with the pain one sick soul has delivered upon the innocent and the brave who have given so much for our freedom. The retribution is understood as much as the call for justice. We are an impatient nation when such travestys hit so close to all of us. Even numbnuts-nemecizer knows this while it feeds on your passions to soothe its own ego, a sad trepidation of solipsism. Pray for internal peace for these families who have been stricken—-they will need it more than the moral arguments we struggle with tonight.

Rovin on November 5, 2009 at 11:31 PM

Sonosam on November 5, 2009 at 11:09 PM
Shut up, whackjob.

Blake on November 5, 2009 at 11:22 PM

eat me

Sonosam on November 5, 2009 at 11:31 PM

Bishop on November 5, 2009 at 11:25 PM

Think I understand what you mean. Racist does not seem to apply in the traditional sense. Maybe call it…religionist.

rukiddingme on November 5, 2009 at 11:31 PM

I am shocked! I am becoming less and less thrilled about being a conservative. Do you even listen to yourself? Do you see what you are all writing?

The hatred is amazing! Yes this guy is scum, but he was born in the US, he flipped for some reason and you all have no idea what that is, but you have condemed the entire faith of islam and muslim backgrounds.

You know nothing yet about what has transpired here. What I do know is the following right now:

1) This guy was born in the US, his family has put out a heart warmed letter for the victims.

2) Security at the base is being done by private contractors? WTH is with that? I had no idea, but I do know that Bush / Cheney did this. And this is wrong, the military should be defending our bases, not private contractors!

3) Obama should of come out talking about the incident, not doinf shout outs.

I think everyone should take a deep breathe and wait for real details, a lot of conclusions have been drawn all day, and most have been wrong thus far.

damian1967 on November 5, 2009 at 11:32 PM

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM

More like 25%…and worldwide that adds up…

jerrytbg on November 5, 2009 at 11:32 PM

So is Scientologist a race now?

I don’t like them either. Screw ‘em, they’re a whacky cult…….throw in Jeffs’ Mormon sect while your at it.

JoeinTX on November 5, 2009 at 11:32 PM

or religionism… :)

rukiddingme on November 5, 2009 at 11:33 PM

battleoflepanto1571 on November 5, 2009 at 11:28 PM

As far as I know they are perfectly happy living in Canada and attend Mosque every Saturday[*] (according to my daughter who was in high school with their eldest and sees her regularly still at uni – both 2nd year engineers).

[*] Look up ishmaeli on wikipedia.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:33 PM

200M is not the majority of muslims.

Anyhow. The 15% is the fraction who are sympathetic to the islamists. Far fewer are eager suicide bombers. According to the polls.

I don’t really know how many extremists there are and nor do you.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:30 PM

i guess im just amazed that 15% of a religion wants me dead – AND TOLD A POLLSTER SO – and that 15% is greater than the ENTIRE adult voting base in the united states — and you dont care. its a heck of a lot higher than 15% – they dont interview in the heart of pakistan, nor in the ghettos of riyadh, and some folks are ‘timid’ to pollsters. surely we agree that it’s higher than 15%.

either way, i’d like to hear why you think its ok that 99% of them want to A) exterminate jews and B) capture a sovereign nation of israel (that they refuse to admit exists)

i mean, when your ENTIRE ‘religion’ wants DEATH to another religion, what’s a second one to hate (christianiy) thrown in?????????

battleoflepanto1571 on November 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM

The best evidence is that about 15% of muslims world-wide support the islamists view.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM

You’re seriously stating that 85% of muslems don’t believe the koran is the direct revelation of allah?

You are either lying through your teeth, or are hopelessly ignorant on the subject.

Rebar on November 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM

religionist.

rukiddingme on November 5, 2009 at 11:31 PM

It’s not a religion…it’s a political ideology with religious overtones…

jerrytbg on November 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM

He was disciplined for proselytizing about his Muslim faith with patients and colleagues

wow

runner on November 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM

damian1967 on November 5, 2009 at 11:32 PM

So are you saying non-Army security forces are incompetent?

csdeven on November 5, 2009 at 11:35 PM

I have to go to work now, but will look in when I get a chance–ought to be at least another 10 pages by then…

lovingmyUSA on November 5, 2009 at 11:26 PM

Please drive safely, and don’t let the crazies here drive you crazy.

Loxodonta on November 5, 2009 at 11:36 PM

csdeven

I am saying that our bases should be secure, and private companies have no business being responsible for that security.

Why are we paying private contractors that the Military has NOT trained to protect them?

Does not make sense.

damian1967 on November 5, 2009 at 11:36 PM

Think I understand what you mean. Racist does not seem to apply in the traditional sense. Maybe call it…religionist.
rukiddingme on November 5, 2009 at 11:31 PM

I was a bit put-off that a dictionary entry had to be used to support a wafer thin interpretation of the word, maybe because lately “racism” is becoming a big pot in which to catch all the assorted bigotry.

