Pence: Pelosi bill the “freight train of big government”

posted at 2:55 pm on October 29, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Give Mike Pence credit for turning a phrase. The “freight train of big government” perfectly encapsulates not just the specific Pelosi bill, but the entire idea of having the federal government dictate an overhaul of the health-care system in the first place. Everything in this 1900-page bill relates to federal diktats rather than consumer choice.

HEIDI COLLINS: Let’s get the Republican reaction to the House Democratic health care proposal that we just heard about. Live from the steps of the Capitol there, Indiana Congressman Mike Pence, is on Capitol Hill for us for more from his perspective and his party’s perspective. You heard the announcement coming from Nancy Pelosi and from Steny Hoyer. Right out of the gate, what are the concerns of the Republican party, because obviously we didn’t see any Republicans there today?

REP. MIKE PENCE: No, you didn’t, Heidi. Thanks for having us on. I was struck by the tone of the press conference. It seemed more like a victory lap after a bill is passed than when one is introduced. But sometimes it’s a good idea to take a victory lap if you’re not sure you’re going to make it to the finish line. I expect Democrats really understand that this $900 billion bill – that could go over a trillion dollars if they add in their fix for the so-called ‘doughnut hole’ or if they added back in the ‘doc fix’ which is a quarter of a trillion dollars over the next ten years – this could go well beyond the president’s threshold number, and it seemed like this is more about building momentum behind what I think the American people really rejected this summer.

This is just another version now lurching out of the back rooms after weeks of closed door negotiations. It just looks like another freight train of big government with more taxes, more mandates and more spending, and that’s not what the American people want in health care reform.

COLLINS: So what you’re saying is that even though it’s under the $900 billion price tag, the president was hoping for that, there could be more costs that would be worked in later before final passage of this? Are you talking about the taxes then that will be put on the wealthy Americans?

REP. PENCE: We’re digging into it just like you are at CNN right now. It’s 2,000 pages long. It includes the word ‘shall’ 3,425 times. This really is a government takeover of health care in America. As the American people dig into this, it will become more obvious that this is a massive new bureaucracy. The taxes you talk about, at least what’s being reported in the news, the so-called surtax, half of that surtax will fall on small business owners filing as individuals in this country.

So it appears for all of the world like a massive government run insurance plan paid for with a freight train of mandates and taxes and bureaucracy, and Republicans are going to continue to raise the curtain on our plan. We really believe that the American people deserve health care reform that allows them to purchase health insurance across state lines, does medical malpractice reform.

COLLINS: There will be some that say, as reported earlier, you know Democrats don’t think they need the Republican support on this.

REP. PENCE: Well, you know, there’s a minority of Republicans in Congress and it’s technically true, but I always tell people a minority in Congress plus the American people equals a majority. The Democrats may be able to pass this government-run insurance plan, that will lead to a government takeover without Republicans, but they can’t pass it without the American people.

I think when the American people get a look at this massive bill – I got to say one positive thing, Heidi, Republicans and a few Democrats were fighting to get at least a 72-hour waiting period on this bill and it looks like we have gotten that. We are going to get at least a week to look at this 2,000-page bill. That’s still going to be tough to digest.

COLLINS: What about the pre-existing condition idea? That is also in there.

REP. PENCE: Yeah. You know what? That’s something that I think could be a part of bipartisan consensus. My own family had to go on a state guarantee fund in Indiana when I lost my job about 15 years ago and my wife was pregnant. We can work together in a way that’s fiscally responsible to deal with pre-existing conditions, but a massive new government-run insurance plan paid for with hundreds of billions of dollars in higher taxes is not the answer.

COLLINS: Everyone is going to be looking at it very, very closely. It’s many pages long. We wanted to make sure that we give equal time here the best that we can. Representative Mike Pence, Republican from Indiana. Thanks so very much for your time.

