Video: 6-year-old faces 45 days in reform school

posted at 10:12 am on October 13, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Zero tolerance policies do nothing but allow schools and school districts a way to avoid using proper judgment in settling issues on campuses. If one needed any more proof of this, look no further than the six-year-old boy who may spend 45 days in reform school for bringing a Cub Scout camping utensil tool to school. Yes, it contains a knife … and a fork … and a spoon:

The New York Times asked the salient question this weekend:

Spurred in part by the Columbine and Virginia Tech shootings, many school districts around the country adopted zero-tolerance policies on the possession of weapons on school grounds. More recently, there has been growing debate over whether the policies have gone too far.

But, based on the code of conduct for the Christina School District, where Zachary is a first grader, school officials had no choice. They had to suspend him because, “regardless of possessor’s intent,” knives are banned.

But the question on the minds of residents here is: Why do school officials not have more discretion in such cases?

“Zachary wears a suit and tie some days to school by his own choice because he takes school so seriously,” said Debbie Christie, Zachary’s mother, who started a Web site, helpzachary.com, in hopes of recruiting supporters to pressure the local school board at its next open meeting on Tuesday. “He is not some sort of threat to his classmates.”

Still, some school administrators argue that it is difficult to distinguish innocent pranks and mistakes from more serious threats, and that the policies must be strict to protect students.

Well, here’s the first problem. Policies don’t protect children; teachers and administrators protect children at school. It’s almost as if the districts use their policies as totems or charms, thinking that if they wave them at everybody, they’ll all be safe without having to take responsibility for using judgment in applying them. It’s the new bureaucratic superstition, and it leads to absurdities such as tossing a six-year-old into reform school for taking his new Cub Scout accessory to school.

Real security requires judgment and adults willing to take some responsibility. At its heart, the slavish devotion to the letter of zero-tolerance policies is nothing more than passing the buck, a craven attempt at CYA while posing as defenders of children. There is a vast qualitative difference between a child who brings a Cub Scout utensil and another who waves a switchblade at other kids, and to treat them the same is not just insane, it’s counterproductive to the end goal of school safety.

The school board meets tonight at 7:30 pm in the Christina School District in Newark, Delaware. Hopefully the Christies get plenty of support from their community and stop the assignment of Zacahary to a reform school for nine weeks.

Update: Radio Vice Online highlights another case of Zero Tolerance/Zero Sense.

Update II: There is a website for Zachary’s supporters to express their outrage over this ridiculous decision, HelpZachary.com.

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Comment pages: 1 2 3

liberalism is a mental disorder.

moonbatkiller on October 13, 2009 at 10:13 AM

My son has the same combo knife.

This is nuts.

Mr. Joe on October 13, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Way to teach the children that educators are idiots.

bridgetown on October 13, 2009 at 10:14 AM

This is just pathetic. Does nobody in public education have common sense anymore? I would never allow my children to attend public school.

Vashta.Nerada on October 13, 2009 at 10:14 AM

He should wear baggy pants and carry railroad spikes to school.

SouthernGent on October 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM

The appropriate response: The teacher takes it away, gives it to mom and dad, and asks his parents not to let their son bring it to school again.

Mr. Joe on October 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM

Who is going to protect the children from the school administrators?

MrScribbler on October 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM

“Zero tolerance” = zero common sense.

WannabeAnglican on October 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM

Still, some school administrators argue that it is difficult to distinguish innocent pranks and mistakes from more serious threats, and that the policies must be strict to protect students.

What, exactly, was the prank he was pulling?

By the way, do the kids get to use utensils in the cafeteria or do they have to stick their faces in troughs?

James on October 13, 2009 at 10:16 AM

If he carried a two-by-four like the kids in Chicago, would that be OK?

I’m with bridgetown: all this does is teach everyone that educators don’t use the common sense God gave them.

NebCon on October 13, 2009 at 10:18 AM

i wonder if they checked his mouth for razor blades…

alexraye on October 13, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Grrrrrrrrr! Is there any common sense left in this country? Jesus.

therightwinger on October 13, 2009 at 10:19 AM

We had something similar where I live about 15 years ago — one second grade girl pushes another into a water fountain, and the acting principal calls the police in order to avoid actually having to make a judgment call. School administrators have these ‘no deviation’ rules hammered into their heads, in part due to fears over legal action from any attempt to actually look at a situation and determine what the motive is. So a Cub Scout knife is the same as a switchblade, and a couple of Tylenol pills are the same as a kid brining hydrcodone tabs to school.

jon1979 on October 13, 2009 at 10:19 AM

Pencils, especially sharpened ones, can be dangerous.

tarpon on October 13, 2009 at 10:19 AM

I have no issue with a Fork, a Spoon, and A Knife.

