Those Taliban moderates and their moderate ways
posted at 2:20 pm on October 12, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
The Obama administration wants to start rhetorically separating the Taliban from al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, but in Pakistan, they’re not fooled. Forty-one people died from a suicide bombing in a crowded marketplace in Peshawar, not far from Swat, where the Pakistani government has conducted military operations against the Pakistani Taliban. The Taliban took credit for the attack, which also wounded 45:
A suicide car bombing targeting Pakistani troops killed 41 people Monday, the fourth grisly militant attack in just over a week, as the Taliban pledged to mobilize fighters across the country for more strikes. …
In the latest strike, a suicide bomber detonated a car packed with explosives near an army vehicle in a market in the northwest Shangla district, provincial Information Minister Mian Iftikhar Hussain said. The attack killed 41, including six security officers, and wounded 45 other people, he said. There was no immediate claim of responsibility. …
The recent string of bloody attacks began last week when a suicide bomber blew himself up inside a heavily guarded U.N. aid agency in the heart of the capital, Islamabad, killing five staffers. On Friday, a suspected militant detonated an explosives-laden car in the middle of a busy market in the northwestern city of Peshawar, killing 53 people.
Those attacks were followed by the raid on army headquarters in the city of Rawalpindi on Saturday that killed nine militants and 14 others. Military spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said the militants were hoping to seize senior army officials and trade them for their jailed comrades.
At least the attack on a military headquarters focused on a legitimate military target. The other attacks targeted civilians, which makes it terrorism. All of these attacks come from the Taliban in Pakistan, not their allies in al-Qaeda.
Meanwhile, the White House may have a better idea than the trial balloons it has floated lately. In a strategy taken directly from the surge in Iraq, the US may simply outbid the Taliban for native security services (via Allahpundit):
The Obama administration is considering outbidding the Taliban to persuade Afghan villagers to lay down arms as it struggles to find a new approach to a war that is fast losing public and congressional support. …
Afghans are known for changing sides back and forth during their long years of war — there is an old saying that “you can rent an Afghan but never buy one” — and battles have often been decided by defections rather than combat.
Paying Taliban foot-soldiers to switch sides could spare US lives and save money, say its advocates. A recent report by the Senate foreign relations committee estimated the Taliban fighting strength at 15,000, of whom only 5% are committed idealogues while 70% fight for money — the so-called $10-a-day Taliban. Doubling this to win them over would cost just $300,000 a day, compared with the $165m a day the United States is spending fighting the war.
The tactic was used to good effect in Iraq where the US government put 100,000 Sunni gunmen on its payroll for about $300 a month each.
However, that success in Iraq did not come by implementing this policy alone. General David Petraeus applied this strategy along with a large increase in troops and aggressiveness against insurgents, combining the power of all tactics into a successful counterinsurgency. Even with these payments, we would still need substantial increases in troop strength in Afghanistan in order to make sure that, well, our Afghans stay bought.
This actually makes a lot more sense than the silly notion that we can peel the Taliban away from al-Qaeda or that the Taliban are really moderates interested in power sharing. If the White House pursues this idea, they will find a lot more success in working with Congress than in attempting to either partner with or ignore radical terrorists in the hope that they use that encouragement to lay down their weapons.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
I just heard that Pakistan is on the offense.
AnninCA on October 12, 2009 at 2:21 PM
Was this the good Taliban or the bad Taliban?
rob verdi on October 12, 2009 at 2:25 PM
by the way, left wing talking points scoffed at the US paying people in Iraq, lets see how they talk about this one when the One is doing it.
rob verdi on October 12, 2009 at 2:27 PM
I absolutely feel like the adage about the American. The Taliban is disgusting, absolutely vermin.
But I’m war-weary, too.
AnninCA on October 12, 2009 at 2:27 PM
C’mon…it’s the Taliban not the Taliban-Taliban.
Caper29 on October 12, 2009 at 2:28 PM
That’s not a bad strategy, actually.
Only problem is, when the money runs out, will their loyalty remain with the US, or…… ?
UltimateBob on October 12, 2009 at 2:28 PM
The good news is that the people in Afghanistan do not have access to the internet, let alone read, so they will not know the money we are giving them will be worth a lot less in a few years.
WashJeff on October 12, 2009 at 2:28 PM
The Taliban is almost 100% Afghani Pashtuns (getting support from Pakistani Pashtuns across the border), so we do have to turn some of them to win. They make up 55-60% of Afghanistan.
