Golden State a flop
posted at 2:00 pm on November 2, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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William Voegeli wrote yesterday about the collapse of California’s political class, and the end of the competition between the Golden State model of expansive benefits and taxes and red-state models of low taxes and spending. Voegeli concludes that the high-spending model isn’t worth the expense, and that he’s not the only one who has drawn that conclusion. Migration patterns show that Americans have voted with their feet in this competition between political models, and for good reason:
California and Texas are not perfect representatives of the alternative deals, but they come close. Overall, the Census Bureau’s latest data show that state and local government expenditures for all purposes in 2005-06 were 46.8% higher in California than in Texas: $10,070 per person compared with $6,858. Only three states and the District of Columbia saw higher per capita government outlays than California, while those expenditures in Texas were lower than in all but seven states. California ranked 10th in overall taxes levied by state and local governments, on a per capita basis, while Texas, one of only seven states with no individual income tax, was 38th.
One way to assess how Americans feel about the different tax and benefit packages the states offer is by examining internal U.S. migration patterns. Between April 1, 2000, and June 30, 2007, an average of 3,247 more people moved out of California than into it every week, according to the Census Bureau. Over the same period, Texas had a net weekly population increase of 1,544 as a result of people moving in from other states. During these years, more generally, 16 of the 17 states with the lowest tax levels had positive “net internal migration,” in the Census Bureau’s language, while 14 of the 17 states with the highest taxes had negative net internal migration.
These folks pulling up stakes and driving U-Haul trucks across state lines understand a reality the defenders of the high-benefit/high-tax model must confront: All things being equal, everyone would rather pay low taxes than high ones. The high-benefit/high-tax model can work only if things are demonstrably not equal — if the public goods purchased by the high taxes far surpass the quality, quantity and impact of those available to people who live in states with low taxes.
Today’s public benefits fail that test, as urban scholar Joel Kotkin of NewGeography.com and Chapman University told the Los Angeles Times in March: “Twenty years ago, you could go to Texas, where they had very low taxes, and you would see the difference between there and California. Today, you go to Texas, the roads are no worse, the public schools are not great but are better than or equal to ours, and their universities are good. The bargain between California’s government and the middle class is constantly being renegotiated to the disadvantage of the middle class.”
This only would seem counter-intuitive to people who have not lived in California. At one time, decades ago, the state had one of the nation’s best education systems, both in compulsory levels and at colleges and universities. It also had economic dynamism, thanks to a climate that attracted people from all over the country and bountiful natural resources. Public benefits were nowhere near as extensive as they are now, and they were aimed at the public rather than special interests.
All of that began to change in the 1960s and 1970s. As the state expanded the reach of these special interests in public affairs, government grew expansively — and expensively. Proposition 13, which progressives blame for the state of California’s government, grew 31 years ago into a nationwide tax-reform movement because California tried hiking property taxes unrealistically in order to pay for its nanny-state tendencies, even then. Instead of getting the message — a message diluted by Californians consistently voting for nanny-state political class, it should be pointed out — the state hiked every other fee and tax it could.
This started the migration of Californians to other states, but their new neighbors were not always thrilled to see them arrive. While decrying the heavy tax burden of their home state, they often agitated for similar nanny-state policies that they left behind, not connecting one with the other intellectually.
The failure of the California model shows that people can usually do for themselves better than a nanny state, mainly because people are motivated to look after their own interests, especially when they can keep their resources to themselves. Can California realize this and reform itself? Voegeli issues an Eisenhower-like warning about the “self-serving governmental-industrial complex,” which will resist the changes as long as possible. Until Californians experience complete collapse, it’s doubtful that they will take the drastic action of giving the boot to the entire current political class, which is what it will take to rescue the Golden State.
Note: Front-page image is our friend Steven Crowder; it’s just too perfect not to use for this story.
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lorien1973 on November 2, 2009 at 2:02 PM
I thought it was my ex-wife living there that sent everyone packing.
kingsjester on November 2, 2009 at 2:03 PM
But … but … but … the Republican and conservative haters never gave it a chance. All California needs is just a little more tax money to make things work and then they’ll get it right!
darwin on November 2, 2009 at 2:06 PM
I thought Ed was talking about the Warriors. They’re a terrible basketball team.
Doughboy on November 2, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Sigh…
Bob's Kid on November 2, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Morons at the state level, not just in California, but in Maryland, New Jersey, New York and other places run by liberal morons, forget to factor in human behavior every time they decide to raise taxes. These morons assume that when taxes increase, people won’t change their behavior, and they won’t leave the state. Example, Maryland added a surtax to taxpayers with incomes over $1 million. In 2007, 4,000 such people filed their taxes in Maryland. In 2007, 3,000 of these $1 million+ income earners filed. 1,000 left the state.
