Cap and trade imbalance between states has Midwest mad

posted at 2:10 pm on October 13, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

While Congress debates the overhaul of one-sixth of the American economy with ObamaCare, another sixth of the economy looks as though it will get allocated on a political basis.  The New York Times reports on an EPA analysis of emissions credits that favor mostly coastal states — mainly Democratic strongholds — at the expense of Midwestern and coal-belt states.  Energy producers are up in arms, but everyone should be objecting to this rather corrupt allocation of emissions licenses:

A new U.S. EPA analysis requested by Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) is spawning a lobbying frenzy among Midwestern utilities that claim the document shows they will be treated unfairly under federal climate legislation.

They say the assessment (pdf) reveals that states like California will receive a financial windfall under a global warming bill, while states like Wisconsin will not get enough help and will have to spike electricity rates as a result.

“The EPA document just confirms the formula will disadvantage Midwest states for decades to come while the coastal states will hit a ‘federal jackpot’ every year over the life of the new program,” said Zachary Hill, senior manager of federal government affairs at Alliant Energy, a Wisconsin-based utility.

Some environmentalists are counterattacking that the three-page report is flawed because its author relied on questionable methodology and analyzed only one part of a bill that passed the House earlier this year. They also say a Senate version of climate legislation is still being drafted and could make EPA’s statements moot.

“I have not been particularly impressed of certain aspects of EPA modeling,” said Joe Romm, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress. “It looks to me like they’ve done what is easy for them to do, but isn’t accurate.”

Unfortunately for that argument, Waxman-Markey already passed the House.  The Senate version may address this problem, but the issue will likely remain all the way through the conference committee.  Note, too, that Romm and CAP didn’t object to the problem shown in the analysis while Waxman-Markey got rushed through the House in early July.  Also, while Romm claims to be unimpressed with the EPA’s modeling, he also neglects to mention that the EPA will be in charge of the entire process if cap-and-trade passes.

The EPA analysis shows some interesting variations in the burden of carbon compliance, based on the legislative language in Waxman-Markey.  How many million tons do each state emit at the moment, and what will they be allowed to emit by 2012?  Let’s start with a few notable coastal states:

  • California – 87 now, between 99-127 in 2012
  • Florida – 138 now, between 111-112 in 2012
  • New York – 57 now, between 58-69 in 2012
  • Washington – 35 now, between 35-41 in 2012
  • Oregon – 20 now, between 20-23 in 2012
  • Massachusetts – 24 now, between 23-27 in 2012

Alone among these traditional Democratic strongholds is Republican-leaning Florida, which will be asked to make massive cuts of at least 15% or buy excess credits … from places like California, New York, Washington, and so on.  What about Midwestern or coal-belt states?

  • Minnesota – 56 now, 33-45 in 2012
  • Wisconsin – 55 now, 34-44 in 2012
  • Michigan – 77 now, 52-62 in 2012
  • Iowa – 36 now, 21-29 in 2012
  • Indiana – 75 now, 52-61 in 2012
  • Ohio – 110 now, 76-89 in 2012
  • Pennsylvania – 84 now, 68-72 in 2012
  • West Virginia – 23 now, 16-19 in 2012
  • Kentucky – 62 now, 44-50 in 2012

Get the picture?  The EPA predicts that Waxman-Markey will force the interior states to buy excess credits from those states, mainly on the coasts, that will have so many emissions credits that they can sell them to bolster their state governments.  Just coincidentally, most of those are states that go Democratic in national elections.  California’s example is especially egregious, given the potential for almost 150% of current emissions in credits for 2012.  Perhaps it’s also no coincidence that Henry Waxman represents the Golden State in Congress.

Emissions allocations look less like an energy policy and a lot more like Chicago-on-the-Potomac.

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

Didn’t we once have a 10th Amendment?

mankai on October 13, 2009 at 2:13 PM

Democrats loading up a bill to benefit their voters at the expense of the country.

Where have I heard that before?

I remember. Everywhere.

MarkTheGreat on October 13, 2009 at 2:14 PM

The EPA predicts that Waxman-Markey will force the interior states to buy excess credits from those states, mainly on the coasts, that will have so many emissions credits that they can sell them to bolster their state governments.

It’s so retarded.

lorien1973 on October 13, 2009 at 2:15 PM

From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.