It is not one monolithic block. And I sure as hell do not want the criminals who hung people in the soccer stadium and blew up giant ancient sculptures coming back–but it is not like they ever really left. No I do not trust the Obama Administration to do this right, but I do have some trust that the military and CIA on the ground see some openings that can be exploited.
Mr. Joe on October 12, 2009 at 2:29 PM
We’d better pay them in euros cause the dollar is worth less.
hip shot on October 12, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Finance the buyout with forfeiture fines from drug possession in this country. Create a system of fines based on net worth. Why are Americans allowed to engage in “harmless” drug use when much of the supply chain is committing violence against innocents around the world and are soldiers. Create a lucrative whisteblower system. I’d love to see our beloved Hollywood set coughing up some serious dough on these kinds of fines.
Time to make drug use absolutely un-patriotic.
BuckeyeSam on October 12, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Wash Jeff, you beat me to it.
The good news is that the people in Afghanistan do not have access to the internet, let alone read, so they will not know the money we are giving them will be worth a lot less in a few years.
WashJeff on October 12, 2009 at 2:28 PM
hip shot on October 12, 2009 at 2:32 PM
You win the Internet.
Proud Rino on October 12, 2009 at 2:32 PM
I definitely am war-weary. But I must say, Diane Feinstein’s remarks this week gave me a bit of oomph*.
She obviously says, Stay the Course.
If we abandon this now, we lose Pakistan. I get that.
I can’t stand the constant wars.
I really do hate Bush in a way. Iraq was a complete squander of will and money.
But whatever, it’s done and a mistake and over.
AnninCA on October 12, 2009 at 2:33 PM
I suppose it would be in bad taste to mention that they are all Muslims following Islam.
BL@KBIRD on October 12, 2009 at 2:33 PM
I am surprised that I actually agree with AnninCA – a couple of weeks ago I decided I was war weary too. Maybe it is the increase in soldier deaths recently. Maybe it is because I don’t trust this CinC to do what is best for our troops thereby making their deaths pointless….yea that’s probably it.
HawaiiLwyr on October 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Is Al Gore OK with that?
WashJeff on October 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Well, you need to work out an incentives system, and some means of verification, so that they don’t double dip.
Nothing worse than having people on the dole shooting at you.
Count to 10 on October 12, 2009 at 2:37 PM
That’s why when you go to war you go to win, Ann.
Perhaps you could impress that fact on the Donks who signed up for the war because it was politically expedient eight years ago but found it wasn’t so politically expedient several years later and have been intent on kneecapping the military (General Betray-Us, etc) ever since the last mid-terms.
Bruno Strozek on October 12, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Common problem on the south side of Chicago too.
WashJeff on October 12, 2009 at 2:39 PM
I kind of doubt they would hold onto it longer than it takes to buy dinner.
Count to 10 on October 12, 2009 at 2:39 PM
am surprised that I actually agree with AnninCA – a couple of weeks ago I decided I was war weary too. Maybe it is the increase in soldier deaths recently. Maybe it is because I don’t trust this CinC to do what is best for our troops thereby making their deaths pointless….yea that’s probably it.
HawaiiLwyr on October 12, 2009 at 2:35 PM
AnninCA on October 12, 2009 at 2:39 PM
TALIBAN MODERATE: Only cuts off half your head.
Dr. Charles G. Waugh on October 12, 2009 at 2:40 PM
I thought we were calling them homicide bombers, which is exactly what they are. Who cares if they commit suicide, we are that they’re mass murderers.
scalleywag on October 12, 2009 at 2:41 PM
Well, I knew the minute I woke up to 9/11 that we were going to war.
Bush was simply the medium.
Americans wanted revenge.
But revenge poops out.
AnninCA on October 12, 2009 at 2:41 PM
The taliban’s moto is the same as al-qaeda; Let’s blow someone up.
Johan Klaus on October 12, 2009 at 2:42 PM
Personal experience?
Count to 10 on October 12, 2009 at 2:43 PM
What the heck do you buy in Afghanistan anyway, besides more weapons? Better mud for your hut? More sheep? Shaving equipment?
WashJeff on October 12, 2009 at 2:44 PM
For every horrible Taliban-instigated situation, there are equally horrible events happening in at least every continent on earth.
It’s simply overwhelming to try to save everyone.
