Lieberman opposes Baucus plan

posted at 12:15 pm on October 13, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Don’t get too excited. Joe Lieberman doesn’t oppose government intervention in the private health-care industry, but he’s not impressed with the scale and the results of the Baucus plan. He flat-out tells Don Imus this morning that he won’t support the bill (when it actually becomes a bill) because it will raise premium prices on the 87% of Americans who have coverage to insure about a third of those with no coverage. Lieberman also says that “you don’t have to be an economist” to understand that taxes and fees on producers get paid by consumers (via The Weekly Standard):

Lieberman wants an incremental approach rather than a comprehensive approach, specific to delivery. Unfortunately, his idea there — paying for outcomes rather than services provided — would still be a massive intrusion on the private sector and become a complete bureaucratic nightmare. Not even the best of service guarantees a happy outcome, after all, and the concept would leave providers holding the bag for services provided to people who simply couldn’t recover from their illnesses. At its reductio ad absurdum level, that approach assumes immortality only interrupted by extraneous tests.

Still, if Lieberman votes against cloture and Olympia Snowe balks, the Senate effort will die a quick death. And that assumes the Democrats have all of their caucus on board for a plan without any legislative language, which is a risky assumption indeed.

Be sure to keep up with the boss’ updates today on the Senate Finance Committee.


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He is giving himself an out. Good sign.

FireBlogger on October 13, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Rule #1 in medicine – DO NO HARM!

Why can’t Congress apply this rule to their spending of our money? Nothing is better than hurting us. . . and government spending will hurt all of our kids and their kids.

ThackerAgency on October 13, 2009 at 12:21 PM

It’s hopeful news at least.

Drained Brain on October 13, 2009 at 12:22 PM

The Light at the end of the tunnel?

DL13 on October 13, 2009 at 12:23 PM

This cancels out Snowe if she betrays us.

wildcat84 on October 13, 2009 at 12:24 PM

“People are beginning to think that they’ll do better with what they have.”

FIFY, Joe!

DOOF on October 13, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Attaboy Joe.

Now cue the “moderate, progressive” Joe-haters.

perroviejo on October 13, 2009 at 12:24 PM

May the bill “die quickly”…

PatriotRider on October 13, 2009 at 12:24 PM

When the country is broke, and deeply in debt, only lying charlatans can pretend that we can afford any of this Voodoo Obamanomics lunacy.

Just give direct grants for private insurance coverage to the several million legal citizens who are legitmately poor and uninsured and save the trillions this folly will entail, and the insane power grab it will foist on us for generations.

profitsbeard on October 13, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Still, if Lieberman votes against cloture and Olympia Snowe balks, the Senate effort will die a quick death.

From your keyboard to God’s ears please!

Juno77 on October 13, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Hey, Liberman’s making sense again, get him! Oh, wait, he already left the party…uhh…RACIST!

NickelAndDime on October 13, 2009 at 12:25 PM

What’s this…people are BEGINNING to think???Where ya been Joe? You fossil,wakeup!!!!!!!!!!!

ohiobabe on October 13, 2009 at 12:25 PM

May the bill “die quickly”…
PatriotRider on October 13, 2009 at 12:24 PM

That sure beats the country dying slowly.

Juno77 on October 13, 2009 at 12:26 PM

OBAMACARE IS DEAD! DEAD! DEAD!

Let’s do the math: 58 dems, 2 independents, 40 repubs

SO: obviously if they are going for 60 votes, leiberman means they won’t get 60

If they are going for 51 (i dont think you can use the tiebreaker with reconciliation, so theyd have to have 51?), then you need TEN DEFECTORS from the other side of the aisle.

Let’s look at “dem senators in really red states”

You have FOR SURE:

Lincoln (Arkansas)
Pryor (Arkansas)
Landrieu (Louisiana)
Benett (Colorado)
Nelson (Nebraska)
Dorgan (NDakota)
Conrad (NDakota)
Reid (Nevada)
Begich (Alaska)
Bayh (Indiana)
Baucus (Montana)

add in Lieberman and that’s 12 possible defectors, not including Tester, McCaskill, NM’s Bingaman, Florida’s Nelson….

Can we get 10 good people from that list of 17 or so????

I think YES.

battleoflepanto1571 on October 13, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Still, if Lieberman votes against cloture and Olympia Snowe balks, the Senate effort will die a quick death.

Cmon Sister. Our mostly red state donations went to the NRSC pool of funds, which they gave to you in your many re-election bids!

YOU OWE US!

battleoflepanto1571 on October 13, 2009 at 12:28 PM

I like the idea of doctors charging for outcomes. For example, $X for all maternity sevices during pregnancy and delivery of the child (sans complications), $Y dollars for fixing a broken leg, etc. But to mandate such things from government, NO THANKS.