Of course, the better analogy is Amtrak rather than freight trains, which loses $32 per passenger now. They haven’t been able to reform Amtrak despite knowing about the problem for decades. For that matter, the US Postal Service still works, too.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Or, more appropriately, Amtrak.

Heh. Nice Ed.

portlandon on October 29, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Chew. Chew.

Shy Guy on October 29, 2009 at 2:58 PM

Doughnut hole! Mmmmmmmmmmmmm…………………

Shy Guy on October 29, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Wow…..As far as I can tell, it looks like the battle lines for the US are between the producing class and the entitlement class.

Unfortunately, the entitlement class is growing faster than the producing class.

I wonder if the powers at be honestly recognize they are on a path to destroy the American Dream.

saiga on October 29, 2009 at 3:02 PM

I guess no Repubs got an invitation to the invitation only “press conference”.

d1carter on October 29, 2009 at 3:03 PM

good post.

ThackerAgency on October 29, 2009 at 3:04 PM

COLLINS: So what you’re saying is that even though it’s under the $900 billion price tag, the president was hoping for that, there could be more costs that would be worked in later before final passage of this? Are you talking about the taxes then that will be put on the wealthy Americans?

CNN is so in the tank.

mankai on October 29, 2009 at 3:04 PM

COLLINS: …Are you talking about the taxes then that will be put on the wealthy Americans?

Liberals have no idea how economies work… “tax the rich” just sounds good, so they just toss it out to fool the other ignorant (and greedy) Obamabots in their audiences.

mankai on October 29, 2009 at 3:07 PM

I think the term is appropriate. I’m terribly disappointed, but not surprised, by the outcome. I remain committed to improving healthcare options in our country. I remain “liberal” in that the business of insurance has, in fact, become antagonistic to real people. Purging people over nonsense stuff isn’t OK and, in fact, illegal to me. Insure them? Fine. But you do NOT get to take premiums and then kick them off in the middle of treatment.

The insurance industry will never get my support after resorting to that kind of bad business tactic.

I also am appalled by the pre-existing conditions. If you can’t really cover people, get out of the business. I saw the same nonsense in homeowners. Hello. Like anyone needs a company that is so broke they can only insure a small geographical area. Either insure or don’t. But quit mucking things up for people.

Having said that? This bill is really not the ticket, for anyone.

About the only people who will benefit is probably my little non-profit group. I suspect we’ll end our insurance plan, which is astronomical right now. We’ll give the employees the % penalty tax and consider ourselves lucky. The employees will not like it.

AnninCA on October 29, 2009 at 3:07 PM

mankai on October 29, 2009 at 3:07 PM

you aren’t kidding about that.. no clue on economics.

But then again you ask them why they have a job with healthcare, and their answer… I work and it is none of your business what I do. LOL!

upinak on October 29, 2009 at 3:10 PM

I wonder if the powers at be honestly recognize they are on a path to destroy the American Dream.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6967

oldfiveanddimer on October 29, 2009 at 3:13 PM

REP. PENCE: Well, you know, there’s a minority of Republicans in Congress and it’s technically true, but I always tell people a minority in Congress plus the American people equals a majority. The Democrats may be able to pass this government-run insurance plan, that will lead to a government takeover without Republicans, but they can’t pass it without the American people.

Dems- ignore this advice at your own political peril.

journeyintothewhirlwind on October 29, 2009 at 3:14 PM

I wonder if the powers at be honestly recognize they are on a path to destroy the American Dream.

saiga on October 29, 2009 at 3:02 PM

They will never destroy the American Dream. But they are putting us on the path to a very… vigorous debate.

bitsy on October 29, 2009 at 3:19 PM

COLLINS: So what you’re saying is that even though it’s under the $900 billion price tag, the president was hoping for that

I thought Obama wanted it to be deficit-neutral?

faraway on October 29, 2009 at 3:20 PM

I thought Obama wanted it to be deficit-neutral?

faraway on October 29, 2009 at 3:20 PM

Depends on what the definition of is neutral is.

