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Cash for Clunkers meets housing bubble

posted at 2:20 pm on October 27, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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In today’s Washington Post, Simon Johnson and James Kwak parse the notion of extending the home-buyer tax credit as economic stimulus and call it “a bad idea.”  In the first place, home prices do not need any more artificial support from government as they still have not returned to a normal valuation after the burst of the housing bubble.  Even if they had, it would mainly subsidize purchases that would have been made anyway, accelerating them somewhat by stealing them from the near future.

Sound familiar?  It’s like a marriage between the CR-fired housing bubble and Cash for Clunkers:

The main argument for the tax credit is that it stimulates the economy and stabilizes the housing market. Seen purely as a stimulus, the tax credit is highly inefficient. The National Association of Realtors claims that the credit created 350,000 new sales; the Calculated Risk blog calculates that this means the government is paying $43,000 for every extra house sold (since most sales would have happened anyway). According to the Wall Street Journal, Goldman Sachs estimates 200,000 new sales, implying a cost of $80,000 per marginal sale.

Even at a price of $43,000, what are we getting? Given that these are first-time home buyers, and given the glut of homes on the market, most of these are financial transactions where a house changes hands in exchange for cash (and additional transaction costs). The $43,000 is not being invested; it isn’t buying anything for the public, like a new road. It’s just cash going into people’s pockets. …

As of July, the real price of housing, according to the Case-Shiller Composite 10 Index (adjusted using the consumer price index), was still 20 percent higher than in January 2000 and more than 30 percent higher than its average for the entire 1990s. Now, there is a risk that a weak economy can cause housing prices to fall well below their long-run average. However, housing prices appear to have stabilized, at least for now, and at too high a level. That is in part due to the tax credit, in part due to the partial economic recovery we are witnessing.

What happens when you artificially prop up housing prices? Imagine the credit were expanded to all home buyers and made permanent. This would simply boost housing prices at the low end of the market by close to $8,000, since all buyers would be willing to pay $8,000 more. (Prices would rise by a little less than $8,000 because at higher prices, more people would be willing to sell.) Whom does this benefit? Not first-time home buyers. It benefits people who already own houses (and their real estate agents) because it’s a one-time boost in housing values. This would be just the latest chapter in a long history of government policies to boost housing prices — the mortgage interest tax deduction, the capital gains exclusion on houses, the extension of the mortgage interest tax deduction to second houses, etc. Each of these policies pushes up prices just once; if you want to keep pushing up housing prices, you have to keep adding sweeteners.

And as we have seen, pushing up prices creates irrational valuations, which create speculation and inordinate risktaking. That’s exactly what led to the housing bubble and its collapse.  This is a milder version of a hair-of-the-dog approach.

What this essay touches on briefly in a slightly different context is the cost to taxpayers for these interventions.  What do we get for subsidizing these price supports, which is exactly what they are?  Not too much, actually.  We supposedly get the benefit of expanding home ownership, but only by pushing prices upward, which will make purchase for people on the edge more difficult, one-time tax credit notwithstanding.  Those are the people who won’t be able to afford the home after the tax credit, which could lead to more instability in mortgages, precisely what we don’t need at the moment.

As with Cash for Clunkers, this program does nothing to make home ownership more affordable in the long run.  The tax credit only encourages people to buy sooner rather than later while temporarily inflating prices due to the increased demand.  When the people stop buying houses, that bubble will pop again, and the resales for the subsequent year will suffer from having accelerated the purchases that normally would have taken place then.  It’s a transparent bid for a very temporary boost in economic indicators rather than a plan for solid, dependable, long-term economic stability.


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Government intrusion into markets always fails.

lorien1973 on October 27, 2009 at 2:23 PM

government = epic fail

moonbatkiller on October 27, 2009 at 2:25 PM

I’m waiting for the Cash for Clunkers bubble to burst…won’t be as devastating as the housing bubble, but there will be a increase in car repos…

Rogue on October 27, 2009 at 2:25 PM

Nothing new here…just more proof that less government is the best government

PatriotRider on October 27, 2009 at 2:25 PM

I do not understand why they think they need to stimulate first time home buyers when the prices are already unbelieveably low. I was looking at real estate prices last night and the prices in some areas are down to where we bought our first home in 1988.
The government needs to get the hell out of what used to be free markets.
Pretty soon they are going to be a whole different kind of free.

