Barone: Why Obama can’t go to Berlin Wall commemoration
posted at 2:20 pm on October 26, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Michael Barone finds it odd that Barack Obama can go to Oslo and Copenhagen for mainly personal reasons, but somehow can’t find the time to travel to Berlin to commemorate the twentieth anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall — the climax of the Cold War and the West’s triumph. Given the key role played by the US in the collapse of Soviet Communism, people have good cause to wonder why the leader of the free world can find time to pick up an award for himself and pitch his hometown to the International Olympic Committee, but not to say a few words in honor of the free world’s vindication in Berlin. Barone theorizes that an earlier Berlin speech may be haunting Obama:
In the Tiergarten, Obama spoke of “the terrorists who threaten our security in Afghanistan” and of the need “to defeat the Taliban and al Qaeda” there. That doesn’t mesh well with his recent reconsideration of the Afghanistan strategy he announced in March and reiterated in August or with the White House spin doctors’ suggestion that the Taliban and al Qaeda aren’t necessarily allies anymore.
In the Tiergarten, Obama asserted his “resolve to work with Russia when we can, to stand up for our values when we must and to seek a partnership that extends across this whole continent.” That doesn’t mesh very well with the “reset button” policy toward Russia that looks past its attacks on Georgia and Ukraine and propitiates the Putin regime with unilateral withdrawal of missile-defense installations from Poland and the Czech Republic.
In the Tiergarten, Obama said America must “stand with Europe in sending a direct message to Iran that it must abandon its nuclear ambitions.” But that message, if sent, has evidently not had the intended effect on the mullah regime, which is drawing out negotiations while presumably continuing its nuclear program apace.
Is Obama too embarrassed to give people an opportunity to compare Obama’s actions to his summer 2008 rhetoric? That seems too generous a view. Obama has had no difficulties in reversing himself publicly here in the US, where the media is only slightly less fawning than in Europe. Our friend Jim Geraghty created an axiom about expiration dates on Obama promises, and these examples from Tiergarten are more aspirations than commitments.
I think the answer is simpler: Berlin won’t be about Obama. It will honor previous generations of stalwarts against an evil empire that Academia defended for decades. Whether Obama joined them in that effort as a student is not material; after all, there is a time and a place for foolishness, and that’s college. It’s not that Obama doesn’t think that the fall of the wall is a good thing, but that it has nothing to do with him, and is therefore irrelevant.
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Revisionist historians don’t dither with stories they can’t easily revise….
ted c on October 26, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Simple. He can’t go because he wants to see it put back up. Except this time to prevent the west from fleeing growing US and EU tyranny to the free countries of Eastern Europe.
Ironically…
wildcat84 on October 26, 2009 at 2:23 PM
No, it’s because he’s a Marxist and the fall of the wall was one of the worse days of his life.
Orange Doorhinge on October 26, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Because he mourns the fall of communism?
MarkTheGreat on October 26, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Tee time conflict?
WashJeff on October 26, 2009 at 2:24 PM
.
More so it will honor a longterm commitment of multiple administrations, ie, consistancy in order to win the Cold War.
Barry is ALL about the Reset… in his bid to rebuild America into his ideal… he cannot celebrate any past actions (especialy by a Repub)… as that would not justify his tearing down of all those things, which worked…
Romeo13 on October 26, 2009 at 2:25 PM
“Mr. Putin, pare down this wall!”
“An inch or two. It’s obscuring our view of those cute little gulags you’ve built over there.”
“Pretty please?”
NoDonkey on October 26, 2009 at 2:25 PM
Congratulating Reagan or GHW Bush for something they accomplished is sooo yesterday and beneath the One. Moreover, that wall was built by union workers and put union dogs to work and gave union machine gunners a way to support their families. Now that it’s gone, well, so is that “opportunity.”
ted c on October 26, 2009 at 2:25 PM
I guess “Mr. Putin, Rebuild this Wall!” just doesn’t have that wondrous ring about it.
coldwarrior on October 26, 2009 at 2:26 PM
Much like other liberals, they are happy the wall fell – but they never are not happy that the ideas the wall represented went with it.
lorien1973 on October 26, 2009 at 2:27 PM
My take: Reagan.