BobMbx on October 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM

I wish he hadn’t used the term “freight train”. I’m worried that Anita Dunn is going to pull up in one and ask me to get aboard.

/ in case any leftist fools copy this comment onto their “blogs”

faraway on October 29, 2009 at 3:27 PM

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6967

oldfiveanddimer on October 29, 2009 at 3:13 PM

I prefer the pie chart.

Shy Guy on October 29, 2009 at 3:27 PM

Of course, the better analogy is Amtrak Taggart Transcontinental rather than freight trains

FIFY

*shrug*

Who is John Galt?

turfmann on October 29, 2009 at 3:27 PM

They will never destroy the American Dream. But they are putting us on the path to a very… vigorous debate.

bitsy on October 29, 2009 at 3:19 PM

so true, Bitsy. :)

I love your commensense.

AnninCA on October 29, 2009 at 3:27 PM

COLLINS: So what you’re saying is that even though it’s under the $900 billion price tag, the president was hoping for that

I thought Obama wanted it to be deficit-neutral?

faraway on October 29, 2009 at 3:20 PM

“And let me be very clear about this, I have always said I would sign any bill that is deficit-neutral only taxes the rich let’s you keep your own health insurance

doesn’t fund abortion

doesn’t cover illegals is under $1 trillion dollars…”

Don’t you understand the game yet? What he said ten minutes ago has NO bearing on what he will say or do now. Same way what he says or does now has no bearing on where he will stand five minutes from now.

Him doing it is one thing. Us letting him get away with it is the real problem!

UnderstandingisPower on October 29, 2009 at 3:27 PM

“Freight train of big government”

Or, The Little Engine That Could.

I think I can, I think I can, I think I can…

The Ugly American on October 29, 2009 at 3:28 PM

The Democrats may be able to pass this government-run insurance plan, that will lead to a government takeover without Republicans, but they can’t pass it without the American people.

right on right on right on!

cmsinaz on October 29, 2009 at 3:29 PM

Pelosi says – “Of course you can’t read it… Just vote and shut the eff up…”

Kuffar on October 29, 2009 at 3:29 PM

Ed:

You should add Pence’s interview with Countessa Brewer of MSNBC. It’s interesting in that Brewer kept trying to bait Pence about why all Americans can’t have the federal plan that Pence and all other federal employees have available to them. At first glance, it sounded like one of the famous townhall-meeting criticisms, but, in truth, it opened the door for Pence to throw it back in her face by saying that it would be prohibitively expensive to do so, but, more important, Pelosi’s bill in no way resembles the federal plan.

I will give Pence some credit because he did manage to emphasize that the federal plan is considered fairly desirable because those employees have so much choice. The conversation gave Pence to hammer home a point about interstate competition, which, unfortunately, sailed right over Brewer’s head–as it does with virtually all liberals.

And so it goes.

BuckeyeSam on October 29, 2009 at 3:30 PM

AnninCA on October 29, 2009 at 3:27 PM

Thanks! It doesn’t happen often, but I have my moments.

bitsy on October 29, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Well, the House still went from some grand idea of a grand public option down to a more reasonable effort.

I personally think Reid does not have the votes.

I think what’s a bit discouraging is that the compromise bill will be a bit like some of the bills over slavery that turned out to be ridiculous.

That’s what happens when Congress is determined to solve a problem that is not yet quite ripe.

BUT…….I personally love Democracy. We’ll survive this. This is how we roll.

AnninCA on October 29, 2009 at 3:36 PM

COLLINS: So what you’re saying is that even though it’s under the $900 billion price tag, the president was hoping for that, there could be more costs that would be worked in later before final passage of this? Are you talking about the taxes then that will be put on the wealthy Americans?

That’s just the sort of strong, independent journalism that has catapulted CNN to #4.

