Feds won’t overrule states on marijuana laws

posted at 12:15 pm on October 19, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

In a shocking move, the Obama administration has decided to embrace federalism.  Well, not really all that shocking, as the Department of Justice plans to reverse a Bush administration policy of enforcing federal marijuana laws in states that allow for medicinal use of the substance.  The decision, to be officially announced later today, will impact fourteen states that allow for the possession and distribution of marijuana under varying levels of medical supervision:

Federal drug agents won’t pursue pot-smoking patients or their sanctioned suppliers in states that allow medical marijuana, under new legal guidelines to be issued Monday by the Obama administration.

Two Justice Department officials described the new policy to The Associated Press, saying prosecutors will be told it is not a good use of their time to arrest people who use or provide medical marijuana in strict compliance with state law.

The guidelines to be issued by the department do, however, make it clear that agents will go after people whose marijuana distribution goes beyond what is permitted under state law or use medical marijuana as a cover for other crimes, the officials said.

The new policy is a significant departure from the Bush administration, which insisted it would continue to enforce federal anti-pot laws regardless of state codes.

Fourteen states allow some use of marijuana for medical purposes: Alaska, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington.

If we could count on this as an indicator for a trend towards federalism in the Obama administration, I’d call it the best development since Election Day.  Unfortunately, this is as much an aberration in the official approach to federalism as Bush’s insistence on overruling state authorities was to Bush’s overall view on federalism during his term in office, as Michelle reminds us today.  It serves as a reminder that Washington DC only discovers federalism when they can either make money off of it or save themselves a headache by invoking it.

Nevertheless, this is still a good development.  Not only does this forgo the spending of massive amounts of money in these fourteen states, it serves as an acknowledgment that states have sovereign rights themselves, including the right to make decisions about the legality of intoxicating substances.  Unlike the 18th Amendment, which gave the federal government jurisdiction over alcohol use and distribution for a brief period of prohibition, the federal government only has the jurisdiction over marijuana when it moves across state lines or national borders, and its use on federal land.

That acknowledgment may serve us well in other debates, especially on health care.  After all, if the Department of Justice now admits that it does not have the authority to override states on marijuana practices, then what authority does it have to force Americans to buy health insurance, through exchanges or anywhere else?  Where does Congress derive the authority to demand that states create those exchanges in the first place?  It will be interesting indeed to watch the federal government throw people in jail for refusing to buy health insurance while taking a pass on prosecuting marijuana distributors in California and Arizona.

On the point of marijuana, it also holds some promise as the first step in reviewing the war on the herb that costs us billions of dollars and infringes on personal liberties while attempting to protect us from ourselves — and a product less lethal than alcohol.  Maybe we can finally have a rational debate on at least this front of the “war on drugs,” which has done more damage to federalism than Democrats or Republicans combined.

Madison Conservative doesn’t share my enthusiasm for this precedent.  Be sure to read his take in the Green Room.


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whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 8:20 PM

Well unfortunately, Squids (of the non-cephalopod variety) and Japan don’t mix very well. :-)

I also agree with you on many of your points. My point is that if you decide to break a law (or a bull$h!t law) then you accept the fact that if caught, you’ll be punished. It is a personal decision and just because someone uses pot (which is no worse than booze) shouldn’t make them a criminal. Unfortunately, that’s the law on the books. I’m glad it isn’t my job to decide whether is should or should not be repealed, but as long as it’s illegal, I won’t smoke it and anyone who does needs to accept that they are in violation of the law.

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 8:31 PM

Did you ever stop and wonder who the first person was to look at a cannabis plant and thought, “hey, I wonder what would happen if I smoke this?”

For that matter, who thought about smoking anything, ever?

TheBigOldDog on October 19, 2009 at 8:32 PM

forgot to include:
The Cannabis Control Law, enacted in 1948 during the Allied occupation, bans the possession, cultivation and trading of cannabis. Under its terms, people possessing a single marijuana joint can be sent to sent to prison for five years and forced to do hard labor.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 8:34 PM

No, but then again, they’ve never been useful to society. Unless you count “Towelie” from South Park…

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 6:51

This is true! I miss Towelie. Where’s he been?

tbear44 on October 19, 2009 at 8:35 PM

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 8:34 PM

Do they enforce it?

TheBigOldDog on October 19, 2009 at 8:36 PM

TheBigOldDog on October 19, 2009 at 8:32 PM

I’ve sort of wondered about that mysekf. And also about the invention/discovery of coffee.
“Now let’s roast the beans, grind them up, pass water through it, and then drink the resultant liquid.”

I guess that’s a fair approximation.

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 8:36 PM

tbear44 on October 19, 2009 at 8:35 PM

Haven’t seen him since “A Million Little Fibers”.

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 8:37 PM

I’m glad it isn’t my job to decide whether is should or should not be repealed, but as long as it’s illegal.
Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 8:31 PM

My very point , sir, is that it is your “job” to decide whether it should be repealed or not. Your philosophies dictum is the default postion of acceptance of the law in it’s current form. It’s well worth your time to get involved in the fight against tyranny.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 8:38 PM

I did some work in CA and of the 12 workers assigned to me 6 had scripts for Pot. Those 6 plus 1 Deadhead who was sniffing a handful of sharpie markers made for an interesting crew. There were Pot vending machines at many locations to use your Pot Card as they called them. Let CA do what it pleases. It’s time for states to step forward and take power back from the feds.