One thing about millionaires–they often own more than one house in more than one state. That makes it very easy to change domiciles on short notice.
BottomLine5 on November 2, 2009 at 2:07 PM
So it’s the Fool’s Golden State.
Orange Doorhinge on November 2, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Cali is a beautiful place…………..but, man, what a nut house!
JoeinTX on November 2, 2009 at 2:08 PM
I lived in SoCal in the early 70’s & then again later in the mid-late 70s.
Was OK then, but the nuts were still bountiful & multiplying (trick or treating in Carmichael in 1978 got me an apple with a razor blade in it).
Living in WA during the late 80’s & then again in the early 90s, I watched how the transplanted Califonians DECIMATED the state of WA.
What a frigging cesspool of entitlement that the Seattle area became.
UGH.
I moved from WA to WY bcs I couldn’t afford to live there anymore.
Rent went SKY high, along with everything else.
I see now in ND tons of people from OR & WA coming to live here.
All I can say is I am not budging this time: you libs need to stay where you are if you want to keep your nanny-state mentality.
Leave the rest of us the hell alone.
Badger40 on November 2, 2009 at 2:08 PM
I have so many stories of how bad the gov. is. So many businesses moved, so much manufacturing, the mere size of California makes it possible to succeed…but only by servicing the immediate community.
Any national company would be foolish to stay in California, their is no up-side, no advantage, nothing that allows you to compete with other states.
They will learn, but at a huge cost…
right2bright on November 2, 2009 at 2:08 PM
At one time it did not offer free education to every illegal immigrant. education is a right, after all.
Phoenician on November 2, 2009 at 2:09 PM
Now that was funny!
Knucklehead on November 2, 2009 at 2:09 PM
Evidently, they don’t play SimCity.
That game should be required for every legislator.
If they can’t win it on the hard setting, then they can’t be a candidate!
Badger40 on November 2, 2009 at 2:09 PM
Ever so right….
NC is being decimated by the liberals…they just think everyone owes them a living, owes them health care, owes them rent, owes them a job….gimme, gimme, gimme…
right2bright on November 2, 2009 at 2:10 PM
I’m a poster-child for American education.
I have attended schools all over the US.
The best education I can ever remember receiving was in Tyler TX, John Tyler HS.
But maybe it was just the ROTC program I remember there-3 years & 4 credits of ROTC made me a better person.
ROTC should be in all schools IMHO.
Badger40 on November 2, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Arnie Schwarzzie is just like Scozzafava.
TheAlamos on November 2, 2009 at 2:12 PM
NJ – California East
Mr. Bingley on November 2, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Scozzanegger?
Orange Doorhinge on November 2, 2009 at 2:13 PM
And it’s funny, bcs they leave bcs taxes & cost of living are so high bcs of their gimme mentality, & yet they recreate the same damned environment wherever they go.
Badger40 on November 2, 2009 at 2:13 PM
I don’t remember when that was…but the inclusion of the ESL, and other programs catering to illegals hurt the school district.
Allowing medical care for the illegals bankrupted many hospitals…and sanctuary cities of San Fransisco and L.A. (not formally like S.F., but basically the same) allowed the infrastructure to be over-run…at one time 46% of all drivers did not have auto insurance. Guess who paid for auto insurance when in an accident?
right2bright on November 2, 2009 at 2:13 PM
Aliens……plain and simple
SDarchitect on November 2, 2009 at 2:14 PM
I hate these stories.
All these refugees from high tax nanny-states are bringing their lefty ideas with them.
Why the heck do y’all think the Lone Star state is turning purple!
There are several constitutional amendments on tomorrow’s ballot that will make it easier for bureaucrats to raise Texas taxes!
cozmo on November 2, 2009 at 2:14 PM
We moved from California to Alabama at the end of ‘05. While Alabama is not as “forward moving” as California was, it reminds me of Sacramento about 15-20 years ago. It’s ok with me to make some concessions in services (I choose my own garbage company, drive my recycling to the recycling center, and read Ayn Rand while waiting at the DMV, we burn without permits or “burn days” and so on…), we like it here just fine. Our property taxes in Cali were around $1600 per year, here in AL they are under $500. We have seen a little less effect from the economic downturn here as well..people are out and about. If we were still in Cali, we would be hurting bad.. Here in AL all is well even if it moves along a little slower.
kringeesmom on November 2, 2009 at 2:15 PM
Evidently, they don’t play SimCity.
That game should be required for every legislator.