ORconservative on October 27, 2009 at 2:25 PM

I trust them completely with 1/6th of our economy.

marklmail on October 27, 2009 at 2:25 PM

If you haven’t checked Ed… go to the IRS.com and check on the “credit” you HAVE to pay back the 8K “credit” in 15 yrs!

I wish I was kidding.

upinak on October 27, 2009 at 2:27 PM

Keynes was a genius… at something I’m sure…

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 2:27 PM

Success — crr6

WashJeff on October 27, 2009 at 2:27 PM

How do you pay back the credit?
Are you serious?

ORconservative on October 27, 2009 at 2:27 PM

“The $43,000 is not being invested; it isn’t buying anything for the public, like a new road. It’s just cash going into people’s pockets. …”

well ya know there’s always that trickle down theory…

but I guess the dem’s aren’t too eager to talk about that.

WWS on October 27, 2009 at 2:28 PM

8K “credit” in 15 yrs!

I wish I was kidding.

upinak on October 27, 2009 at 2:27 PM

…but what will 8K be worth in today’s dollars in 15 years?

WashJeff on October 27, 2009 at 2:28 PM

If you haven’t checked Ed… go to the IRS.com and check on the “credit” you HAVE to pay back the 8K “credit” in 15 yrs!

I wish I was kidding.

upinak on October 27, 2009 at 2:27 PM

The 2008 credit has to be paid back. The 2009 credit does not have to be paid back, but it is counted as income and will be taxed accordingly. That’s all well and good, but for those on the cusp of taxpayer, tax-getter… they probably won’t make provision for the tax hit in 2010.

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 2:29 PM

Need to prop up those home values so local governments do not lose out on property tax revenue.

WashJeff on October 27, 2009 at 2:30 PM

in AZ, the market under $200k is a seller’s market due to the presence of investors and first time buyer’s rushing to take advantage of the tax credit.

without the tax credit, we’d have a more normal market but the banks would need to hold thier REO inventory for a much longer period.

i supported the tax credit, but I don’t support another for first time buyers.

now…a tax credit for move up buyers? I’d like to hear the details of that plan.

DrW on October 27, 2009 at 2:30 PM

Need to prop up those home values so local governments do not lose out on property tax revenue.

WashJeff on October 27, 2009 at 2:30 PM

Bingo.

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 2:31 PM

I hope this has no Republican support.

farright on October 27, 2009 at 2:31 PM

Propping up the housing market will not work long term as market fundamentals push toward lower prices. Some factors include (1) the glut of surplus housing caused by the burst bubble; forclosure sales and the like (2) the growing shadow inventory of homes that banks are not forclosing on, because to do so would require them to realize their losses on the loans (3) the demographic destiny of the baby boomer retirement. Baby Boomers hold much of their wealth in their homes and as they retire they will seek to sell their homes in order to move to locations that are more forgiving on their fixed income. They will struggle to find buyers for their homes at inflated bubble-esque prices, while meanwhile adding to supply (4) if we end up suffering energy problems–such as rising oil prices, or some kind of cap and tax legislation bent on punishing energy use–suburban homes may become less attractive to individuals than moving into urban environments in order to save money on energy costs. Add those homes to inventory, with fewer buyers.

Government schemes will not work. The solution is to stop the social engineering and allow houses to be properly valued in the market–even if it means that individuals and banks realize their losses.

Revenant on October 27, 2009 at 2:34 PM

It’s a transparent bid for a very temporary boost in economic indicators rather than a plan for solid, dependable, long-term economic stability.

Every thing Obama and the Dems do is a short term ‘kick the can down the road’ patch…to buy time for the next election. It won’t work anymore. They are rapidly running out of other people’s money to spend.