Jim Treacher on October 29, 2009 at 3:37 PM

The plan will not add to our deficit. The middle-class will realize greater security, not higher taxes. And if we are able to slow the growth of health care costs by just one-tenth of one percent each year, it will actually reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the long term.

Obama address to Congress

faraway on October 29, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Mandated
Employer
Subsidized
Socialism

No matter how it’s dressed up, it will be a MESS!

drfredc on October 29, 2009 at 3:39 PM

faraway on October 29, 2009 at 3:27 PM

It will be a Peace Train, man, a Peace Train.

Brat on October 29, 2009 at 3:40 PM

Wow…..As far as I can tell, it looks like the battle lines for the US are between the producing class and the entitlementmooch and leech class.

saiga on October 29, 2009 at 3:02 PM

There, FIFY.

Dave R. on October 29, 2009 at 3:41 PM

This isn’t the “freight train of big government,” this is a nuclear bomb being dropped on our economy, not to mention our freedoms and liberties.

This bill must not pass in any form.

Dave R. on October 29, 2009 at 3:43 PM

I honestly don’t think anyone should be beaten up on healthcare reform.

It was a strong and honest effort. I think they got going down the wrong path, but that’s as much a matter of wrong-headed processes. It’s the same thing that tripped Bush up over Katrina.

Congress needs to take a hard look at its own inner workings.

Proposals, for example, should be run through a CBO type matrix BEFORE hitting the public airways.

Ditto for implementation analysis. It’s not like people can’t tell Congress what is messy and what isn’t. It’s not like nobody knew that we were sitting ducks for a Katrina deal.

Americans are not stupid.

Neither are people who work for the government. They do know.

But what seems to be outdated is the process.

And no, I don’t mean some constitutional takeover deal.

Just how the House and the Senate do business.

AnninCA on October 29, 2009 at 3:43 PM

Brat on October 29, 2009 at 3:40 PM

Now I’m going to have Cat Steven’s song in my head the rest of the day. Kudos to Pence. Jimbo03 to tell us that this plan is great in 5…4…3…

kingsjester on October 29, 2009 at 3:45 PM

I noticed that the “end of life counseling” is back in the house bill. The fact is that unless you are a left wing, parasitic Obama liberal this government couldn’t care less what you think or want. About half of the citizens have no effective representation and if you want it back you had better be ready fight and sacrifice. Your only other option is to survive and kowtow to this new Marxist/fascist government. It’s a sad time for this once great Republic.

rplat on October 29, 2009 at 3:45 PM

Hey peeps,

I am a voracious reader, but 1900 pages of deliberately convoluted legalese is just a bridge too far. We need a group of us to divvy up the bill(its available in pdf) and each scour their piece for the inevitable infractions against life, liberty and the American way.

I know its alot to ask, and many simply cannot make the commitment for asundry understandable reasons, but I can take a chunk and report back my findings. Can anyone else pitch-in?

If so i’ve just created a throw-away email addy(archimedes65@gmail.com) if your interested in helping out and sharing the results here on HA so we can spread the data
to adequately arm our active resistence to it, leave a note and we’ll pitch in and get’er done.

Thanx!

Archimedes on October 29, 2009 at 4:00 PM

That’s what happens when Congress is determined to solve a problem that is not yet quite ripe.

That they created and that they don’t have the skill set, knowledge, intelligence, ethics or desire to fix in the first place.

Epic failure. Worse Congress ever.

NoDonkey on October 29, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Around page 1600, the bill talks about all the grant and scholarship money available for those entering the health care industry. Even on-line opportunities! I’m signing up to be a brain surgeon immediately! If this pig passes, there will be plenty of spots in medicine since all the doctors will be leaving…

mimi1220 on October 29, 2009 at 4:03 PM

It was a strong and honest effort. I think they got going down the wrong path, but that’s as much a matter of wrong-headed processes. It’s the same thing that tripped Bush up over Katrina.