The US has to step away from this role. I think we do have to go back to looking for situations that are truly genocide.
I realize this is impossible. The Taliban destroys women. There is no doubt.
But it’s not a lot different from people destroying women at birth, or African practices where they are dying from AIDS.
We simply cannot solve it all.
AnninCA on October 12, 2009 at 2:45 PM
The dem’s Viet Nam syndrome.
Johan Klaus on October 12, 2009 at 2:46 PM
We did have one of our company employees get hold up at gunpoint about 6 months ago. A couple of kids cased another business location for a robbery. Luckily for us, and unlucky for another, they robbed and shot (I think he survived) a business in the same line of work 1.5 miles from us.
WashJeff on October 12, 2009 at 2:47 PM
Munchkins: maximizing their hedonism in this life, while canceling the disadvantages of “damned to hell” with “jihad: free ticket to heaven”.
Gamers I really would rather not play with.
Count to 10 on October 12, 2009 at 2:47 PM
The buyouts never work. Eventually that funding is with held and all those people with guns get hungry and upset. Then they start blowing stuff up. It’s a vicious cycle.
The Calibur on October 12, 2009 at 2:48 PM
We don’t win by destroying the Taliban. We don’t win by body count. We don’t win by the number of successful military raids or attacks, we win when the [Afghan] people decide we win.
- General McChrystal (in London last week)
Pre-occupied with protection of our own forces, we have operated in a manner that distances us — physically and psychologically — from the people we seek to protect.
- General McChrystal (from his COMISAF assessment of the war in Afghanistan)
I would absolutely be comfortable with fighters and lower-level commanders [of the Taliban] making the decision to reintegrate into the Afghan political process under the Afghan constitution.
- General McChrystal (August 11, 2009)
MB4 on October 12, 2009 at 2:49 PM
Quoted from the Captain: “However, that success in Iraq did not come by implementing this policy alone.”
And that’s the key. Winning in Iraq required a flexible and long term strategy combining many different elements. In Afghanistan, even more so. Yet President Obama has shown no evidence of wanting to do anything other than cafeteria style cherry picking to please this or that constituency, never committing to a broad overall strategy. Worse, the President never has shown any evidence of understanding how the various tactics are connected and dependent on each other.
It’s the same strategic mistake as the President’s economic and tax policies. He assumes one can change one thing without any effect on anything else. Thanks, 53%, for this wonderful “smart power.”
jwolf on October 12, 2009 at 2:49 PM
The main duty of the government is to protect the country. We were attacked and we are at war. You fight a war to win.
Johan Klaus on October 12, 2009 at 2:51 PM
Hmmm. Without the threat of massive retaliation, you might be worse of than Afghanistan is. Or was. I get the feeling that someone might like to use Chicago as a model.
Count to 10 on October 12, 2009 at 2:51 PM
Tell that to the Palestinians
CMonster on October 12, 2009 at 2:52 PM
They don’t blow stuff up because they are hungry or angry.
They blow stuff up because that’s what they have been told they are supposed to do.
Count to 10 on October 12, 2009 at 2:54 PM
If that were true, we would not have won in Germany and Japan.
Johan Klaus on October 12, 2009 at 2:54 PM
I am sure any retaliation would be met with, at best, our building being wrecked during teh night. We installed surveillance systems last week to at least let would be bad guys know that we are watching and recording you.
At least when I visit these locations, I go home to a safe suburb at night. Not so for men and women in Afghanistan.
WashJeff on October 12, 2009 at 2:56 PM
AnninCA on October 12, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Ann, there is a critical difference between the Taliban and most other groups of thugs and murderers around the globe, of which there are many, just as you wrote. The distinctive and very dangerous feature of the Taliban is that they specifically intend to spread their murders as widely as possible. By their own design, they are a global problem, not a local one. It’s the same distinction as that between Idi Amin and Saddam Hussein. Most world murderers are not our problem, true. But a small number of them really are. I submit that that was the case with Saddam Hussein. I further claim that the Taliban, at least their leadership, also fits into this category.
jwolf on October 12, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Yeah that’s right. They’re all just a bunch of idiots. If only there were enough McDonalds and Walmarts to hire them all, they would have something better to do.
The Calibur on October 12, 2009 at 3:02 PM
Go lie down until the feeling passes.
Aviator on October 12, 2009 at 3:02 PM
Fortunately McChrystal was not in charge back then.
