Good news: Baucus’s ObamaCare bill clocks in at a cool 1,502 pages
posted at 8:31 pm on October 19, 2009 by Allahpundit
At a steady clip of two minutes per page, working a full eight-hour day, you’d be through it in just under a week.
Seems like a good time to start a pool on how long the final bill will be after amendments, mergers with other drafts, etc. Pencil me in for 1,830 pages. Do I hear 2,000?
The Senate Finance Committee filed its sweeping health care reform bill Monday and its release served largely to highlight the divisions among Democrats over the direction of reform.
The massive, 1,500 page bill is expected to serve as the backbone for Democratic reform efforts going forward and five senators expressed concerns about one of its main provisions, a 40 percent tax on high-end insurance plans…
It’s important to remember that the bill won’t exist in this form for long. Senate Majority Leader Reid and Sens. Max Baucus and Chris Dodd along with senior White House aides are merging the Finance and Health Committee legislation into one bill that will be considered on the floor of the Senate. The behind-closed-doors dealings have drawn criticism from Republicans, particularly because President Obama had promised a transparent process and pledged to negotiate the health care bill on C-SPAN.
Serious question: Assuming that passage of some bill is a fait accompli, which it probably is, why would a short bill be better? They’re remaking one-sixth of the economy with legislation that touches on various areas of law. Even a “short” bill’s bound to run into the hundreds of pages, which might — might — entice more senators to read it but at the price of leaving statutory gaps that’ll eventually be filled in by federal courts. Would you rather have unelected judges writing the law or Congress? Any major economic legislation, be it a revision of the tax code or overhaul of social security, is probably going to mean a huge bill even if the final product results in smaller or more efficient government. It’s a necessary evil of trying to govern a country of 300 million people with a fantastically complex economy. Frankly, I’m surprised it didn’t end up being 5,000 pages.
Here it is in browser-friendly format in case you’ve got a week to spare.
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I read it. The plot stinks and the ending sucks.
Norbitz on October 19, 2009 at 8:33 PM
How long is the Constitution again?
Bob's Kid on October 19, 2009 at 8:33 PM
Does that include the “Kennedy Clause”? You know, the portion of the bill that exempts Congress from Obamacare?
oldleprechaun on October 19, 2009 at 8:35 PM
The douce you say…!!!
Seven Percent Solution on October 19, 2009 at 8:35 PM
Probably 1000 pages is pork for our wonderful elected.
L
letget on October 19, 2009 at 8:35 PM
Every page of that bill will support a full building of bureaucrats and lawyers. It’s not volume, big or small; it’s the clarity withing at ANY length. The less clarity, the more work and power to the Dem’s paper-shuffling BFFs
michaelo on October 19, 2009 at 8:37 PM
Serious answer: So people can understand what’s in it.
LibTired on October 19, 2009 at 8:37 PM
Call it the “Declaration of Dependence”
PaCadle on October 19, 2009 at 8:38 PM
Don’t worry, I’m sure the Congress will take appropriate time to read through and carefully consider all aspects of this bill. Surely they would never rush through something without having read it, especially when dealing with an issue of this magnitude.
And as long as I’m dreaming, I’d like a million dollars and a pony.
TheQuestion on October 19, 2009 at 8:41 PM
I could read that in one *dump*. Depends what I ate, though.
bessex on October 19, 2009 at 8:42 PM
Now this is an understatement.
Rovin on October 19, 2009 at 8:42 PM
Do any of them mention me?
Chuck Schick on October 19, 2009 at 8:44 PM
I may be in denial…but I still refuse to accept the premise of that question.
AUINSC on October 19, 2009 at 8:44 PM
So it took me five seconds to find that a public option (in the form of a co-op) is included. Am I missing something?
txag92 on October 19, 2009 at 8:45 PM
I think Congress should take as long to consider the final version as Obama is taking to consider what to do in Afghanistan.
If the Dems complain that people are dying without medical care, well, the troops are dying in Afghanistan, too.
Wethal on October 19, 2009 at 8:46 PM
From whence come these statements:
… and the “slim and none” tag on the home page?
Midas on October 19, 2009 at 8:46 PM
My suggestion for a Constitutional Amendment:
No law may be passed in the United States if it is longer than 10 pages, single spaced, 11 point type face, 8 and a half by 11 inches, with half inch margins top, bottom, and sides.