AUINSC on October 27, 2009 at 2:34 PM

I’m holding out for the Congressional clunkers program in 2010. I’ve got a cranky old corrupt socialist I’m itching to trade in for a newer model Congressman.

highhopes on October 27, 2009 at 2:35 PM

They are rapidly running out of other people’s money to spend.

AUINSC on October 27, 2009 at 2:34 PM

They can print all the money they want but they’ve reached people’s tolerance with the idea that any problem is solved by throwing obsene amounts of money at it.

highhopes on October 27, 2009 at 2:36 PM

Another Brick in the Wall: This is primarily meant to have more people getting Gov-mint Money, which makes them more likely to vote Demo

There are studies of voting behavior in the USA and Europe going back over fifty years which show that those who get money from the gov-mint ( in the form of salaries, disability, social security as primary income, housing, unemployment, etc )are more likely to vote for Democrats/Labour/SPD/Socialist than people who pay the gov-mint rather than get paid.

Janos Hunyadi on October 27, 2009 at 2:38 PM

Need to prop up those home values so local governments do not lose out on property tax revenue.

Local governments are between a rock and a hard place already, and its only going to get worse. The only real solution is to cut services, but good luck telling a residential community that the school budget must be cut, for example.

Revenant on October 27, 2009 at 2:39 PM

I was Watching American Experience’s 1990 production of the Crash of 1929 last night. Amazing how society seems to fear a letting a bubble burst. IN this case, the Wall Street execs did not want the bubble to burst.

Let it burst and let the chips fall where they may.

WashJeff on October 27, 2009 at 2:41 PM

good luck telling a residential community that the school budget must be cut, for example.

Revenant on October 27, 2009 at 2:39 PM

Sure would hate to hear that my school district cannot afford to pay a PE teacher $108,000 per year. My kid will suffer I tell you. Suffer!!!

WashJeff on October 27, 2009 at 2:43 PM

If you haven’t checked Ed… go to the IRS.com and check on the “credit” you HAVE to pay back the 8K “credit” in 15 yrs!

I wish I was kidding.

upinak on October 27, 2009 at 2:27 PM

I went there looking for info and I saw a bunch of comments asking for this to be extended. WOW! It might be an everlasting program.

When we moved here we couldn’t find a decent place to rent. So we had a realator looking for rental houses for us. Then we found one that was acceptable to us but the rent was to high so we decided to buy it. The mortgage company told us that the $8000 dollar did not have to be paid back or wasn’t taxed. We figured why not, but the developer would not fix the things we wanted fixed on it being brand new so we ended up renting another house. I’m glad we didn’t get the $8000 credit I’d hate to pay taxes on it. We are not going to be here that long and wasn’t sure where values would go. I am glad we are renting now.

Brat4life on October 27, 2009 at 2:46 PM

Sure would hate to hear that my school district cannot afford to pay a PE teacher $108,000 per year. My kid will suffer I tell you. Suffer!!!

Where I live, they pay for two teachers in the classroom now. One is the normal classroom teacher, another is certified in special education. Got a budget breakdown from the municipality not long ago, after being informed that property taxes were being raised another 4%. Over 50% of the budget goes to the school board.

Of course, its anathema to consider cutting these services here, just like its anathema to elect a Republican to municipal government.

Revenant on October 27, 2009 at 2:47 PM

Government intrusion into markets always fails.

lorien1973 on October 27, 2009 at 2:23 PM

“Fails” implies a value assessment.
More generally, government intrusion into markets (as opposed to governments shoring up the framework of markets) always makes them inefficient if not irrational.

Count to 10 on October 27, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Where I live, they pay for two teachers in the classroom now.
Revenant on October 27, 2009 at 2:47 PM

Common thing here in the South suburbs of Chicago. I am sure this helps the pension problem by having two teachers in a class.

WashJeff on October 27, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Need to prop up those home values so local governments do not lose out on property tax revenue.

WashJeff on October 27, 2009 at 2:30 PM

Bingo.