AnninCA on October 29, 2009 at 3:43 PM

HONEST effort?!?!?!?!? Yeah, not allowing Republicans in on meetings and saying that the GOP has no alternatives — except “Die Quickly” — that’s textbook honesty, right?

And I suspect you’d say incompetence on the State and Local levels were in no way a factor in Katrina.

DOOF on October 29, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Archimedes on October 29, 2009 at 4:00 PM

along your lines:

Break it apart would be nice to see that site take off.

batterup on October 29, 2009 at 4:07 PM

What a snotty little reporter. I like Pence, the man has some common sense.

Terrye on October 29, 2009 at 4:09 PM

AnninCA:

I don’t think there was anything honest about this effort. Really, I don’t.

Terrye on October 29, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Get ready for a 945 page addendum to the bill added at 3:45am the day of the vote.

“Just shut the eff up and vote…”

Kuffar on October 29, 2009 at 4:12 PM

CNN is so in the tank.

mankai on October 29, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Actually it seems lately that CNN is trying a little harder to strike a balance and move a little more to the right. Maybe I’m just being optimistic, but I think they might be looking at FOX’s ratings, then looking at their own, and thinking, “Hmmmm, maybe FOX is onto something here.”

I hold out no such hope for MSNBC though.

UltimateBob on October 29, 2009 at 4:27 PM

It was a strong and honest effort.

And you know this, how?

There is no way of knowing whether any of this will work.

When you embark on a large endeavor, it’s a good idea to put together a pilot program, in order to work out the kinks.

There’s none of that here and that’s because Democrat scum know that it will be a complete disaster from the word go.

But once they pass this pile of crap, they know there’s no going back and we will be saddled with Obama’s plan for all eternity.

NoDonkey on October 29, 2009 at 4:32 PM

This has not been an honest effort from day 1. Obama has lied time and again over the various details including, but not limited to: federal funding of abortion, government butting out insurance companies through increased “competition”, costs (see “deficit neutral”), taxation, etc.

That is NOT my idea of honest. Then, to top it off, they label detractors anti-American. How do people actually side with these people?

search4truth on October 29, 2009 at 4:32 PM

I thought Obama wanted it to be deficit-neutral?

faraway on October 29, 2009 at 3:20 PM

All this talk of “deficit neutral” is such a crock of sh!t. I challenge anyone here to think of a government program of this magnitude that has come in on (or under) budget.

Besides, we should be talking about shrinking government, not growing it (“deficit neutral” or not).

UltimateBob on October 29, 2009 at 4:38 PM

I got a robo call from Health Care for American Now today. Must be desparate if they’re calling folks in rural West TN. I wish they would show up in person; I would love to ask how much HCAN is willing to chip in to pay for this GIANT bill!

TN Mom on October 29, 2009 at 4:39 PM

219 instances of the word “regulation” in 1990 pages. 52 instances of the word “foundation”. 100 instances of the word “wellness”.

And the “Native American Health and Wellness Foundation” sounds like a real hoot. Maybe they can get some tips from the BIA, huh?

mojo on October 29, 2009 at 4:44 PM

“Train” refers to the people who blocked the under ground railroad that helped black slaves. Pence is RACIST!

SouthernGent on October 29, 2009 at 4:51 PM

OT: Beck says he’s going to take down the “Blue Curtain” tonight.

davidk on October 29, 2009 at 5:01 PM

COLLINS: So what you’re saying is that even though it’s under the $900 billion price tag, the president was hoping for that, there could be more costs that would be worked in later before final passage of this? Are you talking about the taxes then that will be put on the wealthy Americans?

CNN is so in the tank.

Yup, that leaped out and grabbed me too. Pathetic.

WitchDoctor on October 29, 2009 at 5:07 PM

I honestly don’t think anyone should be beaten up on healthcare reform.

Purging people over nonsense stuff isn’t OK and, in fact, illegal to me. Insure them? Fine. But you do NOT get to take premiums and then kick them off in the middle of treatment.