However, Zero Tolerance is appropriate for a Spork.

juanito on October 13, 2009 at 10:20 AM

Yes, it contains a knife … and a fork … and a spoon

A Weapon of Mass Digestion.

LibTired on October 13, 2009 at 10:20 AM

Hopefully the Christies get plenty of support from their community and stop the assignment of Zacahary to a reform school for nine weeks.

They will. Extrapolating that my town is like the town this family is in, strong in-tact nuclear families, people will tell the school to do what Mr. Jow said above, “The teacher takes it away, gives it to mom and dad, and asks his parents not to let their son bring it to school again.”

WashJeff on October 13, 2009 at 10:20 AM

Neal Boortz is discussing another one of these zero tolerances cases this morning. The student in this case is a HS senior, who has completed Basic Training and is wiating on word of his application to West Point. Somebody informed the administration that he has a knife in his car, not on his person mind you.

Result? One month suspension and will probably knock him out of consideration for USAMA.

Just A Grunt on October 13, 2009 at 10:21 AM

PUBLIC EDUCATION IS CHILD ABUSE….

Mmmm Mmmm Mmmmmm…..

adamsmith on October 13, 2009 at 10:21 AM

However, Zero Tolerance is appropriate for a Spork.

juanito on October 13, 2009 at 10:20 AM

Can you handle a spife?

WashJeff on October 13, 2009 at 10:21 AM

While I agree with everyone here that this is idiotic, can I point out that our lawsuit happy society is partly to blame for ‘zero tolerance policies’?

Bobbertsan on October 13, 2009 at 10:22 AM

dumb asses

blatantblue on October 13, 2009 at 10:22 AM

So, does the school cafeteria have eating utinsels, or are the students suppose to eat jello with their fingers?

PappaMac on October 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM

The school board meets tonight at 7:30 pm in the Christina School District in Newark, Delaware.

About a mile from my house. I am going to show up tonight and voice my concerns about this insanity.

UltimateBob on October 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM

He’s age 6? I don’t know what state this is in, but legally, I don’t think they could either prosecute him in juvenile court or send him to reform school of any kind. He’s 6 years old fer crissakes!

Blake on October 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM

Sorry. It is better that kids just don’t bring knives to school, than to have to argue about what they meant to do, or did, with the knife they brought. That’s what “reasonableness” will lead to–kids being threatened with knives, and all the district could “prove” is that they have a knife on them, and everybody agreed that’s no big deal.

Chris_Balsz on October 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM

Crap like this should be the impetus to change the rule. And who is the asshat administrator that actually follows through with the reform school punishment. Aren’t these the same asshats that are so concerned with kids self-esteem?

Durham68 on October 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM

Only an absolute fool would want these same people to be in charge of their healthcare.

CDeb on October 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM

Zero tolerance is a farce and a crutch for those who don’t want to actually do their jobs and INVESTIGATE.

It’s simply a very, very, very bad idea.

That said, I DO sympathize with the emotions behind it. School districts are in a Catch-22 with the issue of school violence.

If they play things cool and try to make sane decisions, you have the uproar that occurred after Columbine by all the people who said that they “should have known” it was going to happen.

If they decide to go the other way, then they get lambasted for being to strict.

Thus part of the problem is parents and the public who thoughtlessly want some kind of perfect system that can differentiate correctly every time between real threats and just kids being kids.

I never thought that the pre-existing “evidence” for the Columbine killers was all that persuasive. A couple of badly made Doom levels and a couple of dark essays does not (necessarily) a serial killer make.

I think we ALL need a little more common sense and a little more level-headedness (and maybe a bit of tort reform in regards to schools). That would certainly help the school districts make better decisions.