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 2:31 PM

Yep. But, to be fair, it is easy to overlook the affects/correlations of policy when you simply must act now or else! And it’s easy to sell scams to people who don’t even know how their local municipal/county government raises tax dollars.

j_galt on October 27, 2009 at 2:50 PM

These are intended to smooth out long-term trends, making the blips less impactful than they would otherwise be.
At least this one doesn’t destroy anything in funneling taxpayer money to subsidize private monetary exchanges. It is not totally without merit, although of course anyone here would point out that unintended consequences abound. But many people don’t understand even the direct consequences. At a gathering of relatively educated folks, one suggested that I should buy a home by month end due to the subsidy. I explained that the subsidy would merely make the home that much more expensive, and any benefit I would see would be much smaller than that advertised (and certainly much smaller than the variation in home prices over the coming months and years). Some people understood, but others were harder to convince. If more people understood that it was largely throwing money at the wrong people for the sake of a “cushion” (one which conservatives believe will cancel itself out) they might not be so supportive.

calbear on October 27, 2009 at 2:50 PM

The tax credit only encourages people to buy sooner rather than later while temporarily inflating prices due to the increased demand.

In other words, election-year politics.

jgapinoy on October 27, 2009 at 2:50 PM

Government intrusion into markets always fails.

lorien1973 on October 27, 2009 at 2:23 PM

Failure depends on one’s point of view.

WashJeff on October 27, 2009 at 2:50 PM

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 2:29 PM

no!

the 2009 creit is to be paid back. the 2008 is under the busg crefit concerning houses… and went on for 3 years!

I bought a house last year and was curious about it…. I was glad I didn’t try to buy this year.

upinak on October 27, 2009 at 2:52 PM

If only my Congressman, Leonard “CapnTax” Lance could understand this. From a recent newsletter: ”
Last week, I introduced a bill in Congress to help spur home sales in New Jersey and put forth a stronger recovery in our housing market.

Specifically the “Homebuyer Tax Credit Fairness Act” would extend and expand the popular homebuyer tax credit from $8,000 to $15,000 and open it to all homebuyers purchasing a primary residence — regardless of income. The cost of bill would be offset by recapturing unspent funds from the economic stimulus package.”

What a boob.

sandspur on October 27, 2009 at 2:52 PM

I hope this has no Republican support.

farright on October 27, 2009 at 2:31 PM

Newt texted me to tell you that you just don’t know how these things work… sometimes you have to cobble together Socialist programs with Communist programs to advance the conservative agenda.

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 2:56 PM

manakai if you don’t believe me.. here you go!

Tax Credit to Aid First-Time Homebuyers; Must Be Repaid Over 15 Years

IR-2008-106, Sept. 16, 2008

NOTE: The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) of 2009 updated the first-time homebuyer tax credit. The provisions outlined below apply to homes bought after April 8, 2008, and before Jan. 1, 2009. Different rules apply for homes bought in 2009.

Listen to an Audio Interview on This Topic

WASHINGTON — First-time homebuyers should begin planning now to take advantage of a new tax credit included in the recently enacted Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008.

And for those in 2009 looks like a repeat of the same as many are still trying for that credit.

First-time homebuyers who purchase a home in 2009 can claim the credit on either a 2008 tax return, due April 15, 2009, or a 2009 tax return, due April 15, 2010. The credit may not be claimed before the closing date. But, if the closing occurs after April 15, 2009, a taxpayer can still claim it on a 2008 tax return by requesting an extension of time to file or by filing an amended return. News release 2009-27 has more information on these options.

upinak on October 27, 2009 at 2:56 PM

Of course, if your real strategy is Cloward-Piven, then this makes perfect sense.

Kafir on October 27, 2009 at 2:57 PM

upinak on October 27, 2009 at 2:52 PM

For 2008 Home Purchases

The Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 established a tax credit for first-time homebuyers that can be worth up to $7,500. For homes purchased in 2008, the credit is similar to a no-interest loan and must be repaid in 15 equal, annual installments beginning with the 2010 income tax year.