The insurance industry will never get my support after resorting to that kind of bad business tactic.

I also am appalled by the pre-existing conditions.
AnninCA

There is so much wrong with these quotes I hardly know where to start.

First of all, I stand in awe of your ability to forgive these idiots for the evil they are about to do. They haven’t even passed the bill yet and you are already asking everyone to forgive them?

Second. Do you know what pre-conditions are? They are the part where you can’t call up blue shield, 5 minutes after a heart attack and receive a $50,000 surgery the next day. Which is probably more than you will spend on your premiums, since you A: haven’t started paying yet, and B: will quit coverage as soon as they write the check. Such a deal! One month of $300 premiums in exchange for open heart surgery. It’s almost FREE!!!!

Third: You hear stories about all these people being dropped in the middle of treatment. How often does that actually happen for no reason? Hmm? Numbers? Was it experimental? Were they warned it wouldn’t be paid for but went ahead anyway? Never happened to anyone I know of. I’ve never even heard an anecdote second hand, unless you count the “news.”

WitchDoctor on October 29, 2009 at 5:17 PM

As a hoosier, I’m very proud of Pence. He’s got a future in my party. The conservative party…Prolly not the party of Newt & Goober Graham though…

Tim Zank on October 29, 2009 at 5:59 PM

Here is part of the bill:

premium (65 percent of a family employee), the employer must pay an excise tax equal to 8 percent of average wages. Individual Mandate Surtax (Page 296): If an individual fails to obtain qualifying coverage, he must pay an income surtax equal to the lesser of 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) or the average premium.

OK, I employ my niece, and she is “part time”. Last year her W2 was around 15K for the year. If I were to provide insurance for her, her husband, and their 3 kids, my premium would be about $1400 per month according to the policy I just renewed for the year. The part that I did not copy to paste here, just before the section I did, said an employer must cover 65% of the monthly premium for the employee and family.

According to my math, 8% of 15K is way cheaper than 65% of a monthly $1400 premium. The monthly premium to cover her and the family is more than I pay her in a month.

This is insanity.

Also, where in the constitution does it say that the government can tell me that I have to offer health insurance to my employees?

karenhasfreedom on October 29, 2009 at 6:21 PM

karenhasfreedom on October 29, 2009 at 6:21 PM

Do you have a link for that? Thanks.

lovingmyUSA on October 29, 2009 at 6:31 PM

I also am appalled by the pre-existing conditions. If you can’t really cover people, get out of the business. I saw the same nonsense in homeowners. Hello. Like anyone needs a company that is so broke they can only insure a small geographical area. Either insure or don’t. But quit mucking things up for people.

So,according to your brilliant analysis, we should be able to skip paying for insurance until we get sick, then sign up for a plan and demand they pay for it? Should I also be able to buy a life insurance policy after someone dies, and then demand they pay out the claim? How about getting a homeowners policy after my roof blows off, then canceliong after the new roof is paid for until something else comes up that I need them to pay for?

You really are dumber than a bag of hammers aren’t you? Let me help you with the answer: Yes, you are.

xblade on October 29, 2009 at 6:44 PM

I also am appalled by the pre-existing conditions. If you can’t really cover people, get out of the business. I saw the same nonsense in homeowners. Hello. Like anyone needs a company that is so broke they can only insure a small geographical area. Either insure or don’t. But quit mucking things up for people.

AnninCa

So,according to your brilliant analysis, we should be able to skip paying for insurance until we get sick, then sign up for a plan and demand they pay for it? Should I also be able to buy a life insurance policy after someone dies, and then demand they pay out the claim? How about getting a homeowners policy after my roof blows off, then canceliong after the new roof is paid for until something else comes up that I need them to pay for?