If they can’t win it on the hard setting, then they can’t be a candidate!
Badger40 on November 2, 2009 at 2:09 PM
Maybe it’s time for a marxist version of Sim City to hit the market so we can simulate what it will take cause a popular rebellion. That game would be for those who can’t see with their own eyes.
BottomLine5 on November 2, 2009 at 2:18 PM
My kids were playing that game 15 years ago. I was amazed at the level of interaction between the government and the population. The younger one just sold a house and pocketed $140k at 29 years old. His older brother is farther ahead. Heck, I signed a contract for my first house when I was 30. The next generation has some astute people coming in.
DanMan on November 2, 2009 at 2:20 PM
Badger40, early 70’s? When Earl roamed the halls and ruled on Friday nights?
DanMan on November 2, 2009 at 2:24 PM
I’m stuck here
but at least the weather is nice
pseudonominus on November 2, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Sorry, but I know folks who are thinking of moving elsewhere, and it isn’t because taxes are too high, or even (lately) purely due to jobs. In this recession, people earn less and are worth less, especially those who bought at the top of the housing bubble. If your two-income household paying for a million-dollar house suddenly becomes a one-income household paying for a half-million-dollar house with a mortgage closer to a million, abandoning the house and the area for one in which you can actually afford a home – say a bigger one for a quarter million – becomes tempting, if not necessary. The tax rate being 0% or 20% wouldn’t matter much in this case, since the dollar amounts we’re talking about are just so extreme.
Sure, taxes have some effect here, including indirect effects. But it’s the global recession and housing bubble (and, before that, the Internet bubble and the recession it triggered) that’s causing this exodus. When your housing and income situation means you’d barely scrape by (if that) in California but live like a king in, say, Texas, then Texas starts to look a lot more appealing than it once did.
Also, comparing dollar amounts California and Texas is similar to comparing dollar amounts in, say, the UK and Bangladesh. For a variety of reasons, costs and incomes are much greater in one than the other. The idea that this will be solved by chanting “cut spending” is ludicrous. California needs a plan, not mere rhetoric.
calbear on November 2, 2009 at 2:26 PM
$1,600 and $500 a year in property taxes? That ain’t squat. Come live in Connecticut, I pay nearly $3,500 on a small raised ranch!
Johnnyreb on November 2, 2009 at 2:26 PM
Re:
Seriously, any illegal immigration movement should include building a wall around California to protect the rest of the nation from their ideas.
Scranton on November 2, 2009 at 2:27 PM
BottomLine5,
Play SimSociety, you can create a government run utopia. Kind of creepy to do, really.
Scranton on November 2, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Most of these mutts will try and spread their liberal illness to the states they move to.
Like an infestation of fleas carrying the plague, they will seek to sicken their new home states with their wacky politics that ruined their former home state…. BEWARE!
rabidamerican on November 2, 2009 at 2:29 PM
Seems some of the Californians are moving to NC…god help us all.
SouthernGent on November 2, 2009 at 2:30 PM
I’ve been saying this for awhile… Just get out of the liberals way and let them destroy it all then and only then will people lose their appetite for/dependance upon government.
Theworldisnotenough on November 2, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Ahem. It’s still the best public university education in the Americas. Crowder’s ability to find a few ignoramuses doesn’t change that.
calbear on November 2, 2009 at 2:35 PM
i was talking about this article on another site and i was told that a co-worker had just moved from CA and had taken a UHAUL.
the funny part was is the round trip charge was cheaper than the one way charge due to a shortage of UHAUL trucks in CA.
don’t know if its true, but if it is, thats rather profound.
swordsman on November 2, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Lived in Houston 34 years and I love it. We barely feel the economic problems the rest of the country feels (with the early 80’s being the only exception) and we are wildly adaptable. We also don’t want immigration reform because we know the danger of getting a lot of folks on welfare. You hear people say, “let’s enact amnesty, get them in our system and they will pay taxes”…That’s crap…these people are experts at living on a cash economy. They will continue to do so even if they were to become US citizens. They want the freebies and to not have to pay taxes. Anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid and shouldn’t even be allowed to vote.
Ltlgeneral64 on November 2, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Do you think maybe its costs more to live here because of the disparity in taxes, regulation and policies?
Spending is the problem. There is no other problem. You see the spending is the final result of all the diysfunction. Until the state gets that under control for the long term California gets that under control for the long term the state will continue to repel capital and the middle class. And unfortunately as productive people leave the state they weaken the voting base that has an incentive to change things, while the people that reap from the system will never vote to undermine it. Total collapse is what is they need.