For 2009 Home Purchases

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 expanded the first-time homebuyer credit by increasing the credit amount to $8,000 for purchases made in 2009 before Dec. 1.

For home purchased in 2009, the credit does not have to be paid back unless the home ceases to be the taxpayer’s main residence within a three-year period following the purchase.

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 2:59 PM

Of course, if your real strategy is Cloward-Piven, then this makes perfect sense.

Kafir on October 27, 2009 at 2:57 PM

+ 1000

marklmail on October 27, 2009 at 2:59 PM

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 2:59 PM

You missed it!

You didn’t read it. And I even gave you both sites.

Have a good one, thanks for playing!

upinak on October 27, 2009 at 3:00 PM

The provisions outlined below apply to homes bought after April 8, 2008, and before Jan. 1, 2009. Different rules apply for homes bought in 2009.

upinak on October 27, 2009 at 2:56 PM

They are outlined above in my last post… 2008 must be repaid… 2009 does not have to be repaid.

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Just bought a house. Had to fight off a bunch of first time homeowners who are buying homes like crazy right now. The stats seem to show a definite price inflation because of the tax credit. For those that like numbers:

Time period | Median sale price as % of list price
7-12 months ago: 93.9%
4-6 months ago: 96.5%
0-3 months ago: 97.8%

So, I basically paid a premium because of the tax credit (that I will not get) that may very well outweigh the tax credit itself. The average home price: $289,000. $289k * 3.9% = $11,271.

Now, yes that’s a little bit of oversimplification, but the effect is definitely there, and it might very well be canceling the tax credit out.

strictnein on October 27, 2009 at 3:01 PM

upinak on October 27, 2009 at 3:00 PM

Read:

The Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 established a tax credit for first-time homebuyers that can be worth up to $7,500. For homes purchased in 2008, the credit is similar to a no-interest loan and must be repaid in 15 equal, annual installments beginning with the 2010 income tax year.

For home purchased in 2009, the credit does not have to be paid back unless the home ceases to be the taxpayer’s main residence within a three-year period following the purchase.

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 3:02 PM

Of course, if your real strategy is Cloward-Piven, then this makes perfect sense.

Kafir on October 27, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Now that’s just crazy talk! Move along people, pay no attention to this silly right-winger. Cloward who?

j_galt on October 27, 2009 at 3:04 PM

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 3:02 PM

*smiles*

I did read it.. all of it, when I was doing taxes.

I read both the 2008 and the 2009 which was all of it. I also gave you both the site links. *smiles*

Oh and BTW if you call the IRS, they have an update when their lazy IT people ever get to it. You do have to pay it back they haven’t updated their site yet. *smiles*

upinak on October 27, 2009 at 3:07 PM

Newt texted me to tell you that you just don’t know how these things work… sometimes you have to cobble together Socialist programs with Communist programs to advance the conservative agenda.

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 2:56 PM

Nice! ROTFLMAO

highhopes on October 27, 2009 at 3:09 PM

upinak on October 27, 2009 at 3:07 PM

I’ll bet you the $8K I am right.

From your link:

Different rules apply for homes bought in 2009…

Follow the link.

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 3:19 PM

I ammended my 2008 return to grab the $7,500 interest free loan/credit. I got the house nearly a year prior and made the cutoff by 2 days. Why they made it retro-active, I have no idea but thanks! Kind-of defeats the “stimulus” effect of the entire program.

On a side note, much like the Cash4Clunkers debacle, it’s been over 4 months and I still haven’t received the money from the IRS.

Youngs98 on October 27, 2009 at 3:23 PM

Alan S. Binder that nitwit who thought up Cash For Clunkers assures us that Obama Is No Socialist Read the whole article he wrote in March – this “economist” & his genius ideas – he is the founder of NASI, the National Academy of Social Insurance.

Great, a bunch of buyers who can’t afford their homes qualifying for FHA backed loans. Down payment 3%, bad credit history – no problem, borrowing money from family to buy – no problem, because if they default it’s backed by the federal government – the taxpayers!

