WH adds new enemy to list: Edmunds
posted at 2:20 pm on October 30, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
The Obama White House has apparently decided to wage a two-front war on the media. After a blistering analysis of the Cash for Clunkers program from the well-established auto industry analyst Edmunds, the White House tried attacking their credibility while claiming that automakers were planning for greatly-increased demand for their new products. Business Insider wondered what the administration could be thinking:
On the same day that we found out that motor vehicle output added 1.7% to economic growth in the third quarter – the largest contribution to quarterly growth in over a decade – Edmunds.com has released a faulty analysis suggesting that the Cash for Clunkers program had no meaningful impact on our economy or on overall auto sales. This is the latest of several critical “analyses” of the Cash for Clunkers program from Edmunds.com, which appear designed to grab headlines and get coverage on cable TV. Like many of their previous attempts, this latest claim doesn’t withstand even basic scrutiny.
The Edmunds analysis is based on two implausible assumptions:
1. The Edmunds’ analysis rests on the assumption that the market for cars that didn’t qualify for Cash for Clunkers was completely unaffected by this program.
In other words, all the other cars were being sold on Mars, while the rest of the country was caught up in the excitement of the Cash for Clunkers program. This analysis ignores not only the price impacts that a program like Cash for Clunkers has on the rest of the vehicle market, but the reports from across the country that people were drawn into dealerships by the Cash for Clunkers program and ended up buying cars even though their old car was not eligible for the program.
The post title? “Busy Covering Car Sales on Mars, Edmunds.com Gets It Wrong (Again) on Cash for Clunkers.” Well, that’s certainly presidential. And, of course, it missed the point — to which Edmunds returns in their rebuttal:
At issue is one point of the analysis showing the taxpayer cost for every incremental vehicle sold was $24,000. To be clear, Edmunds.com is not disputing the government’s statements regarding total voucher applications, vehicles sold or voucher values. The key question is how many of these sales would have occurred anyway.
Apparently, the $24,000 figure caught many by surprise. It shouldn’t have. The truth is that consumer incentive programs are always hugely expensive when calculated by incremental sales — always in the tens of thousands of dollars. Cash for Clunkers was no exception.
The White House claims that our analysis was based on car sales on Mars and that on Earth, the marketplace is connected. We agree the marketplace is connected. In fact, that is exactly the basis of our analysis.
It is also claimed we missed the possibility that Cash for Clunkers generated excitement and consumers bought vehicles even if they didn’t qualify for the program — a claim that has been widely supported by anecdote but by little analysis. It does, after all, seem a bit odd that masses of consumers would elect to buy a vehicle because of a program for which they don’t qualify — doubly so when you add in the fact that prices shot up during Cash for Clunkers, creating a disincentive to buy.
Finally, the White House claims that the increase in fourth-quarter production reported by the car manufacturers can be attributed to Cash for Clunkers. But here is a better reason: the economy is recovering accompanied by improved car sales. No manufacturer increases production — a decision with long-term consequences — based on the 30-day sales blip triggered by an event like Cash for Clunkers.
With all respect to the White House, Edmunds.com thinks that instead of shooting the messenger, government officials should take heart from the core message of the analysis: the fundamentals of the auto marketplace are improving faster than the current sales numbers suggest.
In fact, Edmunds actually avoided the argument made by some critics of the program, who said that most of the sales in the C4C program came at the expense of future sales. All Edmunds noted with their analysis was that about 5/6ths of the sales would have occurred without taxpayer subsidies, which made the cost of getting the other 1/6th into new cars a very expensive proposition. Instead of addressing that argument, the administration made arguments about Mars instead.
If the economy has begun to truly improve, of course car sales will increase over the disastrous performance of earlier this year. However, that relies on actual growth, not gimmicky and momentary incentives from the government, which makes the third quarter auto performance an unreliable indicator of longer-term health (and the same applies to new-home sales as well, another major contributor to Q3′s growth number). But even with actual growth, the 540,000 people who used taxpayer subsidies to buy last year’s models won’t be heading into showrooms for at least a couple of years to buy new models rolling off the line now or later.
The administration’s reaction once again reveals a very thin skin and a temperament perhaps suited to campaigning, but certainly not towards governing. When will the White House grow up?










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Wait til Christmas sales are down. Santa’s fault!
faraway on October 30, 2009 at 2:21 PM
War with the cars! Get those cars, get them! War!