You really are dumber than a bag of hammers aren’t you? Let me help you with the answer: Yes, you are.

xblade on October 29, 2009 at 6:45 PM

I am a member of Rush 24/7. He was reading part of the bill today, and commenting on that. You have to have a password to get into the member section, but here is the link:

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_102909/content/01125112.member.html

And hopefully Rush forgives me and the mods here don’t think I am doing a copyright thingie: but here is the text from the link above

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Now, from the new House bill, I’ve got a couple of passages from it here, the thing Pelosi announced today. I want to read it to you just to show you what we’re going to be dealing with. Now, as I go through this section that I’m going to read part of, it looks like small businesses are going to lose their tax breaks for health coverage. Right now small business gets a tax break for providing health coverage. It looks like it’s going to be phased out in two years. But it’s hard to tell from the damn convoluted language.

“Section 45: Small Business Employee Health Coverage Credit. For purposes of section 38, in the case of a qualified small employer, the small business employee health coverage credit determined under this section for the taxable year is an amount equal to the applicable percentage of the qualified employee health coverage expenses of such employer for such taxable year. For purposes of this section, the applicable percentage is 50 percent. In the case of an employer whose average annual employee compensation for the taxable year exceeds $20,000, the percentage specified in paragraph (1) shall be reduced by a number of percentage points which bears the same ratio to 50 as such excess bears to $20,000.” Are you with me?

“Phaseout based on employer size. In the case of an employer who employs more than 10 qualified employees –” what the? What is a qualified employee? Jeez. Good Lord. “In the case of an employer who employs more than 10 qualified employess during the taxable year, the credit determined under subsection (a) shall be reduced by an amount which bears the same ratio to the amount of such credit (determined without regard to this paragraph and after the application of the other provisions of this section) as — ‘(A) the excess of — ‘(i) the number of qualified employees employed by the employer during the taxable year, over ‘(ii) 10, bears to ‘(B) 15. ‘(2) Credit not allowed with respect to certain highly compensated employees. — No credit shall be allowed under subsection (a) with respect to qualified employee health coverage expenses paid or incurred with respect to any employee for any taxable year if the aggregate compensation paid by the employer to such employee during such taxable year exceeds $80,000.”

How is that hope and change working out for you? Now, there’s another passage, I’m not going to read nearly as much of it. There is a tax on those without insurance. Section 59(b), page 297 out of 1,990 pages, by the way, “Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Coverage. ‘(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of– ‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over ‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer. (b) limitations — tax limited to average premium. In general, the tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the applicable national average premium for such taxable year.”

What it all adds up to here is there’s going to be a tax if you don’t go out and get insurance, two-and-a-half percent. You want to hear some of the other taxes in this? The Americans for Tax Reform has gone through the bill and they got a comprehensive list of taxes in Pelosi’s debacle. “Employer Mandate Excise Tax (Page 275): If an employer does not pay 72.5 percent of a single employee’s health premium (65 percent of a family employee), the employer must pay an excise tax equal to 8 percent of average wages. Individual Mandate Surtax (Page 296): If an individual fails to obtain qualifying coverage, he must pay an income surtax equal to the lesser of 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) or the average premium. Medicine Cabinet Tax (Page 324): Non-prescription medications would no longer be able to be purchased from health savings accounts (HSAs), flexible spending accounts (FSAs), or health reimbursement arrangements (HRAs). Insulin excepted. Increased Additional Tax on Non-Qualified HSA Distributions (Page 326): Non-qualified distributions from HSAs would face an additional tax of 20 percent (current law is 10 percent). This disadvantages HSAs relative to other tax-free accounts (e.g. IRAs, 401(k)s, 529 plans, etc.)”