Hey Ed – if things don’t work out you can always get an Obama Mortgage. You think I am kidding – that is what the FHA is calling it.

batterup on October 27, 2009 at 3:23 PM

Is “Money-For-Mortgages” going to be retroactively added to last quarter’s GDP like the Cash-For-Clunkers program was?

BTW, did anybody ever bother to investigate how many of those government-financed-downpayment car loans were made to people with nonexistant credit ratings?

logis on October 27, 2009 at 3:25 PM

April 8 2008 $7.5k you have to pay back over 15 years out of your tax refund.

2009, $8k free money…never to be repaid.

Youngs98 on October 27, 2009 at 3:25 PM

Youngs98 on October 27, 2009 at 3:25 PM

Thank you.

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 3:26 PM

Hey Ed – if things don’t work out you can always get an Obama Mortgage. You think I am kidding – that is what the FHA is calling it.

batterup on October 27, 2009 at 3:23 PM

That website (fha.com) is not the FHA (fha.gov). It appears to be a consulting group to help with FHA loans.

WashJeff on October 27, 2009 at 3:27 PM

2009, $8k free money…never to be repaid.

Youngs98 on October 27, 2009 at 3:25 PM

Obama Money

farright on October 27, 2009 at 3:28 PM

Newt texted me to tell you that you just don’t know how these things work… sometimes you have to cobble together Socialist programs with Communist programs to advance the conservative agenda.

mankai

Bet you thought you were making that up:

Lost in the roaring rhubarb between conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh and Republican National Committee chairman Michael Steele was Newt Gingrich’s speech last Friday before the Conservative Political Action Conference.

Gingrich was only a few of the score of prominent speakers who offered specific proposals to help Republicans regain control of Congress and the White House — other than the GOP mantra of lowering taxes and reducing spending.

He cited his political action committee’s 12 solutions as the path to economic recovery.

…(4) Homeowner’s Assistance. Provide tax credit incentives to responsible home buyers so they can keep their homes.

http://themoderatevoice.com/26875/the-gospel-according-to-st-newt/

Terry_Dyne on October 27, 2009 at 3:33 PM

Obama Money

farright on October 27, 2009 at 3:28 PM

“It was some funds that was fo’given by Obama…from his stash…HAHAHA”

Youngs98 on October 27, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Terry_Dyne on October 27, 2009 at 3:33 PM

Newt needs some time away from DC.

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 3:42 PM

Dem’s trickle down theory is when Franks wets himself.

jbh45 on October 27, 2009 at 3:42 PM

I trust them completely with 1/6th of our economy.

marklmail on October 27, 2009 at 2:25 PM

If nobody puts a stop to them, you’re going to have to learn to trust them completely with 100% of our economy.

Daggett on October 27, 2009 at 3:48 PM

WashJeff on October 27, 2009 at 3:27 PM

thanks for catching that. I should have recognised that wasn’t a gov site.

batterup on October 27, 2009 at 3:50 PM

The housing bubble happened because the Gov’t flooded the market with cheap money, Fannie and Freddie (taxpayers) guaranteed the loans if they defaulted and everybody “deserved” a home.

Now the very same thing is happening in student loans because everybody “deserves” a college education. A giant bubble is being created because everybody can get a student loan and nobody has to pay out of pocket for their education.

When EVERYONE can get a student loan, the cost of college goes UP, UP, UP because colleges have NO incentive whatsoever to run efficiently or lower their costs.

Except, the worse thing is, student loans are next to impossible to get discharged/forgiven… they are with you until you die. You can’t buy a house or get a good job these days with a defaulted student loan.

How convenient that the Gov’t has started advertising programs where they will forgive student loan debt in exchange for 10 years of public service! Talk about creating an army of bureaucrats!! And Obama just took over student loans from the private sector (what a coincidence, not!).

The Gov’t is enslaving a whole generation of indentured servants by giving HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS in student loans to anyone who can sign their name (no income documentation required for most Gov’t student loans!!).