I read that somewhere, maybe it was when I was on a tour of EAST Berlin.

Just A Grunt on October 13, 2009 at 2:15 PM

Can we just kick the Far Left Coast out of the union? I think both sides would be happier.

I am tired of being screwed over by those Left Coast politicians. And to call them American takes just about all the meaning out of the word.

WannabeAnglican on October 13, 2009 at 2:16 PM

I wish I wasn’t so addicted to reading HotAir.
My blood boils on a constant basis.

Oh hell, just as my health could go downhill, they go and put the government in charge of healthcare.

I’m going to need morphine here soon. Scratch that. I think I need to hire MJ’s doctor. UGH *#&$&*#^$

bridgetown on October 13, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Oh goodie. After the collossal stupidity that has come from the healthcare debate we get this nonsense.

When are the Dems going to start killing each other? This fight ought to be on pay for view.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:16 PM

I suppose the Midwest could lower their carbon emissions enough to satisfy the coastal Blue State pols by cutting down on farm production and farm vehicle use by just producing enough crops for their own local areas, but I don’t think that’s the plan Waxman and other had in mind.

jon1979 on October 13, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Coal? Corn?

oh please.

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:17 PM

The whole thing is a scam. Big suprise Enron were the ones who came up with it.

Joe Caps on October 13, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Didn’t we once have a 10th Amendment?

mankai

Was that part of that Constitution thing on which we used to base our federal government?

mchristian on October 13, 2009 at 2:19 PM

I can see it now. The broke state of Michigan trading carbon credits to the broke state of CA for what? Food maybe> Oh wait, they would have to turn the water on and kill the smelt.
Illegals? Prinsoners?
This would be funny if the people running the show were not elected supposed adults.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:19 PM

If this kind of discrimination keeps up, there will eventually be strife between the states.

Revenant on October 13, 2009 at 2:19 PM

The midwestern Dems will whine and complain and then vote for it anyway, even if 75% of the country is against it.

Mark1971 on October 13, 2009 at 2:19 PM

Quit mining coal and growing corn and let the bastards freeze and starve.

hip shot on October 13, 2009 at 2:19 PM

That’s O.K. That midwestern segment will split right off, north to south, when the time comes(and it’s getting closer). Then, I don’t know who will buy the coasties’ excess credits.

a capella on October 13, 2009 at 2:20 PM

We are farked in Indiana if this craptastic legislation passes. It is no wonder that our guv Mitch Daniels is such a vocal opponent of it. It’s a job killa plain and simple.

Democrats: Destroying the economy one industry at a time.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 13, 2009 at 2:20 PM

The EPA predicts that Waxman-Markey will force the interior states to buy excess credits from those states, mainly on the coasts, that will have so many emissions credits that they can sell them to bolster their state governments.

Divine Caesar has ordered the Inner Provinces pay a tribute to the Exterior Provinces.

Revenant on October 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM

Smart power. A democrat state like Michigan gets hosed. Good, the spike in home energy bills and an explanation as to WHY these bill are spiking will go a long way in erasing liberals from power in this state.

Ripping Blue Cross to pieces here will finish the job.

These liberals remind me of emo goths, cutting themselves for attention, except the liberals are cutting their throats with chainsaws instead of picking at their forearms with razor blades. Go for it libs, erase yourselves faster please.

Spiritk9 on October 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM

Oh, well, I personally support nuclear power and Palin’s suggestions.

I’m not in support of “clean coal,” which is so not clean at all.

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:22 PM

I can see it now. The broke state of Michigan trading carbon credits to the broke state of CA for what? Food maybe> Oh wait, they would have to turn the water on and kill the smelt.
Illegals? Prinsoners?
This would be funny if the people running the show were not elected supposed adults.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:19 PM

Oh no, Jennie Granholm is excited! Why? Because some battery manufacturer is moving to Michigan. They are such hypocrites. Do you know how toxic it is to make the “green” batteries for autos? It’s so toxic we cannot manufacture those components in the United States (EPA violations). We have to import those components from other countries.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 13, 2009 at 2:23 PM

Annin,

Have you seen a new coal fired plant? Probably cleaner than your underwear.

hip shot on October 13, 2009 at 2:23 PM

I can see it now. The broke state of Michigan trading carbon credits to the broke state of CA for what? Food maybe> Oh wait, they would have to turn the water on and kill the smelt.
Illegals? Prinsoners?
This would be funny if the people running the show were not elected supposed adults.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:19 PM