“Denial of Tax Deduction for Employer Health Plans Coordinating with Medicare Part D,” we just covered that one. “Surtax on Individuals and Small Businesses (Page 336): Imposes an income surtax of 5.4 percent on MAGI over $500,000 ($1 million married filing jointly).” He just said it was 1.5 percent, Clyburn did, but the Americans for Tax Reform say 5.4%, an income surtax of 5.4% on individuals over 500 grand and couples over a million. “This would raise the top marginal tax rate in 2011 from 39.6 percent under current law to 45 percent — a new effective top rate.”
That’s before you start paying state taxes, Social Security, and Medicare, 5.4 percent, not 1.5. Hmm. “Codification of the ‘Economic Substance Doctrine’ (Page 349): Empowers the IRS to disallow a perfectly legal tax deduction or other tax relief merely because the IRS deems that the motive of the taxpayer was not primarily business-related.”

Want me to read that to you again? Page 349, “Economic Substance Doctrine empowers the IRS to disallow a perfectly legal tax deduction or other tax relief merely because the IRS deems that the motive of the taxpayer was not primarily business-related.” Welcome to the Soviet Union. I mean this is just — and, you know what? The thing is, this is going to get out, people are going to hear about this, and there’s going to be the same reaction to this that there was to H.R. 3200, only it’s going to be worse. (interruption) What, Snerdley, what? No. You do not have to provide motive. All they have to do is say your motive wasn’t any good. You’re not going to get a chance to argue with them here. “Empowers the IRS to disallow a perfectly legal tax deduction because the IRS deems the motive of the taxpayer was not primarily business related.” (interruption) What did you say, H.R.? Well, I guess you could call it that, a health care hate crime, because they’re taxing you, denying a deduction because of the way you think, is what motive is. Now, it’s a good question. Snerdley says, “How can they impugn your motive?” They’re liberals! They’re dictators. They’re not small-D democrats. How can they dictate what little kids are forced to sing in school? Because they can. How can they dictate what you think? They’re in the process of doing it now. They are statists. They are central planners. They are deniers of freedom and liberty. It’s all through this.

karenhasfreedom on October 29, 2009 at 6:46 PM

According to my math, 8% of 15K is way cheaper than 65% of a monthly $1400 premium. The monthly premium to cover her and the family is more than I pay her in a month.

karenhasfreedom

And that’s not all….that is likely considered a “cadillac plan”. That means you have to pay a penalty for providing your employees with a decent insurance plan.

xblade on October 29, 2009 at 6:50 PM

This is no “honest” effort. It’s full of crap. No one will get adequate or good health care under it! Everyone will certainly be in the same boat (well except for our elite “leaders” who will continue to have their own little expensive as hell plan) – trying to get an appointment to get into a doctor before they die.

If only our Congress would be honest. Honest about covering illegals, honest about forcing taxpayers to fund abortions, honest about doctors leaving the profession in droves under their plan and honest about not only the financial costs but the human costs. Kiss your grandparents goodbye AnninCA.

katablog.com on October 29, 2009 at 7:10 PM

Heidi and Kyra Phillips are hot…I don’t care what kind of scumbag lefties they are.

LtE126 on October 29, 2009 at 7:11 PM

Did anyone get to the part in the Democrats Freight Train that mentions tort reform?

/sarc

TN Mom on October 29, 2009 at 7:25 PM

Did anyone get to the part in the Democrats Freight Train that mentions tort reform?

/sarc

TN Mom on October 29, 2009 at 7:25 PM

I think that train left the station months ago. :)

Just think, instead of doing the easy stuff that fixes 80% of the problem, they nuke the whole system. Sigh.

karenhasfreedom on October 29, 2009 at 8:04 PM

It’s the same thing that tripped Bush up over Katrina.

AnninCA on October 29, 2009 at 3:43 PM

No. What ‘tripped’ Bush up over Katrina was a little concept called federalism. That and rule of law. But, I may be expecting too much of one to understand this who would also type:

BUT…….I personally love Democracy. We’ll survive this. This is how we roll.

AnninCA on October 29, 2009 at 3:36 PM

Democracy, huh? That people think this country is a democracy is precisely a huge part of the problem….on several levels.

anuts on October 30, 2009 at 4:29 AM