Open thread: NY-23; Update: Fox News calls it for Owens; Update: Hoffman concedes

posted at 8:52 pm on November 3, 2009 by Allahpundit

Here we go. Could be a 10-point win for Owens, could be a 10-point win for Hoffman. InTrade is betting heavily on the conservative.

The Watertown Daily Times will be updating as results come in, but you’re advised to check Newzjunky too. They’ve been all over the Hoffman saga since day one.

I don’t want to raise expectations too much, but if DH pulls this off and Christie squeaks through in New Jersey, we’re getting a humpbot cameo tonight. For the first time in a long, long time.

Update: The WDT results page is loading slowly. Try this one instead.

Update: Results are coming in very slowly but apparently exit polls had Hoffman by three, 50/47.

Update: With more than 10 percent of the vote in, Hoffman’s … down by seven. According to Marc Ambinder, Republicans in the district are very nervous. We’re not actually going to get a Christie upset and a Hoffman defeat, are we?

Update: Gingrich is writing his jeremiad about third-party challenges as we speak. From Dave Weigel:

WHOA – Hoffman splitting Madison County, where he was leading 2-1 in Siena Poll. Getting ready to say “Congressman Bill Owens.”

Update: A much-needed shot of hope from Erick Erickson: “Just talked to ppl close to Hoffman. They think he’s won. Owens votes in. Their sampling tracks with what we’re seeing.”

Update: At least one Hoffman supporter thinks it’s over.

Update: Hope and change — Hoffman narrowing the gap?

The Plattsburgh attorney has 57,050 votes compared to Conservative Doug Hoffman, a Lake Placid CPA, with 54,538 votes…

There are more than 10,000 absentee votes to still be counted…

Owens is maintaining a 48 percent to 46 percent lead.

Update: Chuck Todd notes that there may not be a call in this race tonight given that the absentee ballots won’t be counted until tomorrow. Fair enough, but if Hoffman’s still behind by three or four thousand votes at evening’s end, how likely is it that he’s going to make up the difference by winning 75 percent of those ballots?

Update: FNC has called it for the Democrat. Points to take away from the loss: (1) PPP’s last poll was way, waaaay off; (2) Scozzafava’s endorsement must have had some impact on her supporters, as it erased the five-point lead Hoffman held in the last Siena poll after she dropped out; (3) third-party challenges, while sometimes warranted, are a very risky proposition (attention Glenn Beck!); (4) the win in New Jersey, where The One staked his own political capital in campaigning for Corzine, was huge compared to the loss here; and (5) as I said over the weekend, the actual result of this race is unimportant. The point in torpedoing Scozzafava and swinging the GOP behind Hoffman was to send a message to the Republican leadership that only fiscal conservatives will be tolerated henceforth, and that message has been sent even with Owens winning a squeaker. The loss is disappointing but it’s a detail on an otherwise great night.

So great, in fact, that it deserves something special. This special.

Update: He’s not going to make up the difference in absentees, especially since many of them were sent in when Scozzafava was still in the race. So the time has come.


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It’s difficult to have a meaningful debate with someone who ‘doesn’t care either way’.

tatersalad on November 4, 2009 at 8:07 AM

That was similar to my comment above, a Rino has no standards so you really can’t win an argument, since they have no real established beliefs.

right2bright on November 4, 2009 at 8:09 AM

Define “try to weasel into rationalizing” please.

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:07 AM

Haha, yeah as soon as I saw that I had written that, I was like, “Proud Rino, that is terrible, terrible writing.” Because I call myself by my screen name in real life.

Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 8:10 AM

A third Party Candidate will not be necessary in NY23 in 2010. Conservative have taken the tug A War rope and pulled the NY23 more to the right. The country is 40% conservative not Rino.

Amadeus on November 4, 2009 at 8:10 AM

…My comments were in reference to people that actually like to win things.

Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 7:42 AM

Hey gang, has anyone thought of making a degrading comment based on Scozzafava’s last name? Wouldn’t that be funny?

Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 7:47 AM

“…and this year’s winner of the Scuzzyfavorite Lap-Dog Statuette is -drumroll, Mr. Waxman- PROUD RINO! Proud Rino, get on up here, you Scamp! Henry, tell’im what he’s won!”

“Well, Nancy, more taxes, poorer medical care, a bankrupt social security system, a disheartened, soon-to-be-second-rate military and the comforting knowledge that Israel is soon going to disappear like the house in Poltergeist.”

Doorgunner on November 4, 2009 at 8:11 AM

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:09 AM

Thats what Im sayin. You are not supposed to be able to checkmate yourself but somehow Proud Rino has.

Amadeus on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

I don’t really care either way. I said this race was meaningless before the election, and I still think it’s meaningless (in terms of actual results in the House).

at 8:04 AM

To write that with pride is to admit NOT knowing what you’re talking about, and not caring to think. either.

NY23 is a huge House seat.

maverick muse on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

Why was Hoffmann too far to the right…..get ready…. because it’s NEW YORK! Yes, New freakin YORK! If there is a bright conservative center to the universe, this is as far from it as you can get. Folks act as if everyone outside of New York City in NY are foot-washin’ Baptists just like them.

Sekhmet on November 4, 2009 at 8:08 AM

Give me some specifics as to why he was far to the right, your generalized and vapid answer is unsatisfactory. Specifically, why was he too far to the right?

He wasn’t, not for that district. Scozzafava was certainly too liberal though.

Daemonocracy on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

So, thanks to Sarah Palin (according to you), NY-23 will pick a conservative and win in 2010. So what the hell are you yapping about?