Theworldisnotenough on November 2, 2009 at 2:39 PM
It’s the same in NY,
Can’t understand why. /sarc
Juno77 on November 2, 2009 at 2:41 PM
California state treasurer lectures members of the state legislature on their incompetence.
snaggletoothie on November 2, 2009 at 2:41 PM
Hey, the freaking idiots have been brainwashed in the schools here. They’ve come to believe that if they sacrifice ‘just a little more’ things will get better. But all we ever hear out of Sacramento is “just a little more”.
The Democrats have RUINED this state. And the MODERATE Republicans have been their handmaiden. None have wanted to be the tightfisted Uncle who says NO!
GarandFan on November 2, 2009 at 2:42 PM
Several bloggers have correctly complained that fleeing Californians are not chastened Californians. They bring their liberal ideology to their new environment and, in sufficient numbers, can overwhelm their adopted state with a more progressive viewpoint.
Don’t those fools realize that the reason for their fleeing California was high taxes, corruption and economic chaos caused by people like them? Doesn’t it occur to them that they create the same environment in Nevada, Oregon, Washington and Arizona with their progressive philosophy when they move there? Even a dumb bird learns from its mistakes. A bird that flies into a mirror or window pane (if it survives) does so only once. Apparently Californians fly into mirrors over and over again and never stop until they have broken their necks.
MaiDee on November 2, 2009 at 2:45 PM
I pay $4500 property tax on a 250K home in Austin, TX. We don\’t have income taxes but we have high property taxes. Plus all the tax districts here in Travis county. ACC District, Health District, Solar Program.. etc. Don\’t even get me started on CapMetro which is cutting bus routes in my part of the city and building a rail to nowhere that has had two years worth of delays and hundreds of millions of dollars disappeared. That, and much of the property tax goes to other school districts via the Robin Hood program, and the top 10% rule means when my kid does go to a good high school and is more apt and able to attend UT, he might not get to go because his school is more competitive than other schools who\’s top 10% would fail at his H.S.I blame all the Californians moving here and I do my best to run em off the road when I see em! j/k on that last bit.
James on November 2, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Aaiieeeeee! Nooooo!!
Okay. Texas needs to implement a strict emigration policy:
If you’re from California, New York, Massachusetts, or any of the other loony lefty states, STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM TEXAS.
No exceptions, no how, no way.
coppertop on November 2, 2009 at 2:48 PM
rut-roe, this is where Texas is breaking down. No income tax but I pay about $6,000 in property taxes for about 2,000 sf in Houston.
DanMan on November 2, 2009 at 2:49 PM
That’s nothing compared to the premiums inherent in matters totally independent of these things: The weather is a huge premium, as are related things like lifestyle, natural beauty, recreation, etc. Food’s better here than other states, and there are more cultural opportunities. But the big one is this: If you’re setting up a high tech business, odds are you’ll want to set it up in or near Silicon Valley, which is where the employees are and probably where you’re from too. High taxes are a pain, but worse is having to move away from your family/friends/business network and/or failing due to lack of good employees and business contacts. The same goes for the entertainment industry and Hollywood. And people in those industries have money, skewing the demand curve. I mean, think about it: A place in Manhattan doesn’t cost ten times as much as a place of similar size in New Jersey because of New York taxes. A place in San Francisco doesn’t cost so much more than a place in Sacramento because of taxes.
My point is that it’s amazing how many people (including you) can pinpoint the problem without yielding a solution any more specific than “cut spending!” That’s about as practical as “Let them eat cake!” unless you have an idea of how to do so.
calbear on November 2, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Last I heard, Ohio, thanks to Dem. Gov. Strickland and some lefties in the education system is undertaking to eliminate ROTC wherever it exists in Ohio high schools. My dad, a ROTC grad from–get ready for it–Cal-Berkley in the 1950s is having a fit.
BuckeyeSam on November 2, 2009 at 2:54 PM
As a Washington State resident, we saw an influx of Californians migrating to Washington in the 1980s and 90s. Washington has always been a Democrat state, but after the influx of these Californians, Washington is now one of the most liberal states in the country. Seattle is almost at par with San Francisco in its progressive/marxist agenda. The Scoop Jackson Democrats of the 70s would be considered right-wing nuts compared to those in power now in this state. I blame California for our problems.
DoS_Conservative on November 2, 2009 at 2:58 PM
Don’t forget it was a bunch of transplants from everywhere else in the States and beyond who effed up Cali to begin with. Maybe y’all should’ve stayed the hell out in the first place.
/Since we’re generalizing…
Christien on November 2, 2009 at 3:07 PM
coppertop I’m a New yorker but a rare conservative. Can’t I move to Texas? Please? Besides you might need my vote when Obama enfranchises illegal aliens.