Obama gave lip service to Reagan’s ideals during the campaign, but I’m pretty confident he can’t stand the guy and what he stood for. This anniversary will have to include reference to Reagan’s “tear down that wall!” speech, a more powerful oration than Obama has ever given (or ever will, IMO).
cs89 on October 26, 2009 at 2:27 PM
Ogabe’s afraid Walesa and Havel will kick his @ss.
Plus, honoring the collapse of communism in central Europe would have pi$$ed off one his mentors, the pedophile communist Frank Marshall Davis.
PimFortuynsGhost on October 26, 2009 at 2:27 PM
Commemorate the fall of communism????
Surely, you jest, Sir.
blink on October 26, 2009 at 2:27 PM
Comrade Obama only attends functions that benefit him. A pro Islamic, pro Communist POTUS would find little gain travelling to German, again.
Bedsides, he’s saving all his carbon jet credits to go celebrate the fall of Constantinople and later, Lenin’s birthday.
Hening on October 26, 2009 at 2:27 PM
Dear Leader knows that Old Europe is all wee-weed up.
Knott Buyinit on October 26, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Why would he want to commemorate the defeat of his ideological allies?
elduende on October 26, 2009 at 2:29 PM
I think he is right on this point. Obama has proven not to want to be involved unless he is the focal point. Our Egotist-in-Chief is an embarrassment.
portlandon on October 26, 2009 at 2:29 PM
Yeah, this anniversary will recall real leaders who confront evil, namely Reagan. In Obama’s world, Reagan and those who espouse his views are the real enemy, not Communism.
conservative pilgrim on October 26, 2009 at 2:29 PM
Well, the whole ‘backtrack’ is one thing, but also, he heard the Austrians might be there and State somehow couldn’t provide a translator.
Doorgunner on October 26, 2009 at 2:30 PM
I think it’s 90% of the latter…It’s not about him- with a 10% sprinkling of ‘Hey, some one might just notice that I talk out of my ass most of the time’…..
It hasn’t seemed to bother him too much to flat out lie and pull a massive flop a week later without batting an eye…why start now??
Present!! Ummm…ahh..maybe!!
BigWyo on October 26, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Communism? It’s offshoots seem to be marching just fine lately.
WashJeff on October 26, 2009 at 2:31 PM
OT:
Ed, will you be covering the Reid presser on public option @ 315 pm (ET)?
conservative pilgrim on October 26, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Mr. Obama, tear down this gall.
Grow up and lead.
EMD on October 26, 2009 at 2:32 PM
nailed it.
+3
ted c on October 26, 2009 at 2:32 PM
I say good – one event I can look forward to watching where I won’t have to look at him.
More appropriate US reps would be those from Reagan’s admin or even President George H.W. Bush, if healthy enough to travel. Afterall, the wall actually came down during his administration.
Brat on October 26, 2009 at 2:32 PM
What will be interesting to see is what Bambi IS doing that day….
Political Speech? (my bet)…
Hanging in the Whitehouse actualy doing his job? (nah)…
Golfing?
Romeo13 on October 26, 2009 at 2:33 PM
It’s rather difficult even for the President to find a way to apologize for America during an event that commemorates freedom and American fortitude in the face of totalitarianism.
Asher on October 26, 2009 at 2:34 PM
I think you’re right. History that’s far bigger than Obama and his demographic-based “historical accomplishment.” There will not be legions of German “schoochildren” comparing Obama to Christ or chanting mmmmm mmmmmm mmmmm after saying his name. Therefore, commemmorating the end of the Cold War is an event the filthy lying coward is going to vote present on.
BTW, I can’t believe it has been 20 years.
highhopes on October 26, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Obama won’t go to the Berlin Wall because Reagan once gave a great speach there. He can’t share the stage with even a dead former President.
RickZ on October 26, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Obama said “A continent came together to bring down the wall”. Uh, is this guy just pathological?
marklmail on October 26, 2009 at 2:36 PM
BO could never touch these words. He could never come close to standing firm for any belief system. He is nothing. He will go down in history as nothing.
jbh45 on October 26, 2009 at 2:37 PM
He can’t admit, even to himself, that any Republican was ever right about anything. It goes against everything he has ever been taught and believes about how evil America is, and that Republicans are to blame for it.