Religious_Zealot on October 13, 2009 at 10:24 AM

As a Cub Scout leader, I find this zero tolerance policy ridiculous. But I have to say that official Cub Scout policy states that only boys in the third grade who have passed a safety training course (and have their parent’s written permission) can carry a pocket knife during official Scouting events (like campouts.) This first grader shouldn’t have a tool like this in the first place.
.
I think that the Scout policy finds the right balance between public safety and personal responsibility. Why can’t school systems do the same thing???

common sensineer on October 13, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Idiocracy, it’s not just a satirical movie anymore.

fogw on October 13, 2009 at 10:24 AM

I carried one of these to Lutheran parochial school when I was his age. My teacher borrowed it to cut some rope one time.

OmahaConservative on October 13, 2009 at 10:25 AM

45 days reform school? Aren’t these the same bunch of nanny staters that are always so cooncerned with the kids self esteem?

Durham68 on October 13, 2009 at 10:25 AM

So, does the school cafeteria have eating utinsels, or are the students supposed to eat jello with their fingers?

PappaMac on October 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM

I was thinking about inventing a plastic-bladed Swiss Army knife. I figure if it is acceptable in the lunchroom, it should be acceptable in the classroom.

Vashta.Nerada on October 13, 2009 at 10:25 AM

The teacher, principal, and school administrators should have to stay after school and write on the black board 100 times, WE ARE A NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT.

fourdeucer on October 13, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Spoon and fork don’t kill people. People kill people.

year_of_the_dingo on October 13, 2009 at 10:27 AM

The school where my wife teaches would have to send 3/4 of the kids to reform school. She teaches in a rural school where almost all the kids carry small pocket knives. When deer season comes around, the school is a ghost town since most of the older children are out hunting with either Mom or Dad.

Torch on October 13, 2009 at 10:27 AM

The appropriate response: The teacher takes it away, gives it to mom and dad, and asks his parents not to let their son bring it to school again.

Mr. Joe on October 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM

Thank you! That is exactly right, and that is what happened to me when I was caught with a 1″ knife when I was a kid in school (which I got as a souvenir from Walt Disney World, and the Disney logo was on the side of the “weapon”).

“One-size-fits-all” policies are no substitute for good parenting.

UltimateBob on October 13, 2009 at 10:28 AM

I clicked on the NYT link and here is a picture of the knife blade.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/10/12/us/discipline600.jpg

And the NYT has a link to the Code of Conduct.
http://www.christina.k12.de.us/CodeOfConduct/0910/pdf/EN.pdf

Having a 6 year old learn to honor agreements and watch where he puts a knife is no disgrace.

Chris_Balsz on October 13, 2009 at 10:28 AM

The appropriate response: The teacher takes it away, gives it to mom and dad, and asks his parents not to let their son bring it to school again.

Mr. Joe on October 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM

Mr. Joe, you have way too much common sense. This way of thinking undermines idiocy. Shame on you!

Gang-of-One on October 13, 2009 at 10:29 AM

They have these zero tolerance policies in Chicago also. It doesn’t stop the killing at all. Liberalism is a mental disease.

stephana on October 13, 2009 at 10:29 AM

It’s an incarcerating offense for a 6 yr old to bring a Cub Scout tool to school, but it’s acceptable to make students sing a song worshipping Obama to the tune of Jesus Loves the Little Children? What country am I living in?

kingsjester on October 13, 2009 at 10:29 AM

How about Zero Tolerance for Stupidity.

maynila on October 13, 2009 at 10:30 AM

Knuckle dragging liberals. Remember we use “sharps” to cut poster board and create leftie political signs.

seven on October 13, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Having a 6 year old learn to honor agreements and watch where he puts a knife is no disgrace.

Chris_Balsz on October 13, 2009 at 10:28 AM

“Learning” that lesson with 45 days in reform school is a disgrace.

CDeb on October 13, 2009 at 10:31 AM

My head hurt every time I read one of these zero intelligence stories. Miscarriage of justice? More like an abortion of common sense.

God this nation can be so f’n stupid at times.

Yakko77 on October 13, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Proof positive that school officials are not smart enough to have a zero tolerance policy.

How about a zero tolerance for incompetence?

Texican Ben on October 13, 2009 at 10:32 AM

Zero Tolerance — Zero Intelligence

Lets put the little 6 year old reprobate in general lockup for 45 days. That will send the right message. No Sporks Allowed.