MaiDee on November 2, 2009 at 3:08 PM
I love Texas.
Besides everything else, there are good, decent people here.
We moved to a neighborhood that had a Fourth of July parade! With the local fire department and all of the kids rode behind the fire truck with flags on their bikes.
In DC, that only happend on May Day.
NoDonkey on November 2, 2009 at 3:10 PM
After building that wall around CA, fill it up with water. No good can ever come from letting liberals, Dems and RINOs run a state government. Who would have thought that CA would end up like the welfare/union state of Michigan. Gird your loins, indeed.
Zorg on November 2, 2009 at 3:14 PM
I’ve lived in California all my life. It is sad to see us dying at the hands of socialists and environmentalists. The migration of good jobs to more favorable governments is leaving us with more dead beats stealing from the productive ones still standing. It is only a matter of time before a full on bankruptcy takes us all the way down.
Dog bites on November 2, 2009 at 3:16 PM
It did start with Proposition 13, but the unraveling happened because the politicians in Sacramento put their heads in the sand after Prop 13 passed and refused to put any brakes on the growth of government. If they had actually paid attention to what the voters told them in 1978, California would still be the best place in the country to live.
The people of California collectively screamed again by enacting term limits in the 1990s, but the politicians still refused to listen. They screamed again in recalling Gray Davis, but the politicians still didn’t listen.
Now they have stopped screaming and started leaving.
rockmom on November 2, 2009 at 3:17 PM
All them yankees try to bring that lib trash down here to the southeast.
And we try to make them very uncomfortable. Turn that thing around, demotrash.
Normal folks are feted to barbecue and craft beer.
noblejones on November 2, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Winner!
BallisticBob on November 2, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Please stop lumping ALL Californians into the nuts that reside in the Bay Area and Los Angeles.
We aren’t all to blame for goofs in Sacramento. The gerrymandered districts insures no changes in the intrenched incumbent professional politicians.
Actually, I’d like to blame the rest of the country on putting McCain on the ballot. California had no say who was the Republican candidate…What a bunch of morons! Thanks alot!
There are plenty of conservatives in California, especially in Orange County. They are just not heard above the shouts coming from the over-represented illegal population.
We are waking up and you will see some changes coming…starting with school districts and local government
Ditkaca on November 2, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Reasons for me to stay in Lavaca county.
Johan Klaus on November 2, 2009 at 3:30 PM
How many illegal aliens crossed the border in 2005-06? More than the 3,247 who left?
It’s the illegal alien population and the dependent-class of citizens the government of California now supports and answers to. Producers and earners be damned.
CliffHanger on November 2, 2009 at 3:43 PM
All you Texans vote NO for amendments 1,4,5,6,8,11.
docdave on November 2, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Austin, Texas is a perfect example of why we should follow your advise. Really cool and different place through the 70’s. But once the Californians moved into “Silicon Hills” it turned into the Peoples Republic of Austin. Very sad.
brtex on November 2, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Come on people, lets not be politically correct here, the reason Cali is going down is
undocumented peopleillegal immigrants and the states policies on those MILLIONS of II,sroyzer on November 2, 2009 at 3:57 PM
People leaving the Socialist/Marxist hell holes is why the left loves Totalitarianism, they can’t let people vote with their feet and leave.
RJL on November 2, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Whoa there padnur’
Amendment 11
Prohibiting the taking, damaging, or destroying of
private property for public use unless the action is for the
ownership, use, and enjoyment of the property by the State,
a political subdivision of the State, the public at large, or
entities granted the power of eminent domain under law or
for the elimination of urban blight on a particular parcel
of property, but not for certain economic development or
enhancement of tax revenue purposes, and to limit the
legislature’s authority to grant the power of eminent domain
to an entity.
It limits eminent domain. This is one to vote for.
cozmo on November 2, 2009 at 4:44 PM
Not all us Native Californians are ignorant progs. I abandoned Kalifornia in ‘95 when I saw the writing on the wall. Been a proud Virginian ever since.
You should beware the Mary-landers though! They screwed up their state and they are intent on spreading their desease! They’ve infested Northern Virginia by bringing their politiKKKs with them and we are hitting back – hard.
Progs are like locusts! They devour the resources around them and then move on to devour the next state!
vapig on November 2, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Do NOT stop in Nevada.
We would consider this a fatal mistake. Um, “Death by misadventure”
Just keep drivin’ right on through.
docjohn52 on November 2, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Libertarian Dwight Yoakam had it nailed in “The Late Great Golden State” and that was a few years back.