His narcissism probably plays a part in it, but I believe that winning the Cold War being a Republican accomplishment is the main thing.
backwoods conservative on October 26, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Funny. I thought the Berlin Wall falling was all about Obama.
My Revised History Textbook says that President Obama was solely responsible for the Berlin Wall being torn down. Citing his Columbia U. thesis, Obama said he “would not rest” until the folks oppressed by West German capitalism could freely move to enjoy full employment afforded to all of those comrades in East Germany. The textbook does briefly mention a President Reagan in the following footnote entry (“Pres. Reagan, pronounced ‘RAYgun,’ was a crusty dim-wit, third rate actor born in flyover country who stole the certain reelection of that loveable hero President Jimmy Carter. Some historians have suggested that Pres. Reagan was an amiable dunce while others concluded he was outright evil.”)
clorensen on October 26, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Obama, The Anti-Reagan
marklmail on October 26, 2009 at 2:39 PM
He would have to take his “socialist mop” over there.
Brat on October 26, 2009 at 2:40 PM
Obama’s just not into the whole Freedom thing. It’s sooo anti-hope and change.
kingsjester on October 26, 2009 at 2:40 PM
spot on Ed!
if ain’t about the ‘O’…don’t bother him…
cmsinaz on October 26, 2009 at 2:41 PM
If the Statists were to be honest about it, they would admit that the reason they hated President Ronald Reagan so much is because he brought about the downfall of their precious Soviet Union.
Because of that, they had to lie low and quietly revise history and indoctrinate a new generation in to the wonders of Statism.
Now that they’ve gotten enough people to forget about the complete failure that is Statism and all it’s horrors, there’s no way they’re going commemorate the event honestly.
Juno77 on October 26, 2009 at 2:41 PM
Obama resents, but all he’s done, the collapse of the USSR. That fall trashes the socialist notions of him and entire Enemy Party, the USSR failed.
“We will bury you” worked in reverse and Obama can’t handle that.
Liam on October 26, 2009 at 2:42 PM
Ed already said what I was going to say. If Obama isn’t the center of attention, he has no desire to participate.
Sue on October 26, 2009 at 2:42 PM
Selfless arrogant bottom feeder..
hawkman on October 26, 2009 at 2:43 PM
They weren’t even aspirations. They were pure BS right from the start. Your surmise that “it’s not about Obama” coupled with the fact that it really is about Reagan seals the epitaph on this episode of presidential avoidance.
What is particularly tragic is that the fall of the Berlin Wall was the culmination of 40 years of American resolve: beginning with the 1948 airlift under Truman; continuing with Kennedy’s “Ich bin ein Berliner,” and the Germans knew he meant it; thence to Reagan’s “tear down this wall”; and finally to the denouement under GHW Bush. Under both Democratic and Republican administrations we held firm about Berlin, even in the face of intense Soviet pressure. November 9, 1989 was vere likely the greatest victory in my lifetime (since 1956), but our wonderful “post partisan” president can’t find the time to attend.
jwolf on October 26, 2009 at 2:44 PM
He can’t miss this incredible chance to go before a global audience and tell the world how much we suck and bash us. He will find a way to make it there.
tommer74 on October 26, 2009 at 2:44 PM
Sometimes I believe Hussein flaps his lipps just for the sake of hearing words coming out of his mouth.
So Self-Serving.
Note to Hussein: I am not going to apologize for you!
BigMike252 on October 26, 2009 at 2:44 PM
Why go to Berlin when the Tiergarten is right there in Washington, D.C., thugs from Chicago, acorns, and Incompetent in Chief, singing kumbaya?
On topic
Nah, he actually doesn’t believe it’s a good thing and has nothing convincing to say in the fall’s support or glorification.
Also, if he’s not completely stupid, he must have figured out by now that the world has found him out to be what he always was – a narcissistic hypocritical cipher.