If Michigan has to buy carbon credits at their current manufacturing rate then they will be in perpetual depression.

fourdeucer on October 13, 2009 at 2:23 PM

Do only idiots run for and hold office anymore?! (*E$&%R(

bridgetown on October 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM

jon1979 on October 13, 2009 at 2:17 PM

I think you’re on to sometihng. There was a book a couple years ago by an uber lib that suggested that the way to solve Detroit’s problems was to basically bulldoze it and return it to a farming community of 1800. No kidding. So, I suppose that would work for the midwestern states but the unions would have to refocus their recruitment.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Can we just kick the Far Left Coast out of the union? I think both sides would be happier.

I am tired of being screwed over by those Left Coast politicians. And to call them American takes just about all the meaning out of the word.

WannabeAnglican on October 13, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Inland California would be overjoyed if it could kick the coast line out of the state.

Count to 10 on October 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Oh, well, I personally support nuclear power and Palin’s suggestions.

I’m not in support of “clean coal,” which is so not clean at all.

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:22 PM

Show me one single study that has clean coal as being dirty, just one. Oh and not one sponsored by the ethanol (corn) industry.

Johnnyreb on October 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Revenant on October 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM

Four legs good; two legs better.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 13, 2009 at 2:25 PM

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 13, 2009 at 2:23 PM

Yep, they whine about taking Canadian trash but then want to turn “green” and more toxic.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:25 PM

Barry: “It’s good to spread the wealth credits around.”

Vashta.Nerada on October 13, 2009 at 2:26 PM

Have you seen a new coal fired plant? Probably cleaner than your underwear.

hip shot on October 13, 2009 at 2:23 PM

OK, I hope you’re telling the truth here.

I still say, nuclear and drilling as Palin says.

I worry about coal.

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:26 PM

AnninCA has no idea what she is talking about.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:26 PM

This legislation, quite simply, will be more devastating to the economy than even ObamaCare.

And, as this study shows, Cap and Tax has secession/civil war written all over it, and the very chaos that Soros/Obama so desire to take full control.

TXUS on October 13, 2009 at 2:27 PM

I understand the point about California getting a break, but gee a 150% break. Come on, I know Waxman is from CA, but 150%? Even stupid people are going to be able to figure that out.

One point I have is; California can’t even supply it’s owen electricity needs, it buys a huge amount of electric from out of state. How is it going to support an increase of 150%. There is no way that California government is going to let anyone build any nasty power plants in their state. So where is all this magical electricity going to come from?

Johnnyreb on October 13, 2009 at 2:32 PM

AnninCA has no idea what she is talking about.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:26 PM

Well, I think you already stated everything. “you disgust me.”

LOL* So, that’s what I call a “game-ender” statement.

We have nothing to exchange in terms of political information or opinions.

You have arrived at a judgmental place.

In other words, let me talk to other people, unless you’re really a big jerk.

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:33 PM

What about the Gulf Coast states, Georgia, Virginia, and the Carolinas, which usually vote Republican?

Is this a deal to favor the coasts over the landlocked states, or to favor blue over red?

Dems to GOP: We cap, you trade.

Steve Z on October 13, 2009 at 2:34 PM

I’m not in support of “clean coal,” which is so not clean at all.

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:22 PM

I’ll be happy to read the peer reviewed studies which support your position.

a capella on October 13, 2009 at 2:34 PM

If this kind of discrimination keeps up, there will eventually be strife between the states.

Revenant on October 13, 2009 at 2:19 PM

The last time one section of the country tried to use it’s votes in congress to force other portions of the country to buy what it wanted to sell. It led to war.

The difference is, this time the portions of the country being robbed, have most of the guns, and the will to use them.

MarkTheGreat on October 13, 2009 at 2:35 PM

The only argument the enviro weenies have against coal power plants is the amount of CO2 they emit. When they say dirty that is really what they are referring to.

Here in GA we had the building of coal power plant stopped because the judge ruled the CO2 emission to be harmful in accordance with information provided to him by an enviromental group and the EPA. 500 jobs lost in the construction and about 150 jobs long term after it was built. Junk science is a bigger threat then actual facts.