As was mentioned earlier, referring to the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland as a Race War is stretching the definition to extremes.

Bishop on November 5, 2009 at 11:36 PM

Sonosam on November 5, 2009 at 11:28 PM

Uggh–I call Moby.

ElectricPhase on November 5, 2009 at 11:37 PM

i guess im just amazed that 15% of a religion wants me dead – AND TOLD A POLLSTER SO

Very few of them want you dead. Jizya is probably sufficient.

You flatter yourself but your nic gives that away ;-)

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:37 PM

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:33 PM

Did you take part in Robert Spencer’s explanation of the Koran at Hot Air a few years back? If you did, did you miss the part where it was permissible to lie to infidels with no fear of sin?

csdeven on November 5, 2009 at 11:37 PM

Yes white Christians can be racist against white Muslims based on 21st Century views of the term.

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:20 PM

You must be tired, retarded or a Muslim. Which is it? White on white “racism” lol!

BL@KBIRD on November 5, 2009 at 11:38 PM

damian1967 on November 5, 2009 at 11:32 PM

Is this the first person to blame Pres. Bush? How can our soldiers be both deployed, training to deploy and securing the base? But thanks for stopping by to moralize, because we haven’t had any of that tonight.

Cindy Munford on November 5, 2009 at 11:38 PM

Sonosam on November 5, 2009 at 11:31 PM

If you are into gay sex you’ll have to talk to necromanzer or whatever he calls himself. You and he are just opposite sides of a whackjob coin.

Blake on November 5, 2009 at 11:38 PM

My English cousins told me great jokes about the irish …

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:24 PM

As did my Irish friends about other Irish.

Q: What’s the difference between an apple and an orange?

a: There’s no such thing as an Apple bastard.

JohnGalt23 on November 5, 2009 at 11:39 PM

Boy this is weird

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_racism

http://www.nde.state.ne.us/SS/irish/unit_2.html

Anti-Irish racism by whites in England

Well knock me over with a feather

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:39 PM

Does not make sense.

damian1967 on November 5, 2009 at 11:36 PM

I might have agreed with you at one point, but I have come to realize that most policies adopted by the military are well thought out and good for the service. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

What I want to know is why the feds had not pick the Major up months ago.

csdeven on November 5, 2009 at 11:39 PM

He was disciplined for proselytizing about his Muslim faith with patients and colleagues

wow

runner on November 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM

If someone did that who was not a doctor, they would have fired them.

Blake on November 5, 2009 at 11:40 PM

lovingmyUSA on November 5, 2009 at 11:26 PM

I hope you have better luck at work than I did after this happened. I was useless the rest of the day.

Cindy Munford on November 5, 2009 at 11:40 PM

If you happen to live in the North Texas area and are O Negative now would be a great time to donate blood. Or if you are up for it there is a great need for platelets too. Information for North Texas: 1-800-DONATE-4

In Waco you can go tomorrow to 4224 Cobbs Drive (next to the National Guard Armory), Waco Texas 76710 starting at 8 am or call the Red Cross.

In Temple -The Scott & White Blood Donor Center (in the Hospital near Fort Hood) has put out a call for all blood types.

The blood banks have been severely depleted, it’s entirely likely that those who were wounded today may need further transfusions.

batterup on November 5, 2009 at 11:40 PM

You are either lying through your teeth, or are hopelessly ignorant on the subject.

Rebar on November 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM

How many christians believe the bible is literally true ?

Have you read John-Paul IIs catechism (I’m not catholic but I’ve looked at it) ?

You need to get out more and read a little more widely.

Aren’t 200M islamists enough for you?

Call me liar again and I shall ignore you … and fart in your general direction.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:40 PM

Rebar on November 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM

More like ignorance…upwards of 25% are hardcore and the rest are sympathizers or enablers…
And very small percentage, (that are still alive) don’t live by it at all.

jerrytbg on November 5, 2009 at 11:40 PM

Last I knew the Irish were white. Must just have been racism againsth black Irish….my bad…./

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:40 PM

Boy, we have two extremes in this thread, both crazy as hell.

Blake on November 5, 2009 at 11:26 PM

LEAVE CRAZY PEOPLE ALONE!

Most mentally ill people are a lot nicer than a few of the extremists posting in this thread.

Loxodonta on November 5, 2009 at 11:40 PM

religionist.

rukiddingme on November 5, 2009 at 11:31 PM

It’s not a religion…it’s a political ideology with religious overtones…

jerrytbg on November 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM

Islam is an excuse for murder and conquest. Religion and politics are just offshoots of this agenda.

Mohammed was a bloodthirsty raider who killed for plunder amongst fellow tribesman. After meeting with Gabriel Lucifer, that son of a mangy dog Mohammed led his fellow bandits to kill all non-believers in the name of Allah. They never stopped.

chicagojedi on November 5, 2009 at 11:41 PM

Cindy Munford

I am blaming Bush, the private sector has no buiness securing our bases. Sorry but our armed forces are much more capable.