Schadenfreude on October 26, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Campaigning.
uknowmorethanme on October 26, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Ich Bein ein east Berliner. – Barack Obama
ICBM on October 26, 2009 at 2:45 PM
How dare you equate the one brave leader in this world fighting for freedom and Christianity with a communist!
You must have no idea about what is really happening in the world and no clue about recent history whatsoever, if you truly think Vladimir Putin has anything to do with supporting communism.
He is the #1 opponent of communism and the #1 opponent of the NWO!
How dare you ignorant and braindead people slander him!
Where do you get your information from? Do you spend your ENTIRE lives doing nothing but watching the Daily Show,South Park and video games?
Snap out of your brainwashed stupor..Open your minds and learn
MaximusConfessor on October 26, 2009 at 2:46 PM
I just don’t think he thinks it’s a big deal. I don’t think he believes it’s a bad thing the wall came down – but I doubt he really appreciates it was a bad thing it was ever there. I’m nearly certain he doesn’t think it was any worse than – as bad as? – the Israeli or US southern border walls. I mean, hey man, these things are oppressive to the workers who only want to get to their jobs!
TubbyHubby on October 26, 2009 at 2:46 PM
Dear Liar already won the election, what does The Whine need Europe for now?
rbj on October 26, 2009 at 2:46 PM
Absotively on the mark, Ed. This narcissist can’t stand the thought of not being the Alpha dog wherever he is. And the prospect of praise for GHWB or (shudder) Ronaldus Magnus absolutely sickens him.
Besides, why would our leading Marxist want to celebrate this event at all?
Longhorn Six on October 26, 2009 at 2:47 PM
Precedent Putz
The fall of the Berlin Wall and communist governments in 1989 and afterward was one of the most significant and positive events of the last twenty years. The Precedent’s election doesn’t come close in significance, except in a negative sense for all the damage he’s doing to the economy and government in this country.
ya2daup on October 26, 2009 at 2:47 PM
Why would I want Obambi to represent us over there?
catlady on October 26, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Schadenfreude on October 26, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Fixed
ya2daup on October 26, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Why would I want him to represent the US anywhere?
catlady on October 26, 2009 at 2:48 PM
MaximusConfessor on October 26, 2009 at 2:46 PM
You’re right, he doesn’t want to carry on Stalin’s legacy.
He’s aiming more for Ivan the Terrible.
NoDonkey on October 26, 2009 at 2:49 PM
Obama appeals to socialist governments, but not to their peoples.
Seems he’s a Marxist–a MINO–who is almost counter-Marxist. Further proof of his ego above fact and ideology.
The snake–I respect a true Marxist over this joker elected POTUS. He can’t even get his own ideology straight unless his arrogance is involved. Look at how many pics of him show his nose in the air.
Liam on October 26, 2009 at 2:50 PM
NoDonkey on October 26, 2009 at 2:49 PM
Maybe SaintOlaf forgot the /sarc tag.
kingsjester on October 26, 2009 at 2:50 PM
He won’t go because it symbolizes, once again, how communist regimes fail.
jukin on October 26, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Alternate Headline: Why Communist Won’t Celebrate Fall of Communism
LibTired on October 26, 2009 at 2:51 PM
“Ich bin kein Berliner”
“Why’d you (allow to) tear down that wall, Mr. Gorbachev?”
–Obama
Schadenfreude on October 26, 2009 at 2:52 PM
I think that’s it exactlty, Ed. After all, the commemoration, as it’s being conducted, is not exactly going to be praising the US role, anyway, so he doesn’t have that to worry about, but he can’t think of a single way of turning that implicit snub of America to his own personal advantage.
notropis on October 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM
Yeah, it is. Sorry, but it has to be said. We’re all thinking it.
Jim-Rose on October 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Hard to celebrate something when you’re sad it happened, and harder to spin it in front of the very people it happened to. It’s a no-win for the one.
Aardvark on October 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Too much Daily Show,South Park and American idol for you..
Your brain has completely rotted away!
Smart people(a long time ago) used to actually research issues before talking (in order to establish credibility)..
Now, zombies like yourself think even googling some info is way too much work.
MaximusConfessor on October 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Barone is overreaching. If Obama had to avoid everywhere he talked trash about al Qaeda he’d have to hide in the White House.