NTWR on November 2, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Unfortunately, there was no wall to protect California from George W. Bush and the consequences of his nitwit immigration policies. He not only allowed illegal immigration into California, he made it worse with his “compassionate conservative” bulls—. That’s one of several reasons why I hate Dubya’s f–king guts with a passion. And where is Dubya from? Oh yeah, Texas by way of Yale.
Many, many hospitals in California have gone bankrupt and shut down as a direct result of the Bush administration’s policy – or lack thereof – on illegal immigration. Remember Bush’s statement, “We have to welcome the newcomers!”? Or Chertoff’s statement that we’re a bunch of racists because we don’t like having our society destroyed by a federally endorsed tidal wave of non-taxpaying, service consuming illegals?
California is (or was) the 7th largest economy in the world. That’s a hell of a carrot for third world Mexicans and Latin Americans. The federal government did not even pretend to enforce the border and, as a direct consequence, screwed California in a big, big way.
Django on November 2, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Oh, and here’s a little tip from my inner circle- there’s a possibility a big story will break soon about the Bay Bridge and a contractor known for using low grade steel. Heard whispers of it from Ray Appleton on KMJ580 earlier, too.
Hopefully the S will HTF soon so we can purge the state of Pelosi and her witchy friends Boxer and Feinstain.
NTWR on November 2, 2009 at 5:14 PM
Well, maybe. After close scrutiny of your conservative bona fides, a decision will be made and you will be duly notified. Good luck!
Egg-zackly! This is what I’m talking about, and we can’t let it happen to, for example, San Antonio! It’s only 80 miles down the road, and creeping liberalism creeps pretty fast once it gets moving. We might have to adopt Nevada’s approach. (See docjohn52@ 4:56p.m.)
coppertop on November 2, 2009 at 5:27 PM
Did you know that California is the only state mentioned in the Bible?
Song of Solomon 6:11:
“I went down into the garden of nuts…”
pilamaye on November 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM
One salient point here, is that during this period, Texas also took in a couple hundrend thousand people from Hurricane Katrina – which means that during 2005 – 2007 their expenditures were artificially higher than then should be after those people are able to assimilate into the communities in Texas, and begin to contribute back, which will lower that number.
KMC1 on November 2, 2009 at 5:40 PM
You agree with the rest of my NOs?
docdave on November 2, 2009 at 5:42 PM
We could turn our economy around in less than a year if we simply harvested the natural oil seeps off the coast of Santa Barbara. The stuff is polluting the beaches, killing the seagulls, we don’t even need to drill for it, and the “environmentalists” are preventing us from collecting it to use for energy.
UCSB top scientists have even released a study that shows if we decreased the pressure from the under-sea oil by harvesting it from already existing platforms it would decrease the pollution. SHHH! That’s crazy talk though!
NTWR on November 2, 2009 at 5:49 PM
I have heard this many times from Californians. I don’t believe it. My three eldest were in grade school until 1971 in a very small school district, which included Palos Verdes Estates, CA. This district was supposed to be one of the best in California. It was much smaller and less diverse than the current district which has grown by merger and population growth. We moved to Fairfax, VA. Fairfax schools are among the best in Virginia. My kids were behind in the new system. The school system here deals with a current poulation of eight hundred thousand. It was probably 70% of that in 1971. It is very diverse.
burt on November 2, 2009 at 6:04 PM
WAUGH’S SECOND LAW OF GOVERNMENT: Perceived social needs always exceed existing revenues.
Dr. Charles G. Waugh on November 2, 2009 at 6:13 PM
Hmmmm….
As of now,I am only in favor of amendment 9 and 11.
#1 would give back a little power taken away if #11 passes. Nothing changes if it fails, but passing it would give local pols power they don’t already have, and would most likely have to ask voters for permission to do it if it didn’t pass.
#2 and 3 should be subsets of 1 and 5, so they get a no.
#4 I understand the reasoning for this one, but if it was a good enough idea to pass on its own within the legislature, it would be funded. Texas public universities got traded some worthless west Texas land for their prime east Texas farmland many years ago. I don’t foresee them getting that lucky again. I say leave the university fund alone. That’s what makes higher education affordable in Texas.
#5 You (not you, but any Texan thinking about voting for this one)want the Dallas Central Appraisal District spread all over the state? Nameless faceless bureaucrats in charge of appraisals for taxing purposes. In a perfect world it would be okay…not even Texas is a perfect world.
#6 and 8 I am not quite sure of at this time. If they fail, nothing changes. I don’t see why permission cannot be asked of the voters on a case-by-case basis.
#7 is one I could be persuaded to vote for as a time saving measure, but see answer for 6 and 8.