Buford Gooch on October 19, 2009 at 8:46 PM
1,502 pages is move than twice as long as Mein Kampf.
MB4 on October 19, 2009 at 8:47 PM
Meanwhile, Pelosi and Reid are working behind closed doors to pass Obama’s Free Speed Reading Stimulus for the Inner Cities: $12 Billion to be doled out on corners so “the community” can go get some speed, readin’.
Lourdes on October 19, 2009 at 8:47 PM
Just wait for the sequel(s)
Ugly on October 19, 2009 at 8:47 PM
I’d say 2,450 pages. The leftists can’t help themselves. They’re just that pathetic.
progressoverpeace on October 19, 2009 at 8:48 PM
O.K., that was a bit rank, I admit it…
Lourdes on October 19, 2009 at 8:48 PM
Similar to being hung by a longer rope or a shorter rope?
MB4 on October 19, 2009 at 8:49 PM
This is not a publication that should be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force.
(Thanks to Dorthy Parker).
NoDonkey on October 19, 2009 at 8:50 PM
At 1,502 pages, don’t we need a Special Committee to investigate it?
IntheNet on October 19, 2009 at 8:50 PM
Clearly Barack Obama thinks it is too long.
MB4 on October 19, 2009 at 8:51 PM
Ahh..the new Hobson’s choice…
If this were a Star Trek episode, this is the point where the Nomad computer would freeze up in a logic loop…
Horatius on October 19, 2009 at 8:51 PM
In other words…
“I’m not reading that. Let’s get Mikey!”
“Yeah! Mikey’ll read anything!”
/unfortunately Mikey is not an elected official.
Ugly on October 19, 2009 at 8:52 PM
Seriously, how many pages does it take to say they are going to rape the middle class and steal our childrens future? I’m guessing 2, if you double space it and leave room for pictures.
milwife88 on October 19, 2009 at 8:52 PM
You don,t get it .It makes no difference if it,s 1 page or 15000 they don,t care.The Libs are going to cram this down our throat no matter what it says or does to our country .After all there good intentions are what matters.(Revolution is coming)
thmcbb on October 19, 2009 at 8:52 PM
It’s like the Bubonic Plague or something…it just won’t go away unless treated immediately with a specific antibiotic, which antibiotic most people are least likely to get quickly if at all.
Lourdes on October 19, 2009 at 8:52 PM
“Would you rather have unelected judges writing the law or Congress?”
Such a great defense Allah.
You sure are a reasonable person. If only we had more with your clarity of vision.
And when you get right down to it, one of the big problems with the Constitution is that it simply isn’t specific enough. They should have handled all the details, right? Then we wouldn’t have to contend with the “flaws” that seem to bother you so much, Allah.
notagool on October 19, 2009 at 8:54 PM
This isn’t a republic today; it’s a dictatorship.
Lourdes on October 19, 2009 at 8:54 PM
Destroying a nation takes more verbiage today than it did in the 1920′s.
Cicero43 on October 19, 2009 at 8:54 PM
I wish I had your way with words.
/88 was a weird year for me
Ugly on October 19, 2009 at 8:58 PM
Let me be clear, the time to debate is over.
OK, let’s vote on it now.
JammieWearingFool on October 19, 2009 at 8:59 PM
They’ve automatically and unwittingly triggered a little known law drafted 150 years ago that says any lawmaker putting his/her name to a bill measuring over 1,200 pages instantly incurs the death penalty.
I expect all lawmakers with their names on this bill to report to the gallows immediately.
Spiritk9 on October 19, 2009 at 9:00 PM
I’ll take 2,459.
Jim-Rose on October 19, 2009 at 9:00 PM
And there you have the best argument on why this should NEVER be a federal issue. As to the length, is it really your belief that the length is owed to an over zealous Congressional body, desperate to ensure that no legal stone is left unturned, so as to provide a truly “comprehensive” bill? If you do, then I praise you for your ability to be more fair-minded than I, as well as repressing your cynicism. My two cents: It’s long, so as to be daunting. It’s long to hide things. It’s long so that it can be “pared back” to 1,000 pages only to then claim to be “responsive” to the American people’s concern about the length. It’s long so that no one will ultimately be held accountable (I didn’t know that was in there! I didn’t know that provision would be used that way!). It is not long so as to pay due diligence to the legal minefield spread before them. They are in fact laying the mines themselves. As that great 20th century thinker and humanitarian, Mao, once said…just kidding.