Kuffar on October 13, 2009 at 10:32 AM

Sorry. It is better that kids just don’t bring knives to school, than to have to argue about what they meant to do, or did, with the knife they brought. That’s what “reasonableness” will lead to–kids being threatened with knives, and all the district could “prove” is that they have a knife on them, and everybody agreed that’s no big deal.

Chris_Balsz on October 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM

I have no problems with that. What I have a problem with is how it is dealt with. In the adult world, not all violations of the law are prosecuted. One sentence does not fit all. What would be appropriate and strict in this situation is to keep the knife and counsel the boy.

Blake on October 13, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Liberals imposing their mental illness on children unfortunate enough to be in public school.

One day there will be a reckoning in this country, and the people who implement policies like these will be properly taunted and scorned.

greggriffith on October 13, 2009 at 10:33 AM

In Soviet America, spoon fork and knife eat you.

LibTired on October 13, 2009 at 10:33 AM

The school board meets tonight at 7:30 pm in the Christina School District in Newark, Delaware.

About a mile from my house. I am going to show up tonight and voice my concerns about this insanity.

UltimateBob on October 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM

Yeah, welcome to Delaware, where the teacher’s union runs the state government.

BigD on October 13, 2009 at 10:33 AM

My God, he actually had a little camping fork-knife-spoon combo? Next, the little bastard will start bringing in Bibles. After that, it’s probably only a matter of time before he openly refuses to sing psalms to Obama, or questions the propriety of the publc option. I say stone him publicly before his ideas spread like some kind of horrible cancer.

morganfrost on October 13, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Copied from the headlines thread…

The liberal mind sees no distinction between a good kid and a troubled kid. It would be politically incorrect to make any type of judgment because as we all know, n the psychologically damaged liberal mind, there is no right or wrong where choices are concerned. There are just personal choices. The more good kids they can expose to troubled kids, the more the moral distinction line is blurred to the child.

If you need proof, just look at how the leftists praised Polanski. The 13 year old girl made a choice and Roman simply participated.

csdeven on October 13, 2009 at 10:34 AM

The should just continue to homeschool the boy. If he leaves for good it will cost the school district over $7,000 a year in state funding.

I publish homeschool curriculum and would be happy to provide a full k-12 curriculum to the family for free.

The Rock on October 13, 2009 at 10:35 AM

Having a 6 year old learn to honor agreements and watch where he puts a knife is no disgrace.

Chris_Balsz on October 13, 2009 at 10:28 AM

You’re correct.

But that could have been done by simply taking the knife away and contacting his parents.

Forty-five days in a reform school IS a disgrace.

Religious_Zealot on October 13, 2009 at 10:35 AM

Zero tolerant is nothing more then leveling the playing field. It treats everyone the same and removes the burden from the administrators that can rightly claim I have no choice in this matter.

In my opinion it also trains the youth to accept judgments from authority without placing blame on the “messenger” that is doling out the action. This is useful in any socialist system as it absolves the administration of any responsibility and or guilt. It will make the “death panels” able to function because they can rightly claim, “I had no choice other then to put little johnny down”.

People will and have accepted this system as it allows them to justify unjustifiable actions as a result of the government and not the individual.

“I had no choice” will be the phase of choice in our future.

RagTag on October 13, 2009 at 10:35 AM

Obviously, the kid should be expelled and placed full-time in reform school. Also, the state should remove custody from the parents for ever allowing such a weapon to come into his possession. A full in-home audit of the parents should be made by CPS before they can petition for custody. Only the State can save this future monster.

brak on October 13, 2009 at 10:35 AM

I did a facepalm when i heard this on the radio. then I got mad. What is our society coming too?

unseen on October 13, 2009 at 10:35 AM

About a mile from my house. I am going to show up tonight and voice my concerns about this insanity.

UltimateBob on October 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM

Good for you. Hopefully, you’ll have lots of company. Good luck.

Gang-of-One on October 13, 2009 at 10:36 AM

Yes, it contains a knife … and a fork … and a spoon

A Weapon of Mass Digestion.

LibTired on October 13, 2009 at 10:20 AM

Now, that was funny.

i wonder if they checked his mouth for razor blades…

alexraye on October 13, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Probably not, but they’re going to send him to a place where he’ll learn how to make a shiv out of toothbrush.

For crying out loud. The kid wears a tie to school on some occasions. I have this picture in mind of Alex P. Keeton getting frog marched to reformatory school. Give the kid a talking to and move on.