WashJeff on October 13, 2009 at 12:29 PM

May the bill “die quickly”…

PatriotRider on October 13, 2009 at 12:24 PM

I hope it fails.

Joe Caps on October 13, 2009 at 12:29 PM

Set ‘em up, Joe…

TXUS on October 13, 2009 at 12:29 PM

I have been thinking the “do no harm” rule too, for a long time. I was thinking this morning that these people in the government should go back to remebering that they are “public servants” not infallible rulers. I have never in my life seen a group of people workng harder to do incredible harm.

Keep talking Joe.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 12:31 PM

And that assumes the Democrats have all of their caucus on board for a plan without any legislative language, which is a risky assumption indeed.

What’s so risky about that assumption? The Washington junta is PROUD to tout that they are voting on and passing legislation that no one has read. The idiot traitors put the Porkulus up, passed sight unseen, as one of the Traitor-in-Chief’s actual accomplishments.

To paraphrase Menken: No one ever went broke underestimating the stupidity, and pride of reckless anti-American idiocy, of the Washington junta.

progressoverpeace on October 13, 2009 at 12:32 PM

I like Joe on a few things, but I wonder if it takes effort the turn off the part of your brain that would say, “Hey, people aren’t going to last forever and we’re going to have to compensate doctors for heart transplants, cancer and kidney disease treatments.” Sheesh. It’s called a “practice” for a reason, Joe.

cpr on October 13, 2009 at 12:32 PM

I don’t care if the bill dies quickly. Actually, in the mood I’m currently in, I hope it’s death is long and agonizing.

annoyinglittletwerp on October 13, 2009 at 12:32 PM

OBAMACARE IS DEAD! DEAD! DEAD
///
While baucus lies thru his teeth saying he will be transparent and open!!!! Why would anybody believe that crock ,they don’t know what truthfulness and intrgeity are about?

ohiobabe on October 13, 2009 at 12:33 PM

That’s integrity!!!

ohiobabe on October 13, 2009 at 12:34 PM

Someone got Joe a cup of non-decaf!

TexasJew on October 13, 2009 at 12:34 PM

Great, but doesn’t he also support Cap & Tax?

moonsbreath on October 13, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Joe is still a Liberal, but every now and then, he tunes in to the American People, as says something that the majority of us agree with. That’s why the Democrats got rid of him.

kingsjester on October 13, 2009 at 12:40 PM

Way to go, Joe! Now it’s time to work on Odd Dodd…

Steve Z on October 13, 2009 at 12:41 PM

as=and
oops

kingsjester on October 13, 2009 at 12:41 PM

watch online http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN3_wm.aspx

battleoflepanto1571 on October 13, 2009 at 12:43 PM

I saw Lieberman and Imus and I thought this was a Zombieland trailer.

faraway on October 13, 2009 at 12:45 PM

I’m going to buck the trend and predict Snowe will either pass or vote no given that Lieberman opposes the bill.

Also you can’t compare the Baucus plan to the stimulus package either. See, the stimulus package is this abstract entity that if it had not passed it would have been used to cover Obama’s unemployment numbers and pound conservatives. Even now, people are arguing the stimulus hasn’t taken effect yet and will work.

The Baucus plan starts taxing people 3 years ahead of it’s implementation. It’s not popular now, and it’s as popular today as it will ever be. There is no downside to voting no on this bill. The taxes come on line next year right? Ok so come 2010-2012 this bill is a huge thorn in their side if it passes. In fact the only reason to vote yes is if you are aligned with lefties, there is no political benefit with the moderates who will decide the next couple elections.

jhffmn on October 13, 2009 at 12:45 PM

This cancels out Snowe if she betrays us.

wildcat84 on October 13, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Not to put too fine a point on this but any Senator who votes for this has betrayed America and Americans. This shouldn’t be a partisan vote, it should be blindingly obvious that this is the wrong approach. The Baucus legislation is probably the most responsible concept and even it goes too far to be legitimate legislation.

highhopes on October 13, 2009 at 12:47 PM

ND’s Conrad is bashing the public option right now.

The Blue Dogs are rising…..

battleoflepanto1571 on October 13, 2009 at 12:48 PM

From Ace

UPDATE:
Lincoln sounds like she’s voting yes. She cited the CBO scoring and then a litany of how awesome it will be for Arkansas.

Says she’s in for now but not a guarantee for the future. She sounds a little afraid for doing so but she’s in for now.

ICBM on October 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM

SNOWE IS TALKING!!!!