MB4 on October 12, 2009 at 3:02 PM
No, we won both of those when our military campaign convinced the people of the respective countries that we had won.
Count to 10 on October 12, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Like I said, because you lack the kind of “bomb their base and kill them all” retaliation available in Afghanistan, you might be worse off.
Count to 10 on October 12, 2009 at 3:05 PM
You mean the people who are fighting on a postage-stamp nation, crowded in like sardines with their mortal enemy’s homeland just a rocket’s launch away? With living standards that we would consider squalid?!
No **** they haven’t ‘pooped out’. Having almost nothing left to lose is serious motivation.
Meanwhile…in the US…
We have the world’s best living standards and our enemy’s homeland is halfway ’round the frakking planet.
Quite simply, we aren’t going to be able to muster WW2-type motivation until the American public faces similar conditions. Short of that there is just no way we can keep the war machine rolling as it is, those with the will are too few and too exhausted.
Dark-Star on October 12, 2009 at 3:08 PM
There are two types of Taliban:
1. Taliban-Bad
and
2. Taliban-Obama (the liberal, moderate Taliban that Obama can work with).
albill on October 12, 2009 at 3:09 PM
No, then they would just blow up their places of work. Being “invaded” (what they call having the populace freed from them) is an opportunity to (some of) these guys. I mean, they are hardly likely to get their ticket to heaven if there are no infidels around to die fighting.
Count to 10 on October 12, 2009 at 3:10 PM
lol Spoken like a true conservative. Hey let us come into your country and show you some freedom. How’s that Karzai government working out for you guys? Self-determination and sovereignty? No that’s an America thing not an Afghanistan thing.
The Calibur on October 12, 2009 at 3:14 PM
This moderate Taliban idea is goofy…like saying dry water. Cold fire. It is a contradiction of terms. Taliban = Jihad and Sharia law. A moderate Taliban might shoot you with a 9MM rather than a .44.
swede7 on October 12, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Is there any other agricultural or other means that they can survive. I doubt that can be it. Show them some kind of self reliant way out so they don’t fear harvest.
tomas on October 12, 2009 at 3:17 PM
***
The only good Taliban is a dead Taliban. Ditto for Al Quaida. Cue the B-52′s with the GPS smart bombs.
***
John Bibb
***
rocketman on October 12, 2009 at 3:17 PM
One of the things that killed AQ in Iraq was the way they were acting in Sunni areas. Iraq is a modern arab state where the people enjoyed modern lifestyle. AQ was invited in to battle American forces and ended up trying to enforce strict Islamic Law in Sunni areas. That really opened up Sunni eyes and along with overtures from American leadership and our showing them we would fight Shiites, Sunni leaders turned on AQ. The problem with Afghanistan is the people outside the cities don’t know or care about a more modern lifestyle, they have lived under taliban rule and came to accept strict Islamic rule.
Howcome on October 12, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Someone alert China, that we’re gonna need more cash. And with the help of ACORN, the taliban will be a force to be reckoned with, when they’re putting Obama in office for another 4 years.
capejasmine on October 12, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Ha…The founder of the Taliban (or Taleban) Omar the terrible, says that:“All Taleban are moderates”
He also mentions as an aside- the “destruction of America.”
This news and interview is from 2001, before he heard of Obama, wonder what he has to say about it now?
Interesting interview, read it.
Papa Ray on October 12, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Whew! Thanks for clarifying. For a moment there I had a fleeting thought that you might have put those quotes up as an endorsement of McChrystal. I managed to argue myself out of that notion though.
Oldnuke on October 12, 2009 at 3:21 PM
All we have to do is back off and let the talibanannas stick burkas on the women and whatever else those animals do. I think that’s what is confusing zerobama, he doesn’t see any problem with doing any of that.
Rights? What rights, these people are barely human anyway, they aren’t black enough to warrant consideration for human rights, and they can’t vote democrat here, right Barry?
Ole’ Barry just doesn’t see what the fuss is over. I mean really, why should we be over there blowing stuff up and killing these animals when all we have to do is clean up a mess here and there when they blow themselves up in our cities? I mean gosh, they don’t even have any oil, and Barry does SO enjoy the coke they produce. This whole situation just makes him itch.
Spiritk9 on October 12, 2009 at 3:21 PM
I doubt many of them would bear the humiliation of working long hours for a pittance, while dealing with idiots, the clueless and Napoleon-complexes from co’work’ers and customers alike.