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:09 AM

No, thanks to Sarah Palin, NY-23 is a Democratic district now.

It doesn’t mean much, but the danger here is, if Sarah Palin is willing to throw the GOP under the bus and then keep getting Democrats elected, is anyone going to want her endorsement in any state where it might actually matter?

Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

My comments were in reference to people that actually like to win things.

Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 7:42 AM

Rome wasn’t built in a day.

venividivici on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

This race was huge with win or loss for Hoffman. Conservatives can and will make life miserable for RINOs! Principle means something. I’ll take a real democrap over a RINO every time. The message was loud and clear to RINOs everywhere…the base hates yur middle of the road compromise on evrything asses. Get the message fence sitting assholes?

jwp1964 on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

None of you should care either way. Democrats have 255 (or whatever) seats now. +/-1 means nothing.
Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 8:08 AM

Which has the crowd wondering why you are dancing around as if conservatism were just put in the grave for good.

Bishop on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

NY23 is a huge House seat.

maverick muse on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

Whoa really? Does that vote count more than other votes?

Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 8:13 AM

Way to go, Palin. You made Snoozy loose.

Dave Rywall on November 4, 2009 at 8:06 AM , et al

Isn’t it a little early for all you trolls to be up. Palin showed that she has more courage and wisdom by endorsing Hoffman than the whole GOP establishment. They have been in DC way too long and have bought into the drive-by media’s mantra that Republicans cannot win without having a bigger tent. That is simply Bovine Scatalogy!

Sporty1946 on November 4, 2009 at 8:13 AM

Way to go, Palin. You made Snoozy loose.

Dave Rywall on November 4, 2009 at 8:06 AM

Pretty sure Snoozy made Snoozy lose.

loudmouth883 on November 4, 2009 at 8:08 AM
———-
Had he won Hotair would say he helped him win.
He lost. She must take some of the responsibility for her halo of duh.

Dave Rywall on November 4, 2009 at 8:13 AM

No, thanks to Sarah Palin, NY-23 is a Democratic district now.

Indeed… Sad commentary… Palin dug herself yet another hole. Maybe she should stop digging.

IntheNet on November 4, 2009 at 8:14 AM

My thanks for Joe Biden for putting Owens over the top and sending that yellow-toothed carpetbagger back to the district in which he lives. D+1!

simplesimon on November 4, 2009 at 8:14 AM

No, thanks to Sarah Palin, NY-23 is a Democratic district now…
Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

Which, in the absence of Hoffman, it was going to be anyway. Do you simply refuse to acknowledge that, or are youy simply as obtuse as McCain?

Doorgunner on November 4, 2009 at 8:15 AM

Isn’t it a little early for all you trolls to be up. Palin showed that she has more courage and wisdom by endorsing Hoffman than the whole GOP establishment. They have been in DC way too long and have bought into the drive-by media’s mantra that Republicans cannot win without having a bigger tent. That is simply Bovine Scatalogy!

Sporty1946 on November 4, 2009 at 8:13 AM
——
Awesome rationalization.
Again, had he won, you would have given her all kinds of credit, that she is a PLAYAH and a force to be reckoned with. He loses, and you refuse to acknowledge that her support may have hurt his chances. So typical.

Dave Rywall on November 4, 2009 at 8:15 AM

I can’t see how some of you are saying Sarah lost the election for Doug. In order to say that he would of had to of been ahead before she came along and he was last. Now he go about 44% for only campaigning for a week I think he did a great job. He’s never been in politics before so he didn’t do all that bad. I’m just glad Scuzzy and her union husband didn’t get in. We all know what kind of favors his union would get.

Brat4life on November 4, 2009 at 8:15 AM

Personally, I don’t feel like ‘we’ lost anything, certainly not principal and I can live with that. I’ll never vote for the ‘less’ of the two evils, EVER AGAIN!!! Got that Gingrich and McCain?!?!

DanaSmiles on November 4, 2009 at 8:15 AM

Having related why Hoffman lost let me give my opinion on the good things that came out of or learned from this episode:

1)”Grassroots” conservatives now have their sea legs; by being in engaged in an actual race it provided them needed experience that will serve them well as we approach the 2010 midterms.

2)Sarah Palin, whatever you say about her, is a woman of principle. If you reject her, it is not because she is wishy-washy. If you embrace her and become a Palin supporter you know that she will not vacillate or pander. That definitely is re-assuring when so many politicians take the expedient way out.

3)RINO’s in contrast have been exposed by Dede. Rush is right that she screwed the RINO’s. I just wish he hadn’t used the word “bestiality”.

4)Hoffman is a decent candidate but if district 23 can field someone who is conservative, male or female, with a bit more charisma next time, I think it should consider going that route. If not, then it should stick with Hoffman.

5)Sarah Palin is a superstar. Nobody but a superstar could have turned around the fortunes of a 3rd party candidate and added 25 percentage point to his poll total in a matter of two weeks.

6)The ground or end game is vital; all the publicity, fanfare, and hoopla surrounding the campaign means squat if you can’t deliver the votes

7)Conservative talk radio hosts has a vital and pivotal role to play in arousing public sentiment which they do very well, but when it comes to leveraging their “power” to get somebody elected then it is not as effective.