Just A Grunt on October 13, 2009 at 2:37 PM

AnninCa, get over yourself. You post stuff that you admittedly have no idea about and then just keep repeating it.
If you want to learn, welcome to the club, if you want to be ignorant and offensive, you are going to get negative feedback. I know I’m not the only one who finds you offensive. Learn if you want, otherwise find somewhere that will support your baseless talking points.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:38 PM

This bill isn’t just about energy generation it is about energy consumption, we are going to have mandated limits on usage with no means of generating energy.

fourdeucer on October 13, 2009 at 2:40 PM

I did just a quick review of the .pdf from the article, and it sure looks like red states take the big hit by a fairly significant margin. Can someone else look at it?

Johnnyreb on October 13, 2009 at 2:40 PM

AnninCa, get over yourself. You post stuff that you admittedly have no idea about and then just keep repeating it.

Again, we all get your opinion on my posts.

And we’re also not impressed.

You’re rant over one anonymous poster is ridiculous.

The rest of us really would like to exchange real information.

So please understand if I’m not overly reactive to your rant. It simply isn’t interesting to me.

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:41 PM

The radical liberals will figure out how to share the damage that they intend to inflict on Americans through this ridiculous tax scheme. They will get it done so that they can get their hands on all that tax revenue at the expense of American consumers. Their internal squabbles are just a side show.

GaltBlvnAtty on October 13, 2009 at 2:41 PM

10 years after passage of Waxman/Markey/Kerry:

Osama: Who’s living in a cave now beotch?

Just A Grunt on October 13, 2009 at 2:42 PM

The common sense response would be to kill and bury the legislation. Unfortunately the only flaw to that plan is that it is common sense :(

aikidoka on October 13, 2009 at 2:43 PM

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:41 PM

lol

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:44 PM

Isn’t Calif. one of the most polluted states there is? I don’t buy these numbers first off, second, being that they are so polluted with smog THEY should be paying more to clean their own damned air, and they should have to pay an additional penalty because they’re in the west, their smoggy crap flows eastward which is polluting everything east of these libtards.

I’m getting sick of these liberals schemes to reward California for being run by a pack of retards.

Spiritk9 on October 13, 2009 at 2:44 PM

Nothing short of revolution will stop this absolute nonsense

PatriotRider on October 13, 2009 at 2:46 PM

Do only idiots run for and hold office anymore?! (*E$&%R(

bridgetown on October 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Nope. Idiots Vote for them and wonder why they get the sharp end of the stick. Mystery solved.

old trooper2 on October 13, 2009 at 2:47 PM

KS 35 now, 19-29 future.

Hey Kansas… can you cut 17-46% of your emissions so California can increase theirs? Thanks.

CO 43 now, 24-35 under this plan.

Hey Colorado, you’ll need 19-44% cuts as well. C’mon, you have to do your part so California can have higher emissions.

Sadly, here in Colorado; our two idiots in the Senate are sure to vote for this.

gekkobear on October 13, 2009 at 2:47 PM

That’s what I was thinking, Spritk9, how does the list make any sense? Unless there is cash involved.

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Johnnyreb at 2:32
Waxman is just doing his thing for his constituents, like all politicians. He figures that California needs this break to make up for the fact that it does not get a break on increased medicaid expenses like Reid got for Utah and a few other states.

GaltBlvnAtty on October 13, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Nothing short of revolution will stop this absolute nonsense

PatriotRider on October 13, 2009 at 2:46 PM

Absolutely Correct Rider.

old trooper2 on October 13, 2009 at 2:49 PM

So. . . we know a few things.

#1 – California doesn’t produce enough electricity to supply it’s needs.

#2 – California must buy energy from other states. Specifically those who use coal.

#3 – This scheme, gives California an excess in credits. The only state to get a real increase.

So. . . What we’ll have here is California being essentially “bailed out” through the gift of carbon credits with which they can extort the very states from which they have to purchase power.

Or we can look at it as the rest of the nation subsidizing California AGAIN, for their failure to provide enough power for their citizens.

This is total BS on so many levels, it’s getting to the breaking point for many I’m sure.

Jason Coleman on October 13, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Oh, well, I personally support nuclear power and Palin’s suggestions.

I’m not in support of “clean coal,” which is so not clean at all.

