Vitter: Reid wants illegals counted in the Census
posted at 11:36 am on October 15, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
Senator David Vitter has tried to attach an amendment to the Commerce, Justice, and Science appropriation for FY2010 to clarify that the Census should restrict its counts to people in the US legally. The Hill reports that Vitter accuses Harry Reid of attempting to block a vote on the amendment, which might have serious consequences for California and other states with large populations of illegal aliens. Vitter claims that California got as many as five extra Congressional districts from the 2000 Census after their failure to determine status:
Sen. David Vitter (R-La.), who is sponsoring an amendment to an appropriations bill that would require illegal immigrants list their status on next year’s Census, said late Wednesday that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) wants them counted amongst the general population instead.
The senator claimed that Reid wants illegals to be counted in the 2010 Census so that left-leaning states with high illegal immigrant populations could increase the size of their congressional delegations. The Census is a major factor in determining the each state’s share of the 435 seats in the House of Representatives.
“I think it’s pretty clear that Harry Reid and the Democratic side…wants illegals counted in the Census, wants illegals in the reapportionment of the House,” Vitter said on a conservative talk radio show late yesterday.
Vitter, who is co-sponsoring the measure with Sen. Bob Bennett (R-Utah), claimed that illegals counted in the 2000 Census allowed California to maintain up to five additional seats in Congress they should not have.
Each seat represents 690,000 American residents at the moment, although in 2000 it would have been closer to 640,000, as population grew about 8% since the last census. Would California’s illegals have amounted to 3.2 million? That would be the upper reaches of estimates for illegal immigrants in the Golden State, but probably not outside the realm of possibility. If they all got counted, it could have skewed the allocation of seats in the House as much as Vitter claims.
Critics will say that the Census is not an enforcement agency for immigration, and they’d be correct. However, no one says that the Census Bureau has to act as an enforcement agency, either. They do not need to call the cops if they discover that residents have no legal status to remain in the country. They do need, however, to document it, for a couple of reasons. The lesser reason is that it will give us some real data on which to base immigration enforcement and/or reform legislation in the near future — Barack Obama says it’s one of his key priorities — instead of relying on guesswork from contradictory resources on the subject.
More importantly, though, is the core purpose of the Census itself. The Constitution requires the Census to properly calculate the legal population in order to apportion representation in the House for the states. Not only does counting illegal immigrants have no legitimacy for that purpose, it penalizes those states who act to enforce American law and reward those that act as “sanctuaries” in defiance of the law and national security.
Below, Vitter makes his argument on the Senate floor. This amendment needs a vote so we can see how our Senators support and defend the Constitution.
Update: Jazz Shaw notes that millions of the forms have already been printed and would have to be replaced if Vitter’s amendment passes:
However, there is one significant problem with Vitter’s move which Ed doesn’t touch on in his article. We’ve already printed tens or hundreds of millions of the forms, with roughly 15 million more currently being printed every day. We’re fast approaching the time when they will all have to be correlated and mailed out. Starting over now would not only throw off the timing, but would cost a lot of money.
So if we’re to object to Vitter’s amendment on any grounds at all, it would be, “Good idea, but how did you not manage to think of this last year?” Surely he is aware of this, and it just adds a bit of a stench to the proceedings as if he’s just trying to shut the census process down at this point, which is simply out of the question. It’s a valid point he raises, however, and we should definitely address this before the 2020 head count.
Jazz’ point is also well taken, but what would be the actual cost? Unless we’re printing on parchment, I doubt that the cost to stop and reprint would amount to more than $100 million. In fact, as Senator Bennett points out, all that really needs to happen is to print an additional sheet for the new question and include in in the packets, which would result in much lower extra costs.
In the end, we are going to use the data to reapportion state representation in the House of Representatives. That’s a once-a-decade task, one that greatly impacts the kind of policies this nation will adopt, and getting it right would be well worth the additional cost. We can certainly pay for it by cutting out some or all of the earmarks in the upcoming Defense appropriation, or even a few in this appropriation.