Dark-Star on October 12, 2009 at 3:22 PM
worth less or worthless?
Taliban or Tall-ee-bon/
Pinnochio deserves a Nobel prize for Language or something.
Did you go to the Nissan Heisman 2009 website and vote for Pinnochio for the Heisman yet? You can get free stuff for doing not so much just like him!
dhunter on October 12, 2009 at 3:27 PM
Congratulations, you have succumbed to the fallacy beloved of the left that if we cannot attain perfection, we should do nothing. For evil to prosper, it is only necessary that good men do nothing, and you sound like you are ready to do your part.
And another thing: how do you know what we can and can’t do? In the brief instant after 9-11 when the Dems found it politically convenient to behave like Americans, we accomplished much. But ever since they woke up one morning and realized there was political hay to be made out of pandering to war-weariness and jumped ship, they have been very effective if thwarting our efforts by encouraging our enemies and friends to believe we are faint-hearted.
Don’t you ever wonder how much evil we could overcome if we didn’t have to also defeat our most skillful and powerful enemy, the Democrats and the media?
As a number of commenters have noted, we have to fight to win hard and fast, because at the first hint of war-weariness, the Democrats will be trying to curry votes with cries to surrender. Think Republicans are no different? Think again – they are supporting a White House option to increase out troop levels, even though there is a Dem occupying it. Republicans put America first, while Dems put Dems first – it’s just that simple.
drunyan8315 on October 12, 2009 at 3:30 PM
Inability to solve everything is lefty propaganda???
Okaaay…
Dark-Star on October 12, 2009 at 3:39 PM
This war is now older than the Civil War. People are war-weary, losing their jobs, losing their homes, losing everything.
It’s simply too much.
AnninCA on October 12, 2009 at 3:41 PM
I have no doubt that we’re coming out of a “gilded age.” People really don’t need Hummers or BMW’s to have a good life.
It’s been obviously absurd.
But….you can’t go from 100 to 10 without adjustment.
AnninCA on October 12, 2009 at 3:42 PM
A couple of questions AnninCA:
1. Are you serving in the Middle East right now?
2. Is a close friend or a family member serving in the Middle East right now?
3. Do you create aid packages, organize relief efforts, devote your free time, or do anything substantial to help the soldiers over there?
If the answer to all of those questions is “no”, then what the h*** are you whining about?
For the 95% of the populace, the only commitment they had to make was to not be total d***s about it.
Democrats failed that test in spades.
PackerBronco on October 12, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Chavez says Obama did “nothing” to deserve Nobel
Damn, the DNC is right about that “terrorist” thing
J_Crater on October 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM
I remember us being in another situation a short time ago where all we had to do to keep the peace was to keep sending money to a foreign country in which we had lost a lot of soldiers. How did that turn out again? Oh yeah, a Democratic Congress stopped sending the money, the whole thing collapsed, there was a bloodbath, and the US looked weak, which emboldened every two-bit terrorist from Beirut to Tehran.
Kafir on October 12, 2009 at 3:47 PM
I have no doubt that we’re coming out of a “gilded age.” People really don’t need Hummers or BMW’s to have a good life.
AnninCA on October 12, 2009 at 3:42 PM
WTH does that have to do with anything? If I WANT a Hummer or BMW, I can damned sure have one. Wrong country, Ann. No we don’t need to have one to have a “good life,” but it sure beats the alternative. Good Lord. Do you sit around singing kum-by-yah much?
mimi1220 on October 12, 2009 at 3:53 PM
Has anyone mused over the possibility that Obama may be using the troop deployment as leverage in talks with Iran?
I doubt it would work, and I doubt Obama would’ve thought of such a thing, but it would be a plausible explanation for his inaction in the face of clear advice from his commanders in-theater.
hawksruleva on October 12, 2009 at 3:58 PM
It’s a probably more of a concern than a direct negotiation.
The Calibur on October 12, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Will you still be over it when the folks who came over here on Sept. 11 come back? You’re not having to do the work, you’re not even having to see that many press reports about it. So instead of telling the folks who want to win to stop trying, why not just ignore us?
When you say “past”, you mean it in a “Americans were killed and the Taliban blew up a Pakistani marketplace this weekend” sort of way, right?
hawksruleva on October 12, 2009 at 4:01 PM
I have no faith that Obama would be capable of connecting separate threads of thought in such a way. And it would be a misreading of the situation to withold the troops in hopes of influencing Iran. But at least it would seem like the President had a reason for delaying his decision.