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN3_wm.aspx

battleoflepanto1571 on October 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM

I don’t care if the bill dies quickly. Actually, in the mood I’m currently in, I hope it’s death is long and agonizing.

annoyinglittletwerp on October 13, 2009 at 12:32 PM
//
Funny,I’m in the same mood,tired of all this infuriating news daily from the nuthouse BUT I am starting to feel better after hearing Rush say he is going after,behind the scenes,the people or person who started the racist and slave slander.Go Rush,I am ready to see somebody go down!!!

ohiobabe on October 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM

From Ace

UPDATE:
Lincoln sounds like she’s voting yes. She cited the CBO scoring and then a litany of how awesome it will be for Arkansas.

Says she’s in for now but not a guarantee for the future. She sounds a little afraid for doing so but she’s in for now.

ICBM on October 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM

I can’t imagine she actually will.

3 repubs no one has ever heard of are leading her by TEN POINTS in polls, and she faces reelection in 2010.

No way.

PS, snowe is talking NOW

battleoflepanto1571 on October 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM

And Mr. Gruber said that the PricewaterhouseCoopers report failed to take into account government subsidies that would be provided to help moderate-income Americans purchase insurance.

Like this government subsidy comes from “the gods” .. you get to pay for that too.

J_Crater on October 13, 2009 at 12:50 PM

This is the “blank slate” as there really is no bill

J_Crater on October 13, 2009 at 12:51 PM

Thank you Joe Lieberman.

cubachi on October 13, 2009 at 12:52 PM

On last Thursday’s episode of “The Senate Doctors Show,” Sen. Tom Coburn, M.D., and Sen. John Barrasso, M.D., talked about the Baucus plan, Medicare, fraud in the health care system. They explained why a Washington takeover of our health care system isn’t reform. Check it out: http://republican.senate.gov/doctors/

Sean Hackbarth
Senate Republican Conference

seanhackbarth on October 13, 2009 at 12:53 PM

Dang looks like snowe is voting yes on this plan; she is trashing it with all these concerns, and then she says “well, when history calls, history calls”

so she is voting YES

battleoflepanto1571 on October 13, 2009 at 12:57 PM

She is selling us out… watching her on C-Span right now. She is voting yes.

jhffmn on October 13, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Snowe votes YES, conditionally. She reserves right to back off if future versions of this look bad

battleoflepanto1571 on October 13, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Snowe votes YES, conditionally. She reserves right to back off if future versions of this look bad

battleoflepanto1571 on October 13, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Not at all surprised. An “iffy” yes vote.

JetBoy on October 13, 2009 at 12:59 PM

She is selling us out… watching her on C-Span right now. She is voting yes.

jhffmn on October 13, 2009 at 12:57 PM
//
Why should that surprise anybody?They have no principles,nothing to believe in other than themselves.

ohiobabe on October 13, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Not even the best of service guarantees a happy outcome, after all, and the concept would leave providers holding the bag for services provided to people who simply couldn’t recover from their illnesses.

It would also encourage physicians and hospitals to deny care to anyone who is seriously ill. If they die, the hospital doesn’t get paid.

MarkTheGreat on October 13, 2009 at 1:01 PM

This cancels out Snowe if when she betrays us.

wildcat84 on October 13, 2009 at 12:24 PM

FIFY

MarkTheGreat on October 13, 2009 at 1:02 PM

Olympia Snowe will bend over…cross that aisle.

HornetSting on October 13, 2009 at 1:04 PM

In retrospect, this isn’t ‘game over’ for we opponents of obamacare, in fact it’s not a biggie at all.

1. The dems had a 13-10 advantage in committees, so it was going to pass anyway

2. This ‘finance committee bill’ is one that the finance committee MADE. Love or hate obamacare, public option, etc., why would the finance committee present themselves a crap sandwich and then vote DOWN their own work?

3. The Blue dogs voting ‘yes’ and the RINOS voting ‘yes’ mean nothing; again, it’s the COMMITTEE bill, it’s not the final bill, besides, even Snowe reserved the right to change as later CBO scoring/budget reports came out in the next few weeks

4. The ‘big deal’ isn’t this committee bill anyway; it’s what happens when this bill is merged with the other committee bill (h.e.l.p. committee), and then what happens to the final senate version; and then what happens in the house (public option mania!); and then what happens in the back-to-the-senate compromise session; etc…. nothing unexpected happened today, and they haven’t even voted yet anyway

I still maintain OBAMACARE is DEAD! DEAD! DEAD!

battleoflepanto1571 on October 13, 2009 at 1:06 PM

The Federal government just needs to get the HE!! out of the health care market altogether then they won’t have to concern themselves with the cost. Do they care how much we pay for iPods, appliances, clothes, tires, lumber, and the many tens of thousands of products we purchase every day? No!