Update II: My friend Michael Stickings at the liberal blog The Reaction also wonders why the Census doesn’t already ask this question, which he sees as entirely legitimate for its constitutional purpose.
You must be logged in to post a comment.

















Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2
Sure. But that isn’t the way it has been done historically. If history and precedent are against you then you face a bit of struggle even if you are the party in power. If you are the party out of power it becomes harder.
dieudonne on October 15, 2009 at 12:41 PM
But they are in charge of counting noses for the purpose of Congressional apportionment. That means the question has to be asked and those without legal status shouldn’t expect representation in Congress. Period.
Gotta wonder though- Could it be that Dems are fearful that the residents at 1600 Penn. Ave. includes an illegal alien?
highhopes on October 15, 2009 at 12:41 PM
Do you not understand the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL?
You’re clearly confused and talking in circles-are you angling to get the most prolific poster of the day?
HornetSting on October 15, 2009 at 12:42 PM
National ID card solves this problem and the taking of the Census at the same time.
The database would hold information on the number of citizens as well as geographical location. Am I correct that only adult population is considered when counting representation in the House?
I know that wouldn’t include children, but can’t they mine that information from tax returns or similar?
TexasDan on October 15, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Since the count is also used to appropriate federal and state dollars into those sanctuaries, the restriction on including illegals in the count could have the effect over the next decade of changing that policy and shutting down the sanctuary status.
In the first census (1790) all persons were counted who lived in dwellings (land owners) and the categories were white male, white female, other free persons, slaves. American Indians were counted as other free as were free blacks. There were restrictions on who could own land.
Texas Gal on October 15, 2009 at 12:45 PM
No but I am trying to respond to everybody that has responded to me. I very rarely have the time to post at all much less respond to people that respond.
I also think it’s clear that I do understand the difference. I’m saying that all prior census counts have counted people ILLEGAL or not. If we want that to change – fine. But it’s new and we should be trying to make constitutional arguments. If it’s new we need to be honest about that up front and start arguing for why it should change.
There are good reasons for counting every living person and then limiting franchise rather than only counting legal citizens. There are also good reasons for only counting legal citizens. That debate should happen.
dieudonne on October 15, 2009 at 12:46 PM
Reid sounds desperate. The last gasps of a passe pol!
jeanie on October 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Count the illegals, then substract their numbers from each corresponding district’s total.
Next.
Christien on October 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Further to your point, the apportionment of representatives under Article I was amended by the 14th A which states:
“Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed.”
Firefly_76 on October 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM
I’m thinking you’re right. From a few of the other links in the thread it looks like there’s nothing constitutionally in place to separate between legal and illegal in the census.
Which… is kind of stupid.
Agreed.
BadgerHawk on October 15, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Bingo. Whole numbers. Not legal citizens – whole numbers.
dieudonne on October 15, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Ed, I’m not sure that picture of Vitter on the home page is good especially with Charles Johnson going after you guys. The headline is about illegal immigration and look at Vitter’s hand. CJ accused European sports fans of Nazism for less than a 45 degree angle tilt. ((BTW ~ if you have any European friends they will tell you the putting fingers up in the air and arching them is akin to a kind of ‘flipping the bird’ of a sort that means something like you’re an idiot.))
Sultry Beauty on October 15, 2009 at 12:50 PM
UGH, NO National ID card, thank you. Next, we’ll be wearing our political affiliations on our shirts, walking around with implanted chips and we’ll have a federal firearms registry. . .
Firefly_76 on October 15, 2009 at 12:50 PM
From the HA headlines and I will repeat my post there-
Hence the waving of the Mexican flag during amnesty marches every May 1st.
Mexicans here illegally have NO INTENTION of becoming US citizens, nor do they lose their allegiance to Mexico. They just want to milk our system. They don’t want US citizenship.
It is time to get real-we cannot support another country’s welfare class-GO back to Mexico. NOW!
HornetSting on October 15, 2009 at 12:51 PM
You know, I hope, I really really hope, that the people who were up in arms over amnesty when Bush had a hand in it, I hope that those people are ready to storm the Bastille over this.