Of course, he’s more likely to be leveraging our commitment against the health care debate than Iran, which is sad.
hawksruleva on October 12, 2009 at 4:04 PM
I don’t want revenge.I want peace and justice – but on my terms. It’s called victory.
Bruno Strozek on October 12, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Don’t underestimate him. His crew is just as good at looting the treasury as the last few administrations have been.
The Calibur on October 12, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Thats’ right, he cannot afford to lose one vote from a disgruntled Dem on the HealthScare takeover so he will not announce his surrender in Afghanistan in whatever form that takes until something happens on his HealthScare power grab!
i bet within days of a healthscare vote he announces just enough support for Afghanistan to get a few hundred more of our soldiers killed but not enough to protect them or win!
dhunter on October 12, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Maybe the Russians would jump at the chance to make a few million bucks and send 40,000 of theirs into Afghanistan rather like the Hessians serving with the British during the American Revolution.
That way Dear Leader can keep those boots on the ground where they’re most needed…in NORTHCOM.
Dr. ZhivBlago on October 12, 2009 at 4:19 PM
I’m pretty sure the Russians have learned their lesson from last time. Too bad we haven’t learned it yet.
The Calibur on October 12, 2009 at 4:21 PM
Like I said before, Bin Laden was right when he said Arabs (and he meant all peoples of the Middle East) will follow the strong horse. In more basic terms we offered the people of Iraq the classic Colombian drug dealer choice- “the silver or the lead.” It didn’t take long for the people in Iraq to figure out one gets you paid and alive, the other poor and dead.
“The strong horse.”
We will need to do the same thing in Afghanistan. They really don’t get nor want democracy as a way of life. It is hard to keep one going when you are surrounded by tribes living in the ninth century, and happy to be there.
archer52 on October 12, 2009 at 4:23 PM
yeah, right
I so don’t even believe that for a heartbeat.
Unless you are so naive as to think we can straighten out every country.
AnninCA on October 12, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Unless you are so naive as to think we can straighten out every country.
AnninCA on October 12, 2009 at 4:24 PM
You don’t seem to be getting the point here. Nobody is trying to “straighten out every country.” We are in Afghanistan because the clique which ruled Afghanistan at the time (i.e. the Taliban) directly sponsored an attack against the US. We stay until we may confidently conclude that the Taliban either no longer exists or no longer will attack us. Neither condition holds at the moment.
jwolf on October 12, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Wow. Can you please locate one place on the map and sit there for two minutes, Ann? You admire a Dhimmicrat Senator for staying the course, but hate Bush because he stayed the course till Victory. Perhaps he actually knew something about changing Islam that you don’t then?
You claim the war was about revenge. You think revenge will poop out eventually. Not if your daughter was slaughtered by Muslims for no reason. Not if your son died, shot in the back, by a radical Muslim who he was training to be a better soldier for the country of Iraq. Not if your kids die in a homicide bombing because some radical Islamist decides to kill infidels to sow terror and make us leave Afghanistan because they think they can be tougher and badder than we are. That they are somehow stronger than US soldiers.
You think just because they were born in Afghanistan or Iraq and lived in poverty, they are justified in attacking those around them to get their fair share of the pie, instead of learning to make more pies and leave their neighbors alone.
Americans only fight when provoked. Americans have no desire for empire, but for Justice. They want everyone to play nice, but recognize that only a strong hand and a will to use it stops evil or misguided thugs who rob their neighbors, kill their fellow man, and rape and behead at Allah’s will.
Tell me again how getting out of Iraq is going to be horribly painful? 13 American soldiers have been killed by hostile fire in the last 3 months. 28 in the last 5 months. The trend is definitely down. The pain is over. Iraq is peaceful by comparison with Detroit, Washington, DC, New York City, Los Angeles, Houston, Miami, and Chicago. More people are killed by hostile acts in those cities each than all of the Americans killed in Iraq over the same period. The War in Iraq is OVER. The US and Iraqi Armed Forces have won. The insurgents have lost totally and completely. Al Qaida has completely lost their influence in an entire country and most of Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and even much of Syria because we invaded Iraq. That would not have happened, and they would have grown exponentially in numbers and sophistication without the invasion of Iraq. They had many more havens for refuge than they do today.