Obama is avoiding Berlin because its not useful to him, period. He visits Oslo because it helps him, same with Copenhagen (he was paying off Daley for getting him elected). It’s all about political campaigning, not about leading the country.
commenter on October 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
You give him too much credit
entagor on October 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Sweet post. But I can’t find Obama allowing anyone else to rebuild that wall. He’s a MINO–Marxist In Name Only.
It’s about him, not the credo.
Liam on October 26, 2009 at 2:57 PM
Well stated Ed, with Obama it’s all about Obama.
farright on October 26, 2009 at 2:58 PM
MaximusConfessor on October 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
I would think you would have a high opinion of Ivan IV.
I am crestfallen.
NoDonkey on October 26, 2009 at 3:01 PM
I think it’s even simpler Ed: Obama is a disciple of communist that built the wall and Mao who first suggested the idea of a Berlin wall. Why would an ardent communist celebrate the destruction of a communist landmark?
chicagojedi on October 26, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Next time go spread your atheist propaganda somewhere else.
Stop slandering the one leader that is promoting and defending Christianity.
MaximusConfessor on October 26, 2009 at 3:05 PM
Especially when we haven’t built our allotment of 900 foot Obama statues yet, competely with a 600 foot mop.
NoDonkey on October 26, 2009 at 3:05 PM
I think it comes down to a simple fact: We WON the Cold war and the Soviet Union LOST. Liberals like Obama don’t like this formulation and much prefer to say that the Cold War “ended”. Now if you believe that it just ended, then the fall of the Wall is not necessarily a triumphiant moment but more of a benchmark in time.
The other thing that concerns Obama is that any celebration of the anniversary will be seen as an insult to the Russians. Obama may believe that the Cold War just ended, but the Russians know that they lost and this is not a happy moment for them. The last thing Obama wants to do is make the Russians feel bad with some “jingo-istic” celebration (his perspective, not mine.)
When Hillary presented the Reset button to the Russians, it was because Obama wants to reset everything. Cold War? Forget about it. That’s the past. Now we want to forge a new beginning or some other such cr*p.
But it’s hard to forget about the past when people keep wanting to bring it up. Hence, you downplay the anniversary as much as possible.
PackerBronco on October 26, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Don’t you have that backwards? Shouldn’t it be “Marxist in all but name?”
notropis on October 26, 2009 at 3:07 PM
There is no real question that Obaminable won’t honor anything that is anti-communist or that demonstrates the utter failure of the communist system he so idiotically wants to replicate in the U.S. It never ceases to amaze that academics like Obaminable and his cadres deny the reality that their ilk have always been the immediate targets of the purges that follow their revolutions and that those who supported communist revolution, thinking they’d be the ones holding the whips afterward, weren’t.
Ay Uaxe on October 26, 2009 at 3:07 PM
Worse, people might start comparing Obama with previous leaders of the free world and fing The One wanting/lacking.
Sir Napsalot on October 26, 2009 at 3:08 PM
When the dust has finally settled, Obama won’t be able to carry Ronald Reagan’s jock strap. Nor Kennedy’s, for that matter!
GoldenEagle4444 on October 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM
To paraphrase Hanlon’s razor:
Never attribute to lack of consistency that which can easily be explained by ego.
landshark on October 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Obama can go to Copenhagen for personal reasons (Chicago), but he can’t go for other reasons (climate meeting)
Phoenician on October 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Huh. Didn’t know the battle for “freedom and Christianity” had to be fought through the Republic of Georgia.
(Pssst. Putin’s KGB background kind of undercuts any “Christian leader for freedom” cred.)
cs89 on October 26, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Mr. Putin, build up this wall just doesn’t resonate the same way, does it?
highhopes on October 26, 2009 at 3:13 PM
That whole fall of the wall and communism thing clashes with his meme that America was rotten in all ways until it elected him. He could never celebrate such a victory or such a leader as Reagan.
Jvette on October 26, 2009 at 3:13 PM
cs89 on October 26, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Is SaintOlaf Russian Orthodox?
kingsjester on October 26, 2009 at 3:13 PM
The last two Dems elected president are basically sociopaths. While details of the Psycopathy Checklist are limited to law enforcement, details leak.