- – - – - – - – - –
Meanwhile, back in sane circles, the rest of us ask about our troops in Afghanistan.
Apparently, Obama is too preoccupied with being Important and Grand among his chosen circle to tolerate any suggestion of not totally crushing cars, capitalism and opionions he thinks may tarnish his Shiny Happy Realm.
Lourdes on October 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Used car values are racist.
UltimateBob on October 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM
When will the administration grow up? You’re joking, right?
Bob's Kid on October 30, 2009 at 2:25 PM
yay for the Whine House
Doctor Zhivago on October 30, 2009 at 2:27 PM
Next: Coca-Cola and apple pie
faraway on October 30, 2009 at 2:27 PM
Clunkers in the White House are taking our Cash
Kini on October 30, 2009 at 2:27 PM
No, it’s not a joke. Obama has actually declared an enemy of an auto website. Seriously. He and Administration think the site is somehow making opinions known that are contrary to Obama’s political ideals.
It’s A CAR WEBSITE.
Lourdes on October 30, 2009 at 2:27 PM
Totally predictable.
progressoverpeace on October 30, 2009 at 2:27 PM
By fiat of Obooba. Hey, if they act on their pretend facts expect lots of excess inventory and much cheaper deals next end-of-model year.
The wonders of command economy.
Akzed on October 30, 2009 at 2:27 PM
The White House said THIS?!
The OFFICIAL White House communications line said THAT?!?
That’s not communication. That’s not even professional rebuttals.
That’s flame blogging…
:facepalm:
Skywise on October 30, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Edmunds from Mars, Obama from Venus?
jon1979 on October 30, 2009 at 2:28 PM
I’d like to suggest legislation be introduced that requires Barack Obama AND his entire administration to conduct all transportation by way of mule-driven wagons. Oh, and rowboats when they need to cross the oceans.
Lourdes on October 30, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Again, that 3.5% GDP growth is pure BS.
– 1.66% came from C4C (non-recurring)
– 2.37% came from increased Federal Spending (money we don’t have, wasted on temporary crap)
– 0.94% came from changes in inventory (accounting effect, nothing to with economic growth)
Ergo, actual net economic output DECLINED in the 3rd quarter by 1.47%
Hooray for the Obama recovery /sarc
Norwegian on October 30, 2009 at 2:29 PM
Several of our trolls tried to claim that yesterdays 190 point increase in the DOW, was proof that the “smart money” believed the economy had recovered.
As of 1pm, the DOW was down today by over 220 points.
If yesterdays improvement was proof the economy was recovering, what does today’s even larger drop prove???
Answer, nothing.
Single day movements mean nothing. You have to track the market over weeks to determine it’s direction.
MarkTheGreat on October 30, 2009 at 2:31 PM
What are they going to do… attack everyone that tells the truth?
Can we put these weewee’d people up on an island so we can start over?
upinak on October 30, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Well, Edmunds has tremendous credibility with me as using their information I was able to talk a car salesman down $5k. He saw my printout from Edmunds and it totally changed the negotiation.
They had better watch out or they might get an extra IRS audit.
Grow up, Obama et al!
NTWR on October 30, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Edmunds.com and FOX News are the most dangerous threat to the free world since the Nazis when they tried to take over Europe. They’re worse than al Qaeda and Bin Laden.
/Obama Administration, allegedly full of “adults”
Good Lt on October 30, 2009 at 2:31 PM
California is going to begin “Cash for Appliances” program next year. What could go wrong?
Brat on October 30, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Is there no individual or group that the Whine House won’t attack?
VibrioCocci on October 30, 2009 at 2:32 PM
I think that’s asking too much of him and them.
Lourdes on October 30, 2009 at 2:33 PM
Kind of like the way FDR and Hoover pressured manufacturers to keep wages up in the face of dropping demand.
Count to 10 on October 30, 2009 at 2:33 PM
It proves that Edmunds.com and FOX News are threats to the security of the nation we’ve ever faced.
And that Bush’s fault etc etc etc.
/Obamacrat off
Good Lt on October 30, 2009 at 2:33 PM
is it just Cali though?
upinak on October 30, 2009 at 2:33 PM
Per FBI:
faraway on October 30, 2009 at 2:33 PM
Trinity Church and Bill Ayers are pretty much in the clear. Other than that … Hotair will probably make the enemies list in the not-too-distant future. The Whine House might even single out individual commenters! Whoopee!
progressoverpeace on October 30, 2009 at 2:34 PM
Cash for clunkers was an artificial fix on the economy.
