Today was supposed to be the latest grand unveiling of the latest version of House BarryCare.  You know, the second or third edition of the healthcare-eradicating government takeover of American medicine that Crazy Nancy was so “excited” ab…

It’s the same thing that tripped Bush up over Katrina.

AnninCA on October 29, 2009 at 3:43 PM

No. What ‘tripped’ Bush up over Katrina was a little concept called federalism. That and rule of law. But, I may be expecting too much of one to understand this who would also type:

BUT…….I personally love Democracy. We’ll survive this. This is how we roll.

AnninCA on October 29, 2009 at 3:36 PM

Democracy, huh? That people think this country is a democracy is precisely a huge part of the problem….on several levels.

Listen and get a taste of Congressman Shadeggs reaction.

Did anyone get to the part in the Democrats Freight Train that mentions tort reform?

/sarc

TN Mom on October 29, 2009 at 7:25 PM

I think that train left the station months ago. :)

Just think, instead of doing the easy stuff that fixes 80% of the problem, they nuke the whole system. Sigh.

/sarc

If only our Congress would be honest. Honest about covering illegals, honest about forcing taxpayers to fund abortions, honest about doctors leaving the profession in droves under their plan and honest about not only the financial costs but the human costs. Kiss your grandparents goodbye AnninCA.

According to my math, 8% of 15K is way cheaper than 65% of a monthly $1400 premium. The monthly premium to cover her and the family is more than I pay her in a month.

karenhasfreedom

And that’s not all….that is likely considered a “cadillac plan”. That means you have to pay a penalty for providing your employees with a decent insurance plan.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_102909/content/01125112.member.html

And hopefully Rush forgives me and the mods here don’t think I am doing a copyright thingie: but here is the text from the link above

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Now, from the new House bill, I’ve got a couple of passages from it here, the thing Pelosi announced today. I want to read it to you just to show you what we’re going to be dealing with. Now, as I go through this section that I’m going to read part of, it looks like small businesses are going to lose their tax breaks for health coverage. Right now small business gets a tax break for providing health coverage. It looks like it’s going to be phased out in two years. But it’s hard to tell from the damn convoluted language.

“Section 45: Small Business Employee Health Coverage Credit. For purposes of section 38, in the case of a qualified small employer, the small business employee health coverage credit determined under this section for the taxable year is an amount equal to the applicable percentage of the qualified employee health coverage expenses of such employer for such taxable year. For purposes of this section, the applicable percentage is 50 percent. In the case of an employer whose average annual employee compensation for the taxable year exceeds $20,000, the percentage specified in paragraph (1) shall be reduced by a number of percentage points which bears the same ratio to 50 as such excess bears to $20,000.” Are you with me?

“Phaseout based on employer size. In the case of an employer who employs more than 10 qualified employees –” what the? What is a qualified employee? Jeez. Good Lord. “In the case of an employer who employs more than 10 qualified employess during the taxable year, the credit determined under subsection (a) shall be reduced by an amount which bears the same ratio to the amount of such credit (determined without regard to this paragraph and after the application of the other provisions of this section) as — ‘(A) the excess of — ‘(i) the number of qualified employees employed by the employer during the taxable year, over ‘(ii) 10, bears to ‘(B) 15. ‘(2) Credit not allowed with respect to certain highly compensated employees. — No credit shall be allowed under subsection (a) with respect to qualified employee health coverage expenses paid or incurred with respect to any employee for any taxable year if the aggregate compensation paid by the employer to such employee during such taxable year exceeds $80,000.”

How is that hope and change working out for you? Now, there’s another passage, I’m not going to read nearly as much of it. There is a tax on those without insurance. Section 59(b), page 297 out of 1,990 pages, by the way, “Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Coverage. ‘(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of– ‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over ‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer. (b) limitations — tax limited to average premium. In general, the tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the applicable national average premium for such taxable year.”