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:22 PM

ill informed commenter is ill informed

theguardianii on October 13, 2009 at 2:50 PM

One point I have is; California can’t even supply it’s owen electricity needs, it buys a huge amount of electric from out of state. How is it going to support an increase of 150%. There is no way that California government is going to let anyone build any nasty power plants in their state. So where is all this magical electricity going to come from?

Johnnyreb on October 13, 2009 at 2:32 PM

The San Diego Chargers. :)

Forgive me for being snarky, but Johnnyreb has a point. They simply won’t build the power plants, but they will sell their extra carbon credits to companies in states who DO build power plants, and use them to buy the electricity they don’t generate. Robbing coal-state Peter to pay Golden State Paul, who feels SO good about being “green”.

Ya know, like, that San Joaquin valley might be a little more, like, GREEN if they sent some more, like, WATER…

Those movie stars in Collie-fornia will still have to put those ugly high-tension wires somewhere, until Captain Kirk figures out a way to beam it down, Scotty!

But ya gotta be GREEN in Collie-fornia, and coal is black! Does that mean they’re racist?

Steve Z on October 13, 2009 at 2:50 PM

Socialism is slavery.

You don’t get a better example than this. The ‘Party’ gets the money (or carbon credits); anyone not in the the ‘Party’ gets to sacrifice for the greater good.

bitsy on October 13, 2009 at 2:53 PM

We will have some states start to rebell. Where is the constitutional authority to tax states and pay states? States will just tax the energy before selling it to California or new York. Kamsas has faucets and can shut off gas to chicago and Detroit. Just like Russia did to Georgia.

seven on October 13, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Pass health care bill 14-9. Olympia Snowe needs to go.

milwife88 on October 13, 2009 at 2:54 PM

So. . . What we’ll have here is California being essentially “bailed out” through the gift of carbon credits with which they can extort the very states from which they have to purchase power.

Or we can look at it as the rest of the nation subsidizing California AGAIN, for their failure to provide enough power for their citizens.

This is total BS on so many levels, it’s getting to the breaking point for many I’m sure.

Jason Coleman on October 13, 2009 at 2:49 PM

It would not only be officially sanctioned extortion, but the idiots in California would still sneer at the ‘dirty state’ people who provide the power to charge up their Pious Priuses.

Vashta.Nerada on October 13, 2009 at 2:55 PM

The states that are being penalized that also ‘sell’ electricity to California need to stop generating excess electricity totally. If they only generate what they need for their locality they can’t sell any to Cal, and won’t be penalized because they won’t be making “excess emissions”.

California would get boned times 2, multiplied by each surrounding state being penalized. Good, I’m for that.

Spiritk9 on October 13, 2009 at 2:55 PM

Finance Committee only. BTW: Doesn’t she kind of look like Ichabod Crane?

milwife88 on October 13, 2009 at 2:56 PM

The states that are being penalized that also ’sell’ electricity to California need to stop generating excess electricity totally. If they only generate what they need for their locality they can’t sell any to Cal, and won’t be penalized because they won’t be making “excess emissions”.

California would get boned times 2, multiplied by each surrounding state being penalized. Good, I’m for that.

Spiritk9 on October 13, 2009 at 2:55 PM

No, what is going to happen is that they will use the courts to force states to sell to CA.

Vashta.Nerada on October 13, 2009 at 2:57 PM

I worry about coal.

AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:26 PM

Why?
Geologically speaking we are in a minimum for the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere. Going up to the average of 1000 ppm would be good for plant life.

chemman on October 13, 2009 at 2:58 PM

The same thing is happening with the Baucus bill. Certain favored states will get the additional medicaid expenses covered by the federal government (Nevada, Oregon, Rhode Island and Michigan) and certain state with ‘high medical expenses’ (read: expensive state required insurance coverage mandates) will have the tax on ‘Cadillac’ plans start at higher levels.

If they get away with this how long before they try setting different federal income tax brackets depending on your state of residence?

agmartin on October 13, 2009 at 2:58 PM

For a few hours during the most recent California budget process there was agreement to allow drilling one well off Santa Barbara. That provision did not survive.
We should be developing every type of energy resource, including oil and coal.
I don’t see that we can hope for a revolution to solve this problem. I think Americans need to strike a major blow in November 2010.

GaltBlvnAtty on October 13, 2009 at 2:59 PM

I there something about living close enough to the ocean to smell the salt air, that causes the brain to rot?

MarkTheGreat on October 13, 2009 at 3:00 PM

Any state that sells electricity to California, should immediately double it’s rates.