8)No election or exit polls can be assumed always to be correct. In District 23 many voters were undecided going in (Siena poll). Unfortunately marginal or apolitical voters decide elections and not political junkies

9)The civil war that the MSM will promote in the GOP will not be intense as it makes it out to be (many districts will nominate conservatives to run in 2010 or stay with their incumbent conservative GOP rep or Senator)but will nevertheless be present in several districts. What the MSM will promote as division should be promoted by the GOP as SOP and not something extraordinary

10)Money doesn’t always decide elections but the absence of money at the beginning of a campaign does not allow your message to get into the public consciousness at the outset of the campaign and establish a comfort level with the voter. Yes Hoffman had money at the end but I would question whether many voters may not have been comfortable with him as they would have been if he had been the GOP candidate from the get-go.

technopeasant on November 4, 2009 at 8:16 AM

We, the Conservatives, clipped the RINO.

We should, and will, do that clipping thinger as often as needed.

Republicans learned valuable lesson(s):

Don’t close the tent to Conservatives, and

Don’t open the door for RINOs.

Scozzafava can now disappear into complete limbo, and never trouble us again.

Serr8d on November 4, 2009 at 8:16 AM

He loses, and you refuse to acknowledge that her support may have hurt his chances. So typical.

Dave Rywall on November 4, 2009 at 8:15 AM

He was polling in third place in a three-person race and came in second following the endorsement. Judging by the sequence of events, her support helped him.

venividivici on November 4, 2009 at 8:17 AM

maverick muse on November 4, 2009 at 8:06 AM

Maybe I caught him on three bad occasions. Each time he struck me as a, well, an accountant. That isn’t a bad thing for those who only care about message. It is only a statement about the folks who place value on image. Combine that with the two other issues, and I think you can point to that as the reason he lost. Again, it isn’t a bad thing because we can educate people on the value of ignoring image in favor of a substantive message. And the failure of our celebrity Precedent is helping make that case for us.

csdeven on November 4, 2009 at 8:17 AM

It doesn’t mean much, but the danger here is, if Sarah Palin is willing to throw the GOP under the bus and then keep getting Democrats elected, is anyone going to want her endorsement in any state where it might actually matter?

Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

Am I supposed to debate your imagination here? I’m sorry, I still don’t know what you’re yapping about. You say a candidate she endorsed will win in 2010, but no one will want her endorsement? Are you talking in code?

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:17 AM

This speaks to the motivation of conservatives. Hoffman as a candidate SUCKED! A sack of conservative potatoes would have gotten as many votes. There will be tons of GOOD conservative candidates in 2010. I’m feeling great this morning!

marklmail on November 4, 2009 at 8:17 AM

Proud Rino

That’s an oxymoron like jumbo shrimp.

Conservative Victory – another oxymoron.

simplesimon on November 4, 2009 at 8:18 AM

Oh well – we got NJ which was huge and a bigger impact.

The Democrats will wet themselves over this and miss the message that VA/NJ voters sent.

I feel very good about our chances in 2010

gophergirl on November 4, 2009 at 8:18 AM

Ru

sh is right that she screwed the RINO’s. I just wish he hadn’t used the word “bestiality”.

What? That was epic… I laughed my ass off.

Amadeus on November 4, 2009 at 8:18 AM

Again, had he won, you would have given her all kinds of credit, that she is a PLAYAH and a force to be reckoned with. He loses, and you refuse to acknowledge that her support may have hurt his chances. So typical.
Dave Rywall on November 4, 2009 at 8:15 AM

Mmm hmmm, and if Hoffman had you would be here saying that Palin didn’t have an effect, that she was a sideshow or something because she’s a “stupid Caribou Barbie with her halo of duh.”

Man, it’s like you don’t understand politics.

Bishop on November 4, 2009 at 8:18 AM

He loses, and you refuse to acknowledge that her support may have hurt his chances. So typical.

Dave Rywall on November 4, 2009 at 8:15 AM

The guy had no money and no support until she mentioned his name. How much crack do you have to smoke to think she hurt his chances?

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:18 AM

Grow Fins, Simple Simon, and Rave Drywall. Excellent.

So Proud Rino, that makes you the one kneeling in the middle… ‘cuz that’s how a RINO defines a ‘win.’

Doorgunner on November 4, 2009 at 8:19 AM

Conservative Victory – another oxymoron.
simplesimon on November 4, 2009 at 8:18 AM

Right on time.

Cops chased you away from the elementary school again, huh? You poor thing.

Bishop on November 4, 2009 at 8:20 AM

battle of the dimwits – biden 3, palin 0.

sesquipedalian on November 4, 2009 at 8:20 AM

Is “The Rod” paying you Trolls extra for being up so early?
Mata Hari Scozzafava deserves all the credit for Hoffman’s loss.

kingsjester on November 4, 2009 at 8:22 AM

No, thanks to Sarah Palin, NY-23 is a Democratic district now.

Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

No, Mr. DIM. The idiot RINOs that voted for Scuzzy, even though she had withdrawn from the race, can be credited with allowing the DEM to win.

Sporty1946 on November 4, 2009 at 8:22 AM

Proud RINO–that’s equivalent Proud Moderate, or Proud Coward. Hardly inspiring.

Tonight, we cracked the foundation of the ivory tower in which statists and their RINO lapdogs dwell. You know this.

Or you’re stupid.

pugwriter on November 4, 2009 at 8:22 AM

All we need now is crr6 and the infestation will be complete.

I’m going to miss you guys on the threads which will discuss the new governors of NJ and Virginia; curious that you will fail to show up.

Bishop on November 4, 2009 at 8:23 AM

NY23 is a huge House seat.
maverick muse on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

Whoa really? Does that vote count more than other votes?

Size & population make standing powerful demands for financial appropriations to be met by the House. Further, don’t ignore appointments given the NY23 Congressional Member.