Whether Iraq had WMD or not, the invasion was a masterful piece of strategy, for you cannot win a war unless you go on offense where the enemy is and weaken him until he is done, and defeat them in detail. You may argue that there were no WMD, and the good will of our allies was squandered by Iraq, but you cannot deny that there were WMD capabilities in BioWeapons and Chemical Weapons precursors in Iraq, and over 500 chemical munitions were found by the Inspection teams over the last 7 years. Saddam maintained some capabilities hidden, which we found, but no formal programs. That was not a lie. It may have been a mistake of degree, but not a lie. And fair weather friends have never helped us unless their lives were also at stake. They didn’t think they were because your comrades downplayed any threat by radical Islam, and continue to do so till this day.
You must go on offense to win. Al Qaeda was run out of Afghanistan and fled to Pakistan and Iraq and anywhere else they had support for them by Muslims, which was plentiful. Now they have been discredited, isolated, and are slowly being destroyed as we find the opportunities to get at them. We are winning and you and your comrades want to quit because you are tired? Too damn bad.
Get out of the way then. Let better Men and Women than you fulfill the mission and end the war and thus end the bloodshed. If you don’t think we are changing Islam into something which will moderate itself or be destroyed, then you know nothing of history. These thugs are not ten feet tall and bulletproof. They are thugs who know no other way to get what they want. When confronted by braver Men, they run and hide under a woman’s burka and shoot their own people in the back. They are Cowards of the worst sort. And the only way to end the violence and death is through final and total Victory over their ideology. Your mistake is in thinking that Islam cannot be changed by outside influence. If enough adherents of a movement die in a lost cause, every movement in history can be, and has been, defeated. The only thing in our way is whiners like you who want to stop because you are tired.
Stop dragging our Men and Women down and they would have won this already. It is your complaints about their fighting that wears them out. Our enemies would have lost heart and quit without your support. Their co-religionists would have seen their inevitable extinction and stopped them by now. But because you and your weariness give them such hope, they keep fighting. Whether you feel like it or not, you and your comrades are a MAJOR part of the problem.
So just stop it already. Be quiet and let us do our jobs. When it is over, the lives we will have saved…… are yours and ours and theirs. Just stop the whining already.
Subsunk
Subsunk on October 12, 2009 at 4:42 PM
I leave you with two quotes from the Man who saved the Free World at one time:
- Sir Winston Churchill, winner of the 1953 Nobel Prize for Literature, Prime Minister of Great Britain during World War II(1940-1945), and again in 1951-1955, Journalist, Soldier, Statesman, Gentleman, KG, OM, CH, TD, FRS, PC.
Subsunk on October 12, 2009 at 4:51 PM
No problem at all, just simply pay the Afghani’s to “like” us more than the Taliban. Yup, good long-term results. Unless I’m dead wrong, freedom is not bought at the money store. You either want it….or not. If not, we and our troops are wasting precious blood.
Ray-500 on October 12, 2009 at 5:00 PM
If they won’t make peace, we will send in SEIU. If they still don’t make peace we will send in ACORN.
shaken on October 12, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Whoopi G: “I know it wasn’t a bombing-bombing. I think it was something else, but I don’t believe it was bombing-bombing.”
starboardhelm on October 12, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Well Ann aren’t we all. I am too, but that does not change my understanding about what happens to me, my family and my country if we do not defend ourselves with valor and vigor. Personally I think if the news media had been fair; showing the good as well as the bad, instead of just the worst of the bad and creating a picture of failure, and we went in there to get the job done rather than worry about bad press because we had some causalites, not only would it have been over with quickly, with far fewer lives lost, but the current issue of Afghanistan would not be the problem that it is today. We did not do that and so we have the results of today and must go on from there. Maybe we can see that you just can not go in and shoot the ememy, especially in Afghanistan. You have to have muscle on the ground which is what they understand, and the support of the people who ultimately decide if the Taliban win or lose. In their world it comes down to who is most likely to win and be on that side so that worse things do not happen to them. They will be on which ever side Obama is on, and at the moment he is not looking very supportive of our side.
Franklyn on October 12, 2009 at 5:56 PM
Not every country, Ann, just the one(s) that f*** with us, either directly or through proxies.
Bruno Strozek on October 12, 2009 at 6:04 PM
Yeah, and Obama is the toothfairy. The Taliban come in for ‘powersharing’ you can bet that within 2 years, there will be no one alive to share power with. How convenient.