TNHunter on October 19, 2009 at 8:42 PM

I’ve sort of wondered about that mysekf. And also about the invention/discovery of coffee.
“Now let’s roast the beans, grind them up, pass water through it, and then drink the resultant liquid.”

I guess that’s a fair approximation.

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 8:36 PM

Well, that I can sort of understand since it is essentially a food item being a seed so over time you can see how it could be discovered but taking a bud of a plant and smoking it? That’s wild. Maybe they were using it as a tea or something and threw some in a fire and it started that way… don’t know but it’s a great question to ponder stoned I bet (not that I would know mind you. I am just guessing – I said guessing – that it would be an interesting…)

TheBigOldDog on October 19, 2009 at 8:42 PM

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 8:38 PM

I agree. My opinion on the matter is that I am fine not smoking pot (my own personal decision) and that the laws are fine as they are.

As far as fighting tyranny, I’m more focused on foreign locals myself. You have all my support in your venture, however. If you and others who agree with you are able to get this law repealed, then you will have accomplished something truly noteworthy. I wish you the best of luck.

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 8:44 PM

and that the laws are fine as they are.
Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 8:44 PM

What’s fine about the laws? I was prepared to bring the dialogue to a close but then you make a declaration. I fully challenge you on your assertion. I doubt that you’ll be able to back up your assertion because your comfort with the law, as it is, is an emotional comfort that is neither based on logic nor a sense of liberty. And if this is the case then I’ve wasted my time with you.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 8:50 PM

From 1984 to 2009 I have lost ten or more jobs because I smoke pot.To hell with them.I show up on time and work harder then any one.If I get fired I go find another job.
Im doing the best I have ever done in my life.I live in my own home.Piss on the war on drugs.Its a war on the American
people.

Denniscat on October 19, 2009 at 9:01 PM

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 8:50 PM

Well you said that I should make my own personal decision regarding the matter. There are some things I feel very strongly about and some that I feel are less important and can be dealt with later. In a world where bad guys want to blow themselves and innocent civilians up in the name of Allah, legalization of pot takes a distant second in my book. You and I both agree that the treatment that pot users receive is unjust and even that the law can be draconian, but right now, my priorities are elsewhere. I’ll work on getting the badguys and you can work on repealing pot laws. Is that a deal?

I don’t think you are wrong in your beliefs or that your cause isn’t worth fighting for. I’m just more concerned about Osama Bin Laden right now (who frankly wants to kill all of us irregardless of what our vice(s) may be.)

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 9:03 PM

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 9:03 PM

Congrats on your service and if you’re ever on Okinawa then I’ll take to lunch at one of our fine Burger Kings here on base. To say that the laws are fine as they are is a very different thing than saying that you choose to not indulge in cannabis. I’m sure you understand the difference. One makes the choice for others and the latter is making the choice for yourself. btw Osama Bin Laden isn’t the worst person out there to concern yourself with. You’ll encounter much worse on the battle field.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 9:08 PM

From 1984 to 2009 I have lost ten or more jobs because I smoke pot.To hell with them.I show up on time and work harder then any one.If I get fired I go find another job.
Im doing the best I have ever done in my life.I live in my own home.Piss on the war on drugs.Its a war on the American
people.

Denniscat on October 19, 2009 at 9:01 PM

This boils down to priorities. Don’t sit idle, if you haven’t already, educate yourself and then educate others. The arugment is easy so long as you have the facts.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 9:10 PM

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 9:08 PM

I appreciate that. Thank you also for your service. Are you one of Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children or did you decide to Never Again Volunteer Yourself?

That I am well aware of. The world is full of very evil people.

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 9:12 PM

Did you ever stop and wonder who the first person was to look at a cannabis plant and thought, “hey, I wonder what would happen if I smoke this?”

For that matter, who thought about smoking anything, ever?

TheBigOldDog on October 19, 2009 at 8:32 PM

Before a flint way to start fire was discovered, burning wicks were carried from place to place to keep the people supplied with this vital element / weapon / tool …and these first twists of dry foliage turned into ‘cigars’ at some point.

Eventually replacing the original use with a world of pleasantly discovered side-effects.

The smoke even kept away stinging insects.

Taking advantage of a “flaw” ~and turning it into a cultural afterburner.

And hickory-smoked bacon!

Mmmmmmmm, mmmmmmm, mmmmm.

profitsbeard on October 19, 2009 at 9:14 PM

profitsbeard on October 19, 2009 at 9:14 PM

That’s a vice I am guilty of. Hmmmmm…. bacon!

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 9:16 PM

I’m prior my better-half is in now. Being here as a civ is way better than when I pumped here as a jarhead. You should try to make it to Okinawa if you get the chance. The SCUBA diving in unbelievable! The food is great and Japs are cool, for the most part.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 9:19 PM

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 9:19 PM

I tried to swing a stay in Yokosuka, Japan with no luck. I’ll have to bide my time for that one.

Thanks for the info on Okinawa, I’ll keep that in mind if I ever get the chance to see it.