The private sector was brought in for no good reason, we must secure our own bases here and abroad with our almighty great soldiers. They are trained for that.

Not rely on private sector not knowing backgrounds and training.

damian1967 on November 5, 2009 at 11:41 PM

damian1967 on November 5, 2009 at 11:36 PM

The Lt. General said it is a mixture of MP’s and civilian police force.

Cindy Munford on November 5, 2009 at 11:42 PM

black Irish

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:40 PM

I rather like Philip Lynott.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:42 PM

What I want to know is why the feds had not pick the Major up months ago.

csdeven on November 5, 2009 at 11:39 PM

Because we have new rules now:

- no more “terrorists” – the term is verboten in this admin.
- we talk to and negotiate with all enemies now
- we actually sympathize with the Muslims, all of them
- if Obama wouldn’t be an atheist he’d probably still be one

Schadenfreude on November 5, 2009 at 11:42 PM

He was disciplined for proselytizing about his Muslim faith with patients and colleagues

wow

runner on November 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM

And then his cousin complains how this terrorist being treated.

the_nile on November 5, 2009 at 11:43 PM

nti-Irish racism by whites in England

Well knock me over with a feather

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:39 PM

Yes that would be the white Irish race vs. the white English race?

LOL

BL@KBIRD on November 5, 2009 at 11:43 PM

csdeven

I agree with you, it is disturbing on why there was not a better red flag brought up on this guy and why he was not pulled from service at the least with what was posted by him.

But it is also disturning on why a doctor was allowed and or able to bring two firearms onto the base.

damian1967 on November 5, 2009 at 11:43 PM

They never stopped.

chicagojedi on November 5, 2009 at 11:41 PM

Zombies? They died 13 centuries ago.

gh on November 5, 2009 at 11:43 PM

I am blaming Bush
damian1967 on November 5, 2009 at 11:41 PM

And so the leftist smear begins…

Somebody call the Waaaaaahhhmbulance.

chicagojedi on November 5, 2009 at 11:44 PM

2) Security at the base is being done by private contractors? WTH is with that? I had no idea, but I do know that Bush / Cheney did this.

You most certainly DON’T know this. Under Clinton, private security started up at England AFB and Ft. Polk in Louisiana. I do KNOW this from personal experience. Although, I doubt Clinton specifically had this idea himself or even presented it in any way shape or form. Most likely some bureaucrat told the Army that they could save money by putting in private security for some aspects of base operations.

In other words, SHUT UP ABOUT BUSH/CHENEY! This ain’t about Obama or Bush in any rational way.

Jason Coleman on November 5, 2009 at 11:44 PM

Update: So here’s where we are right now, near 11 p.m. ET. This guy raged about Muslims standing up to aggressors, praised suicide bombers, and the lead theory in the media is … PTSD? For a guy who’s … never been deployed? A friend just e-mailed me with a good question: Even if he was suffering from some type of trauma from listening to vets’ war stories, shouldn’t a shrink trained in dealing with trauma been able to diagnose himself and seek treatment?

Doesn’t even matter. Even if he wasn’t a psychiatrist who could recognize the signs, why would you seek out dozens of soldiers to kill? Why would he kill himself? Why wouldn’t he develop a substance abuse problem? Why wouldn’t he go AWOL? What, outside of Islamic terrorism, would possess him to open fire on dozens of innocent soldiers?

It’s quite clear he thought he was doing Allah’s work by fighting the people who viewed as Islam’s enemies.

By the way, is that turd nemecizer still here trying to lecture people who have been right this entire time? And one more reminder for our challenged friend – Islam isn’t a “race” so calling people’s comments on this “racism” is even more dumb than everything else you’ve said.

RightWinged on November 5, 2009 at 11:44 PM

Is this the first person to blame Pres. Bush? How can our soldiers be both deployed, training to deploy and securing the base? But thanks for stopping by to moralize, because we haven’t had any of that tonight.

Cindy Munford on November 5, 2009 at 11:38 PM

I wonder how many “czars” the Der Leader will lose that sign a petition that blames this on George W Bush? Remember Vann Jones! I am betting at least two!

Dire Straits on November 5, 2009 at 11:44 PM

damian1967 on November 5, 2009 at 11:41 PM

The indication from the Lt. General is that this base is the home of these soldiers. They need to be able to relax and fell safe when not on duty. Don’t forget Congress wants to scale back on military expenditures.

Cindy Munford on November 5, 2009 at 11:44 PM

CWforFreedom on November 5, 2009 at 11:40 PM

So today I have learned that religion is now a race, nationality is now a race – anything else? Is pretty much anything you say about another person racism?

Ronnie on November 5, 2009 at 11:44 PM

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