Weight of Glory on October 19, 2009 at 9:01 PM
TheQuestion ,
would you accept a peace prize?
rob verdi on October 19, 2009 at 9:01 PM
One one hand, reading the bill couldn’t take longer than these ALCS games.
/Hey, nice move, Joe Girardi!
JammieWearingFool on October 19, 2009 at 9:02 PM
2,134 pages is my guess. There would be more pork added on but seeing as how this will be pushed through in about 2 days with the ‘bipartisan support’ of
Dede ScoffazaOlympia Snowe.chicagojedi on October 19, 2009 at 9:02 PM
I’ll go a little higher at 1880…
cmsinaz on October 19, 2009 at 9:04 PM
Liberalism is immoral.
Liberalism at its core is coercion and force. For all the moral preening the Left does about how much they care and how heartless we conservatives are the truth is quite the opposite. There is nothing kind about using the force of government to compel ostensibly free citizens to surrender significant portions of their labor and property (income) to the state to serve the purposes not of the nation but of the State, i.e. the government.
Liberalism makes half the population servants to the other half of the population through various social programs that cannot be opted out of even though our lives are diminished by the confiscation of our earnings.
Liberalism root and branch is anathema to the American tradition of individualism as well as poisonous to liberty for how can liberty exist when the state seeks to control the lives of individuals rather than the individual himself?
Liberals are always trying to claim the moral high ground but how can this be a valid claim when their entire agenda can only be enacted by force?
Conservatism is the truly compassionate ideology because it seeks to free, and keep free, the individual from the state.
I do not now and will never work for the state and will die fighting against it if I must.
DerKrieger on October 19, 2009 at 9:05 PM
Another Ones bits the Dust!. and another One gone
hawkman on October 19, 2009 at 9:06 PM
This sounds like the “end of life counseling” provision reworded so as not to cause a stink.
txag92 on October 19, 2009 at 9:07 PM
Pencil me in for HR 3200 being rammed through via reconciliation.
steveegg on October 19, 2009 at 9:07 PM
Well according to most of our congresscritters that over 1500 reason NOT to read it.
fbcmusicman on October 19, 2009 at 9:07 PM
Well according to most of our congresscritters that over 1500 reasons NOT to read it.
fbcmusicman on October 19, 2009 at 9:08 PM
I took a quick glance at the document on the web (which I can’t select text from or search) and just went to page 803 – just for kicks. The first thing I see is:
My bold. This has something to do with handling serious medicare patients and transitioning them to something (I didn’t have the energy to wade through it all), but the “community-based organization” jumped right out at me. I wonder how many times that shows up in this POS bill?
That was just a random page.
progressoverpeace on October 19, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Literally speaking, I would think a long rope is preferable. You’d want all the momentum you could get.
jaime on October 19, 2009 at 9:10 PM
They won’t bother to read it now matter how many pages it runs.
GarandFan on October 19, 2009 at 9:10 PM
The 1502 page Baucus Bill condensed to a single sentence:
FU US Constitution,democracy, old people, conservatives, and all white people not domiciled on Martha’s Vineyard.
MaiDee on October 19, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Pencil me in for the resulting explosion of anti Obama activities if any part of this Marxist abortion gets forced on the nation against our will.
elduende on October 19, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Yep. This health care bill is, basically, the left’s declaration of the dissolution of the nation.
progressoverpeace on October 19, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Vote my a$$, it seriously time for the torches and pitchforks…
doriangrey on October 19, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Abortion is covered. Let’s see about illegals.
txag92 on October 19, 2009 at 9:14 PM
1502 pages? Wow!
That’s a lot for the Senators to read before they vote on it, isn’t it?
Oh, wait, nevermind……
JohnBG on October 19, 2009 at 9:14 PM
I can name this bill in 3 notes.
docflash on October 19, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Page 79:
Hum.
txag92 on October 19, 2009 at 9:18 PM
1,502 pages? Wow. The Senators are going have to hire 3 lawyers a piece, instead of just 2, to read this bill.
kingsjester on October 19, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Mind you, they didn’t have the votes when no one knew about this abortion now that people are strongly and increasingly angry and agitated against it, the 21%ers in Congress seem to have decided to ram it on the nation. It is a direct Marxist FU to the nation.
elduende on October 19, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Big time! They are all-in on this and are determined to ram it through, no matter what. The Precedent always liked this attitude, because he just wants to cause chaos and sow unrest in the nation. The rest of them are just useful idiots who will be thrown to the wolves when things heat up.