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 9:25 PM

This herb shouldn’t have ever had a law prohibiting it’s use or growth. The only thing that did was create a mega huge underground for it that dwarfed the moonshine trade in scale.

Removing all prohibitions against it may free up some law enforcement to pursue other more important matters, but it will unfortunately drive the drug dealers to push harder, more lethal drugs to our kids.

So, at the same time marijuana is legalized if it ever is, they need to institute the death penalty for any dealer caught selling a narcotic to anyone under the age of 21, and life in a prison in Iran or Cuba for those caught selling it to people 21 or over.

That’ll curtail the nastier stuff a little, meanwhile the good ‘ole gov’t will make a fortune taxing pot sales.

Spiritk9 on October 19, 2009 at 9:25 PM

That’ll curtail the nastier stuff a little, meanwhile the good ‘ole gov’t will make a fortune taxing pot sales.

Spiritk9 on October 19, 2009 at 9:25 PM

Weed grows like a weed for free. It takes a bit of know-how to brew but with pot you can throw seeds in your back yard w/o another step involved. The taxation scheme would only work if they kept growing pot illegal.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 9:28 PM

I’ve sort of wondered about that mysekf. And also about the invention/discovery of coffee.
“Now let’s roast the beans, grind them up, pass water through it, and then drink the resultant liquid.”

I guess that’s a fair approximation.

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 8:36 PM

just imagine tending a flock of sheep in south america and noticing that when your sheep eat a particular been they get wired. You chew them and get a jolt of energy. Then you think “hey maybe I can extract the part that gives energy” The same logic follows for coca. S. American tribes used to process coca into a form of cocaine for hunting parties. It seems that the substance gave them energy and a hightened sense of alertness. go figure. I can imagine a forest swarming with crackheads armed with blowdarts and spears. Now that’s a funny thought.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 9:34 PM

Gateway? to what? Statistically alcohol and tobacco are more gatewayish (if that’s a word). Your Daughter going on a date is statistically a gateway to premarital sex. Your son watching showtime after 10 is a gateway to masterbation. Not having statistics and educating yourself before you speak is a gateway to sounding ignorant. You go ahead and go to the ONDCP’s website and pull stats to back up your claim and I’ll gladly respond. I’m waiting.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 7:50 PM

I’m not going to go hunting for stats and numbers you already are going to shrug off. There are conflicting studies all over the place, I can only go by what I have seen for myself. Tobacco slowly kills and Alcohol is a deadly poison but Pot is not some innocent little plant. Poison Ivy is a plant too, why don’t you go roll around in that for a bit. It is ridiculously potent these days, this ain’t your daddy’s weed from the ’60s.

If you want to smoke it, smoke your dead brain cells out, I don’t care. I’ve tried it, I don’t like it, but if it were made legal I wouldn’t go crazy about it. Just spare me the idiotic equivocation about going on a date being a gateway to premarital sex. If your daughter is a slut, she”ll spread her legs no matter what. However, if you raise her right and crack down on who she goes out with, she has less a chance of having premarital sex (what she does when she leaves the house is her business). It also helps if society frowns on it the way it used to. If I don’t want my kid jerking off to Showtime late at night, I will put on a parental lock and/or not allow a TV in his bedroom. Same thing with pot, many kids will experiment with it but keeping it illegal, policing it and having society look down on it will help keep a majority of them from becoming full blown pot heads.

I really don’t care about the issue, just stating my oponion so don’t get your hemp panties in a bunch over it, just don’t try and feed me BS about it being anything less than what it is, a drug.

Daemonocracy on October 19, 2009 at 9:36 PM

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 9:34 PM

Crack-head head hunters….the streets of South Chicago strangely feel much safer for some reason. :-)

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 9:42 PM

The US Department of Justice is too busy prosecuting CIA agents to enforce drug laws.

HondaV65 on October 19, 2009 at 9:45 PM

Daemonocracy on October 19, 2009 at 9:36 PM

I think the problem is drawing the line between what you as a parent can do to set limits for your children, what the government can do to set limits for it’s citizens, and what we as rational, autonomous humans can do with our bodies.

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 9:45 PM

I’m not going to go hunting for stats and numbers you already are going to shrug off.

exactly, you can’t

Tobacco slowly kills and Alcohol is a deadly poison but Pot is not some innocent little plant.

I would never assign morality to a substance or object.

Poison Ivy is a plant too, why don’t you go roll around in that for a bit.

I would never roll around in poison ivy because I’m allergic, but you won’t catch me telling you that you’re not allowed to or put you in jail for doing so.

It is ridiculously potent these days, this ain’t your daddy’s weed from the ’60s.

Titration solves that. You don’t drink a gallon of 151 do you? And if you did you’d only do it once, because you’d surely die. If you smoke too much pot you’ll eat something and sleep for a bit.

If you want to smoke it, smoke your dead brain cells out, I don’t care. I’ve tried it, I don’t like it, but if it were made legal I wouldn’t go crazy about it.

You presume to know too much about my brain cells. If you don’t like pot, alcohol or tobacco then just stay away from it. You don’t have to point the finger.

Just spare me the idiotic equivocation about going on a date being a gateway to premarital sex.