Clinton couldn’t keep his story straight, changing lies every time he was questioned about Monica. That’s not just a matter of lies, but that a psychopath’s nature. They don’t recall the lies they tell. Their ‘reality’ changes about every five minutes; that’s what they are and can only do. They can’t help themselves.
Obama’s about the same in my estimate. He seems to have found Marxism as a vehicle, but he’s not a true Marxist. Marxism has rules, and Obama doesn’t like rules. For further evidence, I submit that if nhe cared about poor blacks, he would try slamming us all with things that risk harm to all of us.
Who will most be harmed by ObamaCare, except the poor? People who can’t afford insurance premiums in the first place will be slammed by huge tax increases.
Maybe it’s some form of spite on Obama’s part, I don’t know. But if Obama really cared, he’d let Washington pay the insurance premiums for those struggling, rather than push for a tax increase that hurts us all, especially poor blacks and other Americans.
Obama isn’t really a Marxist in my view. He’s a low-grade psychopath out to hurt everyone he can.
Liam on October 26, 2009 at 3:14 PM
Max,
This “#1 opponent of communism” was a member of the Communist Party from the ’70s until the party dissolved in 1991.
That’s some pretty strong “crazy” you’re throwing around here.
cs89 on October 26, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Berlin Wall commemoration
I’m glad he’s not going. It’s one less place he will dirty. Pleeeease go to Havana, Venezuela or Iran.
Texyank on October 26, 2009 at 3:19 PM
I guess researching before bellowing is asking too much?
Hening on October 26, 2009 at 3:23 PM
The easiest, most efficient fix to solve the problem of those without health insurance is for DC to pay the premiums. It would be a lot cheaper than what is proposed now, and get everyone covered.
Liam on October 26, 2009 at 3:23 PM
kingsjester on October 26, 2009 at 3:13 PM
They’re all under the same Ecumenical Patriarch. But this clown throws his “one true church” stuff into every thread he visits.
A while back, he was spinning Prince Charles’ connection to the Orthodox church (pilgrimages to monastery, familial connections) into a fantasy that when he became King Charles, the U.K. would become Orthodox.
Crazy.
cs89 on October 26, 2009 at 3:23 PM
But isn’t building walls a shovel ready project?
NoDonkey on October 26, 2009 at 3:24 PM
That was my thought too. Barry is avoiding Berlin because he knows there will inevitably be comparisons drawn between him and Reagan, and Barry knows it won’t be flattering to him. Reagan was a man of courage and conviction; a man who instinctively knew how to lead. Barry is the antithesis of that. He has no courage, no convictions, and he couldn’t effectively lead a troop of Cub Scouts.
The attributes that got Barry elected — the ability to look “dreamy” while reading a speech well (off a teleprompter) — look awfully lame when contrasted against the very real integrity and accomplishments of a man like Reagan.
AZCoyote on October 26, 2009 at 3:25 PM
Obama isn’t a Marxist, and he’s not filled with American ideals dating from our Constitution. He’s only for himself, and liberty for the masses flies in the face of his ego.
Liam on October 26, 2009 at 3:25 PM
Yes, the spotlight would Not be on him, so he won’t go.
It was a time when something big Actually happened. He would look way too small next to all of that Reality around him.
Coward. Amateur. Jerk.
bridgetown on October 26, 2009 at 3:26 PM
Obama can’t match Kennedy and Reagan. At least he knows it. Sad, too, he can’t try to match because his personality prevents it; he knows what he is.
And that’s a weakness; he’s unwilling to even try faking it.
Liam on October 26, 2009 at 3:29 PM
Why would Obama worry about being caught in a lie. He’s a Democrat. That means he’s genetically incapable of telling the truth. Everyone knows that.
Jeff from WI on October 26, 2009 at 3:31 PM
Oh, simple! It’s easy to lie when protected, but on the international stage it’s open bet. Among Euros, Obama’s speech will be compared to those of Kennedy and Reagan. Obama knows he can’t match them, and that kills him. So, bet to avoid the matter entirely.
Liam on October 26, 2009 at 3:35 PM
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