It is/was unsustainable and the money spent, what 2 billion burned through in, what two months….
This is the wake of an economic tsunami. The water has gone out and the wave is building up. Economic destruction next.
Kini on October 30, 2009 at 2:34 PM
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue = The Gang that couldn’t shoot straight…
Again…
Khun Joe on October 30, 2009 at 2:34 PM
Gibbs smarmy response to Major Garrett’s line of questioning on this stuff today may be worth revisiting in future quarters.
stldave on October 30, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Pschew, Rahm is sure working his princess phone! Calling in those threats, sending out those fish, boy, hard work!
Lourdes on October 30, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Ah, yes. The Oh,bummer Whiz Kids lecture those who ‘can’…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlVDGmjz7eM&feature=player_embedded
Doorgunner on October 30, 2009 at 2:35 PM
BWAHAHAHA! That’s a good one. ::wipes away tears::
Physics Geek on October 30, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Do we taxpayers pay for the white house to defend itself politically?
WashJeff on October 30, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Single day movements tell you what the novice buyers/day traders are thinking, though, so it is probably a decent indicator of how the media is presenting the news that day.
Count to 10 on October 30, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Is it 2012 yet.
txag92 on October 30, 2009 at 2:37 PM
red winger on October 30, 2009 at 2:37 PM
Liberals are like petulant children caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Not only do they always use the ‘who, me?’ defense but they condemn those who catch them in the wrong.
Sort of like, “It’s YOUR fault I got caught stealing! If you didn’t catch me there wouldn’t be a problem!”
Liam on October 30, 2009 at 2:37 PM
A President who cared about America would welcome this news, but Obama throws a hissy fit because he can’t take credit for the predicted improvement in the automotive situation.
zmdavid on October 30, 2009 at 2:37 PM
not in this lifetime…
cmsinaz on October 30, 2009 at 2:37 PM
You’re all missing it -it is not Fox or Edmunds or Joe the Plumber that is the enemy of this WHITEHOUSE – but the oldest enemy in history, TRUTH. You are either with Him or against Him, the Obama administration is just shouting “give us Barrabus” Socialist style. They can’t stand the light shining upon their deceit and will destroy any light that exposes their evil and that’s what they do – evil. (infanticide anyone?)
Don L on October 30, 2009 at 2:37 PM
You mean our pseudonyms might get national press?
Count to 10 on October 30, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Cali just announced. Looks like every state is going to have some sort of program that may or may not be announced yet.
Brat on October 30, 2009 at 2:38 PM
excellent…
cmsinaz on October 30, 2009 at 2:38 PM
That was a rhetorical question, right?
Fed45 on October 30, 2009 at 2:39 PM
The Ministry OF Propaganda is hard at work, I see.
Uncle Joe would be proud.
Badger40 on October 30, 2009 at 2:39 PM
I noticed this as well. This isn’t Presidential communications, this is something from a Mac vs. PC flamewar, or something those freaks who like Glocks would post on a gun board. :)
ExUrbanKevin on October 30, 2009 at 2:40 PM
AWESOMELY COOL!
I hope so.
I just wish I had picked a way cooler name.
Badger40 on October 30, 2009 at 2:40 PM
I heard the Obama Administrations going to go to war with THE WEATHER CHANNEL next due to them reporting actual weather that doesn’t conform with the White Houses projected Warming trends.
portlandon on October 30, 2009 at 2:40 PM
Ergo, actual net economic output DECLINED in the 3rd quarter by 1.47%
Hooray for the Obama recovery /sarc
Norwegian on October 30, 2009 at 2:29 PM
In Obamaconomics you need to take the absolute value. Get with the program.
Jed_Eckert on October 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM
You have to understand, Mark, that to most Liberals, it’s a case of instant gratification. THEN they fit (or, refit) circumstances, reasons why, around what they’ve already instantly gratified themselves with or by.
So, one day to a Liberal is all that matters. Otherwise, they’d be able to reasonably discuss failures, down times, lack of results, different opinions, new information…
You’re right about the market (takes more than a day to analyze it with substance) but to the Left today, any blurted-out thing that might be used to make Obama look Supreme is what they’ll seize on for that very reason, regardless of reality (more of that instant gratification problem of theirs). The other 350 days of this year — and those to come — they’ll stay on safe territory like HuffPo and Kos.