What it all adds up to here is there’s going to be a tax if you don’t go out and get insurance, two-and-a-half percent. You want to hear some of the other taxes in this? The Americans for Tax Reform has gone through the bill and they got a comprehensive list of taxes in Pelosi’s debacle. “Employer Mandate Excise Tax (Page 275): If an employer does not pay 72.5 percent of a single employee’s health premium (65 percent of a family employee), the employer must pay an excise tax equal to 8 percent of average wages. Individual Mandate Surtax (Page 296): If an individual fails to obtain qualifying coverage, he must pay an income surtax equal to the lesser of 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) or the average premium. Medicine Cabinet Tax (Page 324): Non-prescription medications would no longer be able to be purchased from health savings accounts (HSAs), flexible spending accounts (FSAs), or health reimbursement arrangements (HRAs). Insulin excepted. Increased Additional Tax on Non-Qualified HSA Distributions (Page 326): Non-qualified distributions from HSAs would face an additional tax of 20 percent (current law is 10 percent). This disadvantages HSAs relative to other tax-free accounts (e.g. IRAs, 401(k)s, 529 plans, etc.)”

“Denial of Tax Deduction for Employer Health Plans Coordinating with Medicare Part D,” we just covered that one. “Surtax on Individuals and Small Businesses (Page 336): Imposes an income surtax of 5.4 percent on MAGI over $500,000 ($1 million married filing jointly).” He just said it was 1.5 percent, Clyburn did, but the Americans for Tax Reform say 5.4%, an income surtax of 5.4% on individuals over 500 grand and couples over a million. “This would raise the top marginal tax rate in 2011 from 39.6 percent under current law to 45 percent — a new effective top rate.”
That’s before you start paying state taxes, Social Security, and Medicare, 5.4 percent, not 1.5. Hmm. “Codification of the ‘Economic Substance Doctrine’ (Page 349): Empowers the IRS to disallow a perfectly legal tax deduction or other tax relief merely because the IRS deems that the motive of the taxpayer was not primarily business-related.”

Want me to read that to you again? Page 349, “Economic Substance Doctrine empowers the IRS to disallow a perfectly legal tax deduction or other tax relief merely because the IRS deems that the motive of the taxpayer was not primarily business-related.” Welcome to the Soviet Union. I mean this is just — and, you know what? The thing is, this is going to get out, people are going to hear about this, and there’s going to be the same reaction to this that there was to H.R. 3200, only it’s going to be worse. (interruption) What, Snerdley, what? No. You do not have to provide motive. All they have to do is say your motive wasn’t any good. You’re not going to get a chance to argue with them here. “Empowers the IRS to disallow a perfectly legal tax deduction because the IRS deems the motive of the taxpayer was not primarily business related.” (interruption) What did you say, H.R.? Well, I guess you could call it that, a health care hate crime, because they’re taxing you, denying a deduction because of the way you think, is what motive is. Now, it’s a good question. Snerdley says, “How can they impugn your motive?” They’re liberals! They’re dictators. They’re not small-D democrats. How can they dictate what little kids are forced to sing in school? Because they can. How can they dictate what you think? They’re in the process of doing it now. They are statists. They are central planners. They are deniers of freedom and liberty. It’s all through this.

I also am appalled by the pre-existing conditions. If you can’t really cover people, get out of the business. I saw the same nonsense in homeowners. Hello. Like anyone needs a company that is so broke they can only insure a small geographical area. Either insure or don’t. But quit mucking things up for people.

AnninCa

So,according to your brilliant analysis, we should be able to skip paying for insurance until we get sick, then sign up for a plan and demand they pay for it? Should I also be able to buy a life insurance policy after someone dies, and then demand they pay out the claim? How about getting a homeowners policy after my roof blows off, then canceliong after the new roof is paid for until something else comes up that I need them to pay for?

You really are dumber than a bag of hammers aren’t you? Let me help you with the answer: Yes, you are.

I also am appalled by the pre-existing conditions. If you can’t really cover people, get out of the business. I saw the same nonsense in homeowners. Hello. Like anyone needs a company that is so broke they can only insure a small geographical area. Either insure or don’t. But quit mucking things up for people.