Spare me the false conclusion that cannabis is a gateway “drug” because it’s a plant. Stats needed to back up your initial assertion are beneath your assertion? Right.

If your daughter is a slut, she”ll spread her legs no matter what. However, if you raise her right and crack down on who she goes out with, she has less a chance of having premarital sex

Correct, I’ve capitalized many times from this knowledge (with other’s daughters) Point 2 -not likely, the immense urge to splurge is overwhelming, universal and not the point.

If I don’t want my kid jerking off to Showtime late at night, I will put on a parental lock and/or not allow a TV in his bedroom.

That’s just plain un-American and cruel. btw if you go this route I’ll advise to hide any JC penny catalogue, Bottles of Aunt Jamima syrup or anything that remotely resemble the female form because if he’s anything like I was when puberty hit it didn’t take much resemblence to envoke my pubescent ritual.

Same thing with pot, many kids will experiment with it but keeping it illegal, policing it and having society look down on it will help keep a majority of them from becoming full blown pot heads.

Wrong – it simply makes them gravitate towards a more harmful substance; namely alcohol. Altered states of conciousness is a natural propensity. Evidence? I submit your local LIQUER STORE as evidence. Another HUGE ill effect is that prohibition makes criminals out of people that shouldn’t be considered criminals. This has devestating effects.

I really don’t care about the issue, just stating my oponion so don’t get your hemp panties in a bunch over it, just don’t try and feed me BS about it being anything less than what it is, a drug.
Daemonocracy on October 19, 2009 at 9:36 PM

You’d make more sense in calling my assertion Bullshit if you could disprove what I state. You can’t but I, on the other hand, can assert that your assertion is Bullshit. And I do, sir or ma’am.

Okay, so now we’re at the part where you roll your eyes and say “Whatever”.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 9:59 PM

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 9:59 PM

I have to say I’m impressed with your rebuttal, sir.

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 10:07 PM

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 9:59 PM
I have to say I’m impressed with your rebuttal, sir.

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 10:07 PM

Brother, it ain’t rocket science, just facts and the knowledge thereof. Read up cuz it’s all free and readily available. As far as opinions go, well that’s a matter of personal preference. Liberty ensures your preference as well as that of others. It’s a win-win situation.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 10:11 PM

It is not a good development.

corona on October 19, 2009 at 10:41 PM

http://www.canorml.org/news/supremesandiego.html

The Supreme Court doesn’t want to touch this one.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 10:52 PM

On the point of marijuana, it also holds some promise as the first step in reviewing the war on the herb that costs us billions of dollars and infringes on personal liberties while attempting to protect us from ourselves — and a product less lethal than alcohol.

There is a reason there is a ‘war on the herb’. It is an intoxicating, highly mind altering, substance. The ‘herb’ of today isn’t the same Columbian dirt weed you bought in junior high school that required smoking so much to get a buzz that your head pounded for a full day afterwards. Marijuana has been selectively crossbred and genetically altered to the point that the THC yield is dramatically higher and extremely more potent than it was in your long gone youth. It is so potent now that it causes brain damage with chronic use. It is so potent now that it is addicting with chronic use.

Infringes on what personal liberties? If there is a law criminalizing certain action and behavior, and if that law is broken then brought to the attention of Law Enforcement personnel who then uphold those laws by whatever means the law makes available to them, there is no infringement.

Less lethal than alcohol in what way? That you can smoke it till you puke and you won’t risk death? How many cases of people drinking themselves to death do we hear about every a year compared to the vast numbers of people who imbibe alcoholic beverages? Maybe you refer to that notion that marijuana doesn’t impair you as much as alcoholic beverages do? Or maybe you refer to a notion that marijuana doesn’t cause people to go on a violent rampage? Or, maybe it’s just a blanket statement that marijuana is less everything than alcoholic beverages are. So, legalize dope and we can have people who are super high on chronic strong dope AND drunk on alcohol walking and driving our streets.

Where does it stop after we decriminalize marijuana? Will we decriminalize cocaine, heroin, LSD, peyote, psilocybin mushrooms, crystal meth, and everything else that’ll get you stoned too? Fat lot of good a country full of drug addicted stoned people will do us.

What kind of lunatic considers mind altering drugs to be okay for general public consumption? The kind of lunatic who just wants his dope without the worry.

Legalization of marijuana for the general public will bring out organized crime providing marijuana at cut-rates underselling legally provided marijuana whether it be legally provided by government run stores or ‘co-ops’. It will bring a whole host of problems with it that we already deal with now, but at an all time higher level.

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) — Amsterdam unveiled plans Saturday to close up to half of the famed brothels and marijuana cafes in its ancient city center as part of a major cleanup operation.

The city says it wants to drive organized crime out of the district, and is targeting businesses that “generate criminality,” including prostitution, gambling parlors, “smart shops” that sell herbal treatments, head shops and “coffee shops” where marijuana is sold openly.

“I think that the new reality will be more in line with our image as a tolerant and crazy place, rather than a free zone for criminals” said alderman Lodewijk Asscher, one of the main proponents of the plan.