#9 is self evident.
#10 I have had a hard enough time trusting pols for 2 years, I ain’t gonna’ double that.
#11 self evident and the most important one on the ballot but 1, 2, 3 and 5 are close.
I guess that means I mostly concur. Are you for the other five?
cozmo on November 2, 2009 at 6:17 PM
Oh, joy.
So the left-tards from Cali move to red states which have kept their fiscal houses in order, and which still pay some attention to the Bill of Rights. They then begin to vote to implement their same failed social experiments in their new states. Witness Colorado. Once a bastion of Republicanism, Denver and Boulder, centers of immigration from Kalifornia, now have anti gun laws which would make Joe Stalin and Adolf Hitler proud.
Maybe we could build a wall around Kalifornia to keep them all in.
With machine gun towers.
quikstrike98 on November 2, 2009 at 6:23 PM
If anyone is in the N California district where David Harmer is running, run don’t walk to vote for him. He is a conservative in a very, very, very liberal district, and he is a good man. If you know anyone, family etc., please let them know.
I’m not sure of his web site, but I’m sure you could find it under his name. He hasn’t gotten the press coverage that others I guess because they think it’s a lost cause, but it isn’t.
Bambi on November 2, 2009 at 6:52 PM
Oh, please. Oklahoma is mentioned all through the Bible.
“How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God; this is the gate of heaven.” Genesis 28:17
I will declare that your love stands firm forever, that you established your faithfulness in heaven itself. Psalm 89:2
As you go, preach this message: “The kingdom of heaven is near.” Matthew 10:7
I could go on.
J.E. Dyer on November 2, 2009 at 7:02 PM
Didn’t California recently try, and fail, to pass a law which would penalize businesses that try to move out of state?
Dhuka on November 2, 2009 at 7:06 PM
As a thought experiment let’s think about Proposition 13 and its unintended consequences. First, the limit on property taxes didn’t stop the tax and spend engine. The CA government just found other ways to get money. Not the least of which was to jack up the marginal tax for high income earners. That’s fine when the going is good but now that the real estate and construction industries – to say nothing of the tech slack in Silicon Valley – are collapsing, the result is that revenues from income tax collapse when the recession arrives.
Another unintended consequence to consider is that the ceiling on property taxes wound up directing investment into real estate in the search to find profitable, i.e. low tax, areas of investment. Thus, the coming Option ARM tsunami (over 40% of all option arm mortgage loans originated in CA) may have resulted from the artificially inflated demand for real estate caused to Proposition 13. It is, of course, always best to respect the principles of the U.S. Constitution and limit the size – and thus tax appetite – of government. When distortions, such as Proposition 13, are incorporated into the system, before the power of government is controlled, the results are what can be seen in CA today.
boqueronman on November 2, 2009 at 7:12 PM
I was kind of concuring to the recommendations of Lone Star Times.
http://lonestartimes.com/2009/10/30/print-out-10000-copies-of-this-post-and-distribute-them/
Check these out and let me know what you think. Still time to change my vote.
docdave on November 2, 2009 at 7:14 PM
More illegals will save you!
More illegals!
Mooooore!!!!
profitsbeard on November 2, 2009 at 7:19 PM
I have some problems but it will take a while and I am about to start making dinner with the family. Will return later.
In the meantime, here is the actual amendments to peruse:
PDF
if you want it in html:
HTML
cozmo on November 2, 2009 at 7:30 PM
I’m born and raised in California. Except for my stint in the military, I have lived in California my entire life. I started noticing California’s slow but sure decline when I was a young teen, when for some reason it suddenly mattered, and up until young adulthood when the degradation and decomposing of California started to reach a fever pitch. For the last 25 years or so I have watched and suffered as it has continued unabated, driving families and businesses out of California in droves while the illegal immigrants and reprobates moved in in droves.
I happen to personally know the owner of Buck Knives, Chuck “CJ” Buck, and his family. I’ve eaten dinner at their home, attended a couple of birthday and Christmas parties there, and I have done some shooting in his underground shooting range in his backyard. His company, Buck Knives, had been in business in Southern California since his grandfather and father built the company from scratch in the early 1900’s. Buck Knives raked in a huge amount of money for California and Chuck employed thousands of Californians. He tried everything, desperately, to help California keep him in business in California. They basically told him to piss off with their responses to his efforts. So, he pulled up stakes and moved his entire company and his entire family out of California. He was literally driven away by outrageous state taxes, California business guidelines/laws/mandates, and the reprobate politicians that run this state. Chuck now enjoys a much much less state burdened business that is thriving anew.