So,according to your brilliant analysis, we should be able to skip paying for insurance until we get sick, then sign up for a plan and demand they pay for it? Should I also be able to buy a life insurance policy after someone dies, and then demand they pay out the claim? How about getting a homeowners policy after my roof blows off, then canceliong after the new roof is paid for until something else comes up that I need them to pay for?

You really are dumber than a bag of hammers aren’t you? Let me help you with the answer: Yes, you are.

karenhasfreedom on October 29, 2009 at 6:21 PM

Do you have a link for that? Thanks.

premium (65 percent of a family employee), the employer must pay an excise tax equal to 8 percent of average wages. Individual Mandate Surtax (Page 296): If an individual fails to obtain qualifying coverage, he must pay an income surtax equal to the lesser of 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) or the average premium.

OK, I employ my niece, and she is “part time”. Last year her W2 was around 15K for the year. If I were to provide insurance for her, her husband, and their 3 kids, my premium would be about $1400 per month according to the policy I just renewed for the year. The part that I did not copy to paste here, just before the section I did, said an employer must cover 65% of the monthly premium for the employee and family.

According to my math, 8% of 15K is way cheaper than 65% of a monthly $1400 premium. The monthly premium to cover her and the family is more than I pay her in a month.

This is insanity.

Also, where in the constitution does it say that the government can tell me that I have to offer health insurance to my employees?

I honestly don’t think anyone should be beaten up on healthcare reform.

Purging people over nonsense stuff isn’t OK and, in fact, illegal to me. Insure them? Fine. But you do NOT get to take premiums and then kick them off in the middle of treatment.

The insurance industry will never get my support after resorting to that kind of bad business tactic.

I also am appalled by the pre-existing conditions.
AnninCA

There is so much wrong with these quotes I hardly know where to start.

First of all, I stand in awe of your ability to forgive these idiots for the evil they are about to do. They haven’t even passed the bill yet and you are already asking everyone to forgive them?

Second. Do you know what pre-conditions are? They are the part where you can’t call up blue shield, 5 minutes after a heart attack and receive a $50,000 surgery the next day. Which is probably more than you will spend on your premiums, since you A: haven’t started paying yet, and B: will quit coverage as soon as they write the check. Such a deal! One month of $300 premiums in exchange for open heart surgery. It’s almost FREE!!!!

Third: You hear stories about all these people being dropped in the middle of treatment. How often does that actually happen for no reason? Hmm? Numbers? Was it experimental? Were they warned it wouldn’t be paid for but went ahead anyway? Never happened to anyone I know of. I’ve never even heard an anecdote second hand, unless you count the “news.”

COLLINS: So what you’re saying is that even though it’s under the $900 billion price tag, the president was hoping for that, there could be more costs that would be worked in later before final passage of this? Are you talking about the taxes then that will be put on the wealthy Americans?

CNN is so in the tank.

Yup, that leaped out and grabbed me too. Pathetic.

And the “Native American Health and Wellness Foundation” sounds like a real hoot. Maybe they can get some tips from the BIA, huh?

I thought Obama wanted it to be deficit-neutral?

faraway on October 29, 2009 at 3:20 PM

All this talk of “deficit neutral” is such a crock of sh!t. I challenge anyone here to think of a government program of this magnitude that has come in on (or under) budget.

Besides, we should be talking about shrinking government, not growing it (“deficit neutral” or not).

That is NOT my idea of honest. Then, to top it off, they label detractors anti-American. How do people actually side with these people?

It was a strong and honest effort.

And you know this, how?

There is no way of knowing whether any of this will work.

When you embark on a large endeavor, it’s a good idea to put together a pilot program, in order to work out the kinks.

There’s none of that here and that’s because Democrat scum know that it will be a complete disaster from the word go.

But once they pass this pile of crap, they know there’s no going back and we will be saddled with Obama’s plan for all eternity.

CNN is so in the tank.

mankai on October 29, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Actually it seems lately that CNN is trying a little harder to strike a balance and move a little more to the right. Maybe I’m just being optimistic, but I think they might be looking at FOX’s ratings, then looking at their own, and thinking, “Hmmmm, maybe FOX is onto something here.”

I hold out no such hope for MSNBC though.