SilverStar830 on October 19, 2009 at 10:53 PM

There is a reason there is a ‘war on the herb’. It is an intoxicating, highly mind altering, substance. The ‘herb’ of today isn’t the same Columbian dirt weed you bought in junior high school that required smoking so much to get a buzz that your head pounded for a full day afterwards. Marijuana has been selectively crossbred and genetically altered to the point that the THC yield is dramatically higher and extremely more potent than it was in your long gone youth. It is so potent now that it causes brain damage with chronic use. It is so potent now that it is addicting with chronic use.

Drug Category Proportion Of Users That Ever Became Dependent
Tobacco 32%
Alcohol 15%
Marijuana (including hashish) 9%
Cocaine 17%
Heroin 23%

We call people who drink too much drunks and people who smoke too much potheads. We call people who drink responsibly “casual drinkers” but we call people who smoke casually “?” nothing because you’ll never know how many people truly smoke casually because they’re afraid of being thrown into a jailcell w/ murderers, rapists, real drug addicts etc

“In summary, although few marijuana users develop dependence, some do. But they appear to be less likely to do so than users of other drugs (including alcohol and nicotine), and marijuana dependence appears to be less severe than dependence on other drugs.” [p. 98]
http://books.nap.edu/booksearch.php?term=marijuana&record_id=6376

Infringes on what personal liberties? If there is a law criminalizing certain action and behavior, and if that law is broken then brought to the attention of Law Enforcement personnel who then uphold those laws by whatever means the law makes available to them, there is no infringement.

Personal Liberty is just what it means. I can understand if someone intervenes if a loved one has a problem (namely a medical problem like addiction) but not the government when it comes to benign substances. As far as ice, meth, crack etc intervention is a must, but in a medical context. Dealers of these substances deserve death. The massive ill effects on society are inrefutable and prevalent. imho

Less lethal than alcohol in what way?

Annual Causes of Death in the United States
Tobacco 435,0001
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,0001
Alcohol 85,000 1
Microbial Agents 75,0001
Toxic Agents 55,0001
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,3471
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,0002
Suicide 30,6223
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,0001
Homicide 20,3084
Sexual Behaviors 20,0001
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,0001, 5
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,6006
Marijuana 07
RESPONSE TO YOUR ? = IN EVERYWAY

That you can smoke it till you puke and you won’t risk death?

That’s true! Not that I recommend that one indulge in any substance to this point.

How many cases of people drinking themselves to death do we hear about every a year compared to the vast numbers of people who imbibe alcoholic beverages?

1 in 25 globally
http://addictionsawareness.com/2009/06/1-in-25-deaths-worldwide-linked-to-alcohol-consumption-study-finds/

Maybe you refer to that notion that marijuana doesn’t impair you as much as alcoholic beverages do?

Another Truth… man you’re on a roll here!

Or maybe you refer to a notion that marijuana doesn’t cause people to go on a violent rampage?

Yes, Yes please don’t stop!

Or, maybe it’s just a blanket statement that marijuana is less everything than alcoholic beverages are. So, legalize dope and we can have people who are super high on chronic strong dope AND drunk on alcohol walking and driving our streets.

Taking any mind altering substance and aimlessly walking streets and driving a vehicle are both bad ideas. Why do you presume that smoking cannabis would enevitably result in coaxing responsible adults to do this. Right, the alcohol thing. We have a response for this in the form of DUI’s that are severe and yet people still do it. Once again, seeking altered states of conciousness are a natural propensity that we harbor.

Where does it stop after we decriminalize marijuana? Will we decriminalize cocaine, heroin, LSD, peyote, psilocybin mushrooms, crystal meth, and everything else that’ll get you stoned too?

I’ll refer you to my previous statement on the other substances. But it’s important to note that what you put into your body doesn’t make you a criminal. Your actions may but it’s incumbant upon you to regulate yourself. If you don’t then there’s a response to that as well.

Fat lot of good a country full of drug addicted stoned people will do us.

I’d have more respect for you if you took the stance of banning all substances, although I would severely disagree.

What kind of lunatic considers mind altering drugs to be okay for general public consumption?

This reminds me of the communist quote ” You have to crack the egg to make an omelet” Public consumption.. How’a’bout individual consumption. Your attempt to confound the issue is noted.

The kind of lunatic who just wants his dope without the worry.

How’a’bout Someone just wanting the gdamn government to stay out of his business? If said person commits a real offense then by all means react.

Legalization of marijuana for the general public will bring out organized crime providing marijuana at cut-rates underselling legally provided marijuana whether it be legally provided by government run stores or ‘co-ops’. It will bring a whole host of problems with it that we already deal with now, but at an all time higher level.

Incorrect- Prohibition has created a black-market much in the same way that alcohol prohibition created rich gangsters in the 30′s. Al Capone, ever heard of him? He was a two bit gangster b/f Prohibition made him an equivalent Billionare. People will pay. Once again a natural propensity.

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) — Amsterdam unveiled plans Saturday to close up to half of the famed brothels and marijuana cafes in its ancient city center as part of a major cleanup operation.

The city says it wants to drive organized crime out of the district, and is targeting businesses that “generate criminality,” including prostitution, gambling parlors, “smart shops” that sell herbal treatments, head shops and “coffee shops” where marijuana is sold openly.