But worse of all is that this typifies Barack Obama…
Lourdes on October 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM
President Wee Wee
ohiorebel on October 30, 2009 at 2:42 PM
How about “Cash for Houses”, next? If I agree to burn down my house, the gubmint will give me money to buy a brand new house!
Fed45 on October 30, 2009 at 2:43 PM
There could be whole Whine House press conferences about our pseudonyms and how we are mortal threats to the universe. I wouldn’t be surprised if they picked out individual commenters to be blame for killing the public option or Crap&Trade or whatever.
progressoverpeace on October 30, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Nothin’ to see here, keep movin’.
Fuquay Steve on October 30, 2009 at 2:43 PM
That Midwest snowstorm today has to be part of the VRWC.
Liam on October 30, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Notice how passionate the Whine House (I love this new name) is about the War on Fox and the War on Edmunds? Compare that to how much attention the actual, literal wars overseas get. Obama isn’t acting as the President of the US; he’s acting as the President of Obama. There is swift and punishing retaliation against the slightest perception of an attack against The One, but precious little concern about attacks or potential attacks against the country as a whole.
Mr. President, do yourself and the entire country a favor: grow thicker skin.
jwolf on October 30, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Too much carbon dioxide emissions for that process.
WashJeff on October 30, 2009 at 2:44 PM
Call me when “Cash for Shoes” begins.
LASue on October 30, 2009 at 2:44 PM
Biden?
Steve Z on October 30, 2009 at 2:44 PM
We sent warplanes to attack those cumulus clouds over the red states.
faraway on October 30, 2009 at 2:45 PM
If this year’s Christmas (which they’ll call Winter Holiday) sales will be down they’ll blame Grinch, which they’ll say was played by G. W. Bush.
Schadenfreude on October 30, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Obama can’t even outsmart a website devoted to cars.
LeeSeneca on October 30, 2009 at 2:45 PM
This shows that Edmunds.com is nothing but an arm of the GOP. I mean look at the name… Edmunds… it has Ed Morrissey’s initials cleverly disguised in the name.
The White House and Freepress should take control of Edmunds.com to maintain neutrality. And to prove that it will be neutral, it will be called Obamoands.com.
MobileVideoEngineer on October 30, 2009 at 2:46 PM
I look for some pretty good deals on C4C repos coming soon.
farright on October 30, 2009 at 2:47 PM
FIFY.
When Couric and CBS go after their god, demanding proof of faith, something is wrong in the WH.
Liam on October 30, 2009 at 2:47 PM
Chris Wallace nailed this “crybaby” bunch, to absolute perfection.
This is a Clunker in Chief, with a puerile administration.
Oh, with apologies to all children…
Schadenfreude on October 30, 2009 at 2:47 PM
facepalm
they are already doing that. If you house burns down you get a massive write off on your taxes.
Look it up.
upinak on October 30, 2009 at 2:47 PM
Cash for Voters is been going strong in PA for years.
WashJeff on October 30, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Maybe allah will open up registration again so people can pick new pseudonyms to prepare? I love mine. Have used it since the olden days of the intertubes.
progressoverpeace on October 30, 2009 at 2:48 PM
These nasty, contemptuous, sneering statements are very reminiscent of how Soviet spokescommies used to talk, back in the day, and how people like Chavez and The Dinner Jacket talk now. Bad stylistic choice if you want to convey that power is in responsible hands.
Splunge on October 30, 2009 at 2:49 PM
Raaaaciiiiisssst !!
macncheez on October 30, 2009 at 2:49 PM
Oh an the most interesting part of Edmunds rebuttal is that they point out the increase in price and the average actual rebate.
The prices of autos went up so the rebate just went into the coffers of profit, not an actual savings to the consumer, who would have done just as well without the program.
LeeSeneca on October 30, 2009 at 2:49 PM
Chris Wallace nailed it with his “crybaby administration” comment.
This is a Clunker in Chief, with a puerile administration.
Apologies to all children
Schadenfreude on October 30, 2009 at 2:49 PM
I’ve kept mine since I started commenting at Ed’s Captain’s Quarters blog, but that wasn’t all that long ago.
Count to 10 on October 30, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Jealous?