BuckeyeSam on October 13, 2009 at 10:36 AM

Having a 6 year old learn to honor agreements and watch where he puts a knife is no disgrace.

Chris_Balsz on October 13, 2009 at 10:28 AM

Sure, but that could have been accomplished in about 60 seconds. Take the ‘weapon’, explain why, tell the parents about it. Done.

bridgetown on October 13, 2009 at 10:36 AM

I was thinking about inventing a plastic-bladed Swiss Army knife. I figure if it is acceptable in the lunchroom, it should be acceptable in the classroom.

Vashta.Nerada on October 13, 2009 at 10:25 AM

Spork!

In all honesty the people who insist on holding onto these zero tolerance policies instead of taking them on a case by case basis are irresponsible at best. This poor boy will have it on his record for a very long time and this will adversely affect him for the rest of his life.

Heres another side to it. Zero tolerance for violence-if you hit, you get suspended, if you hit back in self-defense you get suspended. My son many years ago when he was starting 6th grade was introduced to bullyism. He was on the receiving end of it. We talked to him about it as he was exhibiting acting out symptoms at home. Then we contacted the school, which informed us that they would keep their eyes out for anything suspicious. Well this kid decided two more times to bully my son, with the school giving nothing more than a verbal warning to the child, yet informing me that if my son defended himself at being shoved into a wall,repeatedly, that he would be suspended.

I told my son(yes Im a horrible mother) that if the boy did it again, he was to make sure the suspension was worth it. He did. That was the last time he was ever bullied in middle school. He is now near 6 feet tall and in high school. He tends to protect the little guy. Hes a great student, but the suspension will always be on his record.

canditaylor68 on October 13, 2009 at 10:38 AM

When will liberals understand that in life there is no such thing ‘zero tolerance’. To have ‘zero tolerance’ means anything goes.

Why? Simple. Zero means nothing. Therefore, ‘zero tolerance’ means they tolerate nothing and to tolerate nothing is the premise of anarchy, antithetical to a liberals goal of absolute government control.

Yes, liberalism is a mental disorder, and if you look hard enough I am sure you can find ‘liberalism’ in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition.

MSGTAS on October 13, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Hey, there has already been an instance of a Jonesboro, Arkansas eight year-old being suspended from school for 3 days for pointing a piece of chicken from the school’s cafeteria at a teacher and saying “Pow, pow, pow.”

A 10-year-old in Colorado Springs was suspended for offering a lemon drop to a friend, violating the policy of zero tolerance.

I suppose that the police are barred from the school building and grounds if they are carrying any weapons .. zero tolerance is zero tolerance.

J_Crater on October 13, 2009 at 10:38 AM

They had to suspend him because, “regardless of possessor’s intent,” knives are banned.

Does that mean the cafeteria only serves food the “schoochildren” can eat with their hands? By the school’s own policy knives are banned regardless of intent. Heads should roll if one utensil is found in that cafeteria!

More seriously, what would keep from a child taking utensils from the cafeteria and doing the same potential harm they could do ones they bring from home. I can more easily see the case for this kind of lunacy if Zach Christie came in toting a Crocodile Dundee machete or even a Cub Scout pocket knife but it seems absurd to punish a child for bringing something to school he could easily obtain there, anyway? Reminds me of the post 9/11/01 days when they were confiscating nail clippers at the TSA screening points in LAX but selling nail clippers inside the secure part of the terminal.

highhopes on October 13, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Why don’t they just go all the way and execute the little bastard? That’ll teach ‘im!!!

CDeb on October 13, 2009 at 10:39 AM

Lawyers do not allow for “common sense”.

Goody2Shoes on October 13, 2009 at 10:39 AM

Was it right for the boy to take the utility set to school? No. But that is no excuse for this pathetic policy that would send a 6 year old to reform school for a month and a half for what amounts to a very minor violation.

To me, this would amount to the same thing as getting 45 days of jail time for speeeding, yah it is against the law, yah it is dangerous, but they just fine you, put a mark in your record and send you on your way.

The proper action has already been described. Take the knife away, notify the parents and arrange a meeting. Give them the knife and explain to them why it shouldn’t of been brought to school. If he repeats bringing it in, then you move to harsher punishments (such as suspension).