No reason to think FOR you; you never developed any sensibilities.

maverick muse on November 4, 2009 at 8:23 AM

pugwriter on November 4, 2009 at 8:22 AM

Err…last night.

pugwriter on November 4, 2009 at 8:24 AM

While Hoffman winning would have been great the takeaway last night was better.
Blue Dogs saw the fiasco in Virginia, a big liberal losing in NJ (huge upset) and a Democrat (Owens) barely winning with help, using the 2006 strategy of acting like a moderate.
For the Blue Dogs and Red state senators, they peered into their 2010 political graves if they continue to support Obama on any big socialist issues.

jjshaka on November 4, 2009 at 8:24 AM

pugwriter on November 4, 2009 at 8:22 AM

I am going with the latter!

Sporty1946 on November 4, 2009 at 8:24 AM

Way to go, Palin. You made Snoozy loose.

Dave Rywall on November 4, 2009 at 8:06 AM , et al

Isn’t it a little early for all you trolls to be up. Palin showed that she has more courage and wisdom by endorsing Hoffman than the whole GOP establishment. They have been in DC way too long and have bought into the drive-by media’s mantra that Republicans cannot win without having a bigger tent. That is simply Bovine Scatalogy!

Sporty1946 on November 4, 2009 at 8:13 AM

Palin, driven by her desperate need to see her name in the paper and a calculation that if she ran to the front of a parade that was already underway, made the calculation that she could present herself as a game-changer and the conscience of the conservative movement.

She miscalculated.

She, (and Beck and Rush) made the race about themselves and when Hoffman lost, they, and their egos lost.

If only she’d endorsed Christie….

The guy had no money and no support until she mentioned his name. How much crack do you have to smoke to think she hurt his chances?

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:18 AM

Actually, Hoffman was making significant gains before the Palin endorsement.

Bleeds Blue on November 4, 2009 at 8:25 AM

No, thanks to Sarah Palin, NY-23 is a Democratic district now.

Bwahahahaaaa!!! Ms. Scozzafava can now join her husband in the principled quest to deprive us pesky workers of the right to vote against unionization in secret.

It doesn’t mean much, but the danger here is, if Sarah Palin is willing to throw the GOP under the bus and then keep getting Democrats elected, is anyone going to want her endorsement in any state where it might actually matter?

Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 8:12 AM

Well, they sure won’t want to be crossing her now, will they? They’ll have to take her endorsement whether they like it or not — what are they going to do, protest? Look what she can do! You said so yourself…

RD on November 4, 2009 at 8:25 AM

Top story: Christie wins NJ. Corzine and Obama lose big time. Nice one-year anniversary present to Obama!

Serr8d on November 4, 2009 at 8:26 AM

Sarah Palin is a Fiscal Conservative and Social Independent.
She gets top billing now and in the future.

Amadeus on November 4, 2009 at 8:26 AM

Palin’s words of wisdom on this one….
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=166603523434&ref=mf

njpat on November 4, 2009 at 8:26 AM

Her is what RINO means – I want to run for office in a Republican district but I’m really a Democrat, only not as much of a leftist as the Dem that is already running.

Sporty1946 on November 4, 2009 at 8:27 AM

I hope this Conservative Party against Republican Party bickering doesn’t distract in 2010 or the GOP will be doomed – perhaps some of this infighting should be done in backroom and not in public or else GOP will have real problems in 2010 and 2012… I mean… as a Republican I see Newt Gingrich as an ally and Sarah Palin as an ally… It seems that some of you are playing them against each other…

NY-23 was a disaster for the GOP; let’s do better next time but unity is something we need; division among ourselves in the GOP (Conservatives/Republicans) will only hurt our changes going forward!

IntheNet on November 4, 2009 at 8:27 AM

I’m going to miss you guys on the threads which will discuss the new governors of NJ and Virginia; curious that you will fail to show up.

Bishop on November 4, 2009 at 8:23 AM

here’s a teaser: in low-turnout elections, lousy governor of lousy state is defeated by moderate republican; terrible demo candidate in VA loses by margin he deserves; palin, beck further reduce gop presence in congress, add vote for health reform.

sesquipedalian on November 4, 2009 at 8:27 AM

I have a feeling the people in NY23 were going to vote for the liberal anyway, just glad it wasn’t the Republic one!! They deserve all they get too.

DanaSmiles on November 4, 2009 at 8:27 AM

claiming Palin made Hoffman lose is retarded argument, desperation from the Left.

jp on November 4, 2009 at 8:28 AM

Top story: Christie wins NJ. Corzine and Obama lose big time. Nice one-year anniversary present to Obama!

Serr8d on November 4, 2009 at 8:26 AM

Excellent ‘conservative’ spin. I hear the PUMAs are going to turn the tide!

simplesimon on November 4, 2009 at 8:29 AM

WOW! Almost all the trolls are up this morning. Please go back to sleep. Your inanity is really hard to deal with before noon.

Sporty1946 on November 4, 2009 at 8:30 AM

simplesimon on November 4, 2009 at 8:29 AM

Hey, Skippy! There was a b-a-a-a-a-a-d rumor going around about ‘ewe’ last night. Mom got your Eggo ready yet or is it Frankenberry this morning?

kingsjester on November 4, 2009 at 8:32 AM

claiming Palin made Hoffman lose is retarded argument, desperation from the Left.

jp on November 4, 2009 at 8:28 AM

The ‘Donna Corleone’ argument: Palin has the power to break your career, if you break her heart!