They only care about health care because they intruded on the market in with Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP. Their intrusion is a primary reason for the explosion in costs and so their ignorant solution is even greater intrusion. Economic illiterate all of them!

DerKrieger on October 13, 2009 at 1:08 PM

Olympia Snowe will DID bend over…cross that aisle.

HornetSting on October 13, 2009 at 1:04 PM

You are spot on. I JUST heard on Rush that the biatch bent over and crossed the aisle.

Geochelone on October 13, 2009 at 1:09 PM

I’m against this bill, too. And I’m a public option gal. But this bill is the worst of all worlds.

Frankly, teabaggers and progressives merge on this one.

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 1:11 PM

Here’s Sen. Snowe’s contact info: P: (202) 224-5344 or (800) 432-1599; Fax: (202) 224-1946

Time to drive this wretch out of the GOP.

elduende on October 13, 2009 at 1:12 PM

HornetSting on October 13, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Ewww. You had to put that image in my mind.

Duncan Khuver on October 13, 2009 at 1:12 PM

SNOWE IS TALKING!!!!

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN3_wm.aspx

battleoflepanto1571 on October 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM

How’d you like Baucus’ school girl giggle at her when she finished selling out?

Snowe should have had the morals to vote against it based solely on the cuts to the DSH (and other services to the poor & elderly) the Baucus’ “chairman’s mark” makes. We see you Olympia Snowe, we see what you just did there.

No one really expects her to be a Conservative, but shouldn’t she at least be a Scoop Jackson Democrat? She is a Progressive, eating her meals off the back of the poor while pretending to be their friend.

batterup on October 13, 2009 at 1:15 PM

Olympia Snowe Olive Oyl

Bulldogger on October 13, 2009 at 1:17 PM

Another questions is can the dems resurrect Byrd long enough to get him to vote? The still need him for 60. Maybe he’ll catch a cold or something.

jsulman on October 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM

For anyone who doubted that Snowe was nothing but a traitor, here it is. Can we kick her out of the GOP caucus, now (so that she can’t have her leftitst vote portrayed as a GOP vote)? She is the scum of the Earth and belongs in the Democrat party of Constitution-hating scum.

progressoverpeace on October 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 1:11 PM

I’m sorry, I’m trying to refrain, but can’t.

You disgust me.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 1:22 PM

Snowe just announced she will vote for the bill.I tried to call the RNC to tell them no more money from me ever again unless Chairman Steele comes out and tells snowe to leave the party today and no more rnc money for you.But they are not answering the phone and there mail is full.

thmcbb on October 13, 2009 at 1:23 PM

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 1:22 PM

This is what she said

Oh well, you guys just keep pursuing a radical fringe edge and poking fun at anyone who suggests different.
But this blog will be dead within 6 months.

Seriously.

AnninCA on September 18, 2009 at 2:37 PM

So if we disagree with CannedInCA we are radicals?

CannedInCA thinks that HotAir will be dead in about 5 months. Will she promise to leave forever if she is wrong?

Geochelone on October 13, 2009 at 1:36 PM

Can we REPLACE Sen. Liebermann with Sen. Snowe? Seriously! I’d take him over her any day.

Sultry Beauty on October 13, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Geochelone on October 13, 2009 at 1:36 PM

I can’t wait 5 months. Seriously. She is not very bright and definitely offensive and she disgusts me.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 1:42 PM

Anyone hear what happened in Connecticut? Some nut dressed as a ninja and waving nunchucks was arrested Sunday by the local cops in Vernon, for allegedly threatening Lieberman.

VERNON, CT (WPIX) – It wasn’t Halloween but just sheer disdain for a well known senator that led a Connecticut man to dress up in ninja gear and go on a warpath.

Garland Eastman, 30, of Vernon was charged Sunday with breach of peace after he allegedly waved nunchucks on the corner of Route 83 and Regan Road and threatened to beat up U.S. Sen. Joe Lieberman.

Authorities said they received several emergency calls from concerned residents about Eastman’s unusual behavior.

Officers said when they pulled out bean bag and taser guns, Eastman became polite and cooperative.

Authorities brought Eastman to Rockville General Hospital for a psychiatric evaluation, where he was later released.

Del Dolemonte on October 13, 2009 at 1:44 PM

thmcbb on October 13, 2009 at 1:23 PM

I got through to the RNC. They tried to tell me that they CANNOT kick her out of the party “unfortunately”.

I said, “We’re not for government intervention are we? Or has things changed?”