TKSnider on October 13, 2009 at 10:40 AM

Mr. Joe on October 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM

Exactly, and at the same time explain why he cannot bring it to school, but it is certainly appropriate for his scouting activities. This kind of small child sensitive approach does not deflate the child but treats him like an intelligent, reasonable person…. Win/win.

jeanie on October 13, 2009 at 10:40 AM

“I had no choice” will be the phase of choice in our future.

RagTag on October 13, 2009 at 10:35 AM

“I was just following orders.”

CDeb on October 13, 2009 at 10:40 AM

You’re correct.

But that could have been done by simply taking the knife away and contacting his parents.

Forty-five days in a reform school IS a disgrace.

Religious_Zealot on October 13, 2009 at 10:35 AM

Its a swiss army pocket knife, for pete’s sake. He should be responsibile enough to have it. He is a cub scout. Why take it away from him? Did he do anything with it? did he cut himself? Someone else? Was he using it in a threatening manner? What gives the school the “right” to emasuclate this boy? He was planning on showing his friends at lunch his new lunch tool. It had a fork, a sppon, and a knife. You eat with it.

unseen on October 13, 2009 at 10:40 AM

Since the mom is homeschooling him in the interim, they might decide, as many others have, to opt out of government schooling altogether.

marybel on October 13, 2009 at 10:40 AM

I don’t know. The kid looks pretty dangerous…like he could go off any minute.

Matticus Finch on October 13, 2009 at 10:40 AM

We went through this decades ago…rules are their to protect the teachers and administrators from making decisions.
When faced with a problem, or dilemma, administrators create a sweeping rule so they don’t have to decide “right or wrong”. They just point to a rule and say “We have to follow it”.
One of the most insidious of the liberals and weak minded policies.
As if a pen or a pencil is not just as much of a weapon?
Good grief…this kid will be a conservative forever, that is the good news…

right2bright on October 13, 2009 at 10:41 AM

Listen, in San Fran they would suspend him for just being a Cub Scout….

right2bright on October 13, 2009 at 10:42 AM

Kid at my high school got expelled for having an arrow in the back of his pickup truck. He went hunting the previous weekend and forgot to remove it.

The same school also banned, by name, “numbchucks”. I guess nunchucks were still acceptable.

strictnein on October 13, 2009 at 10:43 AM

Was it right for the boy to take the utility set to school? No.

TKSnider on October 13, 2009 at 10:40 AM

bullcrap. He was perfectly correct to take it to school. You have swallowed the liberal spin. Its a utility set and if it was a knife SO FREAKING WHAT. He should only be punished if he used or threatened to use the tool in a violent manner.

God the pussification of America continues apace.

unseen on October 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM

I carried one of these to Lutheran parochial school when I was his age. My teacher borrowed it to cut some rope one time.

OmahaConservative on October 13, 2009 at 10:25 AM

When I was in school we could buy pocket knifes in the small store next door. We would carve, throw them into trees and play various knife games during recess. Many of us even sharpened pencils with them during class time. This was back in the early 1960s and I grew up just outside of Boston MA so I’m not talking about some small town in the south or mid-west.

RagTag on October 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Someone else? Was he using it in a threatening manner? What gives the school the “right” to emasuclate this boy? He was planning on showing his friends at lunch his new lunch tool. It had a fork, a sppon, and a knife. You eat with it.

unseen on October 13, 2009 at 10:40 AM

You know, I’m actually pretty much on board with the whole “don’t bring a knife to school” bit.

And regardless of what I think of it, it was the school rule.

Hence, it SHOULD have been taken away from him.

My problem is that it could have/SHOULD have been handled in a much quicker and neater way – by contacting the parents and having them come in to pick up the knife.

Religious_Zealot on October 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM

From the NYT story, this is what these idiotic policies are really about:

Education experts say that zero-tolerance policies initially allowed authorities more leeway in punishing students, but were applied in a discriminatory fashion. Many studies indicate that African-Americans were several times more likely to be suspended or expelled than other students for the same offenses.

“The result of those studies is that more school districts have removed discretion in applying the disciplinary policies to avoid criticism of being biased,” said Ronnie Casella, an associate professor of education at Central Connecticut State University who has written about school violence. He added that there is no evidence that zero-tolerance policies make schools safer.

Buy Danish on October 13, 2009 at 10:45 AM

About a mile from my house. I am going to show up tonight and voice my concerns about this insanity.