LOL
Knucklehead on October 30, 2009 at 2:54 PM
Will they thank the trolls in their ( WH ) basement for their support?
macncheez on October 30, 2009 at 2:54 PM
I’m just waiting for the White House press release that says: “Nuh UH!!”
search4truth on October 30, 2009 at 2:54 PM
I wish my name was SlaughterTheWhales or something.
faraway on October 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Heh. When I wrote that, I was pretty sure someone would edit it as you did. Plus I don’t want Obama out until or unless Biden is out, too.
jwolf on October 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM
I could call you eatingmuktuk but you have to know what muktuk is first.
upinak on October 30, 2009 at 2:56 PM
How long before the White House attacks the American Medical Association when they express concerns about government health care?
MadisonConservative on October 30, 2009 at 2:57 PM
Stay away from Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri pembo. Causes more trouble than it is worth.
WashJeff on October 30, 2009 at 2:58 PM
This is what happened to my in-laws. The dealers were offering small cash incentives and not budging from the MSRP during C4C. My in-laws felt screwed and decided to forgo the C4C $4500!!! Where’s abandonment in the analysis?
NickelAndDime on October 30, 2009 at 2:58 PM
Ah! But when the top dog is out the replacement is a puppy. Easier to nail down and pigeonhole next election.
Liam on October 30, 2009 at 2:59 PM
I want to be added to the enemies list for sending tampons to the president.
HornetSting on October 30, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Didn’t all those goofy “hope’n change” voters comprehend that BHO HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS, ECONOMICS, OR MANAGEMENT EXPERIENCE. With his pathetic lack of any sort of business credentials, it comes as no surprise that his administration isn’t capable of understanding the spot on economic analysis presented by Edmunds.
C4C is just the tip of the iceberg.
With this bunch of ignorant socialists in charge, we’ll watch the ecomony continue to dive as they cook up new schemes until the voters finally wise up and dump them.
‘Til then, the economic outlook is bleak.
bannedbyhuffpo on October 30, 2009 at 3:00 PM
PolarBearHunter
MobileVideoEngineer on October 30, 2009 at 3:01 PM
Back in May, edmunds.com’s “Inside Line” blogged about how the new CAFE standards were crap, too. Has to do with how CAFE and the EPA calculate mileage – EPA’s has changed twice in the last 25 years, while CAFE still uses the original algebra, which is crap.
http://www.insideline.com/car-news/new-math-35-mpg-is-really-26-mpg-under-obama-plan.html
JeffWeimer on October 30, 2009 at 3:01 PM
You gotta send the right kind… extra huge jumbo would be the best. But just sending Depends Diapers would do it.
upinak on October 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM
I think they outsource most of their trolling operations to boiler rooms in Pakistan and Egypt. Cheaper that way. And as they don’t have sensible arguments, anyway, who needs a command of English or a knowledge of America? The Precedent, himself, hasn’t even mastered English (“aay enormous …”, “I screwed up”, “all wee wee’d up”, …) and knows nothing about our nation.
progressoverpeace on October 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM
I had to bite — metaphorically, of course — and check this out on Wiki. I notice they carefully explain that “only the edible part” of the whale skin is eaten. Urk.
jwolf on October 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM
Umm muktuk is the fat.
upinak on October 30, 2009 at 3:04 PM
White House…DailyKos…what’s the difference these days?
OxyCon on October 30, 2009 at 3:05 PM
Send pacifiers, lots of them.
Schadenfreude on October 30, 2009 at 3:07 PM
I looked it up.
Muktuk- what Obama did to the economy
faraway on October 30, 2009 at 3:08 PM
The WASPs and Confederates, creationist, extremists at Edmunds are all in the tank with the oil companies, and Cheney…..it’s Bush!!!!!!
Hening on October 30, 2009 at 3:08 PM
SealClubber, DuckOiler, MigrationDeterrentPipeline?
NickelAndDime on October 30, 2009 at 3:08 PM
C’mon Ed, you know you soooo want to be on that list. I bet you daydream about the time Gibbs names you and Hot Air in one of his daily press briefings as an enemy of the state.
Just A Grunt on October 30, 2009 at 3:08 PM
It’s not really a two-front war. This is a war on business, and that’s been going on since Day One of the New And Improved Obamerikkka.
evergreen on October 30, 2009 at 3:09 PM
CarbonDioxideSpewer
MobileVideoEngineer on October 30, 2009 at 3:13 PM
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