Response: “No, we are NOT for government intervention.”

ME: “Then she does not represent the fundamentals of our Party. She is representing as a GOP as such and therefore needs to be removed. And Michael Steele can most certainly do that.”

Response: “No, he can’t.”

ME: “Of course, he can!”

Response: “Thank you for your call.” {click}

They want your money. They tell you they don’t want Big Government but the Truth is they do want Big Government. They want you to sit down and STFU and take it. The GOP is done.

Sultry Beauty on October 13, 2009 at 1:46 PM

Joe Lieberman doesn’t oppose government intervention in the private health-care industry.

WHAT ARE YOU IMPLYING? CONSERVATIVES ARE NOT OPPOSED TO AND WILL ALWAYS SUPPORT HEALTHCARE REFORM …. AS LONG AS IT IS A TRUE REFORM.

I am conservative and I want a TRUE reform in health care.

Palin too. She’s for TRUE HEALTH CARE REFORM, which begins with TORT REFORM and REVAMP OF MEDICARE AND MEDICAID to make them more cost-effective while improving their services.

ED MORISSEY, YOU ARE MISREPRESENTING CONSERVATIVE POSITION ON THIS ISSUE.

TheAlamos on October 13, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Time and again … Lieberman has remained the most honest, pro-American Democrat of this Century.

Lieberman is more conservative than many Republicans these days. That includes Romney.

TheAlamos on October 13, 2009 at 2:19 PM

You disgust me.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 1:22 PM

I feel bad for some of you who are so emotional about anyone who disagrees with you.

Must be a very tough spot.

BTW, I don’t care what your feelings are.

If you feel “disgusted,” then, I guess, you’ve got to feel those feelings and deal with them.

I sure don’t.

:)

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:19 PM

I got through to the RNC. They tried to tell me that they CANNOT kick her out of the party “unfortunately”.

I said, “We’re not for government intervention are we? Or has things changed?”

Do you not understand the basics of Democracy?

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:20 PM

Cmon Sister. Our mostly red state donations went to the NRSC pool of funds, which they gave to you in your many re-election bids!

YOU OWE US!

battleoflepanto1571 on October 13, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Snowe just announced she will vote for the bill.I tried to call the RNC to tell them no more money from me ever again unless Chairman Steele comes out and tells snowe to leave the party today and no more rnc money for you.But they are not answering the phone and there mail is full.

thmcbb on October 13, 2009 at 1:23 PM

I called the phone number on the RNC dot org site and listened to the options. I selected option 5, “donor services” and politely but firmly told the guy who came on the line to take me off their list. I told him I will NEVER contribute another dime to them at the national level because they keep putting RNC money behind RINOs like Snowe.

I told him I could barely contain my fury at this vote. In addition, I knew that the RNC is pushing Cristie on the folks in FL instead of the real conservative in the primary. I told him that in the future, I will be donating to the primary opponent of every RINO in the senate and the high profile RINOs in teh House.

karenhasfreedom on October 13, 2009 at 2:29 PM

karenhasfreedom on October 13, 2009 at 2:29 PM

You’re absolutely right. Enough is enough. Funding and support for an organization supporting RINO’s has got to end, unless you support the RINO’s. It has become obvious through the tea parties that the majority truly have conservative views. Olympia Snow is as conservative as any other liberal. Time to separate them out and try to put money where the principles are.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:35 PM

Oh please, Snowe isn’t really important. She’s one vote.

If any vote is that close, then, the real issue is the debate in the public.

I personally think that this bill is appalling. This isn’t at all what people wanted.

Whatever.

It’s beyond manipulation by the policians.

This is an awful bill, nobody likes it, and that’s NOT a selling point, as it sometimes is.

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 3:01 PM

AnninCA, Debate in Public?
It already LOST in Public.
Are You really that stupid?
Where have You been?

No One wants it but the Marxist Regime.
Get your head out of your backside.

old trooper2 on October 13, 2009 at 3:43 PM

I hope we still are able to kill this monster. I am so depressed. One thing that makes me smile is MM being called the Boss, I love it! It reminds me of when I used to be the boss in a away. You go girl! I mean woman, but you know what I mean.

immigrantchick on October 13, 2009 at 6:59 PM

And I knew it would be Snow to be the trader. That is why I was asking people to contact her. Probably would not have helped. I cannot believe that all she cares about is no deficit spending (though that is an ifi) even if it raises taxes, costs, etc. What a monster, what an arrogant imperialist monster.

immigrantchick on October 13, 2009 at 7:01 PM

Heh, he is more of a republican than Snowe….

paulsur on October 13, 2009 at 9:43 PM