RD on November 4, 2009 at 8:32 AM

here’s a teaser: in low-turnout elections, lousy governor of lousy state is defeated by moderate republican; terrible demo candidate in VA loses by margin he deserves; palin, beck further reduce gop presence in congress, add vote for health reform.
sesquipedalian on November 4, 2009 at 8:27 AM

Here’s another teaser: President Ogabe welcomes the new GOP governors and looks forward to the implications for the 2010 elections.

Meanwhile the Oval Office cleaning staff is having trouble keeping up with the overflowing ashtrays.

Bishop on November 4, 2009 at 8:32 AM

AND… New York voters take back the baton from Minnesota voters in the dumbest voters in America race.

Smart choices from two states, apparently after realizing what idiots they were for voting for Obama. When will New York learn?

jamarkennedy on November 4, 2009 at 8:33 AM

Size & population make standing powerful demands for financial appropriations to be met by the House. Further, don’t ignore appointments given the NY23 Congressional Member.

maverick muse on November 4, 2009 at 8:23 AM

Actually Congressional districts are generally set up to be about the same size population-wise, so how is NY-23 a HUGE House seat again?

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:33 AM

Actually, Hoffman was making significant gains before the Palin endorsement.

Bleeds Blue on November 4, 2009 at 8:25 AM

Your link shows one snapshot of polling. How does that equate to a trend? A trend implies a “before and after” view of data through time.

Plus, Hoffman’s “No Opinion” was the highest of any of the three candidates, which typically leads to no votes (who’s going to pull the lever for someone about whom they have no opinion?).

I take it you don’t interpret data for a living.

venividivici on November 4, 2009 at 8:34 AM

In my experience, the spiral will increase in breadth and intensity. Have fun poking the monkey!

sulla on November 3, 2009 at 9:55 PM

I have a very sharp stick! lol

csdeven on November 4, 2009 at 8:34 AM

The loss of NY23 is, indeed, “The Big One” as Allah puts it. Its a huge defeat for Palin (whom I support) and Movement Conservatives. This loss demonstrates the fact that we Movement Conservatives remain off target. Out of phase. Why? Because we never stopped to adequately analyze what went wrong on 11/7/06 and 11/4/08. We left it up to talk radio and the blog pundits and they’ve been WRONG! Darvin Dowdy

Darvin Dowdy on November 4, 2009 at 8:34 AM

Actually, Hoffman was making significant gains before the Palin endorsement.

Bleeds Blue on November 4, 2009 at 8:25 AM

No he wasn’t.

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:36 AM

simplesimon on November 4, 2009 at 8:18 AM

After about a month of your soon to be court ordered psychiatric care, your eyes will be opened to the image you have here. You are under the erroneous belief that people care what you think because they respond to you. You are simply a way to practice ones skills at degrading sick f**ks like yourself.

csdeven on November 4, 2009 at 8:37 AM

I’m sorry but I never thought Hoffman was going to win this thing. It was a long shot at best and lets face it the GOP screwed up. Hoffman didn’t screw up, Palin didn’t screw up, the voters didn’t screw up(well some did), but it was the leadership trying to pick and endorse a candidate the people didn’t want. The GOP tried to shove down the people’s throats what they thought would be a moderate candidate and the people turned around and shoved her down the GOP’s throats. I think the outcome didn’t matter so much in this one, but the race to get there spoke volumes.

sammypants on November 4, 2009 at 8:39 AM

The loss of NY23 is, indeed, “The Big One” as Allah puts it. Its a huge defeat for Palin (whom I support) and Movement Conservatives. This loss demonstrates the fact that we Movement Conservatives remain off target. Out of phase. Why? Because we never stopped to adequately analyze what went wrong on 11/7/06 and 11/4/08. We left it up to talk radio and the blog pundits and they’ve been WRONG! Darvin Dowdy

Darvin Dowdy on November 4, 2009 at 8:34 AM

Here come the concern trolls.

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:39 AM

The loss of NY23 is, indeed, “The Big One” as Allah puts it.
yada yada yada…

Darvin Dowdy on November 4, 2009 at 8:34 AM

Which “Allah” is that, sport? The same one who wrote this?

(4) the win in New Jersey, where The One staked his own political capital in campaigning for Corzine, was huge compared to the loss here; and (5) as I said over the weekend, the actual result of this race is unimportant. The point in torpedoing Scozzafava and swinging the GOP behind Hoffman was to send a message to the Republican leadership that only fiscal conservatives will be tolerated henceforth, and that message has been sent even with Owens winning a squeaker. The loss is disappointing but it’s a detail on an otherwise great night.

RD on November 4, 2009 at 8:40 AM

Because we never stopped to adequately analyze what went wrong on 11/7/06 and 11/4/08. We left it up to talk radio and the blog pundits and they’ve been WRONG! Darvin Dowdy

Darvin Dowdy on November 4, 2009 at 8:34 AM

This comment is pretty abstract. Care to put some meat on those bones or are you just going to say they were “wrong” and leave it at that?

Hoffman probably did better than Lamont did in his race against Lieberman and I don’t recall the Left doing anything but doubling down. If one swallow doesn’t make a spring, one loss doesn’t repudiate a political movement.

venividivici on November 4, 2009 at 8:41 AM

Palin Hannity cost Hoffman.

Hear me out. I’m not a fan of his but I respect his point of view. But the interview he had with Hoffman on Monday backfired IMO. Let’s just look at the visual. Here you have Hoffman, sort of slumped in the middle between the Thompsons. And as much as I love the Thompsons, they are polished politicians sitting upright. Hannity was throwing more questions to them than the candidate. My wife knows nothing about politics but she was watching this and said “It looks to me like the guy in the middle is a puppet and the man and woman are pulling his strings.