“I think that the new reality will be more in line with our image as a tolerant and crazy place, rather than a free zone for criminals” said alderman Lodewijk Asscher, one of the main proponents of the plan.
SilverStar830 on October 19, 2009 at 10:53 PM

The issue here is misrepresented. Amsterdam is a Mecca for youth that is immature and sewing the oats, so to speak. Much in the way that Tijuana was for me in my Testosterone crazed days. I’ll refer you to Spain/Portugals approach. You cite a very poor example that we can debate further, if you like?

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Well, now that libertarians(and pot heads) will have their pot more freely…will they support Obama?

Anyone wanna guess this will raise Obama’s approval numbers?

b1jetmech on October 19, 2009 at 11:43 PM

Libertarians hardly brick-support Obama. I can’t stand the fool myself.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 11:45 PM

Libertarians hardly brick-support Obama. I can’t stand the fool myself.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 11:45 PM

Obama needs to keep nose diving into irrelevance. Yes, I want him to fail for the sake of the country. I’m hoping this issue doesn’t give him a revival because some potheads are TOO sympathetic to this cause ans will back him. Myself, the only vice I deal with is pizza…Mmmmmmmmm!

b1jetmech on October 19, 2009 at 11:52 PM

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 11:23 PM

As far as crazy places to blow off steam, may I suggest Hong Kong?

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 11:57 PM

Obama needs to keep nose diving into irrelevance. Yes, I want him to fail for the sake of the country. I’m hoping this issue doesn’t give him a revival because some potheads are TOO sympathetic to this cause ans will back him. Myself, the only vice I deal with is pizza…Mmmmmmmmm!

b1jetmech on October 19, 2009 at 11:52 PM

I agree with you 100%. Fanatics will sell there country for a single issue. My main issues are personal liberty, property rights, small gov etc. These precepts take care of everything else. I’m glad that he’s taking this step forward just as I would be if any prez did but I know a snake when I see one. Ulterior motive abound in politics.

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 11:58 PM

For that matter, who thought about smoking anything, ever?

TheBigOldDog on October 19, 2009 at 8:32 PM

Interesting question. My guess is that somebody tried using it as a seasoning first, and when cooked, especially in an oily dish, they may have discovered it’s properties accidentally. Smoking is another question. Perhaps it started as an archaic method of preserving fire thousands of years ago.

FloatingRock on October 20, 2009 at 12:00 AM

whiskeytango on October 19, 2009 at 11:23 PM
As far as crazy places to blow off steam, may I suggest Hong Kong?

Rightwingguy on October 19, 2009 at 11:57 PM

Sure, I suppose TJ is a no-go in light of what’s going on down there with filthy rich drug cartels (due to black-market procedes) waring it out. I had to take the opportunity, sorry. hehe

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 12:00 AM

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 12:00 AM

You and many, many others from what I’ve heard. Last time I checked Tango Juliet was off limits or at least strictly discouraged as a vacationing spot.

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:03 AM

Fanatics will sell there country for a single issue

Bravo Zulu. Great analysis.

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:04 AM

Fanatics will sell there country for a single issue
Bravo Zulu. Great analysis.

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:04 AM

It’s TRUE! I’ll debate issues of Liberty of any sort, or shall I say I’ll attempt to. I feel that it’s my duty as a Free-man whom wants to stay a Free Man. Once you cede Liberties then you most likely will never get them back. As is the simple, logical, and obvious case with cannabis. But the draconian law is but one of many. Rightwingguy, what is the point to fight for a country with your life and not with your mind, sir? As I’ve said before, It is your obligation to fight for truth and Liberty. The more you study and think on things the more you will show yourself approved by logic; hopefully because this should be the goal. Opinions are virtually worthless in the grand scheme because they are mostly emotionally trained responses grounded in brainwashing, not facts.

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 12:13 AM

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 12:13 AM

I agree. Sometimes in certain occupations, it doesn’t help to think too much about politics. (I’m sure you know all about this.) However, I believe that is is up to every rational adult to examine the facts for themselves and come to their own conclusion based upon such facts. I may disagree with another’s result, but I can hardly fault him for his conclusion. In life there is never one correct answer. However, the wrong answer always is unquestioning acceptance.

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:22 AM

However, the wrong answer always is unquestioning acceptance.

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:22 AM

Exactly, so long as the FACTS are truly present. In most cases, however, they rarely are. This is what I mean and why I take the time to retort. I haven’t seen, correct me if I’m wrong, any facts or logical reasoning to dispell my own logic or the truth that I factually support. Until I do, I’ll not be satisfied with the status quo.

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 12:27 AM

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 12:27 AM

Never be satisfied with the status quo.

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:36 AM

It is ridiculously potent these days, this ain’t your daddy’s weed from the ’60s.