This crisis is the Govt’s fault, not the free market’s. If the Gov’t hadn’t flooded the market with cheap money and if people had to pay for (earn) what they buy, the market would keep prices low and would keep most bubbles from happening.

painesright on October 27, 2009 at 3:57 PM

“Government is not the solution to the problem. Government is the problem.” Ronald Reagan

Those words were never truer than now.

johnnybgood on October 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM

When you give bums that don’t pay income tax a tax credit, they just blow it at WalMart on Chinese mad crap.
Thus stimulating only the Chinese economy.

TheSitRep on October 27, 2009 at 5:06 PM

YOu know what REALLY pisses me off??
If the Government would have stayed out of this mess from the beginning and let the markets work as they should, I would have made a fortune off of the foreclosure market!
I didn’t go out and buy a giant McMansion that I couldn’t afford. I didn’t go out and take out all kinds of pyramid scheme adjustable mortgages. I have kept my debt low, lived within my means, and have saved money to be ready to invest. Instead of the markets being where they SHOULD be, they’re artificially high, we’re (the responsible people who stayed within out means) being taxed more than we should on the artificial values that are being propped up by our…. taxes….
It’s disgusting what our Government is doing to those of us who get up everyday and go to work, take personal responsibility seriously and try to do the right things. Disgusting!

KMC1 on October 27, 2009 at 5:27 PM

comparison to C4C is misguided in this situation IMO

gatorboy on October 27, 2009 at 5:38 PM

I didn’t go out and buy a giant McMansion that I couldn’t afford. I didn’t go out and take out all kinds of pyramid scheme adjustable mortgages. I have kept my debt low, lived within my means, and have saved money to be ready to invest. Instead of the markets being where they SHOULD be, they’re artificially high, we’re (the responsible people who stayed within out means) being taxed more than we should on the artificial values that are being propped up by our…. taxes….
KMC1 on October 27, 2009 at 5:27 PM

Haha. What a sucker!

Well, hopefully you’ve learned your lesson from all this, and you’ll start behaving more “responsibly” from now on — as that word is defined in Socialist countries.

logis on October 27, 2009 at 6:26 PM

I’m surprised no one has mentioned the $3 trillion in expiring commercial real estate loans, most of which will not – repeat NOT – be able to be rolled over. Actually CRE is even more toxic than residential real estate since the longest CRE related loan is for 10 years, most are for 5 or 7 years. And, logically, only the most ancient of ancient multi-story buildings are paid off. Notice all those fancy new empty condos, office buildings and mall storefronts. The tidal wave of CRE defaults is coming toward shore. And the quantities of expiring loans will increase each year for the next 3 years of so, dip slightly then head up with a vengeance between 2014-19. But, have no fear, the Treasury staff is working feverishly on “Plan C” to throw more bailout money at CRE. It will make the HAMP and C4C programs look like chump change.

boqueronman on October 27, 2009 at 7:38 PM

The First-time homebuyer $8,000 check has been good for the housing market short term, but it is like putting a band-aid over the housing problem. Many houses have been sold and purchased this year, but what about next year when this is over?

Didn’t housing help to get us into this mess?

yoda on October 27, 2009 at 8:04 PM

The 2008 credit has to be paid back. The 2009 credit does not have to be paid back, but it is counted as income and will be taxed accordingly. That’s all well and good, but for those on the cusp of taxpayer, tax-getter… they probably won’t make provision for the tax hit in 2010.

mankai on October 27, 2009 at 2:29 PM

A tax credit is not taxable. Oppose the credit because it’s idiotic, but don’t make false claims like you have to pay tax on the $8K. It’s simply not true.

angryed on October 27, 2009 at 8:17 PM

The amount given to the purchaser of the cars is considered income and they will pay taxes on it.

The car dealers still haven’t been paid, apparently no one in washington knows how to write checks to them.

So there are a pile of cars sitting around that need to be disposed of and no where to send them.

What a great plan.

workingforpigs on October 28, 2009 at 3:30 PM

Perhaps they should send all the junk cars to washington, apparently they own them now. Just put them up on blocks in the back yard of the white house. That should work fine.

workingforpigs on October 28, 2009 at 3:31 PM

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