UltimateBob on October 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM

good, bring a rope and some tar and feathers

unseen on October 13, 2009 at 10:46 AM

O/T, but CNN is reporting on a woman born with half a brain (HA seems to have rejected my post with a link in it). Question: should she run as a Republican or a Democrat? Or should she go straight to an “anchor” job at CNN? Didn’t I also read that she’s going to continue to do The View as well as have her own show?

mr.blacksheep on October 13, 2009 at 10:46 AM

Sure, but that could have been accomplished in about 60 seconds. Take the ‘weapon’, explain why, tell the parents about it. Done.

bridgetown on October 13, 2009 at 10:36 AM

You do bring up an interesting aspect here. Usually the school starts with blaming the parents for not reading and digesting all 200 pages of the code of conduct they send home the first week of school. While it is absurd to suspend this child for packing utensils, I do have to wonder what the parents knew about this policy. I would have assumed no knives meant no pocket knives- not silverware.

OT but related. The DC suburbs just had a five-year-old who was accidentially put on the wrong bus and eventually forced off the bus by the driver at a busy intersection in a strange neighborhood. Only by the grace of God did that child have a couple older kids who provided assistance to make this a happy ending. The investigation is ongoing (as is the lawsuit, I am sure) but perhaps the Fairfax County Schoolboard should suspend the child under the concept of zero tolerance for getting put on the wrong bus.

highhopes on October 13, 2009 at 10:47 AM

As a Cub Scout leader, I find this zero tolerance policy ridiculous. But I have to say that official Cub Scout policy states that only boys in the third grade who have passed a safety training course (and have their parent’s written permission) can carry a pocket knife during official Scouting events (like campouts.) This first grader shouldn’t have a tool like this in the first place.
.
I think that the Scout policy finds the right balance between public safety and personal responsibility. Why can’t school systems do the same thing???

common sensineer on October 13, 2009 at 10:24 AM

My son is a 3rd grader Cub Scout, and he has not been to camp yet, so he a)does not have these camping utensils, b) he has not had the Safety training or badge (he joined this year). He would earn it in a jiffy b/c we camp at our in-laws’ quite often. The land has plenty of camping experience, and a cabin almost done. In fact, they offered to one of our troop leaders to camp there. Will this earn me a popcorn badge? :D

I wonder if he already had the training and the badge, therefore the utensils. But he’s six!!! Do the Cub Scouts give this type of training that early? My son knows full well about the school policy, but ITA with the previous poster who said the teacher could have taken the items and call Mom and Dad.

OTOH, I believe that Cub Scouts can take advantage of this opportunity to state their mission, accomplishments and such to avoid the Cub Scouts/Boy Scouts suffer some kind of indirect damage from all this.

This is just utterly stupid.

ProudPalinFan on October 13, 2009 at 10:47 AM

Having a 6 year old learn to honor agreements and watch where he puts a knife is no disgrace.

Chris_Balsz on October 13, 2009 at 10:28 AM

Those rules are written for adults, a 6 year old doesn’t know the rules, that is what teachers are for.
When they say “no knives”, most would assume, a 6 year old, and even you, would assume that does not mean utensils of a fork, spoon in a cub scout knife.
You guys that don’t have kids crack me up…and you don’t remember when you were a kid…
What you do is take the instrument away, nicely, and explain that although it is a cub scout utility device, it does have the potential to harm someone. Then explain he can take it home after school….after he does a show and tell to define what it is, and how different instruments can be dangerous, and can be helpful.

right2bright on October 13, 2009 at 10:47 AM

But I have to say that official Cub Scout policy states that only boys in the third grade who have passed a safety training course (and have their parent’s written permission) can carry a pocket knife during official Scouting events (like campouts.) This first grader shouldn’t have a tool like this in the first place.

common sensineer on October 13, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Remember, this is a knife for cutting food, NOT a pocket knife.

Here’s the other problem, besides potentially stigmatizing this boy towards school, it could also take something that is beneficial to him (Scouting) and turn him off from it as well.

From an Asst. ScoutMaster & former CubMaster

HarryStar on October 13, 2009 at 10:49 AM

But bring a weapon to a polling place and we’re cool with that. Right?