These creeps in DC will leave no strategy untried to seal themselves up into a cocoon and make themselves unremovable from power.
Aitch748 on October 15, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Ok … what’s the deal with the blog war thing? I obviously missed something huge while I was on vacation. Or at least something petty that somebody was able to puff up into something huge.
dieudonne on October 15, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Thank you for the response. I agree, we should count illegal aliens SO we can know exactly how many people are here, breaking our laws and using our services-ILLEGALLY! Then, we can throw that number back at our congressional members and president present, who want to make these law breakers American citizens. Many of these people do not WANT to be citizens. They are already citizens, of Mexico, and their allegiance to Mexico does not waver as they take American’s jobs (construction, hospitality-there are businesses that are hurt because THEY are playing by the rules and not hiring illegal alien labor) and use our entitlement programs.
It WOULD be nice to have a good number on how many illegal aliens are here so we can then show how many of those ‘poor and needy people only here for a job’ are actually being housed in jails for breaking laws, such as murder, rape, child molestation, assault and battery, etc……
BUT, we should NEVER allow illegal aliens to be counted for political purposes.
Just because the census numbers have been altered by illegal alien numbers does not mean we should continue to make the same mistake over and over again in the future.
HornetSting on October 15, 2009 at 1:00 PM
I’m a fan of freedom, but we all walk around with photo ID already. The fact that it’s by state vs federal doesn’t make a big difference IMHO. I think it could be a great step to clearing up voter fraud, too. Which is why it won’t ever happen.
TexasDan on October 15, 2009 at 1:02 PM
I hope you are right. I will work to unseat him next year, but the RJ carried a small blurb today that Reid has raised 2 million dollars in 3 months. I’m worried that Dems outside Nevada are determined to keep him and will do anything to see that happen. They saw what Dashle went through and will fight bitterly to stop the same from happening here.
We are going to need the help of people outside Nevada to get rid of Dingy “pinky” Reid.
Jvette on October 15, 2009 at 1:09 PM
I kinda agree with you. I have a picture ID already and I don’t believe for a moment that the Feds don’t already have access to that. In the age of internet database thingies whizzing about it might as well be Federal.
That being said I also live in east Texas and have a fairly good idea of how people will react to it. I’d let it go for now.
dieudonne on October 15, 2009 at 1:10 PM
I appreciate your points, but state and local officials oversee voting, so lets get states to pass laws requiring ID we already possess (state issued birth cert., driver’s license, or passport) to avoid voter fraud. IMO, we don’t need another ID, and the distinction b/w state and federal is important.
Firefly_76 on October 15, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Can we please end the fiction that legal Mexican immigrants are against illegal immigration? Maybe most of the Republican ones are, but the Democratic and Independant Mexican immigrants want this country to have more people who look like them, no matter what values they bring with them. Just like most white people would if the situation were reversed.
Speedwagon82 on October 15, 2009 at 1:41 PM
I use the census a lot for my amateur genealogy work.
Only legal citizens were counted.
The 1790 census counted only the head of household by name & the number of dependents.
1810-1840s censuses starting counting the depedents by ages, but still never asked their names.
1850 was the 1st fed census asking for individual household members ages & it’s the 1st time the feds asked for their birthplaces.
Slave schedules were always around-it was how they ASSESSED PROPERTY-bcs slaves were considered property & it was not only an enumeration of legal persons, but PROPERTY held.
1850s & onward were asking for personal property values & real estate values.
The census became more intrusive as time went on-asking whether they rented or owned, what their occupation was, whether they could read or write, whether they’d had schooling etc.
They began to ask where their parents were born-were they of natural or foreign birth-when did they immigrate-and were they naturalized or not.
We all know how voting districts & representation is a matter of legal voting population #s.
So it is no secret, at least ot those of us with half a brain- that this is a tactic in which to garner more representation in districts to manufacture more VOTES.
Badger40 on October 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Ditto!
Here in ND we have to show our license to vote.
I have no problem with that. Even if the town I vote in has less than 1000 people-we still show our licenses-bcs we believe only legal citizens should be able to vote.