I am amazed that anyone is even standing for this cr@p after it was so roundly rejected, and yet the COngress works on it as if nothing had ever happened. Unreal. But, that’s how nations disintegrate.
progressoverpeace on October 19, 2009 at 9:22 PM
The problem is that the entire program is simply too big to trust the government not to fu(k it up massively, even if one were to agree in principle with what they were trying to achieve (believe me, I don’t).
If they’re expecting zillions in savings in waste and fraud, why do we need this bill to start clamping down on the abuse, which, if it indeed is there, would go a long way to funding insurance under the existing system for those folks who don’t have it.
This is a naked, unabashed power grab. It’s not about health care or health insurance or whatever the excuse-du-jour is. Its simply about controlling all that money, and screw the citizens.
mr.blacksheep on October 19, 2009 at 9:23 PM
Are those our only choices? Why not Tolstoy? Dickens? Hemmingway?
Oh yeah, they’re dead.
Stephen King!! A good horror/fiction writer seems appropriate. “The
ShiningSteaming” (pile of crap)swede7 on October 19, 2009 at 9:24 PM
excellent…kathy griffith at her best…
cmsinaz on October 19, 2009 at 9:26 PM
I think at this point its just a matter of time before they collapse the currency and this will all be moot.
elduende on October 19, 2009 at 9:26 PM
Don’t you recall PoP, it was a ceremony called Carousel.
Rovin on October 19, 2009 at 9:31 PM
FIFY, since that’s the reality after a bill becomes law.
uknowmorethanme on October 19, 2009 at 9:32 PM
I agree, though it is still a race between the monetary disaster and the feral government grabbing power/imposing its will as to which will be the trigger to cause this nation to shatter. But The Precedent and the lunatics in Congress are stressing things from every side, and the nation will eventually give, one way or another.
progressoverpeace on October 19, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Who says it has to be a long bill? I can think of a really short bill that would overturn all of this:
“The ‘America’s Healthy Future Act of 2009′ is hereby repealed.”
Mayhem on October 19, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Unanimous consent is not given.
tjexcite on October 19, 2009 at 9:34 PM
But they were told they had a chance to win.
BTW, Farrah was great in that movie – all two minutes of her.
progressoverpeace on October 19, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Anyone who has anything to do at all with this idiocy, deserves to be forcibly dragged out of the Capitol by their heels, horsewhipped mercilessly on the Capitol lawn, prior to being hurled screaming and bleeding into the middle of the cold Potomac River.
This will not stand.
NoDonkey on October 19, 2009 at 9:36 PM
2842. Mark my words.
Hucklebuck on October 19, 2009 at 9:36 PM
This has NOTHING to do with health care. It is to create a huge federal agency that can become a unionized voting block. They fully understand this will bankrupt the nation. Just part of the Cloward Piven stratagy.
Aviator on October 19, 2009 at 9:36 PM
See? This is why I am a strong fav of AUDIOBOOKS. iPod it, listen while working, and heyyyy, maybe while you’re sleeping you will retain some info!!!/sarc
I propose that the next barbarian bill HAS TO BE READ via AUDIOBOOK, posted on Apple iTunes, WMP or any .mp3 player and each AUTHOR identifies themselves by NAME/STATE/YEARS IN OFFICE.
Then they will read each and every piece of crap that they put on that bill. On iTunes it can even be broken down in an app (like the US Constitution) and look it up by sections. HOW BOUT THAT? Where is my Nobel prize?
Then we can hold accountable any jackass on any section. GOP rebuttals = 500 pages? Amendments? “There’s an app for that!” LOL!
ProudPalinFan on October 19, 2009 at 9:38 PM
Page 39-40. Can you say rationing? How about death panels…
INSUFFICIENT FUNDS.—If the Secretary
estimates for any fiscal year that the aggregate
amounts available for payment of expenses of the
high risk pool will be less than the amount of the
expenses, the Secretary shall make such adjustments
as are necessary to eliminate such deficit, including
reducing benefits, increasing premiums, or estab-
lishing waiting lists.
ak4570 on October 19, 2009 at 9:47 PM
Indeed progress.
elduende on October 19, 2009 at 9:48 PM
King James Version of the Bible–894 pages.