GarandFan on October 12, 2009 at 6:21 PM
If Bush hadn’t started The Great Lie about Islam, the one calling it a “Religion of Peace”, right after 9/11, we might have a nation mobilized intelligently against militant Imperialistic Islam.
Which is the real Islam, not the “moderate” pretend Islam that displays superficial attributes of “modernity” which some Muslims adopt when they present a tactically-false face to the West.
A mask-move done with cunning calculation in order to sucker the stupid, unclean infidel dogs into comatose complacency so that the rest of the Mohammedan Ummah can more easily infiltrate, undermine and demoralize the non-Muslim world.
And perform the hydra-headed Stealth Jihad (i.e.: legal harassment and their attendant monetary ‘bleedings’ of the state through the courts, Fifth Column campaigns, from literal sabotage =like spraying feces on food in stores as was documented in Britain- to shamelessly transparent propaganda lies -”What honor killings?!”- which have been swallowed almost unquestioningly by the studiously mindlessly p.c./multiculti media, academia, political whores, and the Hollywood moronocracy, ~et al).
Fighting against the true enemy- an intolerant theocratic tyranny based in Terror- fundamental Islam has been rendered almost impossible thanks to our brainless politicos and their fatalistically-incurious imbecile enablers in the Press.
The Taliban are merely a minor tentacle of the Kraken of the Koran.
Until someone in the U.S. political class has the balls and the brains to finally study the tenets of Mohammadism first hand, and its 1400 expansionistic movement rife with genocides and monstrosities and cruelties and scorched=-earth depredations… which are all Koranically ordained and sanctified and rewarded with Paradise for the “holy” maniacs who “kill for Allah”(unlike Christianity’s historical failings and Inquisitions, that went against the esentially tolerant and peace-loving message of Christ), we are completely hamstrung.
If you fail to know and define and clearly fight your enemy, on-the-march-again Imperialistic Islam, you cede such an advantage to them that you can end up defeated …by your own brainless derelection of duty and resulting insane ROE.
So far we are only battling our own “cultural” self-delusion, not our actual enemy.
Which is their great weapon.
profitsbeard on October 12, 2009 at 6:25 PM
Perhaps in your world.
katy the mean old lady on October 12, 2009 at 7:25 PM
Heres,History Channels,Deadliest Sniper in Afghanistan(1/5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG7QwDBZM2k&feature=related
canopfor on October 12, 2009 at 7:57 PM
So far we are only battling our own “cultural” self-delusion, not our actual enemy.
Which is their great weapon.
profitsbeard on October 12, 2009 at 6:25 PM
profitsbeard: So true,nailed and bingo PB:)
And besides killing infidels,another crazy thing,is that for
thousands of years,the “Muslims” slaughtered each other,in
who is more worthy of Allah,or who is more of a believer!
Those muslims have painted other muslims of being less believers,so they get busy and wipe out those groups,and
it repeats ad-nausem,over and over!
If my facts are correct!!:)
canopfor on October 12, 2009 at 8:05 PM
Correct.
Convert
Dhimmi
Death
The only three ways of islam.
Mojave Mark on October 12, 2009 at 8:08 PM
The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property – either as a child, a wife, or a concubine – must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
- Winston Churchill
Here was the new Koran of faith and war: turgid, verbose, shapeless, but pregnant with its message.
- Winston Churchill (equating Adolf Hiler’s “Mein Kampf” and the Koran in his book the “The Gathering Storm”)
MB4 on October 12, 2009 at 8:17 PM
This was when the Nobel Prize meant something…
lovingmyUSA on October 12, 2009 at 9:55 PM
The negative talk and rhetoric against the Taliban reminds me of the kind of language I heard in San Francisco in the 1970s.
HAnthonyWayne on October 12, 2009 at 10:18 PM
We were already at war when you woke up to 9/11.
unclesmrgol on October 13, 2009 at 1:16 AM
War weary, are you? I am more weary of the sniveling than from my two previous deployments. Nobody asked you to fight. How about not obstructing those of us who do?
Bah.
LTC John on October 13, 2009 at 8:30 AM
War weary, are you? I am more weary of the sniveling than from my two previous deployments. Nobody asked you to fight. How about not obstructing those of us who do?
Bah.
LTC John on October 13, 2009
Shame on you, LTC John. You’re standing in the way of her surrender.
SKYFOX on October 13, 2009 at 8:45 AM