29Victor on October 13, 2009 at 10:49 AM

2 words,

PRIVATE SCHOOL

2 more words,

SCHOOL VOUCHERS

This is just beyond stupid that situations like this occur today. As someone above said, back in the day, had this happened, teacher confiscates said “weapon”. Calls parents, asks parents to come to school to get said “weapon”. Explains to parents why it is a bad idea to allow a kid to bring this to school. Tells parents to not allow it, or it will be permanently confiscated in the future.

End of story.

Back in the day, school systems used common sense. WTF is going on these days?. My mom was a school teacher. At the end of the year, she had all kinds of interesting things in her box where she placed confiscated items. At her school, it was the hair pick. Back in the 60′s and 70′s, it was the style to go around with a hair pick in your hair. She found that the kids played with their hair too much and got distracted from their studies, so she confiscated the hair pick.

I beg to offer that in this day and age, the hair pick would be considered a weapon.

Sigh.

karenhasfreedom on October 13, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Reason number 999,999 for home schooling

PatriotRider on October 13, 2009 at 10:49 AM

He should only be punished if he used or threatened to use the tool in a violent manner.

God the pussification of America continues apace.

unseen on October 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Sure the kid is fine alone but when people are around the knife takes hold and he has no choice but to go on a killing spree. To think that people have control over these deadly, so called tools is ridiculous and absurd. The only people to think that they are just not progressive or have not got the capacity to become progressive. This isn’t the 1950s you know.

RagTag on October 13, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Unseen,

As it was a school rule (whether it was a good one or not, is debatable and I’d probably agree with you that it isn’t as I grew up in rural America and I’m sure I carried a pocket knife or two to school with me) he shouldn’t of taken it to school, that is the only reason I say that. But the punishment for this minor violation is absolutely ridiculous.

TKSnider on October 13, 2009 at 10:50 AM

RagTag on October 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM

We used to play mumblety peg on the playground during recess in elementary school.

fourdeucer on October 13, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Hopefully the Christies get plenty of support from their community and stop the assignment of Zacahary to a reform school for nine weeks.

Good one. I needed a laugh today… wait, you were serious?

I’ve followed these zero-tolerancebrain stories for years. They’re designed to protect school officials from accusations of bias, nothing more. What these policies accomplish, in point of fact, is to teach our children that those in authority are not only brainless yahoos, but that they are not to be trusted for any reason.

Physics Geek on October 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM

Reason number 999,999 for home schooling

PatriotRider on October 13, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Amen brother.

29Victor on October 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM

highhopes on October 13, 2009 at 10:47 AM

You don’t strip search a kid before going to school…
The kid received something of great value and worth to him, a camping utensil. He didn’t receive a knife for defense. He was excited, wanted to show his friends…the smart thing would be for the teacher to have a show and tell, then put the utensil away till after school and explain to child and parents what happened.
Everyone gets educated, the child still gets the excitement and joy, the parents have a “teachable moment”.

right2bright on October 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM

People will and have accepted this system as it allows them to justify unjustifiable actions as a result of the government and not the individual.
“I had no choice” will be the phase of choice in our future.
RagTag on October 13, 2009 at 10:35 AM

Exactly right. “I was just following orders” becomes legally justifiable defense of outrageous authoritarian behavior.

DamnCat on October 13, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Just sent the entire school board, superintendent, etc. up there a “polite” email asking if any of them had an ounce of common sense or a BACKBONE. The fact that this issue has come this far suggests an answer.

Sugar Land on October 13, 2009 at 10:52 AM

I didn’t have to read the whole piece to know that it had to be a school in the northeast. This is what happens with women and lawyers in charge of something. Sorry for generalizing ladies, but I’m right. I make no apologies to lawyers of course.

orlandocajun on October 13, 2009 at 10:52 AM

My problem is that it could have/SHOULD have been handled in a much quicker and neater way – by contacting the parents and having them come in to pick up the knife.

Religious_Zealot on October 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Unfortunately, the school administrators prefer to take the easier, “Turn off brain, employ mindless, heavy-handed legislation” approach.

So now this kid, who probably has a spotless record and enjoys school so much that he wears a necktie to a public school every day (yes, that’s true), will be suspended for 5 days and have to spend 45 days in a reform school where he’ll learn from all those “nice” little children how to commit REAL crimes.

Way to go, Delaware educators!

UltimateBob on October 13, 2009 at 10:53 AM

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