The rise and fall of countless nations, the key to eternal security, the origin and final judgement of sin.
Baucus Health Care Proposal–1,502 pages.
The fall of one nation, the key to national suicide, the origin of the judgement of the death panel.
jimmy2shoes on October 19, 2009 at 9:51 PM
In Rush to Pass 1,500-Page Health Care Bill, Congress Accidentally Enacts Walton, Indiana, Yellow Pages: http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/08/in-rush-to-pass-1000-page-health-care.html
Mervis Winter on October 19, 2009 at 9:55 PM
Nah, save that one for when half the population becomes mindlessly dependent on newly-legalized Mary Jane.
Unless you really want to go Galt, we’re already pretty dependent on our local, state and federal governments.
Dark-Star on October 19, 2009 at 9:58 PM
No bill should be enacted that the president himself nor his Congress has taken the time to read. I’m betting he has not read War and Peace either, as that was over 1200 pages.
scalleywag on October 19, 2009 at 10:05 PM
I’m gonna wait for the movie.
Rod on October 19, 2009 at 10:06 PM
excuse me, has NOT taken time to read
scalleywag on October 19, 2009 at 10:07 PM
Is it 1,502 pages because it was written in crayon?
-or-
Are the bills not read because the pages are blank? Do they just pass them, send them up to the President for a signature and then fill in the details later?
Left Coast Right Mind on October 19, 2009 at 10:09 PM
I’m having a hard time searching through it; does it say anything about abortion?
TheQuestion on October 19, 2009 at 10:16 PM
1500 pages? That’s an awfully long joke. Someone just tell me the punch line.
GnuBreed on October 19, 2009 at 11:04 PM
According to my count…
The Declaration of Independence: 1,337 words (not including signatures). When set at 12 point Times New Roman, double-spaced, with one-inch margins, the founding document runs just 6 pages.
The U.S. Constitution (as originally written): 4,501 words (not including signatures). When set at 12 point Times New Roman, double-spaced, with one-inch margins, the founding document runs just 17 pages.
publiuspen on October 20, 2009 at 12:03 AM
I don’t have time to read it so if you can’t wait for my vote until 2012 well than, I vote NO………..
I expect my representative to do the same!
BigMike252 on October 20, 2009 at 12:18 AM
In a death by hanging, there were three options on how to die… depending on how far you fell and how long the rope was.
If the rope was too short, you suffocated to death. A nasty, slow, painful death.
If the rope is just long enough it will snap your vertebrae apart so that death is instantaneous.
If the rope is too much longer than that then you’ll have two parts to bury. Decapitation becomes an issue at some point.
If it were me on the gallows… i’d want a long rope. Don’t care if it’s too long… won’t matter much after I’m dead.
On the other hand… if I’m the one putting the congress critters who vote for this bill on the gallows… I’ll have to take budget considerations into mind.
Chaz706 on October 20, 2009 at 12:18 AM
BTW, thank you Olympia Snowe. This monstrosity is upon us because of you, and only you. You are the lowest of the low. Worse than a liberal.
progressoverpeace on October 20, 2009 at 1:35 AM
I just jumped into the POS at page 746 – and found my favorite quote (so far):
“(f) Funding -
(1) In General – There are appropriated, from amounts in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated-
(A) $10,000,000,000…”
WHAT? “not otherwise appropriated”? Our Treasury?
4of8 on October 20, 2009 at 1:36 AM
During World War II, Winston Churchill required every British area commander to send him the status of the war on their front on a daily basis on ONE double-spaced, typewritten page.
If Churchill could run a world war with six pages of information, you’d think Congress could write a bill that was shorter than War & Peace. Then someone actually might read it before voting. Ahh, that’s too much to ask.
bradley11 on October 20, 2009 at 6:33 AM
Here’s a thought: How about ZERO pages?
Diane on October 20, 2009 at 7:00 AM
No, actually it is not. I downloaded the pdf from the finance committee website and will read it later. I see another five pages of notes or more in my future.
Its heartening to see that libturds are already coming out against this. It will hugely increase taxes and permanently screw the budget.
Shall I take this moment to remind you all that they do not have the constitutional authority to do this?
dogsoldier on October 20, 2009 at 7:00 AM
These people are hopeless.
Terrye on October 20, 2009 at 7:12 AM
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