MarkTheGreat on October 13, 2009 at 3:03 PM

Holy C2@p! Look at TX!

TX 205 now; 164 – 165 in 2012

Suppose we just decide to tell the EPA: “y’all can go to hell.” How would they force us to comply? Seriously?

bitsy on October 13, 2009 at 3:03 PM

Get the picture? The EPA predicts that Waxman-Markey will force the interior states to buy excess credits from those states, mainly on the coasts, that will have so many emissions credits that they can sell them to bolster their state governments.

What would elgeneralisimo do…

States getting screwed enter into a compact thereby assessing a tax or fee upon any energy generation(every kilowatt generated, every gallon of oil pumped, every ton of coal mined, etc.) sold into States making out like bandits. Costs of the carbon trading scheme are then passed back to the citizens of the bandit States…

elgeneralisimo on October 13, 2009 at 3:04 PM

The folks here in Indiana are upset about this. What effect do they think this will have on an already stagnant economy?

Terrye on October 13, 2009 at 3:05 PM

Errrrr! Errrrrr!!!

bitsy on October 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM

ORconservative on October 13, 2009 at 2:26 PM
AnninCA on October 13, 2009 at 2:33 PM

.
Clean coal is neither clean nor dirty. It simply doesn’t exist. If it did exits, as the concept goes, it would be better described as Wasteful Coal.

The idea is to remove the CO2 from the smoke stacks and pump it into the ground (carbon sequestration). Lots of money being spent on the notion, so it is popular with the rent-seekers. Problem is, that it takes 35-40% of the energy generated to sequester the carbon, in addition to the cost of finding some place to put it, and the cost of getting it in to the ground. So you get 60% of the energy, and spend a heck of a lot more in getting it. Total waste.

Global warming is a dead issue, it’s been discredited, but the press and the “experts” profiting from it refuse to see that. So like the dead body in “Weekend at Bernie’s,” they just keep dragging it out as the center of attention. But it’s still dead.

iurockhead on October 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM

So, living here in Nebraska, our local coal-fired power plant will be penalized, raising my electrical rates???

Hey, at least they can buy carbon credits from the local farmers if they agree to plant their croplands to grass and render them non-productive!!!.

What could possibly go wrong?

cntrlfrk on October 13, 2009 at 3:08 PM

Holy C2@p! Look at TX!

TX 205 now; 164 – 165 in 2012
Suppose we just decide to tell the EPA: “y’all can go to hell.” How would they force us to comply? Seriously?

bitsy on October 13, 2009 at 3:03 PM

I imagine we are going to do just that. Since the bill is unconstitutional on its face, we’ll sue.

Vashta.Nerada on October 13, 2009 at 3:08 PM

Can we just kick the Far Left Coast out of the union?

The next good tremblor could do that for us. :)

blr2449 on October 13, 2009 at 3:09 PM

Terrye on October 13, 2009 at 3:05 PM

While your economy is in the toilet now, this will land it in the septic tank.

chemman on October 13, 2009 at 3:10 PM

Well Michigan is doing its part by cratering economically. Soon we’ll have the whole country looking like Michigan.

rbj on October 13, 2009 at 3:16 PM

People got mad at me last year when I said I hope CA would break off and sink in the ocean. Still want to prop it up?

di butler on October 13, 2009 at 3:24 PM

elgeneralisimo: While I like it, your idea would not stand up to attack from the feds in federal court.
iurockhead: We used to be the world leader in scientific thought, and if we regain that attitude we can figure out how to make coal work efficiently. I agree that Global Warming is a myth scientifically, but it is The Reality in our political system, so we have to deal with it or our political system.
Again, the solution is available to Americans at the polls in November 2010.

GaltBlvnAtty on October 13, 2009 at 3:25 PM

NONE OF THIS IS ABOUT POLLUTION.

NONE OF IT IS ABOUT HEALTH CARE.

IT’S ALL ABOUT REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH!!!!!