Now principles matter to me more than anything, but that interview did set me back just in terms of the visual. For Palin-haters, sorry but she galvanized Hoffman’s campaign just as she did McCain’s. But Hoffman’s lack of local issues seems to have done him in.

McDonnell did it right. He took the national issue and localized it to the state. Hoffman allowed the tea party revolt to explode nationally, but exposed his lack of local issues, and in turn lost.

JVelez on November 4, 2009 at 8:41 AM

Palin’s words of wisdom on this one….
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=166603523434&ref=mf

njpat on November 4, 2009 at 8:26 AM

Very good.

Palin congratulates Governors in NJ and VA, and makes a point to note Kim Guadagno is the first woman Lt. Gov. in NJ. She confronts the issue with Hoffman, quotes Reagan in 1976 and “the cause goes on.” Very good.

I don’t want to see her get too bogged down in identity politics, but she makes a point of highlighting women’s accomplishments. If she can make a swing in the female vote where more vote for the GOP in 2010 and 2012 than previously, that will be a huge shift. Ripping the mask off the “feminist” movement is just the way to do that, IMO, but it sure stirs up the hornet’s nest.

cs89 on November 4, 2009 at 8:42 AM

If it was a close race other whereas it wouldnt have been a close loss for Hoffman without Palin intervention, well that says something for Palin.

johnnyU on November 4, 2009 at 8:43 AM

add vote for health reform.

sesquipedalian on November 4, 2009 at 8:27 AM

Do you have a link for that? Owens was to the right of Scozzafava, to the point that kos actually endorsed the latter (no matter how badly he wants people to forget that).

I can’t picture Owens rubber stamping anything for Pelosi, given the election battle he’s going to face next year.

BadgerHawk on November 4, 2009 at 8:43 AM

After about a month of your soon to be court ordered psychiatric care, your eyes will be opened to the image you have here. You are under the erroneous belief that people care what you think because they respond to you. You are simply a way to practice ones skills at degrading sick f**ks like yourself.

csdeven on November 4, 2009 at 8:37 AM

My image of the trolls is that they are like those primitive people anthropologists would bring from the rainforest to the big city to be displayed in the early 20th century. Of course people are going to gawk, but it doesn’t mean the troll/rainforest man has anything of substance to say.

venividivici on November 4, 2009 at 8:44 AM

JVelez on November 4, 2009 at 8:41 AM

The explanation is certainly reasonable, but how on earth do you come to the conclusion that it’s Hannity’s fault?

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:44 AM

Oh, and I’m glad Hoffman ran… but could we get a candidate with his principles, but a little more charisma, next year?

cs89 on November 4, 2009 at 8:45 AM

Darvin Dowdy on November 4, 2009 at 8:34 AM

Respectfully, the reason the GOP is where it is at today is because of the attitude you just exhibited with that comment.

How can taking an unknown 3rd party candidate from no support to a near win a failure? It is only a failure if you believe the medias meme. It is only a failure if you believe as King George did when the founding fathers didn’t meet an occasional expectation. It is only a failure if you thought Ronald Reagan was finished after the 1976 primaries.

No, the GOP fails because it has no courage. Yesterday we saw much courage from a candidate and thousands who supported him in spite of his lack of acceptable “beltway” image. This isn’t over. The message will be refined and the next typical American, with all his/her flaws in image, will cruise to victory borne on the wings of solid conservative principles!

csdeven on November 4, 2009 at 8:45 AM

The loss of NY23 is, indeed, “The Big One” as Allah puts it. Its a huge defeat for Palin (whom I support) and Movement Conservatives. This loss demonstrates the fact that we Movement Conservatives remain off target. Out of phase. Why? Because we never stopped to adequately analyze what went wrong on 11/7/06 and 11/4/08. We left it up to talk radio and the blog pundits and they’ve been WRONG! Darvin Dowdy

Darvin Dowdy on November 4, 2009 at 8:34 AM

You wish. Getting a incumbent Rino in would have been a defeat. What made Dede republican?

the_nile on November 4, 2009 at 8:45 AM

Let me reiterate – The idiot RINOs that voted for Scuzzy, even though she had withdrawn from the race, can be credited with allowing the DEM to win.
Hoffman is a Republican. He only ran on the Conservative ticket when the local yocals decided to pick someone more liberal than the Dem. Owens. Hoffman knew about Scuzzy and decided to take a stand. RINOs are the problem and they need to be defunded because they are doing as much damage to the country as the Dems are.

Sporty1946 on November 4, 2009 at 8:45 AM

Let me reiterate – The idiot RINOs that voted for Scuzzy, even though she had withdrawn from the race, can be credited with allowing the DEM to win.

I agree – those people shouldn’t have been allowed to vote for the person they wanted to win.

Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 8:46 AM

Gotta say it! Hoffman comes off very poorly speaking on TV. I forget which show I saw him on briefly last night but was not impressed with his public personna even though his political philosophy is much the same as mine. He just did not inspire confidence even with me who was ready to give him the benefit of the doubt. I’m betting that’s why he lost and nothing to do with Dede or the larger tent or any of that stuff. He just makes a poor public impression I think.

jeanie on November 4, 2009 at 8:47 AM

Hoffman lost because he couldn’t answer questions about local issues. His campaign was more important to people who live outside of NY-23 than those who lived inside it.