The never-ending infestation of illegal immigrant’s, the dysfunctional tax and spend liberal legislature(s), and the true-blue welfare state that California has become has sealed its fate. There will be no ‘rescue’ for California. Ever. It will only get worse. It has always only ever gotten worse. At every opportunity to change course and/or ‘rescue’ this state, it has never materialized. It has only ever gotten worse. The voters in this state have demanded that which they now receive every two and four years for over 20 years. If it hasn’t stopped by now, It will never end.
In four years, six months, and sum-odd days, I will retire with a healthy pension and an even healthier portfolio. I and my family have already planned for and are preparing to pull up stakes and depart California forever. Along with my healthy pension and rather beefy portfolio that is leaving this deviant infested and thieving reprobate politician run State of California, two additional tax-paying wage earners and a future wage earner are departing as well. There is no deviating from it. It will be done. It is written in stone. We are so happily and willingly gone as residents of this cesspit of a state.
I await my retirement day as much as a child awaits Christmas morning. Every month that my retirement draws closer, the anticipation and excitement grows exponentially stonger. I figure I will have reached condition giddy the night before I have the moving bigrig truck in my driveway with the loading doors open.
I promised my family we would depart California never to return as residents. I am a man of my word, through and through. I get a little bit giddy just thinking and writing about it now. Five years will almost feel like an eternity, but the move and the destination are already sealed and now it is just a matter of May 2014 arriving. Hallelujah!
SilverStar830 on November 2, 2009 at 7:33 PM
They come to Texas, but bring their political ideologies with them. Soon, we’ll be just like Cali.
TinMan13 on November 2, 2009 at 7:41 PM
To save space and my fingers I will just reply to the one’s I disagree with.
First the Lone Star link
Proposition 2 – They claim it limit property taxes, just like the property tax limit passed in the 90’s worked…not. It will add a sales tax to real estate, not good. Just like in the 90’s and all the promises not to raise rates. Appraisal districts play with appraisals and exemptions to get the tax dollars the local pols want.
In short, a new tax.
Proposition 3 disingenuous of them. No, it will not create a statewide property tax authority. It will allow local property tax authorities to band together. And it also starts as an umbrella for a sales tax on real estate…a new tax.
Proposition 7 okay, they may have swayed me. But here too they are sort of disingenuous. This only covers the state level guard. Others are already able to hold more than one position.
Proposition 9 Beaches move, state or local authorities need to protect their beaches, but just as the current can change the course of a boundary river, the state long ago gave access to state beaches. There are cases for eminent domain and this is one. And I know people with beach houses on Bolivar peninsula. If this passes, state and local agencies will have to take greater responsibility in caring for the beaches in order to keep the tax base. If it fails the beaches can be allowed to erode without fear of losing properties that pay taxes. In a perfect world I could go either way on this one, but as I said earlier, not even Texas is perfect.
The rest of them, we are in agreement.
cozmo on November 2, 2009 at 8:53 PM
As a refugee from New Labour’s nightmare Britain, can I just say: Californian gringo nutbags go home!!!
I live hippy heaven Austin and my property taxes are $8000 on a 1200 sq ft house. Which mostly goes to educate illegal aliens’ children.
Fortunata on November 2, 2009 at 9:53 PM
East Tennessee, East Tennessee, East Tennessee,
East Tennessee, East Tennessee, East Tennessee,
East Tennessee, East Tennessee, East Tennessee,
Pelayo on November 2, 2009 at 9:57 PM
You realize of course this all the fault of the South and those lousy red states.
If they didn’t have low taxes and less regulation people wouldn’t be moving out of the blue liberal states just because they needed to “increase revenue”.
No joke, National Journal tried to argue that very point. Compared the South to Mexico and India.
Sackett on November 2, 2009 at 10:03 PM
That dang competition stuff will get ya’ every time.
That’s why it must be stamped out early.
cozmo on November 2, 2009 at 10:20 PM
The problem is, these people are like locusts, they swarm from state to state ruining everything in their path because they overwhelm the local population with their liberal votes, and then they can’t figure out why it’s not working and so they swarm on over to the next state. They should stay in their own state and grab a mop, and maybe hand one to cousin Pookie while they’re at it. But they’ll never do that, because for a liberal, it’s always someone else’s fault.
Boudica on November 3, 2009 at 2:42 AM
Deport every illegal alien that is identified by a government agency.
Institute a state wide school voucher system.
Require voter approval for all pay/benefit increases for all state employees.
Stop all increases in welfare benefits. (including cost of living, and additional children)
Sounds like a good idea for my home state of Colorado as well.
darktood on November 3, 2009 at 6:42 AM
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