Period.

drjohn on October 13, 2009 at 3:26 PM

Some of the people in those mid-western states and
Florida are going to have to stop breathing for so many hours a day I guess. But never fear, with health rationing and death panels that problem will soon be settled. You see, the Obama administration and the Dem Congress have it all under control. How could you ever doubt it! I wonder what DC carbon emissions are and where they have to cut down….or are they exempt since the blow hard problem there must be intractable.

jeanie on October 13, 2009 at 3:27 PM

That’s why the wealth is being taken from those whose states don’t suck as much and given to those whose states suck big time.

drjohn on October 13, 2009 at 3:27 PM

Where do they get the current # and projected #? I’m from California and can’t believe we have the # of consumed tons they suggest. We are the highest population and have the worst driving habits. We have little nuclear, and no decent plans for improving our numbers except by taxing business so bad the jobs will all be gone. I hope we can get enough money from selling our credits, so that those of us that stay, can all live off the State.

Dog bites on October 13, 2009 at 3:44 PM

This dog, and pony show of a bill MUST be abolished!!!

capejasmine on October 13, 2009 at 3:52 PM

Just setting up the new coalitions for the next civil war: Interior states against coastal blue states.

This criminal administration needs to be whipped from office, it’s getting way out of control.

Bishop on October 13, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Note that some of the states whose allowable CO2 would be higher are also losing population.

burt on October 13, 2009 at 3:56 PM

I’ll run for governor. Only then will I trade beer, cheese and brats to the coastal states.

Jeff from WI on October 13, 2009 at 3:59 PM

some states are more equal than others…

right4life on October 13, 2009 at 3:59 PM

For those of us in Colorado the solution is rather simple. We start redirecting water from the Colorado River towards the front range.

jdkchem on October 13, 2009 at 4:04 PM

For the clean coal folks, what exactly about mountain top removal is clean? There isn’t one energy producing technology that doesn’t have some negative environmental impact. Unfortunately people aren’t smart enough to look at the technology in it’s entirety.

jdkchem on October 13, 2009 at 4:08 PM

For those of us in Colorado the solution is rather simple. We start redirecting water from the Colorado River towards the front range.

jdkchem on October 13, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Uhhh… you do know that you’d have to get that water over the divide? Which would be almost impossible?

Romeo13 on October 13, 2009 at 4:11 PM

jdchem: In addition to Romeo’s response, your plan would never get by the feds and the greens and their friends in the federal courts. The fish in the Sacramento delta need that water. The now out of work farmers and their employees in the once world-class and world feeding farms in the central valley of California have aleady been written off.

GaltBlvnAtty on October 13, 2009 at 4:18 PM

Uhhh… you do know that you’d have to get that water over the divide? Which would be almost impossible?

Romeo13 on October 13, 2009 at 4:11 PM

It is called tunneling.

Holger on October 13, 2009 at 4:34 PM

It seems to me that is becoming evermore apparent that “blue states” have have dug themselves into an otherwise insurmountable fiscal quandry through their leftist collectivism policies. Have now decided to “cover up” the fact these policies are unworkable by robbing from “red states” that wisely did not follow their enlightened “leadership” on social issues.

This Cap & Trade example is not the first. MA, OR, MN, and few others to varying degree have adpoted healthcare the “reforms” currently being discussed on the hill. These programs are going bust, and rather than admit the failure they now mean to tap the funds of others to cover it.

As I am sure others may be tired hearing state it, Ayn Rand predicted all these inevitable events in the 40′s & 50′s in Fountainhead & Atlas. She demonstrably showed what the end result would look like when we first veered off the course of rugged individualism and the inherent virtue of Capitalism.

This monstrosity now coming onto full maturity has been building since FDR. I fear that if it not stopped DEAD IN IT”S TRACKS IMMEDIATELY, we may not be able to reddress our problems until’ “the motor of the world” truly stops.

Archimedes on October 13, 2009 at 4:37 PM

No water from the Great Lakes for anyone!

Jeff from WI on October 13, 2009 at 4:39 PM

NONE OF THIS IS ABOUT POLLUTION.

NONE OF IT IS ABOUT HEALTH CARE.

IT’S ALL ABOUT REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH!!!!!

Period.

drjohn on October 13, 2009 at 3:26 PM

You are most correct sir, but redistribution betwixt our states is but phase 1, and will be rendered meaningless once the industrialized world strats it’s FAR LARGER redistribution to the 3rd world.

Archimedes on October 13, 2009 at 4:42 PM

Archimedes: Exactly right, but I am concerned that “immediately” may not arrive until November 2010.

GaltBlvnAtty on October 13, 2009 at 4:43 PM

Comment pages: 1 2