Tom_Shipley on November 4, 2009 at 8:48 AM

I am on my am coffee thing, getting kids ready for school. Interesting how RINOs have turned out in droves to either be sour grapes and attack Sarah, are all wee weed up that Scozzawhatevertraitorsheis lost, and don’t mind that much that she switched left to the left of the left.

Not to mention the lizard people that are cheering up on ONE race. Stupid is as stupid does. Goes to show you…Halloween was not only celebrated on the 31st. The masquerade and hypocrisy of one candidate that ran on the GOP’s coattails are defended by Demorats.

Did I get that right?

Gee, hmmm, the fact that Sarah spotted a diamond in the rough with all the values that a party WAS FOUNDED ON and he had it-means the world for us that she was the whistleblower-to go back towards the principles the GOP WAS FOUNDED ON. RINOs, otoh, have to ride under the GOP in order to win because they were either afraid of being cast as liberals on these elections or they feel that because they carry a gun that makes them CONSERVATIVES.

Well it’s a bit more complicated than that. RINOs, in order to be attacking or hiding under the Democrat tent (because the storm was tough last night!) are acting like sourgrapes and attacking the Republicans. Why? RINOs do not believe in the principles of the GOP. This is no carnival, people-a minority cannot override a whole party. That is why there was an awakening, which was already known by a credible poll. Conservatives, afterall, state themselves as such for a bit more than 60%.

And then RINO’s wanna run the GOP. Or be a part of the GOP.
RINOs must gather together in San Francisco (or Arizona where John McCain will embrace you). As a suggestion, how about a colorful parade and select for starters a Founding Father and a Founding Father; A Founding Mother and a Founding Mother? Or a Founding Father and Mother that was never meant to be, but can run the party from a jar. Right?

You RINOs can try and diss us either Republicans, Conservatives or Independents. At least, we know where we stand on issues. Boy I never believed in my life I would ever write something like this. Don’t waste Ed’s and Allah’s space here and STFU.

Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness = Don’t mind if I destroy your existence, believe in Big Government running our lives PLUS take over a party, and Democrats and RINOs are always miserable and cannot get over themselves. Selfish instead of selfless. That is the masquerade and costume of community organizing.

Now go ahead and answer me-I will be very happy to school any of you that have not seen sunlight yet; it’s morning and it is time you all go back to your batcaves and do whatever is that RINOs do.

-PPF

ProudPalinFan on November 4, 2009 at 8:48 AM

claiming Palin made Hoffman lose is retarded argument, desperation from the Left.

jp on November 4, 2009 at 8:28 AM

And if only conservatives weren’t illiterate, they wouldn’t look so retarded. Palin didn’t cause Hoffman to lose, but she gave the seat to a Democrat. From a woman who may be hoping to be a Republican president, it was a boneheaded move. Palin is a dimwit.

Norman Blizter on November 4, 2009 at 8:49 AM

Palin Hannity the National Republican Party cost Hoffman. But Hannity didn’t help.

Hear me out. I’m not a fan of his but I respect his point of view. But the interview he had with Hoffman on Monday backfired IMO. Let’s just look at the visual. Here you have Hoffman, sort of slumped in the middle between the Thompsons. And as much as I love the Thompsons, they are polished politicians sitting upright. Hannity was throwing more questions to them than the candidate. My wife knows nothing about politics but she was watching this and said “It looks to me like the guy in the middle is a puppet and the man and woman are pulling his strings.

JVelez on November 4, 2009 at 8:41 AM

Don’t know if the interview backfired, but everything you point out is correct and it was notably unhelpful for Hoffman’s chances. I’d just as soon have not seen him at all on a FOX talk show in those 2 days before the election.

And to me the Thompsons came off just as badly, not because they didn’t look strong (they did) but because of their own utter “tone-deafness” to what they were causing. To be that clueless about the message you’re sending you have to have something wrong with your own judgment (so the thought goes…).

To me it also seemed more like the Thompsons were cashing in on the Hoffman opportunity, and not the other way around. Which made Hannity’s constant questions to the Thompsons even more crass IMHO.

RD on November 4, 2009 at 8:50 AM

While Hoffman winning would have been great the takeaway last night was better.
Blue Dogs saw the fiasco in Virginia, a big liberal losing in NJ (huge upset) and a Democrat (Owens) barely winning with help, using the 2006 strategy of acting like a moderate.
For the Blue Dogs and Red state senators, they peered into their 2010 political graves if they continue to support Obama on any big socialist issues.

jjshaka on November 4, 2009 at 8:24 AM

This self-laudatory tone is absolutely insipid. The Virginia and NJ results were not surprising at all: http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2009/Senate/Maps/Nov04-s.html#1

Zero surprise.

A Axe on November 4, 2009 at 8:51 AM

Proud Dem – I never said they shouldn’t be allowed to vote for who they wanted. Grow up and listen. I said she had WITHDRAWN and they voted for her anyway. They cost Hoffman the election by voting for someone NO LONGER in the race. That’s like betting on the Red Sox to win the World Series after they were eliminated.

Sporty1946 on November 4, 2009 at 8:52 AM

A win for the GOP.

Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 7:51 AM

So you can’t name a single issue, in which YOUR so-called Republican stood out over Owens?

One has to ask, why are you here? You already have candidates that stand for, and run for what you believe. Are you just concerned with the stigma that’s attached to calling oneself a Democrat? The stigma of attaching yourself to a group, that your own President thinks are too stupid to vote for anything other than the “D” or “R” after their name. Sounds like it.