Heh. Acapulco Gold, Maui Woweee, Thai Sticks, I could go on. There was some good stuff in the 60′s (available in the U.S.). Or so I heard…

tbear44 on October 20, 2009 at 12:36 AM

bear44 on October 20, 2009 at 12:36 AM

Funny, everyone has heard stuff from a friend. I’ve never heard a story told in the first person. :-)

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:40 AM

Ya Know?

tbear44 on October 20, 2009 at 12:45 AM

As a winter caretaker in a remote Alaskan lodge, even though I am a conservative and have loved my country for all of my 54 years, I can honestly say if someone sent me some weed in the mail, I would smoke it! LOL

tbear44 on October 20, 2009 at 12:53 AM

As a winter caretaker in a remote Alaskan lodge, even though I am a conservative and have loved my country for all of my 54 years, I can honestly say if someone sent me some weed in the mail, I would smoke it! LOL

tbear44 on October 20, 2009 at 12:53 AM

quit pandering! lol

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 12:54 AM

tbear44 on October 20, 2009 at 12:53 AM

I think there are times in our life when we have all experienced the “Ehh, what the heck?” moment in our lives. Winter caretaker? Reminds me of “The Shining”. Man, if you have to turn to drugs to keep your sanity, by all means do it. Anything to avoid seeing ghosts and attempting to murder your family. :-)

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:55 AM

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 12:27 AM
Never be satisfied with the status quo.

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:36 AM

status quo isn’t an inherent good or bad thing. it just mean “the state in which” which could go either way. My attempt is at changing status quo into a better one.

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 12:57 AM

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:55 AM

Anybody think Jack Torrance would have flipped out if he had a steady supply of weed?

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:57 AM

At any rate, I must bid everyone good night. I’ve got work tomorrow. Great convo WhiskeyTango. Everybody: Goodnight and stay safe.

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:59 AM

Actually I do quite well w/out weed. Thank God for satellite dishes!

tbear44 on October 20, 2009 at 12:59 AM

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:55 AM
Anybody think Jack Torrance would have flipped out if he had a steady supply of weed?

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:57 AM

There was a schizo in my unit that did something is Thailand that sent him into an episode. He walked around on ship masterbating, wrapped naked in a sheet like a toga, saying that he was jesus and then the devil– In fron of Officers. You could see the craziness in his eyes.

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 1:00 AM

tbear44 on October 20, 2009 at 12:59 AM

That stuff is great too. More expensive, but legal.

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 1:00 AM

At any rate, I must bid everyone good night. I’ve got work tomorrow. Great convo WhiskeyTango. Everybody: Goodnight and stay safe.

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 12:59 AM

Indeed, and goodnight. Reville comes early.

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 1:01 AM

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 1:01 AM

Too early…

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 1:02 AM

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 1:00 AM

O-!: “What the hell? This isn’t covered in the Naval Officer Guide!”

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 1:03 AM

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 1:03 AM

Correction: should be read “O-1″

Anyway, goodnight!

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 1:03 AM

It seems to me there should be very few federal crimes. The vast majority of crimes should be state crimes. About the only federal crime should be treason. So I am on board with this policy change.

Dasher on October 20, 2009 at 1:05 AM

It is ridiculously potent these days, this ain’t your daddy’s weed from the ’60s.

Daemonocracy on October 19, 2009 at 9:36 PM

That’s great news! In the 60′s, from the sound of it, weed was pathetically impotent. People had to smoke massive quantities to achieve the desired result causing far more harm to their lungs than the more potent varieties available today.

The reality is that physiology hasn’t changed since the “’60s”. Not even since 60 A.D. Humans are humans. If they imbibe too much THC, they fall asleep. People smoke as much as they need to—too much and it ruins the high. So the more potent MJ is the less harm it causes to their lungs, because they don’t have to ingest as much particulate matter. The high is the same, perhaps a somewhat better today than in the 60′s, but the harm is significantly reduced.

Net gain.

However, it is a myth that MJ is more potent today than any time in history. MJ was sold by drug companies in the 20′s that was more potent than available presently.

FloatingRock on October 20, 2009 at 1:09 AM

That stuff is great too. More expensive, but legal.

Rightwingguy on October 20, 2009 at 1:00 AM

Yeah it is, but actually if I had a half ounce of weed on the table when the State Trooper dropped in he would not even blink as it would be legal for me to have that in my home (this is my residence address). High Times Magazine went nuts over the fact that pot became legal here in 1975. It did not change our state one iota. However, there is a problem with all other drugs in all areas of the state now, and it is not a good thing. DOC is one of the leading industries in this state and I am sure most of the parole/probation violations are drug related. As with probably any other state in the union. Pot is never going to go away. Other drugs maybe, but not pot.

tbear44 on October 20, 2009 at 1:13 AM

Have you all seen this yet ?
Don’t ask , don’t smell

macncheez on October 20, 2009 at 3:36 AM

You vote for slavery to a weed and the man that grows it.

Count to 10 on October 19, 2009 at 2:21 PM

Marijuana is not addictive. Don’t want to buy it? Like you would with any plant, grow it yourself!

Libertarian Joseph on October 20, 2009 at 7:14 AM

Um, you wanna talk the history of government and the drug trade, check when drug culture really takes off: when we say you’re ENTITLED to a home, ENTITLED to an income, ENTITLED to health care.

Chris_Balsz on October 20, 2009 at 8:17 AM

Um, you wanna talk the history of government and the drug trade, check when drug culture really takes off: when we say you’re ENTITLED to a home, ENTITLED to an income, ENTITLED to health care.

Chris_Balsz on October 20, 2009 at 8:17 AM

I’m not sure if I should agree or disagree or possibly learn something from you here. Mainly, because I have no idea of what talking about. Clarify, please.