We also have problems with out of state landowners sometimes coming in here & trying to vote on local issues- another reason to require proof of ID.
Badger40 on October 15, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Anyone who lives in California knows that 3.2 million is well within the realm of possibility.
LASue on October 15, 2009 at 1:54 PM
The ultimate ’silent majority’
TheVer on October 15, 2009 at 2:03 PM
Bing. A single sheet or half sheet. “Document your citizenship”. Give me a break, Jazz.
Jaibones on October 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM
I
Seeing as you’re a liberal, I’ll take that as meaning you don’t have an answer. Typical liberal reply, when someone makes a point you can’t counter, ridicule them while laughing off the real question in order to avoid being cornered.
cjk on October 15, 2009 at 2:29 PM
Trust me. CA has more than 3.2 million illegals. Many have left due tot he economy but most stayed.
Sapwolf on October 15, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Nice. I like.
Sapwolf on October 15, 2009 at 3:14 PM
Count illegals as 3/5 of a person, but they can’t vote.
Jeff from WI on October 15, 2009 at 4:07 PM
It’s not all bad. At least counting the illegals helps Texas take seats away from Michigan and Massachusetts.
WWS on October 15, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Shoot, why don’t they just count everyone in Mexico while they’re at it?
Dr. ZhivBlago on October 15, 2009 at 6:10 PM
Here I am. How can I help? (Besides “Ten for Tark”, that is — I’m happy to chip in $10 or more as necessary.)
Mary in LA on October 15, 2009 at 7:26 PM
Counting the illegals would help set the stage for an efficient deportation effort. I agree with an earlier poster; most illegals from Mexico don’t want to be US citizens.
Red State State of Mind on October 15, 2009 at 8:58 PM
Ok, so lets picture a situation. Lets say there were 600,000ish illegal immigrants (which of course there are); and I lived near them (unlikely, but possible). So we get a representative in the House.
And, the district lines get drawn to include me, and 600,000 illegals… correct me if I’m wrong, but you just gave me the only legal vote for a representative.
Do we want to water down districts in such a way that there are fewer voters in some districts than others? Should we reward areas that encourage lawbreaking by giving their voters more clout?
I’m not seeing why encouraging this is a good thing; but I’m clearly missing the reasons for counting them. Are any of them compelling?
gekkobear on October 15, 2009 at 10:40 PM
Actually both counts are needed. And it seems fair to ask whether a person is 1) a citizen, 2) here legally, or 3) is here illegally. Protections should exist to prevent using census data for finding specific illegal aliens.
For apportioning the vote the legal voters count is needed. For calculating the needs for services the counts for legal and illegal aliens is needed.
{^_^}
herself on October 16, 2009 at 3:50 AM
I agree that the citizenship status question should be asked, and I also agree that the arguments about cost are bogus. Printing an additional sheet and including it in the mailer is not difficult. If the question was not about citizenship, nobody would be complaining about costs; the census bureau would just take care of it without any fuss.
However, there’s a problem (at least with the mailed surveys): what is preventing illegal residents from simply ignoring the question?
I don’t think the response rate on citizenship status questions would be much above 10% for those here illegally. Once they receive a survey, it’s all over. They fill out the survey, ignore the citizenship question, and their data goes into the census without any method of separating them out afterward.
blueguitarbob on October 16, 2009 at 8:08 AM
The Three MuskyTears, (Obama, Ried, and Pelosi)are selling U.S. to the highest bidder and the currency is human beings seeking freedom – illegally.
MSGTAS on October 16, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Institutionalized voter fraud.
This is the other shoe of Acorn and why they were involved in the census in the first place in my opinion.
They count them during the census then they register them before the election and fight voter ID in between. Its all about getting democrats elected, not following the oath of office.
They are democratic constituents. So by their way of thinking they probably are serving the public.
Opportunity Costs on October 16, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Obama’s new welfare plan for all of us! Read about it at:
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/10/16/morning-bell-obamacare-puts-you-on-welfare/
Cybergeezer on October 16, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2