Or do you just think of Republicans as the “cool” people, and you so want to stand with the “cool” people, even though you’ve never fit in? Maybe you’re just the California type voter, @#$%ing up your own state so much, you move to Oregon, just to start @#$%ing that state up.

Are are you just trying to buttress yourself up with your nick, actually not being very proud of anything you believe in?

MNHawk on November 4, 2009 at 8:52 AM

I agree – those people shouldn’t have been allowed to vote for the person they wanted to win.

Proud Rino on November 4, 2009 at 8:46 AM

On the one hand, you are trying to slap down people looking at Hoffman’s near-victory as a “moral victory”, yet, supporting Scozzafava when she had no hope of winning is exactly the kind of thing someone looking for a “moral victory” does and you’ve got no problem with that.

Interesting double standard.

venividivici on November 4, 2009 at 8:53 AM

Hoffman lost because he couldn’t answer questions about local issues. His campaign was more important to people who live outside of NY-23 than those who lived inside it.

Tom_Shipley on November 4, 2009 at 8:48 AM

That’s actually a pretty good point. Score 1 for the trolls. Actually, that might be your team’s first point.

BadgerHawk on November 4, 2009 at 8:53 AM

And if only conservatives weren’t illiterate, they wouldn’t look so retarded. Palin didn’t cause Hoffman to lose, but she gave the seat to a Democrat. From a woman who may be hoping to be a Republican president, it was a boneheaded move. Palin is a dimwit.

Norman Blizter on November 4, 2009 at 8:49 AM

Can you back this up? Were the some polls that asked voters about Palin, or are you just pulling the voter’s thoughts out of your ass?

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:53 AM

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:44 AM

2 reasons.

1. I hate dislike him.
2. More importantly, I think that Hannity made it more about the “tea party movement” than the people of NY-23. Hoffman seems to have lacked in knowing the local issues. And like I said, the visual of that interview sort of set me back.

JVelez on November 4, 2009 at 8:53 AM

Why? Because we never stopped to adequately analyze what went wrong on 11/7/06 and 11/4/08.

Bull. The party elites did some analyzing and figured that they needed to nominate McCain’s and Scozza’s to win, meanwhile the conservative voters were holding their noses and taking it.

The taking it part is almost over, along with Steele and Newt. If the GOP parades out another set of milksops in 2010 or 2012, there will be riots.

Bishop on November 4, 2009 at 8:53 AM

NY23 is a victory for fiscal conservatives. The message has been sent loud and clear; in 2010 and 2012 any big spending/big government Republicans will be radioactive.

bitsy on November 4, 2009 at 8:55 AM

And if only conservatives weren’t illiterate, they wouldn’t look so retarded. Palin didn’t cause Hoffman to lose, but she gave the seat to a Democrat. From a woman who may be hoping to be a Republican president, it was a boneheaded move. Palin is a dimwit.

Norman Blizter on November 4, 2009 at 8:49 AM

A Democrat who didn’t even get Kos’ endorsement, which went to Scozzafava (before the whole Hoffman thing blew up) because she was the more objectively “progressive” candidate.

venividivici on November 4, 2009 at 8:55 AM

JVelez on November 4, 2009 at 8:53 AM

Oh, ok. I thought you were serious. Sorry you feel that way about Hannity. I’m sure many things are his fault in your mind.

Ronnie on November 4, 2009 at 8:55 AM

The spin is laughable.

Dede is done.

She will not be able to backstab us in Congress.

She is a total fraud.

WIN. Period.

Saltysam on November 4, 2009 at 8:56 AM

RD on November 4, 2009 at 8:50 AM

Agreed, I just like to bag on him……..

JVelez on November 4, 2009 at 8:58 AM

she gave the seat to a Democrat…
Norman Blizter on November 4, 2009 at 8:49 AM

A regular Donna Corleone, maker and breaker of hopes and dreams. Thanks for the affirmation, pal.

RD on November 4, 2009 at 8:59 AM

simplesimon on November 4, 2009 at 8:29 AM

Normally I don’t waste my time with trolls but THe Winner IS: Christie, Christie, Christie Rah! Rah! Rah! Did you hear me say Christie! Christie! Christie! Let me repeat it if you didn’t hear. And in indigo NJ where Obama showed up no less than 5!!!!! times. Dem score: 1 out of three and in a district in upstate NY and only until the 2010 election cycle when Owens will be sent packing. Now there’s the truth of the matter like it or not.

jeanie on November 4, 2009 at 8:59 AM

A couple points to keep in perspective:

-A Scozzafava win was the worst scenario. She would have been to the left of Owens and likely served as a ‘bi-partisan’ shield for Pelosi in the House. She also would have been running as an incumbent next year, with full GOP backing (to the tune of another million bucks).

-The primary goal of the Hoffman campaign, and grassroots support, was to keep Scozzafava from winning. People are only disappointed tonight because his campaign got further than anyone initially thought it would.

-Hoffman will likely pick the seat up next year running on the (R) ticket. In retrospect, the Christie win is the bigger story tonight.

BadgerHawk on November 3, 2009 at 11:15 PM

———————————————————-

Add on top of that the fact that Owens is moderate enough the kos endorsed Scozzafava. It’s highly unlikely he’ll serve as a rubber stamp for Pelosi, especially given the election battle he’s looking at just a year from now.

Hoffman = Dream
Scozzafava = Nightmare
Owens = Meh

BadgerHawk on November 4, 2009 at 8:18 AM

BadgerHawk on November 4, 2009 at 9:00 AM

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