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 8:20 AM

Let the natural selection process begin.

watson007 on October 20, 2009 at 9:22 AM

A basketball in every house and weed on every table.
Maybe Pelosi needs to smoke some of that sh**. It may actually RAISE her IQ.

I am so disgusted right now I don’t know what to say.

johnnyU on October 20, 2009 at 9:49 AM

I just watched the special on TV last night about a town overtaken by people gutting houses to grow that crap, the fires from the stupidity and so on. They let the genie out of the bottle now we watch as these nit wits live for the weed. It was like an episode of ‘body snatchers’ where they had to thrive to grow more pods. Of course they’d love to see us numb from whats going on, so spread the weed right? un-f’n real.

johnnyU on October 20, 2009 at 9:53 AM

I’m not sure if I should agree or disagree or possibly learn something from you here. Mainly, because I have no idea of what talking about. Clarify, please.
whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 8:20 AM

It’s not that drugs were prevalent and normal, and government caught on to the bureaucratic usefulness of a crackdown. Drug use was not rampant until we agreed to make earning a living, irrelevant to obtaining the means to survival.

Chris_Balsz on October 20, 2009 at 9:54 AM

Guilt by association is a logical fallacy. Just FYI.

SirGawain on October 19, 2009 at 1:26 PM

No, guilt by association is a logical analysis…part of the analytical puzzle.
The term “guilt by association” is born from the liberals trying to deny that Obama going to a leftist church, friend of Ayres, friend of Dorn, friend of ACORN, were associations that prove nothing…you bought the liberal line.

right2bright on October 20, 2009 at 9:56 AM

What everyone misses is the context. The legalization, in this case is secondary.
Obama has told his DoJ to ignore this law.
It is a pattern, here is others along the same line.
Ignore tax invasion
Ignore voter fraud
Ignore voter intimidation
Ignore border security
Ignore illegal immigrants
Ignore illegal campaign contributions
Ignore campaign promises
Ignore abortions
Each of these he has asked the DoJ to step aside and not pursue.
This one issue may or may not be valid, but when looking at his philosophy of ignoring anything that he does not agree with (basically voting “present”), he has established a pattern of disrespecting the law. Ignoring it to promulgate his views.
He chooses each one, knowing that a certain segment will support his decision, and he hides behind that veil.
All you cheering this have fallen for his ploy…you are so easily manipulated.
You give up the most precious of all, the rule of law, for a little self satisfaction.
He has played the weak perfectly…and you supporters prove why he is president…..he owns you.

right2bright on October 20, 2009 at 10:05 AM

It’s not that drugs were prevalent and normal, and government caught on to the bureaucratic usefulness of a crackdown. Drug use was not rampant until we agreed to make earning a living, irrelevant to obtaining the means to survival.

Chris_Balsz on October 20, 2009 at 9:54 AM

Are you kidding? Drugs were a huge problem in olden days. Haven’t you watched Tombstone?

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 10:50 AM

right2bright on October 20, 2009 at 10:05 AM

You’re spot on. It’s a political play pure and simple; not the solution.

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 10:52 AM

MARIJUANA HITS SESAME STREET!

Cybergeezer on October 20, 2009 at 7:15 PM

Link was supposed to be posted??????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWU6QPfYDew&feature=related

Cybergeezer on October 20, 2009 at 7:17 PM

Are you kidding? Drugs were a huge problem in olden days. Haven’t you watched Tombstone?

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Never seen it. I do know, from The War Wagon, that one in eight cowboys had 2 Chinese wives.

Chris_Balsz on October 20, 2009 at 8:51 PM

Never seen it. I do know, from The War Wagon, that one in eight cowboys had 2 Chinese wives.

Chris_Balsz on October 20, 2009 at 8:51 PM

opium guaranteed, right?

whiskeytango on October 20, 2009 at 9:15 PM

I just watched the special on TV last night about a town overtaken by people gutting houses to grow that crap, the fires from the stupidity and so on. They let the genie out of the bottle now we watch as these nit wits live for the weed.

Firstly, the grow houses were ran by criminal elements and greedy people that don’t care about their neighbors. These people do exist on every street. And yes, idiots smoke week just as any other scenario that you can think up. Idiots drink beer, drive cars, serve you food, manage you, work for you etc. What’s your point? To half-way legalize/decrim something is asking for even more trouble in the first place. You keep the black-market in place in tandem with a semi-legal one. Bad combo

It was like an episode of ‘body snatchers’ where they had to thrive to grow more pods.

You’re going to have to explain this one because it sounds like pure hyperbole.

Of course they’d love to see us numb from whats going on, so spread the weed right? un-f’n real.

What’s goin’ on down on your street everyday? I could care less about spreading weed and you’d be suprised to learn that hardly anyone cares about spreading weed. Except for the criminal element that is enriched and empowered due to the blackmarket created. If it were legal the I’d just throw some seeds in my backyard, done.

whiskeytango on October 21, 2009 at 5:17 AM

right2bright on October 20, 2009 at 10:05 AM

So; The DOJ goes to work every day and plays solitaire and online poker?

Cybergeezer on October 21, 2009 at 9:11 AM

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